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I know it’s damage control but as some background I’d first like to mention that I have Generalized Anxiety Disorder, and I’m not on meds for it (had a bad experience with depression meds a while back). I stopped going to therapy a while back too.

Now know that game is a skill, and I know that lifestyle and money go along with that. I really enjoy the science of making money, and the happiness I get from building good lifestyle habits, but one thing continually eats at me: the fact that I’m still a virgin at 19. I’m scared that I’ll stay a virgin for much longer. Barring the fact that I still live with my mother and older sister, the problem is that I just can’t get as psyched about getting better at game as with money and lifestyle changes. I can’t get psyched about getting good at something that I can’t entirely control. I like knowing how everything will go, so I’m bad at anything that has to do with other people unless I’m leading a group, and even then, most of my endeavors in a I’m too nervous when driving, I’m bad at keeping people interested, I can barely even play Fortnite that well, and they all have the fact that another person is involved in common.

Give me a Sudoku or KenKen puzzle and I’ll become infatuated with it, a book by anyone from Socrates to Rollo and I can write another book about it, or a VSauce or Numberphile video and I’ll be raving about said video for days. I LOVE learning new things but not when it comes to direct interaction with others. Hell, I only have one acquaintance whom I can talk to about the shit that I like, and she’s taken by a fucking loser. Not that I wanna fuck her, I’m not into her, but I have no guy friends, and girls barely glance in my direction. I don’t go looking for attention, but if I were to try to my best bet would be to ace tests and answer all the professor’s questions. On a contradictory note: I’m even running for two different club positions just to get in there and be noticed somehow.

No matter how many IOIs I might get, it never amounts to much, and I’m a good looking dude in my opinion. I even tried Mode One with a girl at my job (before I learned not to shit where you eat) and she still flirts with me to this day but she’ll probably never actually fuck me. And before we bring up frame, I SWORE I had a chance with her. The IOIs were (and still are) pretty apparent.

The last couple of months I’ve been trying to avoid the problem by just explaining to myself that women shouldn’t be my mental point of origin. But fuck man...I’m a fucking incel, that’s at least gotta change. The hell do I do? I can’t keep stuffing the problem away.

[–]Granite_Pill 130 points131 points  (14 children)

The hell do I do?

Lift. Eat. Sleep. Pursue lucrative goals. Anxiety can only be cured with confidence. Confidence is gained over time by defeating challenges and accomplishing goals. Keep chatting people up to work on your people skills. Don't put so much importance on your virginity. Stop being a pussy. Challenge yourself. Do something dangerous. Scare the shit out of yourself.

But first, swallow this red pill: You're 19 years old. You have very low to zero SMV. Spend this valuable time of your youth to better yourself for your own sake. The girls will come in time. You sound like a mess, so get to it. You've got a lot of work to do.

Delete facebook. Don't watch TV. Don't play video games.

[–]diogov9 14 points15 points  (0 children)

I would only add meditation other than that your comment is gold

[–]DarthRoacho 7 points8 points  (3 children)

Don't play video games.

Play video games in MODERATION. Just like with anything else. Too much of anything is unhealthy.

[–]ARUKET 17 points18 points  (2 children)

Drastic situations call for drastic measures.

He can return to video games after he has built himself up a bit.

[–]DarthRoacho 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Agreed. Work before pleasure.

[–]TeamLitten 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I know this is pretty unrelated to OP’s problem but I have to applaud you on this post. It’s true gold, like TRP summarized. Anyway, I wanted to ask you how I can get more sleep as you mentioned. I’m in high school and usually get 6 hours or less of sleep. I’ve been looking to get more sleep but don’t know how so I would like your advice on how to get more sleep.

[–]Granite_Pill 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Wake up earlier. Like 03:30. By the time bedtime rolls around, you'll be tired.

Work hard all day. Work so hard, by the end of the day you're exhausted.

Have quiet time. Turn off the TV, computer, phone, media device, all electronics, and lights and just sit or lay there with nothing but your own thoughts. Relax and breathe deeply. Don't do anything else. Just lay there and envelop yourself in the awareness of your existence. Do this for 10 minutes. Set a timer if you want to. You must have a defined period of time to do this so you won't distract yourself wondering how much longer you need to do this, or if you're too wide awake, or if it's working or not working. For 10 minutes you are going to take a break from sensory overload and external mental stimulation. More often than not, you won't be able to make to the end of those 10 minutes without falling asleep. Even if you don't fall asleep, your mind and body will power down into state of tranquility. Meditate or read a book. No electronic screens.

[–][deleted] 33 points34 points  (4 children)

Hi. I am almost 21. I was kissless until I turned 18. I had my first sex not long before I turned 19. My body count is now almost 20 and my LTR is a HB8 that does semi-regular threesomes with me and lets me fuck other girls, which I take advantage of semi-regularly (once a month ish).

The point being: you're young and life can still change. But you have to change it. What you have to do to change it I do not know. For me, I changed from being a little puss boy who never approached to shotgun approaching and probably being pretty creepy for a while. Well, creepy me still got some makeouts and even laid a couple times. And as I got more success I was just continuously adjusting to the point I'm at now where I hardly make an effort and have sex regularly and have a new partner slightly less regularly but still kinda regularly. The thing is Goku didn't go Super Saiyan in Episode One. Shit takes practice and learning and you're lucky you're a dude because you've got years to master this shit. I think men's SMV peaking in their mid-30s like this sub says is a little overplayed but you can definitely fuck hot ass girls at from 25-35 if you manage your shit right.

But yeah, just go out there shoot your shot and keep shooting til it starts going in. And maybe when you get more efficient you won't need to take 40 shots every game to score 6 points. But hey, Kobe theory works.

Edit: just read your post actually--I gave you a pretty generalized answer. My brain is pretty analytical too, but what you gotta realize is that game can be analytical as well. Think about it as learning how people work, rather than getting laid. I incorporate a lot of deeper digging questions into my "game" just for self-amusement reasons, and it may or may not help my "game." But it's fun for me and keeps me doing it. So I do it. Find for you what you like in game, or maybe just decide to be an incel. There's really nothing wrong with being incel if you recognize it'd make you happiest. For some, it does.

[–]HurricaneHugues 21 points22 points  (4 children)

All your problems can be remedied by reading the fucking sidebar.

"she still flirts with me to this day but she’ll probably never actually fuck me. And before we bring up frame, I SWORE I had a chance with her. The IOIs were (and still are) pretty apparent."

Victory has already defeated you. You're the one destroying yourself. You know shes very interested, yet somehow you still find a way to discredit yourself and say she wouldnt fuck you. Normally its strictly "dont shit where you eat", but in your case I'd say go for it. Ask her out to something real simple but fun. Maybe some frozen yogurt or ice cream (depending on if its not brick af oitisde where u are now), or just invite her over to watch a fun movie with pizza and drinks. Go for it, and secure then sure bag. Dont overthink it. Say what's on your mind.

[–]IFuckingHateAllergy 4 points5 points  (3 children)

It's been a while since I've been so triggered in this subreddit that I actually reading up on his post history. Fuck me I know. But I JUST HAD TO. I needed perspective on how this person thinks the way he does. Even if it's only based off his comment history. Thankfully it's not that long.

I've been wondering why his mentality was so out place. Not a single thing he said would suggest he actually read the sidebar and took it to heart. Then I realized, he had serial LDR's with people he never met. That is on some next level fucked up for me. I'd never imagine it.

But he's young so let's chalk it all up to that. His issue is that he has the case of "analysis paralysis". Nothing suggest that he actually has taken action to all the information he has available from TRP. All I saw was non-conformist rhetoric and a slight misogynistic tone.

He's not stupid by any means. Far from it. He seems to be a pretty intellectual individual, but that right now is his biggest weakness. And at this point, nothing will change his mentality but himself. I'd know because I use to think exactly like he did. It's hard to not overthink when you're an overthinker. But should be easily solved by meditation to keep himself mentally present at the moment instead of ruminating every possible scenario that might not even actually happen.

[–]antariusz 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Forcing yourself into uncomfortable positions and/or even choosing a career which forces you to make rapid decisions without overthinking can also improve it. Best decision I ever made... it wasn’t easy, but 10 years later, my life is way better.

[–]mickey__ 0 points1 point  (1 child)

actually reading up on his post history


[–]IFuckingHateAllergy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

typo. OP's post history.

[–]herbage923 35 points36 points  (2 children)

“I can barely even play Fortnite that well” I think your focusing on the wrong things.

[–]Internet_Curmudgeon 12 points13 points  (0 children)

So, you're an INTP/INTJ and not skilled with women. Ok, that's a ton of young guys I know. And me, or formerly me.

If you want actionable steps, here they are:

  1. Practice flirting with everyone. Make people think you are Italian.

  2. Learn to read body language. It'll come easy to you because of your analytical personality

  3. Start gaming women. Try online dating to get practice, if you must. But then you have to practice kino IRL too, unless you want to stay a virgin forever

  4. Read sidebar articles on TheRedPill and Seduction. Don't worry about what's on the front page of the sub at any given time

[–]KettleLogic 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Still a virgin at 19. Incel. Mate you just a kid who hasn't got game and probably too high a standards. Are you planning on going to university. You get to reinvent yourself and make new friends do it. Put on the mask of confidence til it your actual face. I was a virign til 19 as well. It really means nothing.

Start lifting. Get interesting hobbies. For the love of god, go back to therapy. Deal with anxiety and your problem with people. Sleep regularly and become a better person. Women will come once you've raised your SMV. TRP should be more about you taking girls off a pedestal and being the best you, you can be.

I'd highly suggest you ask therapist to work on interpersonal skills. I'd also suggest looking into self-help books that deal with negotiations, sales and marketing. All TRP techniques are really just sales techniques redeployed for social situations.

[–]Flintblood 7 points8 points  (0 children)

First, You’re 19. For males it’s very common to be a virgin at that age.

Second, the fact that you are so soberly and matter-of-fact dealing with this tells me you have your emotional state under control.

Last for now; try CBD oil for your anxiety. It changed much for me. I still have tension anxiety creep up, but that happens more when I skip too many workout days and when real multiple stressors are coming at me from all sides.

[–]821sleepingbag 5 points6 points  (0 children)

No ones an incel there are just people at the low end of the SMV spectrum. Start improving yourself and your SMV and learn game and the women will come.

[–]UpperRedSide 7 points8 points  (1 child)

If you're only 19 you don't reserve the right to call yourself that. Become a forty year old virgin. Then you can consider yourself an incel.

Otherwise, you have your entire life ahead of you.

[–]Greek-God-Brody -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

LMFAO, yeah, spend almost half your life without having fucked a woman and still not realizing it's because of your looks (or your utter lack of social skills).

If you're over 18 and not getting laid at least once a few months, despite your hormones screaming to you to go and procreate, you're an Incel. (it's not a subjective etiquette, Involuntary celibate, the definition is crystal clear).

19 is pretty young, if he starts learning Game now, he's setting up his 20s to be a success. I lost my v-card at 25.

RSD Tyler: If you're in your 20's, and you're not getting laid, there's something wrong with you.

[–]The__Tren__Train 7 points8 points  (1 child)


[–]MrCrowley665 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Idk why the fuck I laughed so hard at this.

[–]Herdsengineers 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Bit of advice. Talk less, be more calm and collected, and escalate touching. Start with mild brushes of her arm or shoulders. If she seems okay with it, move to her back or top/outside of her thigh. Lean in some, get close while talking. Again, remember to talk less, and keep what you say short.At some point you'll be leaning in close enough to go for the kiss. Don't surprise her, be obvious you're going for it. While you're still learning to read the cues she wants it, reach up and touch her cheek before moving in. If she smiles or seems good, GENTLY take her around the back of her head/neck and GENTLY pull just a little to you and move in a little. If she doesn't resist, go the rest of way to plant one on her lips.

And from there, you just slowly escalate kissing, touching, making out, slowly more intensely, etc. Throw some push-pull in, as in kiss some, then stop. Then go in again, pushing things farther in terms of intensity, touching (arms, hands around her, grab her ass a little). If more private run a hand up her side a few times, close but not on her breast. She'll react by moving an arm down to block, or remaining open to being felt up.

And so on from there to eventually getting her isolated, in private, in a bedroom somewhere, start removing clothes, and bingo. Once you've been through the routine a few times, you start to learn to read the signs better and can progress quicker when she's up for it.

The push pull/start stop is important. Work her up to wanting more, then stop and leave her hanging for a little while. Leave her wanting more, so when you go for more, she's hungry for it at each step that you escalate how far you've gotten. Also, if she stops you, you get LMR, ASD, etc. - you CANNOT let on that it bothers you. Keep frame and composure. Just be willing to tastefully and gracefully bow out, I never got a bad response from a calm and friendly "no problem, but i need to cool down some if we're stopping this, no offense." and then back away from her. Sit separate, etc. If she wants to reignite things, she'll let you know once you learn to recognize it. Lots of times, she'll want to keep making out, and after re-engaging, she'll chose to go farther than before. If she doesn't want to reignite, or doesn't ignite to start, don't take it personally. Again, be calm, stay composed, stay friendly, no matter what, and if it's just not happening, then bail out gracefully (ie - without being butthurt towards her).

Chances are you just haven't had the experience to learn the cues, and you probably talk too much. You can't talk your way into a girl's pants. You gotta lead her there. There's a process - rapport, then comfort, then attraction. Start with rapport, let her get comfortable, then let her get attracted. From there it's a combo of continuing to with rapport, comfort, and the right non-neediness and leading the interaction to keep building her attraction and desire.

You're only 19, and especially today, guys get indoctrinated in exactly how to go about this the wrong way. Take it easy, relax, stop pressuring yourself. You'll get it, and you'll be fine, and hopefully realize sex isn't a big deal, and not worth the angst and stress guys feel over it.

[–]look_good 1 point2 points  (0 children)

lift. get your T up. meditate. look into fasting. read good books. watch standup comedy. get a job waiting tables, it’s the best way to practice social skills. restaurant work is full of shit tests. hang out with cool dudes and hot chicks. turn yourself into a dope character.

oh and don’t tell anyone you’re a virgin lol

[–]takobozu 2 points3 points  (0 children)

you are hopeless my friend.

[–]astrogatorjones 0 points1 point  (0 children)

read 12 rules for life by jordan peterson, I’m pretty sure it will help you a lot

[–]NegativeCollision 0 points1 point  (0 children)

“Incel” here, I think the Red Pill works for some and doesn’t for others, it didn’t work for me that’s for sure but I’ll promote ask trp tactics here.

You need to hit the gym and just start reading male empowerment books and articles, ease your mind etc, get some new clothes, tidy up yourself etc

[–]iiOgetsu[S] 0 points1 point  (5 children)

Thanks. Everyone keeps trying to coddle me or joke rather than take me seriously.

[–]UshankaDalek 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Because you sound immature and very pretentious. Truth be told, at 19, you're not an "incel", so don't be surprised if some people aren't taking this seriously.

"I’m a good looking dude in my opinion" / "I have no guy friends, and girls barely glance in my direction." Well, something doesn't add up here. So you're lifting; OK. So either you're wrong about looking good, or there's something offputting about you. First verify that you have good hygiene and dress normally. If that's good, you might just be struggling socially. Consider these points and see what you need to fix.

"I’m even running for two different club positions just to get in there and be noticed somehow." That's a start. I didn't realize until almost the end of college that I needed more than good grades to be attractive. Get a life outside of class if your coursework allows it.

Finally, learn how to chill out and be easy-going. No one wants to hang out with the guy who says things like, "Most of my waking time is spent working or implementing ways to make money." You can make that the entire focus of your life (MGTOW), or you can take some of that time for dancing, playing pool, or doing other seemingly dumb stuff to build a social life. For me, "chill" is a mode I have to consciously switch on before I can socialize fluidly, and you may be the same way. If so, learn how to do it, and remember to make mistakes and learn from them.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (3 children)

You don't get cuddling over here. What I see in this thread is mostly solid advice.

[–]iiOgetsu[S] -2 points-1 points  (2 children)

Not from other posts I’ve made. 1 or 2 will be the no bullshit Gestalt advice I’m looking for, and then the rest is “you’ll be ok, just work on yourself and women will come”

It’s harsh to read back what I’m reading but I’ve probably got more value from this thread than any previous post I’ve made. I’d rather be told that I’m being arrogant and how to fix it than being told that nothin is wrong with me and given little to no solutions.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Hurr durr not all advice makes sense

It's advice people put their valuable time into and provide to you for free. Filter out the bits that make sense to you. Stop being entitled, jeez.

[–]iiOgetsu[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Well when you put it that way, I guess you’re right.

[–]OwenCDM -1 points0 points  (2 children)

Serious question. How often do you masturbate?

[–]iiOgetsu[S] -1 points0 points  (1 child)

Not as often as before, I used to do it 2-3 times a day but not it’s like 3-4 times a week.

[–]OwenCDM 5 points6 points  (0 children)

  1. Masturbate just 1 or 2 times a MONTH.
  2. Don't watch porn. Don't fantasize about sex/girls.
  3. Focus on thinking and doing things that make you feel TRULY PROUD OF YOURSELF.

Keep this discipline, and soon you'll begin to see amazing positive changes in EVERY aspect of your life. Guaranteed.


[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon -1 points0 points  (0 children)

But fuck man...I’m a fucking incel, that’s at least gotta change. The hell do I do? I can’t keep stuffing the problem away.

Go talk to some women

[–]Random_throwaway_000 1 points1 points [recovered]

Hire a hooker, BAM not a incel anymore. No such thing as 'incel' as long as you got $200 cash on ya.

[–]Greek-God-Brody 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Nope, you're still an Incel if you do that.

[–]iiOgetsu[S] -5 points-4 points  (3 children)

What if I wanna spend $200 on assets rather than sex? A hooker is a liability.

[–]HurricaneHugues 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Jesus Christ dude. You sound like a fucking clown. You think like a fucking fax machine.

"Erghh a hooker is a liability"

Shut the fuck up! If you were my friend I'd fucking slap u for saying some goofy shit like that. Just fucking do it if you fail with the girl at your job. Get it over with already. Want to know what I believe your problem is? You spend too much time in books/learning. Youre way too analytical. Spend a week without doing your regular routine. Go on and find a local basketball meetup and go. I don't care if u cant play because youre trash. Go, break your routine of being a fucking nerd with a calculator up his ass. Destroy who you believe you are. This week, don't do a single thing you would do. Be someone completely different

[–]Random_throwaway_000 1 points1 points [recovered]

Then it's not involuntary celibacy, it's voluntary. Duh?

[–]iiOgetsu[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Lol well I gotta at least thank you for making me laugh. Kinda needed one.

[–]ReasonablyGoodMexica -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Incel at 19? I'd say you can't claim that title until you're 30 years old. At that point, you're less an incel and more a fool.