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MetaOur Appeal of the Quarantine to the Reddit Admin (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by Modredpillschool - announcement

As I mentioned, we are making the appeal process completely open because we believe there wouldn't be fair play if it was behind closed doors. Below is our appeal to the admin:


First, I would like to tell you that we’ve posted this entire appeal publicly and plan to post your replies as well. We strongly believe this system you have set up to be a kangaroo court and have evidence to support this notion. If you want to prove to us that you are going to treat this appeals process fairly then we welcome your responses to the contrary.

In your message to us regarding our quarantine, you offer an appeals process:

In this case the quarantine was applied for the high degree of misogyny present in this subreddit. To be removed from quarantine, you may present an appeal here. The appeal should include a detailed accounting of changes to community moderation practices. (Appropriate changes may vary from community to community and could include techniques such as adding more moderators, replacing certain moderators, creating new rules, employing more aggressive auto-moderation tools, adjusting community styling, etc.) The appeal should also offer evidence of sustained, consistent enforcement of these changes over a period of at least one month, demonstrating meaningful community transformation.

You’ve presented us with no evidence for your accusation, simply an assertion of misogyny. And yet your prescription is to change and modify this undocumented problem, a very thinly veiled setup for failure. You know full well we cannot address concerns that have not been raised - Which makes this a kangaroo court by definition.

Your appeals process does not offer an opportunity to claim innocence, instead placing guilt into the default terms of appeal.

But we reject your charges.

Our moderation team has gone to great length to ensure our members follow reddit’s terms of service. We see no terms in the content policy that we have violated. And yet you allege we have broken this unwritten policy. How is it that you expect moderators and community to follow such rules is beyond me. Perhaps it is because you prefer to keep all communities in the dark about the unwritten rules. Keep everybody guilty of some crime, and selectively enforce it upon those you disagree with.

“Show me the man, I’ll show you the crime.” — Lavrenti Beria, secret police chief under Stalin

To me, this seems like an immeasurably bad way to run a social media site which depends on its users for long-term survival. Perhaps it’s not in your interest to ensure Reddit stays around. Maybe you’re using censorship and quarantines as a means to redirect discussion into the direction you prefer. Maybe you’re trying to sway an election? I don’t know, that’s above my pay grade.

Misogyny is a very nebulous term, one that I disagree with heartily. Many use it in places where somebody has been critical of women, but does that meet the criteria of hate? I think that’s a very high bar to meet. One way we can test your definition of misogyny is simply to see how you’ve applied these standards site-wide.

Let’s say I started a subreddit with a mission statement:

R/UpsetFemales is a subreddit for mocking reddit's large, vocal, and hypocritical female population.

Women have a right to dignity and to exist, but they don't have a right to be upset and uncomfortable whenever they're confronted with sexism issues.

Would this meet your definition of misogyny?

Well, substitute the words “female” and “women” with white people and you’ve got yourself the sub /r/fragilewhiteredditor. And for some reason they’re not quarantined.

Now I’m sure you guys understand the implications of picking and choosing what completely legal ideas and topics are okay to discuss on reddit. When you choose to block off /r/theredpill and post an endorsement to your point of view (Michel Kimmel), you’re tacitly endorsing the points of view you’ve chosen not to censor – especially the ones that align with Michael Kimmel.

Hatred (by your definition) is okay as long as the target is against white people.

What about towards men? Here are some lovely sentiments floating around reddit that the reddit admin tacitly endorses by not censoring or quarantining:

“Sorry you're going through this. It's the patriarchy: men think they own women. That is a flat out fact.”

“sorry boys but its true and yall need to be taught not to rape. You are a cancer on society.”

“I still see so many people say that "All men are rapists" This is a factually accurate statement expressing that men are socialized as both heterosexual and weapons against women and so typically have sex relationships that are not consensual in a fully self-actualized sense.”

“I’m a misandrist, but I don’t want to be”

So it is clear, you tacitly endorse these positions if they are not quarantined as well.

To make matters worse, when you quarantined us, you put up a message directing our users to Stony Brook University Center for the Study of Men and Masculinities whose executive director is Michael Kimmel. The same Michael Kimmel who denies male abuse victims. I see since then you’ve had the presence of mind to remove it- but without so much as an apology to our community of men who had to witness this. I would absolutely hate to know that the well being of abuse victims on /r/theredpill have been affected, or worse- hurt, by this event.

What would happen if the admin posted a message at the top of TWOX claiming that women’s abuse isn’t nearly as high as reported and that men’s abuse was much worse? Well, I’m pretty sure you’d call that misogyny.

So what’s it called when you do it to men? (It’s called misandry.)

We know the quarantine process isn’t simply about keeping the front page clear of controversial topics. There’s literal shit porn, women getting pissed on, and detailed rape fantasies which have gotten the pass from your administration. Looks like you guys just love shit, piss, and rape.

Meanwhile the content on TRP has helped thousands (if not more) of men find an identity and the strength needed to get back on the horse after terrible events like breakups, divorces, or false rape accusations. For some, they believe TRP literally saved their lives. Some of whom could easily have ended up dead.

Look, you could have asked us to remove ourselves from /r/all, and we would have complied. But the quarantine makes things much worse. Mobile users see a message that we’ve gone private, causing our modmail to get literally hundreds of messages asking for access, completely halting actual mod functions. Members who have already subscribed are having a hard time finding us. It is clear that your goal with quarantine was to put as much into place as possible to make us fail, all while not actually pulling the trigger on an outright ban, because you know full well we keep the user base in check and do not allow rule breaking.

But I’m willing to give you guys the benefit of the doubt. Let’s say all of my well documented and evidenced accusations are simply wrong. Let’s say you really are just trying to make reddit a nice beige happy-land for new users and advertisers, and your goal was not to tacitly endorse all the hatred on the internet that you have chosen not to censor. I am willing to propose a compromise.

Remove the quarantine, and we will select the option to prevent being seen from /r/all. This has a lot of benefits. First of all, you won’t be tacitly endorsing every bit of hate on reddit because you’re no longer picking sides. But most importantly, your users will see the admin team actually applies rules in a balanced and fair manner, gaining you a level of respect that, let’s face it, Ellen Pao did a good job eroding.

We would be happy to comply with reasonable requests that help you with your advertisers and future IPO. We aren’t your enemy. The way you’ve gone about this was a big mistake and I think we can both agree on that. Let’s work together to move past this event and get the admin and users back on the same side for the benefit of reddit.


[–]Do not send modmail to my personal inboxCrazyHorseInvincible[M] [score hidden] stickied comment (6 children)

It bears pointing out that:

  • At no point in this entire process did Reddit administrators reach out the mod team, either in public or in private, and attempt to open a dialogue.

  • Reddit has never publicly made clear what precise decision making process goes into bans or quarantines, who makes such decisions, or whether there is a formal process at all.

  • Reddit as an entity has never troubled to explicitly define many of the terms such as "misogyny" or "racism" which it bans entire communities for. Without such a formal definition, communities cannot anticipate what standards they will be held to.

  • This lack of transparency leads to the strong appearance that Reddit's gradual process of creeping censorship is not the result of any sort of articulate plan or formal, objective standards, but instead the result of a series of subjective decisions by Reddit staff, made based upon their own personal values and opinions.

  • "Don't do anything that upsets /u/spez" is not a set of guidelines... it is the lack thereof.

[–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor 257 points258 points  (4 children)

We aren’t your enemy.

That's the strangest thing about this whole saga. This is one of the tightest run ships on the internet. The site wide rules are ruthlessly enforced. Racism, advocating violence against women (and men) and blatant politicking is immediately crushed. Sure, we say things that are uncomfortable, but brigading is explicitly disallowed by the mods and we are entirely tolerant of a huge swath of reddit that does not agree with us. This place is an example of how an orderly, safe sub should be run.

And that gets put in a box...

[–]DancesWithPugs 35 points36 points  (0 children)

Some of the admins run a brigade and harassment sub called TopMindsOfReddit

[–]666Evo 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Sure, we say things that are uncomfortable

Which are true, but against the narrative.

The admin can't have the truth getting out to too many people.

[–]modSlyGradient[M] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

This is one of the tightest run ships on the internet.

Because we actually have a traditional male hierarchy here with none of that feel-good BS ... of course they would sneeringly dismiss that as a "patriarchy".

[–]thirdincomestream 0 points1 point  (0 children)

blatant politicking is immediately crushed

This seems to be the point of the quarantine. Through #metoo and the Kavanaugh situation specifically, sexuality has been politicized.

This is what changed, and why this sub has gone from begrudgingly accepted to quarantined.

[–]the__aggressor 198 points199 points  (2 children)

This is very well written, thank you u/redpillschool for mounting such a vigorous defense of this subreddit. You do us and the movement proud.

[–]Fulp_Piction 4 points5 points  (1 child)

The notion that we have to refer to ourselves as 'the movement' is absurd, we're just vilified by the rest of the platform and the lazy media that pander to the "minorities can't be racist" demographic to make $$$.

This is genuinely the right conversation to have for the sake of society in general.

[–]q2p3 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I would be genuinely interested what the dollar value of this industry would be. The more outlandish the story and the more hate they generate the more profit the media makes

[–]ShitlordX 81 points82 points  (1 child)

An accusation of misogyny is an accusation of hatred of women.

Anger and hatred are related yet different. Some make the distinction between anger and hatred as being a matter of duration and intensity.

Anger is indisuptably part of the Kübler-Ross model of grief (aka denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance). To deny someone their anger is to deny them their healing.

The philosophy of the red pill is repeatedly discovered by young men seeking understanding of the world and sometimes needing support through personal crisis.

Young men swallowing the red pill will therefore often go through a phase of anger. This is not the end state of process, but it is a known step along the journey that they need to take.

There is no hatred here. There is indeed anger here. Anger is part of healing. By denying a forum for that anger the admins want to deny the healing, and instead leave men trapped in the illness that modern society has created and groupthink has propagated.

[–]eyewant 29 points30 points  (0 children)

Anger is indisuptably part of the Kübler-Ross model of grief (aka denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance). To deny someone their anger is to deny them their healing.

This needs to go on the sidebar, ASAP

[–]Endorsed Contributorsqerl 55 points56 points  (3 children)

Good job calling out the hypocrisy.

Something tells me we're not dealing with due process, but rather appealing to an emotional ratioalization which someone said, "I'll be the one to take them down" for some internet points.

[–]jcrpta 17 points18 points  (1 child)

That was pretty obvious when an accusation was made with no evidence, and the tone was very much "we expect your appeal to explain how you're going to avoid sinning again" (as opposed to "Here's the evidence you've been sinning. What do you have to say to that?").

[–]Endorsed Contributorsqerl 14 points15 points  (0 children)

You'd think it would be obvious but so many people don't see it that way. They get caught up in their emotions and reason goes out the window. Schools teach the kids shit, parents are absent, so how are they to know they're being screwed?

[–]Senior Contributor: "The Court Jester"GayLubeOil 84 points85 points  (17 children)

When passive agressive betas get called on their bullshit they're don't engage in dialogue. They repress the confrontation up the Xanex dose and hide in their Never Never Land Adult toy collection.

That's my prediction

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 26 points27 points  (16 children)

It wouldn't look good for their new appeals process they just announced to end up being ignored....

[–]Senior Contributor: "The Court Jester"GayLubeOil 52 points53 points  (6 children)

Their appeals process most likely functions like the appeals process of any university department of diversity and equity. It exists symbolically so that they can feel good about it existing. However functionaly it's a kangaroo court.

[–]Do not send modmail to my personal inboxCrazyHorseInvincible[M] 26 points27 points  (5 children)

We expect this.

Reversal of the quarantine, or even the opening a dialogue, may be a goal here, but it's not the anticipated result.

The most likely outcome is, as you have described, a failure to respond or acknowledge that any communication has taken place. The goal with respect to that outcome is that Reddit is publicly seen to have done so.

[–]666Evo 5 points6 points  (0 children)

We expect this.

As do most of us. Good luck with the fight, gents.

[–]Chaddeus_Rex 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Perhaps give it some time for reddit to respond, then bombard as many subs as possible with screens of them not responding. Just for publicity sake to embarrass them a little and generate discussion?

Its also suitable Machiavellian.

Please don't tell me that TRP mods are going to go full cuck mode and say 'we won't stoop to their level'.

[–]Do not send modmail to my personal inboxCrazyHorseInvincible[M] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

We're not beholden to the outcome of this process.

The thing to understand is that TRP is not fighting a war with Reddit. They don't have the power to impede our goal, because our goal is, and always has been, to provide certain types resources and discussion for those men who want them and seek them out.

We don't need Reddit to do that, and while a move off Reddit would result in some dip in subscriber numbers, we kinda don't give a shit. We'd still be there for those men who made the effort to keep watching and listening. /u/redpillschool, /u/whisper, /u/humansockpuppet, and the rest of the active Vanguards have always been in agreement that it would be preferable to go back to being a 1k member group, like in the old days, rather than compromise what we do here.

The red pill is not a crusade or movement. It isn't here to effect change in society, it's here to effect change in your life, and we don't need X number of subscribers, or X amount of publicity, to do that.

Because we have no "loss condition" in the possible outcomes of this, Reddit, if it chooses to go to war with us, has no "win condition".

The only question which remains is how badly they will embarrass themselves, and whether they attempt to do damage control, or just ignore the whole thing and hope that relatively few people notice.

[–]Chaddeus_Rex 0 points1 point  (1 child)

The only question which remains is how badly they will embarrass themselves, and whether they attempt to do damage control, or just ignore the whole thing and hope that relatively few people notice.

I hear you.

Although there is no war with reddit, why not 'twist the shiv' and give them a bad time? Inconvenience them a little.

A man should not go down without a fight and TRP mods/vanguards as role models should not go down without a fight either. Perhaps it would be suitable to show the young boys how to fight dirty if need be just for its own sake? After all being de-platformed is a 'loss' in a way.

[–]Do not send modmail to my personal inboxCrazyHorseInvincible[M] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Nah. We're going to be kicked off reddit eventually. We have known this and planned for it since year one. Our very premise personally bothers people from the Silicon Valley beta male culture... it's simply a question of when their feels manage to work through the rationalization process and reach their actions.

They will of course sincerely believe they are making a business decision, but that's how rationalization works.

Our goal is to maximize the embarrassment for them, not in order to reach a wider audience, but for the sake of our own readership... so you can understand just how intellectually, morally, and ideologically bankrupt our opposition is, and why TRP needs to exist.

We're not going to bet anything substantial on winning a debate where our opponent and the moderator are the same person. It's a kangaroo court, and when you're before a kangaroo court, you don't try to win the case, you try to expose for the public that the court is a sham. This is how we are proceeding.

Personally, I'm totally cool with moving to our own platform, now or later.

[–]truecrisis 4 points5 points  (7 children)

I think you shouldn't have wrote "you like piss and shit". It's just a cheap shot that doesn't further the discussion.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 20 points21 points  (3 children)

Kind of disgusting right? Puts you off because it's over the top and obscene? That's actually the point I'm making.

[–]DannyDemotta 2 points3 points  (1 child)

And rape. Don't forget about rape. Unless you're denying rape victims exist?

[–]truecrisis 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Nah, just didn't remember the full quote while typing on my mobile.

[–]iiOgetsu 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's actually tactically correct to make such an argument in that fashion; it elicits an emotional response from the reader. No matter how it's perceived, you still technically plus off of it because the underlying objective for this letter is to point out the extreme hypocrisy at play here - something best done with striking language on the internet.

[–]DancesWithPugs 35 points36 points  (0 children)

  1. I am an abuse victim and felt attacked and invalidated by the admin's actions

  2. TRP and related subs helped me turn my life around and understand some of the abuse and hostility I have suffered

  3. I am a free speech advocate and believe thought control and censorship are the tools of totalitarians

  4. I generally follow egalitarian principles and give just as much respect to my female colleagues and friends as males

  5. I believe people can learn from each other and work out their differences, but only when there is a safe place for honest communication

  6. The mod team is reasonable and I can see why I got a few warnings for breaking the subreddit's rules

  7. I have been studying and discussing gender issues for over two decades and do not need help filtering out wrongthink

[–]__ManBeast__ 60 points61 points  (1 child)

It's sad that this sub was "quarantined" (or rather, had a thinly veiled attack against it) in the first place, but this appeal is beautifully worded and seems effective enough to either reverse the quarantine or prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that Reddit censors and removes dissenting opinions against their own liberal agenda if they choose not to appeal.

I hope that TheRedPill can continue to grow and spread valuable information to men who need it now more than ever, but I am also prepared to move to TRP.red if the admins decide to silence us again for simply disagreeing with them.

Overall, I think we all need to come together as a community to support its growth no matter the response given to the appeal.

[–]Chaddeus_Rex 4 points5 points  (0 children)

it doesn't matter what they write, reddit admin will ignore it.

[–]packetdata 28 points29 points  (5 children)

You guys should mention the fact with examples of how /r/twoxchromosomes is way way more toxic.

[–]1empatheticapathetic 7 points8 points  (0 children)

He did

[–]omega_dawg93 9 points10 points  (0 children)

that place is comical to me. pure comedy.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

How did you mention another sub without having a bot remove the post? Last time I typed slash r slash something the post was automatically removed.

[–]packetdata 3 points4 points  (0 children)

i did get a message saying that post was removed but then i guess the mod approved it,i suspect the reddit admins have messed with the bots on this sub.

[–]SpectacularFox 18 points19 points  (0 children)

Misandry is fine on reddit, anything but 24/7 fawning over women is considered misogyny and will get you banned. I don't think you're going to have much luck appealing to the admins rationality, they are agenda driven. SJW agenda that is.

[–]Sgt_Hero 14 points15 points  (0 children)

I'm not holding my breath. When confronted a beta cuck's favorite weapon is censorship. They get off on silencing those they disagree with while unironicaly calling them fascists or in this case misogynists.

[–]TheImpossible1 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Pointing out shit from r/GenderCritical would make a better point. It's a pure hate sub and was even on the banout list.

[–]flat_tree 12 points13 points  (2 children)

they want us to beg, plain and simple

[–]jcrpta 13 points14 points  (0 children)

They do, but the first rule of RP is you don't beg for anyone.

[–]pseudonym42 11 points12 points  (7 children)

If the admins read this post, good. I was the biggest beta cuck loser you can imagine. Without getting into it, TRP didn't make me hate women. It helped me understand what happened (virtue signalling, trying to negotiate attraction, etc) and suddenly I stopped being angry at women, or the woman in this case, and move on from it. TRP isn't misogynist. It's just reality.

[–]iiOgetsu 0 points1 point  (6 children)

What we're seeing is the 80:20 rule being used against us though. People like Sandman and other people more vitriolic than him speaking out on the subreddit and essentially destroying everyone who disagrees, and especially putting their vitriol towards other women. Plus, don't get me started on the false alphas, the ones acting like they slay, but the moment something doesn't go their way, they blame it on "muh hypergamy, AWALT". That's not the point of what Rollo was trying to get across, and the attitude that is perverting the Red Pill into what the Reddit admins are seeing us for is caused by 20% of the users here. It's not the majority of us that are doing this, but there ARE bad apples, and denying that there are will do us no good.

[–]pseudonym42 6 points7 points  (5 children)

It's called the anger phase for a reason. This sub isn't here to support it, it's to help dudes move past it. It's probably more then 20%, but that isn't the point. The point is reddit policies are followed, and yet somehow that didn't matter.

[–]iiOgetsu 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Anger phase my foot, that still directly lends to what the outside sees. They don't understand the shit like you and I do, they don't talk to these guys, they don't think like us, they haven't gone through the crap we've gone through. They aren't in the community. So when they come in and see guys going through the anger phase in here, they aren't thinking "Man....he's definitely in the anger phase....lemme at least throw in my two cents to help this kid out", they're thinking "(GASP) THIS IS DEFINITELY MISOGYNY." And then they press the "quarantine button", and everybody dies.

Ok that's exaggerating, I wrote it cuz I thought it was funny, but still, you get my point right? They were out for us from the getgo, but the vitriol was too much regardless. It's something that could've been contained. A simple "Avoid making misogynistic posts at all costs" rule probably would've done the trick. It's not censoring, it's not saying don't make said posts, it's simply putting a warning out there that excessive vitriol that isn't conducive to any sort of discussion, will be removed. But we never had that, we gave it free reign under the fear that someone would poison us with Purple Pilled bullshit. But here we are, in a situation where such a rule could've staved off this quarantine for another year maybe. Does the 20% matter anymore? I think not. Because the ones that have to dig us out of this shithole now are not ourselves, but the mods. All we can do is hope, just like we were doing when we had the ability to make a meaningful call to action in the first place. Now we don't have said ability and we're crying about it. What gives?

[–]pseudonym42 2 points3 points  (2 children)

No one is crying. Don't lose your frame. What you're explaining is society, not just reddit. It's a shit test. TRP will be fine. We hope on reddit, but if not, TRP goes on.

[–]iiOgetsu 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Point is, if we buckle now, it's the same as losing frame.

[–]dogkindrepresent 0 points1 point  (0 children)

People have a right to anger and hate. I don't really think it's actually appropriate to ban emotion.

I hate pop music for example. It makes me very angry. Those are just emotions. Perfectly acceptable to have.

There are sometimes inappropriate ways to act out emotion and that's entirely different.

[–]RUALUM15 29 points30 points  (2 children)

Eloquently said. And yet somehow the reddit admins will lose this battle either way. They either fashion together a straw man argument and get publicly exposed or relent with their tails between their legs and admit defeat.

[–]ThePantsThief 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Which is why they will not so much as utter a response, since it has not been a month and we have not held up our end of the bargain as they see it.

That or they'll cite that new "positive masculinity" subreddit which is basically rTXC for men. The top post last time I checked was something about the importance of consent.

[–]Chaddeus_Rex 1 point2 points  (0 children)

a third option is they ignore it entirely, as if it never happened. that is why I propose that screenshots of this post be made and as many subs get bombarded with them and their lack of response, so that admin is forced to respond or lose face.

[–]cuteshooter 31 points32 points  (4 children)

It's not about credibility or cash. It's a last desperate system-wide attempt to control the narrative at all costs. Fuck their IPO, their advertisers, and their hypocritical cuck bullshit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Swartz

[–]lifestuff69 15 points16 points  (1 child)

Aaron never would have allowed this shit to happen.

[–]cuteshooter 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Shit never allowed Aaron to continue happening.

[–]MaunaLoona 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Once you see who owns reddit all will be clear.

[–]womans_algorithm 20 points21 points  (2 children)

RPS used logic!

It wasn't very effective!

[–]moroi 0 points1 point  (1 child)

One of the very first lessons I learnt from TRP is that you argue (use logic) for the audience.

[–]womans_algorithm 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you're looking to get majority of the audience, you must evoke emotions.

[–]AnonymousTSCM 8 points9 points  (0 children)

It's funny how you mention misandry because it's not like anyone even knows what that means especially feminist subreddits who post about misogyny all day.

[–]liquorbaron 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Geez. Hate to put on a tinfoil hat as it clashes with my neckbeard but this is starting to make that Qanon stuff look legit. There's certainly a lot of censorship going on nowadays by these tech companies.

[–]redandnarrow 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I've been around since the sub was 50k as a lurking reader for years consuming it daily at first and tapering off over time. If there is a ban coming, I just want to thank all the commenters who have posted their testimonies/stories over the years in response to posts. Testimony is really powerful and I've saved many of them.

After reading the side bar and the rare major postings, that was really the main reason to return to the forum and read; the experiences that leaked out here and there from people in the comments. I know that the internet has LARPers, but I know they can't all be false and they match and give light to my own relationships, my parents, and watching my friends relationships and their parents. It all adds new nuances to seeing what is really going on underneath in situations and I've been able to help myself and some friends avoid folly despite not really being able to give them the full pill.

This community has been a great resource in moving my worldview to a better place despite the bitter pill at first. My lifestyle has been much healthier because of it. If the community continues here or trp.red finds its footing with a better format; please keep posting your stories.

[–]NoMoreMrNiceGuy95 22 points23 points  (6 children)

Is it possible for a quarantine to be overturned? I have no idea how this works

[–]theexpertjoel 30 points31 points  (0 children)

I have yet to see one overturned. Censorship is at an all time everywhere. Most unfortunately it has reached this community and with us out of the way the precedent is set and everything else on Reddit will be policed heavily

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 28 points29 points  (2 children)

They recently changed their rules to include an appeals process for quarantined subs.

This indicates that they have made a promise to the community to hear and respond to said appeals.

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

[deleted]

    [–]ThePantsThief 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Yeah, it's for appealing allegedly valid quarantines, not for disputing invalid ones.

    [–]primo_pastafarian 7 points8 points  (1 child)

    It's not about a quarantine that was triggered by some sort of clear violation of rules. Because that never happened.

    It is about an agenda to silence men who step out of line and try to promote true equality instead of bowing and scraping for women.

    [–]blazze 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    inceltears has had a concerted effort since day one of its founding to search for reasons to destroy the

    man o sphere . braincels was an easy target to take down TRP was probably caught in crossfire.

    [–]sackofwisdom 24 points25 points  (1 child)

    You got me with the /r/fragilewhiteredditor bit.

    What would happen if the admin posted a message at the top of TWOX claiming that women’s abuse isn’t nearly as high as reported and that men’s abuse was much worse? Well, I’m pretty sure you’d call that misogyny.

    So what’s it called when you do it to men? (It’s called misandry.)

    Another great point. Your arguments were well laid out, but the passive aggressive jabs

    Looks like you guys just love shit, piss, and rape.

    aren't going to persuade anyone.

    I am willing to propose a compromise.

    They hold all the cards. And this community actually prefers to stay out of the limelight. If T_D is shut down, they will have hell to pay. RP, not so much.

    I say let them burn it down. We know it is an injustice. It won't go unnoticed by the large number of redditors who have been keeping tally of Reddit admin bullshit and censorship across the internet.

    [–]iiOgetsu 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Well, technically, doing this is also tactically correct. The point of the subreddit is to not bow. While I agree that normally the passive-aggresion wouldn't persuade everyone, in this case we still technically don't lose - we aren't fighting for a physical platform. You can shut down our access, sure, but you can't shut down ideas, which is what the Internet inherently incubates. This fight isn't necessarily a zero-sum game, it's more of a negative sum game, and it kind of has been for a very long time now. As a matter of fact, the Red Pill lifestyle is generally more of a negative-sum game than anything else, because whenever there is a competition over resources, there are only 2 major kinds of games that can be played: zero-sum, and negative-sum. Positive-sum games are alliances, so they are only evident within a zero or negative sum game.

    Point is, the fight against the quarantine, and any appeals process for that matter, is more of a negative-sum game in the context of TRP, due to the fact that most people attempting to shut us down in the first place hate us. That hate makes them disregard reason, and it's via this hatred we encounter most of our opposition. Backing down would implicitly turn this fight into a zero-sum game, which we would lose by default. Bad for us, to say the least.

    [–]swishandswallow 6 points7 points  (1 child)

    I think one of the major things that led to the quarantine is people trying to politicize the red pill, while in reality, red pill has nothing to do with politics. Red pill existed before politics, it existed while man was still in caves. Red pill theory by itself is a biology lesson but pairing it with shitty commentary from T_D, it takes on a whole new meaning. Ban politics and keep this sub pure.

    [–]iiOgetsu 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    That's the problem, we're getting sucked into the political vacuum. The left politicizes and polarizes everything it touches, it's like a cancer. Your political ideology should be a bi-product of your Red Pilled thinking, not the other way around. You aren't Red Pilled because you are conservative or liberal, you're liberal or conservative based on your Red Pill understanding. People attempting to politicize the philosophy are what's poisoning the community, and that's why I'm a little concerned about Rollo allowing himself to speak on slightly more political things. I'm hoping he can keep away from the slippery slope.

    [–]NiceTryDisaster 3 points4 points  (3 children)

    CEO is conducting an AMA currently

    [–]Modredpillschool[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    Indeed they are! ;)

    [–]ahackercalled4chan 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    and he's only responded to 11 questions...smh...

    [–]StrongAttitude 3 points4 points  (2 children)

    This is pointless. They will never un-quarantine this sub.

    You still don't know how leftist people do things? The Red Pill is a great danger to the enslavement of men, so they will try their best to get rid of it.

    [–]iiOgetsu 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Either way, this post is tactically correct. Doing anything else would essentially show a sign of weakness, which would inherently undermine what this subreddit stood for. It would turn our war of attrition (because we knew that we'd be censored at some point) into a zero-sum game, a game which we would inherently lose. We can't afford to lose if we want to preserve any semblance of the community.

    [–]DancesWithPugs 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Obey your boss at work, obey wifey at home. Ick.

    [–]grewapair 4 points5 points  (1 child)

    You're attempting to apply logic and reason to a group of people who have none.

    Here's the issue in a nutshell. The left believes that men are all powerful, and that they use that power to subjugate women. TRP sees the reality that women have most of the power in the sexual marketplace and do what they can to attempt to increase male power in the sexual marketplace so as to adjust the imbalance. But the left finds any increase in male power to be objectionable: they want it reduced, preferably to zero, not increased.

    They don't want equality, any more than they are now objecting about the reality in South Africa, where whites are being murdered and financially castrated. They pushed to eliminate apartheid on the basis of its lack of equality, but the reality is they never cared about equality. They want whites and males to lose their power -- all of it, so they have totally ignored the current total lack of equality in South Africa where it was cause #1 in the 1980s and 1990s. TRP is fundamentally at odds with that, and so they see TRP as mysogynist, because of their belief that anyone who doesn't believe in the annihilation of all male power everywhere must be a misogynist.

    You are arguing their stated point, which they don't care about at all. What they care about is the elimination of male power and anything that doesn't further than cause is horrible. Instead, you are arguing that you don't hate or degrade women, but that isn't enough for the left, and so you have failed to understand their definition of misogyny, and therefore you are arguing apples while they are arguing oranges, and never shall the trains meet.

    So your appeals will fall on deaf ears. Either you build a site of your own or die. Sure go ahead and appeal, but as long as the issues here are fundamentally at odds, I see very little chance of success. In the meantime, we all need to make a point to vote in the elections.

    [–]iiOgetsu 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Either way, as I said like 3 times in other comments here, this post is still technically tactically correct.

    [–]segsfault 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    This is written very well and I want to see the response given by Reddit.

    [–]liquorbaron 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    As usual the truth needs a warning label.

    [–]rafaelvicuna4 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    Reddit has become more cucked each passing year

    [–]swipedstripes 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    Whatever, it's not like we haven't seen this coming. All these chicks care about is some rich guy molesting another chick 20 years ago. Other women come and say "Yeah that happened to me too!! Men are pigs." and try to all feel the same about the problem. Not even knowing what happened before. We're both different females won't understand our viewpoints the same way a lot of us still don't understand theirs.

    The fact of the matter is that females spend 70-80% of all the money in the world and the world runs on greed. Females hold all the controls. Just start a website far away from Reddit, lead a small group to it and rebuild. Ignore the weakling Males that scream " misogyny".

    Fact of the matter is: Women like successful men. They always admit that, they want someone with a good job, a nice house, social skills, bed skills, social group and whatever the fuck else some girlfriend has found in a man. This takes time. Work on yourself and ignore the rest. It's basically a Reddit shittest. No little forum beta's discussing and self-help isn't allowed, how dare you say that about our little angels. Problem is: Reddit is the owner of the platform we post at. It's like being hated by your boss. It's like fucking a prostitute with HIV raw. It might work for a while but you'll die in the end, there is nothing to gain.

    Ignore move on. They don't understand society will self-destruct if we continue the hyper feminized way living. Either when a big war comes or all the weakling males simply won't be attractive to females anymore and the birthrates plummet (peculiar that Japan, Germany and other first world countries experience this right? Fuck it, let's import loads of immigrant men!).

    Red pill is purely selfish at it's core. You work on "yourself" to better "yourself" out of it comes money "you" spend. A body for you to enjoy the benefits of. We'll continue to grow in silence, just stay on your mission, enjoy yourself and also enjoy a females company if she offers you the ability to experience it. Your close friends will detest you if you try to help them. They'll poke fun at you for trying to get better at something they also do not understand (yet). Just stay on your mission do not discuss the red pill make your accomplishments seem effortless.

    All of this political bullshit is unwinnable. Arguing like girls about semantics. I'm white and people hate me on a daily basis in this political climate, I don't give a fuck. My best friend was Black growing up, I've been basically adopted by a Turkish family while being a kid, I practically lived in their home. Am I going to say that when I get accused? I laugh and roll my eyes and just continue with whatever I'm doing. Frame is everything. Muslima girls like me, they'll chat me up, they'll try to reason why they like me. Try to guess which country I'm from, ask if I had other Muslima girls. Don't play their game be smart. Is there a sub about hating white people? I don't give a fuck. These people are weak anyway. I'm working on my own mission. Crabs will get you down. Growing too much will make something implode. And staying on this cancer infested website will make this self help forum die a slow and painful death.

    tldr;

    Women and men are different, conflict of interest.Money talks, females spend the bulk of it.

    Women like successful men they'll admit it. However they don't want to know about the struggle. It has to be effortless. Otherwise you are a faker to them. Lesser men will hate you, they don't understand the struggle. They're too tired to self help or self improve. They see bad boys grab their Women all day long over and over. Discussing and debating with these people won't help. It's negotiating a relationship on a free platform. Ignore the shittest.Redpill is selfish, helping other people will attract reckless people, hate and ridicule from all parties.And last but not least, fuck politics, we're the 20% we won't ever win in numbers and competing in a game that's rigged against you is dumb. Hate will always exist, just hold frame, ignore, laugh it away and continue your mission.

    [–]DancesWithPugs 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    A crab is the astrological symbol of Cancer. How appropriate. Icky tangent: Supposedly cancer was named as such because of the gross red boils filled with white cancer cells, resembling a cooked crab.

    The bucket crabs will drag you down only if you let them.

    [–]Fulp_Piction 4 points5 points  (1 child)

    Michael Kimmel currently under investigation for sexual harassment. Obviously there's due process and burden of proof to be considered, but if he's convicted..

    Jesus christ Reddit, what a train wreck that would be. Endorsing a rapist as an example of positive masculinity to a sub that you claim is full of misogynists, it would be funny if it wasn't so fucked up.

    [–]DancesWithPugs 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Oh it's funny, finding amusement in absurdity helps keep me balanced.

    [–]velinxs 7 points8 points  (0 children)

    Hear hear.

    [–]1SirKolbath 7 points8 points  (2 children)

    Out of curiosity, have any outside legal avenues been discussed? I am continually amazed at the number of conservatives such as Laura Loomis, Milo, and the numerous Red Pill authors who have had their livelihoods impacted by Twitter bans and other social media censorship who have not filed lawsuits. There is a huge following of “everymen” like myself who have been silenced on social media who would gladly sign on to a class action lawsuit against Twitter and Facebook. And with this nonsense I’d happily sign in blood on any lawsuit against Reddit.

    Is that an option?

    [–]WarViper1337 10 points11 points  (1 child)

    Without an internet bill of rights there is little anyone can do right now. Since these are all considered private companies they have pretty much free reign in who they ban and when they do it and for whatever reason.

    [–]1SirKolbath 8 points9 points  (0 children)

    On a personal level, I don't give a shit who gets banned or for what provided the terms of service are enforced evenly across both sides and not used to silence opposition.

    My account was banned seven times on Facebook before I finally closed it. Not one of those bans was the result of any actual violation of their terms of service. I had some liberal cuntstain literally threaten to bash in my teeth. Facebook blithely responded to my report that there was no "credible threat of violence." I called him a cuntstain because, as mentioned, he was, and my account was suspended for thirty days.

    If a business has published rules and chooses to operate in a manner that violates those rules, that is fraud and the consumers have the right to file charges. (Time Warner Cable got eviscerated in court for violating their charges and rates structure for precisely that reason.)

    The only gray area here is that we are not the consumers on social media; we are the product they sell to advertisers. That is why we need the charge to be led by those who can prove a loss of personal revenue-- how many book sales did Illimitablemen.com lose because of his Twitter ban? How much ad revenue did Laura Loomer lose as a result of losing her blue check for posting a video of DNC vice chair Keith Ellison running like a bitch and refusing to answer questions about his physical assault on a woman seven weeks ago?

    In any business one who suffers a loss can file a legal charge against the person responsible for that loss if it was due to fraud, negligence, open harassment or defamation. These people have lost thousands of dollars. I can't lead the charge. I'm a peasant. I need someone else to light the torches. I'll bring the pitchforks, and we'll meet at Zuckerberg's summer home.

    [–]RedPillHanSolo 2 points3 points  (3 children)

    I understand that "fuck dem lol" autistic approach is a tad bit childish, but why not just pack our things and go to trp.red? Those who want to learn will find a way, regardless if TRP is a subreddit or another website.

    [–]iiOgetsu 1 point2 points  (2 children)

    Bc TRP.red has Red Pilled Women.....

    Not that I hate women and don't wanna have that meta-conversation with them (because I do have that convo....on a near daily basis with a hot chick I'm gaming), but I don't feel that it preserves the integrity of the sub.

    TRP is supposed to be a place for MEN. Anything outside of that ventures into Blue Pilled thinking. It's not that women shouldn't have a voice, but it's that it's a place EXPLICITLY FOR THE LEARNING/GROWTH OF MEN. Women aren't the target audience, so the inclusion of TRP.red is asinine. Rule #10 puts it best: "Your comments and posts should be able to stand on the merit of your ideas alone." I don't know how else to explain what's wrong with TRP.red. But until they fix it, I'm not going over there, I'm sticking to the RMG.

    [–]Modredpillschool[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    What are you talking about?

    We have a separate forum dedicated to redpillwomen. It's segregated from https://www.forums.red/i/theredpill

    Just like on Reddit, we have /r/redpillwomen

    [–]1201Seattle 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Well said. Very reasonable with sufficient evidence of the “picking sides”.

    Can’t wait to hear the response...I am not hopeful of change though.

    [–]victor_knight 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    MGTOW suffers from analogous BS charges because of all the TFL-ers and INCELs in it pretending to be MGTOW (and frankly acting like children).

    [–]TheWaterTemple 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Let me just say, I love women.

    [–]TheLaughingRhino 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Strategically, the appeals only purpose IMHO should be to buy time.

    Imagine TRP as a man and Reddit as the woman. TRP's "your turn" with Reddit is close to over. Like a woman, Reddit wants TRP gone and only wants to give the perception of some kind of due process so they don't have to deal with how any of it feels.

    You can't save a relationship with a woman once it starts to fracture. Logic doesn't work. Appeals don't work. Reason doesn't work. She wants out, for whatever reason. If she can't find a good one, she'll just make one up.

    My suggestion would be to formulate a timeline on a calendar and start to clock it. Four weeks and out. Have committed current members each get a list of people who did subscribe and contact each personally by PM. Maybe 10 names for each person. Get them to reach out and get people to TRP.Red. Structure deleting all content here, all posts, all sidebar progressively and porting everything over to the new site.

    When the false appearance of due process is over, Reddit will drop the hammer.

    Since we are encroaching on the holiday season, and people are busy, the powers that be might wait until the New Year to roll this subreddit out. Or they might want to get it done before the Thanksgiving rush. IMHO, this place should be emptied out by Halloween.

    The only power you really have is to walk away.

    Stoicism means outcome independence.

    Nothing endures, it's only "Your Turn"

    "A man can be himself only so long as he is alone; and if he does not love solitude, he will not love freedom; for it is only when he is alone that he is really free."

    "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

    • Arthur Schopenhauer, German philosopher (1788 – 1860)

    Good luck to everyone.

    [–]DarkSyde3000 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Glad I missed that front page shit porn. Don't be surprised if your response to this idiocy is severely lacking. Deplatforming people and groups for wrong think is the new safe space moderation. There's a reason why 4chan /pol/ is one of they last places online that allows free speech despite it's content. Reddit is just part of the technocracy that polices non-existent aggressions that go against their own dogma. If you're in the supposed aggression group, you will not receive a trial, you will be pronounced guilty with extreme prejudice (no pun intended). These sites are nothing more than an approved exchange of ideas.

    [–]thubtop 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    the hypocrites can see that they are loosing ground for just being plain wrong with everything, thus they go stalinism in order to keep their power. these "moral" people are not moral, they are deeply unethical; they think reason, logic, an argument are only used to get power. they do not care about human civilization and humanist values and achievements.

    the regressive left has lost all moral position, the people of the regressive left have to be redpilled or politically defeated, for they are totalitarian people.

    a humanist would be happy to find a "wrong" position and show that it is wrong with facts and logic. a humanist would not "quarantine" text and try to make it harder for counter-arguments to reach an audience. shamelessly immoral people.

    [–]SimplyKaz 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    I'm more of a MGTOW kinda guy but I think this whole quarantine is complete bullshit.

    Rest assured that there's people from all of the 'manosphere' subs that have your guys back. MGTOW, MGTOW2.0, MRA, PUA, MSN, PPD and many more. I thought MGTOW would be targeted wayyyy before you guys tbh. I come here on occasion and I don't think I've ever seen any rules broken. This place is like church when compared to the woman hating, anger, mod abuse and incels we have invading the main MGTOW sub.

    We may have our slight differences but at the end of the day we're trying to do a similar thing so we stand with you. It would be a real shame to see this quarantine stay. Really speaks volumes about Reddit as a whole with its frontier justice, mob mentality and bias. It's wrong for Reddit to just decide what ideas and information is okay and what isn't.

    Best of luck to you.

    EDIT: Shows how good the filtering is on this sub that my post got removed for linking to an unapproved sub. You guys run a tight ship. The admins shouldn't have anything to complain about.

    [–]Modredpillschool[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Thanks!

    Shows how good the filtering is on this sub that my post got removed for linking to an unapproved sub. You guys run a tight ship. The admins shouldn't have anything to complain about.

    I really hope they take this into account. We do everything we can to prevent brigading.

    [–]hubbache 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    First off, Its no secret that men come here angry and in search of answers. Red pill doesn't turn these men away but instead gives these men the actual tools so they don't end up BITTER but infact get BETTER as men. Its understandable to see angry comments from the new commenters, but rather than letting these men's feelings fester. The Red pill helps these men improve their lives and improve their interactions with the men and women around them.

    [–]1RPLawyer 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    The claim of misogyny is the one that baffles me the most. Just go on askTRP and see what happens to men who try to victim puke about their situation and blame women for their troubles. They're always told that THEY are the problem and that THEY need to step up their game.

    Maybe it's concepts like AWALT that rub them off the wrong way but AWALT isn't a commentary on women, it's a defense mechanism for vulnerable men who just started their journey and need black and white rules to follow. No one would claim that a woman who just got raped and refuses to be alone with a man is a man hater. So why are they saying that men who just got divorce-raped, got cheated on, maybe multiple times by multiple women or maybe even got literally abused are called misogynists when they follow AWALT??? Sure, it doesn't shine a good light on women as a group but they need to face the reality that women are human: some of them are pieces of shit, some of them will lie, cheat and rob you. Some will show a complete lack of decency. In other words, AWALT means destroying the pedestal SO many men put women on and finally treating them like equals on a moral level. This isn't misogyny, it's common fucking sense.

    On a personal note, when I found out the manosphere, I started hating women a little bit. I saw them as evil and deliberately bad. When I found the Red Pill, my burgeoning hatred died off in a matter of days when I understood that women weren't bad, they were just different. I understood that I had been playing a game years while following the wrong rules. I became at peace with women and my relationship improved exponentially, so did their relationship with me. I stopped being pissed off like a bitch a my girlfriend because she didn't folllow the covert contracts I made up in my head. I stopped resenting the fact that she didn't fuck me the way I wanted when I understood that choreplay doesn't work and that the only way is to be attractive and not be unattractive. This is all thanks to The Red Pill.

    This witch hunt against TRP is purely ideological and if Reddit wants more unhinged beta males like Eliott Rogers, then go ahead, ban us. The blood will be on YOUR hands.

    [–]B3ER 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    Like a fucking boss. Stand firm for the good that is done here. Don't back down against the morons that run Reddit.

    [–]toolsnotrules 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    thank you.

    [–]Distortedmadness 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    Is there another site this will migrate to in case it gets deleted?

    [–]shuffman37 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    I think its time for some tech savy people to get together on a MGTOW/Red Pill, Pro Man forum, on a dedicated website, and let reddit pound sand like Myspace did.

    [–]Chelsie10 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    I love you mods. However as we all know the admins most likely aware of the aforementioned hypocrisy. They most likely are going to enable the inheritantly marxist SJW cause. In fact, they may double down and ban us. If this is the last comment I make on this sub, may it be this, long live free speech and God Bless America.

    [–]sexy_mofo1 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Not for nothing, but if this kind of thing continues at the steady pace it's been happening, expect a complete information lockout 3 to 6 months (probably won't be earlier, as they won't want to allow for a significant regrouping period) before Election Night 2020. All these bans, de-platforms, service denials, etc. across the entire "Not-Left-Country" landscape are related, and are a long game being played by the people who got BTFO in 2016 and haven't forgotten it. Don't fool yourselves into thinking this move isn't a smaller part of that whole. TRP may seem further removed from political subs like T_D, but in the minds of the people waving these banhammers and attenuation tactics, It's not.

    [–]ChooseTheGreenPill 3 points4 points  (8 children)

    I really disagree with your tone and overall argumentation style here. This isn't a debate, this is an appeal. Please keep that in mind. This doesn't represent the issue well, and has literally zero possibility of accomplishing anything useful. Your writing is full of ad hominems and whataboutism, when it should be about TRP, and the compromises we are willing to make.

    I really hope that you didn't send this yet, because this is ridiculous. I completely misses the point of appeal, and leaves nobody unaware of the fact that you don't understand the issue here. Just accusing the Reddit admins of beign injust isn't going to help. Doing so is important, but if you want results you still have to "prove" that no misogyny is allowed in this subreddit.


    Our moderation team has gone to great length to ensure our members follow reddit’s terms of service. We see no terms in the content policy that we have violated. And yet you allege we have broken this unwritten policy. How is it that you expect moderators and community to follow such rules is beyond me. Perhaps it is because you prefer to keep all communities in the dark about the unwritten rules.

    This is the good part.

    To me, this seems like an immeasurably bad way to run a social media site which depends on its users for long-term survival. Perhaps it’s not in your interest to ensure Reddit stays around. Maybe you’re using censorship and quarantines as a means to redirect discussion into the direction you prefer. Maybe you’re trying to sway an election? I don’t know, that’s above my pay grade.

    Not useful. Not constructive. Just a useless and largely irrelevant insult.

    Hatred (by your definition) is okay as long as the target is against white people.

    Wording this in a bit more polite tone might actually make it a good point. Now it's just an angry man shouting about the world not beign fair.

    What about towards men? Here are some lovely sentiments floating around reddit that the reddit admin tacitly endorses by not censoring or quarantining:

    Whataboutism? Not useful. Not really even constructive. As sad it is, hatred against men isn't shoking or highly offensive, and therefore not subject to quarantine. Moreover, the referenced posts are not very popular, and usually the problematic content wan't even in the post, but in comments.

    To make matters worse, when you quarantined us, you put up a message directing our users to Stony Brook University Center for the Study of Men and Masculinities whose executive director is Michael Kimmel. The same Michael Kimmel who denies male abuse victims. I see since then you’ve had the presence of mind to remove it- but without so much as an apology to our community of men who had to witness this. I would absolutely hate to know that the well being of abuse victims on / r / theredpill have been affected, or worse- hurt, by this event.

    A good point. However, whining about male abuse victims isn't really that relevant. I know that it is a real issue. I know that somebody might have been hurt. But still, maybe this could be worded to sound like a legitimate worry, and not just pretentious victimization.

    We know the quarantine process isn’t simply about keeping the front page clear of controversial topics. There’s literal shit porn, women getting pissed on, and detailed rape fantasies which have gotten the pass from your administration. Looks like you guys just love shit, piss, and rape.

    Once again, ad hominem isn't really the way to convince somebody they are wrong. Those subreddits are marked as NSFW and aren't even nearly as popular as TRP. They are not beign linked. They do not have a political side. They do not discuss ideas. They aren't even a bit shocking, since everybody knows what to expect when entering such a subreddit. And I think they do not negatively affect the ad revenue of Reddit. Or even the public image of it.

    If you want to present an example case of hypocrisy, I suggest that you compare TRP to T_D, since T_D has not been banned or quarantined, even when they break multiple rules of Reddit. But then again, they generate money. We don't.

    But I’m willing to give you guys the benefit of the doubt. Let’s say all of my well documented and evidenced accusations are simply wrong. Let’s say you really are just trying to make reddit a nice beige happy-land for new users and advertisers, and your goal was not to tacitly endorse all the hatred on the internet that you have chosen not to censor.

    Please. Do not go and insult them when you are trying to appeal to them.

    We would be happy to comply with reasonable requests that help you with your advertisers and future IPO. We aren’t your enemy. The way you’ve gone about this was a big mistake and I think we can both agree on that. Let’s work together to move past this event and get the admin and users back on the same side for the benefit of reddit.

    Now, this is what you needed to say.

    [–]Modredpillschool[S] 3 points4 points  (4 children)

    Maybe you don't understand what we're doing here.

    [–]ChooseTheGreenPill -1 points0 points  (1 child)

    That's completely possible. Would you mind to explain?

    [–]Endorsed ContributorJamesSkepp 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    Talking to eachother, which is the point of Reddit in the first place.

    [–]Imperator_Red -3 points-2 points  (2 children)

    Whataboutism? Not useful

    Why not? I feel that whataboutism is actually completely legitimate. It shows the opposition's hypocrisy. This isn't a college logic course. There is nothing logical about the people we are dealing with.

    Bill Clinton is a rapist.

    [–]ChooseTheGreenPill -1 points0 points  (1 child)

    But there is a logical side to this. Reddit wants to make money, and they think TRP is scaring advertisers away. TRP wants to have the quarantine lifted. There might be possible compromises, and discussing about them would be the only way to make this a win-win situation. I don't think we can shame them to not do this, since the public opinion is that TRP is evil. Nor I suppose we should. If TRP wants to exist in Reddit, there must be a compromise-agreement.

    [–]Dafuq_Gusthapened 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    "and they think TRP is scaring advertisers away."

    OR

    they don't like the content and are opting to subvert it a bit.

    Compromising is how we got here. At what point does that spirit of compromise end? Someone HAS to throw the rock through the window, metaphorically speaking.

    Aren't you tired of compromising your life??? 'Green Pill' indeed. smh

    [–]C-grij 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    This was well written, as many others have mentioned, thank you.

    If this subs gets removed which I hope it does not. Is there an archive where we can view the sub and it's posts?

    [–]Shadowthrice 0 points1 point  (2 children)

    Well presented, with a minor exception.

    You may call it tone policing, but since you have clearly taken pains to establish a tone...the stuff about shit and piss and porn was unnecessary and inflammatory.

    Regardless, I predict the admins give either no response or an arrogant bite such as, "The quarantine stands per our previous communication."

    [–]Modredpillschool[S] 5 points6 points  (1 child)

    You may call it tone policing, but since you have clearly taken pains to establish a tone...the stuff about shit and piss and porn was unnecessary and inflammatory.

    If you think that was offensive and didn't belong then I think my point was well presented.

    [–]Shadowthrice 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    Fair enough. I appreciate your taking the time to present our case to the Reddit admins.

    I know being a mod of this sub is hard work with little reward, but the discussions have helped many men, and they have helped me.

    Again, thank you for your effort and dedication.

    [–]michael_wilkins 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Why would you write that massive paragraph when it can just be boiled down to:

    "You’ve presented us with no evidence for your accusation, simply an assertion of misogyny. And yet your prescription is to change and modify this undocumented problem, What is the problem?"

    Why write anything beyond that?

    Hell I think the official TRP response should just be:

    "k"

    Why do we even want to get unquarantined?

    Instead of a trickle of new members, it'll come in waves which make things easier as there'll be value for money in posting information.

    [–]Luckyluke23 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    oh... so they are trying to IPO. NOW I understand why they are getting rid of us. I expect the subreddit counts to go from a few 1million to a few thousand.

    [–]jrr6415sun 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    they are not going to read all that, just be concise and to the point.

    [–]immibis 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    Did you actually tell the admins they are racist and sexist? LOL good luck with that. I expect that part to backfire.

    [–]Modredpillschool[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    I calls it like I sees it.

    [–]newjacktown 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    If this subreddit gets shutdown, do we have an alternative location to head to?

    [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    You know what "implicit bias" is? It's when you don't know you're being biased.

    Given we cannot prove "implicit bias" then you must be guilty of it!

    Fix your "implicit bias" which you cannot, by definition, know about!

    [–]cafeitalia 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    The appeal is too long and that takes away the focal point.

    [–]3CainPrice 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Obviously, the goal of this "appeal" is not actually getting Reddit to withdraw the quarantine. The appeal begins with a threat - "We're making this process public!", casts shade - "Maybe you want to deliberately keep people in the dark with unclear policies!", stamps its feet with self importance - "This is a bad way to run things and without users you'll fail!", and instead of focusing on the non-offensive nature of content in The Red Pill just lists a bunch of other subreddits with bad content and accuses the Reddit administration of bias and favoritism. Then, this "appeal" throws up its hands declaring that it expects the whole process to be a kangaroo court anyway.

    The real hope of this "appeal" is to try to draw attention to the fact that the Reddit administration is biased, partisan, emotional, reactionary, arbitrary, etc., and to discredit their policies and appeal process.

    I don't think that's going to get anybody anywhere, because hardly anybody on the internet outside of The Red Pill's readership is actually following this story with interest and casting judgments on Reddit over the outcome. Nobody cares if Reddit is a kangaroo court that arbitrarily enforces vague policies except the people who are already reading The Red Pill, and maybe the people who are against The Red Pill and happy to see it go.

    [–]dghda 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    I'm sure this was very cathartic to write out, and I sympathize with your anger. But insulting someone is not the best way to get them to listen to you. You're lobbing sarcastic insults at the people you need to convince, that is not how you win an argument.

    Pointing out other subs that also ought to be quarantined under the new policy is also not helping. It's like trying to talk your way out of a speeding ticket by saying, "Look at all the other people who are speeding!" It never works.

    This is not a kangaroo court. It's not any type of court at all. This is a website that is not collectively owned by the users. It's as though we are all guests at someone else's house. If someone starts saying things that the vast majority of the guests consider to be offensive, the host is going to have them take it outside (or in this case the basement). The fact that the person saying it doesn't consider it offensive doesn't make a difference if everyone else does.

    I'm not a regular reader of this sub, I've just been watching the quarantining of various subs with interest. So, I took a quick look at the top posts of all time, just like a new user would do. Right up there in the top ten is the Red Pill Cheat Sheet. Here are just a few of the things it contains that the vast majority of people would consider to be misogynistic.

    Dangerous Vibe. A masculine factor. You are unpredictable, mysterious, you take calculated risks. You are bold. You live life on the edge. You pin her down, you wrestle and play fight with your girl. You choke her. You threaten her.

    Make the girls feel emotional. Not make them feel good, make them feel emotional. That means happy, sad, sexy, plain, excited, disheartened, calm, anxious - anything but letting them not be emotional.

    They lie about themselves and assume you are doing the same. They cannot act/feel on the basis of anything verbally communicated. If she steps out of line say "don't do that". But don't sit down and communicate to her - it will weaken your position and strengthen hers. She will act on absolutely nothing that has been discussed even when she swears on her grandmother she won't (or will) do whatever the problem is. The only exception is putting her in her place when she does something not to your satisfaction.

    As long as stuff like that is front and center you're going to have a very tough time convincing anyone.

    [–]ThePlague 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    I don't get what the big deal is: any man deterred by some slack-jaw site admins saying "this sub is eeeeevil" isn't ready to swallow the red pill anyway. It's pretty bitchy to whine about it, much more effective if it just had been ignored and seen as an example of an ineffective hindrance to men. The only differences that I see are:

    1. Little exclamation mark upper left. It's adorable.
    2. "Quarantine" notice where the number of subscribers use to be. I think I read somewhere that mods can still see the number of subscribers, but ordinary users can't. Some people care about that sort of stuff, so the mods might consider updating the top link/text in the sidebar with the subscriber number. Or not. Shrug.

    Operationally, it's not all that different than something being marked NSFW.

    [–]friendandadvisor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    LOL! You thought that an appeal would get considered!

    I have, after only two bans from other subs, maybe 3, realized that when one is banned, especially for tenuous reasons, one may as well go masturbate into a potted plant. It will get better results.

    [–]iLLprincipLeS 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    There's something truly pathetic about a social order that depends upon absolute monopoly control over public opinion formation merely to survive.

    [–][deleted]  (4 children)

    [removed]

    [–]Modredpillschool[S] 5 points6 points  (3 children)

    This isn't a courtroom. And the game being played isn't what you think.

    [–]Red-Curious 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    I'm fully aware. But if you want results, there is a certain amount of tact that must be applied. That's all I'm saying. Here's a good example:

    We see no terms in the content policy that we have violated. And yet you allege we have broken this unwritten policy.

    You link to the written policy, then call it unwritten. You're probably referring to the unwritten standards that cause them to discriminate against one sub, but not another, but that's not made clear, so it just looks like you're incompetent.

    Here's another one:

    To me, this seems like an immeasurably bad way to run a social media site which depends on its users for long-term survival.

    They have all the data about how this works. They know that even if the outright banned TRP a certain % would still stay on reddit and they wouldn't actually lose that % of users. As for those that do leave permanently (which would be very few), they're inclined to suppose they're the types of users they wouldn't want around anyway. So, you're not proving a point about the financial harm TRP can cause to reddit if the userbase leaves - you're only proving ignorance about how insignificant a ban on TRP would be to reddit's overall profit margins. There are good arguments to make (and you made some), but this isn't one of them.

    Here's another one:

    Misogyny is a very nebulous term, one that I disagree with heartily.

    Your point about it being a nebulous term is a good one. It could range from anything like, "Women are evil and deserve to die" to "Every woman I've ever known has abandoned me, so now I have difficulty trusting women in my life." But when you say you "disagree heartily" with that term - what definition are you going by? You're undermining your own point about it being nebulous by doing this.

    To be clear, I'm not saying your post is bad - just that there are lots of pot holes that could be shored up. I wouldn't want to see them miss your major points (which are good) because they get hung up on stupid stuff like this. But in argumentative writing, people will always focus on the small errors to discredit what you have to say rather than addressing the main thrust or admitting you're right.

    [–]Modredpillschool[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    Did you read the content policy? Not one mention of the rule we broke. Therefore: Unwritten rule

    Listen, I know you're trying to help but you're really barking up the wrong tree here...

    [–]DeadliftRx -3 points-2 points  (9 children)

    You would offer to give up access to the ladder on all for release from quarantine?

    Since when do we negotiate with terrorists? They will just come back for another slice of the pie, later. Would you negotiate with a woman who quarantined you from sex?

    We are morally and objectively substantiated.

    Do not bend knee.

    [–]DeadliftRx -2 points-1 points  (8 children)

    Wow. Censored by the automoderator for linking r-all?

    We do not negotiate with terrorists. Your spine has rounded. Your knee has bent, preemptively.

    Why?

    [–]Modredpillschool[S] 11 points12 points  (1 child)

    Inter-reddit linking has been disabled since the beginning, in order to pre-emptively address admin concerns.

    It's actions like these that show good faith and put us into such a good bargaining position we're in today.

    I fear for this generation.

    [–]DeadliftRx 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    Thank you for the linking explanation.

    [–]Endorsed ContributorJamesSkepp 5 points6 points  (5 children)

    We do not negotiate with terrorists.

    You've watched too many Holywood movies with that phrase and not enough movies about how real-politik is done.

    [–]DeadliftRx -2 points-1 points  (4 children)

    I'm not interested in politics. TRP isn't political. They will end TRP simply because they want to and are able to do so.

    Why enter their frame? My mind is blown.

    [–]Modredpillschool[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    I'm not interested in politics. TRP isn't political.

    You haven't been paying attention in class.

    [–]valvadi 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    TRP as a praxeology and a community steers away from politicking, but that doesn't mean we are free from politics. When our mission statement is the embodiment of everything certain political groups hate, politics tend to come our way.

    [–]Endorsed ContributorJamesSkepp 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    They will end TRP simply because they want to and are able to do so.

    That's real-politik.

    You have an opportunity to learn something new, something you do not agree with, nevertheless - something new.

    [–]DancesWithPugs 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Politics is interested in you