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Summary: Chivalry is dead and I killed it.

First I must say I'm from a shitty, stuck between traditional and modern third world country, a dollar is x3.4 more valuable here and we are all students on daddy bux, restaurant choice and invitation wasn't mine either so none were my guest.

We went out, 2 males and 3 females to a restaurant, none of us have interest in each other we were friends since the start of the college this year and we participated summer school, that meal together was a celebration of the successful year. When the addition came I put what I ate plus 2 dollars as asking for change would be weird and I saw other dude started to nod and make weird eyes to me implying I should pay more as he was putting half of the total bill while girls weren't even budging. After some awkward silence he said something along the lines "we gentlemen aren't going to let the ladies pay are we?". I said its 2016, woman are equals to us and should be independent. One of the "ladies" started to cry telling she doesn't have that much money, I said you should've have said it first so we would choose a more suitable place but now there isn't much I can do. The other two went in pride mode and paid whats left after dude's %50 and my own share which was around %20 and still had the nerve to say don't worry we'll cover you while the dude was the one covering for her. I drove them home in total silence and since 2 days there are zero messages on our group chat where normally there was shit ton of messages daily.

TL;DR: I'm the selfish prick of my friend group. AMA!

[–]psyflux 58 points59 points  (3 children)

none of us have interest in each other

Not true because:

he was putting half of the total bill

[–]JourneymanTRP 6 points7 points  (2 children)

Not true because there are 3 guys and 3 girls. That's 9 unique combinations and out of 9 male-female 'friendships', probably about 8 of them on average include someone wanting to fuck someone else.

[–]alpha_n3rd 6 points7 points  (0 children)

it was even better than that 3 girls and 2 guys. No interest? Fuck that REAL friends would have a five-way.

[–]PantsonFire1234 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I get what he's saying/thinking. I once hung out at school with about 4 girls who were in my group. Me being the only guy in the class and all. From my point of view these girls weren't really my type and fucking them would be awkward.

But I was told numerous times afterward that several of them had a crush on me. Not to brag, being the only guy in a group of women makes it ridiculous easy. Anyone could succeed in such an environment.

To me, it just never occurred that our 'hanging outs' were with sexual intention. I just viewed it as school friends maintenance.

[–]Warrior_For_Hire 80 points81 points  (3 children)

Man what a shitty thing to do, not you but the girls. I would bet that she had the money but thought she was entitled to a free meal.

[–]verily_rp 34 points35 points  (1 child)

^ pretty much this. I bet you she would have had money to pay for Brad Pitt at your table. The truth of the fact is she's a gold digger. A manipulative hoe who victimized herself so she could have someone else pay for her and not be shamed for it. OP, you did good in calling out her bad behavior as you did earlier. You should keep that frame up and strong.

[–]x3oo 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Well i could imagine that it's custom in his country and so it might have been a reasonable thing to assume from the women.

[–]inspiron3000 16 points17 points  (0 children)

"we gentlemen aren't going to let the ladies pay are we?"

Eh, you're not members of the landed gentry.
Are you in listed in Burke's?

If they were gentlemen they wouldn't so much as sniffed at the bill. It would be change to them.

Pretentious betas are not your friends.

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (1 child)

lol good job to you for standing your ground man

You did nothing wrong, but you do have shitty and entitled friends

[–]awalt_cupcake 2 points3 points  (0 children)

shitty and entitled friends

basically everyone you meet

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (9 children)

Wtf?! Did she really cry or are you exaggerating? It's seems like the most meaningless, most impulsive thing she could do. A simple explanation followed by borrowing some money would suffice I guess.

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (6 children)

Goofy, clueless puppy eyes and a long explanation how she didn't think it would cost that much. Maybe I misinterpreted it as I'm taking the red pill since 4 months and actually in anger phase.

[–]RichieFinn 12 points13 points  (1 child)

didnt think it would cost that much? does the menu not have prices beside the courses in big fucking numbers!

[–]Casanova-Quinn 8 points9 points  (0 children)

It's not that she couldn't see the prices, it's that she was expecting a free meal.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

So...she didn't cry

[–]yumyumgivemesome 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Classic manipulative behavior by a princess who is accustomed to getting her way every time.

[–]scramtek 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Manipulative bitch. She's not a child.
She ordered and ate, fully expecting someone else to pay for her. Because why? What makes her so fucking special? I'd stay as far away as possible from her (and her white knight) as possible. Toxic people.

[–]PantsonFire1234 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Women can cry on cue. They learned this from childhood. Easy manipulation tactic to get what she wants and absolve herself from guilt. Playing the victim, typical cunt this one.

[–]TRP VanguardHumanSockPuppet 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Well done. You are on the way to earning your full Shitlord Membership Card.

Next milestone: tell a bitch to pay for you, and she pays.

[–]RPShitlord 7 points8 points  (1 child)

That's why you don't do group dates with women. Next time carry a limited amount of cash. "I didn't expect to be paying for anybody else."

[–]scramtek 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Why worry about how much cash you're carrying? Irrelevant.
The point is that, unless stated beforehand, no one gets free food. Or free anything. No need to make excuses for why you're not paying for other people's expenses. Making an excuse just further enables their delusion. And they would think you as too poor to pay for them. Which isn't the why you're not paying.

[–]TheRedStoic 1 point2 points  (0 children)

She probably had the cash. I've actually noticed plenty of girls do these days, because as our men begin waking up the ditch strategy (duck from the bathroom) becomes more common.

A few of the worst still don't, but most of them have plenty of dosh, you did right.

[–]PantsonFire1234 1 point2 points  (0 children)

"we gentlemen aren't going to let the ladies pay are we?"

Fucking hell. That's the moment I would gone up and left without saying a word. Then again, I wouldn't socialize with weak cucks like that.

[–]brooklynisburnin 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Now I'm the asshole of my "friend" circle.

Reframe, you friend circle is full of bitches. Time for a purge.

[–]AlfredApple 7 points8 points  (20 children)

Tough break mate.

Whilst you were in the right, sometimes you need to cop one on the chin for the bigger picture. It's all well and good for us on TRP to tell people that the way society is currently functioning is wrong but that's just not how it works in practice sometimes.

Imagine you are at a friend's place and they ask you to say grace before a formal meal and you're an atheist. Is it worth making a big deal in front of the parents or do you just bow your head and say thanks for the food and company, amen.

Your situation meant you got burnt financially but paying would have solved the situation at hand. Then in the future you know that with this particular group of friends, you need to clarify bill splitting before the restaurant choice.

Yes, what I am saying is probably not popular with die hard TRPers but life isn't straight forward and social circles are important.

One of the "ladies" started to cry telling she doesn't have that much money, I said you should've have said it first so we would choose a more suitable place but now there isn't much I can do.

One of the "ladies" started to cry telling she doesn't have that much money, I said you should've have said it first so we would choose a more suitable place. We'll cover it this time but you girls can't be relying on us just because we are rich, successful men! (jokingly)

[–]beginner_ 15 points16 points  (0 children)

social circles are important.

true but not shitty ones. It goes both ways. Fair enough she tried getting a free meal and fair enough the other guy wanted to pay for the females, his decision. But then crying is shitty behavior and the others shaming him as well. If you don't have the money tell it before you order so you could go to a different place or at least discuss the bill splitting beforehand.

[–][deleted] 3 points3 points

[permanently deleted]

[–]AlfredApple 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Was a stretch, the point I was trying to make was keeping your ideology/world view to yourself for the sake of not unnecessarily rocking the boat. We all hear, see or experience pussy passes everyday, sometimes it's not worth trying to right every wrong.

[–]0kool74 -3 points-2 points  (1 child)

for the sake of not unnecessarily rocking the boat

That's what TRP is ya moron......rocking the boat!

[–]Thewelshpill 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Rock the boat, don't tip the boat over Rock the boat, don't rock the boat baby

[–]Apexk9 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Or he can not take it on the chin realize people like that aren't worth his time and drop them as friends vs having to get into this every time.

First men don't need female friends nor do they need weak male friends so... If he payed he'd reinforce their behaviour .

[–]Gawernator 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah I have to question why he's spending all this time with platonic females? Out of all the women I know I would only consider a couple real "friends" and that's because they are intelligent women around my age that served with me for years in the military.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What are you talking about dude? It wasn't his invite/idea to go out, he held up correctly, they're all friends and the girls are (surprise surprise) being shitty friends. Even back before I discovered TRP when I'd go out with a mixed group and we all split the check no questions asked. What happened here is that his bro is trying to bang one of the girls, now if he had given a heads up in private to OP all the awkwardness could have been avoided and discussed before.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (9 children)

Well yes I'm generally frugal which isn't a virtue and looks like I took it too far acting like a complete socially inert autistic. Do you think I should backpedal? If so what should I do in your opinion?

[–]PillDragon 16 points17 points  (1 child)


Guy 1 seems like a loser. You guys are all students, and anybody who says shit like what he said isn't worth sharing a meal with.

Whining girl probably seems like the type who actively encourages guys to pay for her. Don't even text her with a sorry. If you're in college you'd have to be really stupid to go out for a meal without the money on you.

Girl 2 and 3: The fact that they said they covered you means a) they lied or b) they genuinely believed they were paying not for themselves but for her. Either way, they're not worth your time.

These aren't relatives, childhood friends or family friends. You're better off without them.

[–]JourneymanTRP 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I also envisioned some kind of hyper suggestive voice raise when he said that to OP, the same way shitty untouchably superior parents scold their children.

[–]2comment 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Do you think I should backpedal?

No. If they don't talk to you again, they girls were just around for the free shit.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I'm generally frugal which isn't a virtue

Not true

These people expected you to give them something for no reason, and they were the ones being unreasonable

[–]CypherWolf21 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Wether or not what you did was right never backpedal. You have to stick to your decisions.

[–]AlfredApple 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Depends how much you want to keep being friends with these people. A simple olive branch could be something like "Hey guys, drinks at bar X tomorrow night? First round is on me!" would be an icebreaker and show that you are willing to chip in to make things ok again.

Consider PMing the girl that cried, "Hey didn't mean for you to get upset the other night. Are you ok?".

Contact at least someone and try to make amends. It's pretty obvious they are going to be talking about the situation and yourself so if you can get at least one of them on your side then you will be in a better position.

DO NOT APOLOGISE. You were not in the wrong.

[–]TheReformist94 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I still back you on this one.women are such cunts its worth you doing this even If its shit in the bigger picture

[–]MajorDomoBillyBojang 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hell no, I don't think you went far enough. You don't owe those women a dime. Now if you had actually asked one out on a date, the pay for her argument at least has some credibility (although it is still a bad idea). Don't give into pussy entitlement like that, quite literally the most beta thing you can do. And being in a social circle where you are the beta provider is fucking worthless 99% of the time. Your friends were the autistic ones expecting you to pay, that's completely out of the norm for friends to pay for friends like that. Their company is not that valuable.

[–]Gawernator 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What do you have to lose if you don't have these female "friends"? Who gives a fuck?

[–]MajorDomoBillyBojang -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Terrible advice from this White Knight...

[–]scramtek -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Terrible advice. Pray to God if you're an atheist just to please your peers?
Look, there's no need to make a stand about any issue that could ostracise you from your social circle. But there's a big difference between that and being submissive to the group's expectations to the point of discarding your own beliefs.
In a situation like this, just defer to the most religious person there and support their belief of the importance of prayer.
FYI, I'm not an atheist. But I have a backbone, and the ability to maintain my core without offending others.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

India? India

[–]Fnaut3187 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I was thinking the same thing. :) But, a dollar is much more than x3.4 in Indian Rupees.

[–]0kool74 1 point2 points  (1 child)

"we gentlemen aren't going to let the ladies pay are we?".

Soon as I read this I wanted to throat punch the dude and kick him in the nuts. Classic beta poon chasing behavior.

I said its 2016, woman are equals to us and should be independent


One of the "ladies" started to cry telling she doesn't have that much money

You know, one of these days it's gonna get to the point where people no longer give a shit about tears from women unless they're a) giving birth or b) on their death bed.

TL;DR: I'm the selfish prick of my friend group. AMA!

Sometimes a win is........a win! :-)

[–]MajorDomoBillyBojang -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Great point in a woman's tears. A fucking sideshow act usually.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm the selfish prick of my friend group. AMA!

Congratulations, want a pat on the back and internet points? Gods the circle jerk is strong in this thread

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No sympathy. You dont owe these people shit. If they don't want to be friends with you anymore, forget them. If they invite you to hang out, act like nothing happenend.

[–]LaRedPill 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sorry I didnt bring more money than this.

[–]ronsoness 0 points1 point  (0 children)

  1. being the asshole is never always bad. esp if "asshole" means assertive and not excessively offensive and crude.
  2. it's important to set precedents.
  3. learn how to divide up a bill properly and manage people. it's a pain in the ass, but it needs to be done in those cases. or just make separate bills next time. or just make a separate bill for yourself and let everyone else deal with the split.
  4. look for friends who are accountable w/ money. maybe someone was trying skimp you and hide behind crowd anonymity. and crying b/c she doesn't have much money? then don't go out to eat wtf! i have poor and rich friends -- all of them pay their share. or we treat each other. none of them skip the bill or try to shortchange people. that's how friends should be.
  5. take mental notes of who the cheapskates are and avoid accordingly. i say this as a recovering cheapskate myself, who at times, was a bit hard to bear.

[–]TheProspecter 0 points1 point  (0 children)

honestly how does one even respond to a beta financially shaming you like that? "we gentlemen aren't going to let the ladies pay" Legit question what is response to that type of bullshit?

[–]Nergaal 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you value their opinion at all, you could have budged in after being more delicate IMO. If you don't, don't worry about it.

Remember, in life you have to know when to go Beta, not just 100% alpha.

[–]Genericusername30939 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Female: you're not a dick, she should have paid her fair share. That's how equality works. I order within my means plus tip when I'm out with friends and when my husband pays for dinner when we are out I always say "thank you for dinner, it was lovely" because appreciation.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Have you considered buying everyone Hootie & The Blowfish concert tickets?

[–]shassamyak 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Good for you. You treated them as equals. The problem is you were not subtle. Your "group" must have met several times earlier and are on regular chatting,how this topic never came up? How did your "friends" never knew about your gender equality role assertions? Did you transformed overnight? Generally people share their feeling,thoughts,visions and things what they perceive as right or wrong among their social circles or "friends", did you ever presented them with what you thought about the division of power or what you perceive as equality. You are now an asshole because you definitely are one. Did it never occur to you once that a sudden news of your new found equality update should not be a breaking news? What did you guys ever talk about when met earlier?

I really dislike people who shit on their culture and traditions and believe the dollar country is more up to date. Every culture has its own problem and american culture is not separate from this situation. Your mentality towards your tradition defines that you are not confident of who you are and wants to ape and fit in. It is not healthy.

[–]nuesuh 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Chivalry has been dead for hundreds of years.

[–]p3n15h34d 0 points1 point  (0 children)

you need better friends

[–]redolas 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Welcome to the red pill. It's going to get worse. She's going to booty call you soon.

Well, probably not. But, you made it through. You only got this much drama because they knew you as a nice little beta. Once you get new friends who know you to be the "asshole", they will make a joke at most.

Still, I can't believe the cheek! A girlfriend, yes, she may make a scene. But a friend? That's way too much.

[–]FatGirlsInPartyHats 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Don't eat with a chick you haven't already fucked and do not wish to fuck again. Don't let it even become a topic of consideration.

Two things usually happen in this situation, realistically. You either a: pay for her food and drinks and hope to god she's gonna fuck b. dont pay for her shit and she gets pissed.

Example: I was on a 2nd date with this chick and she said she wanted pizza. I told her I wasn't hungry and she could order some if she wanted. She asked for my card. I told her no. She got very upset saying I don't take her needs seriously. I kicked her out of my house. She texted and apologized and stuff but it's a major red flag.

TL;DR: If she ain't fuckin' I ain't payin'.

[–]endBEAT -1 points0 points  (0 children)

stuck between traditional and modern third world country

So pretty much your country and countrymen continue to oppress women. Didn't your President call women who work 'half persons'? But I guess it's okay to bilk your female friends. Next time don't go out for a celebration without giving a heads up that you're only paying for yourself.

[–]endBEAT -1 points0 points  (0 children)

"Let's show women how weak and hypocritical they are by reminding them they are a long way from independence!"

[–]blackedoutfast -1 points0 points  (1 child)

you are right about how the bill should have been split between friends, but in terms of social interaction the money is irrelevant. you lost because you allowed the other dude to control the frame. that's why you are the outcast asshole of the group right now instead of the red pill alpha male leader.

he framed the situation as "a true gentlemen would pay for the ladies in this situation. therefore all the other dudes who think women should pay their fair share are ungentlemanly assholes." instead of taking control by attacking his dumb blue pill premise, you passively accepted the way he framed the scene and started going after hypocritical feminism. in the real world, you are right. but inside his framing of that particular slice of reality, you stepped into the role of one of those asshole dudes. you simply proved his point.

what you should have done was completely reframe the situation. point out that the real reason he wants to pay is because he is a thirsty little fuck who is too much of a pussy to ask these girls on a real romantic date but is still trying to impress them by flashing money. put him on the defensive while maintaining your calm confidence and it's much more likely that everyone would have chosen to view reality through your frame.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

point out that the real reason he wants to pay is because he is a thirsty little fuck who is too much of a pussy to ask these girls on a real romantic date but is still trying to impress them by flashing money.

This is even worse advice. This response is way more hostile and you're unnecessarily escalating the situation. You might as well just say fuck you to their face.