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Blue Pill ExampleI snooped at her messaging, and I'm know a better man thanks to it. (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by JacquesNicoleSonne

What a clickbait!

I’ll start with some background so the still not-so-sure-about-everything-we-say-here-is-true-believers can relate to this story.

I also add that I’m generally pretty, pretty good at reading people. Like i’ve been cheated on before and I Sherlocked it quite fast, and I have some good knowledge of human cognition/body language. And still, I never found out of anything I’m about to post now. You think that you’ll know the day she decides to dump your sorry ass or cheat on you ? Yeah ? I would have bet my life on it aswell, but not anymore.


I was a blue piller for, well most of my life. i'm 26, so judge if you will. Had a 3years LTR end up because I wasn’t able to deal with the relation bullshit no more (that foreshadowing tho), so after that I had a bit of a monk phase. From that point, I absorbed bits and bits of the red pill, implementing, experimenting in my daily life.

It was fun.

Then I met my current girlfriend with whom I’ve been for a bit more than a year. We’ve had our ups and our downs, but as most relationships I suppose, nothing too bad. We always communicate and stuff. I feel like I’m raising up, showing her when she’s pulling some bullshit or hamstering, she seems to grasp most of it (seems is the key word here). The sex is good (thankfully !), she is fun to be around, well, I learned not to ask for too much in LTR and to enjoy the ride while it’s my turn.

Yesterday, I logged on Firefox instead of Chrome and I was in her FB account . I generally trust her, as far as I can trust another human being, but the curiosity got the best of me.

I looked at most of her messaging history.

Talk about swallowing the pill the hard way. I’ll quickly sumamrize what I learned about the girl I thought I knew more than anyone else :


  1. Everytime we had a fight, minor or major (at some point she said she wanted to break up with me ????), she complained to at least 3-4 friends. Some people that I meet on a weekly basis. It’s like she genuinely can’t think alone, she needs her friends’ help to process the arguments we have. I don’t think she is stupid, doing Masters’ studies and everything, but that sure says a lot about women in general.

  2. I had trouble saying « I love you », thanks to you guys I guess. I dont know what love is anymore, so I had to wait a year to say it, not to lie to her or just « say it ». Anyway. It was kind of a sensible topic because she said it first and I pulled a Han Solo (hardcore unvolontary dread, the best). The day I told her back she seemed happy and everything, well apparently « it changed nothing » and « she didn’t feel the butterflies», according to a convo she had. Well, she is a good liar as well, I’ll give her that.

  3. She has had sex with more guys than she admitted to me, I found like 10 different stories, at least (How shocking). Well I know she had fun in her youth (she is 24 now, yeah how sad is this). I KNOW this isn’t a competition, but I feel like I lost by the numbers. Anyway.

  4. She didn’t find me fit, or even pretty, compared to her ex boyfriends. Ok this one hurt to read, but I used to be obese, and has some stretchmarks on my belly. She said that she feels bad for saying it (oh, sweetie !) but she found it kinda disgusting when we fucked the first time. Oh, and I apaprently have a small dick.

  5. She keeps talking with an ex (just talking ?) who cheated on her. Let that sink in. She, a strong independant woman is still talking to an ex who cheated on her, because they work in the same industry, so they might need contacts from each other. I know this is true, but she never told me that she were still talking to him. Oh, and she dreamed about having sex with exes as well (not gonna blame her for that, I had dreams about past references too) That ex was also the biggest she ever had. Fair enough then.

  6. Her conversation is filled with so much bullshit including be not limited to tv show, drama, clothes, what she ate/is eating/will eat…. Like erratic convo, straight from a child’s mouth, going from one topic to the next with no link. This one shocked me,it was straight from reading an old MSN convo (Remember Messenger ?) I might have had at 14… It just make her look stupid to be honest

  7. Last but not least, this sentence : « Before I met JacquesNicoleSonne, I never thought I would find someone as good as my ex regarding sex and cuddles. Now that I’ve found him, I know I can find another »

Welp, that’s true love right here kids. At least this place taught me to take it with amused mastery, I can imagine my younger self crying over a message like this. Well, who’s crying now ?


But hey, everything’s not so bad. Her friends actually give her good advice and call her on her bullshit, i’m as good as her ex regarding sex (and cuddles), she finds that I dress well and she « loves me so much » and she finds me smart. And at least she’s not cheating, right ?

The day I read her messages was one of the best in my life. This is what AWALT is all about.

I won’t dump her, as I really enjoy her company and the sex (yeah it goes both sides), but suddenly I found that my motivation to go to the gym, to take care of myself and to generally improve my SMV just rose up…Who knew ?


Bottom line is :

Even if she loves you, even if you love her, she can and will leave you if you let her treat you as such. Enjoy your turn, as long as you want it to be, it will come to an end. At least, I’m preparing for it while enjoying the show. She is not the prize, you are the prize. **


[–]dRePe_Thill 513 points514 points  (38 children)

Mind blowing sentence from her (JacquesNicoleSonne is OP):

"Before I met JacquesNicoleSonne, I never thought I would find someone as good as my ex regarding sex and cuddles. Now that I’ve found him, I know I can find another"

Hypergamy at work boys another great post to keep us motivated.

[–]JacquesNicoleSonne[S] 154 points155 points  (26 children)

Hypergamy is real, embrace it or lose it!

[–]1FunAndFreedom 237 points238 points  (23 children)

I did a similar investigation on two ex-girlfriends and it mirrored your experience. Honestly, I think it's a terrific idea to read their chat logs, you would get eviscerated in public for admitting this, but you learn so much.

Experience 1: When I was starting my career as a landlord I was with a girl who was so sweet and appreciative to my face. We were together for a year and things were great, I could hear wedding bells in my head. But when my curiosity got the better of me I read her chats. I found she would insult me to her friends and complain that my income was low (of course I paid all the bills while pouring excess money into down payments for investment properties. She also loved staying at my house instead of with her mom). She didn't understand that if I bought a property with 30k+ in equity which I could pay off in 10 years that this added to my wealth, she only saw the $300/mo it would bring in the short term, but I digress.

I wrote off the insults as a female type of idle banter that guys would have in a gym, convinced myself it didn't mean anything and I was a jerk for spying on her. Of course once I started I couldn't stop. Eventually over the course of half a year I found her chatting with other guys, talking sexually and getting ready to branch swing. Being blue pilled I thought she was just flirting and I could just be a 'better man' and turn her around. Then I found her leaving a message to some guy asking "why won't you sleep with me", I confronted her with this and she acted all offended and said "I meant he should sleep over at my house", yeah she used the phrase "my house" as in the house FunAndFreedom owned. That was a life lesson and of course I severed.

Experience 2: I was dating a young 19 y/o girl who claimed to be a virgin. She was funny and innocent and appeared to be the most pure girl you could imagine. Turned out through reading her chats that she was actually telling the truth! I also learned that while she was anxious to lose her virginity, once she did pop her cherry she wanted to sleep with, in her words, dozens of guys. Funny enough, she was pouring her heart out to an orbiter who was completely in love with her. He paid for everything when they were together, he took her on trips on his dime, met her parents, but never progressed past a friend. She knew he was in love with her but she kept him on a string. I imagine that every conversation ripped her orbiter's heart to pieces.

So after I slept with her I knew I had to stay emotionally distant. Ironically I was using TRP tactics without even knowing it, this emotional distance kept her from sleeping around for a while. I kept an eye on her conversations but eventually even miss pure virgin started to chat with other guys. Later on I saw a message she sent to a girlfriend in another language that translated roughly to "Oh I'm single, but my boyfriend doesn't know it yet". Taking my lessons from Experience 1 I broke up with her the next day.

It was one of the most satisfying things in the world to break up with her via facebook message. I never bargained with her, never answered her follow up calls, I just briefly told her I was moving on with no details. What drove her insane was that she never knew the reason. Suddenly her chat logs to her friend were full of self doubt. She was asking if she was ugly, if her breasts were too small, how some whore must have been better than her in some way. It really took her self esteem down a notch. For whatever reason she changed her login a few days later, but I was satisfied knowing that the breakup was emotionally traumatizing for her.

[–]Duchat 50 points51 points  (0 children)

Well written, good story. should be a post all on its own.

[–]JohnnySkidmarx 40 points41 points  (1 child)

Broke up via Facebook and had her questioning her self worth. Bravo!

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (13 children)

How did you get their logins?

[–][deleted]  (11 children)

[deleted]

    [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (10 children)

    Most emails and social media now have a function where if you login from a new device it will send you an alert.

    [–]1kenpachitz 3 points4 points  (3 children)

    Which will trigger the first time she logs in on your device/PC.

    After that, she probably won't know unless she specifically looks up logged in times/devices.

    [–]1jb_trp 49 points50 points  (1 child)

    She'll keep going up the elevator of the "husband department store," but when she gets to the top, she'll find she never was happy with any of them. Good riddance, right?

    [–]sj2k 34 points35 points  (1 child)

    I gotta admit I also think this way. Since I started sleeping with women that are way better than my initial one-itis, it just motivates me to find another.. and another.. and another

    [–]TurduckenII 29 points30 points  (2 children)

    "Sex and cuddles" = Passing shit tests and comfort tests = AF/BB and the hypergamous strain of trying to optimize the two in one man.

    [–]shonthered 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Nice observation. Was just about to post this.

    [–]Platos_slow_brother 207 points208 points  (90 children)

    She has had sex with more guys than she admitted to me, I found like 10 different stories, at least

    Before I met JacquesNicoleSonne, I never thought I would find someone as good as my ex regarding sex and cuddles. Now that I’ve found him, I know I can find another

    This is what inability to pair bond looks like. You are about as vital to her as that expensive purse or her favorite pair of designer shoes.

    [–]JacquesNicoleSonne[S] 44 points45 points  (88 children)

    In a way, that's good?

    I don't want her to depend on me because I don't depend on her. But there's one thing to think it and another to say it.

    [–]TRP VanguardHumanSockPuppet 196 points197 points  (73 children)

    This is what inability to pair bond looks like.

    In a way, that's good?

    It depends on what you want.

    Here's another Red Pill for you - take this one with a big glass of water:

    The only way a woman will remain faithful to you is if she believes that her well-being depends upon your sticking around.

    The corollary to Briffault's Law is that a woman will continue to associate herself with you if she believes that you provide her with some survival advantage that is too important to risk losing. This is the ONLY way to guarantee faithfulness in a relationship.

    If you want your woman to remain faithful, she must feel inferior to and dependent upon you.

    Why do you think casual sexism was so rampant in the past? It was society's collective method for keeping women's self-esteem low so that they would remain faithful to their husbands.

    [–]Oz70NYC 32 points33 points  (1 child)

    I'm currently in the beginnings of a LTR...I guess. Not really sure. She's an HB7. Cute Hispanic girl. Late 20s, pretty face but not super model. A little weight to her (about 5'6" 160lbs) but "she got a donk"...and I like big butts...I can not lie.

    Anyway, at first she was just a plate. Another chick I met on Tindr. But she started to grow on me, and I allowed her to stick around. That's when she realized I was more then an awesome fuck for her. Naturally if I'm striving to achieve more in life for myself, I surround myself with people of the same ilk. She came to see she could gain more socially from me. I introduce her to more experiences. Better social circles. Stuff way more valuable then money.

    Her view of me changed in the fact that I brought substance and purpose to her life. She knows she's just along for the ride though, so she stays in line because she can easily be replaced. A fact that has come up in convo.

    Her: Why do you have so many female friends?

    Me: Same reason Jay Leno has so many cars. I never know which one I might wanna ride next.

    Part of me wants to LTR her, the other part wants to toy around with her and see if she breaks. But yes...the definitive way to keep a woman is to establish she has no power of you. It's a privilege for her to be with you, not vice versa.

    [–]JacquesNicoleSonne[S] 48 points49 points  (18 children)

    The only way a woman will remain faithful to you is if she believes that her well-being depends upon your sticking around.

    I'll have to let that sink in, thanks for sharing this powerful quote man

    [–]Endorsed Contributorsqerl 32 points33 points  (0 children)

    The only way a woman will remain faithful to you is if she believes that her well-being depends upon your sticking around.

    I'll have to let that sink in, thanks for sharing this powerful quote man

    For those contemplating marriage or ultimately having a kid, remember: "no fault divorce"

    The day she decides not to be faithful anymore, the law is in her favor to ensure you're on the hook for her well-being.

    [–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (4 children)

    I argue you can give the same feeling, abundance and DGAF triggers similar emotions.

    Since we can't get tigers to roam the streets, and she can earn her own money, you no longer need to be a high earner, or strong man. Yet still, they are attracted to them.

    You can hit the self esteem, without beating it down, simply by acting and being high value enough for pre selection on the regular. It triggers the same thing

    [–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (3 children)

    You are confusing the qualities that keep a woman attracted with the qualities that keep her faithful.

    She has to think you will find out and dump her and give no fux or she will cheat with lesser males.

    A man cant just relax

    [–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (2 children)

    Does op want a wife? It sounds like she got demoted to live in plate. What does he care if shes faithful now?

    Maybe a pregnancy, but thats outside this discussion. Unless hes added on, it sounds like hes gonna fuck her for as long as he wants, and when she pushes for more cut her loose.

    Am i misreading his answers?

    [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    no idea, I was speaking generally.

    If OP does marry at least he knows what he is getting into and more importantly he can decide what a woman can actually provide

    [–]theONE843663 17 points18 points  (10 children)

    The only way a woman will remain faithful is if you get a virgin that perceives herself to be at least 3 points lower than you in SMV.

    [–]BoalG 18 points19 points  (0 children)

    That's conjecture, not fact... But also not far from a hard truth. Have an upvote.

    [–]1empatheticapathetic 5 points6 points  (6 children)

    In my experience virgins are more hyped to ride the CC more than anyone else.

    [–]theONE843663 3 points4 points  (5 children)

    Okay bro I figured this shit out. Only possible way is that if you get a virgin that is blind. That'll work for sure. And virgins raised properly tho not your average 16 year old.

    [–]∞ Mod | RP Vanguardbsutansalt 11 points12 points  (2 children)

    Why do you think casual sexism was so rampant in the past? It was society's collective method for keeping women's self-esteem low so that they would remain faithful to their husbands.

    Huh. Interesting observation. This literally explains Islam.

    [–]dRePe_Thill 18 points19 points  (13 children)

    Took that with a glass of water then followed it with cranberry juice. "If you want your woman to remain faithful, she must feel inferior to and dependent upon you."

    I liked the quote above, and I break it into two components the "inferior" part and "dependent" part. I'll start with dependent, this is fairly straightforward as it aligns with provisioning, and I think of it as material/external things.

    The "she must feel inferior" part I believe is the start of how we frame her mindset with the psychology trp has taught us. Nevertheless, this starts to enter the realm of the dark triad which can be savage (just like hypergamy).

    My personal issue and maybe other RPers is that the moral hump proves to be a challenge. My thoughts are that it would be tough to find that balance of what it would take to make her feel inferior(sweet spot) with out over doing it and being an abusive asshole. Do you have experience in this area?

    [–]TangoZulu 31 points32 points  (3 children)

    Don't overthink the "she must feel inferior" thing. All it is really saying is that she must believe that your SMV is higher than hers. You don't have to pull some emotionally abusive dark triad shit for that. Just follow TRP and keep improving yourself in the process.

    [–]yomo86 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Tend to digress. Men with higher SMV than mine or yours are abundant no matter how hard I work out or slay the money making dragon. So she really has to be dependent to some degree.

    [–]TRP VanguardHumanSockPuppet 41 points42 points  (6 children)

    First, let me address the notion of "abuse".

    The definition of abuse has expanded in recent decades (mostly by SJWs) to include anything that doesn't prop up women's self-esteem (even undeservedly). You need reject this definition outright.

    Abuse should be construed as any exchange where one person is the sole beneficiary, and the other is the sole loser.

    In an effective and sustainable relationship, a woman is paying for your leadership with subservience and obedience. In order to do this, she must abandon all notion that she can be a "strong independent womahn who don need no mahn". This paradigm doesn't qualify as abuse because she is benefiting from your guidance, and paying a fair and necessary price for it.

    That being said, the answer to your moral conundrum is simple: as long as she is attracted to you, she will never see you as an abusive asshole. Her hamster will re-interpret all of your behaviours in a favourable light.

    He's not demanding. He's discerning.

    He's not domineering. He's leading.

    He's not condescending. He's pointing out my weaknesses and guiding me.

    The real trick is convincing everyone else who sees you interact with her that you're not abusing her. Nowadays people are drinking SJW Kool-Aid by the gallon, so you must achieve this by making your superiority look like harmless fun. And you achieve that by being comical and teasing her playfully.

    Check out my Guide to Teasing Bitches for more info on how to do this.

    [–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (2 children)

    Lol, he still loves me, I just do such stupid things sometimes.

    [–]TRP VanguardHumanSockPuppet 20 points21 points  (1 child)

    "I still love you, boo. Now go do the laundry before I fuck your best friend."

    (fuck her best friend while she does the laundry)

    [–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (1 child)

    No need to play mind games if you ARE superior to her. If you have your shit together in life then she stays. It is not all about muscle, that provides tingles but a man who is successful in his mission is a keeper to a woman. No mind games required, focus on your mission, own your shit and the bitches just can't get enough

    [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

    but but but.. what about true love?

    [–]TRP VanguardHumanSockPuppet 4 points5 points  (1 child)

    Don't worry, /u/SirGaetanDugas. I wuv you.

    [–]TsuGhoul 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    The only way a woman will remain faithful to you is if she believes that her well-being depends upon your sticking around.

    Is this even possible nowadays with no-fault divorce?

    [–]TRP VanguardHumanSockPuppet 7 points8 points  (0 children)

    Nigga we're talking about how to keep a bitch enthralled by you.

    Marriage is the exact opposite of that.

    [–]1FunAndFreedom 13 points14 points  (5 children)

    Here's the problem, life is full of bullshit and heavy seas are inevitable. Even if you have money there are events in your life that will rock your boat hard. If you happen to have a woman along for the ride you're going to want to know she is going to be there for you when the bullshit comes, that's where pair bonding comes in. Pair bonding is the glue that keeps two people together when it would be more convenient for one partner to abandon the other. And for some reason women lose the ability to pair bond very quickly.

    A woman who has been fucked and chucked multiple times is going to have a chance of divorcing you that's higher that 50%, a woman who is a virgin is going to have a 5% chance of divorcing you. That's the power of pair bonding. Now if you never want to marry or have a committed relationship this is no big deal, in fact it's preferable to fuck&chuck because you can always trade an aging woman for a younger one.

    However for society, this is a horrible bargain. Without committed relationships (e.g. marriage) there is no incentive for men to work. Society needs to adjust to a lower standard of living. The reason we can get cheap food and find willing workers for our businesses is that most of the people producing in our countries are doing so for the benefit of their families. If you want to see what society without men look like go to the inner cities of America (or Northern France if you're a Frenchman)

    [–]Dystaxia 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    I'm going to play devil's advocate with this one.

    Is there really a difference? Why is it alright to think something yet be condemned to express it?

    [–]TRP VanguardArchwinger 172 points173 points  (63 children)

    Every so often, I ask my wife something uncomfortable that I know the answer to just to see what she says. I never get the unabridged truth, just the parts she wants me to know.

    I do it to watch her make perfect eye contact. Speak promptly and without hesitation. With a perfectly normal and unwavering voice, with no unusual inflections. It's important to remind myself how good of a liar she is, and how quickly and easily she lies to me about completely trivial things. That way, I don't feel bad about never trusting her and always checking up.

    I've found the same practices to be prevalent in female coworkers and among female friends. Women lie about stupid shit. Not even important shit. Just to look smarter or more informed. Just to avoid looking socially iffy. Or for no reason. And they do it so often and so easily that lies sound just like normal speech. If you don't know the answer before you ask the question, you would never have any clue you're being lied to.

    [–]Endorsed Contributorvandaalen 40 points41 points  (47 children)

    Every so often, I ask my wife something uncomfortable that I know the answer to just to see what she says. I never get the unabridged truth, just the parts she wants me to know.

    I'd really like to read an example for your question and her answer.

    [–]TRP VanguardArchwinger 162 points163 points  (45 children)

    Here’s a really elaborate example where I had some fun with her:

    This one time, we had weekend plans coming up in about two weeks. They’d been on the books for several months. I find out that one of my wife’s favorite musicians is doing a concert that same night, tickets went on sale about a month ago, and the very day they went on sale, my wife went online and bought three tickets, with the intention of asking a few of her friends to go with her. She figured if she only found one person, she could just sell the extra ticket. So she started going down her friend list, and before the end of the day, she had two people going with her, and they’d booked a hotel close to the venue that night. She never breathed a word about this to me.

    So a month after she purchased tickets, I remind her about our upcoming plans in two weeks and tell her how excited I am about them. She looks me in the eye unwaveringly, smiles, and says me, too.

    The next day, she sits me down and says that just today, she talked with [friend’s name], and there’s this really awesome concert that same weekend, a couple of her friends are going, and someone they invited had to cancel. So they have an extra ticket, invited her, and she really wants to go. She has a lot of friends, so she gets invited to stuff all the time – at least I think she does. She could be lying every time for all I know. So it’s not an unusual type of story for her to tell. But in this case (hell, maybe in every single case), she’d been planning to cancel our plans for weeks, but was waiting until closer to the date so she could spin a tale about something suddenly coming up.

    Since I knew the situation – that’s the very reason I brought up our upcoming plans the day before – I tell her no, we already have plans. And now, apparently, I’m supposed to change my plans to babysit our kid that night while she goes to a concert and spends the night in a hotel with her girlfriends. I toss in, just for fun, that I know how expensive tickets to this show are and we shouldn’t waste the money (that she already spent). I just wanted to see what she’d do.

    She, of course, goes ape shit and starts screaming about how she never gets to do anything fun with her friends, I always get what I want, I’m controlling, unfair, thoughtless, and she begins bringing up her usual laundry list of everything I’ve ever done wrong. This was a calculated move on her part. She needed to pick a fight and act really angry because she had already bought the tickets. She then used her feigned anger so she could end the conversation by telling me that she’s going to go anyway, regardless of what I say.

    So there was another outing she had planned with a different group of friends a few weeks after that – that she also hadn’t mentioned to me yet or put on the family calendar. We didn’t have plans that day, but just for fun, I told her the next day that I had rescheduled our previous plans to that date. She said that was fine.

    She then began texting every one of her friends she was supposed to meet that day to tell them that “Archwinger is being an ass” about the fact that she was going to meet them that night (even though I didn’t officially know she had plans - she hadn't told me). She also threw in that “he never lets me do anything” but that “it isn’t worth the fight” for her to go.

    So get this. I modify our plans so that we’re going to the same place she was going to go with her friends and tell her, “Guess what. I was online and saw that they’re doing [event] at [place] on [date]. So I got us a reservation there after we do [first plans].” She said that was great. Didn’t bat an eye or mention that she was even aware of the event. She then texted all of her friends to tell them “OMG. Archwinger is taking me to [event] now” and not to say anything about to me about the previous plans they’d made with her.

    So then, I mention that we haven’t had a game night in a few weeks, and we invite some friends over the next weekend. And I mention to her friends that we’re doing [event] next weekend. Her friends are equally good at the lying game, and without batting an eye, respond, “Really? So are we! We might see you guys there!”

    [–]Endorsed Contributorvandaalen 60 points61 points  (6 children)

    This is way juicier than I expected. Thanks for the amusement.

    Every newbie reading this, take notes. Especially the following paragraph is important and a lesson in reading women:

    She, of course, goes ape shit and starts screaming about how she never gets to do anything fun with her friends, I always get what I want, I’m controlling, unfair, thoughtless, and she begins bringing up her usual laundry list of everything I’ve ever done wrong. This was a calculated move on her part. She needed to pick a fight and act really angry because she had already bought the tickets. She then used her feigned anger so she could end the conversation by telling me that she’s going to go anyway, regardless of what I say.

    A woman creating unecessary drama should always ring your bells. She fucked up in some way and she is in desperate need to feed her hamster some plausible deniability for the reasons why she did it.

    She urgently needs to rewrite history in her mind and in order to be able to do so, she needs to provoke a negative reaction from you. "He is an asshole anyways!"

    The more she seems to be pressing towards you loosing frame and yourself and maybe even getting physical, the more you should be alarmed and the more sober you should be observing the situation and start digging for the truth.

    Some stinky shit maybe waiting for you. Search for trickle truth here.

    [–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

    She then used her feigned anger so she could end the conversation by telling me that she’s going to go anyway, regardless of what I say.

    While she's doing it she's actually convinced herself that her lies are the truth.

    [–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (2 children)

    She urgently needs to rewrite history in her mind and in order to be able to do so, she needs to provoke a negative reaction from you. "He is an asshole anyways!"

    This hit me really hard. Because I had a woman calling me hot multiple times who later friendzoned me and said she was never attracted to me, and she later went on to project and say I was just rewriting the history of everything that happened. We went from having really long conversations talking everyday and her talking about mailing me her cooking to her never wanting to talk to me again. I'm still healing from the gaslighting now that I know for sure it happened after finding some evidence from the messages I didn't delete, after having a total nervous breakdown and just deleting everything and feeling like I had been talking to a ghost for months and none of it mattered, it was all fake in the sense that it all ended like nothing ever happened.

    Be yourself and you're an unattractive "beta" loser, I'd rather do that because I find it easier to be myself than the burden of being someone I'm not, but I know if I want a good, drama-free life the chances are I have to do it single and alone.

    [–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

    You will never get the truth out of a woman.

    [–]Senior Contributordr_warlock 38 points39 points  (9 children)

    The bigger question is, why do you deal with this crap?

    [–]TRP VanguardArchwinger 105 points106 points  (8 children)

    Mostly the kid.

    We've come a long way. Gone from monthly duty sex and constant fighting to maybe twice a week sex except on shark week and one outburst a month that's over within a day.

    I don't think things will ever be 100% awesome. I married my wife pre-red pill. She's seen me scrawny, jobless, struggling, and spent years watching me fold laundry and constantly seek her approval and permission for shit. It doesn't really matter how much I improve or who I become. She's not going to forget the guy I was and magically trust in my badass leadership. She knows I'm just a normal guy who's acting awesome, not an actual awesome guy, because she's seen the transformation. In girl world, guys who are actually awesome don't have to work at it.

    My wife's not that special. She has some very awesome traits, and some very shitty traits. The guy I am today would never have married her. Probably never even noticed her, actually. I'm not really trying to turn her into the love of my life, just keep the sex coming and keep her doing useful shit and not fucking anything up.

    But my daughter is awesomely special. She's the one I have crazy oneitis for and couldn't bear to lose. Don't tell my wife, though, or she'll try to use that against me.

    [–][deleted] 26 points27 points  (0 children)

    Im with you bro. Things are good now with wife, not GR8

    I got my kids living with me and raising em my way.

    If it ends, I'm fine. If it goes til empty nest, thats cool too.

    After that? All bets are off but there could be a very fit 50 something guy crushing poon in Hawaii

    [–]smirk_addict 17 points18 points  (0 children)

    That was some of the realist and profound shit I've ever read here. You're the best version of yourself and you've made the best out what sounds like what was the worse relationship dynamic a man could ever have. I always enjoy your post, but no one can say you had it easy. So much respect for you.

    [–]kaane 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    WOW! This is the kind of advice from someone who lived and learned.

    I guess what you are describing is "husband goggles". But it works the opposite of wife goggles. Once a woman sees you in your lowest, she will always remember that. The lesson I learned from your "hard earned experience" is that you have to deliver constantly above a certain level. Yes sometimes life hits us hard, and sometimes it is really hard to keep your spirit up, but than again, the idea of someone loving you unconditionally was a blue pill fairy tale, right ?

    [–][deleted] 18 points19 points  (0 children)

    arch, you never don't deliver on shit

    [–]smirk_addict 12 points13 points  (2 children)

    What exactly did you see in a woman like this that made you want to marry her?

    [–]logicalthinker1 11 points12 points  (1 child)

    Don't play games, women feed off of drama. Just put your foot down. They want an argument. Just say, "we made plans, tough shit." When she yells and screams, don't respond in kind. Just firmly say, "this isn't a negotiation, this fight is over," and walk away.

    Let them wear themselves out and yell. Ignore them.

    [–]Cartz1209 10 points11 points  (6 children)

    Damn... this was depressing!

    I don't know if I could master the willpower to hold it in and not just rub it all in her face before kicking her to the curb!

    For sure I wouldn't trust her... that night in the hotel with her friends... I can only wonder if they slept alone.

    Similar story, a girl I dated told me about her friend, this girl that was in a relationship with the same guy since forever. Anyway, every year she would go on vacations with a couple of girlfriends with the sole purpose of riding new dick! All in LTR, all with the excuse of "girls' time", would leave their boyfriends behind and just burn as much rubber as they could. Every year!

    [–]TRP VanguardArchwinger 23 points24 points  (5 children)

    I don't sweat too much about my wife cheating. She's probably not, but maybe she is.

    She's as smart as I am. If she really, really wants to cheat on me and really, really wants to get away with it, she's doing it, and I would never have a clue.

    I can lay awake all night shitting my pants worrying about something that might not be happening, and if it is I'd never find out for sure anyway, or I can just sleep soundly and hit the gym in the morning, go to work, eat good food, and fuck my wife at night.

    [–]ManOfGrapes 15 points16 points  (1 child)

    Worthy of it's own post, imo.

    It's amazing how women can flip the narrative in mere seconds. I get this kind of shit all the time in my ltr, where magically things she can't do like see her family, be with friends at certain times when we've already made plans.. are 100% my fault in her mind. Thanks for the example.

    [–]LewisCross 6 points7 points  (0 children)

    What a story. Whenever I do this with Mrs. Cross, she fesses up or just smiles and laughs and comes completely clean (I think).

    It's just a reminder that if I am not vigilant, i'll never know when I am being lied to.

    [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (2 children)

    An ex and I were watching a TV show where a big part of the plot revolved around this character's lie (he was supposedly a scientist). Well, it was cast as the truth at first, but then revealed that a big part of show was based on a lie.

    I saw the plot clues it was a lie and called out that he was lying and that in that situation I would have figured it out by now.

    I suspected my ex was a pretty big liar due to inconsistencies and such.

    My ex said "I don't know, some people are pretty convincing in their lies."

    I turned to her and said "all I would need to do is ask him about something relatively complex in a casual one day and then take careful note of his answer. I would then wait sometime and ask him the same question in a slightly different way and see if what he says matches the original. this works for all types of lies."

    My ex's response was to put her face in her hands and weep in front of my. It was very ominous.

    [–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

    I've done the same

    "Want to meet for lunch tomorrow babe"

    "Oh, I cant..something I cant get out of"

    I knew ahead of time what it was. Another guy. Maybe orbiter, Maybe not.

    "Oh yea? Whats that?"

    "Im helping at my daughters school with talent show prep"

    Bitch could pass a lie detector test and maybe enhanced interrogation. She believed every lying word she uttered

    [–]JacquesNicoleSonne[S] 24 points25 points  (0 children)

    Every so often, I ask my wife something uncomfortable that I know the answer to just to see what she says. I never get the unabridged truth, just the parts she wants me to know.

    Call me crazy, but I'm stealing this. It's a good cold shower I might need from times to times.

    [–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (2 children)

    This. I've done this with my current LTR. I'm amazed at how rock-solid she is when telling a lie. Props to her.

    Have you ever had this straight-faced behavior drive suspicion in you that she might be lying? Sometimes I feel too much/consistent eye contact is a flag.

    [–]TRP VanguardArchwinger 22 points23 points  (1 child)

    That's usually the best tell. Women don't normally make strong eye contact. Especially when dealing with a man they respect and admire.

    When a woman is staring at your eyes when she speaks, it's not confidence. It's one of two other things (or maybe both of them). It's either defiance or dishonesty. Most of the time, when she's staring into your eyes, she's either staring you down trying to get you to buckle, or she's searching your eyes for a reaction that will tell her how much you know or whether you know/suspect she's lying.

    [–]∞ Mod | RP Vanguardbsutansalt 6 points7 points  (1 child)

    It's important to remind myself how good of a liar she is, and how quickly and easily she lies to me about completely trivial things.

    Archwinger is Bill Clinton? ;)

    [–]NoFapMat 5 points6 points  (5 children)

    What really made the truth sink in for me was when I was having sex with a married woman (still do, see her ocassionally), and her husband called. We stopped having sex, she answered and they had a conversation.

    She was perfectly calm on the phone, sounded completely normal, and was rubbing my dick so that I don't go flaccid, the entire time having chit chat with her husband.

    Then they end the call, she tells him she loves him, hangs up, makes a joke about what a loser he is, and we go back to fucking.

    If i was on the other end of the phone, there is no way I'd catch even a suspicion that she lied about anything, not to mention that she's in bed with another man, rubbing his dick while she talks to you.

    [–]postreformedpua 108 points109 points  (15 children)

    Yeah you can see why Women are so secretive about the things they say in private because it is the harshest stuff you can imagine.

    My ex wife of seven years said to the guy she was trying to bone:

    "I wish I met you first"

    She literally rendered our whole time together null and void. Harsh.

    [–]JacquesNicoleSonne[S] 30 points31 points  (8 children)

    Do you think she actually thought it?

    Like, my ex said after we broke up that our sex life was meh. But during the sex life she said that I was good.

    Can they take everything back? Like they didn't mean it?

    Or are they just incapable of remembering the good they felt?

    [–]postreformedpua 112 points113 points  (0 children)

    I truly believe the only thing that is real to them is how they feel in the moment. It's preached a lot on here feels before reals.

    [–]Endorsed ContributorMentORPHEUS 31 points32 points  (3 children)

    Can they take everything back? Like they didn't mean it?

    Or are they just incapable of remembering the good they felt?

    u/RedPillSchool wrote a great article on this phenomenon: The light-switch effect.

    [–]lnTheRearWithTheGear 5 points6 points  (2 children)

    Good read. This is actually a phenomenon already documented as "splitting" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Splitting_(psychology).

    Notice the section on BPD...

    [–]RedPill115 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Problem with snooping is that you never know what these things mean. Girls spend a ton of time playing social positioning and positioning themselves for power games.

    Take the stereotypical friend zoned beta guy - he listens to what an "asshole" her boyfriend is, what a jerk he is, how the sex isn't even that great, etc. He makes a move, and she goes "I can't believe he thought he had a chance! I have a boyfriend!". Did she "really" think her boyfriend was an unworthy jerk?

    In software there's a saying "there's 2 kinds of languages - the kind people complain about, and the kind people don't use". You never know what her complaining actually means. Girls love to tell themselves and their girlfriends that they have tons of options and could leave at any time, then they never do. Sometimes one girl is having a rough time so the other girl tells her "oh, the sex is my boyfriend is super mediocre" to try to make her feel better. Or because she thinks her friend has an interest in you and wants to be like "he's terrible in the sack" so she won't go after you. Other times the girl says the sex was great because she's embarrassed that it was poor and wants to look good to her friend.

    It's like asking someone about their previous job in an interview, the correlation between their answer and what they actually think is very low. They just want to say the thing that gets them the job.

    [–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor 17 points18 points  (1 child)

    She literally rendered our whole time together null and void. Harsh.

    And the timer is already ticking on his turn with her too.

    [–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor 88 points89 points  (10 children)

    Everytime we had a fight

    Don't fight with women. There is no judge. There is no jury There is no deciding panel. She knows this which is why she runs to her friends; they become her stacked jury.

    Seriously, don't fucking fight. State your position. Allow her to state hers. Alter yours if it makes sense. Otherwise you are the rock. If she throws a tantrum, walk away. If she cranks it up, show her the door. Never put as much as a pinky on her. Do no raise your voice. Don't bring up shit from the past. Feel free to whip out your camera and take video of the tantrum; they make for good youtube uploads and I get a kick out of them.

    [–]Flatlamb 8 points9 points  (2 children)

    Doesn't this approach fail to appease the female need for drama? Won't that sink the ship anyway?

    [–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor 14 points15 points  (0 children)

    That's what the purpose of female friends. They swirl that shit among themselves. My cohabitating female (I've decided not to call her my wife any more--marriage has ceased to exist in modern society) loves to tell me all the bullshit that goes on in the hen groups. She doesn't expect me to give her advice or help out, in fact giving advice can get you in a bad place--part of the drama. She just wants to bounce it around in her head while sitting safely under my tree. Her mouth goes. My ears aren't any worse for the wear. She feels comfortable. All is well.

    [–]JacquesNicoleSonne[S] 13 points14 points  (6 children)

    Yeah...I don't know if you are 100% right tho.

    I like your "rock" vibe, but it seems very cold, robotic...Girls aren't the only one entitled to feelings, at least I think so! Fights happen between my peers when necessary, same with my women.

    [–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor 39 points40 points  (2 children)

    When you fight with men, there is something to win. It's a contest. When you fight with women, there is nothing to win. You are not going to convince them through argument to change their feelings. Only a change in environment (rock) or situation (leaving) will change their feelings.

    You are entitled to all the feelings you want. Just don't be surprised when people treat you differently because of it.

    [–]Elephaux 13 points14 points  (0 children)

    You can't logically argue someone out of a position that they didn't logically argue themselves into.

    [–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

    When you fight with men, it's with fists and it's over relatively quickly. When you debate with men, it's with facts and without all the shitty undertones. You cannot fight with women, not in any way. Not because you shouldnt or because it's wrong, but simply because you will not win, or even gain anything. If you fight a woman like you'd fight a man, you will get fucked by the long arm of the law. If you debate facts, well feelz before realz. They don't care about facts.

    Women are children. Treat them as such. Don't hit them, but instead put them in a corner for time out. If they don't like the rules under your roof, then they can move out.

    [–]∞ Mod | RP Vanguardbsutansalt[M] 13 points14 points  (2 children)

    By definition you cannot reason with someone who's being unreasonable. The only way you'll win an argument with women is if you can change how they feel. This could be about the source of the fight, how she feels about herself, or how she feels about you. There are a variety of options from kicking her out, ramping up dread, or my favorite...

    "How would you feel if..."

    That is my go-to for hijacking their emotional logic to do my bidding. It's saved me immeasurable frustration over the years as I stumbled onto this strategy after countless fights with a BPD bi-polar ex.

    [–]atomsk413 85 points86 points  (22 children)

    "Trust, but verify"

    Had an ex myself who couldn't decide her way out of a paperback unless she had her friends/sisters to encourage her. Strange what that group-think does to people.

    [–]JacquesNicoleSonne[S] 15 points16 points  (18 children)

    Why do you think it is that way? Personnality or gender?

    [–]dRePe_Thill 49 points50 points  (11 children)

    Definitely have seen this in women more, I associate it with attention seeking and validation, depending on the case. There also could be a lack of confidence, maybe she doesn't know if she's making the right choice.

    I am no nostradamus, but the quote where you describe that she resorts to her friend to discuss breaking up with you is troubling. I see this playing out one day, she'll meet a guy then there will be an argument, she'll run back to her FB friends. She'll exaggerate the argument, paint you as the bad, they'll give her the greenlight and use it as a justifiable means to pursue other options.

    With your redpill knowledge and this new information, I'm curious, why would you not plate this girl? To me this would come across as too many red flag and I wouldn't want to invest more.

    [–]Senior Contributordr_warlock 13 points14 points  (0 children)

    She'll exaggerate the argument, paint you as the bad, they'll give her the greenlight and use it as a justifiable means to pursue other options.

    This is why you should never act on a woman's testimony. It's either bullshit for victim points or a shit test.

    [–]JacquesNicoleSonne[S] 9 points10 points  (7 children)

    If she dumps me, so be it. I'll be ready for the next chapter of my life.

    Maybe that's because I see potential in her, maybe just pure lazyness, maybe the fact that I just want someone to watch Game of Thrones with and no spinning plates or anything, maybe a mix of all these reasons, but I'm not changing anything to how I see her.

    I mean, I knew before that she could behave like that, I just had the proof handed to me by some God's joke.

    As well, as long as the ride is going, I'm going to enjoy it. Everything is a bonus for the next chapter of my life, may it come in 5, 55 or 555 months.

    [–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (5 children)

    I just want someone to watch Game of Thrones with

    You do realize that there are guys who watch Game of Thrones. This isn't a good reason.

    [–]JacquesNicoleSonne[S] 9 points10 points  (4 children)

    Well I'm not gay so not the same!

    [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    Well yeah, but I live with roommates and we watch certain TV shows like It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia. I watch sports with some buddies of mine.

    [–]TheRedStoic 22 points23 points  (1 child)

    Women survive on social influence. I presume this is mostly nature because of the need of support through childbirth, and partially nurture due to the society they're raised in and how badly it enforces women are wonderful complex. This means every decision is a social decision. How anyone who even hears or guesses it happened matters because they could lose influence or support.

    Just for an example a plate of mine went shopping for new years gear, "new toys for the bedroom", it wasn't until after I found out that was a girls thing. She and 3 friends went out and helped each other choose things for each other's guys. This is normal apparently. It's all group mentality.

    Of course there are exceptions to the rule, but IME it never breaks the rule or discredits it. It just gets in the way if you're not a strong leader, as their friends will tell her what you want instead of her focusing on what you actually want. I think the most amusing case of it was a girl I had asking her girlfriends what to cook for my birthday. "As. If. They. Could. Know." They're all horrible cooks except mine, and yet she still needed their input. Probably tied to humble bragging too I guess, just to constantly remind/advertise that she's got someone high value, at least in her mind.

    It's that simple. Must be a horrible way to survive but hey, the human race is still here and bitches still trippin

    [–]TangoZulu 8 points9 points  (0 children)

    This is a great reply, but part of it is also that making the tough decision puts the crosshairs directly on them if they are wrong. Group think not only protects their social standing but also provides plausible deniability and way to dodge consequences down the road. It's not her fault if she can say that everyone agreed that she was making the right decision.

    [–]epubliusrex 8 points9 points  (0 children)

    Gender. It's what they do. Although the truly smart ones leave high school behind, most do not. Are you forgetting the pyramid? Socs at the top, clueless in the middle and losers at the bottom? Losers all engage in group think. Learning to control the group think message to your advantage is key to success in life.

    [–]∞ Mod | RP Vanguardbsutansalt[M] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

    First, women need attention and validation. Who better to get it from than their friends and orbiters?

    Second, women are creatures of conformity. They actually value conformity pretty highly as demonstrated in academic studies of the subject. Personally I think this is a large contributing factor to why women frequently devolve into groupthink and make up a disproportional amount of the left side of the political spectrum.

    Furthermore, women have always bunched together in the middle of the bell curve in all aspects of humanity, whereas guys make up the lion's share of the outliers both for good and for bad. This conformity mentality is likely ingrained into them from good old evolution, possibly as a survival instinct/strategy.

    [–]klgdmfr 75 points76 points  (28 children)

    I've snooped.

    I've snooped because I just LOVE me some verification to my suspicions.

    I've not been disappointed... once.

    Damnit, if we could just read all of our ex's texts/chat logs/emails... what we would all find... one can only imagine.

    [–]JacquesNicoleSonne[S] 14 points15 points  (0 children)

    Words and stories written in such ways you could swear they are not about you.

    [–][deleted] 51 points52 points  (12 children)

    I am torn on snooping. IF you find nothing...you are an insecure little bitch. If you find something youre an insecure little bitch dating a whore.

    I have moved on from snooping and if I feel the urge to snoop I just next the girl ghost style.

    [–]Buchloe 34 points35 points  (3 children)

    I don't see how you have to be insecure. It's just objective data The most useful thing there is. The more in line you are with reality, the better, and that shit is pure unaltered truth. Keeps you from living in a fantasy

    [–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (2 children)

    I understand what you're saying but I have a different philosophy. If I feel the need to check that means the relationship is over already for me.

    [–]DisagreeableMale 11 points12 points  (0 children)

    Disagree. If you feel the need to check, you may be paranoid, however, that doesn't mean you're unfounded or the relationship is over. If you find nothing, maybe re-calibrate what your suspicions are. If you find something, you're on point and don't change. People are too comfortable relying on what they think others don't know about them. It's time to put those people in check.

    [–]demolpolis 6 points7 points  (0 children)

    Ehhhh.

    If you trust your SO 100%, you are really doing it wrong.

    That isn't a red pill thing... that is just a life thing when dealing with people.

    [–]∞ Mod | RP Vanguardbsutansalt 8 points9 points  (2 children)

    Appearance of impropriety.

    Women do not have to actually have cheat, but do things that are suspect. Once that suspicion is seeded it's all downhill from there. THAT is how important fidelity is, which is maintained by a steadfast avoidance of the appearance of impropriety.

    [–]JacquesNicoleSonne[S] 12 points13 points  (1 child)

    Yeah, I get you.

    I was not actively looking if that makes any difference, it was more of a lucky accident...

    [–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

    right. "Hey dont press this red button"

    Clearly Im gonna press the red button.

    [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (6 children)

    the Keylogger is a must read

    [–]Buchloe 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    Fuck man, gotta look after yourself imo. Know everything you can, don't make assumptions. Take those red pills and align with reality

    [–]Endorsed ContributorMeat-on-the-table 22 points23 points  (3 children)

    Your detachment from this whole experience is admirable. I imagine your beta instincts would have been to confront her about, whereupon she would've turned the situation around on you for snooping. The fact that this simply reaffirms your ability to walk away and the truth about hypergamy means you've made significant progress.

    For those who haven't read it, this is the ultimate example of detachment from a woman's bullshit.

    [–]JacquesNicoleSonne[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

    Thanks a lot :)

    Buddhism to some extent helps a bit. I am not angry at what I can't control, I just enjoy the present.

    The glass is already broken :)

    [–]themanbat 70 points71 points  (12 children)

    To each his own, but I don't sweat dropping an L bomb on girls anymore. When young, guys often have idealistic views of love, and feel its incredibly important not to say, "I love you," unless its some kind of deep admission of an eternal truth. Relax guys. You probably love ice cream, certain movies, books, and games. If you say you love Lord of the Rings, that doesn't mean you don't love Star Wars. When a girl says she loves me, if I like her, and I want to see her again I say it back. It's that simple. Love is just a stronger than average like. Saying it doesn't somehow give women power over you, anymore than saying it about your favorite ice cream. And it avoids a shit load of drama, and makes her feel comfortable in investing in you emotionally. If you want her to invest, don't say it first, but say it back.

    [–]JacquesNicoleSonne[S] 34 points35 points  (0 children)

    Love is just a stronger than average like.

    If you want her to invest, don't say it first, but say it back.

    I expected to teach all of you something, and still I'm the one learning new stuff. I like your refreshing point of view on the L word, I like it a lot! Thanks!

    [–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (1 child)

    That's not what the 16 commandments of poon says. - nevermind didn't get to your last sentence.

    [–][deleted]  (11 children)

    [deleted]

    [–]JacquesNicoleSonne[S] 15 points16 points  (9 children)

    My honor is not attached to any other person than me. She doesn't treat me bad, or disrespect me. In a sense, she is just being a woman. As I'm being a man when I check out girls or masturbate from times to times.

    Can't blame her for that really.

    [–][deleted]  (5 children)

    [deleted]

      [–][deleted] 27 points28 points  (4 children)

      What he does with the info is on him. He kept his mouth shut, and didn't give her a headsup to hide things better.

      Thats the smart play.

      [–]HS-Thompson 14 points15 points  (4 children)

      I mean I know this is a truly sad truth but if you went through her messages and didn't find any evidence of cheating or almost cheating or I can't believe I let that guy kiss me or flirty exchanges with a backup plan guy she's probably in the top 10% of women.

      [–]askmrcia 13 points14 points  (4 children)

      You're always going to be compared to her exes and you're never going to be enough to keep her satisfied.

      The most interesting and important thing about all of this was she only stated your flaws like you're supposed to be some perfect Greek god.

      What did she bring to the table? I guess she thinks she the most perfect woman in the world because her social media followers tell her so.

      And yes, women's friends can be the worse for any relationship and they always get bad advice from their friends. One time I was with my ex and her friend. Her friend talked how she went through a slut phase in her twenties where she would sleep with guys and not call them back. Literally bragging about it.

      The bitch was in her 30s fat as hell now, but the fact that she was telling my ex that while I was there lead me to Believe that they shared worse conversations. No surprise we broke up three weeks later. Good luck man

      [–]JacquesNicoleSonne[S] 4 points5 points  (3 children)

      You're always going to be compared to her exes and you're never going to be enough to keep her satisfied.

      True that. There will always be someone more alpha, taller than me, smarter etc.

      I don't care, I just can't care anymore. The truth is I'm fighting the biggest of fight, the fight within :)

      [–]yummyluckycharms 15 points16 points  (1 child)

      Irony: guy says that he's not blue pill and that he's good at reading people.

      But then doesnt realize that his gf isnt sexually attractive to him, is dead emotionally about him, still talks to her ex, and still wont dump the gf.

      Like WTF people....are cucks multiplying now?

      [–]chambertlo 66 points67 points  (14 children)

      Dude, a Masters degree does not indicate that a person is intelligent in any way. All it does is prove that a person did the work required, and met the sufficient criteria to obtain that degree. It has nothing to do with intelligence.

      [–]goldnhorde 27 points28 points  (6 children)

      Masters or even a doctorate if not a receipt of intelligence.

      first, the education bar has been lowered ... and lowered again. I find myself talking to far too many educated idiots these days. and the younger, the more stupid, and I do not mean naïve, I mean stupid ... like a sack of rocks could beat them at tic tac toe.

      [–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (3 children)

      The worst part is (and I got out of college in 2014, before it became completely pussified) that you are forced to take many classes that have nothing to do with your major.

      I majored in finance and accounting and there were classes that were honestly, a waste of time. Also, test taking which is how you are graded, does not truly indicate how much you know the material. It just shows how much you can memorize.

      [–]_cumulus_ 6 points7 points  (1 child)

      It just shows how much you can memorize.

      Temporarily memorize at that. Cumulative finals are a rarity in 20xx, because too many kids failed. The thought being, if they fail too much then they drop out, and if they drop out we're not getting paid.

      2014 it was pretty thoroughly pussified. That doesn't mean that you partook, because it seems that you didn't. Finance and accounting have other problems, namely the amount of shit you have to do by hand to "learn it" but in reality is 100% software.

      Congrats on picking a worthwhile major though, some aren't grounded in reality enough at 16-17 to make a good choice.

      [–]curiously_crazy 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      TR makes it sound like 2014 was eons ago.

      You on the other hand are correct but take out the 'pretty' from "2014 it was pretty thoroughly pussified" US uni's have been thoroughly pussified since at least 2005.

      I speak as one who obtained a degree in the mid 90's and then a second in 2004. The difference was like night and day.

      [–]JacquesNicoleSonne[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

      I know...I just liked that echo chamber :)

      [–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

      Some people are praising you but all I see is weakness.

      You won't leave her? Ok, but this is a LTR and most LTRs have Red Flags. She's shown you plenty, and she's shown that she can lie to your face about it. These signs of disrespect, that she doesn't think you're the fucking king, and this isn't something that you should just be ok with. If you want a LTR, find a better girl. Have whatever fun you want with this one but from now on she is not your girlfriend and never will be.

      Your problem is that it took her words to motivate you to go to the gym, better yourself, but I see none of that coming from within. Nothing to motivate yourself as a man, like some sort of attachment to the words of a woman.

      Just how much attachment do you have to her? Your male hamster is spinning. Wake up cause you're still sleeping.

      [–]TyrannyVengeance 21 points22 points  (4 children)

      Jesus Christ plate this dumb cunt already. This post is literally the definition of lost frame, lack of abundance mentality, and lack of options.

      Options are frame. Plate plate plate!

      [–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (1 child)

      Good post, thelse situations can have a tendency not to feel real until it happens to you personally so I think your mindset is gonna improve substantially.

      Funny how these things motivate us

      [–]JacquesNicoleSonne[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

      My main motivation to post this here. It's not just for the others!

      [–]1GroundhogLiberator 9 points10 points  (1 child)

      I had trouble saying « I love you », thanks to you guys I guess. I dont know what love is anymore, so I had to wait a year to say it, not to lie to her or just « say it ». Anyway. It was kind of a sensible topic because she said it first and I pulled a Han Solo (hardcore unvolontary dread, the best). The day I told her back she seemed happy and everything, well apparently « it changed nothing » and « she didn’t feel the butterflies», according to a convo she had. Well, she is a good liar as well, I’ll give her that.

      I couldn't agree more. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if I never said "I love you" to a girl again.

      When you say you pulled a Han Solo, did you mean that you just said: "I know."?

      [–]JacquesNicoleSonne[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

      It was even worse I'd say, I said somehting like "Thanks"

      [–]user_none 10 points11 points  (1 child)

      Before I met JacquesNicoleSonne, I never thought I would find someone as good as my ex regarding sex and cuddles. Now that I’ve found him, I know I can find another.

      Oneitis crusher right there. Once I realized whichever girl really wasn't the best in whatever category, and another could easily supplant her, the pedestal fell. The flip side to that is, it's more difficult to bond with a good woman.

      [–]JacquesNicoleSonne[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

      And if it's the case that there are no good women left, so be it :)

      [–]LewisCross 8 points9 points  (1 child)

      Well, now you know the truth.

      Don't marry her. The messaging the ex she's "just talking to" is bullshit. There's a lot, A LOT, more than talking going on there. Just be aware of that.

      [–]mugsaucecity 27 points28 points  (2 children)

      I also add that I’m generally pretty, pretty good at reading people

      I don't trust anyone that says this haha

      [–]JacquesNicoleSonne[S] 10 points11 points  (1 child)

      You might be right after all!

      [–]Endorsed Contributorvandaalen 4 points5 points  (0 children)

      Maybe he is just pretty, pretty good at reading people...

      [–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (3 children)

      You dated a chick that rode the CC, has a huge network of friends/ex's that she communicates with more than you, and has a career she cares about more than you and you are surprised at the outcome? If you try to LTR a woman that doesn't need you then don't be surprised when they...don't need you in the end.

      [–]JacquesNicoleSonne[S] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

      Wow, loads of assumptions here :)

      Between her and me, I'm the most advanced career-wise.

      OF course she talks to them more than me, I'm not her girlfriend. We do stuff, she talks with other people.

      The same goes when I want to talk about things that matter (politics, science, religion, news..). I don't call her for that, I have friends :)

      [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

      I didn't assume anything. You said it yourself. It doesn't matter if you have a better career. The fact that she has one at all will seriously diminish your worth to her. At the end of the day, she wants that ex's dick and not yours. Seems like you need to cut this one off before it gets worse. Good luck.

      [–]Returnofthemack3 8 points9 points  (0 children)

      people always tell you that snooping is wrong and that you're being overly paranoid, yet almost every guy I know that has snooped, soon found that his worst suspicions were correct. It's hilarious to me. If something seems suspicious and you have that feeling in your gut, trust it. The chances of it being true are incredibly high. How can you 'break trust', when there wasn't real trust to begin with? Ponder on that

      In today's world, with all the social media and dating apps, you should almost assume something guilty is going on. At best she's only talking to a few back up options, at worst she's literally planning the next fuck session with Chad. Don't delude yourself

      [–]1redpillthrowaway34 6 points7 points  (0 children)

      To your points:

      1. She can fuck 100 dicks as easily as you can eat a bag of potato chips. Don't worry, she's miserable deep down while she's doing it.

      2. Her ex-boyfriend showed that he didn't give a fuck about her by cheating on her. Unfortunately she liked it.

      [–]Mckallidon 23 points24 points  (1 child)

      Omg. Why the fuck would you waste time with this bitch? I would just try to get as far as possible sexually then dump.

      [–]JacquesNicoleSonne[S] 22 points23 points  (0 children)

      "Time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time" :)

      [–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (2 children)

      Enjoy the ride, yes. You could be having a much more self-respecting ride, though. You're in a manual Civic with a faulty camshaft. That MPG isn't going to go back up unless you invest to fix it, which is expensive. Wasting gas is expensive too and bad for the environment. It could be worse, it's still a car, it gets the job done, but why not sell it for a decent motorcycle that you enjoy and maintain that one? Still carries everything you need. Do you really have so much baggage that you need a car to store it in?

      Side note; Motorcycles are the shit and car metaphors are great.

      [–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (1 child)

      My motorcycle never woke up one morning and decided to let another dude ride it. I love my motorcycle way more than I will love any woman.

      [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      That hurts to hear. Yeah, I know the feel. Sucker for those 250's... wait, does that make me a pedo?

      [–]RedditAdminsSuck_88 43 points44 points  (9 children)

      I won’t dump her, as I really enjoy her company and the sex (yeah it goes both sides)

      So you continue to pedestalize her.

      Have some damn self respect dude. Absolutely pathetic

      [–]peterson2004 32 points33 points  (5 children)

      I have to agree. Women talking shit behind your back is disrespectful. Women will defend a man they idolize, and she is far from that.

      A proper ghosting would put you back on top.

      [–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (1 child)

      All women do this, alll. No exceptions.

      Ignore what she says, watch what she does. That emotion during the message no longer exists, but will exist again.

      you seem to think if you vet, you'll get someone who doesn't do this stuff... it's not called sometimes, it's called AWALT

      [–]JacquesNicoleSonne[S] 5 points6 points  (1 child)

      Well..No they won't.

      That's the point of this post. They will always find something to complain about. Enjoy the ride while it lasts.

      [–]JacquesNicoleSonne[S] 18 points19 points  (1 child)

      I don't pedestalize her. I know what I expect of her, and I know she won't deliver more. I like the blowjob and the cuddles (yeah fuck it, I'll say it) and that's about it. The rest is just "be-alpha" masturbation, in the end it doesn't change what I have: blowjob and cuddles.

      [–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

      I like this response. No DEER, you see it for it's transactional nature. you get what you want, and pay what you're willing to pay. words are cheap, you watch for actions. and you don't let your ego have you blow up and end up in a worse position

      [–][deleted]  (2 children)

      [deleted]

      [–]1trpposter 18 points19 points  (13 children)

      I won’t dump her, as I really enjoy her company and the sex

      You're still plugged in. You'd do well to dump her. Let her chase the man she desires, you're not him. Or you could end up with an STD, your choice.

      [–]Endorsed Contributorvandaalen 7 points8 points  (2 children)

      Let her chase the man she desires, you're not him.

      I'd say that much more you are still plugged in if you believe that a woman will ever be satisfied with the man she is with. The man she desires is always the man better than you and even if you were the richest, smartest, most handsome, most powerful, funniest, guy with the biggest dick, she would be looking for somebody "who isn't that perfect".

      Hypergamy 101.

      [–]Endorsed Contributorsadomasochrist 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      Bravo. While I agree OP is still a little attached, he's definitely more red pill than the guy with the blue pill in his throat rather than realizing there is no "the one" is trying to say "oh, she's looking for someone better, you're just not good enough" which is really a corollary to "she's no good."

      Until you can say you'd have no problem plating a LTR, I'd venture to say you're not quiet there yet.

      [–]RPDrogan 6 points7 points  (3 children)

      I disagree with this. OP is not "wasting" his life. He is happy in the situation he is in. Not everybody needs or desires to be a true alpha. If they did then being alpha would become irrelevant because it is the status quo.

      Op is content with his situation but he just wanted to see our views on it. He doesn't listen to your comments, that's fine. If you are striving for the alpha mindset as many of us are, then his response/reaction to your advice is not relevant. All that is relevant is that you offered it to him.

      [–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

      OP gives a good example of Women's nature. I disagree as well. OP isn't planning a life/marriage/house/kids with her. He's enjoying his turn. That's inherently redpill.

      [–]JacquesNicoleSonne[S] 6 points7 points  (5 children)

      I'm not the man she desires, but I'm the one she is fucking right now, and she is doing a pretty good job at it, so don't mind if I stay! :)

      [–]1trpposter 5 points6 points  (3 children)

      I'm not the man she desires, but I'm the one she is fucking right now, and she is doing a pretty good job at it, so don't mind if I stay! :)

      Meh, it's your life. If you want to throw it away, more power to you! You can be an example to others.

      [–]scissormytimbers69 3 points4 points  (3 children)

      Good post. Quick question, doesn't it notify the person if you log into their fb from a new location?

      [–]JacquesNicoleSonne[S] 6 points7 points  (2 children)

      It's not new, as she logged in at this spot already. But if she is notified, well so be it :)

      [–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (6 children)

      Lol, CAD used to say, youll never know.

      And now that you know, you can start seeing how all the rp advice makes sense.

      Every guy should do this once... Shake any bp outta his mind

      [–]1Sir_Distic 5 points6 points  (4 children)

      Lol, CAD used to say, you'll never know.

      It wasn't until I discovered the Red Pill that my jaw dropped because my ex used to say, multiple times, "You'll never know if a woman is cheating on you. Women can't get caught unless they want to get caught." (Of course my BP mind was like "yeah yeah")

      I totally agree with you (and CAD)

      [–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (2 children)

      And there's really only one play. You can't be paranoid, try to control it, that's just useless.

      Have the value to replace her ass. you'll get cucked, but you don't know what you don't know. Once you know, how to act defines you as a man.

      [–]1Sir_Distic 6 points7 points  (1 child)

      Funny thing is, I wasn't paranoid. I didn't believe she'd cheat on me. "Why would she cheat on me? If she didn't want to be with me she'd break up." We even discussed it several times and both agreed "I'd rather break up than cheat on someone"

      I laugh at that now. Jesus, when you're Blue Pill you're so oblivious to 2x4-to-the-head clues.

      [–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

      The lucky ones get to be the other dick, so they get the lesson without the pain.

      [–]Endorsed ContributorFLFTW16 4 points5 points  (0 children)

      She didn’t find me fit, or even pretty, compared to her ex boyfriends. Ok this one hurt to read, but I used to be obese, and has some stretchmarks on my belly. She said that she feels bad for saying it (oh, sweetie !) but she found it kinda disgusting when we fucked the first time. Oh, and I apaprently have a small dick.

      Inb4 shitredditsays links to this post to prove that redpillers are all small dicked misogynists.

      This made me feel sorry for you. No matter how much you improve yourself, get fit, get jacked, make tons of money, be famous, whatever--you'll never be hung like a horse. This is WHY female chastity is so important. Once a woman has tried a few different dicks she will gain a preference. If she only ever had one she would be satisfied with that one (barring extreme problems).

      Riding the carousel destroys a woman's worth. Once she's "had her fun" she is incapable of a stable monogamous relationship which is the bedrock of civilization. I'm reminded of the Christian origin myth: Eve ate the fruit of the tree of knowledge, sometimes referred as the apple. Then she gave it to Adam to eat. Once they had knowledge they hid from God because for the first time they knew they were naked and were ashamed. Knowledge is dangerous. Knowledge changes you and corrupts the innocent. When Eve gains carnal knowledge of cock size Adam just can't measure up for insert-reason-here.

      [–]TheCello 5 points6 points  (0 children)

      Gtfo the bitch immediately ffs

      No 7 was ridicolous to read

      [–]FoxMcWeezer 4 points5 points  (0 children)

      I also add that I’m generally pretty, pretty good at reading people.

      Don't say shit like this. Snowflakes say this, thinking they're special for being able to do something most people think they do well.

      [–]BasketCase559 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      I thought it was frowned upon/beta behavior to snoop through our girl's messages.

      I've had plenty of opportunity to do so, but I've refrained from it because of what I've learned from TRP. Now it seems like it's accepted. Nothing makes sense!

      [–]Geleemann 4 points5 points  (0 children)

      Women are lying hoes, treat them as such

      [–]AttackOnKvothe 4 points5 points  (0 children)

      Oh, and I apaprently have a small dick.

      We all do, mate. We all do...

      Also dump her if you want happiness. I can't understand how you can be in a relationship with a person who views you in a 40% negative light.

      [–]epubliusrex 10 points11 points  (11 children)

      How I would handle this, being me and being naturally dark.

      First Id put up a tinder and okcupid profile. Then I'd find some hotties younger or at least far more successful than her--both is preferable.

      Then I'd take her out to one of my favorite hangs and let the waitrons flirt with me. Then she'd get upset and start a fight when we got home. Then I'd pull up her FB account. Then I'd let her see the new hotties I had dates set up with.

      Now that she's totally crushed and destroyed by reality, I'd smile and just go to bed. Women are their own worst enemies. Never forget that.

      [–]vezokpiraka 2 points3 points  (1 child)

      While I agree with some of your points I have some different insights to offer.

      Point number 1: When I have an argument with a friend or anyone at all I like to ask the opinion of others. I find other points of view and maybe realise something I did wrong. I process everything myself, but I like asking around to see other perspectives.

      Point 6: Most of my convos are also filled with non-sense. It keeps the mind off of your troubling thoughts. I would say that someone who talks about a lot of different subjects is smarter than someone who doesn't, but it's not an absolute.

      The other points are true whoever and they are hard to accept at first.

      [–]Viklove 2 points3 points  (3 children)

      I think I almost had a stroke trying to read this. Why can't half of TRP write 500+ words in any capacity?

      [–]PATRIOTZER0 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      I don't think I'd be able to stay with her knowing all that. It's one thing to be disrespectful to you to your face, you can get past that, but to air all the dirty laundry out to everyone? I don't know man. She might not be the prize, you might be the prize, but no one goes to the carnival looking to be disrespected and hurt. I'd dump in a minute.

      [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

      "Welcome to the real world," when Morpheus greets Neo. The is why the Rep Pill is such an apt metaphor. A harsh introduction to the real world where everything you believed turned out to be fake. Your precious snowflake's window into her mind must have been like a kick in the balls.

      « Before I met JacquesNicoleSonne, I never thought I would find someone as good as my ex regarding sex and cuddles. Now that I’ve found him, I know I can find another »

      That's because she is 24 and pre-wall. I have met and seen so many women that think that way. Men are easily replaceable and the party will never end or I have time to settle down later. If I can find you, then I can find someone else.

      I think that the wall is a woman's version of the Red Pill. That harsh reality that slaps them upside the head that the party IS over and finding a decent high value man isn't as easy as it was in her 20's. I am now in that age group where I now meet and see the wall or post wall women and the panic in their eyes when they talk about relationships.

      [–]supremechuck 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      Most Every woman settles. Most every girl is raised to believe they're a princess.

      [–]aodh1 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      This post helps for those who want cuddles not just sex <3 hahaha great post

      [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      We are the prize. Never forget that.

      [–]1egoisenemy 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      better yourself and trade up

      [–]1empatheticapathetic 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      This thread absolutely crushed me and I'm grateful for it.

      [–]Fox-SAF 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      First things first OP, it's HER turn not YOURS.

      By your response "hey at least she is great in bed", taking in consideration you've been with her in a LTR for that much time and you went and checked her messages history when you had the option not to (why? because deep down it affects you, hell you EVEN made a post about it) most of us (at least most) can tell by a mile that you are in a comfort zone and you don't want to push beyond that.

      It's ok OP, that's how you learn. but now, is time to take action and stop hamstering about it:

      • Dump her, yes leave, but the sex is great! you say, go out and plate more chicks. (Unless she is your main plate and she provides you the most mind blowing sex you've ever had, which I doubt, well your choice)

      • Now that she is gone, that time you've wasted (or are still wasting because you don't want to push your boundaries ) use it to improve yourself. Read how to plate, read good books on improving yourself,etc (lifting is implied) and go plate. Better sex in the long run AND less drama, more happiness, if you learn how to manage your plates.

      And last but not least, DISREGARD anything you hear or read about you, only ACTIONS matter. I've been told I'm short, I'm tall, I have a small dick, I have a big dick and I you know what? I couldn't care less. You know why? In xxx amount of years me and everyone I know or will ever know will be gone and none of this will matter .

      Outcome independence is the answer.

      [–]mocket_ran 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      Regarding women conversations...I've never once overheard one that impressed me. As you mentioned its generally a pointless stream of pointless banter. Most of the time that i'm around men conversing it's either a probing type of conversation..everyone trying to learn from each other...or get to the bottom of something...or it's a conversation that is just pure comedy and entertainment...like your at a comedy battle roast or something. Both have purpose...I honestly don't know what the point of most girl conversations is.

      [–]El_Serpiente_Roja 4 points5 points  (0 children)

      Damn this one hurt to read.

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