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Science"Women rate the strongest men as the most attractive, study finds" (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by fromdario

Original Article from Washington Post

Highlights From The Article:

  • "Women, when asked in a study to judge photos of men's bodies, rated the strongest men as the most attractive. Height and leanness were appealing attributes, too, but strength played an outsize role in the ratings of a man's torso, per a report published Tuesday in the Proceedings of the Royal Society B."

  • "There was no nuance to these results, he said. Zero of the 160 women surveyed showed a statistical preference for weaker men."

  • "The researchers also discovered a linear relationship between a man's rated strength and his attractiveness. “What really explains the lion’s share in attractiveness is how strong a man looks,” Lukaszewski said."

  • "The study authors described a strong body as a signal, one our ancient ancestors would have understood: This is a healthy individual with a hearty immune system, the ripped body suggests, someone who can devote calories to building muscle rather than fighting off germs. Strength was also an “indicator of one’s ability to provide material and social benefits,” Lukaszewski said. In this interpretation, a strong man has value as a potential protector of women and children and is desired by other men as an ally."

Body:

I know, as if we needed another post promoting the reasons to lift. The results are astoundingly clear. Women prefer stronger men, duh. Something we all know.

What's funny is the article brings in another person not involved with the study to critique it. Obviously, there are other factors involved in attractiveness but its hard to ignore how obvious strength is in the equation.

It is still surprising the number of BP guys who refute this, talk about game, etc as a substitute for hitting the gym. Really if you at all care about attracting women, you can't ignore this.

Conclusion: CONTINUE LIFTING.

EDIT: from u/corsega - Here is the fulltext: http://sci-hub.tw/10.1098/rspb.2017.1819


[–][deleted] 150 points151 points  (18 children)

The most illuminating part of the study was the correlation between perceived and actual strength.

The study was not subtle. These were all college girls. The important thing about lifting is not just you're "more attractive" but that you're also more appealing to women who are down to fuck.

[–][deleted]  (15 children)

[deleted]

    [–][deleted] 55 points56 points  (2 children)

    There is definitely a limit, which is what the bloopies use to hamster away not working out at all.

    Spitballing here......what's a similarity between supersized silicon tits and supersized roid bodies? Neither are natural, nor particularly healthy looking.

    [–]antariusz 11 points12 points  (1 child)

    The problem is, you can’t just “accidentally” get too big.

    I’m currently at 5’8” 200 lbs, and I’m in the middle of my 4th prohormone cycle over the past few years (long breaks in-between. If I was completely natural I’d be closer to 180. I’m still not anywhere near “freakazoid” levels. The amount of work and dedication AND appropriate chemical enhancement is challenging and takes a toll.

    [–]LordThunderbolt 10 points11 points  (1 child)

    They're not talking about super roid warriorrs, they're talking about the natural Zyzz wannabes who are small and shredded vs powerlifter/linebacker types

    [–]pussyaficianado 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    There probably is, but the people recruited were 30 kids from the college gym, and 120 or 160 kids from a psychology class. No one probably met roof super sized body level. The authors (of the article maybe or maybe not the study authors) speculated as much that there would be an upper limit.

    [–]SuperCrazy07 101 points102 points  (1 child)

    Oh my, you forgot to include some of the hamstering in the article. One of my favorites:

    She pointed out that the results might not be universal. The raters were college-age women evaluating the appearance of college-age men. They might not “have much of an experience with what attractiveness means,” Dunsworth said.

    That's right. A woman doesn't know what's attractive until she hits the wall LOL.

    [–]fromdario[S] 24 points25 points  (0 children)

    haha yea. I chuckled at all that, kept it out to keep the focus on the main point but it is pretty funny and incredibly stupid.

    [–]OpossumManEater 336 points337 points  (75 children)

    This has reached the top of the science subreddit, go take a look if you want to laugh at all the beta male hamstering. Lazy fucks want any excuse not to lift and improve themselves.

    It's also turned into a comment graveyard.

    [–]ISaidThatOnPurpose 118 points119 points  (7 children)

    it's not that they don't want to lift,

    It's that they see their inability to reach a victory goal, so instead they are trying to change the goal posts.

    It's a devious tactic, but...

    ....I've said it before, i'll say it again....

    YOU CAN BELIEVE WHATEVER YOU WANT IN YOUR BRAIN, BUT YOU CANNOT CONVINCE YOUR SEXUAL DESIRE TO CHOOSE SOMETHING ELSE. THE WEINER AND VAJEEN ARE BULLET-PROOF LIE DETECTORS

    [–]jashleyren2 51 points52 points  (3 children)

    YOU CAN BELIEVE WHATEVER YOU WANT IN YOUR BRAIN, BUT YOU CANNOT CONVINCE YOUR SEXUAL DESIRE TO CHOOSE SOMETHING ELSE. THE WEINER AND VAJEEN ARE BULLET-PROOF LIE DETECTORS

    Please put this on my tombstone.

    [–]wanderer779 18 points19 points  (1 child)

    I think it should be changed to weiner and vajeener.

    [–]Hillarysdilddo_2016 24 points25 points  (2 children)

    What do you expect from bloopers? It's like staring into the abyss.

    [–]ryantheman2 16 points17 points  (1 child)

    When I saw this on my homepage, I thought it was on TRP at first.

    [–]Westernhagen 49 points50 points  (39 children)

    On twitter the betas are clucking that women don't like it if you get too big and muscly.

    [–]Jerk_McCock 85 points86 points  (27 children)

    I always love when dyels talk about getting “too big,” as if that’ll happen by accident if you’re not careful or something.

    [–]Lyonhurt 37 points38 points  (19 children)

    I know a guy (on gear) who milked disability income for 2 years because his calves got so big from roids his legs would sieze if he was standing for extended periods. He took his disability income and just kept lifting

    [–]fromdario[S] 16 points17 points  (0 children)

    [–][deleted]  (15 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]1Zanford 18 points19 points  (6 children)

      Ah yes, the stereotypical Jersey Shore lifestyle

      That's not uncommon in the bodybuilding world actually. And sometimes they can do stuff like personal training but always take it in cash so it doesn't interfere with their disability claims or gov't gibs. Pretty smart and decent life style all around. The ones with the eating and lifting discipline are no doubt hanging more and better than your average cubicle beta who is wealthier on paper.

      Also let's be real, that's kinda what most men on welfare are doing - they aren't lifting and aren't in good shape, but, they are using a lot of that free time to hang around on street corners and catcall or otherwise try to pick up chicks. So basically when you work half your day just to cover your income taxes, you are spending that time cramped in an office so some other dude can mack on chicks on your dime and time. And when he nails one and she shits out welfare babies, you get to pay for those too

      [–]brotein_synthesis 6 points7 points  (4 children)

      Yeah, no. There's virtually nothing worse than poverty and welfare that could happen to a man. Face it.

      [–]1Zanford 4 points5 points  (3 children)

      Paraphrasing Dave Chapelle, "if a man could get BJs with no effort, he'd be happy living in a cardboard box." A poor man who can pull hotties and is in good health will be much happier than a rich man who is lonely.

      [–]TaylorWolf 11 points12 points  (0 children)

      I work basically one long hard day a week. (The second day is usually just 2-4 hours.)

      The rest of my time I spend training MMA with big successful names like Alan Jouban and Eddie Bravo. (and recovering which SUCKS)

      If you really want this it's not hard to achieve... you just won't be making money for anything more than basic needs (especially if you eat clean) someone asked me once when I arrived at the gym late after working 12-16 hour days "do you want money or do you want to be a fighter" that question burned into my brain. I figure I can always make money into old age but you have to train while you are young if you want to succeed in competition.

      One of my favorite pastimes on days off is taking the morning class at 10P HQ with Eddie Bravo and going to the movies and seeing 2-3 movies in a row then return for the night class. 2-a-days baybe

      [–]Lyonhurt 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      Needs to stand for work. Can't stand for periods of time. Enter disability payments. Only 2 years allowed (he's almost done his 2, waiting to see what happens)

      [–]LordThunderbolt 3 points4 points  (1 child)

      Trained for 3 weeks before I woke up one morning and realized my arms grew to 19 inches cold at 10% bodyfat. What have I done???

      [–]VanRedPill 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      TIL that I was a dyel for the longest time

      [–]1PantsonFire1234 4 points5 points  (0 children)

      Some is grounded in reality, women like athletic kickboxer/mma/football/rugy type bodies. Lots of bodybuilders whom are to short yet to massive look ridiculous. The only women who find that appealing are supermassive black holes like Snookie from Jersey Shore.

      [–]VanRedPill 16 points17 points  (2 children)

      Thank god not everybody is willing to improve... Weeds out some of the competition.

      [–]PM_me_submissives 12 points13 points  (2 children)

      It's also turned into a comment graveyard. That's not uncommon on science subreddit.

      They certainly like to do a bit of censoring in general. You can see most deleted comment if you change the r of reddit into a c.

      [–]Chachenhouser 7 points8 points  (1 child)

      It's an absolute bloodbath. Every comment is deleted. I'm guessing only the most sanitized speech is remaining.

      [–]thebrandedman 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      2+2=5, Winston. Good God, that's a trainwreck.

      [–]BobbyPeru 68 points69 points  (1 child)

      This post reminds me of this one time a guy suggested lifting on here

      [–]2Overkillengine 130 points131 points  (46 children)

      "B-but a shredded physique is just a male power fantasy!!"

      The inevitable refrain by some weakling in skinny jeans wishing to justify how they are "different" from "all those other guys".

      [–]fromdario[S] 162 points163 points  (31 children)

      Reminds me of a guy I know...

      Him, his girlfriend and I were leaving a party at the same time and happened to be parked in the same lot a couple blocks away. Not the nicest area for sure.

      His GF is walking closer to me. He notices and complains (yes he whined about it) that she isn't walking with him. Her response was ice cold and went something like: "This is a dangerous area and he's more of a man". I shit you not.

      EDIT: I forgot what his verbal response was, but I do remember he just started doing some goofy "ninja moves" as a joke. She did laugh - at him.

      [–]LORD-THUNDERCUNT 121 points122 points  (4 children)

      I would've killed myself if that were me

      [–]ThickDickWarrior89 20 points21 points  (2 children)

      Are you related to lord thunderbolt?

      [–]daringdeviljackass 29 points30 points  (1 child)

      Good for you man. Continue lifting and tap that

      [–]ThickDickWarrior89 30 points31 points  (8 children)

      Lmfao nice I’d be embarrassed for him

      [–]fromdario[S] 63 points64 points  (7 children)

      I was. I don't she think she realized how much of an insult it was.

      [–]TunedtoPerfection 38 points39 points  (1 child)

      Yes she did, he invited a shit test by being a bitch. She served up a classic, not in anyway original, plain shit test. He did ninja moves, she lost more respect for him and probably denied him sex when they got back home.

      [–]fromdario[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

      The ninja moves were very cringe.

      [–]brotein_synthesis 9 points10 points  (4 children)

      I would drop that bitch there and then.

      [–]fromdario[S] 6 points7 points  (3 children)

      Yea I mean, I was trying to think of how to recover from this if I were him. What on earth could you say as a response back to that.

      [–]brotein_synthesis 10 points11 points  (0 children)

      Literally nothing, it's the meanest insult possible - mocking his masculinity. Situations like these make or break people.

      [–]mummersfarce_is_done 12 points13 points  (0 children)

      In chess, you can find yourself in situations that no matter how masterful you can be in your tactics right now you will still lose because you made a set of misplays 10 moves ago.

      [–]ThePwnter 8 points9 points  (3 children)

      Come on, you can't leave us hanging like that. What happened after she said that?

      [–]fromdario[S] 14 points15 points  (2 children)

      Oh God, it was bad, I forgot what he said, but I do remember he just started doing some goofy "ninja moves" as a joke. She did laugh - at him.

      [–]ThePwnter 2 points3 points  (1 child)

      So did you two ever hook up after?

      [–]fromdario[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

      No. I was not attracted to her and as a result didn't try anything. Thinking back, curious to see what she would have done had I made a move.

      [–][deleted]  (7 children)

      [deleted]

        [–]fromdario[S] 16 points17 points  (6 children)

        Haha, nice! I went to Universal a couple years ago. GF wanted to do the Walking Dead thing where they jump out at you. To be honest all those things popping out put me on edge, I nearly clocked one of the guys in costume when he startled me.

        [–][deleted] 16 points17 points  (3 children)

        To be fair, it is about male power, it's just not a fantasy I doubt you'd disagree.

        I picture a continuum from peacock to elk......peacock's strut for the good lady's attention, and elk beat the shit out of each other to settle the matter.....in both cases, the female is riding herd on male power dynamics.

        [–]2Overkillengine 10 points11 points  (2 children)

        Oh aye, it is just that the connotation being used in that phrase is a way to imply that it is an entirely self centered impulse on the part of the male in which the female bears no fault or responsibility for encouraging.

        I mean, how dare those men notice what my precious snowflake likes and put in the effort to provide it? Misogyny! Patriarchy! /hipster

        [–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (1 child)

        Yep, I thought we were on the same page....I know my life improved once I just started focusing on self improvement. Damn, that sounded like a tautology, but I'll tell you what, it's an upward spiral. I get my ass handed to me more often than not on the mat, but everywhere else I'm a tough son of a bitch.

        I recently went climbing and a friend of my climbing buddy came along...she was a hard core feminist, working on her PhD in Geography, very interested in the whole LBTG thing....I'll tell you what, though, she watched me struggle up that pitch past fear, right at the edge of my abilities...and I swear to FSM, she was wetter than May.

        [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        Those voluntarily remaining weak drive the bitches into my arms. I humbly thank you, whoever you are.

        [–]Chachenhouser 1 point2 points  (4 children)

        Is it bad that I wear skinny jeans to keep my legs insulated in 40 degree weather?

        [–]MarvelousWhale 11 points12 points  (3 children)

        If you could squat at least 2 plates then you'd have enough muscle to not need "insulation"

        Sounds like an excuse to wear your sisters pants bro

        [–]Chachenhouser 2 points3 points  (2 children)

        They are my jeans. And they seen skin tight either, at all. I do skip leg exercises in favor of upper body workouts. I guess that's where the problem stems from.

        [–]abenomix 48 points49 points  (8 children)

        My pre and post RP photos/transformation led me to the same conclusion, all without wasting research funds. Attractiveness went up by orders of magnitude. PRE-POST RP

        [–]fromdario[S] 20 points21 points  (1 child)

        Serious "face gains" you look younger and healthier. Good for you!

        [–]Arnoux 3 points4 points  (0 children)

        Jesus this guy went from weak beta provider to Jason Statham face wise.

        [–]StudntRdyTeachrApear 9 points10 points  (0 children)

        Gj man. My gains are similar to yours, albeit a bit less atm. It has been amazing having girls who adore my chest and arms for the first time in my life.

        [–]crezber 5 points6 points  (0 children)

        Wonderful. I will this comment to motivate myself for that kind of change

        [–]cantFindValidNam 5 points6 points  (0 children)

        Post your numbers for squat deadlift and bench please?

        [–]Aurien7 283 points284 points  (39 children)

        This has been common knowledge for every person that ever lived

        [–]nofilmynofucky 40 points41 points  (7 children)

        Not if you listen to what women say they want.

        Which I'm not suggesting you should ever do but if I had a dollar for every blue numale I've met you thinks that being a nice, virtue signaling, generous and politically modern 'gentleman' will get them laid I'd have enough money to fund a revolution and clean this shit up

        [–]Forrix17 16 points17 points  (3 children)

        There's a woman on my facebook who is constantly preaching the above and the #metoo stuff. She also talks a lot about her amazing boyfriend who stayed persistent when she told him she wasn't interested in him and eventually won her over.

        [–]the_mad_mad_cow 16 points17 points  (1 child)

        Did she tell you how many Chads she fucked while homeboy was pining for her?

        [–]LandoChronus 6 points7 points  (0 children)

        Sounds like rape. I bet that's where she gets the "privilege" of using #metoo...

        [–]fromdario[S] 8 points9 points  (2 children)

        Had this this valuable lesson hammered home by accident years ago at a dinner party in mixed company.

        Long story short, everyone was being polite and "nice" but I had a bit too much to drink and was more "real" than usual.

        Some of the guys (and girls) were huffing and puffing at the shit I was saying, but most of the girls were very much digging it. You know that fake being offended "oh my god, you're so bad!" but with a smile on their face and the look in their eye.

        [–]AlexDr0ps 101 points102 points  (6 children)

        Something something, water is wet

        [–]no_its_a_subaru 18 points19 points  (1 child)

        In science news, women like men who are muscular, water is in fact wet, and the earth is round. Back to the studio for today’s weather forecast!

        [–]ThePwnter 6 points7 points  (2 children)

        In related news the Sun is hot. Johnson, back to you...

        [–]Your_Coke_Dealer 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        In related news, bears have been found to shit in the woods, and the Pope has confirmed he is in fact Catholic.

        [–]Losingsteamfast 59 points60 points  (17 children)

        I was surprised that they concluded that strength was a stronger determinant than height or leanness.

        [–]yumyumgivemesome 26 points27 points  (2 children)

        I am too. AFAIK the study didn't show the men in person so the women didn't have the chance to feel small or large in each man's presence. The women were probably told a height, which is basically just a number to them. Plus, they knew that they wouldn't actually be dating these guys.

        My point is that, while this conclusion is surprising, I think there are a few explanations that caused the height factor to be somewhat discounted from reality.

        [–]Losingsteamfast 9 points10 points  (0 children)

        I didn't even consider that. That's a really good point.

        [–]Forrix17 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        I think wanting to feel like their boyfriend is stronger than them and able to protect them is where the height obsession with women comes from. Barring dedicated weightlifting regimes height is a pretty good indicator of a man's strength.

        [–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (10 children)

        I think in terms of who women like seeing in movies and what not, they like a lean, dreamy Brad Pitt looking guy.

        But in real life, they have an innate attraction to the big burly linebacker types with beards and shit.

        [–]Losingsteamfast 16 points17 points  (4 children)

        Somebody else made a point that looking at pictures doesn't really give you a true feel of a person's height. The same would be true for movies/tv not really portraying a person's size perfectly.

        I've met shaq and you can see how big he is in pictures and on tv but holy shit it's an entirely different story when you're actually standing next to that monster. You just feel like a dwarf standing near him.

        That's an extreme example but it kind of lines up you with what your saying. A handsome guy is a handsome guy, but it's harder to appreciate size until you're actually standing next to someone.

        [–][deleted]  (3 children)

        [deleted]

          [–]facestab 8 points9 points  (2 children)

          We can live in a boat made from his shoe.

          [–]LordThunderbolt 5 points6 points  (0 children)

          Both of you can be his shoes

          [–]1scissor_me_timbers00 12 points13 points  (3 children)

          Not entirely. I see plenty of hot women with lean Brad Pitt types

          [–]mytrillosophy 8 points9 points  (0 children)

          Well yeah lean brad Pitt types are still better than 80% of men

          [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

          I’m not even saying the big burly types are considered more attractive than the Brad Pitt types.

          Just that the big burly types are more attractive to women in real life than they are on tv. No girl has a Ray Lewis poster up on her wall, but if she met him in real life, she’d be attractive to his stature and presence

          [–]1scissor_me_timbers00 4 points5 points  (0 children)

          Definitely true, but they also fall over themselves for slender fit guys if they have height and/or facial genetics.

          [–]vwibrasivat 5 points6 points  (0 children)

          The conclusion can't be scientific. the tests subjects were (Lliterally) 130 college girls. Male Cover models do not make their bodies look like olympic weightlifters. They are barrel chested, chubby, stocky with fat legs etc.

          Models want a nice Apollonion "ripped" body.. often shaving off all their hair and tanning to round out the "male model" look.

          [–]Joey_Lopez 4 points5 points  (0 children)

          Maybe but it did inspire me to do one extra set

          [–]Westernhagen 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          But now, we know it WITH SCIENCE!!!

          [–]chaseemall 6 points7 points  (0 children)

          Most of what is discussed in this sub is common knowledge for every man that ever lived. However, a LOT of intergenerational knowledge, passed on both by explicit teaching and by observation and mimicry, has been lost due to the rash of fatherlessness in our society. Not to mention the plethora of 'spergs and shut-ins who find this place in an effort to make their lives better. Things which may seem obvious no longer are.

          [–]TheStumblingWolf 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          Sure but it's nice to have it on paper

          [–]JamzeNeu 70 points71 points  (14 children)

          This is on the top of r science right now. The comment section is really salty. SJWs calling evolutionary psychology a pseudo science.lol Also, a lot of censorship of truth going on.

          [–]fromdario[S] 55 points56 points  (5 children)

          It’s the same people who say gender has nothing to do with biology... OK, by all means, go ahead and enjoy your girlfriend’s penis.

          [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (2 children)

          And I hate when people misuse the term "gender" when what they really mean is "sex," which is the only term that really means something biologically.

          [–]pussyaficianado 10 points11 points  (1 child)

          The term gender started out as a polite way not to say the word sex, and then it was conscripted via social construct to mean something else.

          [–][deleted] 20 points21 points  (7 children)

          The problem I have with the pseudo science label is that just because something doesn't chalk up as 100% accurate all the time doesn't mean it's necessarily untrue.

          Like women obviously prefer your typical chadly hunk to some string bean beta STEM nerd.. But once in a while you have a chick that prefers scrawny beta guys like a guy might prefer a BBW to a regular healthy sized woman or small tits over big tits.

          But the vast majority of men still prefer a woman who's normal size with a nice rack.

          Scientists can't agree on jack shit about anything. They're all always fighting and science results in more failures than "proving things".

          Pseudoscience is just a hot word liberals and generally annoying people use to tune out anything that might hurt their feelings or cause them to question what they know.

          [–]king_of_red_alphas 7 points8 points  (3 children)

          I wouldn’t say liberals have the market cornered on science denial although they have come up with some of the more ridiculous ones lately.

          [–]pussyaficianado 2 points3 points  (2 children)

          Idk, I think vaccination leading to autism is the most ridiculous one and that seems to cross the political divide from the most natural conscious hippies to the weirdest religious nutbags.

          [–]king_of_red_alphas 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          Lol. True.dat.

          The conspiracy theory shit also knows no political boundary.

          [–]Augustuscrassus 2 points3 points  (1 child)

          But once in a while you have a chick that prefers scrawny beta guy

          Not likely. One of my plates is a huge nerd and a 6 at best. She gets wet when she feels my lats.

          Praise broseidon for my easy back gains.

          [–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

          Let me rephrase that.. Once in a while you have a chick that tells herself she prefers a scrawny beta guy.

          [–]Elatea 165 points166 points  (10 children)

          study:"men find tits attractive"

          [–][deleted]  (6 children)

          [removed]

            [–]Augustuscrassus 3 points4 points  (0 children)

            They have a preference for size. But all men like tits.

            -Former ass man

            [–]3nebder 15 points16 points  (2 children)

            My man, you’re saying the same thing as the person brought in to critique the article. You’re connecting dots that aren’t there attempting to attribute them to men and denigrate women at the same time.

            Attraction is a biological function and you backfill (hamster) any other qualities the person has as part of what makes them attractive. The cute guy is funny, the funny guy isn’t always cute.

            Yes there are variations within specifics of attraction. The baselines are the same. T&A for dudes, strength for gals. These are the biological indicators that represent reproductive fitness. Anything else is icing on the cake.

            PUA spikes emotional routines that bypass these biological filters because we are conscious animals. There’s no such thing as PUA in the animal kingdom. It’s straight biology there.

            [–]Endorsed ContributorMarsupian 3 points4 points  (0 children)

            Nah man all dudes are attracted to nice round firm tits. If it signal health and firtility your dick wants to smash dat ass. That finer detail and personal taste talk is bullshit. Don't act like men are special and aren't driven by biological instinct.

            [–]blue_27 19 points20 points  (0 children)

            I ... volunteer for the continuation of this study.

            [–]Hjalmbere 39 points40 points  (9 children)

            Hardly news, but we all have lives outside the gym where status, game, and grooming also play a part. But exercise is where it starts.

            [–]Kgb725 5 points6 points  (6 children)

            Doesn't it start with good social skills first ?

            [–]Hjalmbere 14 points15 points  (0 children)

            Lifting lowers body fat, increases testosterone, and (if done right) improves posture. Ask yourself if it’s easier to interact with people if you’re a low testosterone obese dweeb, or if you look and feel fit.

            [–]RP085 17 points18 points  (2 children)

            There was a book, I don't remember if it was Kezia Noble's, or Marni [Something]'s book called "Get Inside Her", but it was written by a woman so I think it was one of those two.

            The author says an activity was done (can't remember if the author organized it or someone else) in which a group of women (can't remember how many; a workshop full of them?) were asked to write down a list of all the desirable attributes/qualities they would want in an ideal man.

            Then they were asked to narrow that list down to 15 attributes. Then 10. Then 5, and so on, and finally narrow it down to 1.

            The attribute chosen by them all was: Strength.

            [–]Garathon 7 points8 points  (1 child)

            Tbf strength can have multiple meanings. Mental strength, strength of frame etc.

            [–]RP085 7 points8 points  (0 children)

            Yes, I do agree with that and that's how I interpreted it.

            It's the strength in general that moves a male up in rank/hierarchy, surpassing other males; the strength that makes the one at the top (the alpha) be there. The strength in your energy, and physically, frame, influence, status, etcetera.

            [–]maplemaximus 76 points77 points  (46 children)

            It would have been a better study if they showed strong men with under average faces, and pretty boys with weak or lean bodies. Then we'd know the real facts.

            [–]yumyumgivemesome 31 points32 points  (9 children)

            I've noticed this pattern when seeing a guy's progress pics on r_fitness and r_progresspics... The dude's face becomes multiple times more attractive. Why? Because a chiseled face is part of the classical definition of a handsome male face. Therefore, just by being in great shape, a man's face is far more likely to be classically handsome.

            [–]fromdario[S] 15 points16 points  (7 children)

            This.

            From my own experience doing a wide range of diet/exercise programs to change body composition & fitness goals...

            The most positive in terms of female response was when I did a big cut and dropped to like 8% BF. "Face gains" were noticeable, no longer the swollen jacked up powerlifter face.

            Very obvious increase in attention/looks from females. Even though, I was much smaller looking in clothes. It has been so positive that I have been following a Lean Gains protocol ever since. I'd rather slowly bulk while keeping the BF low than bulk/cut and have to dead with a fatter head during the bulk phase.

            [–][deleted]  (6 children)

            [deleted]

              [–]richpianoooo 4 points5 points  (0 children)

              dude thats me i was 92kgs and im around 83 84kgs now and holy shit the difference between then and now in how woman look at me is night and day fml i should of done this sooner hahahah

              [–]wracky272 36 points37 points  (14 children)

              Does that mean pretty boys won't benefit from having strong bodies? To quote the great Mark Bell: "Strength is never a weakness."

              [–]k-ma 9 points10 points  (6 children)

              Yes. Look at male k-pop stars, they thrive off their skinny “cute” looks

              [–]TaylorWolf 11 points12 points  (2 children)

              That's a lot of young girl fans though... girls who would be into Justin Beiber over here (when he first blew up at least)

              They grow out of that once they lose their innocence and realize what a scary place the world can be. Then they want a real man by their side.

              [–]FractalNerve 8 points9 points  (1 child)

              I don't know kpop, but this sounds like a false assumption. You don't find such "famous people" in your random bar next door. Fame can create the illusion of a strong frame to an audience of "believers" who don't know better. Also fame enhances collective herd behavior.

              [–]yomo86 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              These guys are still aesthetically pleasing. Plus herd mentality. A woman will challenge her own biology just to conform with the herd thus ensuring the support of the herd increasing her chance of survival back in the day.

              [–]Torabor64 17 points18 points  (17 children)

              Why would they do that? Then you wouldn't know anything. You can only change one variable to draw a conclusion. Isn't this common sense?...

              [–]clme 51 points52 points  (16 children)

              Imagine a 2 by 2 matrix with four categories:

              • A) hideous face & strong body
              • B) hideous face & weak body
              • C) hot face & strong body
              • D) hot face & weak body

              It's a no brainer that women would most prefer (C) and least prefer (B). But the interesting unanswered question is whom would they choose to fuck if the choice were between males from categories (A) versus (D) only.

              [–]InstigatingDrunk 21 points22 points  (0 children)

              this is a perfect illustration OP was making. A vs D is where things get interesting lol

              [–][deleted] 20 points21 points  (10 children)

              I think face & weak body would win lol

              [–]ThePwnter 12 points13 points  (9 children)

              I've seen plenty really hot girls who are with jacked dudes that have the faces of a inbred retard. From my life experiences, I'd definitely say they would go with bad face good body. Their biology determines what is attractive to them, and outside of perfect symmetry and physical likeness, faces will play a smaller role to other more important determinants.

              [–]StudntRdyTeachrApear 34 points35 points  (6 children)

              Keep telling yourself that facelet

              [–]FractalNerve 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              Same, I agree. Have seen ugly scarred and even childishly stupid, but huge steroid pumped guys blast 9s. Even though they were turned of from the bad grammar and language use, they still followed lead. I kid you not, that guy believed he could be a model. Well, whatever pushes his ego.. A and C are the only types who can get 9s without effort in general. Quit the hate.

              [–]Torabor64 4 points5 points  (1 child)

              You definitively aren't experienced in science, I see.

              [–]All-DayErrDay 5 points6 points  (1 child)

              So more stuff for you to whine about.

              [–]maplemaximus 4 points5 points  (0 children)

              No, to see if strength is what makes a man most attractive.

              [–]Essexal 38 points39 points  (14 children)

              And some motherfuckers fell for ‘women love the dad bod’.

              Good luck with your rolls motherfuckers. By the time I’m 40, ripped, with enough disposable time and income to do what I wish, it won’t even be a competition anymore.

              [–]3nebder 36 points37 points  (8 children)

              Wanna know a secret? 5-10 185 nearing 40. Not having a gut alone puts you in the top 25%. Having visible pecs and shoulders/traps bumps you into the top 15%. Now your only competition is those very few other guys in the gym at your age range.

              I’m likely 18% bf. I still carry a bit of lovehandle and just a bit of bellybutton fat naked. I’m thin enough to see my abs lines, but not cut enough to see my abs definition. I look thin and strong in shirts. Obviously pick the shirts that are tight across the shoulders and chest.

              It’s a fucking cakewalk man. Cougars eat me up. Young girls 18-21 (that are into older guys, maybe 25-40%) get all smiley and awkward around me. It’s fucking awesome. Hail to the king baby. I love life now.

              The only people that complain about getting older are the ones that let themselves go to utter shit. Fuck your dadbod.

              [–]fromdario[S] 12 points13 points  (3 children)

              Yup...

              It's funny, lots of my married friends pushing for settling down.

              I'm happy you enjoy your family but don't push that shit on me.

              At a BBQ one day I just spoke my mind on this, "I'm in my 30s and regularly take women away from guys in their early 20s. When this stops being the norm maybe I'll start looking to settle down."

              [–]Augustuscrassus 4 points5 points  (2 children)

              I'm in my 30s and regularly take women away from guys in their early 20s. When this stops being the norm maybe I'll start looking to settle down.

              And you were never invited out again.

              [–]ACmaster 9 points10 points  (0 children)

              Women want masculine men, and men want feminine women.

              How surprising!

              [–]drkinferno72 7 points8 points  (0 children)

              Cause strongest cavemen bring back meat to tribe and fight off saber tooth tiger

              continue for generations as the weakest would simply die

              [–]Redpillandrew 32 points33 points  (4 children)

              Maybe I'm missing something but... ...how did they manage to make the women tell the truth?

              [–]SuperCrazy07 27 points28 points  (2 children)

              What incentive is there for them to lie?

              This isn't "how many guys have you slept with" where you subtract 10 and divide by 3 before replying. It's "who's more attractive"...zero negative consequences for telling the truth.

              [–]Kgb725 4 points5 points  (0 children)

              Is there a good reason for them to lie about that ?

              [–]Hillarysdilddo_2016 24 points25 points  (5 children)

              "There was no nuance to these results, he said. Zero of the 160 women surveyed showed a statistical preference for weaker men."

              Hahaha. Literally, not even once.

              Of course they bring in someone to critique the results. It's the Washington compost... SJW CIA shill Jeff Bezos' personal blog.

              [–]LordThunderbolt 12 points13 points  (4 children)

              Jeff Bezos has been lifting and pinning HGH my guy. He looks like an Israeli gun runner now: http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/07/15/01/424C490A00000578-0-Swole_con_Valley_-a-15_1500079233545.jpg

              [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

              But definitely still get your cardio in.

              [–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

              just lol if you still ain't bloatmaxxing

              [–]BullshittingNonsense 4 points5 points  (1 child)

              This is just like that recent study that found that women find older, wealthier men attractive.

              [–]ThePwnter 8 points9 points  (0 children)

              All of the women polled were 30+ ;P

              [–]Bigjohnthug 3 points4 points  (2 children)

              Quick aside, while I agree with the theme of the article there are some problems with this study:

              The biggest is that it draws the conclusion "strength is the primary factor for determining male attractiveness" without investigating that at all. Rather, they've shown ripped guys are more attractive than unfit guys. That's obvious. To demonstrate what they've claimed to study however they'd need to measure several independent variables in tandem.

              Another study did this using computer generated model humans with varying hip:shoulder ratios, heights and penis length. They found height was the largest determining factor. In this study, torsos were rated independent of the rest of the subject. Therefore, we don't know if the tall lanky guy is more or less attractive than the buff shorty. We also don't know if face or body matters more.

              Another concern is their use of the word strength. The sample group was college men recruited from the college gym. Having been to my fair share of uni gyms, you aren't going to find powerlifters there. In other words, the strongest people would have been bodybuilders with fitness comp physiques in all likelihood. So the correlation could be any one or combination of the following (to attractiveness): lower BF%, broader shoulders, shoulder:waist ratio, hip:waist ratio, skin tone, etc etc. What they definitely didnt show is that strong=hot.

              Basically, the claims of this study are divorced from the reality of their findings. The main takeaway is if you aren't ripped, getting ripped will make you more attractive. It might not make you more attractive than other attractive guys however and working on something else may be more worthwhile- for example if you have a mono brow, acne and buck teeth, you probably have bigger concerns.

              [–]BoogieorBust 2 points3 points  (1 child)

              Do you have a link to the second study you mentioned?

              [–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (2 children)

              So bears do in fact shit in the woods?

              [–]jtromo 8 points9 points  (14 children)

              Surprising that everyone is saying this is super obvious when there was a fairly recent post on here that was well received saying that lean was more important than bulky builds.

              [–]brotein_synthesis 3 points4 points  (0 children)

              Put it simple, lean does not mean what you think it does.

              [–]fromdario[S] 4 points5 points  (11 children)

              The article does talk about "lean" physique a bit as a preference, but its vague.

              Curious to see what BF% vs Strength relationship there is.

              I would assume there would be a balance somewhere. i.e. would women pick this guy because he is stronger than this guy?

              [–]jtromo 1 point2 points  (10 children)

              Yeah I was going off of "Height and leanness were appealing attributes, too, but strength played an outsize role in the ratings of a man's torso", but it's something I've often wondered myself. In my times of cutting and bulking it's seemed like despite having more defined abs while cutting, I got more results when I was at my heaviest.

              [–]fromdario[S] 5 points6 points  (4 children)

              Interesting, I found the opposite. My lower BF% got me more attention than when I was bulkier, noticeably so.

              Face looks different at different BF% tho, maybe you pull off a heavier face and I don't.

              [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

              I get different kinds of attention when I'm lean vs when I'm bulky. Back when I was 180 I looked decent and girls liked my body, but now that I'm 270 they won't fucking stop touching me when they're around. Always randomly hugging me, jumping on my back, holding my arm as we walk instead of my hand. Not saying you can't be big and strong at a lighter weight, but when you're 270 18-20% body fat, it's a whole fucking different ball game. Girls are either way more aggressive or way more submissive. At that point you're considered "exotic" because most muscular guys aren't even half as big as you, and probably only 30-40% as strong as you. Bitches love the bear-mode look.

              [–]Jerk_McCock 2 points3 points  (4 children)

              I got more results when I was at my heaviest.

              Well yeah, cause you’re giving your body the nutrition surplus it needs to improve on lifts. That’s what I hate about cutting, you just end up feeling like you’re spinning your wheels on lifts even though your core looks more toned.

              What I kind of did to get a happy combination of the two is to just not cut out the food but put more time in at the gym. That way you’re getting body recomposition instead of losing both muscle and fat by just cutting food.

              [–]fromdario[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              I feel you.

              My search for the happy medium was Lean Gains. I've been on that tip for a while, absolutely love it. Increase in strength/muscle while also staying pretty ripped. It does take dedication and some paying attention but its been the best thing I've found. Hard for me to put more time in the gym than I currently do.

              [–]LordThunderbolt 2 points3 points  (1 child)

              He meant results with women, not lifts.

              [–]ThePwnter 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              You should research hypertrophy.

              [–]1ozaku7 12 points13 points  (10 children)

              "The study authors described a strong body as a signal, one our ancient ancestors would have understood: This is a healthy individual with a hearty immune system, the ripped body suggests, someone who can devote calories to building muscle rather than fighting off germs. Strength was also an “indicator of one’s ability to provide material and social benefits,” Lukaszewski said. In this interpretation, a strong man has value as a potential protector of women and children and is desired by other men as an ally."

              That is some nice research but the written conclusion is totally bullshit. Visually speaking, a man is supposed to be muscly, a woman is supposed to be curvy. Curvier ass, bigger tits, more defined feminine face, everything is a female feature with a degree of intensity on a scale from 1 to 10. Small tits? 3. Huge tits? 10 on the feminine intensity scale.

              A man is supposed to have muscles, facial hair growth, deep voice. Gender Attribute Intensity is where it's at. Are you attracted to a average fishstick type of woman with no curves, or one with a toned body from daily fitness and big tits? Obviously, women are not attracted to the male version of fishsticks, but men with big muscles that make them manly.

              1+1=2, never have I ever heard a woman say "Oh my god, that guy looks so milky white and slim from being months locked up voluntarily in his basement playing WoW, my panties are so wet right now for him" and neither have any of you. We want tits, ass, fit body and pussy with a cute face, women want muscles, a big dick, a strong deep voice and a firm personality. End of story. Fucking politically correct published research.

              [–]JYandeau 7 points8 points  (1 child)

              In other news; water is wet

              [–]BthaGawd2 2 points3 points  (9 children)

              I have a question..we're these guys who were strong but with higher body fat % to? Or just guys who were cut?

              [–]fromdario[S] 2 points3 points  (4 children)

              The article does talk about "lean" physique a bit as a preference, but its vague.

              Curious to see what BF% vs Strength relationship there is.

              I would assume there would be a balance somewhere. i.e. would women pick this guy because he is stronger than this guy?

              [–]1rporion 2 points3 points  (1 child)

              I have seen some that would.

              [–]viral_left_stroke 3 points4 points  (0 children)

              Maybe it would be related to how the women perceives herself...if she feels a little unhealthy but "overall attractive" maybe go for the guy who is kind of the same (obviously they don't understand the level of work to become strongman strong), or just regular fit girls want a regular fit dude? I don't know just a thought. Btw how did you find that photo of me.

              [–]Ardekan 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              Strongmen just look fat. The other guy looks strong.

              [–]Ninokun 3 points4 points  (2 children)

              Strength? more likely looks. i have abs and big chest and shoulders but im literally weak as fuck, i train in the 150lbs weight class, my looks are mostly due to Diet.

              [–]LordThunderbolt 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              If you have visible and, you definitely won't have a "strong" look as a natty. To have that strong look you need some fat on you and a certain dense look about your physique.

              [–]CHIPPENDALESIXNINE 3 points4 points  (1 child)

              Keep in mind the Pic posted is likely similar to what the women were shown or thought of when referring to strength. Too many guys wanna be in bulking season all year long and never get lean. Also, if you're natural and want to keep abs, this is likely your genetic limit for size.

              [–]banjew 5 points6 points  (4 children)

              I would think being a roided meat-head is not that attractive. I mean, a natural ripped body surely is attractive. But I would think, a heavy, wide, strong manlet (who I am, unfortunately) is less attractive than a tall, muscular guy.

              [–]fromdario[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              Study vaguely references height and leanness. I would imagine there is some balance between all of those that the majority of women find as their ideal.

              [–]coco5440 5 points6 points  (0 children)

              Cool study. Since women were just shown torso photos height may have been down played a bit.

              [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (3 children)

              I remember a source a few years ago (sorry can't find link atm) that said low socio-economic women liked big muscles, higher status liked tall lanky guys (like William the prince except with hair). Old money usually isn't ripped. Not sure why but interesting results nevertheless. Probably because big muscles might be associated by them with lower socio-ec status guys. That said, not a bad place to be if you're big and can bounce around some poor poontang.

              [–]RedDespair 2 points3 points  (1 child)

              My question is:

              Just how strong are we talking about? Did they see strongman's fat bodies?

              Cause these guys are the strongest motherfuckers

              [–]Gaullic 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              I'm pretty sure we've known this since forever.

              [–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 2 points3 points  (1 child)

              Women prefer stronger men, duh. Something we all know.

              Strong is attractive.

              But so is leanness. Women cannot gauge male strength very effectively if the muscles are covered in fat.

              Don't take away from this that you can just lift and be strong and not have to lose any weight.

              Bodyfat is beta.

              [–]shadymcyoloswaggins 2 points3 points  (3 children)

              The problem with this is that it is simplistic and within a vacuum. Yes, of course, we know that if the only difference is musculoskeletal structure then musculoskeletal structure is the deciding factor. Water is wet.

              But; if you were to show a ripped guy lying on a bit of cardboard next to a bunch of used needles wearing shabby clothes and a junkie girlfriend Vs a skinny/fat guy next to a Lambo with a briefcase in hand with a couple gorgeous babes. Then what. We all know the answer would be.

              Why? Well ask yourself this; which man would you do business with? Which man would you break bread with? Which man would you defer to? Which man would you want as a father?

              Is it that women define male success based on male perception rather than their own. Is the only reason Hollywood degenerates and beta beibers so popular because of there vouching of dominance by other men (determined by other men's willingness to dedicate their own resources).

              How does this impact men when men go around calling each other bitches, beta, geeks etc. What do we think of a female geek? Is that really projected as an insult? Why do men shit where they eat so much?

              We know that divide and conquer has been used for millennia. Red pill Vs blue pill, Communism Vs capitalism, mods Vs rockers, hippies Vs the man, Nazi's Vs allies, Rome Vs the barbarians. This psychological tendency aides our survival at times. How could it be used against us?

              Jesus Christ never worshipped anyone, Buddha never followed anyone, Chad doesn't copy Chad. TRP IS NOT 'the red pill', it is a Bible, it is part of the matrix, it is the apple, it is heaven and hell. It is not THE way. It is A way. What is YOUR way?

              Hands up who knows someone blue pill. Hands up who respects them?

              Now I know that starts on point and soon goes becomes galactic meta but I am fed up seeing what once was a great tool and resource for men yet again become a deified cult which only weakens men. Also if you masterbate you are a loser/s

              *Pressed save to early

              [–]Augustuscrassus 6 points7 points  (1 child)

              But; if you were to show a ripped guy lying on a bit of cardboard next to a bunch of used needles wearing shabby clothes and a junkie girlfriend Vs a skinny/fat guy next to a Lambo with a briefcase in hand with a couple gorgeous babes. Then what. We all know the answer would be

              It would be both. The ripped guy for the babies and the rich guy to pay for it. Sidebar son.

              [–]TuscanNash 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              This should shock nobody at all.

              [–]DextroShade 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              In other news, water is wet.

              [–]2chazthundergut 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              Biology cannot be denied. Thank you for sharing this further scientific proof of what we've already come to understand intuitively.

              [–]chaosrunssociety 2 points3 points  (1 child)

              I want to believe this, because this is the view I hold, but where is a real peer reviewed psychological paper that backs this claim up? Is the correlation statistically significant? If so, what's the p-value?

              Quit making sweeping claims without empirical evidence - It makes us all look bad and perpetuates allegations of misogyny.

              [–]RavelsBolero 3 points4 points  (0 children)

              Just like the chinese and indians knew for thousands of years meditating is good for you (and now science is finding evidence it's true) we have also known all along women want strong men.

              It's really that simple. As shown, the science is playing catch up.

              [–]Nerian99 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              This doesn't refute charm and personality as a major factor. It only shows that being strong is attractive. All things the same being lean and strong is better, but a woman is going to be judging you on a lot more than that in real life. It also is ambiguous about whether or not there's a point of diminishing returns. I know for a fact women aren't swapping photos of fat powerlifters on their girly forums. In sum, yes lift weights, but it's not everything. 3-5 hours a week is more than enough. That leaves a lot of time. Most of your time should be spent on other things, money, social status, game, if you want to maximize your attractiveness. A lot of guys erroneously get obsessed with lifting as the panacea. They will take this study as meaning the more they deadlift the more girls they'll get. So he'll spend his life in the gym surrounded by large sweaty men grunting. Meanwhile the skinny musician guy is actually talking to girls and making their panties wet with his voice. The way I see it, get your noob gains, go to the gym 2-3 times a week, and move on with your life. Better to have 10 factors at 80% than 1 at 150%. My arms are 'dyel' mode to bodybuilder cultists, but are described as 'nice' by girls. You don't need much for a girl to be eye balling your arm as you fuck her. We are men. We put on muscle easily. Don't compare yourself to other men who lift, compare yourself to the average, and to women. If your arm is no bigger than a random girl's arm then you look like a girl, which is not attractive to a woman who is attracted to men. But it's pretty easy to fix that. As a man, muscle is your birth right, it's only a modern lifestyle that robs you of it. This is what women's brains evolved to expect to see: https://imgur.com/6mpo6yB - This guy doesn't lift weights, he just lives his life.

              [–]tibikush2012 3 points4 points  (5 children)

              How do you measure strength in photos?

              [–]fromdario[S] 6 points7 points  (3 children)

              "The researchers quantified the students' physical abilities via weightlifting machines, grip strength tests and other measures.... were asked to judge how attractive or strong they thought the men were, on a scale of 1 to 7. It turns out we are good at guessing a stranger's strength. Perceptions of strength closely aligned with the men's actual strength."

              [–]party_dragon 11 points12 points  (1 child)

              "grip strength" - those forearms tho <3

              [–]BusterVadge 4 points5 points  (0 children)

              In other news: The sky is blue, and water is wet.

              [–]dontgiveupcarib 3 points4 points  (3 children)

              So perma bulk >> lean aesthetics?

              [–]JedYorks 1 point2 points  (1 child)

              I want to lift today very bad, i had to be convinced to not go to the gym today because I just got hit by a car.lol!

              [–]MentalOnslaught 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              Sheesh, why is that Reddit so heavily moderated?

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