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Refresher: Don't talk to the Police (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by michael_wilkins

Apparently this needs to be repeated since that moron posted that thread about what to do about this chick who was accusing him of rape and most of the answers amounted to "try to talk your way out of it" (Thanks hooded kermit)

This video can never be reposted enough

In case you didn't watch it or didn't understand it, I'll try to explain it in text form.

Don't. Ever. Talk. To. The. Police.

This goes double if your innocent.

Assuming you live in the West, you are innocent untill proven guilty, this means that the prosecution has to prove that you did the crime you were accused of, your default position is innocent, or not guilty.

You can't get better then that.

Your already at the top of the pyramid.

There is no "double innocent"

Now if you are at the top of the pyramid what happens when you move in any direction? you slide down the pyramid. Therefore the way to remain at the top is to not move.

When the Police ask you, or anyone, questions, they are looking to put someone in jail. To do that they need to prove a story, generally

A) A crime

B) A perp

C) A motive

D) Where/When

When you are questioned, they have none of these things, and the only way they can get them is by using evidence to tell a story.

When you talk to the police you are giving them information, which they will turn into evidence.

Imagine someone is standing in front of you and they threaten to stab you, would you give them a knife or a block of wood?

Obviously you wouldn't give them the knife, so how about a block of wood? that's not a knife, what's the harm in that? The harm is that they then carve the block of wood into a knife and then proceed to stab you with the knife you just gave them.

If someone is trying to stab you, why would you give them anything?

The Police are trying to put you in jail, why would you give them anything?

If you volunteer that you were at home at 8pm, and you have evidence to back this up, why would you tell them this? all you've done is proven that your whereabouts at 9pm were unknown. And the prosecution will allege that you were at the scene of the crime because in your own words, you cannot account for your whereabouts at the time of the crime.

If your innocent, your exactly where you want to be, at the top of the pyramid, and it's the Police's job to remove you from the capstone. Why would you do their job for them by voluntarily moving?

Don't talk to the Police


[–]wayneinthegame 181 points182 points  (15 children)

Police will bully you into talking.

I went to jail one night because I talked to the police. When they read my rights I said "I should talk to my lawyer first" to their questions. Then this happened...

(COP on shoulder radio) " We've got a guy that needs a lawyer here."

There were already 5 cops surrounding me and he called for backup when I said I needed a lawyer. He ESCALATED. I panicked, spilled the beans and got charged with 2 felonies.

Classic good cop/bad cop routine and I fell for it. They use psychological tricks to get you to confess. It's not a conspiracy with the DA. Cops are like garbage men, they are just trying to get their job done simplest way possible. They don't worry about whether trash should be recycled, they just throw it in the back of their vehicle and ride to the next one.

Don't fall for their psychological tricks. Shut your mouth.

[–][deleted]  (8 children)

[deleted]

    [–]wayneinthegame 36 points37 points  (5 children)

    Well, I wasn't afraid of getting beaten up. I was totally calm and compliant, respectful. It was social pressure. I was always friendly to the policemen I met thru my job and wanted to be co-operative. They try to be your buddy to get you to open up.

    They are just doing their jobs and I don't blame them, but it is always in your best interest to plead the 5th and not speak to police. It is your right as an American citizen.

    [–]Davidskylarkk 52 points53 points  (4 children)

    In the US you don't say shit about the 5th when being questioned!! You take the 5th during a trial when you are subpoenaed and have no choice but to testify. Your right as a citizen is to ask for an attorney and not answer anything! If you plead the 5th during an interrogation, they have the right to continue to question you. The minute you say, "I want an attorney" they don't have a legal right to ask anything!!!

    [–]ChadKensingtonsTaint 21 points22 points  (0 children)

    What you need to do is ask is if you're being detained or if you're free to leave. If you're free to leave then leave. If you're being detained then you may invoke your miranda right to remain silent. You should also vocally say you're using your right to remain silent as counter-intuitive as that is.

    https://www.policeone.com/legal/articles/6285718-SCOTUS-ruling-Silence-can-be-evidence-as-guilt/

    And although Salinas had a qualified right to remain silent under the 5th Amendment, a suspect must invoke his rights and say he wants to remain silent, the court ruled Monday.

    [–]wayneinthegame 16 points17 points  (2 children)

    Right, you don't say "I plead the 5th" to a cop. The 5th ammendment says you have the right to not incriminate yourself, but that doesn't start when your on the stand. If you confess to a cop that is as good as confessing on the stand, especially if it's being taped; it WILL be used as evidence. Say you want to speak to your lawyer, but beware because that's what I did and they still coerced me into a confession. They say things like the judge will go easier on you if you cooperate. That's simply not true and anything you say will be bad for you.

    [–]Davidskylarkk 7 points8 points  (1 child)

    My point wasn't a legal argument. The fact is if you plead the 5th on 1 question, they can continue to ask questions. When you ask for an attorney, they have to legally stop asking questions. If you are just being brought in for questioning, when you ask for an attorney, it deads the questions anyway.

    I made the mistake when I was 16 when it was actually illegal for the police to interrogate me without a parent saying it was ok. I went to a girls house and had sex with her then some other dudes went there the same day and stole her fathers guns. I answered all their questions thinking I'm innocent I might as well. They held me for over 24 hours without notifying my parents and kept telling me they had proof I did it blah blah. I almost fucked myself, I wasn't 100% sure of exact times or what I did after so I changed things as I remembered. If they didn't actually catch the people who did it I'm sure I would have went to jail for a long ass time.

    [–]wayneinthegame 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Well it's good to think of it as a legal matter as soon as they start questioning you, that's the big mistake that I made. I treated as a conversation with other working men, rather than viewing my talk with them as being equal to sitting next to the judge in front of a jury and being questioned by a prosecutor trying to ensnare me...and talking to the cops is talking to a judge and jury.

    As far as trusting the cops to follow the letter of the law...they didn't in my case. I immediately said I want to talk to my lawyer but they intimidated me and continued questioning. Armchair strategy would say that I could sue the police Dept or that the evidence could be thrown out but that's just not how it works in the real world. I had a good lawyer and he knew that wasn't a real option. That's why it's so important that you strong on your knowledge that you MUST not speak to the police, because they will try to strong arm you into a confession for their own convenience.

    Good to hear you didn't get busted for a crime you didn't commit. And props for getting some in high school :)

    [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    What would you recommend that the person above do if he fell into the same situation again?

    [–]Endorsed ContributorThotwrecker 10 points11 points  (0 children)

    Say 2 things. First, am I free to go. If they say no, then you say you're invoking your right to remain silent and would like an attorney.

    [–]choomguy 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    Yep, they know how to fuck you and are vindictive as hell. Why would you offer them assistance?

    And they frequently use their position to further personal interests. Had one for a client once, and he ran a full background check on the owner of a home he was buying. I asked if that was legal, and he replied that it was if it was part of an investigation, wink, wink. Cocksucker.

    [–]DANKHARAMBAE 8 points9 points  (3 children)

    That sounds improper... pretty sure I've seen cases get thrown out because of stuff like that.

    [–]wayneinthegame 14 points15 points  (0 children)

    Yes, it is illegal for police to coerce a confession. He leaned on me a little by escalating and it worked. It was my first experience with police interrogating me. I knew better but didn't realize the gravity of my situation.

    Another perspective I got was dealing with the court system. They are very busy. Expediency is a main concern. I thought all these little details would matter...watched too much Matlock as a kid. They paint with a wide brush and if they can get you to take a plea deal they can get on to the next case.

    Your case is a big deal to you, but to the judge it is one of many. If the Prosecutor has a confession from you given to cops on their body cam, case closed. Best you can do is take the deal.

    [–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (1 child)

    I have a family member in prison because two detectives lied on the stand. Bro, improper is the default.

    [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    This is another one of those instances where cultivating frame benefits men outside of male/female sexual dynamics. The same self control you use with women, you should use at all times, especially when dealing with the police.

    [–]Senior Endorsed ContributorVasiliyZaitzev 264 points265 points  (20 children)

    So here's a free piece of advice:

    When YOU talk to law enforcement, anything you say can and will be used against you. When your LAWYER talks to law enforcement for you, it's just a lawyer talking.

    That's why you call your lawyer, and then shut your mouth. Breathe through your nose.

    [–]GlasgowStabber 70 points71 points  (7 children)

    I had to do this before and I answered every question, for hours, with; 'My lawyer has advised me not to answer". It was extremely tedious and actually quite hard to do, I can imagine it being near impossible in much more pressured situations.

    [–]BusterVadge 36 points37 points  (6 children)

    Couldn't you just answer their continued questions with complete silence?

    [–]Skipdash 30 points31 points  (0 children)

    Yes, but it can draw it out. If you keep telling them to talk to your lawyer, ask your lawyer or that your lawyer advised you not to answer anything they'll give up faster and go to your lawyer.

    [–]GlasgowStabber 9 points10 points  (0 children)

    I was 16 at the time and my lawyer, who was sitting beside me, had told me to give that answer for every question so i don't see any reason as to why I would have answered any other way. They were formal interviews with set out questions regarding the incident and I assume its protocol to ask every question. I'm in Scotland so no pleading the fifth but im pretty sure many US lawyers would deal with it in a similar fashion.

    [–]Endorsed ContributorThotwrecker 7 points8 points  (0 children)

    It is better to say that you're invoking your right to remain silent, and you're requesting a lawyer to each question. You qualify for the right to remain silent, but you have to "use" it and you want it on the record that you requested legal represantation and responded with a choice to be silent (rather than not responded at all).

    [–]GuitarHero07 20 points21 points  (8 children)

    Can an attorney please give a clarification on how one should avoid talking to the police? There seem to be some conflicting answers. Do you invoke your 5th Ammendment right? Your 6th Ammendment right? Do you stay quiet? Or do you say "I will not answer questions without my attorney present?"

    [–]GarandTheftAvto 35 points36 points  (3 children)

    I️ am a lawyer but I’m not your lawyer etc.

    You don’t need to invoke a specific right. You can just say “I️ wish to remain silent and will only answer questions with an attorney present.”

    The key is to be polite and respectful but state only that you wish to remain silent and want a lawyer.

    [–][deleted]  (2 children)

    [removed]

      [–]GarandTheftAvto 18 points19 points  (0 children)

      Then go meet one, or have an idea of one you can call if you have to. Otherwise-

      When you say you want a lawyer the police will need to end their questioning. They can still detain you and hold you, and question you later after a break, but they have to stop that particular phase of questioning. During this time you should collect yourself and try to figure out a way to contact a lawyer, literally any criminal defense lawyer from google will do. Misdemeanor court appearances and representation in my old suburban town runs about $1,000.00 as a flat rate. Even if you can't get a lawyer, keep your mouth shut- they can only hold you for ~24 hours before they need to release you if you haven't been charged.

      If you are young and have no money the best thing to do is call your parents and tell them you're being held by the police, but do NOT tell them any details of why you're there or what is going on. Whatever you tell them won't be privileged, and if you're on a cop phone obviously the line will be recorded. When you get in touch with your parents (and they're good parents) they will know what to do.

      [–]altaltaltpornaccount 7 points8 points  (0 children)

      Tell them you cannot afford a lawyer, but will only speak with your lawyer present.

      This will force them to either drop the issue or charge you, at which point you're eligible for a public defender.

      [–]Endorsed ContributorBluepillProfessor 16 points17 points  (0 children)

      Don't say 5th amendment or anything else!

      Just say, I want to talk to a lawyer.

      Done. Anything said after that in response to police questioning is not admissible but if you offer incriminating evidence it can still get in.

      So...I want to talk to a lawyer. Then stfu.

      [–]Senior Endorsed ContributorVasiliyZaitzev 14 points15 points  (1 child)

      It's situational. There are different rules for when you are operating a motor vehicle vs. walking along on the sidewalk. Let's assume the latter. First, for persons located within the USA, you have to know whether you are in a "stop and identify" state (~half the states) or not. If you are, then you have to produce ID when asked by the cop, but that's it. You don't have to tell them where you're going or what you're doing, etc.

      Here is what you do if you don't want to answer questions: "With respect, sir, I decline to answer any questions." After that, answer every question with "Am I being detained or am I free to go?" If you are free to go, shaddap and leave the area immediately. If you are being detained, say "I respectfully decline to answer any questions, and wish to contact my attorney" After that, STFU. Breathe through your nose.

      Note 1: Once you assert your right to remain silent, the cops are supposed to leave you alone. Depending on the individual cop - yes, I am looking at YOU, Mississippi - that may or may not happen.

      Note 2: After you STFU, you can still fuck up by re-engaging the cops by asking stupid questions. Everyone knows about Miranda - incidentally, Ernesto Miranda was a total shitbag who committed the rape he confessed to before having his case over turned, and who ultimately died in a barfight within a few years of his rise to (legal) fame - but not Edwards v. Arizona which states that police can question a suspect who, after having asserted his Miranda rights, decides to re-engage the police by asking stupid questions.

      Now, having said all that, I do sometimes talk to police, mostly because I'm a middle-aged white guy, and it's just mistaken identity or some shit. I also don't drink and drive so that's never a problem (different rules for that, plus a refusal to cooperate often results in a suspension of license, depending on state law), and I don't put my hands on people because I'm angry at them, unless it's not avoidable. But generally for most guys, the right answer is STFU. Doubly true if you did some wrong shit.

      [–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      you have to produce ID when asked by the cop

      You do not have to produce id, but you have to identify yourself, IF they suspect you of a crime. Hiibel v. Nevada.

      [–]Beakersful 2 points3 points  (2 children)

      And in the UK, if you don't talk in a police interview, this is what the police tell you: .

      "You do not have to say anything, but it may harm your defence if you do not mention when questioned something which you later rely on in court. Anything you do say may be given in evidence."

      So...... Request a lawyer (solicitor in the UK) , say you won't talk till they arrive, confer with the lawyer, and then make a statement.

      [–]YouKhanSeeMe 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      This is incorrect. They will caution you at the start of EVERY interview ("You do not have to say anything, but it may harm your defence if you do not mention when questioned something which you later rely on in court. Anything you do say may be given in evidence.") not if you don't say anything. You will be asked way before the interview if you want a solicitor and if you do then the interview won't even start before you have had at least a consultation with one.

      Even if you make a prepared statement the interviewer will still ask you every question they wanted to ask you regardless of whether you made a prepared statement or whether you actually answer any of the questions.

      [–]Beakersful 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      The point here is to get representation, not represent yourself.

      I've been screwed over by a police officer in an RTA. A friend got persuaded out of his representation.

      And loads of people I know got screwed over with cautions where I reckon if they had gone to court there'd have not been enough evidence to prosecute. Hence why the large proportion of student anti-fees protestors got off by refusing to be bullied.

      [–]THETRUMPTRUTHTRAIN 40 points41 points  (1 child)

      Police AND politicians get a lawyer when they are arrested EVERYTIME

      WHAT DOES THAT TELL YOU

      [–]goadsaid 3 points4 points  (0 children)

      That they know cops are bullies and assholes.

      [–]benefit111 89 points90 points  (7 children)

      Lawyer here. Can confirm.

      The police aren't your friends. Play it smart by not opening your mouth til a lawyer gets there.

      It's a game and as the loser you can end up in prison.

      [–][deleted]  (3 children)

      [deleted]

        [–]benefit111 8 points9 points  (0 children)

        I'm exercising my right to silence and would like to speak to a lawyer immediately.

        [–]cherryCanSuckMyDick 3 points4 points  (0 children)

        "I will not respond to any questions until I have spoken to my lawyer"

        [–]juliusstreicher 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        I'd leave off the 'respectfully'. Makes you sound like a bitch. WTF??? "Respectfully"??? What, you need to qualify your manners???

        You don't hear a waiter saying "Politely, may I take your order?" When you tell a bro he looks like shit, you don't say "Good-naturedly, you look like half a fag!"

        Just be respectful. No need to sound like such a cunt. Further, you are re-inforcing within yourself that you need to qualify yourself to have one of your own basic rights observed.

        [–]WalterEArmstrong 75 points76 points  (19 children)

        "On the advice of my attorney I invoke my constitutional right to remain silent and wish to speak to my attorney."

        [–]sickofallofyou 26 points27 points  (1 child)

        You actually have to say this in the USA or you can be nailed for obstructing an investigation.

        [–]006rbc 11 points12 points  (0 children)

        Sad this even has to be done

        [–]Fughazi 36 points37 points  (2 children)

        "On the advice of counsel I invoke my Fifth Amendment privilege against self-incrimination and respectfully decline to answer your question"

        [–]Dat_Chad 18 points19 points  (1 child)

        TLDR "I want to call a lawyer"

        [–]purplecabbage 9 points10 points  (0 children)

        Also: "Am I being detained? Am I free to go?"

        [–]chocolate_chimp 8 points9 points  (12 children)

        cop here, you don't have to say all that, and you look like an ass when you do. you can talk to us like normal people. "I don't really like answering questions from the police, so I'm not gonna say anything."

        [–]h8_2_deb8_m8 30 points31 points  (0 children)

        Good thing we have a cop to tell us what to and not to say to the police.

        [–]Endorsed ContributorThotwrecker 18 points19 points  (0 children)

        This is a really bad idea. The reason people are best served by looking autistic and following the script is that in the heat of the moment, talking to you conversationally aka "like normal people" leads to fuck ups. Which is why most cops will just try to talk to you on your level when you first say you're lawyer / silent speal. "We're just normally having a convo" is a frame, and in that frame, many many many a person has let slip more than they otherwise would.

        Just repeat the exact words you know are going to work. Am I free to go -> Am I being detained -> (yes) -> I'm invoking my right to remain silent and I would like to speak with a lawyer before any further questioning -> (cop ignores you and conversationally asks "well look I'm just trying to clear the record so you can go free - you weren't involved at all?") -> I'm invoking my right to....

        It's the least prone to human error. Most kids can't talk to women without feeling all nervous and anxious and word-vomiting. Let alone a cop. Don't shoot the shit with them, they are better at it than you.

        [–]kjuca 5 points6 points  (0 children)

        Thanks, that's very helpful. I had an encounter with a cop years ago and I asked if I was being detained and said I wanted to speak to a lawyer. I felt like an ass because I didn't really know what I was talking about and it's not like regular people just keep lawyers on retainer all the time.

        Interestingly he caught me off guard with a conversational question that I answered in a conversational way and it ended up getting me in a lot of trouble. Not talking to the police is harder than it sounds.

        [–]FinallyRed 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        It's one thing to be polite with an officer in a routine encounter, but you enter very different territory the moment they start asking questions and/or start trying to gain access to your person/property.

        You have nothing to gain and everything to lose using a colloquialism that could be construed as something in court. Use a script with unequivocal meaning and shut your mouth.

        [–]choomguy 0 points1 point  (4 children)

        Yeah, true, better not to sound as if youve bern watching youtube videos on why you dont talk to police. Having the appearance of experience in not talking to police doesnt look good.

        [–]chocolate_chimp 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        "can't you just give me a warning like the last guy?!"

        [–]FinallyRed 1 point2 points  (2 children)

        That makes absolutely no sense. Police are going to tread more lightly around someone who has an inkling about the legal process and who instead of proclaiming loudly that they know their rights (and thus likely don't), confidently and calmly demonstrate that knowledge.

        [–]choomguy 0 points1 point  (1 child)

        Ok, you go first...

        Heres the problem, white guy uses some of the intelligent response posted here, might get a little leeway. Black guy does it, watch think goan happen mufucka. Bottom line is if a cop wants to fuck with you, even if your a godamm lawyer, hes gonna fuck with you. And if he shoots you, hes/she gonna get off and be working one town over to fuck with you there. Google the video of lisa merkel shooting a man in hummelstown pa a few years ago. That was over a bad inspection sticker. Im not saying the guy complied, he ran, but it shows you what they will get away with even if its a white guy. Now, ask yourself why a white guy cop shooting thats even on video, didnt get any national attention.

        [–]FinallyRed 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        I’m pressed to think of a situation in which you physically comply with the police (advisable even if you think they are breaking the law) and get shot.

        You contradicted yourself saying the cops will fuck with you if they want to. Shooting the shit and answering their questions no matter how innoquous won’t deter them in that instance don’t you agree?

        [–]Senior Endorsed ContributorVasiliyZaitzev 43 points44 points  (8 children)

        For anyone thinking they "should" talk with any type of federal agent, here's why you don't do it:

        18 U.S. Code § 1001

        Lying to a fed is a crime. Now, I don't support lying, generally, but for most people (i.e. non-lawyers), they have No Idea that this is a crime. It's how the gov't "gets" people when they can't prove shit about the underlying crime. It's how they got Martha Stewart. I don't have any sympathy for her, because she used to be a broker and should have known her shit was illegal, but I don't particularly care for how heavy-handed the government can be, either.

        Most people get it that they shouldn't lie under oath, but when they're just talking to an agent? It's a trap.

        [–]Uptown_NOLA 41 points42 points  (7 children)

        It is actually much worse than that. I use to work in a criminal law office. The FBI refuses to use recorders for the field interviews. Instead they use a two agent routine where one agent questions and the other writes down the questions and answers. So later, even years later, if you are required to answer those questions and you answer different than the FBI agents notes claim, you will be in violation of Making False Statements and can be put in prison for up to five years. Once, the FBI wanted to question one of the attorneys clients I worked for and she told them, sure, come into my office and we will do the questioning while I record it. The FBI had ZERO desire to perform those questions while being recorded and they didn't do the questioning. Think about that. They didn't need any questions answered, they needed to get leverage on the client. They use this technique very effectively on the associates of the accused. They interview innocent associate, who takes the interview because, gee, they didn't do anything, the FBI ask A, you reply B and the agent records the answer as C. Later they interview you again and when you once again answer B to the A question, they arrest you for lying to them. At this point the prosecutor can now compel you to testify what he wants you to say for immunity and just like that they have the original suspect over the barrell and they force a plea deal.

        [–]Davidskylarkk 15 points16 points  (5 children)

        This is all they want in most cases, plea it out and pay your money. Innocence means nothing!! They know the system is set up to where a plea is cheaper and easier than fighting a bullshit charge. Keep your mouth shut and do not ever help them!! They will tell you only guilty people need lawyers or if you don't talk you look guilty. I'd rather look guilty at home than look innocent in jail!

        In a case where you're accused of rape, you're fucked already. 99% of the time they will believe the woman and let you hash it out in court. The problem is, once your arrested for rape, it's on your record. If this happens to you, don't ever take a plea!!! Even if they offer you a fine for littering as a plea!!! It will always say the original charge is rape!!!!! If they are willing to plea it out for a fine or whatever, they have no case and you need to fight until they drop charges.

        [–]choomguy 4 points5 points  (0 children)

        Can confirm. Not a rape charge, but got charged with criminal trespass as a teen for swimming in a pool after hours. Local justice laughed the cop put of court and reduced it to defiant trespass, a summary offense. Got fine and ard and records were to be destroyed. Years later it came up in an employment situation. Went to courthouse and pulled up file, it read charge-criminal trespass, disposition- reduced to defiant, and heres the kicker, it was rubber stamped in red, “records destroyed”. So employers position was that i lied when asked if i was ever charged with a felony. I subsequently petitioned for expungement which was granted and i was mailed back the state and local records. I know the cocksuckers woul still have it at the federal level if i ever needed a security clearance.

        [–]ChadKensingtonsTaint 3 points4 points  (3 children)

        And it doesn't really matter even if it gets thrown out in the end. You will always have an arrest for rape on your record and you will be forced to disclose that to all potential employers.

        [–]juliusstreicher 0 points1 point  (2 children)

        I think that federal law prohibits 'arrest' as a question for all but government jobs. Even convictions are not to be inquired about, unless they are job related. I THINK.

        [–]ChadKensingtonsTaint 0 points1 point  (1 child)

        Anyone that runs a background check on you will see it whether you tell them or not. And I'm not aware of any law preventing them from asking.

        [–]juliusstreicher 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        I don't know if it is a law or case law, but, when I was managing a fastfoods restaurant, our HR laid it out that we couldn't ask anything like that, and our literature and some applications included warnings that employers were not allowed to ask about even criminal convictions unless it directly affected their job, and even then, there could be exceptions.

        [–]Rommel0502 18 points19 points  (0 children)

        My best friend used to be a DA. His unwaivering advice to me - "Dont ever answer a single question from the police without a lawyer present." He specifically told me all those questions are designed to screw you.

        This is from a pretty conservative guy and otherwise supporter of the police.

        [–]The-Devilz-Advocate 28 points29 points  (8 children)

        I'd also throw in University Investigators to the mix, do not go to a meeting ALONE. Ps: If you are ever accused of rape in an University or College and the main investigators are University officials, I would urge you to get an attorney and go directly to the police and notify them of the investigation. That way you at least have a better chance of clearing your name than by letting the Uni officials do it alone.

        [–]006rbc 23 points24 points  (0 children)

        College investigations are guilty until proven innocent.

        [–]SilentDeadlyKiller 4 points5 points  (6 children)

        Doesn't "notifying the police of the investigation" fly in the face of everything in that video? I'm wondering what the benefit is.

        [–]The-Devilz-Advocate 12 points13 points  (2 children)

        The benefit of actually getting a trial that can be legally proven and recorded. When you get accused of rape in an University the same University investigators will investigate, but in contrast to a real legal trial you cannot "defend" yourself.

        What I mean is simple, lets say you get accused and the University finds that there is no "hard" evidence of proving that the rape occured, yet the University decides that it's best for them to kick you out, since the drama blew out all over campus. Now you cannot challenge that decision, your reputation inside the campus is ruined and finally other Universities will deny you admission because in the official file you got kicked out because of "sexual indecencies". Now if you had gone straight to the police, the University is OBLIGATED to relinquish everything in the investigation to them (police) so legally speaking if they don't find any evidence to prove that you did it, congratulations you now have a legal document that can disprove whatever the University says happened.

        Story time: A friend of mine was accused of rape in our University, once the investigation started, the drama blew up, he got harassed trough an entire week (and went to 2 obligated appointments alone with the Uni officials) before he told me what was going on (We were sitting in an outdoor table when 3 women threw a cup of soda at us and verbally called us rapists) I had no idea what had just happened but when I saw his almost defeated face I knew what was happening.

        He wanted my advice since I'm a Pre-Law student and the first thing I told him was to get a good lawyer, the second thing was go straight to the police and tell them that you were accused of rape and the Uni officials are withholding the investigation; keyword: withholding, legally speaking it is illegal to any Institution to not communicate to the police of a crime (at least where I live). This set in motion a domino effect that ultimately resulted in him getting a real trial where he was found not guilty because the girl had lied multiple times on the stand and even texted to a known friend of hers about her "lying to her bf about what had happened because she was afraid of losing him". Finally he then sued the University for what had happened and settled with about $10,000 (After lawyer fees) and a public apology sent to every University employee and student about what had happened.

        [–]Senior Contributordr_warlock 14 points15 points  (0 children)

        $10,000 is chump change and doesnt come close to just compensation. 'Sexually harassed' women get tons more than that and being accused of rape is infinitely worse.

        [–]SilentDeadlyKiller 7 points8 points  (0 children)

        So you're essentially advocating fighting fire with fire, and leveraging one arm of the tyrannical state to fight another. If it's legit, that's actually really smart. Do you have other sources besides your own experience?

        [–]GarandTheftAvto 3 points4 points  (2 children)

        I️ agree, not sure what he meant here. Going to the police never helps. Also, many universities forbid attorneys from their judicial hearings. It would be funny if it wasn’t so fucked up.

        [–]juliusstreicher 0 points1 point  (1 child)

        I can see, however, how it may aid in a civil trial against the University. "So, my client wanted to bring along his own legal counsel, and YOUR RULES PROHIBIT a Constitutionally guaranteed right, Mr. Evil Deeppockets University??????"

        [–]GarandTheftAvto 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        I mean it may. The 6A right to counsel doesn't apply to private/public university judicial processes though so you'd be aiming at the jury when you're making the argument. And if you're aiming at the jury and at a trial regardless you're usually fucked, unfortunately.

        [–]lll_lll_lll 27 points28 points  (2 children)

        A good example of this:

        A friend of mine once made the mistake of talking to police when she was visibly intoxicated but needed to move her car from one side of the street to the other to comply with parking signs.

        She asked a couple of cops nearby if it would be legal to park in a particular spot and they said, “sure, go ahead, that spot is fine.” They were joking around with her and acting like her friend. Then watched her walk over, get in her car and turn the key, then arrested her for DUI. She spent the night in jail, insurance went up and she got the parking ticket anyway.

        [–]Veegun 13 points14 points  (0 children)

        Reminds me of a time I was given a fine because it took me a while to get my train ticket out and when I showed it to him, he didn't care. People are assholes for KPIs

        [–]Andgelyo 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        I know this is bad, but when I read this I was LMAO haha

        [–]Wheysteve 105 points106 points  (26 children)

        Too true. I definitely back the police and respect them highly. It may be their job but I made the bad choice to talk to them years ago and yes it ended badly. Learn from this everyone

        [–]Rationalphobic 25 points26 points  (19 children)

        [–]yomo86 7 points8 points  (17 children)

        In a textbook encounter with the police being friendly, polite and nice but silent makes the difference between "you are allowed to order pizza and are released one hour after your attorney shows up" and "get cuffed, get charged with resisting an officer and a long weekend in custody." In the first case all officer Tiresome has to do is checking the remaining silent and asked for a lawyer box. The latter is entirely different.

        [–]Rationalphobic 82 points83 points  (10 children)

        I'm not saying be disrespectful or non compliant, I've dealt with law enforcement, I'm saying this back the blue nonsense needs to stop. It's a sign of submission to your oppressors. They have zero loyalty to you or your family. If you want to back services like the fire department or emt's then you have the right idea, they save lives, police officers are revenue collectors for the state and will only "help" in the interest of the state.

        [–]choomguy 6 points7 points  (2 children)

        Revenue generators is more descript. The days of protect and serve are a relic of the past.

        [–]4thdementia 9 points10 points  (1 child)

        it's honestly telling that this doesn't have more upvotes, sadly

        [–]juliusstreicher -1 points0 points  (0 children)

        Well, it's not an entirely honest depiction of cops.

        [–]purplecabbage 7 points8 points  (0 children)

        Got that right. Unfortunately you're gonna be down-voted unless most RPers are familiar with Rothbard, Mises, or Spooner.

        [–]juliusstreicher 0 points1 point  (3 children)

        I'm all against kissing cops' asses, but, let's be real: they perform a service FOR the public. That is what they are paid for. Most of them have a moral streak which prevents criminals from walking over us, and are happy to help a citizen at the expense of some POS criminal.

        Of course, some can be assholes, and some are forced to be tools of evil DAs. Further, they are only human, and if you want to throw your legal rights onto some funeral pyre, they can't be blamed for taking the rewards. Overall, however, they are a benefit.

        [–]Rationalphobic 1 point2 points  (2 children)

        If their duty isn't to protect the public, what is it then? You just don't want to believe it because you've been conditioned not to.

        [–]juliusstreicher 0 points1 point  (1 child)

        Don't try and sell me that. I've been on both sides. You think I'm going to buy your side if I don't buy the other???

        Cops are there to protect us. It has worked FOR me numerous times. I never said that they were members of Arthur's Round Table.

        [–]Rationalphobic 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        I don't try and convince anyone, the proof is in the pudding. You should probably experience life a little more and make that observation for yourself.

        [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (5 children)

        order pizza

        The fuck jail you’ve been too? That’s some made up shit.

        [–]yomo86 7 points8 points  (4 children)

        Being in jail and being in police custody are two very different things and it is not always the picture you see in the movies of cops beating the living shit out of the accused. You would be surprised how far politeness can take you.

        In police custody you are technically innocent so according to the law and most police officers, if the alleged crime is not too heinous you are allowed some pleasantries.

        [–][deleted] -4 points-3 points  (3 children)

        No seriously in what fucking jail did this ever happen? Give me a specific recent story.

        [–]yomo86 2 points3 points  (2 children)

        No need to be agitated. http://www.legal-aid.org/en/ineedhelp/ineedhelp/criminalproblem/faq/whatcaniexpectifiamarrested.aspx

        You have the right to a pre-set menu of food. Most police officers I talked to allow to order pizza. Once again, if one behaves and is cooperative. Of course, if Tyrone or Jamelia is vandalizing police property and shouting profanities at people no one will be nice in return.

        I got once pulled over and had to do a blood drug test because police did not want to believe that my eye medication was the cause of my wide pupils. They were nice, I was nice. Test was done and one of the cops got me a hamburger when he went out to get dinner for the rest of the cops until the results were in.

        [–]mr_intentional -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

        I really just want to know why you used "Tyrone" and "Jamelia"?

        [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        No need to be agitated

        Dude I know of all of zero people who’ve had an experience like this with the law. Fuck man. This is some Barney Fife fantasy. I was just happy my shit wasn’t stolen when I got out. TDCJ (Texas Department of Criminal Justice) fucking tried to starve us in there. We had fist fights all the time and worse shit. Good luck getting medical care when incarcerated. In the summer it’s hot as fuck and there’s no a/c. You literally fry. Shit is miserable. County jail was worse. When I got locked up in Louisiana it wasn’t any better.

        [–]Forgot_Pword 22 points23 points  (5 children)

        Story time? It could help to reinforce the lesson.

        [–]Wheysteve 31 points32 points  (0 children)

        It doesn't relate to women (luckily) but when I was a teenager I had a campfire that went out of control and spread to an abandoned house and acre of woods. Somehow the police managed to find me and asked I come to the station to talk about it (never do that) I informed them I knew nothing but that I was in the area (that added fuel to their own fire) couldn't give a proper story and wouldn't crack. That's when they literally called in the "bad cop", he was the strictest Sgt on the force...told me some bs that convinced me I was screwed and I fessed up. That ended up with me in jail for 1 month...some takeaways from this I would say are: the police will do anything to fulfill their job and don't believe them, they obviously can and will lie to you. Get a lawyer and maintain your right to stay silent. (Literally answer NOTHING.) and don't play with fire whether it be women or the literal thing.

        [–]electricspresident 107 points108 points  (3 children)

        No it wouldn't, u just fuckin curious

        [–]Wolveryn 12 points13 points  (1 child)

        I’m curious and I want to hear it!

        [–]juliusstreicher 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        You're wrong. Repetition of a story WOULD reinforce the lesson. Always does.

        [–][deleted] 16 points17 points  (0 children)

        Let me put this in different terms.

        The criminal justice system is a big heavy machine that only moves in one direction: towards conviction.

        This machine, once moving, is VERY hard to stop. This is why innocent people end up in jail and good lawyers are expensive. This machine does not move in reverse when it runs over the wrong person, as evidenced by people who are exhonerared by DNA evidence and still struggle to get convictions overturned.

        Source: I have a family member doing life because he talked. I’vve volunteered with prison groups and talked to many inmates. I’ve also been in jail.

        The police are there to make an arrest. I don’t care what you grew up thinking they’re for or what good people they are. They are there to make an arrest. As they say, you can beat the rap, but you can’t beat the ride. Shut up. If you get arrested still you can deal with it later. You cannot talk your way out of arrest.

        The DA’s entire existence centers around conviction not justice. Read that again. They are there to convict people not serve justice. I don’t care about all the Law and Order you grew up watching. This guy will loose his job if he doesn’t maintain a certain tough-on-crime number of convictions.

        The entire justice system, therefore, is your enemy. Treat it that way and you might not end up with your life ruined.

        [–][deleted] 28 points29 points  (0 children)

        DON'T EVER TALK TO COPS ABOUT ANYTHING. YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO REMAIN SILENT AND THE RIGHT TO AN ATTORNEY.

        For real. My friend growing up fell into the school to prison pipeline for not recognizing his rights. Poor kid did 6 months in county jail for non violent/non drug offenses.. Oh by the way he is WHITE too so don't think this shit can't happen to you just cause you are white. The system isn't racist.. It's CLASSIST.

        Seriously I'd rather get beat with a phonebook than have to do a 6month bid. Keep your mouth shut.

        [–]destinationtomorrow 15 points16 points  (0 children)

        but if they carved that block of wood into a knife wouldn't that mean they already have a knife? other than that I agree. NEVER talk to the police.

        [–]Brewjo 9 points10 points  (0 children)

        Don't even need to open the link.

        James Duane's video was one of the first I ever watched on youtube adn I go back to it still.

        [–]Afghan_Whig 7 points8 points  (6 children)

        He put out a book recently expanding on this lecture. Very short, but I'll save you from reading it. He's said that recent Supreme Court decisions have withered away the protections of the 5th amendment (IE keeping silent of instead of saying I plead the fifth not counting as using the 5th amendment). So instead of pleading the 5th, he recommends pleading the 6th instead and demanding a lawyer.

        [–]michael_wilkins[S] 2 points3 points  (5 children)

        How would keeping silent hurt you though? As opposed to "formally" claiming the 5th?

        [–]Afghan_Whig 5 points6 points  (4 children)

        I will have to look up the passage when I get a chance. In essence it can be brought to the jury's attention that you kept silent as a means of inferring guilt. There was one case he cited in particular where despite someone remaining silent for hours and hours upon end in the face of questioning it wasn't understood that he claimed the fifth.

        I believe you now have to literally state "I plead the fifth" and not just remain silent, but that depending on when you plead the fifth it can be tilted as an admission of guilty. It involved like I said recent Supreme Court cases, and because of which he said to plead the 6th rather than the 5th and to respectfully demand an attorney.

        [–]Nicolacho7 6 points7 points  (2 children)

        I had a small law class in my high school. My teacher was mentioning how the cops can bypass the 5th amendment through normal conversation. “If they offer you water and other stuff, you can accept it but plead the 5th right after again because a conversation was initiated”

        [–]superchester05 0 points1 point  (1 child)

        That sounds just dumb. I can't believe someone would teach someone that.

        [–]Nicolacho7 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Why is it dumb? Cops will always try to start regular conversation to get info out of you.

        [–]herpy_McDerpster 3 points4 points  (0 children)

        I respectfully invoke and refuse to waive my 4th, 5th, and 6th amendment rights.

        [–]RedwallAllratuRatbar 4 points5 points  (0 children)

        This is more of use in the US, where incriminating people is a business. But I learned they have this kind of "psychiatric disease" or we rather call it inclination, where they learned how to incriminate and/or put in bad light everyone. They ask questions with malicious intentions. Even if your family member is a policeman, basically pretend he doesn't exist or is a spy. There was this video how police lies to people, it was heart-breaking.

        One thing I remember from video is that they like say "your friend ratted on you. Or Fingerprint analysis is done, it was you" - days or weeks before such analysis/interrogation would be even possible with their resources :D

        [–]DubClub 3 points4 points  (1 child)

        "“You do not have to say anything. But, it may harm your defence if you do not mention when questioned something which you later rely on in court."

        [–]hansfriedee 2 points3 points  (1 child)

        Serious question : what if you don't have a lawyer, and you are innocent or didn't do anything? Won't you be more likely arrested if you don't cooperate? Then do you ask for a public defender or what once in jail?

        [–]juliusstreicher 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        In truth, your question is EXACTLY what the cops hope that you (erroneously, to your detriment) believe. They may even pressure you into believing it.

        [–]PoopyPartyPants 4 points5 points  (0 children)

        Great post. You always had the right to remain silent. You typically want to have a lawyer, and even if you dont, you still SHUT THE FUCK UP.

        We open our mouths because we're social creatures. We think 1) we have to talk, and 2) we can outsmart a cop by manipulating the words we use. Cops are way more skilled in psychology than the average person. Do yourself a favor and don't open your mouth.

        I learned a lot by watching former cops speak out on YouTube. Another great resource is the show COPS. That TV show literally shows you 1) what NOT to do as a suspect, and 2) how the cops use words in order to get the confession.

        Additionally, when a cop says "theres something i can for you", theres NOTHING they will do for you. Don't fall for the trap.

        Furthermore, if you know you're going to be questioned along with a friend, then make sure your friend knows to not open their mouth (good luck if your friend is a woman). Cops ALWAYS separate parties. Everyone is questioned seaparately. You will see this happen on the show COPS without fail. Remember, police officers lie all the time. "Your friend said....".

        A cop's job is to make arrests. It's a performance based job. If they don't make arrests, they don't advance in their career. It could possibly lead to demotion or termination, not to mention harassment from their fellow officers. Having to meet a quota means manufactured arrests (innocent people going to jail).

        I could go on and on about this topic...

        I'll close out on this ... Police act like predatory animals. If you respond as prey, then you're going to get busted. They purposefully do things that would scare an otherwise normal person into responding poorly. They know people do dumb shit when they're scared and they use that shit to their advantage.

        Take it easy, TRP. Be silent.

        [–]JohnnyBlack22 3 points4 points  (0 children)

        you're (not your)= you are ffs. good post tho

        [–]srobinson2012 4 points5 points  (1 child)

        Great advice BUT how could they carve a knife out of a block of wood without already having a knife?

        [–]Andgelyo 5 points6 points  (0 children)

        I thought the same thing lmao he could’ve just said that he could still kill you by bashing your head with a block of wood

        [–]adamantiumvibranium 5 points6 points  (0 children)

        Very good advice here.

        Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law never for you.

        The prosecutions job is to convict you and lock you away and make sure you get the highest sentence they can get. They will definitely not use evidence that could undermine and make them loose their case in your favor.

        If all you say is you refuse to answer any questions without a lawyer present that is all they can use against you. Always record any conversations just in case they attempt to say you said something that you didn't. Cops may not always lie but no one has a perfect memory and they may just happen to remember events differently than you did.

        Lastly besides not talking to the cops don't talk to friends, your neighbor, hell even your dog they can also be used against you. Only talk to your lawyer period.

        [–]Listen_up_slapnuts 4 points5 points  (0 children)

        If they have a carving knife, why would they carve the wooden block? Also you're

        [–]F_Dingo 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        “You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. You have the right to an attorney. If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be provided for you. Do you understand the rights I have just read to you? With these rights in mind, do you wish to speak to me?”

        That should be enough to tell you to SHUT YOUR MOUTH!

        [–]Doomfox81 1 point2 points  (3 children)

        In the criminal justice system sexually based offenses are considered especially heinous, in new york city the dedicated detectives who investigate these vicious felonies are members of an elite squad known as the special victims unit, these are their stories.

        [–]juliusstreicher 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        These are their stories, but, what about the innocent? Are we going to broadcast their names? What protection will they have?

        [–]Throwawaysteve123456 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        I can only talk about the constitution in Canada and the US, although most commonwealth countries are very similar to Canada/UK, but in the US, silence cannot be presumed to be an indicator of guilt. For sexual assault allegations where you're innocent, it is the best route to take. Although I wouldn't extend this advice to everyone. If everyone in the world took this approach, we wouldn't be able to convict ANYONE. Imagine all the people that would be on the streets. If you're SUSPECTED of anything, you don't say a word and lawyer up; if you're a witness? Fuck, why wouldn't you want to help someone who was a victim? That's just me though, cheers.

        Any criminal law prof will tell you that you can do no wrong by saying nothing.

        [–]Alpmarmot 1 point2 points  (1 child)

        Are there some international pillers which can give a take on how it is in their countries? It feels like this post refers mainly to the situation in the US.

        [–]michael_wilkins[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        if your in a western country then you generally have a case law precedent for silence. But check yourself.

        [–]TheRedPillRipper 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        [–]RcskaSedd 3 points4 points  (2 children)

        I Remember listening to This American Life, which is a storytelling radio show.

        One of the Episodes was about a woman who recently had a baby that died for an unknown reason.

        Of course, the Police got involved and did an investigation.

        The mother answered simple question

        The police did an Autopsy report

        Few days past and the Police called and asked the women to come down to the station. They said they found chip of cracked skull on the baby's head and wanted to question her some more.

        The women complied (knowing she was innocent) and thought that maybe something happen to the baby when she wasn't looking or something else happened.

        At soon as she got to the station, The Police officers began to grill her and question her. They accused her of murder the baby and she was held for 72 hours.

        SHe called her husband and told him what happened. So he called the people who were doing the Autopsy and they told him the baby died of natural causes.

        Eventually she was released because The Autopsy report stated the baby died of natural causes and was caused by a rare disease that hardly shows any symptoms.

        She was released.

        Now you understand why African American and Latino DO NOT TALK TO THE PEOPLE.

        [–]RedwallAllratuRatbar 3 points4 points  (0 children)

        Indeed, such terrible lies should be banned. No wonder people hate "them"

        [–]kragshot 4 points5 points  (0 children)

        The reason that we don't talk to the police is simply that the police are just like any other predatory and dangerous organism. Yeah, spiders eat flies and mosquitos but you still don't want one in your house because what if it decides to bite the baby?

        You have a guy that calls the police about an issue, so the cops show up and ask can they come into his house to talk. However, the cops aren't really coming into the house to talk to him. They are actually coming in to look for something to bust him over.

        So, during the discussion, one cop finds an ashtray that has .25mm of a roach (the last bit of a joint) in it. So, now this guy that called the cops to talk is getting handcuffed and taken away over that last bit of a joint that not only most likely doesn't even have any marijuana in it but probably isn't even his. And the ultimate irony of the situation is that the guy called the cops originally because there was a murder around the corner from his house and he saw who did it, so he wanted to testify.

        We don't deal with the police because to them, we are not citizens. We are just a potential arrest waiting for the right circumstances to happen so they can get the collar.

        [–]lbguitarist 0 points1 point  (3 children)

        What if you have evidence to corobborate your alibi? (e.g. on CCTV at work for 8 hours)

        Just trying to understand how this could go pear-shaped.

        [–]F_Dingo 4 points5 points  (1 child)

        Talk to your lawyer about it.

        [–]juliusstreicher 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        First thing: YOU make sure that YOU have control of all evidence IMMEDIATELY. If you wait for the police, your employer or even a trusted friend to save it, collect it, or refrain from erasing it, you are hosed.

        [–]Poonslayer42069 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        I wish you posted this before I got arrested over the summer haha. What does this have to do with the red pill though?

        [–][deleted]  (1 child)

        [deleted]

        [–]TheDarkRanger 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        "Confiscating" your phone as "evidence"... Yeah, sure... more like deleting evidence.

        To me it seems that the police pulls this shit off to strip you of any credibility and defence and everybody walks away happy (except you) - fake rape accuser gets her 10 minutes of fame in the spotlight and the prosecutor gets another successful conviction.

        [–]juliusstreicher 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Watch Part 2 as well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08fZQWjDVKE

        His cop friend gives his imprimatur and elaborates.

        [–]WISE_TURD 0 points1 point  (1 child)

        • Your is a possessive adjective. (Other possessive adjectives are my, your, his, her, its, our, and their.)

        • You're is a contraction of you are. It has no other uses. This is a 100% rule. If you cannot expand it to you are in your sentence, then it is wrong.

        [–]juliusstreicher 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Shouldn't there be quotation marks around "you are" in your sentence??

        [–]Davidskylarkk -1 points0 points  (0 children)

        And the worst part is you more than likely didn't get the job because of their fuck up. Happened to me with a fucking traffic ticket. I had a great job offer that required a license but the DMV fucked up and had my license listed as suspended so a 100k a year cushy job just went away. Bastards.

        [–]yellowbelliedturtle -1 points0 points  (0 children)

        That video is gold. I'm so thankful for the U.S. justice system and the genius of the founding fathers.