891
892

Men's RightsAdvice after 26 years with a borderline (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by adam142857

Reposted after having been taken down for not having a flair. Some addenda at the top.

TL;DR 53 yo successful white male from UK offers advice on spotting a woman with BPD (borderline personality disorder) or similar symptoms. Avoid these women. Mate selection: women change; expect bad features to worsen with age. Bad post-natal depression is a sign of far worse to come at menopause. A peri-menopausal borderline is a monster who will try to destroy you. Child-rearing: keep it simple. In gynocentric Western culture, you're probably a better influence on your children if separated from their mother by the time they're about 13. Love: don't be fooled, it's just chemicals. Women can be good or bad, try figuring them out instead, and if you're looking for an LTR, pick a good one. Never get married. Divorce is stacked so heavily against men, it's not worth the risk. BUT, divorce--if you're resourceful and as cunning as she will undoubtedly be--may be the best thing that ever happens to you. Women stick together no matter what, never ask them for relationship advice. TRP/MGTOW/alpha-beta is a workable and useful guide in contemporary Western culture. Uncultivated alphas are not men but animals, and women love them. Which tells you yet more about women, if you needed to know. The West is in a poor state, and it's up to men to solve it, by starting with themselves. With or without a spiritual teaching, it is possible for a man to make his life meaningful and profound. I may respond to the odd comment, but basically, readers should view the following as take-it-or-leave-it advice. Here goes:

I have been familiarising myself with TRP/MGTOW/alpha-beta theory over the past year, four years after ending a 26-year relationship with a borderline wife. I am older and more experienced than most of the contributors here, so I hope readers can benefit. About me: I’m a 53 yo white man from the UK. I have three amazing children aged 16, 19 and 22. I travel all over the world with and without my children for three months per year, and ski for three months-plus per year. I am in great physical shape, run a half-marathon every week outside the ski season, and lift three times per week. I’ve been in a spiritual teaching for nearly 20 years. I have a high six-figure net worth measured in US dollars, and own a profitable business that only requires me to work two days a week. Not seriously wealthy, but good SMV/MMV. I don’t want to boast, but I do want readers to understand that this is not a post from some bitter loser.

Although the story of my relationship with my ex could easily fill a novel-sized memoir, here’s some bullet point guidance that resulted from my experiences.

Spotting a borderline. Well documented online, but worth repeating: If she exhibits emotional lability, mimicking you in clothing and mannerisms, has fraught interpersonal relationships, psychological crises, cooks up friction and arguments out of nothing, constantly changes her mind etc., end it immediately. Close off all contact. The first “tell” for my ex was a series of mysterious but minor ailments that no doctor could ever diagnose, followed by a series of psychological crises. To her mind, I was always somehow the cause of all of them. Why did I stay with her? Borderlines are good in bed. They’re also interesting and exciting to be around, especially when, as a young man, I had narcissistic tendencies. The borderline-narcissist couple is also well documented. As it turned out, she proved to be a good colleague, and then, a good mother. By the time her issues were impairing our lives, I had learned to bear the downside, and we had children. With the benefit of hindsight, I see that although it was extremely difficult and fraught for me, staying with her until our youngest child was 13 was the right thing to do. I now look back with pride at what I withstood and achieved for my children in the face of adversity.

Selecting a life partner. I overheard someone say this once and it has stuck with me “if a man is a prick at 20, he will be the same prick at 60.” In other words, with men, you know what you’re buying. Women, however, change. The personality of my ex-wife changed completely every seven years or so. This is partly a borderline feature, but not so unusual. Astonishingly, my ex always thought her chameleon nature was attractive, fascinating. I hated it, and was constantly in dread of her next incarnation. Just one of her metamorphoses occurred from 2010, when she was a Stepford wife (I liked that one), to the present, when she is a radical feminist, who organises various ‘anti-patriarchy’ and other misandrist events. Women are not creatures of principle, and do not aspire to virtues such as truth and honour. Their hormones control their moods, their moods control their actions, and they change, radically. By the time they hit the menopause, borderlines are monsters. BTW a good predictor of a bad menopause is bad postnatal depression. If your partner has bad postnatal depression, I’d advise you to leave her before she hits the menopause. Her hormones will make her hate you. She may well try to destroy you. Be on the safe side and assume that the vivacious, bubbly and beautiful girl you met at 20 will have transformed into Susie Greene from Curb your Enthusiasm by 45.

Bringing up children. As a father, I would recommend having very few rules but applying them firmly. I had two: no arguing in my earshot, and do your homework as soon as you get in from school. Academically and socially, my children are top performers. They are extremely close, maintaining daily contact with each other, and with me. Undoubtedly, the fact that they are smart is also partly due to the fact that both my ex and I are high IQ. If you’re cohabiting with your children’s mother, I would advise living in separate homes by the time the children reach about age 13. You’ll be a far better influence on them without her diluting, distorting and contradicting the guidance you give them.

Never, ever get married. I emerged very well from my divorce by studying the law so closely that I knew it better than my own lawyer, and my ex’s. But it was still a tortuous, four-year process that took every ounce of my skill, knowledge, strategic and tactical nous, duplicity and cunning. When it comes to separation and divorce, a woman can and will act and lie, and the authorities and courts will immediately believe her and back her all the way. Anything and everything you say to counsellors (male or female), therapists, lawyers and judges will be summarily discounted, dismissed and invalidated. If you’re wealthy, do not make the mistake of believing your prenup will protect you. Your wife will hire a good lawyer and go “forum shopping.” This will mean she takes up residency in the country that gives women the best divorce deals, and divorce you there. In recent years, this has been the UK, where there has been an influx of high net worth Russian wives. The UK courts will throw out your prenup, reach its divorce judgement—which will be heavily stacked against you—and this will capture ALL your global assets and income. There is no get-out. Not only that, but here in the UK, marriage means financial responsibility for your wife for the rest of your life. It does not stop when you divorce, or when you retire. Only when you die.

Love. Love is chemicals in your brain, nothing more. Beautiful, wonderful, magical chemicals at times, but they are NOT your friend. Your love for a woman is an expression of the will of nature, a force far stronger than you can resist. Nature wants us to reproduce, then die. That is all. You may believe you want to have children—in fact you may actually want to—but the force that makes you reproduce is out of your control. In the past, marriage was a good idea, generating stability and balance, which are important for producing psychologically healthy children. But if you want living proof that long-term marriage is now bad for men, next time you’re at your local shopping mall, or even walking in the park, observe closely the body language of the husband in the older couples you see. Study his face. In almost every instance, you will see careworn, melancholy impotence. He will be bowed, his spine gone. Often shuffling obediently a few paces behind his nagging wife, who is in total control, and exploiting it to the max. He is a tired servant, a spent force, a lap dog. A husk. Again from Curb your Enthusiasm, Larry David: “Most of the happy men I know are single, most of the happy women are married.”

Divorce=freedom. The best three things that have happened in my life so far are my children, encountering a living teaching, and getting divorced. I have been doing what I want, pursuing my goals, for the past four years. I go to sleep every night with a smile on my face, and it’s still there when I wake up in the morning. In the last 13 years of my marriage I was permanently irritable, anxious and stressed. I currently spend no time pursuing women. Socially, I get on fine with them—I’m confident, funny and even charming, but for someone in my position, the cost-benefit of an LTR is highly questionable. For a marriage, it’s a piece of shit, unless she’s richer than me. The risk-benefit is even worse. If I did meet someone and we were making each other happier, then if she insisted on marriage, I hope that I would have the strength to walk away.

After divorce. One of the most astounding phenomena for me after divorce has been my married female friends, who with precious few exceptions, defended my ex’s heinous acts during our marriage, and now appear to believe that I am hiding some secret desperation to remarry. They go out of their way to introduce me to overweight, unattractive divorcees, usually with two or three children in tow. They appear to expect me to instantly fall in love, and believe that I desire nothing other than to spend the next 20 years being nagged to emasculation by a fat, ugly woman who spends all my income and enrols me in bringing up someone else’s children. I have learned to suppress my astonishment and laughter, and now put a practised polite smile and nod in their place.

TRP/MGTOW/alpha-beta theory etc. Having sampled various philosophies, and having been in a living teaching, I would rate the sum total of TRP/MGTOW/alpha-beta etc. as a coherent approach. There is, unfortunately and inevitably, a negative, angry element. And also in-fighting. But the central thrust—of reasserting men’s rights and promoting men’s advancement—is a good and timely cause. I would make the following observations. All models of human nature are maps rather than territory. Do not confuse the one for the other. I notice many posters taking a dogmatic view of TRP, going monk and so on. This is inevitable, but if you notice it in yourself, it is time to refrain and take stock. Our situations are individual, and the forces that govern our lives are constantly changing and largely out of our control. If you want to get laid, TRP will improve your chances. But it is a mating strategy, it is confined to our animal urges. Human beings also possess other qualities and are capable of commanding higher faculties. Conversely, if you want to reclaim yourself, MGTOW will help, but remain MGTOW/monk and you will take yourself out of the gene pool, a derogation of evolutionary duty.

On alphas, I remember one early truth bomb when I was aged about 16. I was in love with a girl who I judged to possess a rare and delicate beauty. I was bucking up the courage to ask her on a date, when to my horror, I discovered that she was fucking a local guy who was the worst kind of violent—his hobby was picking fights with weaker guys and quite literally kicking their heads in. It wasn’t so much that I was scared of him, although I was a little, it was that I was disgusted by her consorting with him. Left unchecked by a coherent culture that controls and directs our urges, these are the “men” who will get (or perhaps more likely impregnate and dump) the desirable women. Women have been genetically programmed to be unable to distinguish between high-testosterone behaviour and the more cultured qualities necessary for caring for them, and fathering and bringing up valuable contributors to society. In short, women (with a sprinkling of exceptions who we should be thankful for) are not as smart as men. Nor are they principled. Moreover, Western society has lost its way in providing them with the necessary tools, controls and guidance in this respect, and until there is a change, I think applying TRP/MGTOW/alpha-beta etc. in aggregate is a workable, serviceable approach for young men.

In the Western world, whose culture is dominated by advertising and consumption, gratification has replaced the search for happiness. Women, who are easily swayed, are more at the mercy of these forces than men. But for men too, our lives have become a matter of getting what we want, of satisfying our appetites (TRP is actually an example of this). We have lost touch with some of the finer faculties available to us: fortitude, forgiveness, abiding, persisting, sacrificing and giving, qualities that enable us to set our aim higher.

Finally, my life experience, faith and hope tell me this: Do not check out permanently. Do not give up. Look deeper, and ever deeper, within yourself. You come from somewhere sacred, and hold something sacred. Pursue your goals. If you’re young, take the risk and leave your bad job. Dump your bad gf. Travel the world—you will discover that it is inordinately beautiful, as indeed is the overwhelming majority of humanity. Start a business, and if you’re young, go for it like hell. Get educated: generally, the harder the degree, the more it is worth. Do work you love, work you are called to, or at least, work that serves your aims. Be courageous and move to a better place, if necessary, perhaps a country with better conditions and potential partners. An essential gratitude for the gift of existence still permeates the culture of many Asian countries. And their women are feminine. Cultivate your pursuit of virtues like honour, truth and beauty. Grow your mental, spiritual and physical strength. Peace.


[–]Modredpillschool[M] [score hidden] stickied comment (5 children)

Sorry for the removal. Aggressive reports on this one. Sticky for visibility.

[–]chogbonna 171 points172 points  (3 children)

Amazing insight. I don't check in as often as I used to, but seeing such an objective, well written insightful post devoid of hate is very enlightening.

[–]Incitatus002 11 points12 points  (1 child)

Agree completely. Awesome. I am exactly the same age as the author - 53 - and have a lot in common with him, except I live in a 3rd-world country (I'm a white Westerner, though.)

Even at my age, I sometimes have this visceral / insane urge to be in something permanent with a woman, but then sanity prevails and I ask: why get married or even cohabit?

I'm comfortable financially, past the age where I want to deal with diapers, am bonking a couple of women 15 years younger than me, so really, what's in it for me to get married? Oh sure, the women are very, very keen on marriage, which I get, but the WIIFM test for me just doesn't compute.

I do agree that there are often very aggressive and angry postings on here, but these miss the point. TRP is not about being angry with women, it is about dismissing them as creatures of lesser importance; about understanding that a wet hole can only compensate for major league craziness for less than six months, whereas the mad cow disease you WILL face, is forever.

[–]Endorsed ContributorUrsusG 140 points141 points  (1 child)

A valuable contribution from a person who has lived, learned, and thought this stuff through.

Young guys here - read and internalize.

This is the kind of quality posting we should have more of.

[–]dzkkne 29 points30 points  (0 children)

We need more older Brits here in TRP. The writing is so eloquent and congruent, it's just pleasure to read. Delivers the message, thought through and well balance - makes me unwilling do dispute any of the points made.

P.S. I myself did a law degree in UK and have been living here since my mid-teens.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 135 points136 points  (24 children)

Good post.

Women have been genetically programmed to be unable to distinguish between high-testosterone behaviour and the more cultured qualities necessary for caring for them, and fathering and bringing up valuable contributors to society.

Oh, they can distinguish these qualities just fine. Clear as day. This is classic alpha fucks beta bucks, and they know the difference. They want both, and to persuade betas to give it to them they pretend to conflate the two. "I thought I could change him" is just framing herself as the loyal vulnerable partner, hoping to have her BB from her AF. She knows what she wants, and she gets it. And it's always both. Either at the same time, or alpha first beta second.

[–]ElKapitan8 56 points57 points  (5 children)

Manipulation. Amoral manipulation. Life destroying manipulation.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 17 points18 points  (3 children)

Life destroying manipulation

Only if we let them.

[–]sd4c 3 points4 points  (2 children)

We not only let them, we enable them. AF/BB won't be back under control until single moms start losing their bastards again, to starvation and exposure. Most women today, would rather get knocked up by an alpha, and raise his kids on welfare, than have a stable home and loving beta as their father.

[–]p3n1x 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Life destroying manipulation.

It is a two way street. Fortunately, males are more cognitive of it and can learn self control.

[–]Endorsed ContributorUrsusG 50 points51 points  (12 children)

Agreed.

OP seems to be in the "women don't know any better" camp.

I believe they are in the "we know fucking well and we're crafty about it" camp.

But it doesn't matter, because the result is the same: the AF/BB principle applies whether it's blind or calculated.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 13 points14 points  (0 children)

I believe they are in the "we know fucking well and we're crafty about it" camp

Absolutely. Even women "trying to be good" are acknowledging that this is not in their nature, and it's an active struggle to behave.

AF/BB principle applies whether its blind or calculated

Exactly.

It's the same to us whether it's innate, instinctive, calculated, known or unknown to her. Ultimately it doesn't matter what she says or what she knows. We have to cope with it and live our lives the best we can regardless.

[–]adam142857[S] 36 points37 points  (8 children)

I think you're probably right. They're less smart than us in some ways, but smarter than us in others.

The good in me (or beta perhaps) in me wants to believe there's some good in them.

An interesting alpha/beta thing on women. I want both too. Alpha female (hot) for fucks, and beta female (good girl) for support.

[–]Endorsed ContributorUrsusG 67 points68 points  (1 child)

I want both too.

I think for most of history, high value men had both: hot fucks (on the side), and good wife/mother at home.

The men remained loyal to their wives as providers, while the wives turned a blind eye to the mistresses as long as the household and social status kept humming along and the sexual infidelity wasn't blatant and embarrassing.

And as we know, women don't care as much about sexual infidelity as men do, with good reason.

For men (before contraception) women's sexual infidelity meant you raised another man's child, which is a total failure of the male's evolutionary purpose.

For women, men's sexual infidelity only carries the risk of the man falling stupidly head over heels for a mistress and diverting all his resources to her. It's kinda bad, but not as devastating, because her children are always her own.

But of course, that admittedly rotten compromise wasn't good enough for the ladies, so they pushed and keep pushing for a complete victory of their sexual strategy over ours.

What they don't realize (or don't care about) is that civilization is built on assurance of paternity. Engineers design safe bridges because they want THEIR kids, not Chad's, to walk over them safely.

tl,dr: enjoy the decline if you can, things are going south regardless.

[–]Chaddeus_Rex 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That's why a man stops giving about society. If the bridge falls, great! If it stands, great!

[–]dontbethatguynow 9 points10 points  (1 child)

An interesting alpha/beta thing on women. I want both too. Alpha female (hot) for fucks, and beta female (good girl) for support.

This was always my same thought nice to see it put into words. Hard to come by though, sometimes referred to as unicorns.

[–]p3n1x 1 point2 points  (0 children)

sometimes referred to as unicorns.

100% Absolutely wrong.

A "unicorn" would be one woman being both Alpha/Beta blended exactly to fit your selfish needs.

OP is talking about multiple women, each fitting a different role. Yes you can do this, you just need to have a pair of balls and stop doing what you are told by society.

high value men had both: hot fucks (on the side), and good wife/mother at home. The men remained loyal to their wives as providers, while the wives turned a blind eye to the mistresses as long as the household and social status kept humming along and the sexual infidelity wasn't blatant and embarrassing.

This way of life still exists. Even in the West. Today, right now, this second.

[–]p3n1x 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I believe they are in the "we know fucking well and we're crafty about it" camp.

I have to disagree, based on life experience and walking the thin line of a logical falacy. This puts women in a special bucket of abilities. You can't say some men are ignorant to the process and then claim ALL women are fully cognitive of the process.

I have heard multiple young females say something along the lines, "I can't tell you why I did XX, but if I did, I had a good reason/(feelings)".

Yeah they are crafty, but so are we.

[–]trpcounsel 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hell yeah we are. I think you're on the money with both of your comments.

[–][deleted]  (2 children)

[removed]

    [–]p3n1x 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Because women have no concept of how a man becomes a man

    They don't give a shit, they are programmed not to. They don't biologically have time for empathy sex with shitty BP genes.

    In today's society, these wires get crossed because they have more time and freedom in the Dick Candy Shop.

    [–]Traz_Onmale 3 points4 points  (1 child)

    Like you wouldn't fuck a hot chick who treats other girls terribly.

    [–]Endorsed ContributorRunawayGrain 56 points57 points  (43 children)

    Well written, and insightful.

    I overheard someone say this once and it has stuck with me “if a man is a prick at 20, he will be the same prick at 60.” In other words, with men, you know what you’re buying. Women, however, change. The personality of my ex-wife changed completely every seven years or so.

    So I'm dealing with a friend at the moment. He married when he was young, dropped out of school, and was married for twenty five years. He lost his brother and his dad in the space of a year. About a month after his dad passed, he woke up and the wife told him she wanted a divorce and walked out the door. That's the last he saw of her, and the papers were drawn up in a week.

    He got off lucky, since she wanted to chase a Chad from her work. She didn't fleece him, she got most of the debt, and he got the house and car.

    But in reading what you said about her changing every seven years mirrored something he said when we talked last. He described her going through three phases, where she was wet and wild, one where she was a hard worker, and the last one where she was getting unstable. What cracked the whole thing was the last year, where he's had to be on antidepressants and had panic attacks due to the strain of losing his father and brother, whom he was close to. She smelled weakness, and that was the end of it.

    So yeah, women shift gears periodically, and jarringly.

    [–][deleted] 17 points18 points  (1 child)

    He got off lucky, since she wanted to chase a Chad from her work. She didn't fleece him, she got most of the debt, and he got the house and car.

    This could have been infinitely worse for him considering the state of divorce court. He should be genuinely happy with this outcome.

    [–]Endorsed ContributorRunawayGrain 11 points12 points  (0 children)

    He's cognizant of just how lucky he got on that side of things. He's also sort of dazed by just how much better off he is financially now that he isn't supporting her.

    [–]skillsmcgee1 30 points31 points  (40 children)

    She smelled weakness, and that was the end of it.

    Damn. It's like that? Man's father and brother died. Are women typically this cruel? I'm new to TRP. Tell me it ain't so.

    [–]1TheDreadnought1 27 points28 points  (26 children)

    Not all of them are this cruel, but every single one of them will lose attraction at these signs of weakness. For men that are married for years and have severe breakdowns like that, some wives would just divorce and quit like that one, some would just become bitches and turn your life into hell until you are the one wanting divorce, some will cheat, few will still stay by your side. But none of them, none would get more attracted to you after seeing you get destroyed like this.

    [–]adam142857[S] 22 points23 points  (11 children)

    A true example. A friend of a friend of mine was diagnosed with two types of cancer. While he was fighting them, his wife had an affair. He died BTW.

    Without a culture (legal, familial, moral or religious) that controls and disciplines women, their solipsism closes off the possibility of moral action.

    From my own experience (and I was reluctant to open this chapter). My daughter was in a serious car accident after our divorce, fighting for her life, in a coma. While this was happening, my ex wife remonstrated with me that I was paying insufficient emotional attention to HER.

    Yes, you read right. EX wife, insufficient emotional attention to HER. Never mind our daughter on life support. I put this down to the BPD, but when you're there dealing with it, it's very, very difficult.

    [–]reddit_sucks6 14 points15 points  (2 children)

    Jesus christ dude you're a fucking saint. If I had a daughter and my wife/ex wife was giving me shit about paying attention to her I'd wig out. You demonstrate a level of patience and understanding that to me is out of this world.

    And the fact that your marriage still ended with you being the patient person I see posting before me, leads me to believe I wouldn't last a year being married.

    Thank you for the post and sharing your experiences. As an unmarried man in my early 30's, I appreciate you posting your sacrifice and experience so that I can learn from it and not to make your same mistakes.

    [–]adam142857[S] 14 points15 points  (0 children)

    Glad to help. This is exactly why I posted it. If we hadn't had children, I'd have walked years back. But good children are the best thing you can leave the world, and good children need a father who is present and not pussy whipped.

    Never, ever get married. And before cohabiting, verify the rules that apply to asset division and child maintenance in your jurisdiction. I know of cases where women move into a guy's home for the two years it requires to gain 50% rights, and leaves him after 2 years and 1 day, to claim half the home's value.

    [–]gELSK 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    // , British men have a "stiff upper lip" mentality

    [–]i4mn30 6 points7 points  (2 children)

    Without a culture (legal, familial, moral or religious) that controls and disciplines women, their solipsism closes off the possibility of moral action.

    This is a golden description of what feminism has done to girls of this age. Even in India, where you western folks probably think that girls are still tame and conservative (to some extent they are, but definitely not in metro cities), the women folk are becoming extremely immoral, amorous, outspoken about all the chad-fuckery they want to get before tying down a beta buck.

    Independence - both financial and social, is what they shield their cock carousel rides with. That's the excuse. It was a glorious time up about until 15 years ago. Now even in India any average middle class girl you talk to, she'll reek of ultra feminism with their "solipsism" off the charts.

    [–]adam142857[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

    Yes. I think that's a clear view of where feminism is taking us.

    The options for bringing up children are to enter a non-marriage arrangement with a woman who understands, in a jurisdiction where the rules will not disadvantage you on separation. In the UK, for example, common-law spouses have none of the rights to income or assets that married partners enjoy.

    Or to not have children.

    It is very clear that being an absent father produces bad citizens.

    [–]SKRedPill 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Second that totally. These girls have been rather "suddenly" exposed, so they've gone kamikaze in a way that you wouldn't believe it in the west.

    A similar thing was observed with Iraqi Muslim women - I heard they'd try to liberally flirt with the soliders.

    [–]skillsmcgee1 2 points3 points  (13 children)

    Gotcha. How could one react to the situation in order to not only maintain, but increase, attraction?

    [–]1TheDreadnought1 10 points11 points  (8 children)

    to not only maintain, but increase, attraction?

    Don't know if it is possible. But the standard advice is to keep being her rock, being stoic. Just keep strong while with her, then drop her at her place and go to yours to get alone, or go to a (male) good friend, and let it go. Cry your ass off if you feel like it, but keep yourself in check when near her.

    If you need psychological help in this cases, you're already losing hard in that department.

    [–]regulator619 15 points16 points  (6 children)

    Lmfao! Be a rock! Hold frame!

    How pathetic... So you need to be a dancing monkey to ensure your wife or gf stays with you.

    Fuck that! Id rather be happy alone.

    [–][deleted] 17 points18 points  (0 children)

    Fuck that! Id rather be happy alone.

    And, that's a reasonable position. In fact, that's the most common position recommended here: don't get married or cohabitate.

    [–]p3n1x 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    FYI, Wife and GF are two fundamentally different situations.

    [–]1CoupDeGrace22 6 points7 points  (1 child)

    In the situation that your brother and father die, you don't give a fuck about some bitch's attraction, you take your time to deal with it.

    The whole lesson here is not "always be strong", you can't "always be strong", unless you've lost a father and depending on your age you don't know shit about the toll it takes and no amount of faking it will hold ALL the pieces together, some aspects of life will take a hit and the same effect of a woman "smelling weakness" is achieved, the only lesson from that comment's story is the same old "Don't marry" so if the shit hits the fan you don't have an EXTRA burden of performance around a cunt who's commitment is so fickle.

    [–]p3n1x 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    The part missing here, is how a man deals with the loss.

    Many dudes turn into cunts themselves and use the tragedy as an excuse.

    There is nothing wrong with being weak, just don't do it in front of her. Go hang with your buddies, down a bottle of spirits, cry your eyes out. Just don't do it in front of her.

    Then, when you are handling the business side of the matters (funeral, money, family BS), tell her to STFU like a man when she tries to make the subject about her.

    [–]VickVaseline 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Frame, My Friend, Frame. (It's in the sidebar.)

    [–]p3n1x 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    It is hard to raise the frame you started with. The mistake most men make is showing all their cards, they jam their foot on the "gas pedal" and try to be as impressive as possible from the first conversation.

    You will become boring.

    So, never stop bettering yourself. Either she comes along for the ride or she doesn't.

    If you "can't live without her", then you are already doing it wrong.

    [–]reydemierde 8 points9 points  (2 children)

    Unless you have close male friends that you can talk to in confidence, you bear your burdens alone. Women don't want to hear about your problems regardless of what you say. Anytime I've ever communicated any sort of problem to a woman they've changed almost immediately. So I've learned that I talk to my dad about my problems and that's pretty much it. He's getting up there in age so I cherish the time I have him for since it's probably going to end in the next few years. Then I guess I'm just on my own with my problems.

    [–][deleted]  (1 child)

    [deleted]

      [–]p3n1x 5 points6 points  (0 children)

      Are women typically this cruel?

      It isn't cruelty to them. It is a biological imperative. A weak leader for an extended period of time is "not safe".

      Funny how most men bitch and moan that they became "bitches". Face some "cruelty" and then remember where their original balls were.

      [–]Endorsed ContributorUrsusG 10 points11 points  (2 children)

      I don't want to sound like a dick just for the sake of it, or to justify the woman leaving, but a person who

      had to be on antidepressants and had panic attacks due to the strain of losing his father and brother,

      doesn't sound like a man who is strong and well adjusted to reality.

      If you're an adult, you have to realize your parents will die one day, so might your siblings if something bad happens to them unexpectedly. It's normal to grieve and not be in top form for a while, but needing medication and having panic attacks is indicative of bigger issues. You don't know the whole story, neither do I. Was she cruel? I don't know.

      tl,dr: gotta be strong

      [–]Endorsed ContributorRunawayGrain 9 points10 points  (1 child)

      It's difficult to describe it, but he and his dad were really, really close. So I can really understand him having a tough time with his dad passing. Nothing was cruel there, she was just being a woman and jumped ship when he wasn't at the top of his game.

      [–]gELSK 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      // , AWALT

      If you see a guy with a hammer, he's usually going to have nails, as well. Not always, but usually.

      If you see a laptop, it probably has an Intel or AMD chip in it. Not always, but usually.

      If you see a woman, she's typically this way (cruelty seems to imply intent, but the hamster prevents that sort of agency). Not always, but usually.

      [–][deleted]  (24 children)

      [deleted]

      [–]360_no_scope_upvote 6 points7 points  (9 children)

      The thing with borderlines is when you diagnose one as BPD you have the choice to and absolutely should walk away. Most men do not have the tools or the frame to deal with a master manipulator, but they believe they can weather the storm, leaving them feeling empty and confused.

      You can't control BPD people anymore than a regular woman but there are ways of ways taming them to get them to cooperate better. In my experience I've met a few and always come out on top, but it's always risky because it's your livelyhood on the line.

      If you meet a sexy girl and she has BPD and you're willing to get a little crazy. Frame control is incredibly important, recognize when you're being manipulated, set concrete boundaries with BPD women and walk if they break them.

      [–]chuckthundercock 12 points13 points  (1 child)

      "set concrete boundaries with BPD women and walk if they break them."

      No, just walk.. Seriously. The pussy is never worth it.

      [–]2Archterus 6 points7 points  (0 children)

      And break them they will. Its beyond control. If you think you can control a borderline you are also delusional. As has been said, run, RUN.

      [–]wastelandchic 11 points12 points  (1 child)

      The problem one encounters when hitching their wagon to a borderline, as I did somewhat recently, is there is, generally speaking, no frame of reference for this deeply ingrained mental illness that still seemingly flies under the radar, mostly owing to the fact that we have come to anticipate overwrought emotionality, and yes, crazy from most women. It wasn't until full-scale devaluation and the increasingly common sudden outbursts of unwarranted rage resulting from the most trivial of issues that I started to question just WTF was going on with this otherwise adoring woman. Moreover, it wasn't until we had officially separated and gone NC before I began researching behaviors that were so outside the normal confines of relationships, that I discovered [read: stumbled upon] BPD. Like most, a lightbulb illuminated within seconds of reading some article about behaviors associated with the illness. But your point is well taken that you do have a choice to stay or go DEPENDENT upon your ability to recognize the initial stages of love bombing/idealization, oversharing, rush to intimacy and perhaps co-habitation and/or marriage. These red flags are frequently missed entirely to the detriment of their mark.

      The way I see it is you essentially have to treat a borderline as entirely disposable. Fuck toys and some often solidly entertaining owing to their impulsivity, but otherwise, they're worthless. I know that sounds bad to those who have not been ensnared by one of these legitimately demented women, but if you have had the misfortune, you realize they possess no intrinsic value other than their bodies (which are usually admirable). Treat them like complete shit, establish exceptionally strict boundaries and the minute they are violated, block their fucking number and walk away. And the sex was the primary draw with my ex BPD but in the end, it was genuinely the only thing about her that endeared her to me given her stunted emotional development, childishness, anger, prevarications and total lack of empathy. She is genuinely a giant turd whose only redeeming value is her great rack, outstanding fellatio skills and soon to be declining middle-aged ass.

      [–]1PantsonFire1234 3 points4 points  (0 children)

      Just like anything modern society makes BPD women a nightmare. They have ample opportunity to find other men, the law will protect and enable them. And to make matters worse she has every aspect of our culture enabling her bad decisions to only worsen. Breaking up with you for a shitty reason and puking in your heart is only normal to a modern BPD woman.

      Back in the day women didn't have Tinder, mobile phones or a constantly refreshing pool of men to pick from. One wrong move would earn a smack to the mouth. No one would back them up with their shit and alternatives weren't that appealing. Further more the very idea of fucking with a man that deeply never occurred to them because they didn't have an entire back catalogue of pro-women soaps to binge watch on tv, getting all inspired.

      Something will snap either way because this isn't just a mental occurrence it's a cultural one.

      [–]askmrcia 4 points5 points  (1 child)

      The thing with borderlines is when you diagnose one as BPD you have the choice to and absolutely should walk away. Most men do not have the tools or the frame to deal with a master manipulator, but they believe they can weather the storm, leaving them feeling empty and confused.

      Yea like the guy you are responding too, when I was with BDP I was completely ignorant to what that even was. Like I just figured it was typical girl being crazy, but man I did not see the storm coming.

      But I'll say this. It was harder in my case to walk away because that chick manipulated EVERYONE within our social circle making them out to believe she was a perfect angel. Like seriously people thought she could do no wrong.

      So I knew if I just up'ed and leave it would made me look like the bad guy like all her ex's.

      I'm not going to get into detail on what happened, but I'm sure you know all the BDP traits. But just wanted to say its not as easy to walk away on most occasions. The best thing to do is put out the smoke before a flame arise which for most guys is hard to see coming.

      [–]1PantsonFire1234 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      They will look for that thing you want from them or what you are invested in in general. Then they will hold it against you. Most normal guys look to bond with a girl since it's the natural process. For a BPD that bonding is the easiest way to control you. And control you she will because she needs to feel in control. And when she does she will get bored and lose that anxiety that made her submissively attractive to you in the first place.

      That's why you cannot win from a BPD if you care to much or can't control your caring. I can pretty much switch it off on command and I have had the necessary experience to recognize every sign or phase like a well tuned football defense. And I sort of like the game to. But even then I get blind sided once or twice and I lose a couple yards although I end up winning the game.

      No guy should try on a BPD woman if he leans to much on women in general. For emotional support, validation or happiness. Also people reading should remember that BPD's change their game all the time. Their objective is to take control so if one angle of attack isn't working they will try another. This is why BPD's appear so uncontrollable.

      [–]1PantsonFire1234 2 points3 points  (10 children)

      At beginning she was one of plates and while I treated her like dirt she was madly in love with me..my alphaness protected me from the crazy..eventually I fell under her spell and of course started acting beta. Then she devalued and discarded me, with lot of really low insults and of course no closure.

      Even then BPD's look for a guy who gives them a way in. There must have been something about you that made her think she could claw her way to your heart. And the no closure thing is a manipulative trick to leave that door open should she need to return.

      Take it like this though from a guy who has met BPD's on either end. If you fall for them and break frame you become boring to them and they devalue. And if you don't fall for them and maintain frame they get angry, dissatisfied and jealous. They will start some shit to make you jealous and when that doesn't work they leave either way.

      So no matter what you had done it would have ended. The only difference is you sort of win the battle if you don't care deeply for her and maintained frame. But only a bitch would see this conclusion of drama as a real victory.

      [–]Herdsengineers 26 points27 points  (2 children)

      I'm 42. Been married, divorced, dealt with personality disordered women in relationships. Best advice is to not be with one. Learn the signs, and run when you see them. The best sex isn't worth the rest of the trouble they bring.

      I'm paraphrasing OP here, but I think the message is build yourself, your value, your life, pursue a mission that is meaningful to you. Women fit in by being by your side and reaching for the same goals if they share the same core values as you so they'll want to. Don't let them come in and redirect the path in life you are taking, no matter how hard they try.

      If she's willing to join you in serving the pursuit of a goal or mission in life that is important to you, that's the woman you want to be with. You don't serve her, she doesn't serve you, you both serve pursuit of the mission, and you lead her by your actions in how you pursue said mission.

      [–]adam142857[S] 26 points27 points  (1 child)

      At risk of commenting over-eagerly, I actually think she is there to serve you. A woman will be most fulfilled in that role: to serve and support her man. But she wants him to be a real man. Contemporary Western society has eroded the possibility for him to become a real man. Socialism, feminism, consumerism et al. have exacerbated the problem, convincing us that we're weak, stupid and have little potential. Which is why I think TRP/MGTOW etc is timely and positive, if used as vector guides.

      More valuable still is the type of supportive exchange you see in forums like this. If you are attentive, you will soon be able to sort the wheat from the chaff.

      [–]Herdsengineers 5 points6 points  (0 children)

      I agree, I was more trying to provide input on how to get a woman to do it these days. Men and women all have core values/beliefs. Find a woman that shares your's, explain your mission and goals in life, and invite her to join in pursuit of the mission. She can come with you, but she can't take over the lead.

      Only a woman that shares your values and beliefs will go for that. She'll see it as serving the same purpose, not serving you. At least at first. It's over time that you demonstrate your competence, and then she learns to trust you, and you become the captain she follows.

      [–]OrgasmicKitkat 8 points9 points  (1 child)

      EDIT: I'm pretty much a nobody on TRP, and I don't know how these things work, yet I'd like to propose that this brilliant post is added to the sidebar. It's just pure gold.

      The part about the borderline wife really resonated with me.

      My ex was a borderline but I didn't know about what a borderline was back then. For those who don't know, in a nutshell it's a psychological disorder in which the person suffering from it experiences emotions, good and bad, much more intensely than most people. Jesus she made my life hard. I was really in love and took every fucking bullet for her.

      She changed her personality like 3 times. She went from being an electronic music, extasy and acid loving party animal, to being a romantic super close girlfriend for me and convinced to move in with her in another country dropping out of college (and that's when the minor undiagnosable ailments started, just like OP's wife), to being a complete hippie trying to fix her ailments through natural medicine, drugs like ayahuasca and not giving a fuck about my concerns for her actions. When we first started dating a minor disagreement with her would make her change her stand in an instant.

      After a serious conversation about my future with my dad I had to leave her. And God it was hard, harder than I imagined. She forced herself into my house twice after break up and plating her with the hope of fixing things and the second time I knew I was getting into psycho-level shit so I told her that it was goodbye for real this time.

      But God she could fuck.

      I sometimes miss her but when I do I always force myself to remember all of the shitty moments I went through. Too many crises for almost two years. And I am SO much better off nowadays, and I've learned a lot thanks to TRP ever since. So thank you guys and thank OP for sharing.

      If you spot a borderline, don't even think about it. If your girlfriend/plate is a borderline. LEAVE. NOW. I can't stress this enough.

      [–]out_looking_in 13 points14 points  (8 children)

      No offense, but it's hard to put a lot of weight on someone's advice to not marry when they themselves married a woman with BPD.

      I know a few women with BPD and they are fucking horrendous human beings. Somehow, they still manage to trap men. Though, those men seem to be betafags with mommy issues whose insecurities cause them to ignore all the enormous red flags and adopt a "captain save a hoe" attitude.

      Not saying this is/was you, but the fact that you actually married a BPD women suggests that you made a horrible choice in mate selection, and that your experience with marriage is not at all typical.

      There are plenty of conservative, traditional, and psychologically-healthy women out there who would make great supportive and submissive wives and nurturing mothers. There are also ways to massively reduce the risk of divorce with proper mate selection. Most importantly by understanding the relationship between her parents and her own relationship to her parents. There might not be many women who meet this criteria you live, or in the communities you associate with, but they're out there, and they're worth finding.

      next time you’re at your local shopping mall, or even walking in the park, observe closely the body language of the husband in the older couples you see. Study his face. In almost every instance, you will see careworn, melancholy impotence. He will be bowed, his spine gone.

      That's men in general. In the RP community, we know this already.

      [–]adam142857[S] 11 points12 points  (6 children)

      Though, those men seem to be betafags with mommy issues whose insecurities cause them to ignore all the enormous red flags and adopt a "captain save a hoe" attitude.

      Probably some truth in that in my case back then, although perhaps not as cut and dried as you put it, and not so evident to a young man barely out of his teens.

      Note, though, that all humans are deeply flawed.

      Also BPD women compensate for those terrible flaws with some dazzling positives, like bed skills, fawning worship, and in my ex, acute intelligence.

      [–]Chaddeus_Rex 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      acute intelligence.

      Define 'intelligence'? One of the definitions of intelligence includes a cognizance of one's own mental and emotional state. Also, you yourself said she gave contradictory advice to you, so what specifically makes her 'acutely intelligent? A good memory, does not intelligence make.

      [–]Chaddeus_Rex 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      There are plenty of conservative, traditional, and psychologically-healthy women out there who would make great supportive and submissive wives and nurturing mothers.

      In what universe do such unicorns reside?

      [–]hodltaco 7 points8 points  (2 children)

      "Spotting a borderline. Well documented online, but worth repeating: If she exhibits emotional lability, mimicking you in clothing and mannerisms, has fraught interpersonal relationships, psychological crises, cooks up friction and arguments out of nothing, constantly changes her mind etc., end it immediately. Close off all contact."

      First-single greatest post I've ever read on TRP/MGTOW thank you for taking the time. As I write this I'm late for a meeting but wanted to comment.

      Also 50's white/successful/etc... here and can absolutely verify what this gentleman is saying. If you're young the thought of menopause is like something from another solar system but I can assure you that when it hits it will affect your life so dramatically I can't describe accurately enough especially if you turn out having kids late and she's supposedly still on mom duty.

      Borderline woman is an extremely important topic for those open to LTR and especially those wanting kids. Often you will become the sole parent and in my case you've got an absolute lunatic who can't get her meds right and is literally different from one day to the next. At this age (52) that old saying I always heard old guys say is so insanely true: If you want to know how she is going to be as a wife go meet her mom. Every bit of that is true. Wish I could add more right now but I have to go. This borderline topic is extraordinarily important-your unicorn may be perfect until she hits menopause or after she's done breast feeding babies-at that point all bets are off and the hormones can do anything. It is a living hell.

      [–]adam142857[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

      Absolutely true. The law should protect families and men in this regard. If she needs meds--and my ex took handfuls of them--she should be on some form of watch list or under legal restraint.

      My ex's mother is tin-foil hat crazy, needless to say.

      [–]hodltaco 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      The successful marriages (as in thriving not enduring) that I know of have great MIL’s or wives that have divorced themselves from their families. Keep in mind that is not many. I am no proponent.

      [–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (4 children)

      Disappointed this is deleted. Saved to read it later and it’s gone.

      [–]adam142857[S] 7 points8 points  (2 children)

      It was deleted by the Automoderator bot and will likely reappear soon.

      [–]dontbedenied 3 points4 points  (0 children)

      I hope so. I glanced over the post and saved it for later too. I've almost married a couple of BPD women, your post looked very insightful.

      [–]ElKapitan8 4 points5 points  (0 children)

      Solid advice. Thanks for the post. I share the idea that there is no 'one true' road to success. One should always be able to readjust his strategies as the terrain changes. TRP is not the perfect answer but it is essential to keep you on track and towards YOUR personal mission. Not someone else's.

      [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

      First off: Putting the most important thing at the start. Yes, this story is long. And yes if you scroll through the comments instead of reading it, the text is worth every single second you spent reading it. Imagine helping some wise veteran out, paying for his coffee, working a day with him and learning a truckload of wisdom BUT YOU CAN READ IT FOR FREE RIGHT NOW

      Spotting a borderline. Well documented online, but worth repeating: If she exhibits emotional lability, mimicking you in clothing and mannerisms, has fraught interpersonal relationships, psychological crises, cooks up friction and arguments out of nothing, constantly changes her mind etc., end it immediately. Close off all contact.

      There is a fine line between this and the actual female pole. A great video which goes into said dynamic - Key is to differentiate between her being just in her female nature and actually harmful due to Borderline or similar. I met a russian girl rather recently who made up shit every second day. I thought "Hey, its just how she is. Just gotta show her some feelings." It helped, but the 'crazy' didn't stop leaking more and more. So i cut that out of my life ASAP.

      Love. Love is chemicals in your brain, nothing more. Beautiful, wonderful, magical chemicals at times, but they are NOT your friend. Your love for a woman is an expression of the will of nature, a force far stronger than you can resist.

      Cannot resist linking the good ol' Rick here

      TRP/MGTOW/alpha-beta theory etc. Having sampled various philosophies, and having been in a living teaching, I would rate the sum total of TRP/MGTOW/alpha-beta etc. as a coherent approach. There is, unfortunately and inevitably, a negative, angry element. And also in-fighting. But the central thrust—of reasserting men’s rights and promoting men’s advancement—is a good and timely cause.

      Wise words, i salute you.

      Do not check out permanently. Do not give up. Look deeper, and ever deeper, within yourself. You come from somewhere sacred, and hold something sacred. Pursue your goals. If you’re young, take the risk

      This almost made me cry. I do not trust myself to be able to pursue my dreams. This helped more than this bit of text could show you.

      My last word on this: Thank you wise man that just like me opened a browser and typed on a keyboard, but is still so different to everything i have experienced so far.

      [–]half_man_half_cat 3 points4 points  (1 child)

      This is a great post.

      Your last comments about Asia really resonate with me too. I think it is truly one of the last places of hope - hope that feminism, consumerism and other western bullshit doesn’t reach there and distort females.

      [–]okiedokie321 4 points5 points  (0 children)

      It's long been there. More hidden away under the matriarchy. I never understand why guys think Asia is some safe haven.

      [–][deleted]  (3 children)

      [removed]

      [–]loofy_goofy 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      Well for someone with NPD everybody would be a BPD. Dude your dating history is a direct consequence of your own personality disorder.

      Hang yourself.

      [–]adam142857[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Awesome advice!

      You must be a complete cunt.

      [–]theposhlad 3 points4 points  (0 children)

      I'm really curious why this post was removed... Especially after reading the whole thing!

      [–]loofy_goofy 2 points3 points  (4 children)

      Sorry mate but you specifically mentioned that you've had narcissistic tendencies and your wife was diagnosed as 'bpd' which could be actually the direct consequence of narcissistic abuse on your part.

      Many people really are diagnosable with 'BPD' or some other shitty diagnosis after years spend with a narcissist.

      Your post might be true and your post might be another delusional narcissistic fart.

      And why exactly you've spend 26 years with borderline?

      [–]adam142857[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      That's a very long story. Also speculative on your part.

      She hasn't been diagnosed BTW. Also the BPD tendencies were evident when we met. They're still evident 4 years after we parted, and are getting worse, as they do in most cases of BPD.

      Then we can go to: as a complete stranger, why are you so concerned with why I did 'exactly' A or B? We had children, with the responsibilities that entails, and the highs were good. The lows just got worse. Anyway, maybe have a think about why you want to discuss. Envy? Vent frustration? Trolling?

      Remember, everyone is anonymous here, and it's take-it-or-leave-it advice. I have nothing to gain personally from posting.

      [–]1PantsonFire1234 1 point2 points  (2 children)

      I never heard this argument before. Generally personality disorders fester very early in the development of a child. It's why children of divorced parents or traumatic events at childhood have long lasting effects the person in question isn't even fully aware off.

      When a man and a woman meet it's all about chemistry. Yes your game matters as a guy, but if you don't match in terms of personality etc you are much less likely to advance with her. Especially if she's not looking for a meaningless fuck a.k.a. not a slut.

      BPD's/NPD's might worsen each others disorders yes that's true. It's one way personality disorders advance. A parent has a disorder and fucks up the child much more. Etc etc. But to state that this girl was 100% normal and OP turned her into a pseudo BPD isn't how it works. The fact that she was attracted to his personality means she's some form of a mirror to him.

      [–]Velebit 7 points8 points  (2 children)

      There are a lot of inconsistencies here. She is mentally unstable but a great mother... You are a narcissist and yet out of this gene pool lottery win come "awesome" kids. Excuse my scepticism.

      Your only two rules are something about no aruging... I actually googled that you used expression and didn't find whatever it's even meant to meant. You mean one of your two rules are no aruging... you mean you want (think you deserve?) blind obedience (ah the narcissist part, yes I remember) and the other is about homework? Because the worst thing, after being second guessed is of course, your status being diminished by your kids bad grades lol what about being honest, non-manipulative, consistent, having an independent set of moral values (rather than treating people only as good as you must) etc.

      You state that your wife changed and present proof that you became irritable and unhappy with her, on the other hand you said it's a great fit and she was a wonderful parent. You also back this up with some broscience oneliners like:

      if a man is a prick at 20, he will be the same prick at 60

      Most of the happy men I know are single, most of the happy women are married

      Often shuffling obediently a few paces behind his nagging wife

      Women have been genetically programmed to be unable to distinguish between high-testosterone behaviour and the more cultured qualities necessary for caring for them you literally shared a story about a woman being very able to choose a badboy instead of delicate provider and than blab that she isn't... by what logic do you arrive at that conclusion? So it's just random that the school beauty went with the school beast? Ofc but narcissists wont think twice about their conclusions, it would hurt their egos to conclude they were wrong or wrote something senseless.

      gratification has replaced the search for happiness

      happiness is also a chemical, serotonin, and when peoples brains lack it they have depressive personality disorder so they take serotonin in various forms as pills, also when you get humiliated your serotonin falls dramatically, thereby people are happiest when they percieve themselves as high status in social hierarchy and unhappiest when they are at the bottom. modern sign of status/happiness is usually promiscuity and money and people chase that, same as they did a thousand years ago, what's your point... maybe you meant fulfillment or spiritual englightement but how is divorcing your ageing, annoying and nagging wife any sort of rolemodel for some "ye olden times of spirituality", nope man, she got fat, boring and you just got tired of her and started noticing stuff you didn't once your testosterone (natural, external has different effects, that is why users are sterile) fell you just came to realize how she was all along. Your testosterone meant that her role in your life was a net positive, despite her being neurotic. Once she wasnt a looker, served her role as mother and your testosterone influenced serotonin you get from status of being a model citizen father husband went away all that was left was her neuroticism. As a good narcissist you could not tolerate that and having no use for her, you just got rid of her :D Now you are telling this rationalization of arbitrary and hormone determined events and lay the full responsibility on her, along with you doing nothing wrong. Full of (nonsensical) some broscience backed conclusions and contradictory stuff.

      People surround themselves with those who share their opinions and tastes. Of course you wont quote anyone who actually believes in happy marriage/relationships or is in one. You will merely do biologically predetermined cognitive bias and seek information that already confirms your positions. Married men are broken and whipped because otherwise they would not be married you were married but you took her "good years" and once she "got bad" you got rid of her, of course in a nice, neat and thorough way. Sure she sucks but kids turned out just lovely. Wonderful how a narcissist (narcissists are always proud of everything about themselves even being narcissist) finds his actions completely wise, logical or in worst case "can't do anything about your nature and hormones".

      And than you read about women assuming no agency.

      But all is good, ur wise after all.

      [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

      Your only two rules are something about no aruging... I actually googled that you used expression and didn't find whatever it's even meant to meant. You mean one of your two rules are no aruging... you mean you want (think you deserve?) blind obedience (ah the narcissist part, yes I remember) and the other is about homework? Because the worst thing, after being second guessed is of course, your status being diminished by your kids bad grades lol what about being honest, non-manipulative, consistent, having an independent set of moral values (rather than treating people only as good as you must) etc.

      Good pickup. These are the type of parenting styles that create Cluster-B and Cluster-B-leaning personalities... "Do my will" and "What have you done for me lately?" Much more destructive when aimed at a weak child who depends on you completely.

      [–]bradbrookequincy 2 points3 points  (2 children)

      I have helped many tortured souls go through divorces where the spouse had and was abusing them and was going to be a irrational in the divorce. These people were going to get crushed. We turned every one of these situations around and got a fair outcome. The key was planning, knowledge of the law, and a great but calm lawyer. Another key component was not reacting to every emotional outburst. In fact pay no mind to what they do and realize it usually does not change the eventual outcome.

      [–]the_real_lunch_box 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      I'm so glad i didn't have to pay the price of a horrid divorce and court battles to learn there lessons. Than you for your post, so much to learn from here.

      [–]bitchpotatobunny 2 points3 points  (1 child)

      Thank you for this. This is a very well written, insightful, and objective post. I enjoyed the read. While I possess 18 years less experience than yourself, I can definitely relate to many of the points touched on here.

      There was one thing that I felt was slightly ambiguous and would appreciate clarification on.

      I currently spend no time pursuing women. Socially, I get on fine with them—I’m confident, funny and even charming, but for someone in my position, the cost-benefit of an LTR is highly questionable. For a marriage, it’s a piece of shit, unless she’s richer than me. The risk-benefit is even worse. If I did meet someone and we were making each other happier, then if she insisted on marriage, I hope that I would have the strength to walk away.

      Does this imply you've been monk mode for four years, or that you simply chose not to pursue, but have remained receptive to advances and are just not in the market for anything beyond physical? For example: Immediately following my divorce, I went rampant with plating. I recently got tired of it (not women in general, just the time and effort spent constantly pursuing plates) and decided to allocate my time towards both a fitness goal and a financial goal that I've set for myself. I'll still do one night stands here and there when they present themselves, but I no longer actively pursue (Actively meaning going out for the purpose of. I'll pursue a woman I find attractive if she's where I happen to be.) and I am not interested in bothering with plates right now. Is this similar to what you're describing?

      [–]adam142857[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      Yes. What you write is broadly where I am.

      The following are more rewarding for me than pursuing women: being with my children (they just get better with age if you start 'em right), engaging with my teaching (different level), skiing, travelling, working, investing, lifting, running, being with my buddies.

      But honestly, just waking up in peace is sublime.

      I've been monk, yes. Desire is returning, but after my experience, and in the current cultural and legal climate in the West, the likely outcomes of involvement may threaten the things that bring me joy now. So no thanks, ladies.

      For the present.

      [–]fruguy 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      Did anyone save the OP and can repost or send it to me?

      [–]King_Ov_Hell 2 points3 points  (1 child)

      Didn't have the opportunity to read the whole post and it got taken down. Why did it get deleted?

      [–]adam142857[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Automoderator bot deleted it. It will likely reappear.

      [–]RedPill_FightClub 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      Jesus Christ almighty... this forum needs MORE posts like this one. There's so much wisdom here..m thank you!

      [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      im 22 years old from the Balkans and i loved the Article Thank you so much for the contribution, please know that you have at least helped one person with this although i think its a lot more than that :)

      Thank you

      [–]SKRedPill 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      Salute. I agree. Our evolution and growth has ground to a halt and there aren't any principles in the mind anymore but the urges of lust. Unrestrained sexual instinct is dangerous and an unstable society has only a few generations left before a calamitous population, economic and social collapse and a hard reset. Femininity has gotten lost and masculinity stagnates. Concepts like devotion and trust are gone and confusion to the point of an identity crisis looms. And the obesity epidemic....

      This line was gold :- "....But if you want living proof that long-term marriage is now bad for men, next time you’re at your local shopping mall, or even walking in the park, observe closely the body language of the husband in the older couples you see. Study his face. In almost every instance, you will see careworn, melancholy impotence. He will be bowed, his spine gone. Often shuffling obediently a few paces behind his nagging wife, who is in total control, and exploiting it to the max. He is a tired servant, a spent force, a lap dog. A husk...."

      One correction, this is the fate of every boy I see just after his wedding day now...

      The Red Pill is a good awakening tool, but even it can't solve the problem of trust, and without trust, nothing from relationships to money will sustain. Most guys are still in the stages of unplugging and figuring out how to get laid and becoming a stronger man, but TRP IMHO can only evolve you so far. Humanity is still very unstable.

      [–]Adach 1 point2 points  (4 children)

      can you elaborate on what you mean by "a living teaching"? it sounds like some sort of buddhist idea or something

      [–]adam142857[S] 1 point2 points  (3 children)

      Yes, close. Not a religion, nor a philosophy, but a practical Way in life.

      If one has a real question--and it's rare--one will seek and eventually find a teaching.

      I hasten to add that being in a living teaching makes you in no sense better than or superior to others. It does make you more acutely aware of your own failings though.

      But for the purposes of this forum, it's a separate issue. Off-topic in other words.

      [–]Thephilhouse 1 point2 points  (2 children)

      I'm very curious to learn more about this, but I can't find anything on google, do you have a link or recommendation?

      [–]grimlocksgauntlet 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Bravo!

      Welcome to the decline of western civilization.

      Keep going; keep playing.

      [–]BenedictoBuendia 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Preach. I think we all needed this. Thank you.

      [–]Five_Decades 1 point2 points  (3 children)

      Can you elaborate on how bad post natal behavior translates into bad post menopause behavior? What is the connection?

      [–]adam142857[S] 5 points6 points  (2 children)

      Strong emotional urges come from hormonal changes. Big hormonal changes occur during menstruation, and during and after pregnancy. They also occur in menopause.

      I'm not a neuroscientist but I think it's to do with limbic regulation. This is the higher executive parts of the brain (the cortex, external parts) moderating strong emotional urges from the limbic region (a deeper, more basic part of the brain).

      Research indicates that borderline personality disorder and other cluster B personality disorders involving excessive emotional reactions are due to poor limbic regulation. The causes of this are believed to be partially inherited and partly due to upbringing.

      [–]Five_Decades 3 points4 points  (1 child)

      Thanks. I've read borderline behavior is tied to child neglect in the first two years of life, but didn't know about the hormonal connection.

      [–]adam142857[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      OK, not an expert on this. I've read the big trigger is a trauma in adolescence. For my ex, this would be the messy divorce of her parents, and some sexual abuse by a trusted adult.

      [–]MaserGrooveStuios 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      Hey OP, my father is in a LTR with a borderline woman. He is a self proclaimed narcissist and stuck in a truly toxic relationship. Deep down I know he wants out but he is trapped in a vicious co-dependency. Any advice on what I can say or do to help him see the light of day again?

      [–]adam142857[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      I'm not a therapist or counsellor, but I'm asking what would have helped me?

      I had got past codependency by the time we split. Coping with the adversity my ex constantly created made me self-reliant.

      The trigger to our separation and divorce was my ex having a fling with an old flame. I view this now as a power play, or perhaps from her perspective, some kind of attempt to 'wake me up' to the problems in our marriage. But by that time, the unending crises--created by her--had damaged me psychologically. I was a dead man walking. A self-reliant dead man.

      Thus weakened, any respect she had for me was gone. Enter the old flame.

      The positive transformation in me began when my ex and the separation counsellor we were seeing persuaded me that alternating each week in the family home, with our children residing there permanently, was a good precursor to separation. I had counterarguments, but the were rejected, and I was in a weakened state.

      Now, I'm very glad they were.

      A couple, who are neighbours and friends, and had both been on the receiving end of some poor treatment by their exes, agreed to put me up. I awoke after the second night of staying there feeling better than I had for at least 10 years. Relieved, unburdened.

      So everyone's circumstances are individual, but I suspect the solution lies somewhere with him realising that he can function alone.

      Maybe this begins with him moving out for a trial period.

      But caution: this is amateur advice.

      [–]ImatWorkfuck 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      Amen kind sir,amen. What are your favorite books for a younger man to read?

      [–]adam142857[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      I don't want to bias your thinking.

      I'd suggest asking yourself what experiences you want to have. They are richer than books.

      [–]grotton 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      "Who's Afraid Of Virginia Woolf?" Every guy I've ever met. Unlike George, though, you channeled the marital consternation into exercise rather than alcohol. The endorphins took you to a much higher plane than distilled juniper berries. I commend you.

      You provide this advice exactly as Prince Harry announced his engagement to his American cousin? Are you trying to warn his royal highness about the potential pitfalls of marrying an histrionic southern belle? The colonies produce quite a variety of panic button pokers.

      Do you strictly filter out women weighing over a certain count of stone and raising the undisciplined serial killers of tomorrow? Or are you merely judging those introduced to you as, for example, "a bit expansive in the bloomers" or "her son looks like a blooming Kray"?

      Where do you stand on hiring escorts? Obviously, if girls your age are unattractive for whatever reason, renting a hardbody with no strings might naturally cross the cranium. You can always buy the chubby mum dinner for conversation about old times but still have physical fun with a needy American college girl for a one time fee. You can't find a college girl who remembers John Major, for example. So, if you say something humourous about him...you get that blank stare.

      [–]huge_gap 1 point2 points  (2 children)

      Great post. Question: You say it's important to have kids but also to never get married. What's the best way to go about doing this while being a present father figure and raising strong human beings?

      [–]adam142857[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

      I think if it was possible to partner with someone who understood your concerns about marriage and the adverse consequences of divorce, and that we change with age, women especially, you might have the basis for jointly raising good children.

      The phrase "it takes a village to raise a child" is also popping up in my head right now. A close community will help promote health in the child's psychology by him/her being exposed to differing views.

      [–]Werewolf35b 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      I liked this post (alot) right up to the point where he recommended getting am asain wife.

      You know, so you can get treated like a man without actually having to be one

      [–]adam142857[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      Not wife. Partner. Do. Not. Get. Married.

      I think what's been said here is very true. You can build frame as much as you want, but you will have weaknesses.

      Chances are, if your woman has bought into your frame, she will treat you like a piece of shit when you wobble.

      Then, when you run into serious difficulty--and I promise you life will ensure that you do--she will just make things worse.

      [–]bundyburger1 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Great post, I have just finished dealing with a year long mess with a young bpd hottie, this woman's capacity for manipulation and cunning was quite frankly astounding and impressive if I am to be honest and the extent of which , I have only become aware of in hindsight.

      [–]Ananonguy88 1 point2 points  (2 children)

      26 years with BPD? I got destroyed and redpilled to the oblivion only after 2 years. Holy shit man, I'm not even sure if I can read this.

      [–]adam142857[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Yes, I'm still hurting 4 years on.

      I do lots of cool shit, but honestly, it's a sublime joy just to wake up in peace in my apartment on my own.

      [–]bickisnotmyname 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Please, dear god keep posting.

      [–]your____mother 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      That was a beautiful contribution, sir, thank you for it.

      Only thing that stands out, no mention of sex matters post divorce whatsoever, except: "I currently spend no time pursuing women."

      Desire still there? Game, plates, pay6, whatever? None?

      [–]adam142857[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      The following are more rewarding for me than pursuing women: being with my children (they just get better with age if you start 'em right), engaging with my teaching (different level), skiing, travelling, working, investing, being with my buddies. Hell, even waking up in peace is sublime.

      Four years on, I'm still recovering from a very difficult marriage, and the divorce was hellish. But. I. Fucking. Won. Against ALL the odds. So that feels fantastic.

      Desire is returning, but after my experience, and in the current cultural and legal climate in the West, the likely outcomes of involvement may threaten the things that bring me joy now. So no thanks, ladies.

      For the present.

      [–]VickVaseline 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Wow! It's great to hear from a fellow 'oldie' here. I'm 57.

      I’ve been in a spiritual teaching for nearly 20 years.

      encountering a living teaching

      What are these things? Are you talking about religion?

      Spotting a borderline. Well documented online, but worth repeating: If she exhibits emotional lability, mimicking you in clothing and mannerisms, has fraught interpersonal relationships, psychological crises, cooks up friction and arguments out of nothing, constantly changes her mind etc., end it immediately.

      Sorry, but you just described every girl ever born.

      If you’re cohabiting with your children’s mother, I would advise living in separate homes by the time the children reach about age 13. You’ll be a far better influence on them without her diluting, distorting and contradicting the guidance you give them.

      I don't know about the UK specifically, but in most of the West, your children would be with her, not you.

      Your post is solid and I love it. I'm looking forward to more from you.

      [–]darealarms 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      This is a rare gem on this sub. Absolutely love hearing from your experience and the positivity/can-do attitude you embody.

      [–]Ausin3 1 point2 points  (5 children)

      The comments are praising this post however it's been removed, what was the gist of it?

      [–][deleted]  (1 child)

      [deleted]

        [–]1GreenPiller 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Thanks for this inspiring post, if young men would actually have a chat with older men things would drastically improve.

        [–]michael_wilkins 1 point2 points  (1 child)

        Thanks mate.

        Almost feel bad for what my country is doing to your country on the cricket field at the moment.

        [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children)

        Your post is full of good stuff, I am also around 50 and I have endured the brutality of a BPD partner. To me it is just another version of crazy. Pretty much 100% of attractive women have some sort of mental illness and pretty much 100% of cool guys are also crazy. It is about finding the right type of crazy for you. Yes when a BPD woman turns, and begins gaslighting and trying to destroy you, herself and everything around her it is a fearsome and horrible thing to deal with. However there is an upside to these women. Mine was perfectly loyal and an ideal partner in every way for 20 years, then hey presto, batshit crazy.

        I have had family and friends who had wives for decades who gradually broke them down while cheating, other guys whose wives drained their soul and their wallets, others who have a boring and miserable existence. Humans are not monogamous so you should enter any LTR knowing that it will become unsatisfying, explosive, abusive, boring or just end unhappily. In my single years I have been with lots of women, most of them crazy. Bipolar, codependent, narcissists, pathological liars, insecure princesses, and a few others which escape easy classification. If you want a girl who is not damaged or crazy, get a girl with below average looks, nice parents and above average intelligence. These girls are everywhere, but it is near impossible to get a hard on for them.

        [–]adam142857[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

        If you want a girl who is not damaged or crazy, get a girl with below average looks, nice parents and above average intelligence. These girls are everywhere, but it is near impossible to get a hard on for them.

        I think there's a good life partner in there. Pretty but not stunning, feminine, good family, with commonsense rather than educated intelligence.

        [–]Rodion-Raskolnikov 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Weapons grade plutonium advice. Just awesome. I’m 46 and my wife also turned into Susie from Curb your Enthusiasm. Total fucking monster.

        [–]p3n1x 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        hey go out of their way to introduce me to overweight, unattractive divorcees, usually with two or three children in tow. They appear to expect me to instantly fall in love,

        You were once a trained dog, how dare you leave your cage? Their brains cannot conceive that you unplugged from the Matrix.

        Misandry - you are a helpless stupid man. You can't survive without the amazing foundation of abusive vagina.(UK being a cherry on top)

        [–]thebluesSV 1 point2 points  (1 child)

        I would read a book written by OP. I hope you have a chance to give us more advice, I would be very happy if I could shoot you some pm´s for advice.

        [–]adam142857[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Please collect your thoughts and PM if you want to. I'll try to answer.

        [–]1PantsonFire1234 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        I was kind of expecting more on the experiences you had with a borderline. 26 years is allot of time to spend with one, I didn't tolerate mine for a year. Thankfully I seem to have the type of personality BPD's love but can't handle longer than a short period of time.

        Anyway the problem with assessing a BPD woman is that you aren't dealing with a binary type of women. BPD come in all sizes, styles and types. Due to my ex I figured every BPD woman was a slut, violent and shallow. Then I met a 21 year old virgin who pretty much fit the bill. And she was nothing like her. Meanwhile there are stories of guys who handle them for 21 years while my ex wasn't even tolerabele for a year, nor did she tolerate me. It's even bizar that I have to call her an ex because from all the women I spent time with, my connection with her appeared to be the most insignificant.

        And another problem is that allot of guys love and match well with BPD women. Be it a codependent or a narcissist, BPD women have something for everyone. And to be honest the only way you can truly handle one is by having pure distilled psychopathy and experience with the cycle. When you meet a girl and things just 'feel right' that very moment and you're already touching, flirting and almost behaving like a couple you know you are with one. Normal women go slower and judge more tactfully. A BPD can like one thing about you and she will overvalue everything as a consequence.

        [–]beg82 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        I have two much elder sisters both with BPD. One of them fits the mould described here perfectly and has and will ruin lives. The other one is a far cry from evil but instead just does not know how to navigate relations or her emotions.

        What I'm saying is that individual differences should be considered. By all means, be wary but I think the advice (stemming from someone who appears wise yet biased) to not touch the BPD persona with a barge pole overlooks the possibility (and indeed evidence) that these people can, with support/ maturation etc. be viable long term partners. They can learn to love and be loved.

        The goal should be to discern the salvable from the not.

        [–][deleted]  (8 children)

        [removed]

        [–]adam142857[S] 2 points3 points  (7 children)

        Borderlines, personality disorders or any of the rest of it wasn't in public awareness in the 1980s when I met my ex. I was also more raging hormones and less experience. She was hot and exciting, and we went at it for seven years straight. We started a business, had children, and things got tougher. The troughs got deeper and more dramatic, although there some great years even late on.

        My advice against marriage applies borderline or no.

        Women change, usually for the worse, many marriages end in divorce, usually filed by women, and men get killed in the divorce courts. Ergo men shouldn't get married.

        [–]askmrcia 2 points3 points  (1 child)

        Always good when the old guys chime in. I'll add my two cents. I see way too many guys flossing over girls for LTRs and marriages just because she has a nice ass.

        I bet majority of users here who experienced a bad breakup was with some chick because she had a nice ass and gave them good sex. That's it. So OP you made a bad choice when it came to marrying this chick. Flat the fuck out.

        When you think about it, those types of relationships are bound to fail. I can speak on this, because when I think of the past girls I seriously dated with the exception of one, they all brought just sex to the table.

        Yea, they were fun to be around sometimes when going on some date or activity, but that shit goes away REALLY fast after the first month or so. After that, its just sex and that's it.

        I dated a BPD and like anyone who has been with one, its best to move away as fast as you can. They are crazy and manipulative. I know we preach here that's typical female nature, well no. BPD is like super sayian 3 female nature. It gets much worse as you can see in OP's post.

        What I was getting at though, was even when I was with her it was really the sex that was good and that's it. Like I said, sure the activities we did together was cool (baseball games, dinners, miniature golf, ect..) but that shit gets old FAST.

        Final point, is if you guys are looking for a LTR or marriage (for the record I'm not), at least do yourself a favor and look past her tits and ass.

        [–]wastelandchic 4 points5 points  (0 children)

        When you think about it, those types of relationships are bound to fail. I can speak on this, because when I think of the past girls I seriously dated with the exception of one, they all brought just sex to the table. Yea, they were fun to be around sometimes when going on some date or activity, but that shit goes away REALLY fast after the first month or so. After that, its just sex and that's it.

        This. When the mask of sanity starts to slip and they actually realize they are slowly being unmasked whether via penetrating questions to which they have no response or conflicting or highly volatile behavior, they themselves realize they do in fact only bring sex to the table owing to their total lack of well defined inner self.

        [–]meaningintragedy 1 point2 points  (5 children)

        Really nice post, thanks a lot.

        The only point I don't agree with is:

        but remain MGTOW/monk and you will take yourself out of the gene pool, a derogation of evolutionary duty

        So what? What's wrong with refusing to heed the call of the so called evolutionary duty?

        [–]adam142857[S] 5 points6 points  (4 children)

        Briefly, I've come to see that life is not given, but has to be paid for. We pay our debt of life by reproducing for nature.

        [–]MylesNorth 1 point2 points  (2 children)

        I also took issue with this part of your post. This concept of inherent debt is a mental fabrication and toe-hold for your ego.

        A proponent of a non-dual, living philosophy, will 'recognize the emperor in the crowded marketplace.' Which is to say, the subconscious faith in some kind of "life debt" to the void that can only be repayed with your own progeny is really egoism.

        How many great Zen masters have had thousands of awakened children which weren't their own? Did they fail to repay this debt you speak of?

        [–]adam142857[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

        My view is that there are two streams--nature and consciousness.

        The debt for your life, granted by nature is repaid by you reproducing.

        Consciousness is what you strive for, through education, deliberate efforts towards an aim, struggling willingly and so forth.

        The two go in opposite directions, but both are necessary.

        Ego will always be there, it manifests in all sorts of ways that I can't control. I can perhaps transcend it in moments. But then it returns.

        I notce a large gap in the language and terminology we are using. I hope what I've written here makes some sense.

        [–]MylesNorth 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Well written and thoughtful, thanks for replying.

        However, your theory of two separate streams is a lot of conjecture to place on top of an unnamable and uncategorizable reality.

        What's more, you then add to this 'two stream theory' the concept of a debt owed by oneself which can only be repayed by reproducing your own genetic line. This strikes me as a convenient theory for someone that made the irreversible decision to have children.

        You are also implying that the many monks, Zen masters, Christian, Sufi and Judaic hermits, et al and the many thousands of childless people of the world today still owe this debt, whereas you have repaid it threefold. Again, convenient.

        Adding to this, in practical reality, you are not fulfilling a debt to nature with this act, but the opposite; you are encumbering it dreadfully. The tonnage of resources of every variety your three children will consume throughout their lifetime is tremendous. And for what? So that you could feel fulfilled as an individual? Feel as though you have contributed? These thoughts are pure conjecture.

        I do not feel the weight of the debt you have imagined.

        Regarding the omnipresence of egoity, we'll have to table that for a more proper forum, feel free to message me directly if you'd like to take up that line.

        [–]borderlineactivity 0 points1 point  (12 children)

        This. Is. So. Demeaning.

        I (27) am a recovering borderline, and reading this post and the comments that follow is so very hurtful. There is help and healing for borderlines who seek treatment. To put one GIANT label on every borderline woman is just asinine. I’m sorry your relationship was so awful that it ended your marriage, but that’s not destined to happen to every single person with this disorder. There are some shitty human beings that have borderline, there are also A LOT of shitty human beings without borderline. It’s one thing to covey your own story, it’s another to put down and entire group of people because of a trauma based illness.

        [–]Phoenixtorment 7 points8 points  (0 children)

        I (27 f) am a recovering borderline, and reading this post and the comments that follow is so very hurtful.

        Realise this reaction of yours is inherent to borderline defense mechanism.

        [–]out_looking_in 11 points12 points  (0 children)

        I'm guessing you are not familiar with TRP and that maybe you were somehow notified of this thread due to "borderline" being in the title.

        There is help and healing for borderlines who seek treatment.

        Sure, but they almost never do. When they do, they rarely will follow through. Often she will feel like the therapist is wrong because she doesn't like what they are saying, or somehow manufacture conflict between herself and the therapist.

        It’s one thing to covey your own story, it’s another to put down and entire group of people because of a trauma based illness.

        It's not about "putting down" an entire group of people. It's about rational self interest. It's about avoiding relationships that will turn dysfunctional, or psychologically/emotionally abusive--and dating a woman with BPD creates and incredibly high risk of things going in that direction.

        Are you saying that, when selecting a mate, that a man should make no consideration about whether or not a woman is borderline?

        [–]bickisnotmyname 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        It doesn’t really change the value of his advice. Dating people with any type of mental health issues is more difficult than dating someone without them. That is a simple reality. It doesn’t mean they’re a better or worse person, but the relationship will be more troubled. Given the choices, one is a logically more sound choice.

        You are seeing this from a place of emotional attachment to your condition and ego investment in the defence of it. The OP also has an emotional interest in the attack of borderlines. Neither of you are right nor wrong.

        [–]wastelandchic 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        A trauma-based illness the further propagates mental illness in the vast majority of those [read: victims] who are exposed to its most virulent, unseemly and disordered qualities. The vast majority of borderlines REFUSE to accept that something is amiss, and if they do, they'll almost universally assign blame to their partners, friends, family, etc. Glad you're in treatment. Hope you can stick it out and improve.

        [–]hb8only 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        I (27) am a recovering borderline, and reading this post and the comments that follow is so very hurtful.

        Life Pro TIP: don't take internet forums very seriously and your life will be way better...

        [–]Mako_One 3 points4 points  (2 children)

        First: Respect the Rules. We don‘t care about your fucking gender. There is no more wisdom within your words, because you’re a woman. Your point of view will be valued if you contribute with value.

        Concerning your comment: So you’re currently a mentally ill person, which is giving us - within the TRP Sub - tips, that not every other mentally ill person is a pain in the ass for us rational males, a huge risk, dangerous and should be respected - shut one eye - with humility and as a human, despite they are crazy trash and will cause a huge chaos in our lives. In addition you’re telling us, that your feelz have been hurt. Are you fucking kidding me?

        The TRUTH does not fucking care about your feelings. In other words: You have no power here.

        Go get somewhere else trying to guilt trip someone. We don’t give a fuck.

        It’s actually good, that you feelz are hurt. That means, we’re right, because you are the target group and we want you to stay back from us. We minimize risk. We and especially OP don’t need your compassionate expression of pity.

        Here’s some advice: Go read the fucking rules! Do you really think, that you - as a mentally ill person AND a women which is clearly not able to think rational - as you proved, are at the right place within this sub? You have a lot of construction going on. You better fix up your shit first, before you come back. And then - we still do not care about your gender.

        [–]borderlineactivity 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Such a dense tough guy. Congrats on the time you wasted writing that nonsense. I didn’t come searching for this group. The original post (which is now deleted...hmm) popped into my feed because it was about BPD. Also, I actually am ‘fixing up my shit’, you may want to consider doing the same.

        In the meantime keep posting this bs so the whole female gender knows to avoid you.

        [–]1980srobot 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Utter horse shit. I feel like I have to apologise on behalf of mankind for this pathetic excuse of a bloke.

        [–]booyah2 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Fuck borderlines you use your condition as an excuse to ruin people's lives

        [–]Skyhawk_And_Skyhead 1 point2 points  (1 child)

        Good. You're recovering. Follow through with treatment and be the best person you can be to overcome your own struggles. I have had to overcome mental issues of my own. It's tough, but everyone is better off for it.

        [–]Doomfox81 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        well said my man, good luck out there

        [–]ShirDesEnzer 0 points1 point  (1 child)

        In what ways would you recommend to enhance my mental and spiritual strength? Is meditation enough? Any additional ways you can offer?

        [–]Backuponit2017 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        This was a very insightful post. Kudos to you for living your life as you wanted it!

        [–]anon2777 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        this is a hell of a post. reminds me of TRP years ago

        [–]napsterpepper 0 points1 point  (5 children)

        What is your advice for a 26 years old male who got out of a 6 years long LTR with a BDP? I want dating woman now and I can't believe that they are not crazy. It's like I want to ask them "wait, you are not crazy? when are you going to scream and make a scene?". I have a stable girl that I'm seeing now, but should I keep enjoying the single lifestyle until I hit around 30? I don't want to give her false hopes, but she's nice too. I just feel like I need my freedom and travel alone.

        [–]adam142857[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

        Just walk from the BPD. I wouldn't marry the nice girl either, but if you make each other happier, then there may be stability there. If that's what you both want.

        [–]DayTradingBastard 2 points3 points  (3 children)

        My ex-girlfriend of 2 years was a borderline. Once you date one, you can see the signs very easily, and thus it's easy to spot crazy vs normal. With my ex, the signs were there from the second date.

        My current girlfriend is just an amazing girl - 21 years old, amazing body (former tennis pro), easily a 9.5 when it comes to looks (been asked to model multiple times), and incredibly intelligent and emotionally mature. When she has a negative emotional reaction to something I've done or said she doesn't freak out; instead is able to deal with it like an adult and talk and set a boundary or explain why she got hurt.

        She doesn't go clubbing and is more of the introverted/homebody type. She also goes to a top university and is going for a Ph.D. I honestly think she's a unicorn.

        My main rule when I went back into the dating pool was: eject on any signs of crazy or personality disorders. And I went out with over 30 girls before I found this one. So there's hope.

        Now, I'm 31 and my success with gorgeous/amazing girls is just massive compared to what it was when I was younger. So if you want a unicorn I suggest you wait - otherwise you'll be stuck with the 7s-8s of the world.

        [–]Phoenixtorment 7 points8 points  (2 children)

        I honestly think she's a unicorn.

        Welcome to the redpill, please start at the sidebar.

        [–]Vendettos 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Lmao solid advice here thumbs up

        [–]baron_vladimir 0 points1 point  (3 children)

        Dude, I had never heard about borderline-narcissist couples. I'm just reading about this and it makes SO much fucking sense.

        I had somewhat learned this about myself reflecting on my past relationships, but reading it explained so clearly is great.

        Thanks!

        [–]1PantsonFire1234 2 points3 points  (2 children)

        BPD's often try with a psychopath (but it never works, AF) then opt for a NPD which often times works out, should she be very difficult and prove unable to handle or accept the NPD she will settle for a BPD like herself (male BPD's exist) or a co-dependant.

        The psychopath best triggers her feelz and tingles but her desire for control to relieve her of her anxiety (BPD's are shitscared of abandonment) will overtake her and she will leave to prevent further hurt. An NPD is much more controllable for most BPD's although less fun/attractive. Some BPD's can't handle the insecurity still and instead opt for the pure beta bucks of all disorders. Which is a BPD male. They are easily chased down. If all else fails she will settle with a co-dependent who was raised by BPD/NPD parents and knows his place.

        [–]smokecheck1976 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Mostly true, but I do want to correct one small detail. Love is not a set of chemicals in your brain, that would be lust. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that at some level the feeling you get when looking a gorgeous woman is related to the feeling you get when looking at a hot car or anything else your heart of hearts desires on a chemical/hormonal level. Love, however, is a choice and it is actions taken based on that choice. There are always two partners in a marriage, and I know firsthand what is like when the marriage enters it's slow death spiral, it can be saved but it takes the commitment and work of both parties to do so, and all too often one really isn't interested in making it work any more and doesn't bother to be honest with the other one.

        Coming from someone that was at the 16 year mark when everything turned to absolute shit, I know where you are coming from, and you are overall in a good place. I have much the same happen to me. A friend talks up her friend and introduces me to a fat woman with someone elses kids who acts nice to me but I can tell really isn't just by the lines on her face and the look in her eye. It's gotten to the point that I don't date friends of friends and I told them why.

        [–]The-Peter-Principle 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Great writing, great read and accurate. I particularly agree with your assertions on the tendencies for TRP to become dogmatic for some.

        [–]afsroot 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Thank you for sharing your thoughts and experiences. Very helpful and valuable to me having just turned 26 and annoyed by the quality of women I meet

        [–][deleted]  (3 children)

        [deleted]

        [–]adam142857[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

        1. Study abroad=great experience.
        2. Your accent will give you a boost with women in the UK especially. You're young, approach the ones you're attracted to.
        3. I think you need to find someone who's prepared to make a sensible agreement about child rearing without marriage. But hell, don't even think about kids till you're 27-30.
        4. Good degree choice. Get a master's ins something real (econometrics?MBA?)from the best school you can get into. My eldest is doing his master's in maths & computer sci at a global top 10 school, his debt will be high but repayment is easy here in the UK. Think about career options other than the conventional ones. Think about start-ups or multiple projects. Proceed from what you want out of life rather than a salary number.

        [–]adam142857[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Also don't get married. Ever.

        [–]vicious_armbar 0 points1 point  (1 child)

        Why should anyone take advice regarding women from you?! You married a borderline, willingly had children with her, then stayed with her for a quarter of a century!!!

        [–]adam142857[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Borderlines, personality disorders or any of the rest of it wasn't in public awareness in the 1980s when we met. I was also more raging hormones and less experience. She was hot and exciting, and we went at it for seven years straight. We started a business, had children, and things got tougher. The troughs got deeper and more dramatic, although there some great years even late on.

        My advice against marriage applies borderline or no.

        Women change, many marriages end in divorce, and you will get killed in the divorce courts. Ergo don't get married.

        [–][deleted]  (1 child)

        [deleted]

        [–]Sinbad_07 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Great Post OP. Very Informative and though provoking for us young guys. I look forward to hopefully more post from you to come.

        [–]Anbu422 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Thanks for posting this, great read. I'm disappointed that it is removed.

        load more comments (49 replies)