861
862

Red Pill TheoryWomen are as shitty as you let them be (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by TRP VanguardArchwinger

There is a lot of Red Pill advice out there that overlaps conventional advice for attracting women. (e.g., “Be attractive; don’t be unattractive.”) For example lifting weights until you have a rocking body, dressing well, grooming well, developing social aptitude, hobbies, skills, becoming professionally successful, well-connected. Being confident. Powerful. Having an awesome life.

In fact, all of that is pretty basic common sense. Everybody knows that all of the above traits will help your chances at having a great sex life, and even the ones that don’t help or help very little still can’t hurt you. In fact, a lot of these practices are just good life habits in general. It’s not surprising to think that a girl might be attracted to a guy who has good life habits and builds an awesome, healthy, successful life using those good habits.

The Red Pill part of all of this isn’t so much the notion that doing that shit is a good idea. Everyone knows exercise is good. It’s the emphasis on how incredibly important all of it is. The traits in those two paragraphs above are the absolute only things that matter to women. Those are what define your status. Your value. Nothing else matters.

All of that bullshit about talking to women, treating them well, having common interests, having compatible personalities, getting along as friends for awhile, then maybe moving things toward sex/relationships later? None of that matters. The only purpose behind the way you interact with a woman is that it signifies your status and value. For example, having a confident, non-socially-awkward personality, carrying yourself with muscular, confident, powerful body language, always being busy having shit to do and talk about – all of that is not, itself, attractive. But these things send the woman signals that the underlying person who has this personality and these behaviors is good looking, successful, social, skilled, and interesting. A valuable man.

Where “blue pill” people go wrong is seeing valuable men have success with women via these interactions with them, then leaping to the wrong conclusion. They conclude that if they do the same things -- talk to women, treat them well, have common interests, a pleasing personality, and get along as friends for awhile -- that this is what is attractive to women. That this will lead to success, just like it did for those valuable, high-status guys. But it doesn’t work. Guys who lack value but interact with women in a pleasing manner either become friends only, or get blown off entirely as creepy.

One might even say that all of this bullshit about common interests, being nice, being compatible, and getting along as friends is completely trivial. If you’re hot, successful, social, skilled, and interesting enough, you can be a complete asshole and women will still fuck you. Sometimes, they’ll even perceive that you’re not an asshole, but are, in fact, a sweet and misunderstood guy. When you’re a valuable, high-status guy, every single thing you do will be seen in the best light possible – even the asshole things. When you’re a low value man, every single thing you do is seen in the worst light possible – even the nice and well-intended things. Women think awesome assholes are funny. Women think low-value assholes are jerks. Women think awesome nice guys are sweet. Women think low-value nice guys are creepy.

Women mirror valuable men. Valuable men are the containers, while women are the liquid that fills the space they are given. Women who interact with valuable guys end up taking an interest in the valuable guy’s skills, hobbies, conversational topics – even if these things never interested the woman before. They suddenly notice how cool those things are and want to learn more. Likewise, when an awesome guy expresses displeasure or distances himself from something she does, she changes her behavior. She conforms to please him.

When a man is low-value, women laugh at the things he does, dub them loser activities, and distance themselves from his interests. This often leads to low-value men instead conforming themselves to try to please women, further signifying their low value. It’s also just plain off-putting. Who wants to fuck a man that acts like a woman?

Many modern women don’t have much going on in the way of personality, hobbies, skills, interests. You’d be hard pressed to pry a 20-something in 2015 away from her cell phone. The lives of most modern women consist of social media, eating out, buying clothes, and “dating” guys. The really deep ones maybe talk about music. They spend their time shallowly reflecting the guys they want to be with, latching on to the lives of their men.

It’s easy to hate them. To look down on them. In fact, The Red Pill encourages a negative view of women. Why? Because when you see women as non-unique, non-special beings, each one defined primarily by how much of a boner her appearance creates, you can approach them confidently, without really caring how things go. Because what’s it matter of one particular non-unique, non-special woman doesn’t fuck you tonight?

We see stories left and right of women acting up, cheating, dumping, divorcing, and generally being pretty shitty toward men who love them. But remember: Women mirror their men. If you’re a high-status, valuable man, everything you do looks like you’re glowing – even the asshole things – and your interests and goals seem downright cool to her. If your value is slipping, everything you do looks awkward and creepy – even the nice things – and your interests and goals look like loser stuff. High value men don’t stand for bad behavior. Low value men let it happen because they have nowhere else to go.

If a woman is being shitty to you, it’s because you’re letting her. She’s reflecting your own shittiness back at you. Women are only as shitty as you let them be.


[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorCopperFox3c 332 points333 points  (27 children)

If a woman is being shitty to you, it’s because you’re letting her. She’s reflecting your own shittiness back at you. Women are only as shitty as you let them be.

This underscores a subtle principle of TRP ... you are not a victim. The events around you, your relationships, your interactions with women, are all partially your responsibility. Yes, women suck sometimes, but that does not absolve you of fault.

We at TRP reject the "victim mentality" so prevalent in the modern West for this very reason. Pay close attention to this subtlety in TRP theory. Raise yourself up. Don't just get angry, get better.

[–]TRP VanguardHumanSockPuppet 121 points122 points  (14 children)

Indeed. When you stop being the victim, you start becoming the artist. You realize that everything in the world around you, including women themselves, are blank canvasses upon which you may paint your vision of pleasure.

  • Build your cave the way you want.

  • Make money the way you want.

  • Train your woman to be the kind of woman you want.

Everything is there for you to shape to your liking.

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Hell, at the very least you take action. Victims do not act, they are acted upon by those stronger than them

[–][deleted] 20 points21 points  (0 children)

But the thing is, what you're talking about is self-belief. Not one thing can you learn about yourself from a book, or someone elses' words. It's great to raise awareness that people can transcend group bullying and the fear of group punishment - because yes, everybody can.

But to think you can do that in a workshop and not through taking risk, being defeated and standing up and doing it all again and again. The great strengths come from devastations of the soul, the great moments of weakness and fear - and the courage to make the comeback. And sorry, you don't get that kind of courage from a dancefloor.

I can smell it, when someone is pretending to feel powerful because someone told them how to do it. It's a flash, it's the eyes, they don't even need to speak. I think a lot of people can.

I mean alright, read the books. But just know there are people who don't really fall for that, and it will always remain a vulnerability

[–]CynicsChoice 7 points8 points  (9 children)

Can you elaborate on "make money the way you want"? I hear this sort of sentiment all the time from veteran RPers and it completely mystifies me (also "making money is easy". Yeah, maybe if you already have the resources, education, and social skills to do it!)

There are millions of people who want to do things that people like to do. All of these people are in the market, looking to get paid to do those things, yet the market cannot support them. Hence, you can't make money doing those things. The only things that make real money are things that a) people don't like to do, but need to be done or b) are extremely hard to do, or many people haven't figured out how to do yet.

Almost every job that actually makes money is something completely fucking dreadful. The remainder have an extremely low percentage change of success - there's only enough money to support a small amount of rock stars, and only the very best make it. The rest will follow the advice of "make money the way you want" and try to be a rock star while waiting tables for their entire life until they give up and start taking a paycheck wherever they can get it. It has to be this way, most of them have to fail. They might even be extremely good, but it doesn't matter, because only the BEST can actually survive doing whatever they want. So sayeth the market.

[–]Benny757 15 points16 points  (2 children)

A 51 year old timer here. Live within your means. You can still have a great life. Making money is great. Under Maslow's hierarchy, you better be taking care of business first. Women are unnecessary if you aren't. You need to get your shit in order. That might mean long hours, 2-3 jobs, but always be improving yourself. If you are a crew member at a Trader Joes, apply TRP principals and be the best effin crew member. Transcend average. Tell yourself, "Today, I will kick ass. and then I will do it again, and again, and yes, forever again." You get to choose to be the best in class. Then others that matter, and with power will notice you. And you will be given "opportunity." And there you see, your SMV (NOT just sexual market value) social market value starts to rise.

Life is not just social acceptance by women (who are all AWALT remember) Life is about those little daily kick ass things you can do to be the fucking best rock star at what you do. All these things you do for you will add up to your net worth and productivity in the system. The system is business, economy, daily life, the machine. Embrace, risk, conquer. This is your LIFE. It is not "her" life. Don't you dare live in "her" frame for you will be miserable, and your relationship will fail miserably. All men, if they are to amount to worthy men, must pursue self-actualization. Today it might mean 2-3 jobs providing for your basic needs. Tomorrow, it might mean reporting on the front lines of war, or you may be doing the fighting. This world is endless. Abundance mentality also lends itself abundance of opportunities or "choices" for where you will determine to take yourself. Abundance in women? For a guy who is deciding to be kick ass and is doing things, I say yes. They don't want you in their frame. You are worse than a dog if you are there. They want to be in your frame. They really do. Getting pulled into her frame is your fault, and your poor life choice. It's a tough lesson.

<Edited for spelling>

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yup exactly this. In other words who gives a fuck what a women thinks about you! Build your life the way you want to. Take it day by day. Build for the future. Not for what feels good now. Reals before feels lol

[–]fiddel_fabulous 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In the mind the world is endless, in reality it is finite.

[–]redestofthereds 4 points5 points  (0 children)

All my life I wanted to be a writer. I didn't know what kind of writer but I just knew I wanted to be one. I never attempted it because I believed that in order to make a living as a writer, you had to go to school and hope for the outside chance that you might land a job at some magazine or that you have to be some sort of lonely starving novelist grinding away on the keyboard.

A month or two ago I decided that I wanted to make a living as a copywriter. Zero experience. No contacts in the industry.

I opened an Upwork account. With only two portfolio pieces that I've done for free I have managed to get a client that was willing to pay $100 to get written content for his newly build website.

My short term goal is to have an income of at least $1000 a week. Yeah it's lofty as fuck but I'm pretty sure I could do it.

Can you elaborate on "make money the way you want"? I hear this sort of sentiment all the time from veteran RPers and it completely mystifies me (also "making money is easy". Yeah, maybe if you already have the resources, education, and social skills to do it!)

Search for a way to make money online by doing what you like. Yeah it might seem like a Moby Dick of an endeavor but trust me, it's very possible.You could do it homie.

[–]1PrinceofSpades 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Granted, I'm speaking from a lunch break at a shitty job right now, so I'm not speaking from personal experience any longer (I miss being the goods provider working my own hours so much), but the point of TRP on this is that those men are successful because they are alpha, and they are alpha because they are successful. It's a vicious cycle that continues to trim away those who bend or break leaving only the strongest left. Those men deserve those positions, because when opportunity finally came knocking, they were already ready for it. Too many people find opportunity first, then try to match it afterwards.

[–]1jcromero 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Philosophy Time: There's a really old question that dates back all the way to the pre-Socratic Greeks about what's called "Determinism". Determinism is the belief that factors outside of our control (the will of God, the ills of the society, a bad economy, etc.). The details of this has heavy impacts on the status of our own personal self.

It boils down to one central question: How can I be truly free if everything around me has already been decided?

In very RECENT philosophy (Zizek's book Less Than Nothing, 2012) we see a new solution. We are both radically free and unfree. Our history circumstance (like patterns of things that we do or where we grew up) determine us. But we're also able to decide exactly how that history affects us.

To speak to your example: Yes, the market is bad. It's a bitter truth that one must accept. But how does that stop you from pursuing what fulfills you? We've all had to work soul crushing jobs. But that should motivate you to improve your life circumstances rather than wallow in misery. Always work towards the dream.

[–]CynicsChoice 1 point2 points  (1 child)

It's very much like Dennett saying "stop telling people they don't have free will". Even if you don't have free will, it turns out that a really good solution to the question of how to act (in fact, the solution that evolution has given us) is to act as if you and everyone around you actually has free will. That's the strategic answer to a hard philosophical question.

What I'm not sure of is why chasing dreams is a strategically good choice, in spite of the fact that it looks to be statistically a very dumb move. Maybe it makes sense to invest in some soul crushing job for 5 or 10 years and then explore the world with the money you get from it, and be in a better position to actually accomplish your dreams. But maybe the psychological harm done by that makes it not worth it. Possibly the lack of passion for such a job will keep you from even succeeding at getting it! There are many factors that go into that strategic choice, and I haven't heard them articulated well.

[–]1jcromero 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Dennett's view on the mind is pretty important since it's essentially the backbone of American philosophy of mind. The easy metaphor to think about his thought is that the human mind is like a computer: There's hardware and software. However there's quite a few problems with his views, one being uncomfortably submissive to scientific theory (a mirror to how much of pre-Kantian modern philosophy was insanely submissive towards Christianity).

For my on why this is a HUGE problem I suggest checking out "The View From Nowhere". But anyway...

What your second paragraph essentially boils down to distinction between existentialism vs. utilitarianism as ethical systems. Does physical well being outweigh existential fulfillment? I tend to take the modern psychology route, that both are important. A comfortable life with no purpose is ultimately dry and empty. But how can one work hard and sacrifice for one's dream without enough food to eat? It's a balance between both of those.

For career counselors, they tend to advice people to try to fulfill three criteria for an ideal job:

-Matches your interests (which is usually measured by the Strong Interest Inventory) -What you have a skill set in (most people don't have the skill or inclination to be good programmers, for instance) -What your values are (Do you value money? Power? Material comforts? Purpose? Peace? Helping others? Passing down knowledge? etc.)

[–]vostronicle 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Take sales for example, nearly everyone "isn't a salesman", I don't know if it's the negative social stereotypes or a self concept that doesn't include walking vulnerably into the unknown (I think the latter). But in the right industry sales has almost unlimited earning potential.

Something like sales often isn't someone's dream job or what they "want to do". Some of the richest, most fulfilled men I know are in sales, they are naturally red pill as hell, are qualified up to the eyeballs but arn't working in the field they trained in, why? Because they (and i) realised that doing "what you love" often doesn't pay very well, and is often rooted in childhood roles played in the family (good singer, writer, listener, what your dad did/was interested in). Something like sales can be an avenue to start living your own life and not "being" your profession ("I'm an_______" because it has social value).

Not only that but with it comes the financial freedom to start doing things outside of your usual sphere, experimenting and deciding what you actually enjoy. You choose the meaning you ascribe to your job, it can be an end unto itself or it can be a means to an end, the end being your life, your pleasure, opportunities etc.

You have a history, you can look back and regret or you can "choose" to own what you have chosen, choose yourself, choose your parents, choose your job. All these things are yours anyway, but when you consciously choose them, own them, you access for example resilience from surviving a broken childhood rather than the victim mentality that comes when it "happened to you".

[–]Senior ContributorNightwingTRP 13 points14 points  (1 child)

This underscores a subtle principle of TRP ... you are not a victim. The events around you, your relationships, your interactions with women, are all partially your responsibility. Yes, women suck sometimes, but that does not absolve you of fault.

And to complete the thought: the Red Pill man has enough self respect that he won't tolerate those women who suck being in his life because there are always more options. The responsibility is yours because you are making the decision as to whether or not a woman is allowed into your life.

[–]Benny757 1 point2 points  (0 children)

And the options are abundant! Life is not just about women. But a bad woman in your life can ruin it. Life is FULL of opportunity, and full of options. But, what you do with those options...where your hard work and exceptional decision making will take you, who can say?? Could be anywhere. But it is up to you to set the stage, cast off the lines, and set saillllll Girl dumps you, or you dump the girl, experience a set-back (LIKE WE ALL DO), Re-set stage, scrape off the barnacles, smile and laugh at your outrageous effed up self, re-frame for a while, and set sail! Self respect, just like Nightwing above says. Self respect. Fuck em all. Re-frame, set sail, repeat. Only each alone can make it a lovely cruise.

[–]WhyIsYosarionNaked 3 points4 points  (0 children)

This underscores a subtle principle of TRP ... you are not a victim. The events around you, your relationships, your interactions with women, are all partially your responsibility. Yes, women suck sometimes, but that does not absolve you of fault.

Amen. Just because something isn't your fault doesn't mean that it's not your responsibility.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

On that note I think that actually gives you power. Don't like how something turned out? The ball's in your court and if you really want something you just have to decide to play and it will happen.

[–]billythebeta 3 points4 points  (0 children)

There is a subtle distinction to be made here, though. Knowing how to play the game is one thing, but recognizing that many modern women are generally shitty people is another. I hold every human responsible for their own actions-- this includes high n-count whores and whatnot too. Plays into abundance mentality a bit-- I feel no need to raise my standards of a good human being just because someone is a woman, even though I will raise my own standards to keep a woman in her place.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I'd say in every single situation, every party involved somehow had some form of responsibility. You could assign a percentage to the responsibility and it might be possible someone was the main culprit, however that doesn't excuse the fact that the other parties involved still had a level of responsibility. You must always learn from the situations you encounter in life, regardless if you were responsible or not.

[–]ihateyouguys 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I do assign percentages. Each person is 100% responsible for their own experience.

[–]chewis 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm an addict in recovery and one of the biggest things they tell us is "life is 10% happens to you and 90% what you do with it". Love it, it always makes me think of TRP.

[–]rp_newdawn 1 point2 points  (0 children)

so crucial. thank you for emphasizing this

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is the problem with the Men's Rights Activists. They're playing the victim. They have good intentions, but they go about it in completely the wrong way. Whining and pining for equality as a man makes people see you as less than equal.

It's unfortunate for them, but it's like you said: don't just get angry, get better.

[–]scoupafi 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I try to implement such a mentallity but I find myself divided by other core TRP principles such as the 'you should never give women free attention' etc.

If she's acting shitty, wouldn't you enter her frame by trying to change that?

[–][deleted] 49 points50 points  (2 children)

Good post.

A lot of what red pill is about is understanding what people can do without another's consent. Can you make sure that people are gonna pay the bill? No, but you can refuse to put the utilities in your name even without their permission. Can you make sure that your date won't flake? No, but she can't stop you from scheduling three that night and playing the odds. Any time, other than a false rape accusation, that a woman fucks with a man, she had his consent. He allowed her to be the central jewel in his life. He agreed to sign the marriage contract. You don't have to allow women to be shitty.

You can lift and develop abundance to knock her out of that jewel seat. You can refuse to get married. You can walk away or threaten to if she won't play your game. Blue pill hates that we figured that out. Yes men lack rights and many of us will walk away from more than we wanted to; I'd personally like to get married if I lived in an alternate world. However, the ability to walk away is almost always open. Feminism can't take that away from us and so long as men have it, men will always have some strategy or level of control.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 12 points13 points  (0 children)

+1

However, the ability to walk away is almost always open.

The feminist response to men having options is to get her options cast into legal stone. Workplace "positive" discrimination, shutting down dissent on her special snowflake victim status, government support from your tax. It's all there, and you can't walk away from any of it.

But as you say - you plan everything else that you still can control. And marriage is the worst of all options.

[–]alpha_buffalo 8 points9 points  (0 children)

You can walk away or threaten to if she won't play your game.

The most important weapon in gender relations. Set precedents, set benchmarks. Like a stockmarket suspend trading, cancel licenses if the participant does not comply. My ex always used to complain that everything was like a test. How she felt is not my business. What is my business and within my control was that the ship was not compromised and any weaknesses were dealt with immediately. I detached my emotions and was able to make clear decisions. Ultimately she failed the test though I gave her several chances. The result - Im happy and unscathed.

[–]Endorsed ContributorThotwrecker 139 points140 points x2 (22 children)

Yeah, I see this in a lot of "She WAS a unicorn but it turned out she was just a ho, she cheated and lied to me. AWALT" posts.

Of course, at the beginning she didn't know you were a beta. You ran your game tight, you were not in love so you didn't do dumb shit like let her flake on you or cut other female leads off for her. So of course she behaved like a unicorn; she thought you were a real alpha and she acted accordingly.

Once you fell in love and started to prioritize her needs, accept bratty behavior from her, and revealed your weak spots to her, the illusion is shattered in her mind. You are now scratching your head because you thought she was a unicorn. No, she has a dualistic nature - she behaves one way around alphas, and one way around betas.

I've met plenty of girls I thought were treating me really well and basically seemed feminine, sweet, caring, and sexy. Yet then I discover they have 3-4 beta orbiters who they exploit and treat like shit, and they are even semi-aware of it. What's going on here? She has contempt and disdain for men who are lower status than her, she has respect and attraction for men who are higher status. The orbiter and I each experience a completely different woman.

But if I fuck up a few times, I'll get that same side of her that the orbiters see. She thought I was a male unicorn (natural alpha who for some mysterious reason wants to be with her) and when she thought that, she knew I was a huge catch and she had to be perfect to keep me. If you shatter that illusion in her mind, she will take it out on me.

This is why marriage is unforgiving. You must be on an upwards trajectory your whole damn married life. You must be better than her and she has to know without a doubt that you will require her best if she is to keep you.

Beta males are the same. They are only as good as they have to be to avoid negative consequences. If they could get hot girls while being a fat ugly slob, they would never go to the gym and only own sweatpants. If they were offered a 100k / yr salary to sit on their ass, they would never learn another skill or work hard at developing their career in any way. As Dave Chappelle says, "if women would fuck guys in a cardboard box, guys wouldn't have houses." Women having high standards is the only thing that makes these guys get up off their ass and do something proactive to build value.

Women being the way they are (their behavior reflecting how they perceive your status) should hopefully be very motivational to guys on here.

[–]el_superbeastooo 19 points20 points  (1 child)

Beta males are the same. They are only as good as they have to be to avoid negative consequences.

Your comment is full of good observations but the above quote hits hard. BP me definitely behaved this way in the past. Great analysis, I'll be thinking about this for a few days.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Man... that did hit hard. I have some self reflecting to do.

[–]BradPill 36 points37 points  (10 children)

And if the Alpha, for whatever reason, runs into a massive unfortunate situation, his 'beautiful' wife may leave him overnight. Go talk to Wall Street bankers after the crash of 2008. It was not their fault, yet their wives thought differently, as they were not longer 'royalty' - so no loyalty.

[–]1whatsazipper 13 points14 points  (3 children)

I'm sure there is a significant population of men who came to understand the red pill through this very situation. Being very successful, and then subsequently circling the drain, gives you the hard experience necessary to understand the full range of female behavior.

Even the most well adjusted of women has descended from those capable of stabbing a man in the back when he's down. It's strictly business, albeit reproductive business. It's a liability for a fertile woman to stick with a loser, even if his losing is temporary. From a reproductive risk assessment, it's better to branch swing while milking the remaining arrangement for what's left.

[–]fingerthemoon 8 points9 points  (1 child)

When I stumbled and fell my fiance branch-swung. That really wasn't surprising but the way my loving, nurturing, sweet, kind little lady turned into a heartless, manipulative, selfish bitch was surprising.

Until I found evo psych and then TRP, I was under the illusion that I had simply picked a bad one. Now I can see that there's a very low probability that any woman will stand by her man while he's down.

[–]1whatsazipper 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Until I found evo psych and then TRP, I was under the illusion that I had simply picked a bad one. Now I can see that there's a very low probability that any woman will stand by her man while he's down.

Yeah, instead of having picked a bad one, you picked a normal one.

[–]the_colon_poweler 1 point2 points  (0 children)

From a reproductive risk assessment, it's better to branch swing while milking the remaining arrangement for what's left.

Cruelly accurate, but some need to see this. Sadly it shows more than anything how the female gender tend to dwell within animal behavior instead of being above our 4 legged friends.

[–]squeadle 12 points13 points  (0 children)

royalty = loyalty is pretty catchy, I like that

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Was this really common? Like Managing Directors at Lehman that couldn't find jobs and their wives left them?

[–]BradPill 2 points3 points  (3 children)

It's a universal, 'common' thing among hi-flyers. Once their husband loses his position and status (job, fortune), many wives will not support him any longer. Or even, as pointed out, if he ends up in a dead-end job: not making partner or the board. No matter what he achieved previously, no matter what he (still) brings home, she now looks at him as a loser. Those women are vicious: they will not actively support him while things are going fine - yet, they will hold it against him (either openly or under the surface) if he doesn't succeed. Also because other wives in her social circle will now feel sorry for her (crocodile tears...), as he didn't make it - their lives are solely based on his achievements.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Jesus. Can you think of any high profile cases?

[–]BradPill 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Not specifically. But, it will never become public as such.

I know a former commodity trader - together with his 4 partners he lost it all in 2008: one of them jumped out of the window, the other one his wife walked out - he himself sat down with his wife and they decided to move closer to their families - having to give up their small-town jet-set life (not sure what happened to the other 2 partners).

It's pretty common knowledge, I would think? Look around in your own town, talk to people closer to those circles (tennis, golf-clubs, charity etc.).

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You've watched "the wolf of Wall Street"?

[–]ModRedSovereign 5 points6 points  (2 children)

This is why marriage is unforgiving. You must be on an upwards trajectory your whole damn married life.

Your whole post was riddled with gems, but this right here is gold. It doesn't matter that you're successful, charming, attractive; if you're not constantly on the up, her hypergamous senses will tingle and you'll be out the door in no time.

Do not get married.

[–]Endorsed ContributorRedPillDad 3 points4 points  (0 children)

An upwards trajectory is true in the younger years. Past forty, comparative value starts to swing in a guy's favor, provided he hasn't slipped into a submissive beta fog.

For a woman, retaining a masculine husband is a delicious source of envy.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It's funny how hypergamy works. Imagine Girl is a 6, Man is a 8. Hypergamy engine kicks in and generates tingles. Girl now desires Man. If Man associates with Girl, Girl now obtains value of Man! Girl is now 8 while Man is 8. Hypergamy engine shuts off. Tingles stop. Girl stops desiring Man. Branch swings to higher value man...

You basically HAVE TO maintain that SMV differential. That's why negs work, that's why lifting works, that's why dread work, that's why marriage is playing on hard mode.

[–]199639 12 points13 points  (3 children)

This is a great post overall but specifically I liked how you mentioned continuous upward trajectory. It's not the position that women are attracted to, it's the change of position. Men like to feel the acceleration of a car, women like to feel the acceleration of your life. A rich guy is attractive to a woman who is poorer than him, but if she spends a little bit of time with that guy (months or years) and he's merely maintaining that level of wealth she will lose interest. You have to be constantly increasing. It's like a tolerance develops to wealth and status and you need ever higher doses to feel the same rush. This is fundamentally why marriage (or any form of life long monogamy) will often fail.

[–]Endorsed ContributorThotwrecker 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Yeah, the way girls feel around alphas is literally a drug. You have to keep giving whatever your giving to her in stronger doses or she will seek it elsewhere. For example, Bar Refaeli complaining about how she cannot find any men to date her.

Half the male population would chop a nut off to bust the other nut in her, but since she dated Leo, one of the highest SMV men, she could only get the same "high" from a more attractive, more wealthy, more famous bachelor.

If you are married and win the lottery, don't tell your wife. You'll go broke in a few years trying to live the lifestyle she always felt she deserved. Invest your money and give yourself progressively larger yearly "bonuses"- use the money to ensure that every year, you can upgrade your lifestyle some. Invest the money in yourself (great personal trainer, career development, coaching in hobbies that are important to you, and steady pipeline of upgrades to your lifestyle.

[–]fingerthemoon 4 points5 points  (1 child)

It's ironic that she wants you to be constantly improving while at the same time her value is decreasing because of age.

[–]1whatsazipper 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It leads to an interesting paradox. Women demand more as they age, but they have less to offer.

As for dealing with women who start getting used to your status, dread and not being locked down are strong reminders.

[–]momomotorboat 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This is why marriage is unforgiving. You must be on an upwards trajectory your whole damn married life. You must be better than her and she has to know without a doubt that you will require her best if she is to keep you.

This is a great way to encapsulate what I've come to learn about marriage, thanks to TRP. We seem to think marriage is the escalation of an LTR, the next step up. We see it that way thanks to our emotions. But in the eyes of the law, it is a legally binding contract that skews heavily in favor of the woman.

Marriage is TRP on hard mode because the ultimate dread card - walking away - has been neutered beyond recognition. You somehow have to conjure up that level of dread with your wits and frame while simultaneously having all your flaws out in the open and being liable at all times.

I've reached the point of swallowing the pill where I don't recognize the part of me that fantasized marriage way back when. Sheesh.

And +1 for the Chappelle quote.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Women being the way they are (their behavior reflecting how they perceive your status) should hopefully be very motivational to guys on here.

But would it be helpful? Is it truly descriptive of the facts on the ground? Motivational, yes, I get it. It's an easy premise, with blanket application and may give the illusion of control or understanding... but where is the evidence that any human being acts in such a simplistic manner?

Sure, it plays a role. For all of us. Perhaps for males, more than females. Your hierarchical repositionings contain more risk. We can't ignore evolutionary history, the dynamics of nature and the deep pull of instinct. But this is only one lens, at one aperture - and to take such a narrow view misleads. Shine a torch in one place, yes, you illuminate it, but it makes everything else around harder to see

The point is, to reduce a human being to a simple sum of numbers and values will only give you an inaccurate and non-descriptive model. Such a thing is useless in terms of predictive ability. To give yourself confidence through wilful belief, I get, it's a trick, it helps. But like a crutch, we'll only be able to walk, not run. The illusion will hold us back.

[–][deleted] 21 points22 points  (0 children)

Crossposted this to Married Red Pill.

Most new posters coming in blame their wife for everything wrong... This is exactly the message they need to internalize.

[–][deleted] 17 points18 points  (5 children)

I think the problem I have is being too much off putting, no directly or honesty about wanting sex. The result being sometimes I feel like girls are attracted to me but I'm not going for it, just doing my own shit.

Now I'm just thinking someday I internalize being honest, just go get what I want seeing them for what they are, no holy light or anything and definitely with no hesitation. Of course improve the smv along the way.

Just not sure where this hesitation is coming from, really thinking maybe its like I know if I give them attention too freely I'm being a sucker so instead I over-deattach to not risk. This is just not manly.

[–][deleted] 18 points19 points  (2 children)

Your hesitation stems from you spending too much time inside your head, listening to your Ego. It is a conflict where two forces struggle for separate goals. Your Ego is watching out for itself through self-preservation. Its tactic is to rationalize why you should not undertake a specific action. You on the other hand want something, in this situation, being sexual with someone.

You are judging yourself internally (not manly) and externally (off-putting). Reality seems to be completely different. You describe that you sense attraction from these people you want to be sexual with.

It is a process, and it does take time and practice to soothe and train the Ego to quiet down. Through exposing it to different stress-inducing scenarios, you and it will realize that there is often nothing to fear.

There more you undertake this process, the more in congruence your actions will be with your mind. You will feel natural and genuine. When you start feeling this, the previously preferred outcome will lose its relevance. The process will be the reward. Everything else will be a welcome bonus, but no longer anything of absolute need.

The Ego is a tricky devil. It wants both to do no work and at the same time achieve the most profound result. This is no healthy state to have, it will stress people out, causing suffering. However, reaching a calm mental state where the Ego is submissive requires us to undertake even greater stress, although often in bursts.

This has been my approach. I am making progress. My Ego is settling down more oft.

[–]Epoh 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It’s created suffering in me for a long time, and I’m still recovering from the victimhood and emotional struggles of past mental issues. But when I was socially ‘on’, I threw myself into scenarios not caring how I was judged because the reward was tangible and I felt with my new found self that I could get that reward, which I often did.

Unfortunately, I’ve fallen back into being a bitch again playing head games with myself. But I know that at least and the ego hasn’t won just yet.

Exactly what you said though, when I began to act regardless of my ego’s concern for others judgments, safety, self-preservation I actually ended up being happier and felt more comfortable in myself than ever before. For now I do this sporadically because as I said I’m a bitch right now, but if acted upon consistently there’s no telling where you can go.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

thanks for sharing, you're right about spending time in your head . I know since these days I'm a little bit better since I been lifting. Once I am a bit confident, see myself as a physical asset, I been able to sometimes just say things that on my mind, be open more, since I star to believe girls see my better body as an asset

[–]night_rider1991 8 points9 points  (1 child)

Same problem with me. I enjoy my life too much sometimes that I completely ignore girls

Not my intention to be a dick but mostly operating on a "don't show too much interest" and doing the same as you. Being a recovering beta, I'm still shaky on how to get my interest across attractively

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

yea like this. for me I forgot to mention sometimes if you're not careful its the other way around, you think about this pretty girl that probably don't have an attraction for you other than a smile and you're slapping yourself in the head trying to snap out of it. This comes up for me sometimes and now I'm more careful about glamorizing girls-

[–][deleted] 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Women are only as shitty as you let them be

True. A universal truth that applies to kids, dogs, employees, friends and anyone else you interact with. tl;dr grow a backbone and don't be a pussy.

[–]NaughtyFred 16 points17 points  (39 children)

Does trp have advice for guys here who will (for whatever reason) never be facially attractive or rich?

[–]TRP VanguardArchwinger[S] 47 points48 points  (11 children)

You ever notice how women think that ugly actors or musicians are cute? And they're not just lying about thinking these guys are cute just because they're rich/famous. Their minds actually perceive an ugly man as better-looking than he actually is if that ugly man happens to also be a famous actor or musician.

And never underestimate how far an absolutely rocking body can take you.

[–]slay_it_forward 34 points35 points  (3 children)

See: Ed Sheeran

Gorgeous women line up to fuck that guy. Without his musical talent he'd be hard pressed to land a 6 in western countries. Girls say, "he's so cute" all the time, but these same women would be saying how creepy that ginger is that just came and said hello to me on the street if he wasn't famous.

Funny how it doesn't work the same for men. Amy Schumer will always be a 6 regardless of how many movies she makes.

[–]ItsNotShane 12 points13 points  (0 children)

deleted What is this?

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

[deleted]

    [–]diomedes777[🍰] 17 points18 points  (0 children)

    A 6? What planet are you on? She is a literal 1. She repulses me, everything about her is hideous. She knows she is revolting and she also knows no men are or will be physically attracted to her, no matter how successful she is, so she does the whole "confident woman" not-so-subtle feminist man-hating (Proud of her ugliness, quirkiness etc, gives up on even trying to be an attractive female). It's quite sad.

    It's funny that the women who end up like this are almost exclusively unattractive (Clementine Ford springs to mind). It's as if they are in an unconscious war with their biology and instinct that is screaming to them that they are useless as a woman (they're ugly) and therefore redundant as a human being. That is essentially what feminism is. Not smoking hot women give a fuck about feminism and the ones who claim they do are lying.

    The "real" feminists like Schumer and Ford are in a state of eternal conflict with their biology that is telling them they are a failure, and so they take this rage out on the gender that wants nothing to do with them because of evolution. Lol

    [–]The_BeardedGentleman 32 points33 points  (1 child)

    Been to So many shows with chicks... They always think the most pleb looking piece of shit is hot, because he sings for the band. It's crazy how much smv warps perception.

    [–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (1 child)

    I don't know if they had it in the states, but there was a great show called in the VIP. Basically a gameshow on PUA.

    Best scene I can remember was the speed number. guys had to see who could get a number the fastest. First guy went through all kinds of crazy routines etc. The second guy? Wasn't a bar star, didn't have the clothes (well fitted, but no peacocking or bling) but won by a landslide.

    Walked up to a girl, said hi, grabbed her hand, put it on his abs, and asked her for her phone number. Was 45 seconds, the 4 hosts went ballistic.

    [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    Keys to the VIP based out of Toronto. Good show.

    [–]alpha_buffalo 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    ''If you are rich you are handsome". Greek saying.

    I absolutely think attraction is Demand & Supply where looks are a composite function that make up the supply curve. I have a really aesthetic face but I know my body negatively devalues my looks. That being said, strengthening other areas, body, posture, confidence, dress (presentation), visible charisma - all can positively increase the composite supply function of looks.

    What the market demands is open to anything and changes with every market participant (woman). Some prefer money, body, perceived power etc.

    [–]ColdEiric -1 points0 points  (1 child)

    Imagine if you were unaware of how your perception of one woman changed as she accomplished something great. Imagine that she got hotter as she did more awesome stuff. Imagine that she got hotter than her equal twin who stood there and did absolutely nothing.

    Wouldn't you too be furious if you heard women talking that men can't judge thing as clearly as women can?

    [–]oxidation420 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Fortunately, this isn't something I need to concern myself about.

    [–]RetiredTimeHo 36 points37 points  (3 children)

    get as buff and lean as you can

    dress/groom as well as you can

    get as rich as you can

    being short, ugly, bald etc is genetic. change what you can or shut the fuck up. no one pities your genetic misfortune

    [–][deleted] 31 points32 points  (1 child)

    To echo what you've said: if you're short, ugly, bald, can't be motivated to lift and/or make bank, women not wanting to fuck you is evolution working.

    [–]1Jaereth 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    Build your body to make up for it and achieve as much status as you can in your career/socially. I'd almost always rank Body and Social Proof above "face" in importance.

    [–]1Jax77789 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Be King in a world you and the woman you want share.

    [–]2Deapluv 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Absolutely echo the other responses to this.

    Part of the reason I picked up playing in a band. You don't even have to be good. In fact you can be downright terrible and it still works lol

    [–]25russianbear25 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Do all the basic shit you learn from TRP

    One tip i never see is if youre a 1 dont expect to go for a 10 or 9, 8.

    Improve yourself and dont be scared of dating women in your league

    [–]BradPill 0 points1 point  (17 children)

    Buy a guitar at the pawn shop, learn to play a few songs, learn a few rock names and trivia, be 'mysterious', be bohemian, be semi-Alpha - if it works for all the other posers, it should work for you :)

    [–]NaughtyFred -3 points-2 points  (16 children)

    I actually played electric guitar for a while (EVH was and still is my idol, so I'm no poser), but the fretwork made one forearm very veiny like a compulsive masturbator. Figured it wasn't a good look.

    [–]BradPill 12 points13 points  (14 children)

    So.... You let your perception stop you? Being afraid of the opinion of others about "your arm"? Sorry Fred, your original comment about "never being facially attractive" (subjective already...) is not about your face - it is about your deeper insecurities - your Phantom of the Opera looks are just your excuse. And why would you never be rich? That is typical pauper socialist talk: "a penny never becomes a dime". I call BS. That is defeatism.
    Start working out, looking like an ambidextrous compulsive masturbator, pick up that guitar, devour The Sidebar and start slaying like Eddie & DLR.

    [–]NaughtyFred 0 points1 point  (13 children)

    The only part of that which remotely offended me is being labelled a socialist! Thanks for the pep talk :)

    Seriously though, the majority of 6-figure earners on rp have stated careers such as lawyers, upper-level management and entrepreneurs and have vocation-oriented University degrees. Do you really think such occupations and financial/educational achievements are within the reach of every single subscriber to this sub?

    [–]MrMetalFingers 13 points14 points  (0 children)

    Fred, I left my last job 5 years ago, which consisted of slinging pizzas and cleaning toilets. I was fed up with menial service jobs and spent a week filling out applications in the local industrial park. Nailed an entry-level position with no experience making just about the same shitty wage. The guys working beside me complained about the shitty work and the shitty pay, but I knew something that they didn't... I saw the opportunity and the path upward.

    When I said I wanted to run the joint, my peers laughed it off. I was 30 years old and doing kid work. I never stopped expressing this desire to myself or to others. But I studied the industry, read the books, took ANY opportunity to LEARN from the people above me, and here I am 5 years later -- the lead foreman of the very tool shop that hired me a few years ago... I work directly under the President and make a very decent wage (just crossed the big six-fig mark, yay!). This is not to gloat by any means; I'm just trying to say that if this high school grad can put in the work, stay humble, learn, and NEVER BE AFRAID to take chances, you are almost GUARANTEED to make your vision a reality.

    Just make sure your vision is what you really want. I personally find my work fascinating, but getting dirty can seem "blue-collar" or below some types of people. I say fuck 'em. More fun for me!!

    [–]TRP VanguardArchwinger[S] 5 points6 points  (8 children)

    I'm a lawyer. I make decent money. But I live in a neighborhood with a mechanic who owns his own shop in a lucrative area, a whole bunch of contractors who do construction jobs, guys who manage sales accounts for all kinds of businesses, and even a couple that runs an online business.

    I am the white trash in my neighborhood. I and my multiple degrees make less than guys with BAs in business who handle sales accounts or construction contracts.

    The guys in my subdivision who followed the traditional route of college degree and working for big companies -- other lawyers or people who work for insurance companies and shit like that -- their wives are usually lawyers or corporate employees, too. They both have to work just to make ends meet.

    [–]IGoYouStayTwoAutumns 3 points4 points  (4 children)

    Someone needs to do a post about this. Lately I've been noticing: it seems like all the guys with the (multiple) advanced degrees, the dual law / MBA types etc, while they're doing okaaayyyy, money-wise, it seems like more and more the really well off guys I'm meeting, the ones really killing it, are the ones who said Fuck the system (academically) early on, dropped out of a college (if they even went in the first place), started a business (often a really "boring", straightforward one, like "I sell toilet paper to hotels"), and they're just absolutely killing it, making money hand over fist (think this was one of the big points in The Millionaire Next Door, as I recall). I used to live in NYC, and if you met someone in their late 20s, they were likely just wrapping up school, and only then looking to FINALLY get into the job market. Out here in LA, I met a guy who was 27 a little while back, dude owned several extremely well known, well attended bar / lounge / restaurants, and he was already working on his next. (Clearly he got on early start...)

    As someone who spent a long time in academia, it's been pretty eye opening, to see the number of people who have fairly little formal education and are just killing it, in an entrepreneur sense. Definitely a topic worth exploring more.

    [–]TRP VanguardArchwinger[S] 4 points5 points  (2 children)

    It's a high risk undertaking and very hard work. For every kickass entrepreneur, there are 100 failures who put in backbreaking work and still didn't make it.

    [–]IGoYouStayTwoAutumns 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    True--after reading Fooled By Randomness (Nassim Taleb, guy who wrote The Black Swan) I thought the same thing: maybe it's all just confirmation bias, you only see and meet the winners, so you assume that's all there are (winners)--the losers aren't out and about shouting about their losses, so we never see them, so we assume they aren't there.

    Still, the older I get and the more people I meet the more it seems like financial success and formal education really aren't nearly as directly correlated as I'd once thought (which is to say, as society had told me they were my entire life). Will have too look more into this.

    [–]Algernoq 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    society had told me they were my entire life

    Yup. Engineer here. Pay is middle-class but I'll always be a cost center unless I get my shit together.

    [–]TRP VanguardCyralea 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    You can just as easily transition from one to the other. Get a degree, build some capital with your middle-class income, start up a business. Going right into business by taking huge loans and no backup capital is very risky, not really recommended unless you have a passion for that kind of thing.

    [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    I am an electrical engineer with an MS that has been expatriate in a developing country for the last three years. Regularly we have to do inventory inspection with the customer so they will sign off and pay for the equipment that has been delivered. This is dirty, tiresome manual labor.

    The upside is that I get to bank almost six figures in cash every year. I have $0 debt. I also get airfare and $1000 in play money for two, two-week R&Rs every year. I'm so close to Europe that I can get a round-trip flight for less than $200 many weekends.

    Thus, it is a bit silly that I have an MS, but I ask, is my situation any more ridiculous than PhD students and post-docs who are $200k in debt, slaving away for $20k under a tyrannical tenured professor who still has 10 or 15 years left before retirement?

    [–]ProductivityMonster 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Live on 50K and invest the rest for early retirement. You probably should be living in a worse neighborhood TBH. You likely fell into the common trap of increasing your lifestyle pretty much proportionally with your income. It's hard to decrease your standard of living now but not too difficult to not increase it all that much when you get more money.

    [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Hey, also worked as a lawyer. Lawyers dont make that much, like you say the guy who owns the smash repair shop makes as much or more. My advice to you is dont be a lawyer, but own a law firm. That is what I did and it changed everything. I would say the same thing to a plumber, dont be a plumber, own a plumbing company. Noone ever ran an empire while they worked for someone else. Open your own firm, NOW. If you want advice how PM me.

    [–]BradPill 2 points3 points  (2 children)

    Socialist thinking - not calling you a socialist...

    There you go again: comparing yourself with others. Do you believe all those guys here? You know them personally? Sat next to them in their Tesla's? Or in their mom's basement?

    No. Not in reach of every single subscriber. As you need some intelligence. And discipline. And motivation. And a plan. And yes, money as well (in the US for sure, as education doesn't come cheap - hence loans). However, There are too many lawyers already. Working in a firm is like a sweatshop before you make partner. Upper-level management is random (luck) and a snake-pit - working your way to the top takes years, is soul-crushing and often amoral - and you still can get fired because some hot-shot wasted millions on the wrong gamble.
    Figure out what you are good at - and what you like - give that a try. Just stop the self-defeating thoughts - you don't even need other crabs to pull you down...

    [–]NaughtyFred 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    To be clear I used others to illustrate my point, no comparison was intended.

    Having said that I've enjoyed our exchange, it was thought provoking.

    [–]BradPill -1 points0 points  (0 children)

    I don't see your point: you just assume that 'everything' you read here is the truth. I don't. Always take it with a grain of salt. Or two.

    But like I said: in principal, most people these days can get into college/university. They lowered their standards, they give exemptions etc. No, not the Ivy Leagues. Btw, entrepreneurs don't necessarily have any education... they can be self-made.
    You sound young. You stick to society's rules and expectations (getting a degree, work hard for a shit boss, maybe you get a promotion etc.). We live in different times. Find your way. More importantly, dare to build your own way.

    [–]soadaa -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

    The longer someone spends with you, the more attractive they tend to think you are.

    [–]Zchavago 17 points18 points  (1 child)

    Yea, it cracks me up when I see pictures of girls with their friends on a boat, or climbing rocks, mudding on 4 wheelers or any other thing "fun". Because you damn well know if it wasn't for some guy with the money or resources, they sure wouldn't be doing any of that.

    [–]TRP VanguardArchwinger[S] 14 points15 points  (0 children)

    My wife still, to this day, talks about this one time, years ago, when my friends and I rented jet skis and hit the lake all day, then cooked steaks on the grill, then went inside for beers and video games. It was the most fun she'd had in forever, and probably outranks a lot of the fun things we've done since then.

    But I'm sure outdoor recreation, grilling steaks, drinking beer, and playing video games was something she'd have done with her friends on her own initiative without me anyway.

    [–][deleted]  (1 child)

    [deleted]

    [–]Endorsed ContributorRedPillDad 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Well put. A pimp mode mission of pussy is a downward spiral. Poon is potentially a reward for becoming a winner, but you'll still need decent Game to indicate you're deserving. Women don't want an overeager newbie... they want a guy with that thousand-pussy-IDGAF stare.

    [–][deleted]  (7 children)

    [deleted]

    [–]dj10show 9 points10 points  (6 children)

    The chick that waxes me is what I would consider fairly RPW. She believes in gender roles, 3rd wave feminism is bullshit, etc. I gained 12 lbs. of muscle last year after I found TRP, even though I was in good shape as it was.

    Her response when seeing me upon transformation. "Watch how you won't have to try to be perfect around people anymore. Pay attention to all the bullshit you'll get away with now."

    She wasn't wrong

    [–]Endorsed ContributorThotwrecker 7 points8 points  (0 children)

    No one knows that law better than attractive women.

    [–][deleted]  (1 child)

    [removed]

      [–]dj10show 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Damn, I went from 125 to 137....I can't imagine weighing more than you at 5'8". It's almost sickening how much better people treat you. Having friends that are all in the 6' Chad looks range, I always sensed a difference in the way people treated me vs them. Now I have a piece of that and it's awesome. It literally has done more for me than either of my degrees, my money, or my athletic accomplishments.

      [–]reigorius 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      So having a muscular body adds so much value that others are much more forgiving or accepting of your mistakes, quirks or behavior?

      [–]1Jaereth 3 points4 points  (0 children)

      Good post here. In your interactions with women, you need to remember you are in the drivers seat. You are making a selection on who to give your time to, not begging them to give theirs to you.

      [–]anooblol 4 points5 points  (1 child)

      There was a routine Amy Schumer does talking about this. She says "I keep on giving my boyfriend more and more shit to deal with until finally he snaps. Once he snaps I know that's my limit for how much shit I can get away with.

      [–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 9 points10 points  (3 children)

      Agree with what's happening, but also...

      Where “blue pill” people go wrong .. leaping to the wrong conclusion.

      They conclude that if ... talk to women, treat them well, have common interests, a pleasing personality, and get along as friends for awhile

      This blue pill lie does not come from men coming to the wrong conclusion about the nature of attractiveness from other men. It comes from women misleading men about the nature of attractiveness.

      Most mothers, female friends, early girlfriends will all lead a young and impressionable man or boy in the wrong direction - and that direction is always in the direction of "do things for women and not for yourself".

      The basic blue pill dating advice that is wrong, is always wrong in the same way - it's designed to favour the woman. Be friends first? Supplicate? Be there for her? Be nice to her? Wait three months for sex? Don't expect too much? the list goes on and on.

      There is a full on attack on all the most attractive aspects of men in order to be able to exploit them for marriage, support, commitment and child-rearing. If women said "be super fucking hot!" and a load of guys hit the gym... those guys would have more options (bad for her), they'd stop committing (bad for her), and all the non-Chad types would think "hang on a second, I can't look like that, I don't believe you genuinely want me so I'm not going to marry you".

      Much better for women that they say "oh, it's important to be just friends first.... wait for me until I've been pumped and dumped by Chad err... who has a nice personality... for just a few more years until I err... grow up"

      [–][deleted]  (1 child)

      [deleted]

        [–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 6 points7 points  (0 children)

        Yet so many young men are misled. Why? Because of thought control and dissent policing. It's why there are so many white knights. These men literally don't know what else to do, and are led to believe that their current mode of behaviour is in their best interests. I don't blame them. Except the white knights - fuck the white knights.

        [–]woefulwank 4 points5 points  (1 child)

        The Red Pill encourages a negative view of women. Why? Because when you see women as non-unique, non-special beings, each one defined primarily by how much of a boner her appearance creates, you can approach them confidently, without really caring how things go.

        When a man realises the real worth and value of himself, reality becomes much richer, more colourful. A man really is a more admirable creature, and in many ways more capable. He sees things for what they are and adapts to win over his environment without support, he needs not find ways to manipulate and utilise cunning to persuade others to do the dirty work for him. It's a solitary struggle and women do not know the weight of what men carry, solo. And that's why this mental realisation is profound. You can be the absolute shit once you've figured out just how immense you really are, what you can handle, and what you can become with enough focus and fortitude.

        Men are outstanding, women have to have an outstanding man in her life to even come close.

        [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Reminds me of this scene from Mad Men: https://youtu.be/fjg5TuXV09U?t=53s

        [–]balckcvae 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        Be confident is the usual advice but I think it's better phrased as "don't be a spineless yes man" - which often means being your own person that is principled and firm on the right things and flexible and open minded to constructive disagreements. It's all in the balance but we rationalise our arguments with extreme examples and this warps our sense of normality.

        As with most things, there are fringe extremes at two ends of the spectrum which are made of a minority and then a general average which makes up the majority. There are some really awful men and women that make you question your humanity and then there's the sheep herd majority that are mostly docile and just getting to grips with awareness of reality and hidden away in all of this mess are a few smiles that make you want to live and do better because they intrinsically enrich your life with something beyond the superficial. That doesn't mean these men and women become devoid of instinct and will naturally turn off to lack of drive and ambition but people do exist that have enough foresight, cognition and humanity to see through their partners weaknesses and holes and be the filling support and cover for their gaps to allow their good traits to flourish.

        The issue as I see it is that we always hear talk about the "perfect" or ideal hero/heroine that each person needs to be to succeed and all the horror examples of crappy people as warnings and confirmation of your failure to play that role but the truth is everyone has problems - good people, bad people, beautiful people and those not so all have varying degrees of issues and struggles in their lives and relationships. If anything poorer people can make better life partners because they've seen hardship and appreciate humanity over wealth - not all are like that, greed sways many, but a lack of a sense of entitlement can help keep people grounded to earth and loyal to their family.

        If you look at every relationship as a connection/transaction, those which complement each other in mutual growth will succeed over those which are imbalanced/exploitive.

        tl;dr don't marry a leecher, be a seeder.

        [–]Redpillc0re 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        What a great round-up/reminder of RP values for everyone. There is a lot of "look guys! woman did this" and "look guys! woman did that" in the frontpage and it's ugly. Complaining about women is not what RP is about.

        There are exceptions to what you say as well. A very handsome man may say the stupidest shit, or even be awkward and women will still be all over him. If an ugly guy does the same thing he is ridiculed at best. Men are also like that, but to a lesser degree ; women are very selective.

        [–]Benny757 1 point2 points  (1 child)

        A comment about girls perception of the awesome nice guy being just...sweet.

        I submit that within many of these awesome "nice" guys, there's a subtle alpha lurking that causes the tingle rather than the "sweet." I see this often. But here's the catch, the rub... These nice guys are kick ass. They have hobbies, things, lifestyles that are unusual, exciting, extreme, or they are what we just might refer to as the "natural" alphas. Behind them is drive. And that drive is as selfish as can be. But it appears subtle. Oh so subtle. These guys are the risk takers. The nice sweet risk takers that live the counter culture and move with flow and appear nice (and they actually are often times) but their disposition is entirely wired differently than "Chad."

        These guys are an odd form of alpha, because they go their own way, yet provide an outward appearance of being "nice guys."

        In fact they don't suffer nice guy syndrome. They are far from beta. When you are resting, they are testing. Say again. When you are resting they are testing. Like out on a 16 hour overnight trail run to test a headlamp. Honey is at home in bed. Kids tucked in (by Honey of course). They are out on the trail testing.

        Choose the life you live.

        [–]dj10show 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        I noticed this when I became a TA in grad school. The nerds were actually chill as fuck.

        [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        In general, I have no problem with your main thesis, it's core wisdom around here. However I'd add a caveat or two:

        1. There is sometimes a limit to how a woman can go in this. Their capability to improve is sometimes limited by bigger issues than a non-professional can fix. Choose carefully.

        2. The later you leave this, the longer she's able to behave badly, the more work is required to fix it, and to maintain a reasonable level of behavior. To the point that it's often better just to start again. Start as you mean to continue.

        [–]textualintercourse 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        When a woman wants to be with you, you can shit in the sink and she's happy to clean it.

        When she doesn't, nothing you do matters.

        [–]Senior Contributorveggie_girl 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Best post I've ever read here. It covers everything a man needs to know in a simple fashion. I'm sending this to my nephew.

        [–]SleepNowMyThrowaway 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Low value men let it happen because they have nowhere else to go.

        I believe it important to add that this is also true of low-value women...such poor self-confidence and low self-esteem they put up with abuse, and allow it to continue.

        [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (3 children)

        I don't even think negative, just, realistic one. The ones that get mentioned are creating their own image.

        I'm a big fan of (I think it was Rollo) who suggested that us holding a woman to the mens ideas of honesty, loyalty etc. was just flawed to begin with. You can't judge a woman by the standards of being a man, any more than you can judge a hockey player by his "free-throw" ability.

        They live by the consequences society gives them, as do we. Unfortunately, there are two different sets of rules. I'm sure they get pissed that they can't go against the hive-mind either, or constantly have to fight for their social position with the other crabs.

        [–]ether_reddit 2 points3 points  (2 children)

        I'm sure they get pissed that they can't go against the hive-mind either, or constantly have to fight for their social position with the other crabs.

        Some women do it anyway, because they've figured out that social position among other women is not a statistic that actually matters or improves their well-being. Simply realizing how the game is played can be a distasteful enough experience that it turns the smart women off from ever valuing it again.

        in other words: other women look down on me because I don't dress in flashy clothes like them? fuck them, and nothing of value was lost. It's meaningful relationships that matter.

        [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

        Are we talking about women, or straight up crazy sluts?

        [–]ether_reddit 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        I'm talking about women who refuse to play the game.

        [–][deleted]  (4 children)

        [deleted]

        [–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (3 children)

        My wife threatened to call the cops on me today, and "report" me if I took (technically her) car to run errands. I ignored her for the first time with a threat like this, and it made me angry how difficult it was to make the decision to just drive away and go about my business

        Then as I'm getting air in one of the tires, I see a text proclaiming that she was going to get rid of something of mine.

        Yeah, there's an art form to responding to a shit test like "I'm going to sic the cops on you/call the law". You have to gauge what's really going on there -- whether it's an empty threat or it's serious.

        My call on this is that almost all the time, these are not serious threats, particularly where she's married to the man she's threatening. I think you ignore it once.

        I think that if she does it again or it's repeated, you have to address it and you have to nuke the shit out of it.

        "Go ahead and call the cops. I'll wait right here while you do. Make sure you tell them my birthdate and social security number. I'll write down my driver's license number for you. The cops will need that for the report."

        "Call the cops. When you do, I'll swear out a complaint against you and ask that you be charged for making a false report."

        If she actually DOES call the cops, to me that's game over. The minute she actually does involve the law in your marriage, it's not a shit test. There's no marriage to save at that point. She sees the cops as her alpha protector now. Your marriage is done.

        [–][deleted]  (1 child)

        [deleted]

          [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          I think it is very different if it's just a plate or a GF threatening to involve law enforcement. If a plate or a GF does that, to me that's an immediate game over, no questions asked. Just end that, next it and move on. No point in even trying to nuke that shit test.

          [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          And if you fail, they'll be as shitty as the law will allow them to be in some cases..

          [–]Boovs4life 0 points1 point  (1 child)

          What are some Red Pill hobbies and activities endorsed? Videogames can be classified as a hobby but i know it isn't a valuable hobby or skill. I've read things like boxing and rock climbing are good. Any others? I'd love to know fellow Red Pillers' hobbies. I'm 19 and as a former omega that spent hours thinking Magic thr Gathering was a good hobby, I'd like to get into actual productive hobbies that benefit my life. Thanks!

          [–]Endorsed ContributorThotwrecker 3 points4 points  (0 children)

          The trick is to seek excellence in a smaller set of hobbies rather than dick around with a new thing every week.

          Pick one hobby in the category of:

          1. Intellectual Development

          2. Physical Development

          3. Social / Leadership

          4. Career Development

          And be great at what you pick. I'm 24 and mine right now are -

          Learning / devouring knowledge on graphic design / UX design (intellectual), boxing and weight-training (physical), I go to different meetups to network and meet new people (social), and I work on a side project related to my career that should be able to boost by income stream and resume as a software engineer in 1-2 years.

          As you can see, if I put time into those 4 hobbies + work + a little relaxing time every day, then that's a wrap, I don't have more time left. I believe the key is to simplify and do an excellent job with 4 hobbies of these different categories, and not get ADHD switching between a bunch of things. It takes time and hard work to become great at something, and the greatest mistake of youth is not realizing the value of time.

          [–][deleted]  (3 children)

          [deleted]

          [–]Redapprentice 3 points4 points  (2 children)

          it happens because of your lack of Value/confidence in yourself. To quote u/Metalaggeddon "Value is What The World sees in you and Wants".

          Women are shitty becuase you are not confident in who you are, they see you are not satisfied with yourself; if you don't feel good about yourself and are unable to come to terms with your failures and successes the women you interact with will be a reflection of that.

          In order to gain confidence you must become who you want to be, you must start living in your own terms and you must respect yourself before you even start to demand respect for others, mark Manson once said that if you act like an asshole just to get validation from others you will get the same result the nice guy who thinks doing things for others will get him his needs met.

          Find value within yourself, respect the value you have built, make others respect that value and respect the value of your fellow males.

          You will see that once you start gaining value, women will stop condescending you, because women only respect men of value; men of status, that is the nature of females, that is hypergamy and that's the answer to your question.

          [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Damn. You're already spreading the theory. Thank you, I really appreciate it. You must have a disposition for objective thinking. Also, you're friended. Any time you need philosophical help or stoic help from someone raised red just pm me. No questions asked, above quality of content of course.

          [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          God how many truths in such a little space, thank you dude!

          [–]Gesnaught 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          I needed this post. Thank you for giving me the words I never knew I needed.

          [–]Endorsed ContributorBluepillProfessor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          I am not as eloquent as Arch but this is what I said about the same topic:

          Remember this and believe it because every word is true: ANY woman can become attracted to you. She will have sex with you to seal the deal, sometimes multiple times a day for years at a time. She will be sweet and submissive and pleasant and happy all the time. She will then get you to marry her. Then she will begin withdrawing the sexual frequency, often on the Honeymoon. She will become colder and more withdrawn. She will become edgy, angry and sharp. She will then begin a seemingly calculated campaign of Shit Test after Shit Test and escalating disrespect. Ultimately she will divorce you, or drive you to commit suicide or work yourself to an early grave- and then she will piss on it.

          IF you let her.

          [–]mikazee 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Women who interact with valuable guys end up taking an interest in the valuable guy’s skills, hobbies, conversational topics – even if these things never interested the woman before

          I think the reverse of this is why video games were reviled so much until they became a powerful industry.

          Nerds with low status had a common interest in video games and no one cared. Video games got popular and suddenly "It's a boys club keeping women out!"

          [–]Lord_NShYH 0 points1 point  (1 child)

          If you want some Red Pill-style philosophy from antiquity, when men were really men, look at some of the Hermetic symbolism. For example, men are associated with the Sun and women are associated with the Moon (and not just because of menstruation). Essentially women, around men, reflect the aura you radiate. If you're weak, they are voracious in consuming men. If you're strong, they act they way women want to act. But, women are always looking to move up. This just means you can never stop improving yourself as a man.

          [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          I was about to say, "it must suck to be a woman who learns about TRP and chooses to accept its teachings as reality" but in the end, who is it really hardest for? The woman who discovers that she's not actually in charge of her destiny or the man who learns he is entirely responsible for it? They seem to be equally challenging.

          [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          So essentially, there is a barrier of entry to the market, physique, social proof, social power.

          Betas don't realize it because it isn't verbally discussed. They focus on what is done after the barrier is meet, because it's visible.

          Alphas only think of it as a necessary part of life maintenance (rewarding to pursue often times).

          Nice post op!

          [–]Dolldomination -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

          This is so unrealistic I want to cry

          [–]smartengineer93 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

          I like the liquid analogy. Oil and water don't mix. Don't conform as it is helpful to neither participants.