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Red Pill TheoryRemember: A Woman Will Have Sex With A Man She Doesn't Love, But She'll Never Love A Man She's Not Having Sex With (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by Endorsed ContributorMeat-on-the-table

Intro: The title says it all,really.


Body

I wrote a post some time back about a female friend of mine who was cheating on her BB boyfriend; she was more or less celibate with him whilst she fucked a good friend of mine raw. She recently had a major blowup with the guy she was sleeping with, complete with emotional social media posts and a lot of whining on both their parts,none of,thankfully, directed at me.

This reinforced something I came across a long time ago that really needed a real-life example to ingrain: a woman will sleep with you without being in love with you, but it's generally impossible to find a woman who is in love with a man she's never slept with.

The first objection that comes to mind when you think this is that there are lots of couples who save themselves till marriage and are head-over-heels prior to ever having sex. This line of thinking does not take into account the truth of social and biological dynamics. Whenever people who haven't had sex proclaim love, what they're really saying is that they have an invested and practical attachment to the point where they will have sex.

Marriage was designed to be the optimum pay-off for the sexes exchanging their respective values: the woman would give a man sex for, ideally, her first time; the man would commit to the woman for the duration of her life, well past the point of biological utility. Could you call this love? Sure you could...but what's undeniable is the fact that the reciprocity of value exchanged influenced the decision to stay with each other and the "love" was just a practical realisation of the need to hang onto the investment.

These days of course, the chances of you being the first man a woman has slept with are slimmer than imaginable. More likely, you're just the latest in a string of men she's slept with, and when you make your exit, the trend continues

That means that buying into the paradigm that she needs to love you first is a fool's endeavour. The strongest bonder you can ask for is that sweet,sweet oxytocin that gets released during sex. It's regarded as the love hormone for a reason, and the lack of its release, along with the warped dopamine release circuitry that a CC rider has, is one of the primary reasons why you should never enter into a relationship with a slut.

If we are to consider her sex as her prize, then she's already proven that she will give it away for X amount of input. Yet, many men fall into the trap of contributing X+X just for the same "prize."

Whenever you hear the hamstering about her wanting to make sure that what you have is more solid before she sleeps with you, ask yourself this: what are the chances that she's given it away for less in the past? If she's a virgin, then obviously the probability is 0; if she isn't then you rapidly approach certainty with every partner she's had since. You would essentially be paying more for something that has diminished in value.

One of the pillars of this deception is the belief that a woman's time is worth the same as a man's. This is patently false. Your commitment is far more important and precious than you can imagine. If you're giving her this, but getting nothing in return, you're forsaking your own place as her captain and implicitly informing her that what you have is of less value than what she has.

From all appearances, however, a man can love a woman without having sex with her. If we strip away all the conceits, then an orbiter essentially loves the woman he orbits, because he's giving her all the signs and perks of a woman he loves, all the while receiving nothing substantive except teases and carefully phrased glimmers of hope that he'll get sex one of these days. Does the orbiter truly love the woman he's with? Unlikely--but if you were to make an assessment of who invested what and what returns they got, the woman being orbited will always come out on top.

Never fall into the trap of believing that a the rules of investment for men and women are remotely similar.


Summary: It's really in the title. Want more detail?Then read the post.


[–]benuntu 140 points141 points  (84 children)

As a side note to this one, my experience is that the women that make you wait for more than a couple dates to have sex are rarely good in bed, or have other issues. They are trying to figure out if that's all you're after, because they know it's going to be disappointing for you.

So moral of the story, along with this is don't wait long for sex. It's either not going to be good, or the woman is trying to force you into a beta role. Next!

[–]103342 139 points140 points  (57 children)

The fucked up thing is that there is a paradox tha I, personally, can't solve.

If a girl gives up too easy, I just can't respect her enough to have a relationship.

If she waits until she is "confortable with me", I'm probably gonna bail long before we fuck. Because I consider women to be a shitty investment of time in general.

So... I either continue to fuck sluts or risk wating time and maybe money.

Honestly, I think I'll just keep on fucking sluts...

[–]rp_newdawn 44 points45 points  (1 child)

I agree and run into the same paradox with almost all the women I have met. The answer is simple... Walk away from the women that lose your attention, fuck the attractive ones that let you, and if you rarely find one who is interesting enough that she is worth your time without sex up front then enjoy yourself and see what happens

[–]1Su-Wu_Red 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Exactly. You don't have to over think it, just do what you feel like doing.

[–]yaysmr 20 points21 points  (9 children)

I just can't respect her enough to have a relationship.

Because I consider women to be a shitty investment of time in general.

I'm seeing that you have some level of conflict in your goals here.

IF you are in fact looking for a relationship, then you ought to be considering other factors than the sex. If you generally consider women a waste of time, then why are you seeking a relationship.

If you are looking for relationships, then have a few other boxes that need to be checked other than "has sex on first date" that will help you find reasons to stick around even if she makes you wait for sex.

Now, I completely get the paradox, but you're putting yourself in this position by assuming that women are not worth your time while ALSO looking for a relationship with one.

Honestly, I think I'll just keep on fucking sluts...

And there's your solution.

[–]103342 3 points4 points  (8 children)

I want both. I love sex and want a relationship.

But I want a relationship with a top-tier girl. One that I can have children someday.

The problem is that I still want to have kids (although I am gradually giving up on the idea, day by day).

If it wasn't for children I wouldn't even be concerned with relationships. Thats why my standards are retardedly high.

[–]wont_tell_i_refuse_ 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I want both. I love sex and want a relationship.

But I want a relationship with a top-tier girl. One that I can have children someday.

Women say things like this, and we (rightly) call them out for having expectations that are too high.

I think a man's N-count matters as a negative to very very few women, but it's not exactly crazy to say that a high-quality girl would easily suss out your player ways and rule you out early.

[–]1Entropy-7 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I turn 50 this year so the window is closing on having kids (who will at least come into their own before I die), but for the time being I am still in that sort of mode so my standards are crazy high: 15 to 25 years younger, nice body, smart, pleasant and such.

I have stuck to the three date rule for pretty much my whole adult life; if not after 3 dates then it never happened. The only exception is my latest girlfriend. We fooled around within the first month but had a bumpy road and did not do the deed until more than 6 months after our initial meeting.

But she is tall (5'9"), slim (BMI 20), pretty, sweet, and smart with a notch count of 3 prior to me. She is still a woman, so not perfect or a unicorn but an HB8, although YMMV as she is Chinese.

She has a great body but the sex is not so great. Not starfish sex but rather tame. . .and she has never sucked dick. However, she is trainable. If I was not serious about a relationship with her I would not invest the time and energy into making the sex better.

[–]ihateyouguys 4 points5 points  (5 children)

What's so attractive to you about having kids?

[–]103342 10 points11 points  (3 children)

Seems to be pretty rewarding to see your son growing up.

Also, fear of loneliness as I get older. Also, I don't want to be spinning plates for the rest of my life.

[–]TNNRR 21 points22 points  (2 children)

I also have those two feelings sometimes. But:

  1. You might not get to see your son grow up if you divorce. She might fill your son's mind with poison about you and he'll hate you until he's in his twenties at least. While you pay for her shit like makeup and clothes, cars, etc. so she can fuck whoever.

  2. Fear of loneliness is a bad form of motivation. How lonely do you think you'll be at 50 if your wife bails and leaves you fat and broke, or if you never got married, stay fit, and focus on making money? How many balding fat men do you see driving piece of shit cars? Its because their wives probably took their kids, the good car, the dog they trained, and went to go fuck around.

Its a painful reality, but its true.

[–]1Entropy-7 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I'm turning 50 this year and I can still score 20 somethings. I think the concern is more about when I one is in their 70s or beyond. We can't all be Patrick Stewart or Sean Connery. . .or Hugh Hefner (or even Tony Randall) and be giving young, good looking women the tingles at that age.

When my dad was struck with brain cancer and in the hospital his friends came by to see him intermittently but it was his (second) wife and my sisters that were always by his side right up until he died.

[–]103342 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I don't know why you are being downvoted. I agree 100% with what you just said.

[–]slay_it_forward 4 points5 points  (0 children)

It's your biological imperative. Nature rewards you for following it. It's a fulfilling experience.

[–]PanzerBatallion 127 points128 points  (25 children)

This is one of the core problems with Redpill thinking.

You are creating a self fulfilling prophecy with the women you date. You want n=0, but you don't act like that's what you want. What you really want is to get your dick wet, so you encourage behavior that leads to that. After your balls are empty and that moment of clarity hits, you realize "Hah, what a stupid slut, I'd never be with someone that would give it up that easily."

No wonder this sub has a hard time finding women of quality. Anyone with any self respect hits the bricks because they won't suck your dick 45 minutes after they meet you. And once you eliminate them, all you're left with is the whores who learned long ago that they can use sex to get what they want for short term gain and have no problem using you as much as you're using them.

And then people get surprised when they get divorce raped. Well duh, what did you think was going to happen? You're encouraging that type of bullshit by making it clear that you don't give a fuck about her beyond sex, so why should she give a fuck about you beyond your paycheck?

[–]103342 52 points53 points  (1 child)

That is the thing. In my experience, women play the role that YOU give them. Most women at least.

If you don't try to push the "slut side", you won't get the "slut side", she will be the innocent princess her daddy thinks she is.

You have to push her slut side as quick as possible, to see if she is a slut... If you don't, other guys surely will.

[–]unassumingusername7 5 points6 points  (0 children)

You overpaying for sex doesn't make her any less of a slut. It's just bad odds in a "grrl you do anything you want!" culture.

[–]wont_tell_i_refuse_ 31 points32 points  (4 children)

Shit, you just redpilled me on the redpill. Good post.

[–]stawek 4 points5 points  (1 child)

I don't care if a woman is with me just for my paycheck. Fine, as long as she behaves.

The problem is that she can leave, take the kids and KEEP the paycheck.

[–]Ishouldbedoingkegels 12 points13 points  (5 children)

I disagree. I dont think it has to do with self fufilling prophecies, because men right before red pill were the ones who started getting divorce raped.

I also think what you are alluding to is that the burden of preformance is on men, but yet you say it in a way that they need to make smarter choices, and then go on to pretty much absolve women of theirs, which is wrong.

Look youre damned if you do and damned if you dont, what i mean is there is nothing wrong with a man choosing out of wisdom to say fuck it, fuck this world they dont have my best interest, im going to raise my smv, and take the easy lays when they come to me. This is better then out of ignorance to fall in love with a woman who was just using you and then leaves you high and dry 5, 10, 20 years down the line.

Maybe the answer is somewhere in between but what does it matter, better men have failed at keeping together marriages and worse men have managed to hang onto a woman till they both died at 75.

It really has nothing to do with anything cause the universe is an unforgiving cosmic joke, and mother nature is a real bitch.

Learning sexual stratigies doesnt make you a meathead who only chases sluts, and it isnt the reason men get divorce raped. And qualtiy women may be around, but a quality woman is quality until she isnt, and no longer wants to be with you.

[–]PanzerBatallion 6 points7 points  (4 children)

I disagree. I dont think it has to do with self fufilling prophecies, because men right before red pill were the ones who started getting divorce raped.

You act like there weren't men who were with women only for sex at some point in history.

Like it or not, the burden of performance is always on a man. It's one of those basic facts you need to accept. Women aren't EVER going to take responsibility for anything. It's not within their ability to. Hell, just last week my wife got blisters on her feet and blamed my kid for wanting to go to the zoo. No mention of her responsibility to wear appropriate footwear, no mention of the fact that she had to physically drive the child to said zoo, no. Just that the blisters were the child's fault. When your partners are hardwired to deflect responsibility, the responsibility absolutely DOES fall to you. It's up to you to keep the relationship going straight because she's not going to put in the effort.

I don't have all the answers. I ended up in a very good situation, and have been for 17 years. I know what's been working for me, but I don't know all the variables to know how or why I ended up here. But I can tell you one thing - everything people think about a couple that's been married for 17 years doesn't apply to me. I don't know whether that's through dumb luck or whether it's something I did in the beginning, but it's set the tone for a really good situation for me. I am on autopilot for the rest of my life? No, women need constant direction, and you can't let them do what they want or you're never going to get anything done. Like it or not, it IS your responsibility to keep them in line, when you decide you don't want that responsibility anymore, that's when they leave. They WANT you to do that. The reason they leave is they don't respect you in that role anymore.

[–]Endorsed ContributorInvalidity 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Not to knock on you or your long lasting relationship, but there seems to be many factors at play as to why your relationship would last longer than someone else's.

I'd have to ask the following:

  • Are you significantly more attractive than your partner?
  • Did you marry her when she was young (around 21/22) or slightly older (closer to 30 or older)?
  • Are you currently older than 40? (generational differences apply)

Etcetera etcetera. One great point that you do bring up is that you seem to have a firm grasp on your role in the partnership. In this case, you are fully aware that you need to direct the show. You know that that doesn't mean authoritarianism, but you will take charge in most cases and essentially for all critical decisions.

I'd posit that the reason women leave is because of a single question that looms over them: Can I do better? If a woman is fully invested in her partnership, she'll spend more and more of her time and exert more effort to keep her partner around. The reason why a lot of women cheat on their partners is because most of the men who would end up in a relationship are the type that don't make their partners invest.

If a guy consistently gives everything away and asks for nothing in return, she'll be left to wonder if she can do better. Most guys would love to be in the woman's shoes, with a partner who dotes on them. But we know that doesn't happen, and it is actually the opposite wherein many women will get showered with adornment and gifts, and many men will get next to nothing.

Essentially anything that drives a woman away from committing to a relationship, will make her question her own commitment. Yet unsurprisingly enough, women will tend to stay with abusive partners.

[–]PanzerBatallion 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Oh, definitely. As I said, I'm not sure how I got into this situation, but the things that people say they want out of a partner are what I get out of mine, with very few exceptions. Most of my curiosity with the Red Pill forums is me looking for more data points or an explanation for why my relationship is going just fine, while most others turn to complete shit in a fraction of the time. To your questions -

1- No, I'd say we're about the same. She's a beautiful woman, I'm a decent, unique looking guy (6'3, 200ish, less when we met). I'm not the kinda guy that shaves every day (or ever), my hair goes to the middle of my back, and I don't shop anywhere that doesn't sell jeans and t-shirts. For all intents and purposes, I married up in the looks department.

2 - We got married when we were 19. Everyone said it was a bad idea then, but we've seen most of those people get married and divorced by now. Some multiple times. I married her because I realized she thought about things very differently than other women I've encountered. She still gets emotional about certain subjects, but she is able to rationally think about things a few hours later, which has lead to scant few arguments over stupid shit throughout the years. I've never slept on my couch, and I'd be willing to bet you can't find too many guys who have been married for going on 20 years who can say that.

3 - In case you haven't done the math, we're 36. And absolutely, generational differences do apply. We were married before cell phones, facebook, etc.

Other things to note - she makes over double what I do. I worked my ass off to put her thru school, and now she wants me to retire and pursue my other interests as soon as possible. This isn't some new, outta the blue thing either, this has been her philosophy for almost a decade, unwaveringly. When I take long amounts of time off of work, she's at her happiest.

We have an open relationship, but she has no interest in other men. Literally none. I've seen her interact with other men, and she is absolutely repulsed by the thought of almost all of them. I think what drives this is her almost crippling fear of STD's. She has a friend who had the cervical cancer type of HPV, and that completely shut down any and all thoughts she ever had of having sex with anyone other than me.

I, on the other hand, get to be with whomever I want, whenever I want, within reason. Obviously I'm not parading around the house in front of my kids with the mistresses. I'm discreet about shit, but anything and everything is fair game. She wants to see me happy, and me banging other chicks is a turn on. I don't get it, I certainly am not interested in seeing the reverse of that, but that's fine since she's not interested in anyone but me.

And finally, I literally get more sex than I want at this point. There has not at any point in my relationship ever been a dead bedroom. Even when we were going thru a rough patch for a few years, we still fucked frequently.

Like I said - I don't know how I ended up in this situation, but since there's no such thing as unicorns, I'm interested in trying to figure out what I can learn from it, what advice I can pass on to others, and how to help out. One of the few things I did notice is what we touched on - women don't want to be "controlled," but yes, they absolutely do. They'll all be happy to tell you about their father or that one BF they had who was a controlling dick, but then right after that they will refuse to make a selection on a place for dinner. They want you to make the decisions, but they don't want to feel like you're making the decisions. They are the happiest when you take their money, pay their bills, and then give them an allowance - that way they can't waste it on stupid shit and they get to enjoy nice things with you for a change, instead of fucking clothes and shoes that get worn once.

Unfortunately, with how anti LTR and anti marriage this sub is, it's hard to get any other input on why some LTR's work and why they don't. I don't think it's unfair to say that when men are dating they are looking to get their dick wet, and by eliminating chicks who won't put out within the first couple of dates, you are eliminating a large segment of the pool who may well be compatible with your long term interests. Obviously you don't want a dead fish, but you also don't want a woman who's willing to drop her panties for someone within the first hour of meeting someone either. There's a middle ground there, and if you're looking for something other than a plate, you need to consider that.

That was the point of the original paradox post.

[–]Endorsed ContributorInvalidity 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I, on the other hand, get to be with whomever I want, whenever I want, within reason. Obviously I'm not parading around the house in front of my kids with the mistresses. I'm discreet about shit, but anything and everything is fair game. She wants to see me happy, and me banging other chicks is a turn on. I don't get it, I certainly am not interested in seeing the reverse of that, but that's fine since she's not interested in anyone but me.

That right there is a strong indicator that you have a lot of leverage in your relationship. Most men would never even dream of making such a proposal. I have such an arrangement with my current partner wherein I get to have fun with other girls but she is all mine.

Whatever the reason for your leverage, that is something that separates you from most other men.

I know my personal reasons for not wanting to marry (seen one too many men screwed over by it, even the most cautious of men and ones who took all the legal steps to avoid being screwed over), but in general, I believe TRP pushes the no marriage stance is because the odds are often not in a man's favor. That is especially true for men in Western cultures. We all seen couples from older generations that are more happy than ever, but that is primarily a result of the circumstances of their generation(s). They had less options than people have today, and most notably, a woman's primary way of securing resources for herself was through marriage. Given that women work nowadays, they don't need the resources as much, and would prefer more attractive men.

[–]PanzerBatallion 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Whatever the reason for your leverage, that is something that separates you from most other men.

Yep, which is why I'm kinda interested in figuring out what that dynamic is. That's information that would be useful to people, I'd reckon. I don't know if it's simply the fact that I got lucky and snapped mine up early, or if there's something about our relationship.

My wife does say things like she hears all the women at work bitching about how their husbands don't do anything, how they have a list of chores for them to do, etc. Her reply is that she never has to ask me to do anything. I just do what needs to be done. That's probably an important piece there - if you have someone close enough to you in your life to determine what you need to be doing, you damned well better be on top of your own shit. No one respects anyone who doesn't take care of their own issues.

She is 100% devoted to me, and I don't see that ever changing. I don't make a million bucks a year, I don't look like a model, and I certainly don't have abs anymore. But I've got her wrapped around my finger, and that's the way I intend to keep it.

[–]juliusstreicher 1 point2 points  (0 children)

And then people get surprised when they get divorce raped. Well duh, what did you think was going to happen? You're encouraging that type of bullshit by making it clear that you don't give a fuck about her beyond sex, so why should she give a fuck about you beyond your paycheck?

This is clearly illogical; divorce rape cannot be tied to not giving a fuck about one beyond sex. There is no sex forthcoming, theoretically, in a divorce-ergo, it is unreasonable, and evil, to extort anything beyond the fulfillment of a marriage contract.

You are going on about...I know not what.

[–]TRP VanguardHumanSockPuppet 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No wonder this sub has a hard time finding women of quality.

If this is your main criticism, then you have not understood Red Pill ideas yet.

You are creating a self fulfilling prophecy with the women you date. You want n=0, but you don't act like that's what you want.

Women ARE the self-fulfilling prophecy in this equation. They are weak, malleable, and impressionable. They conform to the social environment in which they live, and submit to the personalities of strong individuals in their lives.

You do not go in search of a quality woman. That is folly. Quality women are not found, they are MADE.

It's perfectly fine if a woman sleeps with you on the first date, provided that you can persuade her limbic system to continue to be submissive and devoted to you. You achieve this influence in her life by maintaining a high SMV/RMV through maintaining a strong youthful body, making money, demonstrating leadership qualities through social dominance, and so on.

[–]ihateyouguys 3 points4 points  (0 children)

It's the same dick at 45 mins as it is two days later.

[–]3savoryprunes 1 point2 points  (4 children)

Everyone has a hard time finding women of quality because women of quality are hard to find. If a significant percentage of women were capable of holding our interest long enough for us to consider relationships with them, then this sub would not exist.

Blame 3rd wave feminism. In fairness, it's ruined men as well. Hence, the birth of communities like this.

Edit: I should add a more specific response to this:

And then people get surprised when they get divorce raped. Well duh, what did you think was going to happen? You're encouraging that type of bullshit by making it clear that you don't give a fuck about her beyond sex, so why should she give a fuck about you beyond your paycheck?

In all seriousness, you should re-read the sidebar. The type of men who get divorce raped are absolutely not the type of men who only care about women for sex. Quite the opposite. Billy Beta pushovers get divorce raped. Men who "don't give a fuck about her beyond sex" don't get married.

Edit 2: I just remembered how easy it is to get pulled into the paradoxical thinking you've addressed. I was there for a brief spell. Just keep in mind that the Madonna-Whore complex that you seem to be addressing works both ways these days. The more patient you are with her "waiting," the more she sees you as just another orbiter who lacks that certain "masculine essence" she craves. You're on the fast track to betabux at best.

The "damned if you do - damned if you don't" problem applies to both sexes. Once again, this is why trp has come to be.

Edit 3: u/Invalidity has a good perspective on this topic. His response is below. I'm not sure why yours has so many more upvotes than his. I'm guessing there are many newbs here who are still struggling with the paradox.

[–]PanzerBatallion 5 points6 points  (3 children)

I'm not sure why yours has so many more upvotes than his. I'm guessing there are many newbs here who are still struggling with the paradox.

This is another problem with this sub. No discussion can exist, because there's a sidebar! The holy sidebar knows all! And if you disagree with someone's perspective, they must be noobs or cucks!

I have pretty much no interest in engaging in any conversation with the above.

[–]3savoryprunes 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Your original point about the "self fulfilling prophecy" is an understandable perspective and it is common among new subscribers. I believe it is oversimplified and misplaced. I'd say, at the very least, it is a perspective that is worth hashing out in detail with examples based on experience.

I have pretty much no interest in engaging in any conversation with the above.

This would be a more obvious indicator of why "no discussion can exist." My response was fairly long and detailed and in no way had the dismissive tone that you suggest. The dismissiveness is coming from you.

[–]PanzerBatallion 0 points1 point  (1 child)

The dismissiveness is coming from you.

And it will continue to with everyone who can't seem to make a point without comparing upvotes on posts you don't agree with to noobs.

[–]3savoryprunes 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Many people gave your reply upvotes with no further elaboration or questions. I saw Invalidity's reply to be much better, but pretty much ignored. That was troubling to me, and so I felt the need to identify that for further readers, not just you.

[–]Daimonon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Agreed. Gotta be careful with that. In some cases, the mentality seems too extreme and hits that paradox you mentioned.

What I personally believe is that every woman has that hidden desire.. That wish to find THE guy who gives her feelz and just let go. That's why everybody knows a girl who went abroad and slept around without a second thought but lied or downplayed the number when she got back.

Thing is, considering there are still tons of clueless guys out there who are available 24-07, have no spine to stand their ground and allow themselves to be jerked around.. When this kind of woman meets a redpiller, she couldn't be more intrigued and attracted to him. Sometimes, to the extent of some heavy padding later on or complete sex package. So, she's a slut for giving it on date one to the redpiller? Nah she just couldn't help herself.

[–]Endorsed ContributorInvalidity 7 points8 points  (0 children)

The modern day unicorn is a woman who is worth keeping even after she gives it up to you on the first date. If she is still worth keeping around after she has lost the respect (of being a woman who is more conservative), then she has definitive value.

The problem isn't that women are having sex with a new person so soon... the problem is that most of the women who do have sex early in a relationship, have a lot of character issues that weigh them down.

Of note, most women who will have a handful of character issues already, but much like men, how much of these flaws are evident depends entirely on their circumstances. If a woman has been been bombarded with praise most of her life and has not had to work very hard to earn respect or admiration, she will unleash her flaws to the fullest extent. On the other hand, if she has been humbled most of her life because she isn't attractive, she'll do her best to make sure less of her flaws show.

[–]1PrinceofSpades 24 points25 points  (11 children)

I sincerely just tried taking things slow with this one girl; I think she'd make an excellent mother and honestly I think her ex was her first and only. She almost died during an abortion complication that he forced her to get though despite her wanting to keep it, so things ended. She's definitely damaged emotionally from that, and not going to be good at sex from a lack of partners... It's just obvious from how introverted and socially awkwardly cute she is. She's making me wait... So I caved in and picked up a stripper and have been drowning in phenomenal slutty sex the last few days. Am I happier? Hard to say, but my dick sure as fuck is, and I'm brimming with confidence again and just nailed a promotional job interview yesterday as a result... Not to mention some old plate suddenly caught scent and started begging for it again, too with nudes etc.

Fucking sluts just simplifies things. Once your down the rabbit hole of truth, it's hard to play beta bux for a girl who wants you to be one when you've got a line of women behind her begging to call you master again.

[–]cariboo_j 11 points12 points  (5 children)

She almost died during an abortion complication that he forced her to get though despite her wanting to keep it, so things ended

Skepticism. Are you sure she wasn't just bullshitting you for sympathy points? Lol

[–]1PrinceofSpades 2 points3 points  (4 children)

Yes, I'm sure. I've been with more than enough women to have a near-flawless bullshit radar at this point, and the psychology background helps a tremendous deal. Believe me, I collected sufficient proof from her before allowing us to move along into the next topic of conversation.

Regardless, the way she brought it up and the timing earned her anything but; she had nothing gain. If she wanted sympathy she would have lied and made something up about her emotionally abusive father being worse than he actually was, but she kept it honest.

[–]KumonRoguing 6 points7 points  (2 children)

I was going to say something about captain save a hoe, but then the stripper came up. Atta boy. Monogamy is too much effort for not a lot of turn out.

[–]juliusstreicher 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I was going to say something about captain save a hoe, but then the stripper came up.

Hilarious. I'm not sure if this is modern-day Mark Twain material, or if it just straight up transcends literature!

[–]KumonRoguing 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I am taking English courses. Glad they are paying off.

[–]zue3 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Find a younger woman with a N count of 0 if you really want a relationship.

In my experience women never grow past the mental maturity they have in their teens. So why not go for younger women? They're more likely to be virgins and they have no prior relationship experience on how to manipulate men.

[–]Redasshole 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Easy answer: no girl is relationship material anymore and the only thing they have to offer is a quick pump and dump.

[–]TheReformist94 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Its their problem.if they wernt such dishonest sluts we wudnt have this problem. Before I swallowed the pill I actually had no problems courting a girl getting to know them and waiting for sex. Sluts have undercut the odd genuine girl using sex as a reasonable trump card.we are left with no choice but to pump and dump

[–]poochman 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I struggle with that too. I would like to think that some girls that give it up easy to me are only doing that because I'm alpha as fuck and they are so increbibly attracted to me that they can't hold out. However, less alpha/attractive guys have to wait x amount of dates. To me that's ideal. I want a girl that is so insanely attracted to me over other guys from the start that she can't help herself, not one who has to decide over several dates if she wants to fuck me or not.

Yet, there's no way to really know if that's the case and I'm special or if she's giving it up to everyone but I think maybe one can get a sense. Some girls just give off slut signals more than others. Sluts give off that vibe that they've been riding the CC many times (drunk party types, openly talk about past sexual experiences with other men, many male friends, no previous long term relationships, etc). My favorite plate right now fucked me the first night yet gives off virtually no signs of a CC rider and generally fucking loves me. I honestly don't think she's a slut and I'm considering her for a LTR. Use your best judgement.

[–]trancedj 11 points12 points  (1 child)

Dude. I learned this lesson the hard way. My first "serious" GF after my divorce was hot as fuck. I could make her dripping wet but she held off sex for weeks. By the time I figured out she had issues (sex was painful for her) it was too late. I was too invested (or so I thought) and hadn't quite swallowed the red pill so I tried like hell to fix her. After several months of failing I ended the relationship. She lost her bb and is still pissed! Fast forward to today and a 25 year old ballerina instructor just left my place. I'm 40. Life is good.

[–]TryDoingSomethingNew 1 point2 points  (0 children)

"25 year old ballerina instructor"

NOICE!

I need these real-life experience comments to keep me motivated, and keep going for the younger, and worthwhile, women.

[–]colmatterson 9 points10 points  (1 child)

Well, duh, dude, that's kind of obvious. Women with higher standards for who they have sex with obv are going to be less-experienced in the sack. Women like this are likely looking for long-term relationships.

[–]3savoryprunes 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Some dildo gave you a downvote so I countered it. You're right. This is a "duh" kind of obvious phenomenon. Sluts fuck good (usually). Ltr worthy candidates are typically a little lacking in the sack.

A reminder though, sluts can also be looking for an ltr (bb), especially when approaching the wall. But you knew that already.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Escalate relentlessly my friends, it will save you mucho tiempo.

[–]hereicum2trolltheday 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Third date is my cutoff. If it hasn't happened by then, it's not going to happen and I get the fuck out of there.

Of course to even get to a third date without sex, she has to be pretty damn impressive in some way.

[–]benuntu 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yep, same here. I can understand a woman who wants to wait a reasonable amount of time until they know I'm not a tool/murderer/etc.

[–]logicalthinker1 3 points4 points  (13 children)

It's mostly that they think you're fun to be with, but not attractive enough to fuck. You're the fun boy that's nice and courteous, but you don't make me wet.

[–]TNNRR 6 points7 points  (12 children)

I've been that guy a few times. I never really cared. If I was goofing off with HB9s and HB10s and having fun, I never minded that they didn't want to fuck.

I always thought they we're good pre-section bias girls, and fun to be around, more or less.

I was never an orbiter though.

If a girl wants to fuck you, she'll find a way. If she doesn't, then forget about fucking her, have fun kicking it with them if you can, next if you must.

Either way it: 1. helps you take the pussy of the pedestal 2. Offers you pre-selection if you don't come off as an orbiter 3. Can offer you an enjoyable relationship with another human being.

[–]mechanizedmischief 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Wait, so if she's not good in bed, that means she doesn't have a lot of experience and is more pure, doesn't it? I thought women who were good in bed were sluts.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Nah, it just means they're lazy. I've been with only 10 chicks, But the 2nd chick I fucked, I took her virginity. She was a great fuck. I love sluts tho, they're fun.

[–]benuntu 1 point2 points  (0 children)

My ex was great in bed and had only been with one person before me (we were 19 at the time). I think it has more to do with how comfortable someone is with their sexuality and vulnerability, rather than the number of people they slept with.

[–]CoNoCh0 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I find this advice only partially true. Yes that may be the case for some but I can easily point out how it's been the exact opposite for me in a number of cases. I've always told my girl friends that if they wait a couple of dates they will filter out the majority of men that just want to get laid and not actually interested in them. I agree that if they are not putting out they should at some point, and I have had situations where I dropped out because of the wait. If you are really interested the it shouldn't matter. You can always still talk to other women because if you are not at least messing around then it's not THAT serious. You could even use that as a tactic to make a women play the sex card sooner rather than later. If you are playing the game right and you are good at pleasuring a women them you have ways to nudge the relationship in a certain direction anyways. I'd definitely have enough to pay for lunch right now if I could point out exactly how many times a girl "wasn't like that..." And I told them I didn't want to have sex and push them over the edge to where they just couldn't help themselves to say no anymore.

[–]tb87670 215 points216 points  (57 children)

A few times women bought up how they don't want to ruin what we have by having sex too early. I simply ask them if they gave it up faster for other guys in the past. Locks them up, jaws drop etc. and the hamster kicks into drive. Each one of them go on how I'm the best this and good looking and great at that, romantic (not even trying, don't get it) so after the first question and first salvo from the hamster fired my way I bring up how if I'm the best she's had yet why make me wait longer than the guys that were worse? Hamster shifts from drive into overdrive and off she goes. This has happened a few times now and I simply walk away while she goes nuclear. These bitches hate it when someone won't pay a higher price for an obviously devalued perishable commodity.

[–][deleted] 93 points94 points  (20 children)

Youre probably not romantic, just high smv. When men are high smv, women add on traits they percieve to make you seem even better, so they dont feel bad for throwing the pussy at you. Guarantee you if we got a socially awkward solemn channing tatum, chicks would say hes hilarious.

[–][deleted] 70 points71 points  (5 children)

The amount of effort you have to put in to be considered romantic is inversely proportional to your SMV. A moderate SMV guy has to plan an elaborate Valentine's day event to get the same "romantic" credit that a very high SMV guy gets by just spending any amount of time with her at all.

[–]antedaeguemon 36 points37 points  (2 children)

The amount of effort you have to put in to be considered romantic is inversely proportional to your SMV.

This right here. I wish I knew it a few years ago.

[–][deleted] 17 points18 points  (1 child)

Also worth noting that since your SMV can be negative (creepy), you get the same thing in reverse too. A very romantic act done with a low enough SMV will be incredibly creepy.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

lol this is so fucking true. A LOT of people do not understand this and it's sad

[–]Physio_Tool 22 points23 points  (13 children)

One of my girlfriends told me if she is on a date with a guy she doesnt like she'll fick them. If she ends up liking the guy she'll make him wait. How fucked is that

[–][deleted] 23 points24 points  (4 children)

Woman logic. One is the lover short term relationship material, one is the boyfriend LTR material. Be the lover, not the boyfriend. Too much comfort and you get boyfriend zoned.

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

[removed]

    [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Haha right? Commitment = No Go. It's the most annoying shit when girls try to make you their boyfriend.

    [–]UnwelcomedJurist 3 points4 points  (1 child)

    Relevant to this: be the skittles man pumping and dumping brides-to-be, while their "cuck"sbands pay 15k for some fucking wedding roses

    [–]Casanova-Quinn 13 points14 points  (6 children)

    The logic in this scenario is actually simple. If a girl finds a suitable boyfriend, she doesn't want to give him the impression she's a slut by having sex too soon. If she does, she risks getting pumped and dumped because he only sees her as a slut.

    [–]3savoryprunes 1 point2 points  (5 children)

    Another path of logic would be to simply make ALL guys wait and avoid this problem.

    [–]Casanova-Quinn 2 points3 points  (4 children)

    True, but a woman's nature is "feels over reals". If Mr. Alpha gives her the tingles, she'll take a risk and worry about the consequences later.

    [–]3savoryprunes 1 point2 points  (3 children)

    ...and so, as usual, we come back to the true culprit which is 3rd wave feminism. "Follow your tingles" is encouraged and we are all worse off in the end.

    [–]LyricBaritone 2 points3 points  (2 children)

    Not if you're the guy giving the tingles. Do that for enough women and this system is fucking great.

    [–]3savoryprunes 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    Touche. I was speaking of society as a whole but I'm guessing you knew that. Either way - touche.

    [–]LyricBaritone 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    As a selfish, godless bastard, I'm of the camp that just tries to enjoy the decline. Mankind was never going to last forever, especially with the way we're burning the candle at both ends.

    [–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (1 child)

    Women get hot with high SMV guys or they "settle" with lower SMV guys.

    Guess what ? it's only lower SMV that get that extra wait time or extra shit tests.

    If you are good looking, you get a pussy pass.

    Now if a woman doesn't really want you but only wants access to your ressources, what is she of any use to you ?

    [–]TheDonald2k16 8 points9 points  (0 children)

    She will always rationalize a way to have sex with a high SMV man as soon as she possibly can.

    The only time I will give a woman credit for "holding out" is if she is a virgin and wants to keep it that way until the right time she decides. Otherwise, "I am not ready" is codespeak for "your SMV isn't high enough".

    [–]GetrichonIMP 41 points42 points  (8 children)

    Hilarious. I've actually used this paradigm to get laid. I've told women on the first date that if we don't have sex I don't consider them a potential serious suitor because I've been with so many dates who like to waste my time (dread game). I tell them this after we've built rapport and she understands that my value is high in multiple ways. Then I amplify things sexually and she has a choice. I usually don't see women after this but it's worked 100% of the time lmfao

    [–]Local_Crew 24 points25 points  (1 child)

    I used to do something like this. But I had a manwhore rep to fall back on. Straight up tell women sex is a high priority. Tell them if we click, we're Fucking. That I didn't have interest in prudish women.

    Insane what "types" of women you can get to buck on the first date. Even the snobby snowflakes.

    [–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (0 children)

    They're all relatively the same.

    [–]2insickness 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    Telling a woman you've been on a lot of dates with women who waste your time is not dread game. It's the opposite. It is a demonstration of low SMV that women treat you that way.

    [–]GetrichonIMP 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Just because someone has low SMV in the past does not mean that's the case in the present. This strategy has worked 100% of the time with me. If you have high enough SMV like you say it works. If you don't then back to the drawing buddy boyo!

    [–]ben0wn4g3 0 points1 point  (3 children)

    I've just nexted girls who didn't put out. That drives the hamster crazy.

    [–]GetrichonIMP 5 points6 points  (2 children)

    What I'm saying is make them make a choice. How do you even know that their "hamster" is going crazy when you didn't even get laid to begin with? Have sex with them and ignore them... well that may just be to a different story ; )

    [–]TheDonald2k16 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    Great way to pass that shit test.

    [–]rp_newdawn 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    This is key. I used something similar recently and got laid two hours later. The interesting point is how you are essentially re-wiring them into ignoring their long term value (by appearing less slutty and worthy of commitment) in favor of their short term value (by sleeping with you) if they want to keep you around. It's actually perfect manipulative powertalk

    [–]J_AsapGem 7 points8 points  (2 children)

    dude this blew my mind, awesome questions will definitely use these.

    [–]colmatterson 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    Is it really surprising that she starts going into how you're better looking, and more romantic, and so on than guys from her past? Think about how insecure it makes you sound by immediately responding like that, automatically comparing yourself to her ex's.

    Shit, man, she's probably so locked up and shocked from getting such a whiny response from a guy she thought was more alpha than that, had more confidence.

    [–]tb87670 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    It makes her assess the fallacy of her female 'logic'. Guys she wasn't as attracted to she gave it out easy yet a guy she likes a lot she holds out on, it doesn't make sense. Point it out and they end up spinning tires trying to come up with how it should make sense and by then they start saying silly stuff no sane person would agree with. When it gets to that point I have better things to do and better women to fuck so I leave. Might be a tad bit of blackknighting there but this is a really good filter for timewasters who just want to keep going on dates and taking up your time without giving you what you want.

    [–]2insickness 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    I get your point by why argue with a woman who says she doesn't want to have sex with you? You can't convince a woman to be attracted to you.

    [–]tb87670 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Who said I was arguing? Just point out the absurdity of their 'logic' (or lack thereof) and walk. You never argue, that is them dragging you down to their level. Many women are timewasters and after the 2nd or 3rd date if they are not putting out they never will even if you are married to them later on. They are merely using you to feel socially validated that they have a man under their thumb without them to put forth any effort or in laymans terms they can brag they have a man-slave without fucking you first. Women do brag about this while they go off and fuck the guy they actually want to have sex with, I've heard it many times as that guy who gets the sex.

    [–]TheDonald2k16 51 points52 points  (11 children)

    It's all about the type of sex you get.

    If you are getting starfish sex where she just kind of lays there and doesn't really engage in it all and waits for you to finish, that's not real sex, that's either pity sex, or duty sex, or whatever you want to call it. And it's a shame that there are so many men out there who think that is real sex and are satisfied with it just because she did the bare minimum by spreading her legs.

    If she has no passion, if she isn't engaged, if she doesn't appear to be enjoying the hell out of it, it's the type of sex women will give to men they don't love. If she loves you, she will smother you with that love during sex via passion and engagement.

    [–]Senior Contributordr_warlock 30 points31 points  (3 children)

    Pre-trp, on one occasion, I had duty-sex. It was awful. She had the sahara snatch, laying back like a starfish and looked uncomfortable like she just wanted it over with. It was so sad and felt so pathetic that I just ended it. Couldnt finish even if I wanted to because it was a such a libido kill.

    Never again.

    I can't believe men do that for years (especially marriage) and actually finish the deed. You're a fucking loser if go through with that. No self-respect.

    [–]TheDonald2k16 16 points17 points  (0 children)

    There are beta men out there who think that is what sex is, sadly.

    That all there is to it is the woman spreading her legs and lying there motionless as he gets to insert his dick inside her dry vagina and thrust. That the fact that she did the bare minimum and spread her legs for him and allowed him to penetrate, means she wants him and is in love with him and has passion for him.

    "Hey, I still had sex!" they will say.

    Yeah, eating off the Dollar Menu at Mcdonalds is still food in the technical sense, but that doesn't mean it compares well with a steak dinner at a 5 star restaurant.

    [–]TNNRR 5 points6 points  (1 child)

    I've had the same experience and feel the same way about it now.

    I stopped the encounter and said, "Is this what you want?" and she said, "no, but I was afraid you'd be mad. My ex-boyfriend used to get mad".

    I pulled out and washed off. It was actually pretty sad. I told her to chill and we watched a movie. We ended up in an LTR and the starfish never came back.

    Its weird - people will say that TRP and "Alphas" are sexist - but I've never seen a man fuck a woman's head up as much as a malicious Beta can. Those guys are your wife beaters and child abusers.

    [–]psycho-logical 18 points19 points  (0 children)

    Ex-slut sounds like male hamster in action.

    Calling someone an ex-slut is like calling someone an ex-murderer

    [–]trp_principiante 5 points6 points  (4 children)

    Starfish sex is enough for me to never see her again. This simply means that she doesn't look at sex as something where she has to give. Such girls don't even think about pleasing others or their experiences.

    I have discovered that too many beautiful girls think their body in the bedroom is enough to make you happy (it does happen to non-good looking as well). If they ask me why I don't want to see them anymore I'm trying to be honest and they are always surprised. The way they react to this is always hilarious and you can literally see their hamster spinning. And yes, if she keeps you waiting - the sex is usually bad.

    [–]TNNRR 3 points4 points  (2 children)

    I think all men and women have to LEARN how to be good sex partners.

    I also think that the most attractive men and women are the slowest to learn it because they don't have to. Everyone wants to fuck them, even if its the first time they've ever seen them.

    Some starfish girls are just inexperienced or too hot for their own good. I'd give a woman who wasn't particularly giving a second and third chance, with some verbal guidance, and if it doesn't get better. NEXT.

    It depends a lot on age and experience.

    [–]chrisElRey123 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    I agree you have to learn to be a good sex partner. That said, the starting point for a lot of people varies - as in how good they are the first few times they have sex. And my guess is that where you start depends upon how much you enjoy giving pleasure and/or getting passionate.

    There are certain skills that have to be learned in bed. But also sometimes it is chemistry, it is how passionate somebody is in general, it is how comfortable they are with their body/sexuality. There are a lot of factors.

    Personally, the best sex I've had has been with the most beautiful girls I've been with. That said, it's not always the case. I've had other girls who are a 5 or 6 and are insane in bed.

    I've come to the conclusion that there are so many determining factors that it's impossible almost to size somebody up accurately beforehand.

    [–]Physio_Tool 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Yea its terrible. Like the girls for some reason arent even insecure about their bedroom abilities when they suck fucking balls in bed but put no effort in and dont give a flying fuck how shitty they are. I had a plate the first two times we were in bed pretend to be so worn out she couldnt ride me or pretend she didnt hear me. Well after second time I just did standard trp bedroom shit, roll over, start looking up nfl scores on my phone while ignoring her. She got the point but after that every time she was on top was a begrudging moment for her. What kind of girl does not take pride in the bedoom?!?

    [–]ECoast_Man 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    This is a good point, but this makes me think of a cautionary note -

    Pretty much all the men I know that got oneitis and/or got completely fucked over by a girl was due to her fucking his brains out. Almost always by mentally fucked up women who will go to A2M if it is done to them, but are fit for straight jackets outside of bed.

    While the quality of sex is important, like a drug this can fuck with good men's heads...

    [–]TRP VanguardHumanSockPuppet 40 points41 points  (2 children)

    You must remember one very important principle that underscores a woman's decisions:

    A woman's feelings dictate both her actions and her rationalization for those actions.

    In point of fact, women actually do love their beta providers - when provision and security are what her feelings demand. Beta Bux cares for her and makes her feel loved, and the alpha she was fucking last week becomes the man who never truly loved her.

    And later, when she is ovulating, and her feelings demand that a dominant man squirt a baby into her, she fucks Chad and rationalizes that she never truly loved Beta Bux. Chad is the man she loves right now - because why else would she fuck him if she didn't love him?

    Women do not do things for reasons. They do things for feelings, and the "reasons" function as glue to keep the popsicle-stick narrative together when its time for show-and-tell later.

    [–][deleted] 16 points17 points  (0 children)

    Your example above describes a situation in my life perfectly and it may be instructive to the community if I share.

    I have a married plate who abruptly dumps me every six months or so. I always go no contact or give a cheeky response like "sure, we had fun, hit me up if you change your mind". Zero fucks given.

    She always comes back in approximately 4 to 6 weeks.

    One menstrual cylce. No way she ovulates with that pussyboy provider husband two months in a row.

    [–][deleted]  (4 children)

    [deleted]

    [–]sourdieselfuel 11 points12 points  (0 children)

    [–][deleted]  (2 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]DoubleA12 4 points5 points  (0 children)

      Yes. One of the first cartoon shows I've seen to perfectly balance funny adventures with some of the harsh realities and mysteries of life.

      [–]faded_jester 13 points14 points  (5 children)

      In my BP past one thing that absolutely infuriated me was how I was usually the guy who had to wait for sex....all those other guys who were "assholes, losers, and players"?....well she fucked them right away but I was "special".

      Man what I wouldn't give to be able to have a 10 minute talk to my teenage self.

      [–]colmatterson 0 points1 point  (4 children)

      I think I will ask this in asktrp soon, but for now, how long do you think is "too long" to wait for sex? Not with a girl from the club, because obviously that's supposed to happen in the same night, but with a girl that a guy meets and is genuinely interested in?

      [–]faded_jester 5 points6 points  (1 child)

      It's really a personal choice that only you can decide.

      If a girl is worth waiting for then she needs to demonstrate why she is worth more of your time. If she can't (or gets offended by the idea) then odds are she doesn't have much to offer except her pussy and girls like that expect payment in full before she lets you have sex. (unless Chad shows up...then things just "happen")

      Make your intentions clear and stick to them. Making special exceptions leads to oneitis and unicorn thinking.

      Experience is almost always the best teacher and the more girls you date, the easier it is to tell which are worth your time and which you can dismiss or plate. Hope that helps and you'll likely get a better and more detailed answer in asktrp.

      [–]colmatterson 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Oh! Lol, no, I'm very happy in a five year long-term relationship. If I was looking for personal advice, though, you gave an eloquent, well-thought response. Actually, I really was asking for knowledge.

      edit: I especially like that you say,

      If a girl is worth waiting for then she needs to demonstrate why she is worth more of your time.

      Give credit where credit is due. Some women are worth waiting for. If there's one thing I disagree with more than anything else on RP, it's the rigid application of "AWALT" to fucking everything that any woman has done ever.

      [–]juliusstreicher 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      This may be above me, but, I think that this is where the 3-date rule comes in.

      If she's fucked others before the 3rd date, and makes you wait longer, that is an indication that she wanted to fuck them more than she wants to fuck you. This is bad. For you, that is. It means that she can control herself around you, but, not around others, which makes for bad wife/LTR material.

      If she holds off longer than that with everybody, it could be a sign that she is (this is where my uncertainty comes in) not interested in sex? Just looking for a bb? Not compatible with your sexual programming? Others have pointed out that the ones who make you wait aren't that good.

      Not an easy course to navigate, if you don't have your own values defined.

      [–][deleted]  (32 children)

      [deleted]

      [–]idgaf- 29 points30 points  (2 children)

      Six dates is a lot IMO and she's just enjoying the validation from you pursuing her honestly.

      The key is not to use dates & time spent as if depositing some kind of currency in an account, that later use to bid for sex. If so she picks up on that and you lose value for each date where you don't escalate or pressure her.

      You escalate and go for sex as early as logistically possible. Boldly face rejection each time. Laugh it off each time, it's just a silly game.

      she kept moving my hands off

      That's fine, it's just token resistance. You pause for a bit, and keep going, get a little further each time. She can keep doing this for like an hour really, it's your persistence that turns her on. Only if she gets up and leaves do you stop. Which, at that point, you want her to leave anyway.

      [–]forcevacum 7 points8 points  (0 children)

      ended up breaking it off after that.

      I hope you ended it in a red pill way, soft dread into nexting, this gives her a chance to throw pussy at you on the way out. There's no point in putting in so much work and then ending it in a nuclear fashion.

      [–]blue_27 9 points10 points  (22 children)

      3 date rule. There can be a valid excuse. Even two. But a third strike sits the batter. Actually, in this case ... three strikes means she just got cut from the roster.

      [–]ben0wn4g3 3 points4 points  (21 children)

      The important part is.. Are they making you wait or.. Everyone?

      [–]blue_27 4 points5 points  (20 children)

      I ... couldn't care less. I don't think about the other dudes she's fucked, just like she doesn't want to think about the legion of chicks that I've been through. My rules are for me. She can do whatever the fuck she wants with other guys. She only gets three at-bats with me.

      [–]ben0wn4g3 0 points1 point  (18 children)

      OK well you're only going to ever hook up with sluts.

      [–]blue_27 2 points3 points  (14 children)

      I've got two concepts that are probably going to blow your mind:

      1) That's the fucking point.

      2) They are ALL sluts. Yes, this includes your wife and/or girlfriend, your little sister, all of your cousins, and your mother.

      [–]ben0wn4g3 0 points1 point  (13 children)

      Even the ones who wont fuck you right?

      [–]blue_27 0 points1 point  (12 children)

      I guess we should back up and define what you mean by 'slut'.

      [–]ben0wn4g3 0 points1 point  (11 children)

      Well I'd say that if you are looking for a LTR then you want to reduce the odds as much as possible that you are with a 'slut', so someone who is going to cheat on you essentially. A girl who doesn't put out is a good option, however it is essential to know if they are just doing that to you to trap you... have they ever had a ONS before?

      [–]blue_27 0 points1 point  (10 children)

      To be clear, are you saying that a 'slut' is defined as "someone who is going to cheat on [you] essentially"? And if so, I'm quite certain you'd be surprised at the number of wives that I know who cheat.

      A girl who doesn't put out is a good option

      A good option for what? Why would I want a girl who doesn't put out? I don't drink decaf coffee, and I don't understand non-alcoholic beer. A chick that doesn't put out is in the same non-functional category.

      however it is essential to know if they are just doing that to you to trap you

      Still not sure what you are referring to, but it doesn't matter. The answer is 'yes', she is trying to trap you.

      have they ever had a ONS before?

      Yes. More than you will ever know about. Be blissfully ignorant on this one, Grasshopper.

      [–]juliusstreicher 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      And, this is a bad thing?

      [–]ELLEN_POO 10 points11 points  (1 child)

      If you are 6 dates in, you are already BB. (beta bucks)

      [–]1Jaereth 7 points8 points  (0 children)

      I agree. I don't care if the girl is a virgin. We are going all the way on date 3 or there will be no date 4.

      Nothing against girls that don't want to have sex, more power to them. They are just not the girls for me, and why would I waste time dating someone who's views on sex don't align with my own?

      [–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

      Latinas are like that from my experience. They prefer to be the instigators of sex

      [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Sometimes the answer if she takes something is to take something back yourself. If she's getting my attention and validation and suddenly pulls a 180 against the clear signals and seems to mean it then it's time to back off the attention and validation in a similar fashion.

      If she asks wtf because she's used to being pursued "I love playing games as much as the next guy but I don't play with monopoly money."

      [–]bornredd 8 points9 points  (3 children)

      Read The Sun Also Rises by Hemingway. It explores this concept in depth.

      [–]TNNRR 4 points5 points  (2 children)

      Hell yes it does. She's in love with him - but his dick is gone, so Brett fucks every rich man left and right.

      Hemingway is one of the most RP writers to ever have put a pen to paper.

      [–]bornredd 2 points3 points  (1 child)

      Hemingway is a fucking genius. His first short story, Up In Michigan should be a fucking RP creed. Shit, even The Short Happy Life of Francis Macomber is.

      [–]Vermouth1991 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      And of course, pro-feminist media such as "10 Things I Hate About You" have their mouthpieces abuse Hemingway as nothing but some misogynist monster of the patriarchy.

      [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

      This brings to mind the old high school rejection line where girls basically inform of this way of thinking.

      "I love you, but I'm not in love with you."

      That language was always horrible. A mixed lie that leaves hope and confusion in is wake, but makes perfect sense to them. But that difference from love to being IN love is I think the physical headrush of chemicals which is induced by being the one they chose for mating and who is giving it to them.

      The language keeps the betas in orbit, hoping that LOVE is close enough to IN LOVE to be something that can be converted. It can't unless that beta can produce that rush of chemicals, which he probably cannot.

      By using this language though he's kept close as a backup plan and maybe future provider. She can lie to herself and lie to him that she's now IN love but she will always remember the time that she REALLY WAS IN LOVE (with Chad). And that's the feeling that is always going to be missing with her beta provider whom she does love (like a cute pet armadillo) and makes her dump her marriage as soon as another Chad comes by again and suddenly she feels alive again, young again, IN LOVE again.

      During her divorce she may even tell her beta provider, I still love you, but it's just not the same.

      Men just need to hear these words and understand that IN LOVE means LOVE which means the full blown chemical euphoria meant to produce offspring and bind to her partner and that's what LOVE means to us generally. While LOVE without IN just means I ENJOY YOUR COMPANY AND DON'T MIND IF YOU PICK UP THE TAB MOST OF THE TIME BECAUSE YOU MAKE MORE MONEY THAN ME BUT IF YOU GIVE ME SOMETHING EXPENSIVE I WILL MAKE A FUSS UNTIL YOU PROVIDE ME WITH ENOUGH BETA LOGIC THAT GIVES PLAUSIBLE DENIABILITY TO ME TO ACCEPT THIS KIND OF THING FROM A FRIEND.

      The best of people don't accept inappropriate gifts no matter how nice.

      [–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (2 children)

      You may want to check out the MTV show 'Catfished'. Lots of women on there proclaiming love to men they've never even met.

      [–]Aintlisterine 7 points8 points  (1 child)

      The only thing women understand less than themselves is a man they've never met in person.

      [–]Grandpappi 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Exactly. It is a lot like the deferred sex until marriage situation, they think as soon as they meet the guy they will get everything they want so they anticipate that fateful day for years.

      But when they finally get together reality sets in and like most things in life, it doesn't work out as planned.

      [–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 5 points6 points  (0 children)

      Marriage was designed ... the woman would give a man sex ...the man would commit to the woman for the duration of her life... Could you call this love?

      If this was the natural state of affairs, there would be no need for the marriage contract itself.

      [–]pm_me_yur_pantiez 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      My wife and I are about to test this theory. She put on 30 lbs and cut her hair short.

      She looks like a lesbian trucker.

      [–]sarasotaelite 5 points6 points  (2 children)

      My two cents. If you have sex more than twice with a woman she probably loves you. No matter hoe casual she wants to play it. Ps:not gonna change my typo

      [–]wont_tell_i_refuse_ 4 points5 points  (1 child)

      This is complete bullshit but I upvoted you because I like your attitude

      [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Probably true for him. lol

      [–]menial_optimist 7 points8 points  (6 children)

      I have a friend who dated an ex-slut for 1-2 years who found jesus shortly before they got together. Despite hearing stories of her being a gigantic slut for years before, fucking different dudes a the same party in one night etc.

      For the duration of her dating she became "Born-again" and was "saving herself for marriage" to have sex. My friend went 1-2 years with no sex.

      There were half a dozen times where she would get drunk and offer herself to him sexually. I believe he declined her advances.

      After 1-2 years my friend caved and proposed. They marriaged less than a year ago, and now that they're having sex she refused to go on BC and he was spotty with his condom usage.

      She's now pregnant as of a few weeks ago.

      How does this story fit into OPs post? Sometimes the over-generalizing just doesn't fit into reality.

      [–][deleted] 20 points21 points  (0 children)

      Christ, your friend is a pussy.

      [–]stawek 8 points9 points  (0 children)

      I'd bet dollars against peanuts that she slept with multiple men in those 2 years.

      [–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

      It 100% validates it.

      When her mind was occupied (drunk) what did she do?

      Offer to fuck him.

      It should have been a red flag for him and the BC refusal and pregnancy was absolutely predictable.

      When she couldn't keep her mind on the strategy to extract the desired commitment she full on offered to fuck him. This is the smoking gun that it was a game on her end. A set of rules to adopt to a specific end. And it worked.

      Oh, and your premise implies that she loved him during the 2 years he beta'd out and that is not at all clear from your story.

      [–]3savoryprunes 4 points5 points  (0 children)

      Tell him to get a paternity test.

      [–]CDBaller 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Cases like this are the exception to the rule.

      [–]trumpisafaggybeta 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      Tingles are all that matters in any case that a woman's affection is being sought. If she doesn't have the tingles, and society is feminized (like most of the west is), you're in for a bad time as a male. In RP societies this didn't/doesn't matter as much, as women either take the boot or the marriage that they don't like.

      [–]MardGeer 5 points6 points  (15 children)

      That's not true, your mom loves you I think

      [–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor 10 points11 points  (8 children)

      "Love" is grossly overused.

      Man love women. Women love children. Children love puppies. Puppies love men. This is the circle of rational love. What we call love from women is a chemical reaction. I have to agree with the OP. Without the brain chemistry, there is nothing from a woman.

      There is a reason why women use the word "chemistry" when they talk about compatibility with men. It really is just that.

      [–]wont_tell_i_refuse_ 5 points6 points  (2 children)

      I for one am happy that we added "Puppies love men" to the end.

      [–]suloco 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Yeah but that's not true. Puppies are gender-correct. /s

      [–]suloco 0 points1 point  (3 children)

      You think mother's love for her child is a rational one? Dude that is the most hard-wired instinctual drive there is. Instincts are not rational in any kind of way.

      'Love' isn't grossly overused. It's grossly mislabelled.

      You need to have some consistency. Either all love is chemical-based and some bonds are stronger than others or none is and it's all magic. Don't pretend that men don't love women on chemical base. You need some pretty strong chemicals to make a man sacrifice his life for another human being.

      [–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor 0 points1 point  (2 children)

      "I must save my baby."

      Yeah, pretty rational. Whatever emotions go with it are whatever emotions that go with it.

      "I like how Chad's jaw looks in the moonlight while he's tearing up my pussy."

      Wot?

      You need some pretty strong chemicals to make a man sacrifice his life for another human being.

      Duty and honor are socialized. Sacrifice is made for the team. I have never felt a compulsion to do it. It just factored into my place in society, whereby I too enjoyed certain benefits. This is why I wouldn't lift a finger to save a woman now if my ass was on the line. Given the deconstruction of our blue pill world, I am no longer part of their team.

      [–]suloco 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      "I must save my baby."

      Yeah, pretty rational. Whatever emotions go with it are whatever emotions that go with it.

      There's no argument in that statement. What makes it rational? You just labelled it as such without any argument. There is no rational love. That's a contradiction.

      Duty and honor are socialized.

      Irrelevant. Duty and honor are abstract concepts. What makes a man fight for a woman or pushes him to protect her is 90% biology/brain chemistry. The tribe puts women first because they are the limiting factor in reproduction, hence valuable. Men are expendable. We're hardwired like that by nature. Despite your proclamations of self-conditioned apathy towards a woman in danger, you, me and everyone else is biologically programmed to react more intensely to violence imposed on a woman than to the same violence imposed on a man.

      [–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      You just labelled it as such without any argument.

      I'm pretty sure most reasonable people would see that as an example of how a mother expresses her love for her child.

      Duty and honor are abstract concepts.

      "We will not lie, steal, or cheat, nor tolerate among us anyone who does."

      Seems pretty objective to me.

      [–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

      Shes the only woman who will ever love you.

      [–]Ninja_Wizard_69 5 points6 points  (1 child)

      That's a different, instinctual kind of love.

      [–]MardGeer 6 points7 points  (0 children)

      If I may, that's the only kind of love, everything else is subcategory of it with none of the authenticity. Just as boobs are fake asses, if you were to have one thing, choose the real deal. Also don't fuck your mom.

      [–]Nicolay77 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      Mom storges son.

      Man eros woman.

      Man philias man.

      Man agapes his greatparents.

      The Greek had really useful words for different feelings.

      But the bluepill runs deep, and replaces these different concepts with a single word to confuse the beta.

      [–]MardGeer 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Ah the Greek, they really do have all the answers

      [–]MeatCurtainRod 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      but it's generally impossible to find a woman who is in love with a man she's never slept with.

      That isn't even remotely true. Look at all the tween moms who go ape-shit over the two main twilight actors. That lust obsessed rapey love is just as love infused as regular love. There is a very real thing about stacker level crushes and all that shit for the sake of 'love'. The correct statement is as follows:

      a woman will sleep with you without being in love with you, but it's generally impossible to find a woman who is able to see herself loving you and not have sex with you.

      Now keep in mind that "seeing herself loving you" is really about her seeing you as an alpha having her under your wing.

      [–]thor_away92 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Not gonna lie this isn't even a "redpill" truth.

      ...no fucking shit people aren't "in love" with people they aren't fucking...

      If a man falls in love with a woman without sleeping with her redpill or not. That man is a dipshit.

      [–]VanityKings 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      The solution would be pretty simple if beta men did not fuck up the sexual marketplace; stop chasing pussy, it's extremely overrated and essentially short-term gratification in comparison to actual accomplishments.
      Focus instead on working on your financial,mental, and physical well-being and you will likely get pussy as a side effect of living a kick-ass and fulfilled lifestyle.

      [–]plenkton 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      "Love" is different for men than it is for women.
      Men love women for their ability to conceive/raise the man's offspring.
      Women love men for their ability to proffer resources.

      Thus while love has men take care of women (so that she can raise his child), women's love is completely selfish- she will only love a man so long as he provides her resources.

      Regarding this post, when a woman is not fucking a certain man, she knows that he has no reason to love her- as she will not have his child.

      [–]Wintamint 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      I strongly disagree with you. Sex and love are separate things. Almost Completely separate psychological processes. You can have either without the other, and it doesn't matter if you are a man or woman. I think you're making a logical error by trying to make a post hoc generalization based on one experience. Bummer about your friend.

      [–]fingerthemoon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      One of the pillars of this deception is the belief that a woman's time is worth the same as a man's. This is patently false. Your commitment is far more important and precious than you can imagine.

      I would actually argue that a woman's time (sex) is more valuable than a man's, that is, when she is young and fertile. Her child bearing years and attractiveness are much more limited and depreciates rapidly. She only has a limited amount of eggs and reproductive chance, whereas as man has nearly unlimited sperm and twice the years for reproductive success. Society and women in general understand this innately if not consciously.

      A man's commitment is much less valuable today than it was naturally intended to be because women don't need men for security and provision when the state will supply these for her. This is one of the imbalances of modern society.

      Many women have been fooled by feminism and don't value their sex as much as they ought too. Because they are told they can have it all, a carrier, casual sex with many men and wait until they're 40 to secure a husband and have children. Not fully being aware of their rapid decline in value and chances. Although most are aware to an extent, they still feel they have plenty of time and are unaware of the consequences.

      A man's value is largely subjective. The point here is that you don't offer commitment when there's nothing to be gained from it. The game is rigged against you. And to value yourself almost to the point of irrationality because this will give you more of what you want and make your life happier.

      [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      How does this work when the man is the gatekeeper of sex? If you make your girl beg for it (or better yet, only use it as a reward for good behaviours) what value is placed on your time and commitment?

      [–]warm20 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      so technically.. i messed up by abstaining myself from her and the other guys got her before i could.. and i am no longer in the formula of love:(.. what a cruel world

      i've rejected sex when we had the chance.. i'm just not sure what to think now about morality

      [–]Pangie85 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Is this really how people think? I have to say, I pretty much instantly fall in love with anyone that I have had good sex with so...you're right about that. But I am pretty committed once that happens. If you're comfortable getting naked with me and I'm comfortable getting naked with you, I'm content. I don't play a lot of games because it's pretty safe to say I'd lose. So what is the point of all this? Is it the sex itself or the games? I don't know how people have the energy for this.

      [–]killcat 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      There's good evidence "love" is biochemical, a cascade of feel good chemicals designed to make the world a rosey wonderful place and encourage breeding. So woman can be in "love" with someone without fucking them, if they perceive them as being "the right one", but it's also really common in the afterglow, all that Oxytocin. I've had a woman who was using me as a sex toy because her boyfriend was a good prospect, but not attractive physically, get all lovey because I could get her off and he couldn't.

      [–]1InscrutablePUA 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      That means that buying into the paradigm that she needs to love you first is a fool's endeavour.

      Indeed! Especially true in the West. The original PUA gurus like Ross, Mystery, Gambler, and Entropy (Mark Manson) were the first in the post-2000 era to come out and say this. It was definitely a major stumbling block in my life until I realized that you don't need to be friends with a girl, or have long conversations with a girl, or even need a girl to be in love with you before pounding her ass.

      I wonder sometimes if the world is changing too fast for the previous generation to offer the best advice to young people. My dad has always given me great career and life advice but I doubt he, or anyone of his generation understands how slutty modern American girls are.

      [–]rdesktop7 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Ehh, not sure I agree. If your smv value is high enough, say, you are a celebrity, you could get love from plenty of women that are not having sex with you.

      [–]Sworn_to_Ganondorf 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      damn that title is a pretty solid tldr

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