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Men's RightsCalifornian Kathy Murray saved her marriage by giving up trying to control her husband. Despite considering herself a feminist, she follows the approach of a controversial book called The Surrendered Wife, which tells women to stop nagging their partners and start treating them with more respect. (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by HeinousFu_kery

Link: http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-37861459

I don't post long diatribes here but I couldn't resist this one.

Holy Shit: Treat your partner/spouse with respect and he won't get sick of your nagging ass.

The six principles of being a 'Surrendered Wife':


Relinquishes inappropriate control of her husband

This is just plain repulsive. If he needs to be controlled but still married you, either you're into some serious kink or he should be in an institution. Otherwise get over the arrogant notion that you know more his life than he does.

Respects her husband's thinking

Gosh...what a change, although this may be the end of the world's economy;treating men like idiots or offenders and letting them buy their way back to favor with consumer goods. Ever notice how every marketing campaign treats responsible decision makers (usually men and older people) with derision? Yeah....that.

Receives his gifts graciously and expresses gratitude for him

Respecting someone you've married as a human being and is occasionally appreciative of them. Wow, what a concept.

Expresses what she wants without trying to control him

"What's wrong"

"Nothing..."

"C'mon...tell me..."

"If you cared...you'd know!"

Most of all,. mobody needs this kind of passive aggressive bullshit and it will make people lose interest very quickly.

Relies on him to handle household finances

See the first item. Actually letting responsible decision makers who aren't driven by the hive mind, fashion magazines or clickbait "must have" lists may collapse the world's economy but for now it's an overdue idea.

Focuses on her own self-care and fulfillment

Yep, princess, you'll have to do some of that. Everyone should.


Astoundingly, this is a feminist idea according to the author (and her thinking is hard to argue with):

"Women often ask me if my approach is about dumbing myself down or becoming a submissive wife. I tell them I am a feminist. Surrendering is acknowledging you can't change or control anyone but yourself. That's empowering!"

The Bottom Line: Don't settle

I didn't, but I've been through the mill and I've seen guys even as ancient as me who are still putting up with nagging jerks as wives or partners. If she's an asshole, don't waste your time. Life is short.

Addendum: My wife actually sent me this post. She's always appalled at the level of arrogance and entitlement among women, who consider men to be idiot cash machines or household servants and who badmouth them while spending their cash.


[–]TRP VanguardArchwinger 70 points71 points  (20 children)

The Surrendered Wife is essentially a woman's attempt to force a Red Pill relationship. To fake it until she makes it. It's like the woman's version of Married Red Pill

Take a woman married to a shity-ass, loser-man that she doesn't want to fuck, doesn't respect, and nags, mothers, and controls to death. She's not happy. The Surrendered Wife tells her to act like a submissive woman who's married to a badass Red Pill manly man, even though she's really not. To pretend. To fake the behaviors she would normally undertake if she were actually passionately interested in her man. To act like an attractive woman worthy of an awesome manly man alpha man would act.

The idea is that if she starts working out and dressing better, acting submissive, and stepping back from all leadership positions in the house so that her husband has no choice but to take them over or the household fails, that he'll step up and start doing the leadership jobs he'd previous left to her and think it's worth it since she's acting all submissive and looking hot now.

Women think that if they fake being a good wife, it will cause their men to up their game and become winners instead of losers.

It doesn't work. If you're married to a loser and you start fucking him more and treating him better, you're just incentivizing him to keep being a loser. Men are driven to work harder and get better when life sucks. Not when life's great.

Where The Surrendered Wife does work is when a woman is a stupid-ass bitch who's actually married to a good man who's doing a good job, but she's too stupid and controlling and bitchy to notice or care. And when she reads the book, then shuts the fuck up and starts acting right, and life doesn't fail because her husband's not actually the loser she thought he was, she thinks it's all because she started doing that shit she read about and pats herself on the back for fixing her husband.

[–]kankouillotte 19 points20 points  (2 children)

Men are driven to work harder and get better when life sucks

It took me years to finally accept this. But as a scientist, you can't help but notice facts don't add up with your fantasy, at one point you're forced to consider you were wrong.

Each time I get kicked in the ass, I progress. The harder, the better.

[–]Hakametal 4 points5 points  (0 children)

That's exactly what embodies masculine energy.

[–]KriegerAleks 5 points6 points  (2 children)

There is an easy summary , I've told every female friend that has ever dated a loser or not or that whines about their relationship. Men. Dont. Change. He will never be changing for you he cheated and hes gonna cheat. Same applies to women really , which is why history is a big deal

[–]TRP VanguardArchwinger 9 points10 points  (1 child)

I think my last paragraph is the most poignant one. Most men are pretty decent guys.

While most men aren't in the top 20% awesome manly man badass category, most men also aren't in the bottom 20% shitty-ass loser worthless category.

Most men work hard, do okay, parent okay, keep a house okay, treat their wives okay, and are decent men. But they get pissed on by shitty bitchy entitled dumbass women.

If one of those dumbass women reads The Surrendered Wife and tries it out, she'll finally shut the hell up long enough to notice a lot of the good shit her husband's been doing, while noticing how trivial his failings really are. He's been doing that good shit forever, but she just noticed it for the first time five seconds ago and thinks it's all because she read this book and backed off, so he stepped up. She genuinely thinks she fixed her husband and her marriage thanks to The Surrendered Wife. But really, she just shut the hell up and noticed what was already there.

[–]KriegerAleks 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Thats my point. They wont ever change. Be it if they are scum or good decent guys, they will still be what they are. The thing is now she shutting up long enough to actually see it. Its like they typical woman that asks a guy to do something. He puts it on the list. She nags . he Ignores her, eventually reaching that space on the list and does it. She thinks nagging has finally succeeded and carries on.

[–]thewrightstuff88 3 points4 points  (0 children)

It doesn't work. If you're married to a loser and you start fucking him more and treating him better, you're just incentivizing him to keep being a loser. Men are driven to work harder and get better when life sucks. Not when life's great.

It also doesn't work because men are the container and women are the liquid that fit themselves to the shape of the container. This is why a majority of women will do things like, root for your team if they never watched sports before or take on your preferences for things/hobbies.

What happens here is things like nagging are essentially shit tests. Men who are weak in mind and heart will fail them, so she keeps nagging, maybe in hopes that one day he will change.

The book advocates women essentially going against their nature by nagging less and respecting more, without the proper feedback (passing of a shit test by the male).

What is interesting here is what the long term effects of this would be. Would she compensate her "nagging" to another man, who may actually pass the shit tests, which would be refreshing to her, and possibly increasing attraction to that other man? Would things "bottle up" so to speak, since she isn't getting the feedback to tell her that her man is a worthy mate? Questions to think about.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (6 children)

With all due respect, where would a woman turn to guidance then? I found TRP during an LTR that I have no intention of leaving because I'm happy, but would like to see some improvements. I thought Surrendered Wife offered some great lessons that I learned from right away, but you're right about how it de-incentivises alpha behavior if you're in a bluepill relationship.

I want to be a surrendered wife and I want my man to be a little more alpha, but I'm not supposed to talk about Fight Club and now I'm hearing that book means nothing either :(

From a newbie to a Vanguard I'd love to know, what more can I do?

[–]TRP VanguardArchwinger 3 points4 points  (5 children)

If a man sucks, or even if a man is decent but has some important shortcomings, it's on him to fix those. It's not his wife's job, nor her place, to try to improve him. Her job is to accept him and support him, or leave.

Women who rely on The Surrendered Wife method and finally wise up and give up nagging still haven't really surrendered. They arrogantly think they can be some kind of sneaky puppet-master by manipulating their men into improving by "surrendering", which is really just going on strike and letting shit go wrong until the man fixes it, while pretending to be submissive.

If your man sucks in some manner, tell him about it, once. Maybe twice. Then move on. He'll address the issue when his time and energy allows, or he won't. If you can't live with the way he resolves that issue, and each other issue that bothers you, find a man you can live with. If you can live with the way he lives his life and you can trust in his leadership, adjust your expectations and do it.

Men only change when shit sucks and they're unhappy. Not when women nag, or when women surrender. And some men don't even do that. They just learn to live with the shit that sucks.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (4 children)

Thank you very much, your response it quite useful. I'm going to try giving RPW a small break since I've grasped the general ideas, I don't want it to make me manipulative.

Although I've gotta ask, why is it okay for the man to be manipulative by initiating dread and gaming a girl, but it's not okay for a woman to manipulate the relationship into a more RP one? I'm genuinely asking not being snarky.

Is it because it is not my place to control the relationship?

[–]TRP VanguardArchwinger 2 points3 points  (3 children)

That and the fact that it just doesn't work. Women change their behavior responsive to a man's display of attraction. They actually get turned on a little by a man acting in a way that puts the fear of loss into them. And when they're sexually attracted to a man, everything he does is suddenly seen in a better light and they find themselves doing more for him and enjoying making him happy.

Men don't actually change when a woman nags. They just do something to shut her up, then go on about their regular loser lives. And are puzzled why their wives don't want to have sex when they always do exactly what she asks them to do. Or why she's such a nagging bitch about it all the time.

Men don't actually change when a woman artificially becomes submissive. If a guy is sitting on the couch, 30 pounds overweight, drinking beer and watching football, and you come over and give him a blowjob, he's going to start spending more time on the couch watching football. If a woman suddenly stops writing the check each month for the electric bill and the lights get turned off, the man may start writing the check out of necessity, but not because he genuinely changed or became less of a loser.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Aaah thank you so much it makes a lot more sense now. "Female dread" (for lack of a better word) can't work on a blue pilled man because it eliminates incentive to change. Got it!

Sounds like the key here is becoming more attracted to him, however that might be. I've told him a million times to be a little rougher/ meaner to me but he's just so stinkin sweet!

He's been super interested in all the RP theory I've taught him so far (he doesn't know its TRP tho) - I wonder if maybe its time to get him The Rational Male. My long term tingles may depend on it... What are your thoughts?

Sorry for asking so many questions btw, I really appreciate the advice of a Vanguard. I'm genuinely trying to be the change I wish to see in this crazy world but a woman needs an alphas frame to guide them so all your answers, no matter how blunt, are super appreciated.

[–]TRP VanguardArchwinger 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Dread's definitely not the right word. Being a good, supportive wife who backs off, doesn't nag, and fucks her husband whenever he wants is the opposite of dread. He doesn't feel like he's losing you then. He feels like he has you.

I think women can give you better advice than I can for specific ways to really execute this. The general idea is that you're not trying to get your man to do anything. Just be the support he needs to be the best he can be, while his own non-loser-ness causes him to step up and do so, thanks in part to your support.

You have the power to make him feel like a man. The best man in the world. So many women make their men feel like children. Or like worthless nothings. You can be a source or support and comfort for him, and turn your home into a place of refuge from the world. It's you and him against the world, not him against you and the world. You're on his team, not just one more obstacle he has to overcome and manage before bed.

Part of surrendering is giving up control and being a good teammate to the team captain. Filling your role on the team and making the team better without trying to control it from the backfield, change its direction, undermine the captain, or second guess his judgment. He should know that every time he's going to make a move, you're there doing your part. He should be able to rely on you in that way. He should feel like with you by his side, he can do anything. And that as long as you're there by his side, you're worth doing anything for.

[–]1KyfhoMyoba 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It doesn't work. If you're married to a loser and you start fucking him more and treating him better, you're just incentivizing him to keep being a loser. Men are driven to work harder and get better when life sucks. Not when life's great.

Got to differ. See other comment. My sister is into that book big time, as well as the Biblical commands for women to submit, etc., etc., etc. I have personally witnessed my BiL become more and more dominant and take on more leadership roles over past 30 years. Dudes got more spine than I ever would even imagined when I was back in college bumming a meal off of them. Sis is happy and has internalized all that shit so that it's reflexive.

Oh, and nobody in my family is ever even thought of as stupid.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

deleted What is this?

[–]_fappycamper 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Or men learn how to lead and eventually start doing it naturally.

[–]TRP VanguardArchwinger 0 points1 point  (1 child)

You genuinely believe that a 38-year-old loser who clings to his wife's skirts and hasn't led his family, ever, can really and truly be passively manipulated by his wife into becoming a respectable and confident leader simply by the wife going on strike so that he has to do all of the leadership jobs she was doing, but being nice to him during her strike instead of bitchy to inspire him?

If you're a grown-ass man, married, with kids, and you're not the leader of your family, it's not your wife reading a book and shutting her mouth that's going to make you change. Women have this delusion that they're some kind of crafty puppet-masters who can change their men by using sex and good behavior effectively. Men don't change unless their life sucks enough to drive them to do so.

[–]_fappycamper 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Isn't that what redpillwomen sub is all about?

I agree though, no amount of surrendering will help in your extremely specific example.

[–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It doesn't work. If you're married to a loser

They aren't all losers. A bunch of them are just afraid to lose. They hang on, desperate to keep what they built and keep the men with guns away from giving it all to their ex-blushing bride that is getting freshly nailed by three neighbors.

The truth is you will never win with women unless they know you are willing to throw it all away.

[–][deleted] 156 points157 points  (26 children)

stop nagging their partners and start treating them with more respect.

Why is this such a shocking concept?

[–]CrispyPix 95 points96 points  (5 children)

Because your cookie cutter basic bitch is shown via their Mothers, Aunts, and family friends that women nag and complain to get what they want. Rarely do you find a woman who will know and actually use how to communicate actual needs effectively instead of oh those diamonds that cost a year of mortgage payments would look nice sitting in my nightstand 95% of the time. I better act like an entitled cunt effectively whoring my way into owning something and pretend my ATM machine husband can read my mind. I swear they are worthless.

[–]sunderfrost 27 points28 points  (4 children)

Dating a woman who doesn't nag and actually communicates was a "what the fuck" moment for me.

As in it seriously threw me off.

[–][deleted]  (3 children)

[deleted]

    [–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

    Having it be normal is great, and it's very fun to parade her hot ass around while other bitches see her happy and they aren't

    [–]sunderfrost 6 points7 points  (0 children)

    Yeah - there's no mind games here. If something bothers her, she'll address it either then and there, or within a weeks time. She's also the type who for example, if you're creating dinner plans and she's a guest, don't ask her for her opinion on things - just be like " this is what we are having." and that's it ( to summarize ).

    It's taking some serious readjusting from how I've been conditioned.

    [–]Cheveyo 60 points61 points  (9 children)

    Society teaches women that they deserve everything they want. Not that they should work for it, but that it should be given to them because they deserve it.

    They're never taught to treat anyone with respect, but instead are taught they are the ones who should be given that respect.(because they deserve it)

    They're also taught that nothing bad that happens is their fault. If they failed a test in school it's because the teacher didn't do a good enough job. If they got dumped, it's because the guy was an asshole. If they failed to get a job, it's because the company is sexist. It is NEVER their fault.

    So essentially, women are allowed to remain children their whole lives.

    [–]BluestBlackBalls 32 points33 points  (0 children)

    Basic coping mechanism; accept all successes as as a result of personal qualities and reject failures as a result of external forces.

    [–][deleted] 18 points19 points  (6 children)

    If they failed a test at school, it's the teachers fault

    Holy fucking shit, I'm in school right now and you know how much of the class says this shit about teachers that give the most responsibility? Fucking everyone blames the teacher for not teaching, it's always the blame game with these cunts.

    I swear this teacher gives out all the content and notes online for us to access and goes through problems every single fucking day and yet these people still find a way to hamster that it's his fault that they're getting shit grades.

    Fucking entitled cunts make me angry

    [–]TheUnknownMe 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    Yeah, a lot of people do this shit of: OH MA GHERD THE TEACHER GAVE ME AN F WHAT A BITCH. And I'm always like, mate you got that yourself, dummie. There's this conspiracy theory around grades, where people assume teachers wanna fuck their grades and don't want them to pass exams and it's never their fault. It's like patriarchy, I can't achieve good grades because the teacher won't let me.

    Ironically though I have this teacher now who I hate with my whole soul because she's the worst teacher you could come up with. Whenever I'm stuck with something and ask a question she'll be constantly interrupting me while I'm asking, responding to something that has nothing to do with my question, and when I repeat the question, she'll just give THE SAME ANSWER all the fucking time even if it made no sense the first time. Still I managed to get a good grade doing all the work on my own.

    [–]ron_swans0n 5 points6 points  (2 children)

    Shitty teachers do exist, however they are not the majority and i agree with alot said here. However, i once had a teacher from russia who could barely speak our native language, and when she did it was with the most heaviest russian accent i have ever heard. Everything she said was litteraly incomprehensible.

    I wanted to learn math, not russian.

    She was even fired from an older school, because she couldn't teach properly with her pseudo russian/danish constructed language.

    [–]Mckallidon 5 points6 points  (1 child)

    I dropped a Spanish course because it was taught by a Polish woman who barely knew English. English was her fourth language and it was British English. This is in NY btw. I'm a hard worker but it wasn't worth the hassle to deal with that for an elective and a class that isn't supposed to be that hard. Not when you're taking Chem and Physics and Calculus.

    [–]ron_swans0n 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Couldn't change my class, so i had to suffer shitty math grades, taking a free course in math next month though. Glad to hear you could change yours, wish i could have done the same.

    [–]GrabHerByThePEPE 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    I used to kind of do this. There was a standard way each class was graded and tested. Then this cunt teacher decides to be unique and make it harder/different/etc. than the rest of the department. Got a c instead of an a. I had the wrong mindset in school though, so guess it was my fault.

    [–]Mckallidon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Yep. My classmates always asked me how I got such killer grades. If always say well I read the textbook, studied the notes from class and did the practice problems. It's like wtf did you think I did lol.

    [–]sizzlingseveral 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    They're also taught that nothing bad that happens is their fault. If they failed a test in school it's because the teacher didn't do a good enough job.

    Holy shit, whenever midterms roll around, girls will go on about how sexist their professors are. Like gimme a fucking break, take at least a little bit of responsibility.

    [–]massivewang 40 points41 points  (7 children)

    It's crazy isn't it? I am really good friends with an older married couple, husband is a G. He's a bit overweight but other than that he's making bank (70k bonuses 2x a year), hunts, fishes, can fix anything in the house, etc.

    I've been over there with his wife cussing him out and calling him a loser. My buddy and I had to sit down with her and tell her "You can't talk to him like that around us. He's our friend and we love and respect him. Furthermore we can't understand why you have the audacity to say those things to a man who brings home 70k bonuses and enabled you to live life as a stay at home mom".

    She actually shaped up and is treating him better to our surprise.

    [–]analyticaltoafault 16 points17 points  (2 children)

    You're just fucking awesome. Good shit, brother.

    [–]massivewang 5 points6 points  (1 child)

    I think it's a testament to authentic and meaningful relationships. My friend and I are fortunate in that our relationship with them and each other is deep and real. We've known them for 8 years now, and have seen their kids grown up/have been a part of those moments. My friend has a special bond with both of their children, sort of like the super awesome/cool fun uncle (who also gives good life advice for those sticky situations that mom/dad don't understand or will kill you for).

    Also I think it's coupled with the fact that we're grown ass men and don't want to be around unwarranted negativity. I didn't know if she was gonna change, but if she wanted to hang out she couldn't talk to him like that in front of us.

    It's great that she was willing to hear constructive criticism and adjust. While she is crazy and has her issues, she's also has several wonderful qualities about her. I'm really happy that she's shown she's capable of growing/improving/hearing constructive criticism.

    [–]analyticaltoafault 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    I gotta remind myself that women will succumb to social pressure like what you guys impressed upon her.

    Good shit man. I always tell my buds how lucky I am for having guys like them as friends and know we do this shit for one another and I don't see it often enough with other guys' groups of male friends.

    [–]webleytempest 4 points5 points  (1 child)

    Rate up. Nicely done. However, I think we could all agree it should be her friends, sisters, mother, aunts, whatever, that should have had that conversation with her.

    Of course, that's fantasy world, and currently doesn't exist.

    [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    However, I think we could all agree it should be her friends, sisters, mother, aunts, whatever, that should have had that conversation with her.

    Unfortunately in this world, those people actually encourage her to nag because it's "empowering"

    [–]Senior Contributordr_warlock 3 points4 points  (1 child)

    She didn't change her mind, you shamed her and she's putting on an act to stay in the tribe. Women only respond to power, leverage, and shaming.

    [–]massivewang 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Whatever it is; her behavior changed. I didn't expect it to.

    [–]Troll_Name 16 points17 points  (0 children)

    Three words: males ruined it.

    Not "men" in the sense of successful males who attract mates and leave legacies. Rather, the other ones - all of them.

    When you try to set up an egalitarian system, the result is a rationing system where everyone is given half of an existence which adds up to nothing unless whole.

    What happens? People compete. People were already competing before this solution was imposed, which means the solution didn't work. It was supposed to be a solution for competing.

    So the successful spread their genes and the unsuccessful are dead ends. This is the same as before, but successful and unsuccessful have been redefined.

    More and more, people are not getting success through self-improvement but rather through the destruction of others around them. This practice has become so common that it is destroying civilization as we know it.

    [–]FortunateBum 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Because treating men as equals is a completely foreign concept to women. To women, men are there to serve. Your husband is your primary slave. Men do this to get paid back in sex.

    [–]PaulAJK 71 points72 points  (8 children)

    She says she lost weight, but in the second photo she looks like she's got bigger arms than i have. Obviously she surrendered to the cake as well.

    [–]brinkleybuzz 32 points33 points  (2 children)

    After viewing her picture, I threw up a little in my mouth when I read this.

    I've now found subtle ways of getting my husband in the mood for sex, which is far more effective than the days of begging, crying or yelling about wanting it.

    Conventional wisdom on this sub is women can get laid if they just show up. I think we found an exception.

    [–]CrashXXL 18 points19 points  (0 children)

    Nothing turns me on more than crying.

    [–]Senior Contributordr_warlock 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Nah, if she went to a poor regions bar, there would be a suitor of equal or higher smv.

    [–]sickofallofyou 21 points22 points  (0 children)

    The cake is strong with this one.

    [–]lolligagger3000 17 points18 points  (0 children)

    She is old and old women (unless they lift and have muscle) have always saggy arms, no matter their weight.

    But still, yes she's fat

    [–][deleted]  (1 child)

    [deleted]

      [–]gazzaa2 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Gynocentric society has caused too many Betas. Cause and effect. Boys get the masculinity sucked out of them.

      [–]___Jamie___ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      that one time u rly want the cake to be a lie...

      [–]1SeemedGood 18 points19 points  (2 children)

      She's always appalled at the level of arrogance and entitlement among women, who consider men to be idiot cash machines or household servants and who badmouth them while spending their cash.

      While that arrogance and entitlement is certainly infantile and unattractive, any man that lets a woman get away with that deserves what he's getting.

      If we stop putting up with it, they'll have to stop doing it.

      [–]JackGetsIt 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      Then we as men need to collectively stop putting up with it as well and change divorce laws.

      [–]1SeemedGood 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      True, and the first steps to that collective action are:

      1. becoming a valuable man and
      2. as an individual valuable man, refusing to put up with the arrogance and entitlement and
      3. refusing to commit to marriage (at all or without a pre-nup)

      [–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 52 points53 points  (6 children)

      Wow, turns out being a nagging bitch isn't good for a marriage.

      And it took a woman to tell her this before she could accept it.

      Do Not Marry

      (Because they only surrender when it suits them.... I bet she was post wall and utterly Chad-repellent when she made the switch).

      [–]analyticaltoafault 9 points10 points  (4 children)

      Agreed.

      It will always take a big personal smack to the face from reality for most people, and definitely women when it comes to humility here, to learn these lessons in life.

      It will almost exclusively be learned too damn late.

      Tangent: what can we do to see common law marriage bs change with both men and women being allowed to take care of themselves financially these days? I for one know I do not plan on marrying, and want to be with someone I either 100% know I could support financially worst case scenario if she is to grow my children within herself, or with a woman that supports herself and will never fall for the trap of an unemployed lover.

      [–]BluestBlackBalls 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      Tangent: is it not possible to draft a living agreement, specifying a separation of persons and personal property.

      [–]analyticaltoafault 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      That's true. Even then I know some states have been less than cooperative if it's not to the T. Never proposed this to a woman, amused at the possible responses it could garner lol.

      [–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      , and definitely women when it comes to humility here, to learn these lessons in life.

      Thing is... women test alphas and attack betas. If you're being attacked, it's because you're being beta. Including/especially marriage (beta contract).

      Tangent: what can we do to see common law marriage bs change with both men and women being allowed to take care of themselves financially these days?

      Just ditch common law marriage.

      If you support a woman, you're beta. However you can probably arrange a non-marriage live-in contract and avoid common law marriage. Depends what state you are in I think. Move to a state that supports your wishes.

      Be careful though - laws have a habit of changing and getting worse for men.

      [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Just ditch common law marriage.

      It comes with the time-in. At least north of the 49th, all you need is cohabitation for a time to get the status. The alternative is a blow out and separation twice a year

      [–]FortunateBum 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      It turns out that treating your husband like total garbage isn't good for the marriage. Who'd've thunk?

      [–]MATES0L 14 points15 points  (0 children)

      "It was incredibly humbling to recognise that I had something to do with why my marriage was failing and perhaps even why my first marriage failed. But it was also empowering."

      "I had no idea that I was responsible for my own happiness. I thought my husband should make me happy."

      [–]brinkleybuzz 12 points13 points  (2 children)

      This is an interesting read, because once you sift through the woman's hamstering you can see this is for what is really is: a classic example of a 21st century man who's been beaten down by life. The combination of being married to a cranky hambeast, tolerating a house full of unruly kids and suffering through the tedium of a dead end, low paying job sent this poor fella into full retreat:

      My husband often resorted to watching TV and snuggling with our pets as I'd rage at him over ignoring my needs.

      Too bad, because he's not a bad looking guy. With a RP makeover, he could be scoring younger, much better looking HBs and living an interesting life, productive life. And I don't care how much his wife pretends to surrender to him, he'll likely still be living an existence of quiet desperation as the faux patriarch of a modern day family.

      This nameless husband is the poster child of what we're working so hard to avoid becoming.

      [–]YongeArcade 4 points5 points  (0 children)

      This nameless husband is the poster child of what we're working so hard to avoid becoming.

      I name him Bob.

      Because he was just bobbing on the surface of the ocean no longer even treading water. Just waiting for the waves to take him down in to their icy embrace and sleep with the fishes. He did nothing to escape his fate and did nothing to help his rescue.

      He is flotsam bobbing on the water. Others choose his fate. He might as well be a ward of the state .

      [–]1nonthaki 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      One the husband shows his sexual prowess to other women , or he shows his SMV to other women ; the wife will start respecting him again . Its all fucked up in women's brains .

      [–]ursuchafag 9 points10 points  (0 children)

      Shit. If my wife's started that, she'd have to do it for six months before I believed she wasn't just fucking with me.

      [–]logicalthinker1 5 points6 points  (0 children)

      after reading the story, the dude sounds like a complete bitch. Good on the wife for realizing she was enabling his submissive, pussy behavior. But he's not going to change over night.

      [–]kellykebab 3 points4 points  (2 children)

      Great. How do I get my female bosses to read this?

      [–]1000100001 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      You are going to get yourself fired. lol

      [–][deleted]  (2 children)

      [deleted]

      [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      I will NEVER get a joint bank account. I have seen too many horror stories and even if my women is trustworthy, why take the risk? Especially with the options like Venmo and paypal, no need to have joint bank accounts. The ones just used for bills I MAYBE understand, but I wouldn't even get that one.

      The worst are the ones where the man agrees to having both his and his partner's paychecks get direct deposited into the joint bank account, then withdraw their portion. That's stupid. Always keep finances separate.

      I don't want someone ruining my good credit score and savings that I have.

      [–]FortunateBum 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      We know that most purchasing decisions are made by women

      This is because, IMO, women want to buy all sorts of useless, pointless, expensive shit.

      [–]Endorsed Contributorredpillbanana 4 points5 points  (0 children)

      The first time I married I was divorced by 26. I married for the second time at 32 but soon found myself sleeping in the guest room. My husband and I fought all the time.

      She re-married after she hit the wall.

      My guess is that her looks started to fade fast. That, in combination with her lack of fitness and harpy personality, turned her husband completely off.

      She probably "tried" to get into shape to attempt a branch swing but failed. Realizing her predicament, she decided to improve her personality in order to salvage her relationship with the one man who would stick with her.

      Good for her for having enough self-awareness to try to improve herself.

      [–]michael_wilkins 4 points5 points  (0 children)

      "Women often ask me if my approach is about dumbing myself down or becoming a submissive wife. I tell them I am a feminist. Surrendering is acknowledging you can't change or control anyone but yourself. That's empowering!"

      Amazing that improving your marriage is seemingly secondary to "becoming submissive

      [–]ntvirtue 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      Sounds nice....sounds like a different method to get the same control.

      [–]aanarchist 14 points15 points  (23 children)

      if she's an asshole, give her anal and then bolt. bro teach me how to find a woman who is ltr material without feeling like she's using me rpw style.

      [–]1nonthaki 3 points4 points  (18 children)

      Haha . Good luck finding such an Actual & not acting traditional woman.

      [–]aanarchist 13 points14 points  (17 children)

      that's what i thought about rpw is they're just acting, and frankly all the women i've met who came off as traditional were all acting too. i'm the kind of person who exposes lies pretty easily and the relationship detonates but it's like fuck man, i'll ltr the first sane girl i meet except there are none.

      [–]1nonthaki 18 points19 points  (3 children)

      During pre-RP days , I knew of women's behavior and their dual & solipsistic nature but was still forthcoming to women who i thought were normal . After becoming more aware of RP , I began to distrust each and every girl & quickly saw through their lies . It was getting very depressing . But then after some days i realized that its all their biological programming. Their fake behavior when they want to get attention or when they want to lock down a guy - everything is all fake to the exterior - from the morning when they wake up to check the number of likes in their Instagram pics and in Facebook to their fake status that they are enjoying reading some shit Physics book & also their makeup & their bitchy behavior .

      And its average guys who are gonna get the worst treatment . Thats because When you are a medium smv looking guy but neither Alpha nor beta , just in the middle of the scale , you tend to think that the girl smiling at you wants you and that you have a chance since you are average looking . WELL WRONG . Women nowadays have really fucking unrealistic standards. If she is younger than 26 , I can promise you she is only thinking about getting six-pack basketball star Chad's attention as that is the competition among all girls or women of her age . She will actually contemplate taking any effort towards any guy or she will only think about any guy like a worthy guy or as a partner if only he is Chad . During high school and college and her initial adult age , she is only thinking about fucking the hottest high smv guy around her social circle and to one up her friends . The rest of the fucks with low smv guys are just pity fucks or fucks to keep the friendship or to get providers . Even if the fuck with the low smv guy was of mutual consent , she wont feel as though it was that big a deal after it , cause sex to her is all tied to her self worth of fucking the greatest guy possible and always compared to the ecstasy she got when she fucked her first guy who was a jock . And in this age of Tinder and other apps , its darned easy for her to fuck jacked high smv guys left and right . None of us average guys can ever compare unless we compensate for it in many ways .

      There are other idiots in here who believe most girls nowadays have some sort of moral mental block that prevents them from not slutting around or fucking around with other guys or that they will want a low n-count or preserve their virginity . To these hapless fools , if there is one thing I know is that Women are the most natural doers of Objectivism there can ever be seen in nature . Very few women have the moral impetus to control their desires to cuck, gold-dig etc and most of these women who can do so have been brought up in Very very good households and are now rare to find . Others only dont do so because they are limited by their societies e.g. patriarchial societies in the rest of the world .

      I am sure even the most perfect RP woman and even our own traditional moms can never stop their urge for shit-testing , even if they dont show it much outside . The urge , the fire of shit-testing, craziness, selfishness, money-driven behavior is always there deep inside .You just got to hide your pain away and ignore women , live like a hermit , go MGTOW Or deal it like a Man which in this case unfortunately means after you marry a girl , even if she is near RPW, you will have to endure constant shit testing and you have to dread her enough intermittently till the end of your life which you wont enjoy.

      It seems it is impossible to live a life in which we dont have to act (use of RP knowledge , dreading, prevention of divorce rape) with a woman nowadays since they themselves are good actors. So , in life if We want to live a comparatively unrisky life , we have to become better actors than them. You might not enjoy it but There is no way we can stop acting so because if we do so , women quickly lose interest in the marriage and cuck or divorce rape which is what happens with beta guys and those RP guys who slowly soften down and become Beta . Its a game we have to play for the rest of our lives , but we will play it well but never take the misery it causes to our belief in humanity to heart .

      Kudos to our fathers and the brave RP married men & my pitiful nod to the cucked Beta men, who continue their struggle daily .

      Funny thing about RPW is that women now have to be taught on how to be feminine , when it was all supposed to be natural and instinctual for them. Ohh what 50 years of liberal freedom and feminism can do . ...

      [–][deleted]  (2 children)

      [deleted]

        [–]cosine88 6 points7 points  (0 children)

        My thoughts exactly. The strong sex drive, and desire for intimacy, is only ever fulfilled in a flighting way.

        [–]analyticaltoafault 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        Marcus Aurelius has some wise words for you as do bits of Buddhism. Enjoy the reality of life as a human every day, for it is what we get and what we are made for. There is no heaven, only life on earth.

        [–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (11 children)

        your problem is that you actually believe in LTR, since nothing in the universe is LT how are you RP and still believing in fairy-tales?

        [–]aanarchist 8 points9 points  (3 children)

        so you're saying i should go on a rampage and leave as many widows as possible?

        [–][deleted]  (2 children)

        [deleted]

          [–]aanarchist 1 point2 points  (1 child)

          i don't think me in war mode is healthy for anyone.

          [–]analyticaltoafault 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Control yourself in balance then.

          [–]trpnihtgenga 9 points10 points  (6 children)

          Name calling and labeling are what women do, this sub is for men trying to improve. We are here to discuss and critique progress - not for condemning other men's choices.

          [–][deleted] -5 points-4 points  (5 children)

          stop being sensitive like a little girl, playing the victim card is not progress. grow up and realize there is no such thing as LT, everything is temporary, ever changing but you suffer from cognitive dissonance and probably don't even understand wtf i'm talking about.

          [–]trpnihtgenga 12 points13 points  (4 children)

          You sound distraught that I am disagreeing with you. That is unfortunate. I understand perfectly what your are saying, I simply disagree. Advocating for clear communication and maturity is not "playing the victim card". And while "everything is temporary", some men enjoy having a monogamous partner rather than sporadic, temporary partners. You are obviously free to disagree and have your own interpretation to RP teachings. It is part of the beauty of this sub that you can pick and choose what works for you.

          [–]SJ0 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          I've no clue what those acronyms mean (i casually visit this reddit once every blue moon) but try dating a foreign gal who isn't spoiled by western media and bs.

          I met my SO somewhere in Asia. Right off the bat sheclaimed to be "modern women" and i was like "hummm okay". I won't go into details but she turned out to be one of the most kind hearted naive person i ever met.

          [–]friendlysociopathic 1 point2 points  (2 children)

          Everyone is using everyone. All the time. Nobody will ever have any interest in you unless you can provide some sort of value to them. Stop deluding yourself into thinking you're any different and the weight will fall off your shoulders.

          [–]aanarchist 0 points1 point  (1 child)

          What does me being different have to do with anything?

          [–]friendlysociopathic 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          If you still care about people using you then you're deluding yourself into thinking you're not doing the same to everyone else. I hope this is clearer.

          [–]Conceited-Monkey 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          It is pretty terrifying that basic concepts like treating your spouse like a normal human being are seen as anti-feminist.

          [–]Mckallidon 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          It's funny how they think not being a cunt is surrendering. Tells you everything you need to know.

          [–]1000100001 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          If he pays all the bills, I would not complain.

          But them bills need payen, thats all I'm sayen

          [–]AsianZ1 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          Men who command respect get respect. If a woman is controlling your life and treating you with disrespect, it's because you can't control your own life and you don't deserve respect. So work on that, get control over your life, your finances, and start getting the respect you deserve, and the problems will naturally solve themselves.

          [–]1PantsonFire1234 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          Well there it is, women fuck themselves over by trying to constantly control their boyfriends. If he surrenders they lose attraction if he doesn't they get angry and dump him. Who would have thought women were the main cause of all relationship issues?

          [–]1KyfhoMyoba 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          My younger (but older than me) sister is really into that book. She has a happy marriage, although her 2 boys are 'Spergy and BP as fuck.

          My older sister is super smart, and a bit of a ball buster. (Both sisters read romance novels at a rate of one or two a day. Older sis had a coat closet packed floor to ceiling with nothing by romance novels.) Put her (ex) husband through Med school, popped out 4 boys for him before they couldn't take each other any more. His problem was that with a woman as smart and assertive as my sis, it was really hard for him to "come correct" as they say in the military.

          [–]newName543456 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          Men like being treated with modicum of respect. Who would've known? Clearly not most feminists...

          [–]Endorsed Contributorex_addict_bro 3 points4 points  (12 children)

          Hey man cool post bro but this is not red pill women so:

          Be the man that women want to respect unconsciously. Aka lift and sidebar.

          [–]HeinousFu_kery[S] 8 points9 points  (4 children)

          " If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle."

          Sun Tzu

          [–]Endorsed Contributorex_addict_bro 17 points18 points  (2 children)

          Women are not your enemy and I have seen Sun Tzu quoted in a pretty similar discussion and sorry, mate, but it sounds extremely retarded in this context.

          Women are NOT your enemy.

          Your laziness is.

          Your belly fat, relasing estrogen, making you insulin-resistant, making you want to eat more is.

          Your quest for security is.

          Your dream about finding your momma replacement is.

          Your craving for more dopamine is your enemy.

          But women? Dude. When you're man enough, thinking that a woman is your enemy is RIDICULOUS. We're meant to be their protectors, not to fight with them. But, paging u/NeoReactionSafe, that's the reversal of natural order, that's 666 thinking.

          You need 777 dude. You need to, as Neo says, you need to KILL THE BETA.

          Women are NOT your enemy.

          [–]NeoreactionSafe 6 points7 points  (0 children)

           

          • 555 : If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.

           

          • 666 : If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat.

           

          • 777 : If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles.

           

          Sun Tzu actually got it right.

          Wars are fought when better options aren't available.

           

          [–][deleted]  (3 children)

          [deleted]

          [–]CrashXXL 4 points5 points  (1 child)

          You banged them then gave them the book? That's hilariously awesome.

          [–]1000100001 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          lol. are you for real? Did that actually work and was she into S&M?

          [–]sizzlingseveral 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          I love how she stills pretends to be a feminist at the end there, even though what's she's doing is basically the opposite of feminism.

          [–]mile-high[🍰] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Cool with some female realization, but you shouldn't need your woman to read this book. It's your job to guide her to what's best for her. She shouldn't give you control. You should take it, or better, it should never be in question that you already have it.