MetaHow to really succeed at Tinder (not just another Tinder guide, this is a detailed Tinder roadmap) (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by Endorsed Contributormallardcove


Tired of seeing posts on here shitting all over Tinder. If you do it right there is no easier way to meet women in my opinion. The ones shitting on it are the ones not having any success. I've been successful at Tinder(and Bumble) for the past couple of years and let me show you how I do it.

I know a lot of Tinder guides have been posted here before, but here is my take on how to have success.

Step 0 - Understand The Ultimate Maxim of Tinder

IF YOU ARE NOT GETTING MATCHES, ITS BECAUSE YOUR PICTURES SUCK. 100% of the time this is the case. It's not Tinder screwing you, its not Tinder trying to get you to pay for its Plus/Gold features, its not shallow women, its not women only on there for validation, its not a glitch, its not anything but the fact that your pictures are ass. Keep this in mind when you inevitably see someone shit on Tinder in the comments of this post or elsewhere on TRP.

Step 1 - Understand The Tinder ELO System and how it works

Basically Tinder uses an ELO rating system to "rate" each account to judge how attractive the account is based on their swiping and how they get swiped. Obviously, if your profile gets swiped right a lot, you'll have a higher rating, and vice versa. It's not just how people swipe you that determines your rating, but also how picky you are. If you are swiping right on everything, your rating will go down because when you do that you are swiping right on low rated profiles. If you are pickier and only swipe right on higher rated profiles, you'll have a chance for a better score, assuming you are getting swiped right a lot as well. To learn more about how the ELO rating system works mathematically, check out http://archive.is/O07Ad

TLDR, your Tinder ELO score is determined on the rating/quality of profiles swiping right on you, and the rating/quality of profiles you are swiping right on.

Step 2 - Know your competition

One thing I recommend doing, if you have the time, is creating a burner Facebook account as a woman. Use it to make a Tinder account and select that you are interested in men. This way you can scroll through the profiles to see the men you will be competing with in your area.

A general theory of Tinder is that for brand new accounts, you get a "noob boost", which means they are going to show you the higher ELO rated Tinder accounts first, and your profile will also be put toward the top of other user's stacks so they don't have to scroll through many profiles before seeing yours. This doesn't mean every single Tinder account in your stack that you scroll through will be high rated, because remember, there will also be new accounts in your initial stack who are also being boosted, many of which will suck.

Why am I mentioning this noob boost? Because you can use this to scout your competition. The profiles you will be seeing when you do this are generally the profiles the attractive women will be seeing. That way you know what you need to do to beat the competition.

For the sake of this post I went ahead and did this for my area(medium sized city in the Southern United States). I scrolled through the first 100 male profiles and gave each profile a rating on picture quality(1 being shit, 5 being top tier) and attractiveness(1 being ugly, 5 being top tier) and then I flagged an account if they were not lean.

Settings: Age 18-32, 30 mile radius.


  • Of the 100 profiles, only 3 of them had what I considered top tier pictures. Most were shitty selfies, bad quality pictures that had grainy or fuzziness in them, bad lighting, or bad poses. Lots of crappy gym selfies and mirror selfies. The average picture quality rating was 1.866 out of 5. That's bad, and shows you don't really need to do much to have better pictures than the rest.

  • The average attractiveness rating was a 2.1, not much higher than the picture quality number. And this is supposedly contains the best profiles? I think a lot of the profiles I saw were "noob boost" profiles, no way they would be high rated. Either way, I only handed out a "5" to 4 profiles, that's 4%, and only handed out a 4 to 3 profiles. That means out of 100, only 7 were what I considered attractive enough profiles a woman would swipe right on.

  • 65 of the 100 profiles were not lean, 51 were overweight, and 32 were obese. Once again, shows how much impact being lean has.

  • Average age was 20.9, but the average age of the profiles I gave a 3 or higher to was 24.6. Older guys seem to have a better grasp on this.

Moral of this story? You really don't have a high bar to clear when it comes to having a top tier Tinder profile. Most guys Tinder profiles suck ass. All you need are good quality photos and to be lean to beat most Tinder profiles out there. Unless Tinder only shows the highest rated accounts to accounts who already have a proven high ELO score and still hides them even from noob boost accounts.

Step 3 - Yes, being attractive matters

This is an app where people judge you on apperance. You think looks don't matter? They absolutely do. I am not saying this app is worthless for you if you are below a 7/10 in looks, but you have to reel in your expectations. Women on these apps are pickier than they are in real life, so if you are a 5/10, don't go in expecting to match with 8s or higher.

Before dismissing Tinder and other apps all together, try to max out your looks first. Lose weight, get lean, lift, dress well, wear the right accessories, sport a good haircut/hairstyle, have a good facial care/skin care routine, and all of that. Doing all of this + taking good pictures will go a long way and can add points to your attractiveness.

Step 4 - Pictures are 90% of the battle


You are going to sink or swim by your pictures, specifically, the quality of your pictures. Period. I consider myself an attractive man, but I failed at Tinder at first because my pictures sucked. Even if you are attractive, if you have shitty pictures, you are doomed. When I finally put some good pictures on my profile, it was night and day the number of matches and interest I was getting. It became like shooting fish in a barrel. I even got reported to Tinder as a catfish because women thought I was ripping my pictures from models and wasn't who I was in the pictures.

Now the term "good pictures" can mean so many different things. From my experience, here are the elements that make up good quality pictures:

  • Picture quality - There is a difference between a shitty cell phone front camera picture and a picture coming from a DSLR or expensive camera. This does matter. Front facing cell phone cameras generally have bad quality, bad apertures, bad lenses, and distort your face. The clearer and less grainy the picture, the better.

  • Lighting - Lighting matters. Pictures taken in the dark will suck because they will have high ISO settings, meaning more grainy. Pictures taken using indoor lighting often cast unnatural shadows with harsher lighting. Pictures taken with a camera flash add 7 years to your face and create all kinds of bad shadows and unappealing flashback. The best lighting is outdoors. The problem with outdoor photos is that generally the sun will be too bright, causing too many harsh shadows, overexposure and your eyes to squint. One solution is to take pictures when its cloudy. Or you can take pictures in the shade(but beware of surrounding glare that causes you to squint). The best time to take outdoor pictures is an hour after sunrise or before sunset, known as the golden hour. You can google "Golden Hour Calculator" to determine what time exactly this is for your location. During the golden hour you can take good pictures with soft, golden lighting and yet its not bright enough to cast bad shadows or make you squint. If you are wearing sunglasses it doesn't matter what time of day you take outdoor pics, but generally you don't want to have more than 1 or 2 pics in your Tinder picture album with sunglasses.

  • Setting - Where you take your pictures matter. A computer selfie at your desk in your room = shit. A picture of you outdoors somewhere interesting = good. The key here is variety. When I was doing the burner account competition check earlier, most guys are bad when it comes to variety of their settings. Find unique outdoor places to go to. One of my favorite is the roof of a parking garage downtown on weekends. There is no one up there, I don't have to pay to get in, and you get a badass view of the downtown skyline in the background. Parks, hiking trails, mountains, lakes, beaches, rivers, etc. all work. You can also be creative and get shots on the sidewalks, streets, etc.

  • Pose and Posture - You want your poses to be natural based on the setting your picture is taken. If you are taking a picture on a sidewalk, you obviously don't want your pose to be as if you are posing for the camera, you want your pose to be as if you were walking down the sidewalk. Go to YouTube and look up modeling poses for inspiration. And make sure to have good posture whatever pose you use.

  • Facial Expression - The key here is variety. You don't want all your photos to be of you smiling into the camera. You don't want all of your photos to be of you looking away from the camera with your mouth closed and a serious expression. I go with the rule of halves here. You want half of your pictures to be smiling, half not smiling. Then half of your pictures looking into the camera, and half looking away.

  • Composition - Where you are placed in the frame matters a lot. You see a lot of guys fail at this when checking out the competition. In my opinion there are only 2 acceptable compositions: Half body shots, and full body shots. Half body shots are generally shots from the waist or upper thigh up, full body has your entire body in the frame. But that is only half the battle - you don't want much open space between the top and bottom of the frame. Use the entire frame. This is a good example of what I mean in a full body shot, the concept for a half body shot is the same. Notice how the whole frame is used, not much gap above his head or below his shoes. Now here is an example of a bad full body shot - notice how much empty space there is above his head and below his feet. You want to avoid face only shots because they just aren't flattering and will hide your body, which you want to show off if you are lean, and also hides your fashion, which leads me to:

  • Fashion/Style - Your clothing choices matter and can greatly enhance your overall look if done right. You want your pictures to show off a diverse variety of well fitting stylish clothes. FIT is the key, more than style. They both greatly matter, but bad fit will ruin any style. A good style can't overcome bad fit. Go shopping to stores like J Crew and wear the smallest size you can that still fits, in a slim style cut if you can find it. Some good ideas for clothes to wear: Dark Wash Slim Jeans, Slim Chino Pants(Khaki is my favorite color), Flat Front Chino Shorts at 9 inch inseam or less, Slim Fit Casual Button Down Shirts, Polos, Well Fitting T-Shirts, Denim Button Downs, Denim Jackets, Bomber Jackets, Leather Jackets, Slim Dress Shirts, Nice Sweaters, Watches(you need to wear one in every photo), boots, dress shoes, loafers, nice sneakers, necklaces, pendants, and bracelets. NO - Cargo Shorts, Cargo Pants, tennis shoes, basketball shoes, "skater" shoes, flip flops/sandals, baggy clothes, hats, sweats, hoodies, logo or graphic shirts. You need to be wearing a wristwatch in all your pictures.

  • Hair - Make sure you put some effort into it, whatever you do. Find a good haircut/hairstyle for your face shape.

  • Pets - If you have a dog, probably a good idea to have a dog pic.

  • Motorcycle - If you have one, probably a good idea to have a pic of you on your bike

Step 5 - How to actually go about taking good pictures

So I stated what makes a good picture. But how do you actually do it? There are 3 ways I recommend, all of which are viable and have their pros and cons.

The Friend With a Camera Approach

Find a friend to go along with you with a camera and have him/her take pictures of you in various places or settings. Ideally you'll want a friend with a good camera who knows a thing or two about how to take good pictures. Or you could go on Craigslist or something and hire a professional photographer but that can be a bit pricey.

Pros: Lots of possibilities, someone else controlling the camera means you don't have to set and forget the photo settings or placement, good for getting shots at busy places with lots of people without creating a distraction or scene(think downtown locations), cheapest approach

Cons: Less creative control over the pictures, can only be done when friend is available and in that certain time frame, not everyone has a friend who is available or willing to do this.

The Tripod Approach

This is where you buy a tripod to go with whatever camera you are using, set up the tripod and take pictures. I do have a nice camera and a tripod, and have used this approach, but it can be difficult to get right even though I have a remote controller for it because with nicer cameras, it's most ideal to have someone behind the camera to fine tune the controls for every shot.

Pros: Don't need someone else, can do everything on your own time, allows for unique locations to be shot

Cons: Can be expensive, not ideal for high traffic places, tripod can be unstable and knocked over by things like wind, some locations there isn't an ideal place to put the tripod, even with a timer or remote controller it can be difficult to get the right photo settings in terms of shutter speed, aperture and focus

The Drone Approach

This is personally the approach I have used over the past year to amazing results. Obviously, drones aren't cheap, but they are worth the investment. Not only can you get some good photos from some unique angles and take them anywhere, but it also gives you a fun hobby as well on the side. I've used both the DJI Spark and DJI Mavic Air drone for this. Both have good cameras, and even better, they have an interval setting meaning it will take a picture every 2 seconds. Meaning 30 pictures a minute. DJI Spark battery lasts about 12 minutes, and DJI Mavic Air lasts about 16-18 minutes. That means you can get 360-480 pictures per battery. Tell me you can't find at least one good picture? You can find a DJI Spark new for $350-$400 in stores or on eBay used for cheaper. Just make sure you get a quality drone, DJI is a good brand. The cheap $50-$100 drones you can get at Wal-Mart won't cut it.

Pros: Don't need another person, can get all kinds of unique angles/settings/locations you can't get with a tripod, can be controlled remotely, good picture quality once you get the settings right

Cons: Loud, not ideal at all for use amongst places with a lot of traffic/people so you have to find more isolated places, some locations are restricted for drone use, takes a while to learn how to dial in the photo settings like ISO, shutter speed and exposure value that flatter you the most, expensive

All 3 of these approaches are viable. But one of these 3 approaches have to be used if you want to have top tier photos. Getting your cell phone camera, leaning it up against something, setting the timer and running into place isn't going to cut it. Outstretched arm selfies won't cut it. Cropped group pics won't cut it. Mirror pics won't cut it. Yes, it takes time and effort, and for some of the approaches, investment, but it pays off. Do you want to succeed or not?

Step 6 - To shirtless ab pic or not to shirtless ab pic?

From my experience, you can go either way. If you have a shitty body, are skinny or fat, and have no defined abs and vascularity, it won't work. If you have a good body with defined muscles, vein vascularity and a 6 pack, it won't hurt to have a shirtless picture in there. It's not always ideal, though. There are girls who will swipe left when they see a shirtless picture no matter what. I've found that shirtless pics work better when you are looking for hookups, not so much when you are looking for dating/something longer term.

If you want to use a shirtless pic, there is one rule: IT HAS TO LOOK CANDID. Shirtless mirror bathroom pic = NO. Shirtless gym selfie = NO. If it looks like you are posing for the picture, and therefore it was planned, its not going to work. It has to look like it was taken candidly, unplanned, as if you were doing something, and someone happened to take a picture of you. The shirtless picture I had the most success with was one of me at the park holding a football, I made it look like I was playing football, even though I was there by myself and used my drone to take the picture. However, I made it come across as extremely candid, even though my 6 pack and vein vascularity and muscles were showing off. Shirtless pics at the beach or pool also work.

Step 7 - Post Processing/Editing

You don't want to just use the pictures as they are. You want to find your best ones and then edit them. Use editing software(Adobe Lightroom is good, the stock Windows photo software is good, I am sure iPhoto is good) to mess around with the pictures. Apply filters, change the brightness/contrast/clarity/saturation, and all of that. The key is to not go overboard with the filters and everything. You still want it to look natural. The editing will add to your photo, not make your photo. Women will know if your picture is edited too much. Edit it in a way where it looks a lot better than the original, but at the same time you can't tell it was actually edited.

Step 8 - Selecting Which Pictures to Use

The generally key, as I have already stated, is variety. You want your 6 pictures to give a well rounded perspective of who you are. Variety in terms of poses, facial expressions, outfits, and locations.

Obviously you want to pick your 6 most flattering pictures. The best approach to use is to pick 6 locations and outfits and take a shit ton of pictures at all 6. Then pick the best from each group and there are your 6.

Your lead picture needs to be your best one. It needs to clearly show your face and your body, uncovered eyes(no sunglasses) with clothes on(no shirtless pics as your lead), by yourself(no group pics). Your last picture also needs to be a good one, as if a girl is swiping through your pics, will be her last impression before she decides to swipe right or left on you. Remember, she will judge you by your worst pic.

I'm not going to post my profile, but here is a breakdown of my pictures:

  • 4 of 6 I am smiling

  • 3 of 6 I am looking at the camera

  • 2 of 6 I am wearing sunglasses

  • 5 of 6 are full body shots, head to toe

  • All are taken outside

  • No shirtless pics that I am currently using

  • 2 of 6 I am wearing flat front chino shorts, 2 of 6 I am wearing jeans, 1 of 6 I am wearing khaki chinos, 1 of 6 I am wearing dress pants

  • 2 of 6 I am wearing a v neck t-shirt, 3 of 6 I am wearing a casual button down shirt with the sleeves rolled up, 1 of 6 I am wearing a dress shirt with a tie

  • 2 of 6 were taken in broad daylight(both sunglasses pics), 3 of 6 taken at sunset in the golden hour, 1 of 6 taken in broad daylight but in the shade

  • Locations Used: Beach Sand, Downtown Sidewalk, Work(Outside), Top Level of Downtown Parking Garage, Football Field, Side of Building

  • Poses Used: Sitting on Cooler, Leaning Against Pole, Leaning Against Wall, Walking With Football in Hand, Standing Straight Up Smiling Into the Camera, Looking Over Shoulder

  • No Group Pics or pics with others. Group pics are overrated. Yes, it shows you having fun with friends, but generally they are not flattering and the cropping you have to do ruins the quality. I'd rather have 100% control over my pictures from start to finish. If your pictures are good enough she won't give a shit if you are alone in all of them.

Step 9 - Your bio. Does it even matter?

In general, your bio doesn't matter. She really only looks at your pictures which are all that matter. If your pictures are good enough, then she might glance at your profile just to make sure you are a real person.

Your bio will not help you at all. It can only hurt you. Since you have all to lose and nothing to gain, you need to keep your bio short and to the point. If you are over 6 feet tall, list your height. If you are 5'10, say you are 6 feet. Put where you are from, what part of town you live in, and about 3 or 4 things you like to do. Put the college you graduated from if you have graduated. If you have a cool job, put it in there, otherwise be either really vague with it or don't put it in there at all.

Example Profile that works: "6'1, from New York, living here in Florida in West Miami. Ohio State '13. Fishing, traveling, fitness, and more."

There. That's all you really need. Nothing in there that will scare anyone away or devalue you, but makes you look like a real person. Don't try to put anything witty or funny or out there. Just keep it simple.

Step 10 - Deploying your Profile and Using Tinder

Don't set up your profile until you are absolutely ready to start with your full profile because once you set up your profile you are put in others stacks. If you already have an account, delete it so you can start over. Upload your pictures, write your bio, and where you go from here is up to you.


Be picky. Only swipe right on girls that you are certain are who they are in their profile. If she only has face shots, chances are she is fat. Remember the rule: "If you got it, flaunt it". Girls live by this. If they have a good body, they will show it off. If they have good tits or ass, it will be shown off. If it looks like they are hiding something, they are. Read her profile, don't just look at her pics. Chances are you might like her pics, but then you look at her profile and it will state she is a single mom. Generally, if you have been swiping a while and have reached the point of the stack where all the girls are ugly, and then you come across one that is hot, chances are she is either a bot or single mom. Because legit hot girls who aren't single moms or don't have major red flags will never be that far down the stack.

Being picky also helps your ELO score, which increases your chances of being shown at the top of the stacks of the more attractive women.

Super Likes

There are two trains of thought on Super Likes. One train is that its good, it will make her think longer about you. The other train is that its creepy and too much and shows her you are already too interested.

My take? Use them. I've had more good than bad from super likes. Not only that, but using a Super Like automatically puts you at the top of her stack, so you know you will be seen next time she logs on. Unless you have Tinder Gold, you only get one per day so use wisely.

Tinder Gold

I am a fan. I only recommend, however, using this on a month by month basis. I think its a good investment to use your first month. The queue which shows who has liked you is helpful and will help you gauge how good your pictures are. If its not filling up you have shitty pictures. Also the quality of girls liking you will also help you see what type of women is finding you attractive. Lastly it helps because it helps you ground yourself to reality. A lot of girls don't log into Tinder that much, so by seeing who has already liked you, you won't get your hopes up for girls in the stack who may or may not be active(Tinder hides profiles inactive more than 2 weeks).

If you are successful at Tinder I think its worth it to stay on Gold after your first month. I do. The passport feature is useful for traveling, as you can arrange meetups with girls before you even get there. This is just my opinion though. If you aren't successful, paying for Gold won't make you successful. The best way I can describe Tinder Gold is that its a valet for an already successful Tinder user, it just makes it easier. Seeing who has already liked you might sound like something you don't really need or need to pay for, and while I agree, its actually been more beneficial than I realized.


Regardless of whether or not you subscribe to Gold, I think everyone needs to try a boost at least once. A boost puts you at the top of the stack for everyone in your area for 30 minutes. This means you will be seen by everyone who logs on during that time. I get matches regardless but each time I boost it seems like I get a lot more. Boosts help because after a while, unless your ELO score is good, you fall farther and farther down the stacks of other girls Tinder stacks, and you won't be seen. Instead all she will see are high ELO accounts and new accounts getting their noob boost. Women swipe a lot less profiles than men do(since the attractive ones will match with almost everyone they swipe right on) so its vital to make sure you are showing up at the top of stacks.

Timing is important with boosts. From my experience, Wednesday at 7:15pm is the best time to use it. This is ideal because its before the weekend before plans are set. If you use it on Friday or Saturday girls already have plans.

You get a free boost every month if you have gold, otherwise its $4 each.


Obvious bot accounts are obvious. Their pictures are often cropped and low quality but of really attractive women in generic poses/settings. Their bios are often empty or extremely generic. And they often only have either 1, 3 or 4 pictures exactly. They are pretty easy to spot.

Instagram/Snapchat Follower Farmers, Sugar Daddy Seekers and Venmo Scams

You'll see girls on here who are clearly only doing it to rope in instagram/snapchat followers, or find a sugar daddy, or get money sent to them via Venmo.

Here is my take on them. Yes, that is what they are doing. However, for the right guy, they will throw that away. Use the Brad Pitt test here. If she saw Brad Pitt had matched with her on Tinder, you think she would just try to use him for Venmo money or to get an Instagram follow out of him? No way.

If you think you are attractive enough, go for it anyway. Generally these girls obviously fishing for Instagram Followers or Venmo money should be massive red flags automatically disqualifying them from anything above plate material, but its possible to bust through the massive shit test. I've done it multiple times.

Step 11 - You've matched, now what?

So you have matched. Ideally with multiple women.

As successful as I am at this, I would still say only about 10% of women message me first(and many women who message you first will be bots if you were unable to detect them prior to swiping). You are going to have to do the initiation.

Fuck that shit about message timing, when to message her, etc. "If I message her too soon after matching she will think I am desperate!" No. Just message her when you feel like it.

The key to an opener is to be different, set the frame, use her name, and play on her emotions. I've watched girls use tinder before and pretty much every guy either opens them with a boring "Hey" or "Hi", or uses some really stupid cheesy pick up or sexual opener that is just awkward. None of that is different, none of it sets the frame in the guy's court, and none of it plays on her emotions in a positive way.

It has to be organic. Review her profile and pictures, and try to craft a message based on that. Don't compliment her physically(i.e. you're hot or you're cute), don't get sexual in the first message, or use a dumb pick up line.

Here is an example I used recently that worked. It was a profile of a nurse who said she worked the overnight shift and lets say her name was Anna.

"Anna, are you a Waffle House or IHOP kind of girl? Since I am guessing those are the 2 places I would have to choose from to take you with that schedule..."

See what I did here? I did a lot of things. I set the frame as one that I will be taking her out(not necessarily to Waffle House or IHOP). I crafted the message organically based on her profile, and I made her laugh with the Waffle House/IHOP reference since those places are pretty sketchy in the AM hours, but people secretly love those places. I also gave her a reason to respond.

Here is another example of a girl who had a picture of her bowling, lets say her name was Tina:

"Tina, if we go on a bowling date, I am not letting you use the bumpers, so you better learn how to bowl without them"

Again, I set the frame from the first message to one that I would be taking her out without asking her out. I teased her about her bowling skills and gave her a reason to respond(to defend her bowling skills). We did go on a bowling date when all was said and done.

It's a numbers game

You are going to have girls who don't respond. You are going to have girls who unmatch. You are going to have girls who take forever to respond. You are going to have girls who are just not into it even if they respond. It's really a numbers game. The more girls you open, the better chances you have at least one who goes through with it all. Don't get hung up on any one girl. Assume every girl you match with will ghost you. Assume every girl you talk to will eventually stop. Assume every girl who gives you her number and you set up a date/meet with will flake. Don't get invested. Persistence is the key.

I think this is where most guys get discouraged and come here to write their OMG TINDER IS SHIT posts. They have shitty pics, and only match with 1 or 2 girls, have no abundance, and when it doesn't work out with those 1 or 2 girls whether they don't respond, stop responding, flake, etc. they act like Tinder is shit and all women on there are shit. You have to remain persistent. Keep in mind the better you look, the better your pics are, the more attractive you are and better your text game is, the less likely she will flake, and the more likely she will respond and follow through. I can attest to that. Remember that girls have dozens of matches and are only going to bother with their best ones.

Step 12 - When to ask for her number/ask her out?

So you have had a successful opener and started a conversation. When do you escalate to get her number or arrange a date/meet up?

Every girl is different, from what I have learned, so there is no one size fits all plan. Some girls want more rapport and chit chat before they are comfortable giving you their number or setting up a date. Others require less. Regardless, you need to at least try to get a number or set up a date in 5-6 messages or less. Remember, she has dozens of matches, with guys who are farther along the process than you probably are, so you have to shit or get off the pot eventually. Plus she will get bored if you don't go after what you want.

The best way to do it is to have the conversation naturally flow into you asking for her number or asking her out. Here is an example that I used, of a girl who actually messaged me first:

Her: Hey! How was your weekend?

Me: Pretty good. You?

Her: Nothing too exciting lol. Lots of work.

Me: Well we need to fix the nothing too exciting part. Let's go get some drinks, when are you free

See how I took her response and turned it into escalation. You already have the IOI, otherwise you wouldn't have matched, so why waste time? I did it on message #2. You need to look for the opening to make it flow naturally to asking for her number or asking her out. Sometimes that takes longer than 2 messages, but you get the idea. You don't want to go too early though, then you just come across as a player/needy/desperate.

The worst thing you can do is just make her your pen pal and ask dozens of interview style questions without escalating. She is not an idiot, she knows what you are there for. If after 5-6 messages or so you still haven't found the opening to ask for her number or ask her out, just do it.

Step 13 - So you've got her number and set up a date, now what?

Try to set up a date within 1-3 days of getting her number/asking her out. Anything longer she will probably flake. The only times I have successfully set up dates longer in advance is when she was out of town.

From there you need to shut the fuck up and not contact her until the day of the date, where you confirm plans. Don't text her, don't become her penpal. All you can do at this point is hurt yourself.

If she initiates with you and texts you, respond to be polite, but space out your responses. I'm talking, take 12+ hours to respond. I had a girl who was all over me from the time we set up a date to the time we met up, always texting me. I didn't want to be rude so I would respond, and I thought that since she was the one initiating, I was fine. Wrong. We go out and then after the date she says she "wasn't feeling a connection". You'll never live up to the standard you set by texting her. You have nothing to gain and everything to lose. Resist the urge to text her until you meet up.

If she flakes, she flakes. It happens. Don't become invested. If she is truly interested she will propose a counter time. Just because she cancels doesn't mean she isn't interested. I had one cancel on me and I thought it was over and I needed to move on but she rescheduled with me.

Does this approach also work with Bumble?

Yes. The difference is that she will open you, so you can take her opener and play with it. That doesn't mean its any easier or harder.

My problem with Bumble is that the userbase is smaller, and there are so many inactive profiles on there. Unlike Tinder, Bumble doesn't remove/hide profiles that are inactive. I was using Bumble and saw the profile of a girl I work with who was married a year ago. She said she hasn't logged on there since 2015.

Also you will match with girls on Bumble and they still won't message you. Again, girls get tons of matches so they will only message the cream of the crop. Become the cream.

The upside to Bumble is that the quality of girls are higher.

Conclusion and Final Thoughts

  • Tinder/Bumble/Online Dating is 99% pictures. They have to be outstanding. Not good. Not great. Oustanding. How much you want to invest in getting outstanding pictures is ultimately up to you because it takes effort and time and in some cases money. Just remember. If you aren't getting matches, its your pictures. End of discussion. It's not Tinder screwing you over, its not shallow women only looking for validation, its not women having you outside of their Tinder preference settings, its not anything but your shitty ass pictures.

  • Your approach if you are looking for hookups and your approach if you are looking for something more long term has to be different.

  • It really is a numbers game. I know this sounds cliche but the more matches you get the more your odds are in favor of at least one working out. You get more matches by having good pictures and utilizing features like boost. Tinder might seem like a lost cause if you only get 5 matches and none of them work out. But if you have 50 or 500 matches you're going to have matches that work out, its the law of averages.

  • Don't get your hopes up on any one individual girl until you actually meet up with her in person. From there you apply TRP to prevent the onset of oneitis.

  • Don't match with a girl unless you are 100% certain she is who she is in her pictures. Read her entire bio and look at all her pics before matching to find red flags.

  • Tinder Gold in my opinion is useful if you are already successful at Tinder, but it won't turn you from unsuccessful to successful.

  • I've seen false advice given around TRP that the opener doesn't matter, if she is attracted to you she is attracted. While attraction does matter the most, you still have to give her a reason to engage with you, invoke her emotions and set the frame.

  • Shit or get off the pot. She has dozens of matches and dozens of guys doing the same thing you are doing. If you don't make a move, another guy will. Build some short rapport and then find an opening to ask for her number/ask her out.

  • There is inevitably going to be someone in the comment section saying you don't need Tinder or dating apps, all you need is day/night game, Tinder is shit. What if I told you, you could do both? mindblown.gif

[–]MormonRedPill 783 points784 points  (6 children)

Submit this to IGN as a game walkthrough

[–]yallapapi 115 points116 points  (1 child)

I was reading it and felt like plagarizing it into an ebook to sell on Amazon.

EDIT: Because it's really fucking good. Great job OP

[–]pizzarulzz 22 points23 points  (0 children)

Awesome, love you man for this

[–]FearGarbhArMait 69 points70 points  (0 children)

excellent post i want to save this.

[–]crunchyRocks 35 points36 points  (0 children)

OP did a fantastic job highlighting how to become a better Tinder user without the smuggery or bias. This is one of the highest quality posts if seen on Reddit.

I’ve used Tinder for many years and though about 75% on here I’ve come to learn over time and experience, there’s still some to learn here. Much thanks!

To pepper w some of my experiences, it helps to know what you want out of Tinder. Personally I’ve met friends, lovers, FWB, and even networked on here. When I first started I did get a bit jaded from the ghosting and such, but I made sure not to do that to others. Treat others w genuine care and respect regardless of purpose (ONS or LTR) and people will notice. You’ll stand out after the first encounter.

[–]1LowCreddit 208 points209 points  (41 children)

I find the people who don't like Tinder aren't lifting enough.

[–]Endorsed Contributormallardcove[S] 142 points143 points  (26 children)

I've found an overlap between those who hate on Tinder and those who use it, to those who are MGTOW.

If you are having success with Tinder, you aren't going to slam it and hate on it.

If you are having success with women and doing it right, you aren't going to go MGTOW.

The logical conclusion is that the anti-Tinder crowd are those who suck at it, and the MGTOW crowd are those who suck with women.

[–]michaelkc03 41 points42 points  (0 children)

You are spending your most precious resource (time) to take shirtless drone pics. Think about that. I’ll give props for the click bots...minus the try hard perfect pics.

While there are men who are MGTOW because they can’t laid, there are many more who do it because pussy is not the end all.

I’ll be damned if I’m going to those lengths for the vag.

Hate on MGTOW all you want, but for many men the amount of effort is simply not worth their time.

Health, wealth, happiness. Pussy is not the foundation of any of those. Often it’s a negative correlation (in my experience).

Your life though.

[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorRian_Stone 80 points81 points  (2 children)

Fuck, I like this guy, has a way with words

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (1 child)

He's very present, you can tell. Everything just flows out of him. Great state to be in.

[–]redditcensor_NAZIS 48 points49 points  (5 children)

Ah, classic “MGTOW just can’t get laid” line. For red pill guys you seem to use very feminine shaming lines.

I would say MGTOW guys can get laid easy and can be good with women, they usually make more money than the average redpiller but are on the older end of the spectrum and less inclined to put up with these hoops. I mean, look at this fucking guide. It's very good but it's not that crazy that a man would not want to do any of this just for pussy.

There is also a defined line of MGTOW that is ‘can’t get laid because bad with women’ and ‘definitely can and does get laid but will put in less effort than an average RPer”.

[–]Tenth_10 22 points23 points  (0 children)

Yep. You can be good with women, and do no want to do with them anymore. MGTOW is seen as something shameful here, where the real MGTOW is a deliberate choice to have more time for oneself and not chasing pussy after pussy. Il all depends of your frame.

[–]Your_Coke_Dealer 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Redpill and MGTOW have several commonalities, but one of them is a chunk of the user base which is frustrated posers. There are TRP adherents who abide by the sexual strategy and get laid while improving themselves, and there are MGTOW adherents who legitimately said “fuck it” and stopped gaming women. There are also anger-phase TRP posters who either think some pathetic ‘k-close’ is field report worthy or don’t get it and say it doesn’t work, as well as a collection of incels who say they’re MGTOW because it sounds better.

The posers give either ideology a bad name and often get stereotyped as the character of the ideology itself.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

It seems worth it to set up a tinder profile that does 90% of the work for you, forever. Its like setting up a fish net. The other 10% is: control the frame, use the "organic opener" he talks about, give her good emotions, and use her name. And when you meet up, do the same thing.

[–]meaningintragedy 23 points24 points  (6 children)

Your post is nice but this comment is ignorant. For many men, MGTOW means no LTR or marriage, it doesn't mean not fucking women.
Always amazed by some guys here having such a basic and binary view of MGTOW.

Try being open minded and turn down the "I am superior than you because I get women" attitude.

[–]blacklightsleaze 22 points23 points  (1 child)

So whats the difference between MGTOW the TRP then? Most guys here will avoid LTR and marriage and aim for spinning plates.

[–]guerilla_munk 19 points20 points  (3 children)

Indeed. All the effort you put into your frame, game and chasing puss, you could put in yourself, your career and making money. Want a great fuck, hire an escort for the night. You're paying them to leave. For me, it took so much time and effort to chase these non professional chameleons. But if you like day/night game and gets you results, so be it. Also, don't assume all MGTOW are monks and suck with women. I'm still considered chad material among all these soy boy faggots in the acamedia environment where I work and study. I have milfs and student workers flirt with me all day and could be stacking plates on the side. But would rather stack chips, achieve self actualization, travel internationally and fuck hotter women who are desperate for a greencard. Whatever I do won't come haunt me and immigration buffers them from ever seeing me again. That being said, it is a good guide for tinder. I recommend taking a professional picture in a suit. When I did that, I started matching with models and prettier gold diggers that I just pumped and dumped. If you put your mind to it, you can be a truly magnificent bastard.

[–]TheReformist94 3 points4 points  (0 children)

You can focus on other shit precisely because you know women already fancy you.

[–]riot2100 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Love the post, just like the above comment it is extremely logic driven and uses said logic to lay out all of the steps in an efficient manner. Your comment (and post) is literally bullshit free.

[–]alphamystic 2 points3 points  (5 children)

Mallardcove, Good guide. I have 1500 matches because of gym, professional camera and lightroom. How do i filter the dating types from the hookups? How do i stop the girls from wanting more. A strategy for better hookups? I have enough matches and time but most want to date..

[–]Endorsed Contributormallardcove[S] 7 points8 points  (4 children)

Its a hell of a lot easier to use Tinder for hookups than for dating. It's not that difficult, just do what you do and then ghost them after.

[–]84throwaway21 2 points3 points  (3 children)

I've got the opposite problem. I do well on tinder, average a new hookup each month but most girls seem to be looking for exactly that - just a hookup. How would you recommend changing my strategy to get girls who want to date too? I've got a topless photo (natural setting) as my profile photo - would you remove it entirely or just not have it as the 1st picture?

I'm not against hookups but am kinda sick of it and would like something more long-term, but perhaps my profile is incongruent with that. Thanks.

[–]Endorsed Contributormallardcove[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Generally ages 18-21 are hookup range

Ages 23-26 are dating range

Raise age ranges and vet the profiles you are looking at before swiping

[–]joner888 10 points11 points  (0 children)

I lift 5 Times a week . Have been for 2.5 years . Still i dont like tinder. You only get matches based on your pics , and if you are like me and never take any selfies and sucks at taking photos you are gonna have a hard time .

Maybe taking som pics with a DSLR camera would be good.

[–][deleted]  (5 children)


    [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    I don’t like meeting people from the internet Edit: and I also find that I would always have to be putting in the effort to message just to not end up actually meeting up. Now the RP side of me says to just not give a shit and let them put in the effort, but I find no one else does

    [–]Strike48 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Thats how it is brother. I don't mind the initial effort. I find that yeah, the effort is on you at first because these girls have so many options, but once they get a taste of how you are, you can start to retract. It's really fun to have girls chase you once they know you're a dope motherfucker.

    And if the initial effort leads nowhere then fuck it. I only pursue up to a certain point. If I'm not seeing some response back then I cut in and move on.

    [–]warthundersfw 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    My problem is I need good pictures but I haven’t bothered yet until I get to 15% body fat or below

    [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Keep droppin your % dude, its well worth the effort.

    [–]Store_Front_Door 25 points26 points  (0 children)


    Absolutely agree. All it took was one good picture of me holding a dog on a leash with forearm and bicep veins popping off to pop off my matches.

    [–]semislicktires 238 points239 points  (46 children)

    too much work just to date women under your league.

    [–]Endorsed Contributormallardcove[S] 66 points67 points  (3 children)

    It's really not a lot of work.

    You should already be lifting, dressing well, eating right, staying in shape, know how to flirt and communicate via text.

    The only effort here that is added is taking pictures. So you take a few hours out of a few day to go take some good pictures. Oh no, so much effort.

    [–]Kindredvodka 155 points156 points  (19 children)

    To be honest. I agree. Its not even the fact that the poster below said its not too much work. Just from a simple cost/benefit the shit is bananas on tinder. I have no problem getting matches numbers but heres the thing, so many girls use this just for validation. You checked out the competition and its shitty, so what? Tinder amplifies the beta problem because it cuts out the middle man of the billy beta having to put his balls on the chopping block and approach in person, now he just swipes right on EVERY GIRL. It also amplifies how expensive pussy is in society right now. (Maybe that bubble will never pop)

    I matched with a girl one time who was a solid 6 who decided to buy Tinder Gold for shits n giggles. She had, no shit, 3000 right swipes in her queue. How long would you have to work to become a TOP MALE TO GET 3,000 SWIPES? Think about that, all the trouble you just put into your profile and body to get a right swipe from Single Mom Becky and she has 3,000 men waiting in the wings.

    So now you're saying "well so what she wont fuck all those guys, be that chad that she fucks!" Okay and you do. But before that in Becky's situation she just boned an 8 who was bored and wanted some take out puss and she was an easy lay but in her mind and ego/hamster that shit gets eaten up and now she is a SOLID 10 in her head. Now the next dude who comes along (you) will have to try even harder with all the bullshit pickup lines and witty comments while she just sits there spilling her starbucks unicorn crappe all over herself deciding if she wants to respond or not. Sure guys get laid off of tinder and sure some people don't try enough but all this work for a MOST LIKELY (for the guys who put enough work into this bullshit) a one digit percentage success rate?

    Just because you put so much work into this objectively shitty app isn't going to flip the fact that it is a buyers market on its head. I just find I could be doing better things with my life like real life pickup instead of fighting the current of thousands of billy betas giving these girls constant dopamine shots directly to her brain.

    [–]blacklightsleaze 21 points22 points  (0 children)

    I fuck only average girls on tinder and never ever fucked a hot one, because hot girls already have a lot of options IRL and they are tinder for the lulz or for instagram followers. If someone is fucking hot girls on tinder he must with Chadish.

    [–]guerilla_munk 37 points38 points  (3 children)

    Worded magnificently Sir. I came to this conclusion years ago. It led to me becoming an international monger. Believe it or not, professional whores generally take better care of themselves and if you are upfront with them, all business. I've had better sex with them than any party girl, date or random hookup. I tell them I need to cum 4 times, and they take care of me. Most regular will want to throw in the towel after you bust once or twice.

    [–]jonivaio 16 points17 points  (2 children)

    In what time span you are able to cum 4 times?

    [–]guerilla_munk 6 points7 points  (0 children)

    Through out the late night over 3 -4 hours. On average, I have sex with most chicks 2-3 times at night, and then once or twice in the morning before I kick them out.

    [–]Koryphae_ 8 points9 points  (0 children)

    I kinda agree, real men should not even use Tinder since it is just contributing to the problem of overall flaws with current SMP.

    [–]Narcissist456 6 points7 points  (0 children)

    This was so well written. Hit the nail right on the head.

    [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (3 children)

    If your offline game is shit, what other option do you have?

    [–]AllgBeamtenrecht 23 points24 points  (0 children)

    work on you offline game maybe?

    [–]Kindredvodka 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    If your offline game is shit then online game probably won't improve your chances. Because now you have to capture her attention and compete with ALL of her prospects within a one hundred mile radius..

    [–]MotiMorphosys 2 points3 points  (2 children)

    I don't feel like this is a solid argument because you could make it for cold approach pickup or any other type of game. Because of our culture and the red pill stuff that we all know, any average looking girl has a lineup of dudes waiting to Bone her. Tinder is no different. I've landed many a date with girls that would be considered "out of my league" on Tinder and bumble. And yeah, it did take me a while to come through a ton of pictures to cherry-pick the best ones. But I'd say it was worth it.

    [–]chrisname 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    I get what you're saying but IMO if you're doing TRP correctly you should have everything you need to go on tinder and get matches, with the possible exception of the pictures. Think about it: you should already be lifting, have a life filled with fun adventures, have nice clothes, plenty of friends, and the social savvy to write a decent profile and messages. There shouldn't be anything new to learn or do just for tinder. You will probably have the pictures already too - you should have holiday pictures and pictures of you doing cool things for your own sake, so you can look back on a life well lived when you're old.

    All you have to do is upload the 6 best pictures and swipe for 5 minutes a day. Then it's just business as usual when a girl bites.

    [–]SpaceEnthusiast 27 points28 points  (2 children)

    Too much work? Which part exactly? Reading this? Lifting, looking better, buying better clothes, taking some good photos?

    Most of this stuff will improve your SMV in daygame/nightgame too! So you're not really losing anything by doing this. I have some photos that I've put not only on my Tinder profile but also on my facebook profile and my instagram page. And all of this gets more attention towards me, bringing more women into my world. So even the photos are not useless.

    [–]bannedfromWTFmod 15 points16 points  (0 children)

    This right here.

    Im 34 and 1.5 year ago I got out of a 4 year ltr & smoked weed all the time and wondered why I couldn't get anywhere with girls IRL since I was use to being in a relationship and not having to use game anymore to get what I wanted.

    TRP + Dating apps and I'm fucking on the regular, not exactly the prime tail I use to get but whatever. Better than nothing and all the failed attempts are just speeding me up to how the game is now.

    Point is, I'm much happier, almost drug/substance free w/ no help , no addiction to porn and I'm 10000x more confident now because before I couldn't even hold eye contact with my last SO & now I dress my best always, walk tall and own the conversations I engage in while doing little to no work.

    [–]Greek-God-Brody 6 points7 points  (0 children)

    Yeah. You should do them as part of your identity. Dress well by default, not just for Tinder photos. Take the pictures for your social media presence first, and Tinder second.

    [–]good_guy_submitter 12 points13 points  (16 children)

    too much work

    Said no great man ever. However being great isnt the goal here. Smashing as much puss as possible is.

    [–]semislicktires 42 points43 points  (12 children)

    As a 7 (face) and an 8 (body) i'd rather masturbate than smash a 5. I have some self respect and standards. I'd rather meet a 7 in real life and put work into her.

    [–]guerilla_munk 28 points29 points  (0 children)

    I agree. I have seen so many my fellow studs fuck some below average chick, only to get her knocked up and have to spend the rest of his life with her in some way. I only fuck 7 and ups. Would rather masturbate than fuck a ugly girl that does not take care of herself.

    [–]3LiveAFTSOV 6 points7 points  (3 children)

    What's wrong with 5 and 6? They aren't ugly. Just okay, and cute

    [–]atifhere 17 points18 points  (0 children)

    Nothing wrong. Just some self respect. If a man have gone through so much trouble of self improvement and taking actions to become an 8, then what did the 5 and 6 do to deserve even his slightest attention? An 8 is called an 8 because he can be exponentially more pickier than the people below 8. By being less picky, he is ruining his worth.

    And sex is more about validation than a releasing cum method. If a man knows he can easily get a 5 or 6 if he wants to, then he is already validated, and the risks and efforts of doing sex with her will be outweighing the pleasure he will be getting.

    [–]semislicktires 8 points9 points  (0 children)

    Nothing wrong with their looks, its their mindset. A 5 on Tinder thinks differently than a 5 on the street. The Tinder 5 gets hundreds of Likes on tinder from thirsty betas, therefore starts thinking shes not a 5 anymore.

    [–]7mile_ 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Not everyone has the same standards. Some people will smash just about anything. Some want girls to the same or above their league. It's just a matter of preference

    [–][deleted]  (1 child)


      [–]newName543456 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      Plenty of great guys said this.

      Isn't it a maxim here not just to work hard but also to work smart?

      [–]tmv4 60 points61 points  (3 children)

      This might be the best tinder guide yet. Bravo my dude 👏

      [–]Endorsed Contributormallardcove[S] 38 points39 points  (2 children)

      Not trying to brag, but I just wanted it to be thorough

      I've seen Tinder guides and strategy posted on TRP subs before. I think all of them have good points, but all of them have some things I disagree with, and for the most part are not thorough enough.

      You can't run any kind of game without getting matches. To get matches you need to have good pictures. Really needed to emphasize how important quality pictures are. Most guides don't touch on this enough.

      I've successfully used Tinder in 4 different cities throughout the United States, have a lot of experience with it. Just going off what works and what doesn't. I almost swore off Tinder like everyone else at first. I knew I had good enough looks but was getting no matches. I thought it was because Tinder was screwing me and the girls on it were shallow/only looking for valiadation but in reality its because my pictures sucked. Bad lighting, bad poses, bad quality, bad settings, bad locations, bad facial expressions, bad aesthetics, bad framing, bad editing, you name it. I uploaded 6 good quality pictures and it was like I activated some kind of cheat code. I couldn't keep up with the matches.

      Tinder is a lot more fun when you are having to curate your loads of matches yourself rather than getting a match or two and hoping/praying something comes of it.

      [–]pizzarulzz 15 points16 points  (2 children)

      This much hard work just to get girls

      [–]yotheman 14 points15 points  (2 children)

      In Mexico City, Tinder is like an horror movie, all are HB0, fat and very ugly... Someone will be very lucky if can swipe to right one time in 10K. In the street you will find mostly the same monsters you get on Tinder but a bit better than Tinder.

      [–]greenlittleman 6 points7 points  (0 children)

      I really don't understand your standpoint because for me it is enough to stroll for 20 minutes on the main street of my city to find 10-20 of 7-9/10 girls. Maybe this is because I live in Russia? But most likely you just have strange standards. From what I see among young 16-22 years old girls only about 25-35% are ugly or too fat and others are more or less cute.

      [–]paprikk 3 points4 points  (0 children)

      Man, what?

      Mexico City popped my Tinder cherry. I never used it before, then I heard this american dude who was kinda ugly talking about how he had a Tinder date, and I decided to give it a go.

      It was incredible. I had like 20+ matches with cute girls. Ended up going out with this sexy little 20yo the whole 2 weeks I was there. Damn, now I miss her. Latinas are the best.

      Anyway, that aside, may I ask your race? I'm white and blonde and I can't imagine doing poorly in CDMX with that ethnicity.

      [–]XCKCX 22 points23 points  (0 children)

      ELO doesn’t matter if you live in a smaller city where you’ll eventually get to everyone anyway.

      [–]3r2s4A4q 22 points23 points  (0 children)

      imagine if you put this much effort into your career

      [–]gerryjtierney 19 points20 points  (1 child)

      Step 1 - Be handsome Step 2 - Don't be ugly

      [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

      Not hard to accomplish step 2 with even minimal effort imo. Step 1 is where you see the difference between minimal effort and loads of it.

      [–]Andgelyo 28 points29 points  (7 children)

      Didn’t read the whole thing, you may or may have said this, but tinder is also heavily dependent on location. You take someone who lifts, takes care of themselves, and has abs, and with a nice haircut and put them in middle of nowhere bumblefuck and they would slay. Put them in New York City where literally every dude is fresh and they would struggle.

      [–]MotiMorphosys 14 points15 points  (1 child)

      Actually, if you put anyone in a hick-town, you will notice that the quality of girls there plummets. They're all fat. I live in a more hick area of Florida and took a trip to LA earlier this year. You wouldn't believe how the demographic changed and the quality of the matches went up. Tinder is gold in big cities.

      [–]Andgelyo 3 points4 points  (0 children)

      Not necessarily true, I guess it’s all relative. When I lived in rural and suburban Massachusetts the girls were a lot prettier and feminine than where I was from (NY/NJ). Back here, girls are stuck up, fat, and or post wall.

      [–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

      In that case NYC has a shit ton options to go real offline, no need to use Tinder there.

      [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (3 children)

      Lol are you insane? You have it literally backwards. Tinder doesn’t work at all in low density areas. It’s gold in cities.

      [–]Andgelyo 4 points5 points  (2 children)

      Not my experience at all dude. The quality of girls were a lot higher in MA. NYC has quantity, you could easily bang hundreds of whales here if you wanted. The higher value women here just want attention.

      [–]Elendili3 8 points9 points  (3 children)

      What to open on girls with no bio and nothing interesting in their photos to comment on?

      [–]Endorsed Contributormallardcove[S] 7 points8 points  (1 child)

      Probably a bot profile. Abundance, move onto other matches

      [–]SpaceEnthusiast 17 points18 points  (0 children)

      No, that's simply not true. I've seen a lot of attractive girls on there with simple photos and no description. A lot of them I've also seen IRL at clubs and whatnot.

      [–][deleted]  (1 child)


      [–]KingSol24 7 points8 points  (0 children)

      90% of Tinder success is having good attractive photos. After that you just need to have some basic text game and set up a meet.

      [–]uniqueusernamex112 7 points8 points  (0 children)

      i can respect the hustle, but the effort for some thrid grade pussy is ridiculous. i would rather just focus on self improvement..

      [–]Epinhs 13 points14 points  (0 children)

      TLDR: you eat like shit, you’re not lifting enough, you’re not as special as you Fucking think you are. STFU, HTFU AND TRAIN.

      I never knew how bad I was fucking up until I had one of my girls show me hers. I thought I was smashing and then started seeing the competition for the range I was working in and I realized I wasn’t lifting enough and eating like shit even compared to how I was. Doubled down on Ketogains and lifting harder. Began focusing on that as an elevated priority. The girl I was hanging with was still all about me but she had even better prospects in waves. Gotta be better to be different than the “standard” wave.

      [–]willowhawk 5 points6 points  (1 child)

      I've experienced girls who we've probably messaged back and forth about 10 messages but over the course of a week or two and ended up going out/smashing.

      What's your take on that? Why would they still be interested over a week when they get so many matches, they where all attractive with one being very attractive

      [–]Endorsed Contributormallardcove[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

      Boredom. You were her best option

      [–]Paladin2903 21 points22 points  (11 children)

      I’ll give you guys a better strategy.....grow some fucking BALLS and ask women out in person.

      You wanna know why modern girls are such bitchy, cunty, egotistical maniacs?? Because of apps like Tinder. That’s why.

      It’s the simple law of supply and demand. They are able to act like bitches because they know their value is so unbelievably high — even though it’s artificially inflated.

      You guys using these apps only makes it harder for yourselves in the long run. You’re the enablers.

      I mean this in the best way possible, you guys really need to re-evaluate your lives if it’s taking this much work to get women on an app.

      It’s easier taking the bar exam than putting all this shit into action. And the saddest part about this statement is, I’m not even slightly kidding.

      Women have priced themselves out of the market. The sooner you guys recognize that, get some self-control, and stop playing their games and jumping through their hoops, the sooner a market correction can begin.

      [–]Endorsed Contributormallardcove[S] 27 points28 points  (6 children)

      It's almost like you can do both.

      You guys are so damn predictable. You are acting like you can only do one of dating apps or night/day game, you can't possibly do both.

      Oh wait, your an MGTOW regular. Makes total sense. You can't get women period, so you are shitting on guys who do like a typical MGTOW loser does. Incel MGTOW morons have really shit up this sub.

      [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      That paladin dude is insane. He sent me a rambling PM telling to stop breeding and he wouldn’t listen to me because I don’t get upvotes lol. I mean you can just tell from the writing, he really might have some mental issues.

      [–]Paladin2903 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      And not enough balls to reply directly? Surprising. I swear, this sub has truly gone to shit.

      Just a bunch of pansy-ass, cowardly, chicken shit beta males, that like to fling shit and don’t expect anything in return.

      Maybe you should clue the audience in as to why I said that to you. Of course, you conveniently leave that out.

      [–][deleted]  (3 children)


        [–]MotiMorphosys 7 points8 points  (1 child)

        Found the guy who didn't read the last line.

        [–]modTheRedPike[M] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        The disk sizing ends or I'm going on a rampage.

        [–]thewrecker8 5 points6 points  (2 children)

        Yoy know a chick who got married last year. Its still on Bumble abd claims she hasn't been on there since 2015.... And you believe her?

        Why wouldn't she just delete her pics?

        [–]Endorsed Contributormallardcove[S] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

        Bumble purposely doesn't delete inactive accounts so they can inflate their membership counts.

        [–]thewrecker8 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        So why wouldn't she pull as much of her identity off it herself? How hard is it to go to her profile and click on a few "x" to delete her puctures.

        [–]Vicimin10 9 points10 points  (2 children)

        I'm kind of at the crossroads where I can not decide whether this approach is smart or pathetic. Fake posing for tinder is like competing and winning in the paralympics for the mentally challenged. On one hand yay for you, on the other it seems like there are more dignified ways to get sex.

        [–]zilti 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        I'd definitely go with "pathetic".

        [–]Austish 7 points8 points  (6 children)

        I mean, OP isn't wrong. It's just a bunch of muts who are mostly unsucessesful, and have some BORING ass pickup lines and pictures. I match with maybe 5 girls a day and out of those 5, 2 are bots, 2 are 6/10s at best, and 1 of them is hard 7. Problem is, after 2 messages with these girls, they just quit messaging. I'm not putting in all this bullshit, time-consuming work to fight against some plain ass kids trying to get laid. When I go on tinder (which isn't too often) I'll use it for a max of 15 mins and then that's it. I'm not going to put hours of work just to match with some decent looking girl, when I can just go out and get with plenty more women, who aren't all in their little tinder bubble (making it much easier, quicker and to the point) and these women irl just shit on these tinder girls in comparison to looks and personality. What I'm saying is tinder is a validation site for some okay-at-best looking women who think they are the next Cardi B just because a bunch of people jerked off to their profile pictures. I'm not a huge fan of tinder, I use it for shits and giggles, but if I'm trying to actually get laid, I'm going the quicker and easier route; Bars, Diners, Sports Events, etc. Girls might be amazing and all that shit, but once they hop on tinder they only want 1 thing: Attention/Valadation. I've gotten laid off of tinder maybe 3 times in the past 3 years. When I'm away from tinder and doing shit in real life, I've gotten laid 6 times in the past 3 years. Idk about you guys, but I'd rather get serious about relationships where I can actually get laid with them at the end in real life instead of a one-sided, boring conversation on Tinder.

        [–]Endorsed Contributormallardcove[S] 13 points14 points  (1 child)

        Problem is, after 2 messages with these girls, they just quit messaging.

        You weren't their top option anymore. Period. Welcome to the red pill reality.

        As far as your soapboxing, you realize you can do both Tinder AND day/night game? WOW! Groundbreaking stuff, huh?

        [–]Austish 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        Lmao, that's the whole point of the post. And WOW? NO shit? There's a night and day choice for tinder? Dude, re read the post, because it's clear you didn't see my point and are just trying to show off in front of other redditors. If you are looking to develop positive relationships and get laid, it takes a hell of a lot less effort in the real world than on tinder. Or, you can keep using tinder, I don't care. I'm just informing people that Tinder is not really worth all your time and money

        [–]spiceb0ss 2 points3 points  (3 children)

        getting laid 6 times in 3 years woah we got a red pill god here

        [–]NewHerePlsDontBully 2 points3 points  (1 child)

        If you want an easy lay the best pic to have is you on a horse. You will get endless girls swiping right on you.

        The downside is that 99% of them will be completely nuts (thats just the way horse girls are), but im a firm believer that every dude should smash a batshit crazy chick at least once.

        [–]t-away3 3 points4 points  (2 children)

        I just wanna know what made you want to take the time to write all this...do you secretly work for tinder?

        [–]Endorsed Contributormallardcove[S] 10 points11 points  (1 child)

        Its called downtime at work and being bored to death

        [–]Temptationn 5 points6 points  (6 children)

        another way to get easy lays is to display your SMV via instagram and messaging them on there. Almost every girl has their insta in there and most of the time I don’t match with the girls I want to smash so I’ll message on insta, they get to see all my photos and we usually end up meeting the same night

        [–]Endorsed Contributormallardcove[S] 13 points14 points  (1 child)

        Instagram has to be bullet proof though. Not saying you are wrong.

        [–]3LiveAFTSOV 11 points12 points  (0 children)

        Make a guide about that bro

        [–]1TRUEKING 7 points8 points  (0 children)

        i would like a guide on gaining clout on instagram

        [–]abyoosthroughaweigh 0 points1 point  (2 children)

        I’m going to Scandinavia for a year. Should I make an Instagram? I’ve got a DSLR and I plan on getting an iPhone X for the photo quality.

        [–]Temptationn 2 points3 points  (1 child)

        Yeah do it up! travel photos are the best it shows you’re not boring

        [–]abyoosthroughaweigh 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        I don’t know how to take pics without looking like a faggot. Any advice?

        Also, what’s exciting about travel pics? It’s just a plane ride to another country. Anyone can do it, just takes some money and a suitcase.

        [–][deleted]  (4 children)


        [–]Zoltiel 3 points4 points  (1 child)

        I hear it's harder if you're a young guy since women tend to go for men older than them.

        [–]royer44 2 points3 points  (1 child)

        Very well done walkthrough. Though I'm still wondering why during specific months i get 30 matches and in other months i get like no matches at all with the exact same pics.

        [–]Endorsed Contributormallardcove[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

        You aren't being put at the top of stacks

        [–]troutmask96 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        Bro, I have questions.

        I'm newish on Tinder and have been disappointed with my matches. Now, I'm not Brad Pitt but I think I'm a solid 7/10 and have concluded that my pics suck (which they kinda do). I'm planning to train hard to bulk up and lose ten pounds and then contract with a local starving photographer who specializes in social media photos, which is gonna cost me an easy hundred bucks.

        My question is this: how does my ELO score that I've accumulated with all my shitty pics effect my presence once I launch with all my new pics? Do gals who have previously swiped left on me not see "the new me", and should I therefore deactivate and reactivate my account once I'm ready for launch to refresh my ELO stature?

        [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (2 children)

        The tinder bashing makes me think that average n count of the guys on TRP might be a bit lower than we’re led to believe, because I don’t really know anyone that can’t get laid on tinder.

        [–]zilti 3 points4 points  (0 children)

        Back when I was reasonably fit, I was on Tinder for almost two years and got zero matches with real women. Ok I actually had 6, but 4 unmatched right away and two just never wrote back. No, my pics didn't suck. Not worth the hassle. Especially not with the algorithm changes.

        [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        Saved. I've never tried online dating but this is an excellent guide

        [–]JeweliusCaesar 3 points4 points  (1 child)

        This is a good guide, but like others have said, Tinder has just become too much work.

        It took a turn for the worst when women started to co-opt it and slowly changed it from a straight up hook up app to something they could use secure commitment and accumulate beta orbiters. They changed the whole frame dynamic of what it was supposed to be.

        [–]RedGunnera 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Thanks for this guide. I really liked how specific you were in what pictures were required and how they should be taken, as that is clearly the most important skill in using tinder.

        [–]VillagersUnite 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        I'm glad you explained this in great detail actually. Though j probably won't use it as i despise taking pictures. Always have. But its good to know that on those apps that's all they care about really.

        [–]Luckyluke23 1 point2 points  (1 child)

        ok... right now on tinder.. i have 2 matches and they arent talking to me... I got these matches AGES go.

        I am going to try to give this guy ago. give it a week and see what happens...

        I will post results later... ( Please note: expect results to be 0. I'm not good looking, though I do lift I'm not at the right bf % yet. ( though i have lost 6kgs in the past like month)

        [–]vicious_armbar 1 point2 points  (2 children)

        Would you recommend resetting your profile to get the noob boost instead of paying for a tinder boost that only lasts 30 mins?

        [–][deleted]  (6 children)


        [–]alphamystic 2 points3 points  (3 children)

        Rabies, you have the face for it. Do this, you will thank me 100x times.

        Buy a halo ringlight for about €5-10 from aliexpress or whatever. Perfect lighting, everywhere.

        [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

        From what I can tell, you mount it on a desk? I wouldn’t see it working for outdoor pics. It looks like a really good buy just for the one or two selfies I’ll have though, cheers for the info.

        [–]alphamystic 3 points4 points  (1 child)

        No bro, it's a ringlight clip for your phone. Just a few bucks. I assume you are using snapchat too? Works wonders. Here is the difference for selfies with an example of a women.


        You got about the same look as me, try this and watch your matches reach hundreds in no time.

        [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        That does seem very useful actually, will make a note of it.

        [–]Endorsed Contributormallardcove[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

        You can still get high quality pics with a top of the line cell phone these days. You just have to know what you are doing and have it on a tripod or someone behind the camera.

        [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        I’m using an iPhone 5 atm, I’ll see if I can scrape up some cash for a better one. It’s all very exciting isn’t it, getting the aesthetics sorted out, gym, fashion, camera etc; it’s a great goal to set myself.

        [–]dumbkidaccount 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        I Was doing good until step 11 loll

        [–]dix2long 1 point2 points  (1 child)

        One easy way I've found to be picky with your swipes: if they use those stupid Snapchat filters as their first picture. So she's caked in makeup AND a warping filter? And that's the first thing I see? If she doesn't like the way she looks, why should I?

        [–]Izakthegreat23 1 point2 points  (2 children)

        So just to clarify, you have to use an actual camera? It can’t be a iPhone camera? (I don’t know much about camera quality)

        [–]Endorsed Contributormallardcove[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

        iPhone Cameras are fine if you know how to get the most out of them, but if you have the means its not a bad idea to go with a better camera

        [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

        Thank you. I love you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. THANK YOU!!!! it's been 2 days and i have 20 matches, several likes and 1 superlike and I've only done 1/10 of the things you've posted here. Its almost like the walkthrough to a game, except instead of winning virtual nothing-ness, you win real pussy. Thank you.

        [–]Odimorsus 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        I'm not a fan of this sub generally but I am glad you made this. I couldn't agree more about people shitting on tinder. It's not the apps fault if your bio and photos are not up to scratch and have no success. I met my wifey on there and had a great time with it before that too. There are a number of things that can make or break a profile.

        [–]lagerea 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        I'm going to throw out the usual advice for young guys. Get a job at a bar or club, I've been in the game for 12 years, nickels to dimes flirt with me all night to this day. So maybe your not the best looking guy in the world but in that environment, your value is obvious which to girl brain equals situation utility. It's not hard to go from the guy she flirts with to feel safe to the guy she doesn't feel safe without.

        [–]llwilderll 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        In response to step 12, I've found that I have an +80% rate when I give MY number to the girl rather than ask for hers. After I pick up on her IOI's or when it feels natural, I'll shoot her a message like "Hey ______, you should text me. ###". Works wonders.

        Great post! Well spoken and thorough. Keep it up

        [–]neo10neo 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Everyone says Tinder is only for hooking up: while you get a nice number of matches, I've made an account with model and/or high quality pics- and chicks still ignore (definitely less than 10% attempts are successful at getting her straight over), go cold and block you (this was going fairly direct- trying to get to come over without explicitly mentioning sex by around the 5th message the latest). I can't imagine what it's like for average-looking guys and/or guys with no game.
        While I've had chicks come over fresh direct and make it easy- there have even been girls who come straight over, nothing happens and you never see them again. Many women on are on these apps for validation.

        [–]wes_hightow3r 6 points7 points  (2 children)

        Thanks for the summary. Time to up my picture game and start screening before the swipe rather than after. FWIW, currently I'm just using one selfie that accentuates my broad shoulders (clothed) where I'm smiling big with "Tall (6'7"), Dark (sense of humor) and Handsome (if my mother is to be trusted)" as the only line in my bio. Have f-closed twice in about 4 months with minimal effort just following RP advice, not crushing it but starting to crack the code. A chubby 4 I could have plated, but why, and a hot little asian mom (meh) that at least worked out/had a tight ass that I tried to plate and failed. The 4 picked up a $100+ bar tab we racked up getting smashed on whiskey, so that was fun. For shits and giggles I switched my picture to me flexing shirtless in a mirror BUT the picture was taken by my only plate (so not really a plate but is treated as such), also visible in the picture. Bio: "Doing just fine w/out ya." It got matches...mostly very large AA women. Not my thing. I'm not jacked at all but easily top 20% in build, bald and 38. Been reading this stuff about a year, and actually working it for 6 months. Figured I'd finally say something.

        [–]Endorsed Contributormallardcove[S] 11 points12 points  (1 child)

        Why are you even bothering to swipe right on such low value women?

        [–]wes_hightow3r 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        I was just swiping right on everything and screening after. Going to try your approach from here on out. Just banged out the 4 for the novelty of it and to practice game. I'm not a total Chad yet.

        [–]munashe13 3 points4 points  (3 children)

        I share the same views with you, but I always feel like - to what end would I be willing to do all of this for.

        I mean, I like the company of women just as much as the next guy - but DAMN all of this so off-putting.

        [–]Endorsed Contributormallardcove[S] 22 points23 points  (2 children)

        Red Pill: Everything in life worth having takes effort.

        [–]munashe13 3 points4 points  (1 child)

        I supposed it depends on whether or not you view the effort of trying to get women through Tinder as worth it.

        Like I said, I agree with you and what you said and I would definitely take the pro-active approach you've stated towards using dating apps - but I guess I'm content living my life atm without jumping through all of these hoops.

        [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        To some extent I agree with you, yes.

        [–]totallya_russianbot 5 points6 points  (2 children)

        Ya know, banging some random hoe who is also banging a bunch of other random fags, doesn't make you "red pilled", just makes you another cuck on the cuck-carousel.

        [–]Endorsed Contributormallardcove[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

        I guess we're all cucks then.

        [–]sebass1223 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        There’s no difference from going to the bar, you think they get less dick there?

        [–]dannnnyyyyyyy 3 points4 points  (1 child)

        I have to disagree I only have like 3 pics all shirtless and get hundreds of matches & I don’t even message most.

        [–]Endorsed Contributormallardcove[S] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

        Never said shirtless pics don't get matches. I am saying that there are some women out there who won't swipe them no matter what, and it works better for hookups vs. something a bit more long term.

        [–][deleted]  (5 children)


        [–]Endorsed Contributormallardcove[S] 6 points7 points  (1 child)

        Oh wow look another Incel MGTOW loser posting here. Go back to your incel sub, errr, I mean, MGTOW sub and leave this sub to guys actually trying to get women.

        [–]circlingldn 7 points8 points  (2 children)

        cope, if you were getting hot girls off tinder, you wouldnt be saying that lol

        [–]JagsDontCare 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        My last girlfriend was a Warriors cheerleader. You don't know shit.

        [–]Rollo_Mayhem3 1 point2 points  (4 children)

        I have approximately 456 matches in my queue. What would you recommend I do? I generally just swiped right massively and used boost and only pursued the ones that would respond to my overt sexual advance. thoughts?

        [–]Endorsed Contributormallardcove[S] 5 points6 points  (3 children)

        Find the 10 matches you are most interested in and open all of them. Take it from there. Don't be overtly sexual at the beginning.

        This is where Tinder Gold comes into play for me. I pick the 5 best out of those who have already liked me and open them. That way I can move at my own pace and not match with a girl until I am ready to open them. If none of the 5 work out, I then pick the next best, and then the next best, until I get something concrete.

        [–]Rollo_Mayhem3 1 point2 points  (2 children)

        I agree. I've left some in the queue until I knew I had time that day or night to pursue them. I've been so busy that they just accumulate, and I was smart enough not to open them...

        [–]Endorsed Contributormallardcove[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

        Tinder is all about momentum. If you match with someone and let it sit there for a while, she will have moved onto other guys by the time you do something.

        That is why I like gold, I can get the ball rolling on my schedule.

        [–]Winterpreter 1 point2 points  (1 child)

        This is quite amusing I'll give you that but who the hell needs a guide to get Tinder thots? Used the app during a month with 1 shit pic on tinder, got laid 3 times cuz of it, they were thots I didn't want to meet again, stopped using any social/dating apps

        [–]Endorsed Contributormallardcove[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

        Why does it matter? I've seen a bunch of posts here lately about guys hating on Tinder because its not working for them. I wrote a guide on what you need to do to succeed. If after having read this guide you are still failing then you can criticize it all you want but chances are you're just ugly.

        [–]ahmadbeik 1 point2 points  (2 children)

        All of this just to get girls? Is it worth it?

        [–]Endorsed Contributormallardcove[S] 7 points8 points  (1 child)

        You clowns are acting like you have to finish an Ironman Triathalon

        You should already be lifting, eating well, staying in shape, knowing how to talk to women, etc.

        The only effort that is additional here is getting 6 good pictures. That's it.

        [–]ahmadbeik 3 points4 points  (0 children)

        Clowns? Are you autistic Just asking a normal question Your masochism is showing Swearing to be sweared at You probably get off to that

        [–]inlovewithyourmother 0 points1 point  (3 children)

        Great post. I've been successful with tinder and bumble as well and I agree with almost everything. The main thing I do differently is that I just swipe right on everyone. It's not worth the time and effort to look at each profile and swipe. Plus tinder is perfect for swiping quickly. It's buttery smooth compared to bumble. If I had to take a wild guess, I'd say 99 percent of guys just swipe right on everyone anyway. I filter out the hotties after I match.

        [–]Endorsed Contributormallardcove[S] 7 points8 points  (2 children)

        The problem with doing this is you are tanking your ELO score. Because each time you swipe right on an ugly, your ELO score goes down since you were willing to swipe right on an ugly.

        A lower ELO score means less chances for you to be shown to the more attractive women. Women don't swipe nearly as much as men do. Since the attractive ones are going to match on almost everyone they swipe right on anyway, she isn't going to go through as many profiles. Meaning, its more important to try to show up at the top of her stack.

        The order you are shown profiles is not random.

        [–]inlovewithyourmother 4 points5 points  (1 child)

        Right but my point is because almost all guys swipe right anyway, it's harder for tinder to accurately rate which girls are hot in the first place. I'm just playing the numbers game. And even if I come up as lower rated and I'm not shown to the 9s and 10s as often, I'm still okay banging 7s and 8s since they're more realistic matches for me anyway and that's just being real.

        [–]Omnibrad 6 points7 points  (0 children)

        Swiping right on the toilet = maximize time.

        Pick and choose which ones to swipe = maximize Tinder performance.

        Tinder is a nice tool for me, but I don’t need to maximize the tool. The tool saves me time. Spending too much time on it feels like putting the cart before the horse.

        [–]vicious_armbar 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        The Drone Approach. This is personally the approach I have used over the past year to amazing results.

        The Rise Of The Narcissicopter

        [–]unnecessarilycurses 0 points1 point  (1 child)

        The drone idea sounds really interesting. I've never used one before and have a few questions.

        So do you like get it to hover and take pictures while you put the the dorky looking controller out of the frame? Can you set it to circle/follow you do to moving shots?

        What kind of shots/locations in particular work well with the drone that make it worth the extra cost over a tripod? Like are you doing overhead shots a lot? Shots at the edge of a ledge?

        If I have an entry level DSLR (actually a newer more compact mirrorless type) would it make more sense to get a drone that I can attach my existing camera to rather than paying for one with another camera?

        [–]Endorsed Contributormallardcove[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        I put the controller out of the frame.

        I usually just have it hover in a location, set the interval timer, take some pics and then review the pictures, if I like it I take more in the same spot, if not I move it to another angle

        I've done the tripod and drone approach, the best part about the drone for me is being able to see in real time how the picture is framed on my phone, even though I have a phone remote controller for my phone, its a pain to have to move the tripod. Moving the drone is basically like moving a tripod but so much easier.

        I don't recommend buying a drone unless you will get more out of it than just taking pictures of yourself.

        load more comments (61 replies)