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Red Pill TheoryReminder: Neediness is THE Most Unattractive Trait (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by becoolstaynschool

Often times when giving advice to new guys just starting out, the general mantra is, "Be confident, have abundance, increase SMV, don't be needy". The first and most important of these by far is minimizing neediness.

There are so many times in the past where i've fucked things up being needy. At first the girl was interested and excited to hang out, then due to the fact that I was constantly hitting her up and inviting her out, that excitement and attraction faded INSTANTLY.

Oneitis and abundance mentality aside, there's a reason that RSDTyler has said "The best thing to do when you find a girl you really like is to find five others."; the dynamic in a relationship (guys and girls) entirely revolves around value and investment.

By texting those girls, and further by inviting them to hang out on the weekends instead of letting them initiate first, I demonstrated that I was overly invested in them and they lost interest. On the flipside, if I went out and spread my time and attention among other girls, the scarcity of my attention and investment becomes more apparent and thus the attraction continues and increases.

Needy things you do and need to cut out ASAP:

  • CONSISTENTLY texting her first.

Don't bullshit yourself--girls have their phone on them and are using them literally 24/7. If you've initiated first in the past and have went out before, then leave the initiating to them. If a girl is interested she can and will text first. By hitting her up first all the time you're showing that you're way too invested. If you absolutely have to text her first (you don't), leave at least two weeks between contact minimum.

  • Getting mad when she flakes or doesn't want to be with you

She doesn't want to come out tonight? WHO FUCKING CARES?? Doesn't matter if she was your only option, your reaction should be "Alright have a good night!" and go out yourself or with someone else. A girl or (guy) is and should simply be a positive addition to your life, not the sole component in whether or not you can go out and do things.

Conclusion: Build yourself into something other people can invest in and be reluctant to invest in others. Be a fucking man and realize that the only person you need to focus on is yourself.


[–][deleted] 188 points189 points  (93 children)

And on this line of thinking it's just as important to remember that the MOST important key to being attractive is NOT doing unattractive things. Doesn't matter how literally attractive you are if you keep doing UNATTRACTIVE things. ALL your upside can be wiped clean with one downside.

[–][deleted] 63 points64 points  (82 children)

Dude, no kidding.

How does someone identify what they're doing that's unattractive?

Over the last 10 or so years I've realized how many issues I've had that need to be worked on and I've been all over the place and have gotten about the same lack of success:

  • Down to 200 lbs from 265 at my worst.
  • Started dressing/grooming better.
  • Quit playing video games religiously.
  • Started down a career path in IT that paid well, but it fueled the depression so I abandoned it.
  • Been aloof about my intentions.
  • Been honest and upfront about my intentions.
  • When I wanted short, sexual relationships, I looked for women who signaled that.
  • When I wanted relationships, I looked for women looking for relationships.
  • I've tried to be more honest and expressive with my emotions, to being more stoic and withholding them.

It seems like I was doing better at 20 than I am approaching 30.

[–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor 101 points102 points  (9 children)

Been aloof about my intentions.

No no no. Be direct with your intentions. You can't close without showing desire. Be aloof with your commitment. You want it! But you can take it or leave it.

I looked for women who signaled that.

AWALT. The problem here is you are trying to find unicorns instead of shaping your battlefield. Want and pursue short, sexual relationships with ALL women you find attractive. Quickly and politely move on from those that don't respond. They owe you nothing. You owe them nothing.

[–]PreOrgasmGroanLness 13 points14 points  (2 children)

This. My issue is I don't recognize neediness before it's too late. There's a lot of posts on how you shouldn't be needy, but there are very few examples on what is needy behaviour or texts. For example it seems to me as if all my Tinder texts are needy. I have no idea how to do it differently and no idea what am I doing wrong

[–]RedwallAllratuRatbar 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If you are being needy, you feel this. If you think hard what to tell, in order not to "lose" her, you are being needy. On the other hand, everyone is needy, just successful people have enough plates to satisfy this hunger

[–]Toker95 2 points3 points  (2 children)

How are you worse when you're older. Something went wrong somewhere

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Agreed. Still figuring it out. I did plan to become a Marine when I was 21/22, which I don't think was a bad path to take, but I never completely committed to it or signed the contract. Living with my mom for as long as I did around that time didn't help. Even though she was supportive, it wasn't what I needed in my life.

I think I realized something was wrong and went to focus on the wrong things to fix.

It's like troubleshooting a problem with a car. You think you know the problem but don't properly diagnose the issue, you start replacing parts that aren't causing the problem, yet your car still has trouble starting. Eventually you get to the point where there are many quality components to the car and yet the original issue is still getting worse.

Eventually you find the problem and everything clicks, starts running smoothly and you start rapidly accelerating.

[–]Eulerbrah 1 point2 points  (56 children)

what's with "quit video games" bullshit that is being thrown around???

[–]OhhDatDogOMine 40 points41 points  (3 children)

He said "Quit playing video games religiously." Meaning he was addicted.

[–][deleted] 20 points21 points  (2 children)

wouldn't say I was addicted, but I have sunk a ridiculous amount of time into call of duty and battlefield. Yet that's probably what an addict would say.

I just realized one day that games stopped being fun.

[–]truedemocracy3 16 points17 points  (15 children)

It's a zero-add activity. Feel free to play video games - but recognize it for what it is.

[–]TheTruthHelps 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Personally I use video games to stay in touch with a few of my friends that I only see during summer and winter breaks. It's probably twice a month that I'll sit down for 3 hours to catch up with the gang.

[–]truedemocracy3 0 points1 point  (0 children)

nah man it's totally worth it in that regard. Especially as you grow up and live in different cities. I love games, I just only use it after long days of productivity to unwind

[–]RipNEX -3 points-2 points  (12 children)

Training for your reaction time and brain overall, improving decision making, improving social skills and a good way to reduce stress?

[–]truedemocracy3 35 points36 points  (5 children)

Rationalization and bullshit is all the above is. Reduce stress, sure. That's why I said in moderation.

[–]NitricTV 3 points4 points  (2 children)

It does improve reaction time but that’s only twitch shooters really

[–]sd4c 6 points7 points  (1 child)

No it doesn't. Generalized Reaction time is a factor of IQ, gender, health, and stress. That's why good race car drivers, pro boxers, and pro video game players are almost all young men, and will always smoke their older, future selves. IQ, and health, decline with age.

[–]NitricTV -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

It can be maintained via video games

[–]DisciplineOverDrive 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Reduces stress, sure.

Even that is hardly true anymore. I think the sooner young men find alternative hobbies the better. It's not that you can't be a baller if you play video games but latching onto them is showing lack of abundance, in my opinion. It's more of a placeholder until you find more interesting, rewarding, and beneficial shit to be doing with your free time.

[–]truedemocracy3 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yea exactly man. You cant possibly rationalize it as a beneficial hobby. That doesnt mean get rid of video games or stop playing them if you enjoy them. But dont act like you are building your reflex skills or social skills because you talk to 15 year olds online while playing them. It's a zero add activity. Which again, is fine, similar to watching Netflix for hours which the average millennial does anyway.

But if you want to be exceptional then cut it out as a hobby and use that time for something else. I'll play games every now and then, but if I log on the Xbox and play 2-3 hours I feel like an idiot after because of that time sink.

[–]juliusstreicher 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Damn! Who needs to work, lift, or go to school! All anybody ever needs is some Video Games!

[–]Azhf 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I know this is a month old comment now, but I have time enough to go to school, lift, got a part-time job, and still find time for other hobbies, browsing the internet (mostly when I'm waiting for stuff), but most relevantly plenty of time to game with buds.

[–]sd4c 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Yeah that would be judo, jiujitsu, or wrestling. Not videogames.

[–]RipNEX 2 points3 points  (1 child)

There are countless of studies which prove these effects by playing videogames.

[–]sd4c 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No, dude. That improves reaction time IN THAT GAME, or pretty similar games. Generalized knowledge, is mostly a myth.

Otherwise SFV pros, would be unstoppable strikers, in real life.

They ain't.

[–]sd4c 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Make life your video game. We've got character customization, different language packs, fighting styles, tons of really cool weapons, and vehicles that would blow your mind.

[–]FerrusMan 26 points27 points  (33 children)

Simply put, a man playing video games is not sexually attractive to a woman. You can play them, you can play them all you want, just don't do them in front of your woman.

A woman watching a man play video games is like a man watching a woman eating big macs. It's that repulsive. It's how the sexual dynamics work. And I love playing video games.

[–]truedemocracy3 9 points10 points  (0 children)

This is true. Not only is it 'not sexually attractive', but it is actually UNATTRACTIVE to women (where if you mention it as a hobby they will be repulsed).

Even if I'm playing video games I wont tell a chick I'm gaming.

[–]BaronIncognito 9 points10 points  (8 children)

It depends. I know a guy who plays video games in front of his wife all the time, always has. But is a VP at his company and makes mid six figures and come from a very wealthy family. If your SMV is high enough, you can do whatever you want. In addition to being rich he is tall, athletic and extremely personable.

In the flip side if you are teetering in the edge of whether a woman thinks you are high enough value to commit to, your video gaming could be exactly the thing for her to justify ditching you.

All this assumes it is not a girl gamer. Obviously with them, your gaming will have different effects on SMV. It all depends on context.

[–]Eulerbrah 14 points15 points  (6 children)

this is bullshit. honestly. be tall, handsome, make six-figure ..etc so that "your girl" won't mind? fuck what she wants. be a fuckin man and do whatever the fuck you want.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (4 children)

be tall, handsome, make six-figure ..etc so that "your girl" won't mind?

Yep, that's his beta brain talking. We all have one and that tries to talk to us sometimes.

[–]BaronIncognito 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Educate me then. What did I say that was "beta"?

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (2 children)

"Tall, handsome, making six figure" are all secondary traits. Succumbing to SOMEONE ELSE's secondary traits is a beta attitude. Note - I'm not insulting you, trust me I've been there. I know beta has bad connotation but to be more "alpha" we have to have awareness on what we say/do are "beta". My 2 cents.

[–]BaronIncognito 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I didn't take it as an insult, I was genuinely curious and I appreciate the discussion. In this case though, it's his wife that is succumbing to his traits, no? He may have beta bux, but he is pretty alpha. I was just arguing that his extremely high SMV gives him more leeway to engage in unattractive behaviors (video gaming) than a guy that is a borderline 6 and barely making ends meet. A lot chicks would hang on to my friend for dear life even if he was playing WoW 6 hours a day. The second guy will get kicked to curb and/or cheated on in a heartbeat and her girlfriends will tell her she made the right choice because he was always playing video games. Again, context is king.

[–]FerrusMan 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm sure there are nfl players who play video games, and have plenty of women throwing themselves at them.

The point is, if you are here, learning red pill, you aren't one of those guys.

[–]ambientwhisper123 18 points19 points  (20 children)

With respect this is bullshit. Not taking into account the fact that your time would be much better spent elsewhere, if you're passionate about something you should express it and put it out into the world.

It doesnt matter what you like doing with your time, as long as you own it and dont care what people think about it women will respond favourably to it. Stamp collecting, video games, being one of those weird guys that walk along beaches with a metal detector, it doesn't matter. Women are emotional creatures and will sense and appreciate your passion.

[–]truedemocracy3 31 points32 points  (13 children)

Nope. Passion is attractive, but only if there are social or monetary gains from it. Building a game app to be sold on the app store? That's attractive. Opening a video game arcade bar? That's attractive.

Playing Xbox for 5 hours even if it's your passion? Not attractive. Absolutely unattractive.

[–]Vulgar_Wanderer 28 points29 points  (1 child)

on the flipside, not playing video games even if you enjoy them because you want to impress women with all your 'interesting' hobbies goes against the core principles of TRP.

If you're significantly cutting down on or completely quitting video games, it should be because you want to spend that time doing things that will help you to improve as a person, not because you want to impress others.

[–]truedemocracy3 7 points8 points  (0 children)

This is the ultimate chicken and egg part of TRP though. However, I agree that you should live for yourself.

[–]ambientwhisper123 9 points10 points  (4 children)

I disagree completely, whatever your passion is, own it and women will appreciate it. If your passion is playing games and you hide it from women because you think it makes you more attractive you're missing the whole point of this thing. You're just adding more imaginary barriers and excuses between yourself and the women you want to be with.

'I cant do what im passionate about because she wont like me waaahhh' - This is pussy think, its pathetic. You're letting someone else's frame dictate yours.

'I'm passionate about this and I dont care what anyone else thinks of it' - Is an attitude that women will respect and be attracted to.

You're looking at things too literally because you're a man. In your mind, of course flying planes is more interesting than playing games but remember, women are emotional creatures. The fact that you're passionate about something is more important than what you're passionate about. It allows them to feel that emotional high from you, they're drawn to emotion and attracted to guys that can make them feel.

A woman doesn't want the perfect man, she wants the man thats perfectly fine with himself...but being tall, good looking and rich helps a lot.

[–]BaronIncognito 2 points3 points  (0 children)

So if your passion is fucking anime pillows women will be cool with it as long as you’re passionate about it and maintain frame? Of course they won’t be. Many women view video games almost as bad. Is it fair? Nope. Just the way it is. Again, though, if you’re value is high enough they will tolerate it, or if your value is super high they might even make themselves get into it too. It’s all about context.

[–]truedemocracy3 8 points9 points  (2 children)

The Red Pill is about revealing the truth behind gender dynamics, that doesn't mean you have to be a slave to it. Fact is women respond to things such as being in shape, social proof, wealth, adventure, etc. If you want women, work on those things (and no that isn't 'breaking frame', though you should do it for yourself primarily but this sub wouldn't exist if that was solely the case). If you don't care about maximizing your SMV/RMV and are content in some areas that is fine too, just realize it is a trade off you have to take. Almost no one engages in SMV positive behavior 100% of the time.

TRP is about RECOGNIZING how the game is structured. It is up to you on HOW to play it. And in no way is being passionate about video games a positive. The best hobbies in terms of social validation (men, women, family, whatever) should do one of three things: Improve your body, improve your mind, improve your financial standing, improve your social standing. Some hobbies/passions even do multiple of these at once.

Video games does none of them. It's the same as saying you're passionate about Netflix, or passionate about Reddit. Play games all you want and DONT FEEL BAD ABOUT IT but don't rationalize it as something a woman will be interested in because you are passionate. That's bullshit.

[–]ambientwhisper123 -1 points0 points  (1 child)

I dont think you're understanding what I'm saying brother. You're not seeing this from a woman's perspective and you're treating this forum like a step by step walkthrough rather than a guide.

I guarantee if all other things are equal, a woman will be more attracted to a man who speaks passionately about video games than a man who speaks as if he's bored about flying planes. The emotion you give them is more important than the content. This is why you can speak complete shit to them on nights out and still have them be attracted to you. Its the delivery, the emotion. The boring, too serious club owner will be less attractive than the exciting, funny and charismatic random guy.

I'm not saying you should disregard raising your SMV as thats hugely important, I dont play games anymore for this reason. Its a very, very hard thing to accept that you have everything that you need to attract women within yourself right now, it means that the only thing holding you back from doing it is you. If you place arbitrary barriers on yourself 'Oh I cant pull until after I cut this fat' - 'I need a better job before women will be attracted to me' then you'll need those things before you can attract women.

[–]truedemocracy3 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I agree on what most of what you say, and that passion on certain interests beats being boring on others. An example of this is many people with 'high end jobs' aka investment banker that make them absolutely miserable not able to have as much success with women vs say someone who works in social media but is passionate about it.

However, video games is something where it just doesn't work. You can talk up 'cool hobbies' like surfing, rock climbing, etc. pretty easily. You can talk up 'indifferent' hobbies like reading, photography, etc.

But 'negative' hobbies like video games, anime, etc. will HURT you with almost any women of quality no matter how passionate about it (unless you happen to be alpha in every other regard, but those people are so rare it's almost not worth mentioning).

As I said earlier, you can spin 'negative hobbies' like browsing the internet, video games, etc. into a positive if you create something of value out of it. But just being someone who enjoys it will be too much to overcome unless you are stupid strong in other areas. I see where you are coming from and agree with it mostly, but believe it has limits.

[–]Nino_BrownX 2 points3 points  (5 children)

Women are just jealous that video games are another thing that they can't enjoy. Plus, its another thing that takes attention away from them. But you all know this.

But if you have got a high SMV you can play all you want.

As long as you're paying the bills, groomed, lifting and hanging with friends from time to time. Theres only so many hours in the day anyway.

[–]truedemocracy3 3 points4 points  (4 children)

This is all true. Women hate video games because they see no benefit arising from it that can be directed to them. It basically boils down to "he is giving a machine attention, and not me". However, the lack of benefits video games provide a man should make it a hobby used only sparingly. If I engage time in a hobby I want it to either give me benefits from one of 4 areas:

Social (team sports, 'going out', bar trivia)

Physical (weightlifting, running, climbing)

Mental (reading, working on a project, podcasts, learning a language)

Monetary (side business, investing)

video games don't check any of those boxes. When I'm burnt out after a long day and have nothing going on I will fire up the Xbox, sure, but it is after everything else has been satisfied

[–]Nino_BrownX 1 point2 points  (1 child)

It all depends on what we're talking about. Because a Chad that makes nothing but lifting and video game videos on YouTube is gonna get all the pussy.

And what you'll then see happen, is the girl is gonna get interested (or rather pretend to be) in whatever it is hes doing just to feel like she belongs in his world and gets off from trying to distract him from gamepads to boobies.

[–]truedemocracy3 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Making video game videos is still making something, compared to just playing video games. You tell someone (guy or girl) that you play video games as a passion they will scoff. You say you have a YouTube channel, X number of subscribers, advertising deals with Y, met celebrity Z because of it and all of a sudden they are drawn in.

Though I agree with you that if you have a naturally good looking guy who puts the gym and diet effort to get shredded but also loves video games and plays hours a day he wont have trouble getting laid and women will be drawn in. But that is because the other aspects are so strong, and not because of his video game passion.

[–]sd4c 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Social

Not true, couch coop is great for socializing with buddies or kids.

[–]truedemocracy3 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If it's a group of friends over and shooting the shit, sure. But you wont gain social skills from it as you could in other areas

[–]Justmagick 9 points10 points  (1 child)

I’m one of those weird guys that walk along the beach with a metal detector. Bikini clad women who I’ve never seen before are constantly coming up to me and striking up conversations.

What are you looking for? What’s the best thing you’ve ever found? How much jewelry have you found? Have you ever found treasure? Can I get down on my hands and knees and help you dig that hole? I’ll let you feel my tits for one of those green pennies.

It’s good to be weird. 😎

[–]ambientwhisper123 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Fuck yeah I think you guys are cool too.

[–]FerrusMan 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Bullshit? You think playing xbox for hours on end is attractive to a woman, because you are passionate about it?

You are living in a dreamworld. I know you don't believe me, but don't take my word for it. Watch a woman's actions and you'll see for yourself.

[–]ambientwhisper123 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I've had plenty of hot women play games with me. I played L.A. Noire right through with a solid 9 back on release and plenty of co-op/split screen versus action with others.

Its aalllll frame my man.

[–]FerrusMan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That kind of proves my point. If I excel at a physical sport, I will have women interested in me, without saying a word. The act itself is physically attractive.

The act of playing a video game? You are absolutely right, you need frame to counterbalance it.

[–]Brickles09 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That's true, and that happens because they see it as a childish thing, it doesn't matter what the game is, they always see it as a 'toy'.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Depends on the game.

I actually secured a date with a woman because we enjoyed Overwatch together. We got to bond and shoot the shit in a more meaningful way than OkCupid. (Which just ruined their own app by making it next to impossible to talk to women, even HB5s, now.)

Had to drive two hours west, but it was worth it.

[–]Rommel0502 2 points3 points  (0 children)

About once every two months or so I run into a real over-compensating douche on this site. Whenever I do, I do a cursory check of their posting history to see if this is their MO, or just a bad day. Without exception, the majority of their posts are on video game sites. Without exception.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I will never understand why the 20 year old does better than the 30 year old. but then that's probably sex drive etc

[–]trppr 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How's your posture?

This is secondary to dressing better IMO.

Dressing well amplifies what you got, and can also create it's own value sometimes.

[–]averagedad_ 0 points1 point  (2 children)

How did you start your IT career path? I've been heavily wanting to pursue this path...?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I went to school for computer science, dropped out because I didn't want to do programming, couldn't find work, started a $9/hr job doing data entry and calls for our door to door sales reps while I lived with my mom for a couple years. When I left my mom's I started working for temp agencies who had technical jobs and grinded through those for a year or two until I found a temp to hire one that started at $12/hr doing VOIP support. I was at that job and learned any and all skills I could, including networking. Left there at about $16 an hour after three years for a better opportunity with a more local client base where I ended up making about $52k a year, which isn't a lot, but considering what I was doing and where I lived it was easy to live off of. Certifications like CCNA/CCIE will get you farther quicker, but you're going to start off making less money than you'll be happy with. I was mentally/emotionally drained and had no willpower for a large part of my career, making me decide to leave it behind and try something else. I knew people that loved it but it wasn't for me.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Good for you for leaving something that's causing you to be mentally drained. I had a contract last year they paid me $100 an hour, but it was useless and it was soul draining so after a couple of months I left it and took my career to a whole new different direction... makes a lot less money but more fulfilling.

[–]PhoenixRedFire 0 points1 point  (1 child)

How did the IT path fuel your depression?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Cubicle death.

Man was not meant to sit behind a desk without a view past a couple feet for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, running your brain like it's an engine needing an oil change. Maybe for some people the work itself is fuel for them to keep going. Some people I know there love what they're doing because it gives them a means to provide for their family and gives their lives meaning. I'm a single guy who at the time didn't have many options or outlets for sexual relationships.

Basically I realized I was good at something, but that something wasn't good for me. Just because I'm good at drinking whiskey doesn't mean I should keep doing it.

[–]Dudedontbedumb 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Question. Ok so video games are not attractive because there is no monitery or social gain. What about activities like Snowboarding, Mountain Biking or Climbing?

[–]TheBattleshipYamato 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Yup. Avoiding unattractive behavior is enough to put you above the average man, because the average man constantly exhibits unattractive behavior.

[–]FerrusMan 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah the problem is that blue pill stuff is so potent. One blue pill activity can counter half a dozen red pill displays.

[–]tam8a_tomato 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Preach. Those 2 steps should be the other way around:

Step 1. Don't be unattractive
Step 2. Be attractive

[–]brotein_synthesis 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Define unattractive things.

[–]suzy_sweetheart86 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Objectively fairly attractive person, here. Your comment just gave me an epiphany on why I always lose the dating game. THANK YOU

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You're welcome. Needy and dependant are the top 'unattractives' for both genders. If you act like you 'need' the other as opposed to 'wanting', it's a red flag. Controlling, passive/aggressive and manipulative are right around the corner.

[–]sappy02 0 points1 point  (3 children)

And what would be examples of those downsides?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Being needy; not saying 'No'; deferring to her wants more often than yours; being always avail to talk/text/meet; no eye contact; weak posture; no guy friends; waiting for her to initiate/lead; one-itis; regulary cleaning, polishing and raising her 'pedestal'.

[–]sappy02 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Thanks for this. I certainly am guilty of doing a few of those, sometimes at the same time. What about the attractive things?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Attractive is simply the opposite of the above. Again, that's why I say being attractive is mostly NOT doing unattractive things. The basic grooming and cleanliness is all you can do above what you've genetically been given. Maximize what you have been given. Then don't 'negate' those by doing 'unattractive' things/behaviours. You can catch her eye with looking 'nice' and walking with confidence and using eye contact. But then when talking to her (presuming you use that confidence to go talk to her) you undermine that initial attraction by averting your eyes, deferring to her perspective, letting her run the conversation, not initiating touch, complaining about 'other women/ex's, etc.

[–]SigmundRoidd 92 points93 points  (2 children)

Have a long term goal and drive and all the neediness will go away.

All the side effects of being driven and working towards long and short term goals are you what define a lot of redpill truths. Doesn't even need to be anything grand. We as men are built to test ideas, and our own limits. We are programmed to hunt; and modern day hunting is just that.

You won't be texting her incessantly because you are busy with life; your life that you've created and building upon.

A lot of BP guys that I've seen are also losers in life. They work mediocre jobs, play video games, and eat junk food daily. No shit a pretty girl is going to intimidate them, drive up their anxiety, cause them to be needy, and cause them to overprice the product. That's the scariest and most intimidating thing in their sad lives.

[–][deleted] 31 points32 points  (0 children)

I am 35 and this is the #1 thing I would tell my younger self. I cringe when I think back to my texting and behavior in my 20's. I forget who said it but I love the quote 'women want to be taken on an adventure, they dont want to be your adventure'.

[–]TruthSeekaaaaa 26 points27 points  (1 child)

One of the best trick I use regarding texting is to save the girl's number somewhere (like a peace of paper, a txt file etc) and then delete the number from my phone. This counter the urge to text her

[–][deleted] 70 points71 points  (46 children)

"The best thing to do when you find a girl you really like is to find five others."

Do you or anyone have a link to the video that RSDtyler says this? My frame is usually great but I have one of these weird crushes that I can't even explain.

[–]slimydogs 41 points42 points  (36 children)

For oneitis you need to force yourself to keep AWALT at the forefront of your mind - it's hard to be specific because we don't know what it is about this oneitis that's making you become dependent and losing frame. Is it because she's presenting a challenge?

[–][deleted]  (28 children)

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    [–][deleted]  (27 children)

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      [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      it's hard to be specific because we don't know what it is about this oneitis that's making you become dependent and losing frame. Is it because she's presenting a challenge?

      I think you hit the nail on the head - she's much younger (legal), very pretty but in a unique way, and different nationality (she's really into the latin culture). Anyway-- Here's an update since I last posted: after two weeks of dicking around talking to her on Facebook once in a while, I finally got the balls to ask her out last night at 8:30pm. Just get it over with and move on. Then...no response. I've been around the game enough that with women if they like you no matter how "busy" they are they'll make time for you. After I had sent it, walked around wishing, DARING her to say "no" so I can use that as log to add into my fire. Got pretty hyped last night, watched the RSD video linked here, did some mental prioritizing of what I want to do today and about to hit the gym actually. As I predicted she said no (it was a nice but clear way to say no) but at this point I don't care anymore.

      Another observation: our dualities: It's funny how we have dualities. With the crush, I was like a puppy dog trying to cross the street for the first time - hesitant, scared, deliberate. Then last night texted with a plate of mine that really sees me as a man, our attraction is quite primal like two animals in heat and nothing more, and with her I automatically feel like the lead tiger in the jungle. Saying all these nasty things I'd do to her without hesitation and she eats it up. I felt like a puppy and a tiger in the same day. Funny.

      [–]flybywired 0 points1 point  (5 children)

      Can you explain to me what the AWALT mindset is? Im familiar with the acronym, but not the mindset

      [–]slimydogs 13 points14 points  (0 children)

      All women have the capacity to cheat on you and be sluts. Most women have fucked and sucked a few dicks already - if she hasn't there's usually something weird going on in that head anyway. Women's inherent nature is to be hypergamous - this is true for EVERY woman. She will be that loyal, top tier wife until you lose frame and fuck up. Then she will jump branches or abuse her new position in power. She may not even mean to do it. But that's simply how women are.

      [–]FerrusMan 7 points8 points  (0 children)

      It's on the sidebar, and I would suggest you read the material there for some good info.

      [–]not-so-useful-idiot 8 points9 points  (0 children)

      instead of putting her on a pedestal recognize that she’s no different than any other chick you’ve encountered

      [–]juliusstreicher 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Need to read the sidebar. It will answer a WHOLE LOT of questions.

      [–]becoolstaynschool[S] 13 points14 points  (2 children)

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNovswAlmio

      The whole video (partly inspiration for this post) is fucking great

      [–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

      Thanks! This helps me a lot personally right now. And it's one of those things that it's always going to be helpful no matter what. And I love what he says to close out the video at the very, very end. In a way, it's totally true!

      [–]UncleWarwick 4 points5 points  (0 children)

      It’s okay to have a crush. That’s human.

      Hell I’m still crushing on a girl from years ago.

      But she’s out of my life and I’m out of hers and the only way to think is to look forward to the next one and not backwards.

      It’s okay to have emotions. Just don’t do stupid shit with them.

      [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (4 children)

      Don't worry it will go away.

      Just be busy with productive things, and you'll forget all about ver.

      [–]FerrusMan 2 points3 points  (3 children)

      The problem is you have to understand why it happened, or it will repeat itself again, and again, and again...

      [–][deleted]  (2 children)

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          [–]daymi 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Same story here. If you wanna talk about it, you can PM me. (I'm not a psychologist - but I can provide support and tell you what helped me: it's talking to other men without the bullshit political correctness - and finding male friends)

          [–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor 15 points16 points  (6 children)

          Yup. I trace back to the moment where my marriage went to shit and it when I failed a test in a spectacular fashion. She used to hound me about how I didn't need her. Eventually I got tired of it and literally started fabricating reasons why I needed her.

          MISTAKE!

          [–]metallicdrama 8 points9 points  (2 children)

          Always do the complete opposite of what they want. They’re like dogs chasing cars. They wouldn’t know what to do if they caught one.

          [–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor 5 points6 points  (1 child)

          You know, that's a good point. They will chase you like no tomorrow, but if they get you, it's completely up to you to take control of the situation. Or they will just chase another car.

          [–]metallicdrama 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          Exactly. You have to keep them chasing. As soon as the chase is over, no matter how long it has been, it’s new car time. This is why marriages fail. This is why LTRs fail. But we have to also be chaseable.

          [–]FerrusMan 3 points4 points  (2 children)

          And then you unplugged and the world turned upside down. Except, when you learned the new rules, they actually worked like people said they would. I still remember, twice, actually putting my hand up to my mouth to close it because I was afraid it flew open in stunned amazement when a red pill philosophy worked on my wife.

          [–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor 3 points4 points  (1 child)

          The only complication is that the same journey that brought me here is the same journey that left me not wanting a wife. She has often insisted that if I dumped her or something otherwise separated us, I would just find someone else to marry. I kept telling her that I would never get married again. She kept insisting I was laying, I guess assuming I was trying to make her feel better. No, you twat, I really don't want a wife. Marriage is done in modern civilization. I want nothing to do with it.

          She's lucky she is good with the kids.

          [–]FerrusMan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Why oh why didn't I take the blue pill instead...just kidding of course.

          It's a very bitter pill, in more ways than one.

          [–]H42 44 points45 points  (3 children)

          A workable plan is to have 3 plates. This is how you view them:

          One coming in. One going out. One in the middle.

          Plates do not last. They come and go. The harder you try to hold them, the easier they slip from your grasp.

          Their order can change with any event by her, or any whim of your own. You may keep spinning a middle plate for months, while the other two are changing out with new women constantly.

          For example, Crazy can be fun once in a while if you are careful, but she will usually go from incoming to outgoing rather quickly.

          You spend time with each of them about once a week to 10 days. This gives you 3 dates a week with 3 different women; but you only see each one woman once per week, or less often.

          This method helps reduce oneitis a lot. An Excel spreadsheet can help with logistics, pregnancy control, and to make sure you do not see one too often.

          [–]chalapeno_guy 54 points55 points  (0 children)

          Upvote for Excel spreadsheet.

          [–]metallicdrama 24 points25 points  (0 children)

          Excel for pregnancy control lmfao. If only they weren’t this crazy.

          [–]RedwallAllratuRatbar 8 points9 points  (0 children)

          My longest plate lasted 9 years :P

          [–]Hoodwink 28 points29 points  (5 children)

          Neediness is the easiest way to get rid of a girl if you don't have the stomach to do it yourself.

          Well, not all girls.

          [–]becoolstaynschool[S] 63 points64 points  (4 children)

          This is a method a friend of mine uses with girls that he's hooked up but is afraid they'll go nuclear if he simply ghosts.

          He showed me some of the texts. It was hilarious to see how fast they got turned off after he started sending incessant amounts of "good morning beautiful!" and "why aren't you me replying??? :/" texts

          [–]CabbagedDaughter 15 points16 points  (1 child)

          Chick I’ve been seeing missed our FaceTime session and I sent a message saying “ You tease” with a sad emoji.

          face palm

          I have a lot to learn.

          [–]Edgun 15 points16 points  (0 children)

          Just don't text her again until she says something to you. Then ignore it for a while and post a Snapchat of you doing something interesting/making money/etc. Most women will forgive a dumb text or two. It's not a big deal.

          [–]Johnnyvile 8 points9 points  (0 children)

          This applies in most aspects of life. needy coworker, needy friend, needy family member. It’s just draining for others and an unpleasant characteristic.

          [–]leotard-princess 25 points26 points  (4 children)

          Getting mad when she flakes or doesn't want to be with you She doesn't want to come out tonight? WHO FUCKING CARES?? Doesn't matter if she was your only option, your reaction should be "Alright have a good night!"

          Disagree. Next this disrespectful bitch. Life is too short to be placing you energies in women who are only half interested. It's not on and by validating this bad behaviour you are only going to get it time and time again. Don't be a second choice. Be first choice or no choice - and use the energy of no choice to find those plates where you're first choice.

          [–]becoolstaynschool[S] 15 points16 points  (2 children)

          Sooner or later you’ll realize that in this day and age companionship is easy and low-effort to get (especially for young hotties) and as a result girls will place a low level of commitment on going out with one specific person. I recently watched a documentary about Tinder and one of the girls in that doc—no more than a 5/10 at best—literally had four or five OTHER dates set, same time and everything, outside of the one she intentionally planned with guy number 1.

          If you ask a girl out and she flat out says “Haha I would but I’m hanging with (insert other guy or girls’ name here)” or she just blows you off then I absolutely agree, hard next. However, sometimes it just doesn’t work out for other reasons and you simply have to shrug it off in a non-needy way.

          Recently I asked a girl if she wanted to join me going bar hopping. She told me her sisters were in town that night so she couldn’t come unless they AND her friends came too. “Nah, was just wanting us to go. Have a good night” and then she thanked me for the invite anyways.

          Next weekend she hit me up and we went bar hopping alone without the sex n the city gang cockblocking us.

          Agreed, if she blatantly disrespects you or doesn’t show any effort to make things work, next her without a second thought. Sometimes you have to realize though that the logistics of it doesn’t always work out and (OMG) she has tons of familiar guy (orbiters) gaming her who she’ll always prioritize over you

          [–]leotard-princess 5 points6 points  (1 child)

          Next weekend she hit me up

          There's the rub. If she genuinely has social complications - I'd argue that's not flaking - trying to make it up is a world of difference to just flaking and then giving you the slow fade.

          [–]not-hardly 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          She declined his invitation. Vs yes lets go out and then changing her mind.

          [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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          [–]TunedtoPerfection 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          They do, it just takes very long period of time with no activity(years) and a large change in your demeanor. You have to reset their stereotype of you instantly upon re meeting or you will fall right back into it in her mind though.

          [–]macaroon18 7 points8 points  (2 children)

          It depends what you need and expressing it honeslty. I think we all need love and sex to some extent, but pulling on someones attention for validation is the selfish egoist side of needing which is just a little immature

          [–]becoolstaynschool[S] 33 points34 points  (1 child)

          “Yes, keep on degrading yourself, soul. But soon your chance at dignity will be gone. Everyone gets one life. Yours is almost used up, and instead of treating yourself with respect, you have entrusted your own happiness to the souls of others.”

          - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

          [–]StoneColdJane 3 points4 points  (0 children)

          This is one of those things that autocorrect itself when you start exploring yourself, your hobbies, living interesting busy life. If you hanging out on reddit all day long, watching netflix as your hobby, well think again buddy!

          [–]Endorsed Contributorvandaalen 3 points4 points  (0 children)

          [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          This is real shit, neediness is a killer.. I use to be a needy cringe cunt too my ex, now I ghosted her I was always initiating contact making myself look like a fucking idiot.

          No more dude, fuck everyone lol.

          [–]VAOTOMARNOCU 3 points4 points  (0 children)

          the more you need sex, the less you deserve it.

          [–]FerrusMan 4 points5 points  (0 children)

          A good reminder, neediness is never a good thing, ever, in any relationship (men or women).

          A wild animal never feels sorry for itself.

          [–]Shakydrummer 7 points8 points  (0 children)

          Dude thank you for posting this. I could kinda feel the blue pill slipping in on a tentative plate (we'll see how next weekend plays out)/old crush and gotta remember that doing that needy kind of shit are the exact things that create orbiters.

          [–]DarktharionGod 1 point2 points  (1 child)

          You talk about girls like if they had a sixth sense.

          [–]becoolstaynschool[S] 17 points18 points  (0 children)

          They do. It’s called their vagina.

          [–]martinger 1 point2 points  (1 child)

          Thanks for this posting. We all have faced that neediness is the killer #1 for girls.

          However, I think neediness is one of these nice guy behavior/traits. Thus: The underlying result of being not able to escalate and scared of rejection.

          I’m particularly interested WHY this is the case for most men these days? I am also interested about any research that has been done (psychology).

          [–]FerrusMan 6 points7 points  (0 children)

          Because society has been trying to teach boys growing up that being needy is what women want. "Your wife is your best friend", ie you can talk about anything with her. Is just one example.

          School boys, when standing up to a bully in school, get in just as much trouble as the bully. Another example.

          "Men don't talk about their feelings"...becomes "where have the real men gone?"

          Now we have a bunch of confused men AND women who are sexually frustrated, and they don't know why. But we do, thanks to a little red pill knowledge. Of course there will always be jackwagons taking things to the extreme.

          [–]RedwallAllratuRatbar 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          100% of people are needy, just like 100% people are hungry - you just don't notice if they just met their needs.

          [–]Augustuscrassus 1 point2 points  (2 children)

          Honestly, maybe my SMV isn't that high but I've NEVER had a girl initiate first. It is just my experience. Even when I went after 3s, 4s, 5s they wouldn't. Not saying it doesn't happen but I've always been under the impression you need to initiate because girls won't.

          [–]metallicdrama 3 points4 points  (0 children)

          All girls already think they’re nines. A three will respond to you about the same as a 7.

          [–]juliusstreicher 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          It happens. Nothing you can predict, though, unless you're a Brad Pitt or Chad.

          [–]Savaaage 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          TRP has taught me to think that I am the boss. To never get attached to no woman. When I got some girl's number earlier this year, I did start texting her first (not everyday) whenever we talked. Sometimes she wouldn't reply but I always thought, if she fucks off, then she fucks off. If she's interested then maybe she'll hit me up first.

          So I got busy with life and didn't text her for about 3 weeks. After those 3 weeks she does text first and even tells me that I forgot about her. I just said I was busy but didn't apologize(apologize for what).

          About that texting first thing, I don't know if that'll always be true. Maybe some girls really want you to talk to you but want you to text first (as in my case)? But I do agree with the texting everyday part. Fuck that

          [–]1ozaku7 1 point2 points  (2 children)

          You can make neediness as minimal as you want, but if you are the person that has nothing of value for the other you will never be asked out as much as Alpha Adam who is so fun to be around, always has an adventure or a great story to share.

          [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

          I have never met an alpha called Adam

          [–]newls 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          This is exactly why Mark Manson centered Models around "non-neediness". He changed it to the vague and nebulous "true confidence", but changed it back to "non-neediness" by popular demand.

          [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

          You can be needy if you're hot. A girl will simply interpret it as cute

          [–]Andgelyo 7 points8 points  (1 child)

          Nope, that "hot guy" will drop major points on his SMV. Same thing if a hot girl was constantly texting me 24/7 and bothering the shit out of me. I need my space, I don't give a fuck how attractive a girl is. That's how people get sick of each other. Abundance cures all.

          [–]leonxtravis 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          Mannn I know "oneitis" is bad but if Aubrey Plaza texted me every hour of the day about some annoying bullshit on set I wouldn't complain.

          The girl literally had surgery done on her brain but I would wife her in an instant.

          [–]shawnx23 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Honestly speaking , tyler is one of my gurus . But what rsd ( tyler and nick) are doing with todd valentine and his new youtube channel is some of the worst impressions of rsd i've ever had .

          [–]ironjohnred 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          The key is dont undervalue yourself and put the bitch on a pedestal. Value your time!

          [–]truedemocracy3 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Even for someone who is seasoned if you are focusing on one girl this can be hard to improve. This is why abundance is so important. By default you will be spread thin enough where you cant overinvest. If a woman flakes, you don't care. If a woman is slow to respond, you don't care. And you not caring, often makes her care.

          [–]Staunch_Moderate 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          The last (almost) relationship I was in I totally ruined by being needy. She liked me, i don’t doubt that. She bailed on me a few times and the last time I calmly told her off. We talked it out and hung out a couple more times but i soon after got friend zoned. I was too invested, too needy. It’s an important lesson I won’t soon forget.

          [–]Endorsed Contributormonsieurhire2 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Eh, unfortunately, if a girl is chasing you, there maybe something very wrong with her, as I've found out on several occasions. Initiating is NOT chasing. Chasing is repeated initiations after repeated signals of lack of interest. She doesn't reply to your text? Stop thinking about her for awhile and move on to someone else. Try again in a few months if at all. There are billions of girls on the planet; don't fixate on one. Easier said than done, as most of them are fugly, reducing the interesting pool to millions, or even hundreds of thousands depending on how high your standards are.

          [–]maplemaximus 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          I'm incapable of ghosting and pussyfooting around with texting so I just un-added any women I found myself texting to often. If anyone else is having the problem I had, deleting them might be the best move.

          [–]DiethylamideProphet 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Be a fucking man and realize that the only person you need to focus on is yourself.

          That's called selfishness. It's not a virtue and doesn't lead to a good life. There are plenty of things you should also focus on, and it's not like you can have a good relationship if you don't focus to your partner as well. You just must have balance with it and keep your head cool. You can't be the one who always makes the initiative, but that doesn't mean you can never do it.

          That being said, you are completely right with the rest of your comment.

          [–]biglaughingcock 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          that explains why i got stood up for a coffee date today after asking this girl 3 times until she finally agreed.

          [–]Raknith 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          What does it mean when a girl wants to hang out with you, even agrees to the time and place, and then when it gets within an hour of the event, she makes up some excuse saying she doesn't want to go? It happens to me so much. I usually stop talking to them because I figure they don't want to hang out. But it's so confusing. What am I doing wrong

          [–]radpeel 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Neediness says, "I'm a fucking PUSSY who doesn't think I can do better than you"

          [–]trp_nofap_rewire2018 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          I know it's a reminder, but this subject was already discussed so many times. I thought you were going to bring up a new insight OP

          Anw, thanks!

          May we in 2018 be abundant in every aspect of our lives.

          [–]ShinobiKrow 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          I agree with not looking to desperate and not chasing her if she shows zero interest in you. However...a lot of girls just don't like to initiate contact, and they have so many options that they simply don't need to. Doesn't mean they don't like to talk to you and don't wish to be contacted by you. They're just not in love. They won't chase you. And if you refuse to text her first, you might end up missing a nice night of sex. Insisting has actually got me laid many, many times. I like to be clinical. I have a goal and i'll do whatever it takes to achieve it, even if it involves swalling my pride and contacting them first.

          [–]TunedtoPerfection 0 points1 point  (1 child)

          Neediness comes from your desire to have other people solve the problems you have that you dont want to face. If you want to get over it quickly you need to face that fear head on.

          [–]becoolstaynschool[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Neediness because you don’t want to be alone: learn to appreciate solitude and find solidarity by having only yourself

          Neediness because you are insecure and seek validation: Set goals to accomplish in order to succeed in your chosen path. Lift and realize that the only source of validation you need is that which comes from yourself

          Neediness because you desire to get laid: Focus on yourself and direct that desire into constructive ways that will benefit you (lift). Then you will get laid.

          [–]poochman 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Not sure if this is entirely accurate. Some of the very submissive/feminine (ie HOT) girls will never text me first but will be very receptive after I text them. They are expecting me to lead in every way so waiting for them to text me for a meetup is disingenuous.

          However, the same concept applies. I don’t text or push for a meet up too much and don’t act needy. I spread my time to a few plates at once to prevent this. When I feel like fucking one I hit her up which is once or maybe twice a week at most.

          [–][deleted]  (5 children)

          [deleted]

          [–]becoolstaynschool[S] 2 points3 points  (4 children)

          Since when do women initiate?

          Uh.. Since forever? The past three dates i've been on were initiated on her end.

          You don't have to be George fuckin Clooney for girls to hit you up or ask you out first.

          [–]TenserTensor 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          Depends a lot which part of the world you are in.

          In south america it's very rare for girls to take the initiative.

          [–]Augustuscrassus 0 points1 point  (1 child)

          You have to be really high SMV though. I'm not going to doubt that you are, but my main plate won't even initiate with me. She will drop everything she's doing when I ask her to hang out but she'll never make plans.

          [–]trpcounsel 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          I bet you just aren't waiting long enough. You ignore her indefinitely and she'll hit you up. Guarantee it. Try it, some dread never hurt anyways.

          [–][deleted]  (1 child)

          [deleted]

          [–]Augustuscrassus 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          Also the fact I have holidays now and so much freetime makes me so needy sometimes, I cant stand myself

          I feel you here man. Fuck the holidays. All my hobbies and things that I do are shut down till second week of January and all my plates are gone away for Christmas. Basically all I do is work and read and try and find shit to do.

          Secondly there is no such thing as an LDR imo. She is basically using you as a tampon while she fucks other guys in another state/province/country (wherever you're from). Just move on and find another girl. It isn't easy but just don't do it.