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Red Pill TheoryWhy women love assholes (an alternate view) (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by trpMilo

I've been developing a theory that I think might add a bit to TRP thinking on this topic.

Men are sexually attracted to traits in women that are fully observable when they first meet (i.e. physical beauty).

Women are sexually attracted to traits in men that are only partially observable when they first meet (i.e. social status, confidence).

What does this mean for dating? Well imagine a world in which the traits men find attractive in women are partially unobservable. Specifically, let's pretend women walk around in full burqas on the streets and in public, but otherwise act just like Western women. You can see if a woman is overweight or not, but otherwise you can't tell if she's hot. After a few dates though, you get to see what's underneath. These women are relatively experienced, they've dated men before and shown them what is underneath their burqas, and thus these women know their own sexual market value.

Now, you approach a woman on the streets who looks decently in-shape and you think might be attractive. She is very receptive to your approach. She's kind and sweet and seems excited to go on a date with you. What do you think to yourself? "Shit, this girl is probably ugly."

You approach another girl. When she sees you, she is cold and standoffish. What do you think to yourself? "Awesome, this girl is probably so hot. I better try harder."

This is the world women live in. When they meet you, they can't really tell how attractive you are. So they rely on your behavior to tell them. The less interested in them you are, the more options they think you have, and the more attractive they think you must be. So when you treat them like dirt, they think you must be god's gift to women.

It's only later that they find out whether or not you really have those qualities they are looking for. This is your "burqa" coming off. If you want to keep a girl after that point you better be as alpha as your behavior implies, but before that point they only have your behavior to go on.


[–][deleted] 60 points61 points  (9 children)

It's because of the penis power, take it straight from the horse's mouth.

[–]iwantt 23 points24 points  (0 children)

this is a legit RPW

[–]dragoness_leclerq 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I honestly cannot thank you enough for posting this.

[–]TheCasualHistorian 5 points6 points  (0 children)

This is and will remain the best thing I've seen all day. It's absolutely the honest to god truth and I've lived it.

[–]fiat_lux_ 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Alexyss is a fucking riot. Favourited.

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

[deleted]

    [–]BumSkeeter 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    pee nuss

    [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    She's too good to be on that show. She should be a major celebrity.

    [–]in_da_tr33z 234 points235 points  (2 children)

    Solid line of thinking there. Great way to illustrate it.

    [–]robesta 21 points22 points  (0 children)

    Agreed! Nice work!

    [–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

    Yep, nicely explained.

    [–]1deptii 99 points100 points  (6 children)

    It's abundance theory played out. When you fail to put them on the same pedestal that every other guy puts them on, it's starts the hamster in her head (one of the few that works for you though). They think that you MUST have other high value women in your life, otherwise why would you not be treating her like the princess she thinks she is? Couple this with the simple denial of validation and she wants to prove herself to you as well.

    There are many good ways to express this, but being an asshole is one of the easiest, and most effective.

    [–]Abadoobie 28 points29 points  (4 children)

    Yep. Upon meeting, we naturally rate ourselves relative to those around us. We mentally divide up into peer groups. So when she meets you, she rates herself relative to you. If you don't behave in the way she expects someone of your status should, either one of two things are true: Her assessment of you was wrong or her assessment of herself is wrong.

    If she correctly judged your status(by observing that those in that peer group accept you as an equal) but you rejected her from that peer group, it's a sign that her status is being challenged. She will either try to provoke you into accepting her status in that peer group and thus re-confirm her value or she will try to put you in a lower peer group so she can ignore your rejection. A rare third option is that she accepts the reduction in value and lowers her own peer group status. This is the entire basis for every female centric movie, book, tv show or other work of fiction. It ALL revolves around social status and group hierarchy. Every high-school girl bulling story, every social exclusion tale. They all revolve around the dynamics of social status and peer groups.

    Assholes do whatever the fuck they want and don't answer to social hierarchy. They almost always have an inflated sense of self-worth that is very difficult to change. This often mimics the same behavior as those at the very top. They ignores the opinions of others, act like they're better than almost everyone else and believe themselves to be special. They are selfish and motivated and often break the rules normal people adhere to. This person accepting her as a mate sends a signal that she is of his peer group, which is almost always higher than the one she starts in. So long as she sees him as higher than her, she'll stick with him because otherwise she'll never get acceptance into that peer group. And she's willing to put up with, rationalize or straight up ignore unpleasant qualities he has, up to a point obviously.

    [–]1independentmale 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    This is brilliant. Thank you for the outstanding insight. You've given me a fresh, new perspective.

    [–]Texas_Rangers 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    tagged bro

    [–]Abadoobie 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    ?

    [–]ADDvanced -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

    Ha. I'm totally an asshole.

    [–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

    Hamster in your head is a pretty accurate description

    [–]Endorsed ContributorInvalidity 118 points119 points  (11 children)

    Let's set this straight. A woman's definition of slut is equivalent to the man's definition of asshole. She wouldn't date a real asshole. She's dating what other men (ie. betas) consider an asshole. The guy isn't an asshole. The guy is a guy who is true to his sexual nature.

    Most guys love sluts. If we'd commit to them is another story. However, many women feed the idea to us that we don't want sluts. But their definition of slut is something that is appealing to us. Girls that dress provocatively. Girls that carry themselves a certain way. We don't like really slutty girls, we just like the idea of a slut.

    [–][deleted]  (4 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]The_Floating_Dick 12 points13 points  (2 children)

      If they're an actual slut, guys worthy of being called men want nothing to do with them.

      "Worthy of being called men"? You use the same vocabulary as slut-shaming women. I agree with all your other points, but how am I not "worthy of being called a man" if I want to pump-and-dump some hot slutty 10?

      [–][deleted]  (1 child)

      [deleted]

        [–]The_Floating_Dick 12 points13 points  (0 children)

        Because ultimately you're still being manipulated by a woman.

        How come? I'd want to fuck her regardless of her intentions and manipulations.

        she's using her looks to make you dance like a dog for her.

        what?

        lack of self confidence in allowing yourself to be so easily trapped by a woman that she only has to use her physical attributes and he has control of you and misleading yourself into thinking you're manly because of it.

        I'm not getting trapped by her just because I fucked her. Also, I want to fuck her not to feel more manly, but because my dick tells me to. That guy is one hell of manipulator!

        [–]carrotplanter 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        An asshole to everyone else, except to them

        [–]scamper_22 3 points4 points  (0 children)

        This is perhaps the best answer I've read and apt because it compares both sides.

        Like others say, women want confident and assertive men. The 'shallow' first appearance like feature that men give to show they have these features are things that some might consider them assholes.

        In the same way, men want sexual good looking women. The 'shallow' first appearance like feature that women give to show men they have these features are things that some might consider them to be sluts.

        In truth, the more I've been in relationships and even now that I am married, the more I see and I act in ways some might consider assholeish. Don't me wrong, I'm still very much a decent guy in that sense.

        But yeah... I care how my wife looks. I don't think twice about putting my foot down on various things. I'm not weirded out by trying to do anything sexual or stuff like that. ...

        The more I reflect on it, the more I realize that the 'nice' guy I was before wasn't really a 'nice' guy. I was just a guy who wasn't sure what he wanted or could get and didn't want to admit what he actually wanted.

        And if I had a choice between women... one who had what I wanted, and one who didn't... I now have little issue not wasting my time with the one who didn't.

        I just want to emphasize... I still don't consider myself an asshole. I'm very decent, but I don't think girls would consider me a 'nice' guy in the sense that I think they're a princess or cater to their whim or feel bad setting expectations.

        I have a lot more respect for the guys who I used to think of as assholes. Not all of them, but I reserve my judgment about them. They're as much as unknown as the 'nice' guy. Some might be genuine ass holes. Others might just be more honest, less time-wasting, have more options, have more confidence, be more assertive, are upfront about what they want...

        And the same is largely true of women. I've known quite the few 'sluts' who have turned out to be wonderful wives and mothers to many people I've know in my life. I think they were just more honest and upfront and unashamed about their sexuality in their early years. In the same way, that 'good' girl you thought you knew with values might really just be hiding or not confident. They might end up being really manipulative... And of course, not all sluts turn out that way. Some are really just sluts... and not all good girls are hiding something.

        Anywhose... :P

        [–]trenchgun 4 points5 points  (0 children)

        This actually makes sense.

        [–]cooledcannon 1 point2 points  (2 children)

        Thats not really true. Being slightly too assholish is almost never bad for LTRs, while being to slutty is bad quite a lot of the time.

        [–]Endorsed ContributorInvalidity 2 points3 points  (1 child)

        By who's definition are you being an asshole though? From all the other guys in the world, if you're successful with women because you tease them and challenge them, you'd be considered an asshole/douche. The women? You're charming, charismatic, etc.

        What guys know as sluts are women who have sex with a lot of guys. They will flirt with everything to get attention and will spread legs for a lot of cocks. What girls think of as a slut would be something along the lines of an attractive female. If a girl was too skinny, she'd likely be called a slut. If a girl showing too much skin, she'd be called a slut. Etcetera.

        [–]cooledcannon 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Ah. I understand your point now. You are right.

        But i do think that even if the women themselves think your an asshole it isnt that bad either. They might be scared of you, or maybe wont like it. But its nowhere near tarnishing your image/reputation like being a slut would

        [–]1 Endorsed Contributormordanus 31 points32 points  (12 children)

        I can agree to this to a point. The thing is though that women actually look for asshole behavior specifically as a turn on. It isn't our standoffishness that makes them want to try harder. Take the ted bundy situation for an example. They are attracted to the guy even knowing that he would murder them without a second thought on it. Women specifically look for that bad boy mentality like we look for a nice ass. It isn't a side effect of something else that is attractive, it is the attraction.

        [–]hitchhikerpirate 14 points15 points  (8 children)

        Not even just Ted Bundy. Richard Ramirez, too.

        "Others were fooled, too. During Ramirez’s trial, women flocked to the courthouse to see the defendant. Letters poured into the jail. One woman wrote that she dreamed of having sex with him in a coffin. Another woman threatened to complain to the police after she visited him and gave him a nude photo of herself—she was upset because Ramirez shared the photo with other inmates.

        “He had Playboy models that would write him,” says Shelly." (Shelly is his niece)

        Even old Charles Manson has some 25 year old chick wanting to marry him currently.

        [–]1 Endorsed Contributormordanus 9 points10 points  (7 children)

        Yeah the list goes on and on. There is absolutely no sane reason for it. Women flock to them and throw themselves at them like men do to supermodels. We look at them without understanding and absolute confusion. I don't think I will ever truly understand it.

        [–]hitchhikerpirate 6 points7 points  (2 children)

        Personally, I think with Richard Ramirez at least, it's attention seeking behavior. Some woman actually married him in prison. Aside from wanting her name in the headlines, I cannot comprehend why she would do such a shameful thing.

        Flocking to them and throwing themselves at them, as you say, is just baffling. I think it's just terrible.

        [–]1 Endorsed Contributormordanus 7 points8 points  (1 child)

        I think it goes a lot more than just that. I do think that it plays a part in it and if it were only happening in the most famous cases it would be 100%, but it happens even down to a high school level and such. Women seem to flock to men who are shitty people. Not all men that women like are like this but it is a standard preference for women to choose.

        I think the reason for this is that women like adventure, risk, and doing bad things just like men but their purity shields are always engaged. So they try to live vicariously through these bad boys to get their sense of danger and excitement.

        The weird part about this though is that it genuinely turns them on. They get emotionally attached and lust after the typical bad boy. That shit makes them wet. So it can't be just about the fame or the excitement. To me it is truly an enigma.

        [–]hitchhikerpirate 5 points6 points  (0 children)

        That was really well put, and I will agree that it truly is an enigma.

        [–]2johnnight 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Women flock to them and throw themselves at them like men do to supermodels.

        Well, in a sense they are supermodels.

        [–]Endorsed Contributormonsieurhire2 0 points1 point  (2 children)

        "No sane reason."

        No such publicity as bad publicity. These women are angling for publicity so they can attract a certain subset of the male population that likes bad women. I suspect they're just using these guys, and then later turning around and pawning them a la Mystery for social proof to guys in death metal bands who would be impressed by something like that.

        There was some superhot girl who was writing to an incarcerated child molester and flirting with him. She was a real piece of work. Kind of looked like Sasha Grey. I can't find any reference to it, or I'd provide a link.

        [–]Abbrevi8 3 points4 points  (1 child)

        I think your reasoning is off.

        [–]Endorsed Contributormonsieurhire2 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        It's not my reasoning, it's their reasoning.

        Now, some of these women actually screw the psychopath, in which case it's sport-fucking. Others, actually get into a relationship, in which case they're playing out some sort of rebellious psychodrama.

        If some is a famous criminal, they're still famous, and women are attracted to the fame and the possibility of being a historical footnote.

        [–]Sabarot 8 points9 points  (1 child)

        Bill Hicks on the Ted Bundy situation.

        [–]1 Endorsed Contributormordanus 4 points5 points  (0 children)

        That second example of the death row guy with aids..... wtf man?!

        [–]dsrpta 18 points19 points  (0 children)

        Excellent analogy. I think of it this way: PUAs have known for a while that the way to be attractive is to break rapport.

        If you're a "nice guy" you validate a woman or agree with everything she says. What are you to her? You're basically another woman -- part of the herd who she asks to validate her and agree with her opinion.

        However, if you're a "man" you're not afraid to disagree with her, to set boundaries, to tease her, to call her out if she's acting bratty, etc. You're not there to validate her or and you're not there to agree with her opinions.

        That is the tangible aspect that attracts a woman to a "man" as opposed to being another one of those "nice guys" that are "boring" and "uninteresting" and "not exciting." You're not another nice guy to her to whom she can go to cry on your shoulder (as she does with other women) or to talk about her feelings (as she does with other women).

        This also doesn't mean you have to be an asshole to be attractive. But that's another post for another day.

        [–]Manuel_S 16 points17 points  (3 children)

        It is right.

        As long as you do not make the mistake of thinking it is logical, rational. It works off the "feelz" pre-processor they got somewhere in the brain.

        Doesn't mean it don't work, just that they themselves couldn't explain it.

        [–]1spicy_fries 8 points9 points  (2 children)

        "It works off the 'feelz' pre-processor they got somewhere in the brain."

        omg that's hilarious. explaining women with a hardware analogy. That's exactly right though. The CPU wouldn't know because it didn't calculate that conclusion. As far as the CPU is concerned it thinks that it is receiving raw data. So you can't ask the CPU "why" because the "desire" was reached by the pre-processor.

        [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Great analogy, and applies to a LOT of psychology in general.

        [–]Insomania 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        damn eh. this place is full of good analogies

        [–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

        solid comparison

        [–]TRP VanguardVZPurp 4 points5 points  (0 children)

        It demonstrates and signals the behavior of status, and is indicative of a personality that won't be walked over.

        Be a selfish asshole to women every and now and then even if you aren't normally. It works, especially if you have value in the group.

        [–][deleted]  (2 children)

        [deleted]

        [–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (1 child)

        Be interested in her as a sex object, not as a person.

        [–]paullesand 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        Ha! Like that works at all.....

        [–]Sturmgeist781 19 points20 points  (1 child)

        So when you treat them like dirt, they think you must be god's gift to women.

        Treat a girl like dirt and she'll stick to you like mud.

        [–][deleted] -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

        Only the ones who think they deserve it. Only the ones who don't think they're good enough for a real man. Low quality, trailer trash bitches.

        [–]ajswdf 5 points6 points  (0 children)

        It's not anything new, but it's a good analogy to help understand it.

        It's generally not what you say that matters, but what you communicate. If you say "I make $1 million a year" but drive a shitty car and live in a trailer you'll communicate that you're poor. In the same way, you need to communicate to women that you're a high value sexual partner, which means acting like it doesn't matter whether or not she likes you.

        [–]HeadingRed 23 points24 points  (4 children)

        It's window shopping. How about this converse theory- women go after men based on what the initially see with the idea of "fixing" him later. Men go after what they initially see with the hope that it pretty much stays the same.

        And I am not just talking about appearance here.

        It's how a women after dataing for 3 months starts to decide that you need to change (called "growth" in hamsterspeak) which often means stopping doing something that was once ok or doing something that you never wanted to in the first place.

        Men meet a woman and go "wow, this is nice. Hope it stays that way". Women meet a man and go "He's awesome- let me change that"

        [–][deleted]  (1 child)

        [deleted]

          [–]fuckeh 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          Hmm I've seen that happen before. They'll break up with a guy for not changing, and seem to have a hard time getting over them. My best friend growing up was like that, wouldn't change for girls and they always seemed to struggle getting over him. Like one of his first girlfriends professed her love for him, after having a child with another guy and being broken up for years. They dated as teenagers and she still can't forget him.

          [–]drok007 5 points6 points  (0 children)

          I posted this exact sentiment a few years ago on another subreddit, well before this sub existed and I was downvoted to oblivion. Nice to see the truth is respected for what it is here.

          [–]ThisisMalta 4 points5 points  (0 children)

          Because Women like confidence..in physical nature and mentally. It's biologically in them to do so.

          [–]General_Fear[🍰] 8 points9 points  (1 child)

          This woman explains why she likes assholes.

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFQXvVXFE5g

          [–]kirby987 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Man, show that shit to those sad souls at Blue Pill. Women are fuckign crazy LOL.

          [–][deleted]  (1 child)

          [deleted]

          [–]Sabarot 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          That's why I can't subscribe to the "fake it til you make it" strategy a lot of PUA-types advocate. Like you say, it can get results in the short-term, but I know a lot of these phony fucks. Once their burqas come off they are boys. And the women they have attracted are wildly disappointed.

          [–]FortunateBum 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          I completely agree and I just wrote a post outlining this

          http://www.reddit.com/r/asktrp/comments/1wuo6e/why_are_women_attracted_to_alphas/cf5lsk5

          Dark Triad traits are high-status traits. "Game" is signifying (or faking) your status in order to attract women. Women are primarily sexually attracted to status. Status is anything which could possibly benefit her future offspring. Physical dominance, such as in BDSM, is a subset, or possibly form, of status.

          [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          Humans user stereotypes for a reason - they work :)

          [–]Cookachoo 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          I have been thinking for a while now as to the reasons women are attracted to assholes so much and the same reason that makes me like a big pair of tits and a tone butt and legs seems to be most prevalent to them as well. Its simply in our genetics, as a man i am attracted to a woman because long ago before the many comforts of society came into play my ancestors instincts told them that women with large breasts would make optimal mating partners no feed their offspring, and larger hips would be ideal for birthing. Now with this being said one would imagine woman of that time period having a similar list for an ideal mate. now with survival in mind a woman might be attracted to a more muscular man, as he has the strength to protect her from natural unavoidable harm, but this is not the only sort of strength that a man of that era would need to survive, my cave dweller ancestors needed to be quick with their wits, and know how to reason, how to plan, and more importantly, how to be assertive. we can all agree that even in todays day and age a male that walks around without a set of goals or any real ambition to move forward in life isnt the most atractive potential mate, this went doubly so a long time ago as there was no communal system to look after everyone, ie healthcare. So with this taking into consideration it would seem prudent for my ancestors to not only value ambition and hardwork, but also the ability to see the ambition in others, and to know when someone is wasting their time or trying to pull a fast one on them and respectively put them in their place or call them out on it, I believe it is this survival instinct that created the asshole as it was necesary back than, but remains today because of human nature

          [–]Abadoobie 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          We all constantly maintain and update our concept of other people based on the information we have. It isn't static but constantly tested and changed. Part of that concept includes social and sexual value.

          What you would think to yourself when encountering a woman would start with how valuable you thought you were. Some behaviors will indicate she thinks she is lower-value than you, some will indicate she thinks she is higher-value than you. Some will indicate she thinks you are equal. If she's a cunt, it most likely means(based on your experience observing female behavior) she thinks you're beneath her. Your response(now believing she's high-value) might be to prove that you are equal or higher so she will accept you. Doing so will include behaviors that display social value, including visual indicators like expressions of wealth or inclusion in high-value peer groups.

          But the reverse is also true. Men who act like they are of higher-value(being a dick) are rejecting a woman admittance to his peer group(the one SHE put him in). Women are obsessed with physical appearance because it's how they provoke acceptance from males. It's also a big part of how they assign value to each other. It's also why feminism and whatnot are trying desperately to make physical appearance meaningless. That way nobody has to feel rejected, everyone can be part of the same peer group. Which is a useless effort.

          Keep in mind however that status is constantly changing. Every interaction is a challenge to status and thus value. A low-value male hitting on a high-value female is a challenge to that woman's sense of value. She MUST reject him because in not doing so, she is accepting admittance to his peer group. In fact, she often must consider it an INSULT to be hit on my lower-value males, something I'm sure we've all observed countless times. If she doesn't act according to her station, she risks being rejected by her own peer-group. Because peer groups are an indicator of value, her association with him lowers her value just as your association with low-value males lowers yours. Women protect fiercely their social status.

          Women are attracted to assholes simply because they behave in ways that indicate high-status.

          [–]WaitWhyNot 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          Well holy crap. Mind blown.

          [–]sadproz 2 points3 points  (22 children)

          Men are attracted to visual values.

          Women are attracted to behavioral values.

          Your analogy works wonders because for us to imagine their reality it's best to imagine they are blind to looks and money—and only see behavior. As someone once stated, the best looking guy at a party and the life of the party are two completely different guys. Looks actually has nothing to do with it, for women.

          Women are wired to analyze behavior and choose the guy who would be chosen by many, but they just happened to "win the lottery" with him for the night.

          EDIT: My comment about "looks having nothing to do" with it has thrown people off who have a bent for the literal. I'm not actually in denial that looks is an advantage. I live in America, with a TV after all. What I mean is, to use an analogy, is that we judge the looks of food, but if a chef can make a nutritional meal that tastes better, leaves you satiated, and gives Heroin like effects of addiction, you would be going to that meal more than the better looking platter. Once everyone is visiting that chef's restaurant, raving about the addictive and wonderful experience of eating his food (social proof)—you won. Now you turn your restaurant into a franchise.

          When a good looking guy starts out confident, but then you knock him down a peg and he didn't expect it, his ego deflates—in front of women. There has to be MORE to being an Alpha than looks. But looks is important as it indicates to women what they are about to eat, so it has the advantage of speed—instant ON. But looks doesn't make a women cum. It doesn't turn on their addictive hormones that has them coming back for more. Again, there is actually deeper things happening than looks. This is why I'm here. This is what I want to learn. I can get lift tips elsewhere.

          [–]RedSunBlue 8 points9 points  (21 children)

          Looks actually has nothing to do with it, for women.

          Bullshit, son.

          Anyone who has gone from poorly dressed and out of shape to well dressed and in shape will understand that looks are important to women.

          [–]sadproz 0 points1 point  (18 children)

          Explain Patrice O'Neal and other non-ideal-looking men getting 9's and 10's? And don't say money because he wasn't rich and in NYC a 9 and 10 can pull millionaires with ease. Patrice O'Neal owned every room he entered. In every room he was always the man of highest value and he entered rooms with good looking and wealthy men. He out behaved everyone. He had no fear due to standup and was comfortable expressing himself like he was in his own living room. He unconditioned himself and his behavior was that of a king.

          Now... If two guys exhibit the exact same value, like in some isolated behavioral lab, yes looks would be the deal breaker. But in the real world behavior makes people look good. I know plenty of guys who I think, "really, him? You think he's hot?" But now I look back and realize its because he "acted" hot that made him "look" hot.

          Where us guys get confused is that if we know we're hot/fit, we "know" we have value, and so we begin behaving like we have value. That's why when you get a girlfriend or spin plates it's easier to pull more girls because you're confident you have value. And value is a magnet.

          That's why it's good to lift or workout, say, post breakup of an LTR because it eliminates stress (self-hate, subconscious tension) and boosts your self-image which translates to value. But if you can create an inner effect of value from other activities that give you a healthy self image (building frame) then you don't need to look good.

          Look up "posing" in relation to fashion photography. If a male model with abs posed like he was a man of lower value next to a man wearing a sweatshirt and exhibiting higher value due to confidence, a woman would usually become attracted to the man of higher value even though she could acknowledge the man with abs has a good body.

          I will give you that value isn't only determined by behavior but for women it's more of a core need. Your behavior categorizes you, just like her looks categorizes her. Your behavior tells her if you're worthy as a lover, provider, or a chode. Better to be a chode with a six pack than without, but the lover wins every time.

          I will even out my argument by saying that the more obese you are then the more sickly you look, and people are wired to stay away from that look (think sickly man with snot and sneezing, it's a reflex to stay away). Plus being obese lowers your self-image anyway. So women really will be repelled.

          Edit: spelling

          [–]RedSunBlue 0 points1 point  (11 children)

          Explain Patrice O'Neal and other non-ideal-looking men getting 9's and 10's?

          All they prove is that game can compensate for looks, not that looks don't matter.

          Also, I love Patrice as much as the next guy, but there's no proof he was banging 9's and 10's.

          I prefer to play the percentages, and on average, muscular guys get laid more.

          /r/TheRedPill/comments/1uuvtb/reminder_muscularity_is_sexy/

          I don't have any study on hand to show the effects of dressing well, but I'm sure the same correlations are likely to apply.

          This is not to say that game is useless. It's quite important, actually. However, to say that "looks don't matter" is a blatant falsity that flies in the face of the natural world. If you think we're so far removed from the animal world that the female instinct to breed with large, powerful males has disappeared, I don't know what else to tell you besides try it for yourself.

          [–]sadproz -1 points0 points  (10 children)

          "All they prove is that game can compensate for looks."

          What does this mean? The game is the game. That's why we're here. To win.

          Obviously everyone in the world agrees that looking fit never harms, always helps, but this is the game and we're here to study the rules.

          If the rule is: 1. Work out 2. There are no more rules

          Then I don't know what the hell we're wasting our time for. Sub over. End or TRP.

          [–]RedSunBlue 1 point2 points  (9 children)

          All they prove is that game can compensate for looks.

          What does this mean? The game is the game. That's why we're here. To win.

          There is no point in even replying to you anymore.

          [–]sadproz -1 points0 points  (8 children)

          Awesome. Your barrel is shallow. I must have reached the bottom.

          [–]RedSunBlue 2 points3 points  (7 children)

          This is not to say that game is useless. It's quite important, actually. However, to say that "looks don't matter" is a blatant falsity that flies in the face of the natural world. If you think we're so far removed from the animal world that the female instinct to breed with large, powerful males has disappeared, I don't know what else to tell you besides try it for yourself.

          [–]sadproz -1 points0 points  (6 children)

          Sigh. I'm obviously 100% not saying looking like an MMA fighter isn't a benefit over looking like a Jabba the Hut impersonator.

          My takeaway point is that we all know in high school looks was important. That was like TRP 101. But this is college. I wan't to gain more knowledge and add more to the intellectual model that is TRP. Making a post about "looks matter" is like making a post in "r/get better at basketball" by saying "learn to jump higher."

          In other words—obviously. But what else?

          Focusing on looks is really not adding to this sub because we already have the 5th grade education.

          [–]RedSunBlue 2 points3 points  (1 child)

          I'm obviously 100% not saying looking like an MMA fighter isn't a benefit over looking like a Jabba the Hut impersonator.

          No, your original assertion was

          Looks actually has nothing to do with it, for women.

          I'm here telling you that this is statement is complete horseshit. Looks matter and they matter a lot. And so does game and status.

          If you really want to "gain more knowledge and add more to the intellectual model that is TRP", don't post shit that is demonstrably false.

          My takeaway point is that we all know in high school looks was important. That was like TRP 101. But this is college. I wan't to gain more knowledge and add more to the intellectual model that is TRP. Making a post about "looks matter" is like making a post in "r/get better at basketball" by saying "learn to jump higher."

          In other words—obviously. But what else?

          If you read that link I posted, there's still lots to learn about what factors of physical appearance actually relate to sexual success.

          See, you, and people like you, know looks matter, yet you go around this sub posting all that RSD, feel-good, looks-don't-matter bullshit. Most likely because you don't want to face the fact that you are hamstringing yourself by refusing to work on yourself.

          Looks matter and they matter a lot. That's some fucking hard truth, and that's the red pill.

          [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children)

          My takeaway point is that we all know in high school looks was important. That was like TRP 101. But this is college. I wan't to gain more knowledge and add more to the intellectual model that is TRP.

          Honestly, we just gave you the best advice you'll ever find anywhere. You don't want knowledge, you want a fucking ez way out, but there is no easy way out. It requires hard work, discipline and upkeep. It is a long fucking road, and you will have to work to make your way down it.

          TRP is all about truths, and the biotruths were are talking about here are 100% real, and if wielded effectively will change your entire life.

          [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (5 children)

          Yeah! Explain the exception of rich / famous fat guys getting hot chicks dude!

          Because obviously any normal fat guy can do the same thing!

          [–]sadproz -2 points-1 points  (4 children)

          VALUE.

          What is it? Is it looking fit? End thread? End TRP?

          What if someone visits /r/theredpill and is already fit, whats the advice then? Keep working out more?

          Are you saying two guys look fit, the one that has higher muscle composition pulls more girls? It has nothing to do with behavior, action, emotions, psychology?

          I feel like I've reached the end of TRP here. I can just stop subscribing here and subscribe to /r/fitness only. That will be my game changer.

          [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (3 children)

          What if someone visits /r/theredpill and is already fit, whats the advice then?

          Get fitter. See how deep the rabbit hole goes. Unless you look like Lazar Angelov you have no fuckin reason to stop.

          It has nothing to do with behavior, action, emotions, psychology?

          Lol, fuck off with this troll shit. Nobody said game wasn't a component. They said statements such as:

          Looks actually has nothing to do with it, for women.

          Is BS, and it is.

          [–]sadproz -2 points-1 points  (2 children)

          This is a joke, right? With up votes and everything?

          You're saying two NJ guido's should just keep lifting to pull more girls? Theres no, like, behavioral psychology involved?

          Obviously advertising more gets more customers. But I'm here to make my ads better, more creative, more psychologically effective. I want to combine strategies, not focus on just one.

          Obviously a person should learn to jump higher to be better at basketball. It will improve his game. But what then? Just keep adding inches to his jump? There's no strategy, dribbling, improving hand-eye coordination and decision making speed? There are no psychological tricks to confuse or frustrate opponents?

          I feel like I've reached the end of this sub's theory.

          Obviously looking good improves game because you're fucking with the way a women's brain processes information via her visual cortex. But why, during evolution, did we develop visual cortexes, you fucking Einstein?

          You have a great Alpha attitude. But your capability to teach is lacking. I'll look elsewhere for the knowledge I seek.

          Just FYI. I've pulled girls from better looking guys. I knocked their confidence. They didn't feel smart, quick, couldn't manipulate reality as they expected to in those moments. Obviously they'll be fine. But they walked away going, "What was that? What just happened?"

          The answer wasn't, "I visited the gym more."

          [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

          You need a new user name: ExceptionsRefuteAllRulez

          [–]sadproz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          When I look back at all the Alphas I've witnessed, known, befriended, and when I have been in and out of Alpha status, there is one consistency—behavior.

          A thug will out Alpha you any day, because he don't give a fuck and knows how to pull your fear strings. He behaves in a way you rarely see. You have to go out of your way into the worst neighborhood. Find the guy pulling the most girls. He will be fit, but he won't be the biggest, strongest physically. But if you could "see" his behavior he would be the largest guy in the room.

          Like a black-widow spider walking across a crowded room. When everyone gasps in horror, you know the spider's value.

          Room control. Comedians have it. Athletes have it. Musicians have it. Celebrities have it.

          There are plenty of good looking guys that walk into a room, and no one gives a shit. When people give a shit, the women will tingle.

          EDIT: I like the name. What's interesting is that people with exceptional conditions, like a business owner with dyslexia, actually develops better teachable methods because, having this exception, they are forced to learn how to delegate tasks, organize the HR structure to work without him, and so on. They often grow the most efficient companies, with formula-repetative sales and less growth constraints. See, the best person to learn basketball from is the shorter guy that can hold game in the NBA. You can't teach being 8-feet tall. I wanna learn game from the ugly guy with the best women. That guys has something to learn from. So I will wear your nickname proudly.

          [–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (1 child)

          But how do we know that isn't about the effect on perceived status, instead of just appearance itself? And does that even matter?

          [–]RedSunBlue 3 points4 points  (0 children)

          Because we're animals first.

          [–]PlayFair 1 point2 points  (1 child)

          [–]paullesand 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Yes, life does suck, just like that show.

          [–]Endorsed Contributorredpillbanana 0 points1 point  (3 children)

          Excellent theory. It is very much like bluffing in poker.

          [–]alcockell 0 points1 point  (2 children)

          While Aspies like me play with the completely open hand in Bridge...

          Will the autistic gene-set survive? Or will we need Marriage 1.0 or 1.5 back to give Aspies like me a chance?

          [–]paullesand 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          What are you even saying?

          [–]Atheistlest 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          You might have more of a chance if you stop calling yourself an ass pie.

          [–]patrick_____bateman 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Good post. Not exactly an RP blog but this post talks about similar thing, why neediness is unattractive.

          [–]asaspade5 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Solid logic, bro. Very well put.

          [–]superkewldood 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          That was very insightful, thanks.

          [–]rednukleus 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Thanks for the explanation Milo.

          [–]sasaraix 0 points1 point  (1 child)

          Woman doesnt like asshole, its just that asshole traits are link to traits of masculinity- having direction and prioritizing his own life over other needs.

          [–]sasaraix 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          masculinity=alpha, for the newbies here.

          [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Now replace "burqa" with "make-up". It's quite the same thing.

          [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Yep. That's pretty spot on.

          [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          I'd like to expand, because even though the original post has a lot of truth in it, it is far from the whole truth.

          First of all we need to realize that the "beta man", "bluepiller", whatever you prefer to call it is a modern creation. This type of man didn't exist before in history, because it is an unnatural form of existence, it is a child born to be a man but forced by the environment to be a woman. Yes, gender is a social construct and the proof are these men. Their brain programming is the same as a woman, they think and act like women on a fundamental level. This is extremely unnatural and women reject this as a sexual partner in the same way us men would reject a woman with an unnaturally shaped body or unnatural behavior.

          But of course there's not only betas and assholes, what about the balanced, rational men? In today's society these kind of men are so rare that a woman do not have any set prejudices about them as she's met so few. They will prefer stereotypical assholes that they are familiar with and can easily categorize. Socializing and group thinking is the most important thing occupying a woman's brain, a guy that neither behaves like a beta or an asshole appears to her as clearly not understanding the society he lives in. Why does this strange man not fall in line? This is key to why it is so much easier to connect with people and especially women in foreign cultures. She will accept your behavior without the same prejudices since you are from an unknown society with unknown rules.

          The woman is aware of the "asshole" guys reputation as an "asshole" so she is more comfortable spending time with him because he will take the focus away from her flaws. Since slut-shaming has been abolished in our society, she will not be scrutinized for giving herself to an asshole. However since he's an asshole with a lot of faults she thinks he will have a lot more tolerance of her faults. People feel comfortable around people they think will not judge them.

          Lastly the way women and men value other men is totally different. A man will value other men based on their integrity, loyalty and honor. A man will always make his own judgement of another man's worth, regardless of the other man's place in society. That is why male companionship is such a strong bond. It is something created by two individuals, not a function of group rank. For a woman however, loyalty , integrity and honor are alien concepts. She is created by evolution to not be able to understand these concepts in their pure forms. Her sole way of judging men are by their rank in the group, and since she doesn't have the mental capacity to make a qualified judgement she has to use symptoms. That is why game works. She will understand a man treating her a lower value as a man of higher value. She will understand a man being confident as a man having reason for that confidence (and she is right, because being a man is reason alone to be confident).

          For the posters replying that women don't like real assholes, they like confident men and it's just jealous betas calling them assholes - you're right! I'm far from an asshole, but I've been treated called it and treated as such too many times by girls and betas. It is because women only have two categories to put men in. It's either beta(=woman in a mans body) or confident/asshole. For her sexual attraction it doesn't really matter if you are just confident or if you're a true dick. She will never have the capacity to understand the difference between these two, because her brain is created by evolution to categorize men into two categories: Those men she wants to have sex with and those she doesn't.

          And as betas are women brains in male bodies and therefore they will also be quick to put any confident guy or rival in the asshole category.

          [–]TRP__ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Your premises are false. Men do not only look for looks and neither do women not judge attractiveness based on physical appearance. Both men and women are attracted to physical traits well as on hidden ones. However, men probably focus more on the physical side.

          You make a good point about responses when approaching though. The women who shuts you down probably has many other guys standing in line. Or she could be just a bitch not worth wasting time on. The girl is excited for the date is not necessarily ugly. She could be really into you. It's not as straight forward as you point it out to be. It's mostly conjecture.

          [–]Insomania 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          damn OP, you put the nail on the dot. I actually never thought of it that way. that was a pretty good analogy.

          Mind if I steal it when I explain to my friends?

          [–]-robknows- 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Interesting.... wow, VERY interesting. Nice one OP.

          [–]ToFaceA_god 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          I am in a relationship with a very strong minded, and sexy woman. She is younger and acts like a child at times, and I point that out. Not to belittle her, or show her I'm dominant. But because I respect her enough to know she is better, and am not afraid to show her how stupid she acts. And I expect the same from her. She absolutely loves being "Daddy's little cum slut" during sex, and she loves taking care of me, and making sure I am satisfied. In return I satisfy her, and afterwards I show her how much I appreciate what she does for me.

          I want to in rich my life with this relationship. If and when it ends, I want to look back on these days as the time of my life. And I want the same for her. Always leave them better than you left them.

          With great penis power comes great responsibility.

          [–]p5ych0naut 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          I don't think its as simple as "women love assholes," nor do I think its as complex as developing some psychological theory as to why women would seek semi-abusive behavior in a partner. Its pretty simple, and its funny that other guys seem to have a hard time getting this.

          1) Most men are assholes, its, more or less, our nature (like sleeping around).

          2) Women (just like men) really only want to have sex with someone that they feel comfortable around, and who doesn't seem like a freak.

          3) Most women are comfortable with men who act naturally, and are comfortable with themselves, their body, and their personality (i.e. don't act like freaks).

          So, if you act like an asshole towards a woman, but you act naturally about it and are comfortable, because that is just who you are, she will pick up on the fact that you are not picking on her, or specifically being mean, and that you are just being yourself. Furthermore, people who are confident, and of strong character, are sexy, regardless of whether you are a man checking out a confident woman, a woman checking out a confident man, a woman checking out a confident woman, or a man checking out a confident man. People who are confident and secure with themselves are just plain fucking sexy.

          Does that make sense? It's like, being an asshole is becoming more and more accepted, so, rather than hide it, its better to be open about it, be comfortable with it, and own it. Women see that, and they're like,

          "Damn, he's owning his asshole-ishness like a man. He must have big balls."

          [–]strangerstranger90 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          word

          [–]SSolus 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          This is amazing! 0.0

          [–]JoJackthewonderskunk 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Damn good analogy.

          [–]carrotplanter 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          The

          [–]carrotplanter 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          The question is, do I look fabulous in my burqa or what?

          [–]optimisticbatman 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Genius!

          [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          This should be stickied. It's a simple and elegant way of explaining women's general attractions to men.

          [–]WilliamGuns 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Point taken. I'm bookmarking this.

          [–]Concentrating 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Women don't EXACTLY only like assholes. They like confidence, initiative, and humor, and assholes tend to have that. Due to the lack of a need for a patriarchal alpha male in modern society, a lot of females are confused as to what security entails. The biggest dickhead creates the image of an alpha regardless of how full of shit he is, and that attracts such confused women.

          [–]ajhimmler -1 points0 points  (0 children)

          Bravo.

          [–]mc0079 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

          Sure.....but PLEASE....let's separate being confident and having "balls" from the term "assholes"....being confident and having the balls to go up and say hi to a women at a bar is NOT being an asshole...however to some socially awkward "nice guy" who dreams of tipping his fedora to m'lady it would be because of their own insecurity.

          [–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

          Eugh imagine if she was all eager to go on a date. Uggo for sure

          [–]SovietRaptor -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

          Holy shit this is great.

          [–]TorontoMike -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

          Women like assholes because of biology, modern society is just a recent development. We still have the brains and biology for small social groups or packs that we used to live in tens of thousands of years ago . Two animals that have social groups like humans are gorillas and wolves. Both have a very strict social order of a leader alpha and a few lieutenants then every one else betas going down the line in descending order. Now the asshole is bucking the social order rather then just keeping his place, he might even be one of the lieutenants or just a lowly guy on the pecking order but he is still aggressive and might rise up the social pecking order so the woman's biology tells her to jump on that because then she might be the mate of the Alpha leader one day . The second reason is what you see in wolf packs is that when they make a kill they eat in order of rank and if things are going bad for them then the Alphas will eat and the others will starve but an asshole not caring about social order will go in and try and steal the food and maybe share it with his mate so the woman's biology tells her to latch on to this guy for the future and for insurance in case food gets scarce.

          [–]Wednesdayayay -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

          shitty father figure + shittily raised young "men" = no clue what a real man who actually cares looks like men are being raised so as sex is the answer to boredom. they love what they know

          it isn't that hard to figure out

          [–]Meglomaniac -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

          The reason why they like assholes is that assholes are usually very selfish. This means that they try to get as much resources as they can, and the woman knows that she will share them.