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35% of young adult men in America now live with their parents (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by wolololololololo

http://money.cnn.com/2016/07/18/news/economy/nba-player-jeff-teague-live-with-parents/index.html

http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2016/05/24/for-first-time-in-modern-era-living-with-parents-edges-out-other-living-arrangements-for-18-to-34-year-olds/

"So many people know someone who has moved back in with their parents. Any stigma that used to exist isn't there anymore," says Kim Parker, director of social trends research at Pew.

The "live at home" trend is especially popular among men under 35. A whopping 35% of young adult men in America now live with their parent(s), versus just 29% of young women. Young men are delaying marriage and all the usual trappings that come with it like home buying and kids. The main reason? Money, or the lack of it.

"Men who don't have jobs are much more likely to live at home," says Parker, and "men without jobs are much less likely to be married."

I see that last paragraph as being the most important point. As more and more men are squeezed out of an ever shrinking job market, or a market more geared towards women friendly jobs, more and more men will stay at home and not get married.

Funnily, it is still lower for young women living at home at 29% 35vs . More often having that partner to lean on, generall richer and older? Or having access to high paying jobs when youger? Yet still we hear about this wage gap and male priviledge. This also means the 'dateable' man pool gets smaller and smaller as well. (Unless they're the hot bad boy and all they do is work out and sponge of the parents,but then its really a fuckbuddy thing). No income, no moving out, no marriage, no kids, goodbye natural birth rate, hello immigration replacement to keep the pension ponzi going.


[–][deleted] 279 points280 points  (113 children)

A few things to note. Young people this era have much higher costs of everything than our parents and grandparents ever had. Housing in some parts of the country is 4 times the cost as it was 25 years ago. Most of my dad's friends bought homes when they were under $110,000 and now they are all $450k+. These middle aged men could not afford to buy the homes they have lived in for 25-30 years with the jobs they currently have.

Houses in my area are being bought by married couples who both partners are professionals so their household income is $120k+. I had a few friends that were saving money from the time they got out of high school and were able to buy a house for very low prices immediately after the crash in 2007.

Everything is much more expensive. Food costs significantly more, health care is a few multiples of what it was 25 years ago. My health insurance is $220 per month. 30 years ago comparable insurance was somewhere around $30-$40 per month. A weekly food budget of $100 today has a comparable spending power to about $30 did in 1991.

Also note. Saving money for a house is next to impossible because your money gains almost nothing year to year. With absolutely no financial literacy, just putting money in the bank, people could get 10-16% interest in the 1980's with some people briefly getting 19%. Save $100 and a year later it will be worth $115. Now if you save $100 a year later it will be worth $101. To really make it sound fucked, in order to make $1000 per year in interest, at 15% you just need a little under $7000 in the bank, and at the peak interest of 19% you just needed a little over $5000. Regular simps actually made this sort of interest just by putting their money in the bank. But today to make $1000 per year in interest you need anywhere from $95,000 to $110,000 in the bank.

Really extrapolate this out. The annual income in the 1980s was about $16,000 per year. If someone had $112,000 in the bank they would make enough on interest that would be equivalent to the average working person's annual pay. They could literally retire as their interest made them enough money they did not have to work. It was possible, and many people did this where they would work to get enough money in the bank and then have the interest cover their mortgage. This did not require any risk as everything was FDIC insured and did not require any sort of financial decision making other than putting money in a bank and keeping it there. Today this value is about $53,000. In order to make $53,000 at bank interest you need well over $5 million in the bank.

So working comparable jobs makes considerably less money, there are jobs which paid $10 per hour in 1991 that pay maybe $12-$13 per hour today. The basic costs are all much higher (food, energy, healthcare, insurance, education). Taxes are considerably higher on certain things (sales tax has gone up across the board). Saving your money in a bank offers almost no upside as interest rates are so incredibly small so gaining wealth via simple savings is much more difficult.

There needs to be an economic correction. It is inevitable. That which goes on forever will eventually stop.

[–]trancedj 54 points55 points  (18 children)

"There needs to be an economic correction."

An old time friend of the family has been talking about this. He calls it an "adjustment period."

Can you elaborate on this? What would a correction look like? A depression?

Great post btw.

[–]ARUKET 69 points70 points  (4 children)

The federal reserve has been propping up this phony economy for a long term, and by letting the market do its job, there would be a crash but likely recovery within a few years

[–]johnnygeeksheek 7 points8 points  (3 children)

I wonder if Yellen will let the bubble pop if Trump wins.

[–]BlackCombos 19 points20 points  (5 children)

As someone who is only economically literate in the most loose sense of the term I tend to believe the strength of the middle class prior to the start of this century was likely the exception, not the rule. For example the interest rates being talked about above occurred in basically a 4 year period from 79-83, although interest rates from the 70s to 00s were much higher than they are now, outside of that ultra high peak something around 5-8% was more typical and further those are all treasury bond interest rates, not the more useful liquid interest rates your bank offers on savings accounts (which are so low that you can essentially wholesale discount them).

Treasury bond interest rates are so low right now because they are set by the Fed and (according to the Fed, they certainly know better than I, but I'm sure you'll get a spectrum of opinions) that is an intentional strategy to moderate the US economy, which some may argue has been working fairly well, even counting the crash in '08 the US economy has essentially become continuously more stable overall since the Fed's inception.

The bigger issue would be the loss of effective financial instruments for people in the lower and middle class, which has an outsized impact on young people (as there are proportionally fewer upper class young people, for obvious reasons). I don't think there are many people that would claim that saving 8x the median income (in 2016 dollars that would be around $400,000) should qualify you to make a stable exit from the workforce, the impacts to the total base of US labor would be catastrophic if that were the case.

A large dimension of the discussion has been moving from a resource unlimited to a resource limited economy throughout the world. Global land utilization, rare mineral utilization, various fuel utilization is relatively high as a percentage of those resources on offer, which is a decidedly new phenomena of globalization. Economic expansion is more focused on innovation than capturing resources now - for instance real estate as it pertains to land is zero sum, the only way to capture value from real estate is to make the existing land more valuable by building something there or by going and finding some land nobody owns yet. Obviously we can't do the second one any longer, but we see the same phenomena happening with things like oil, where there aren't massive cheap oil deposits being stumbled upon anymore.

A lot of the "easy" innovation to capture has been captured, the next step (in my, again, economically stupid by a lot of people's measure, head) is to leverage the global workforce via improved skilled labor participation. We have 7 billion people on Earth and only a tiny fraction of them are involved in fields where their brain is what qualifies them (as opposed to their physical labor). A lot of the technological explosion over the last century could be cast in the light of the population explosion over same, and improved communication providing a better "social network" of intelligence to apply to problems. Computational tools continue that fight but until the Nerd Rapture (aka singularity) hits we will need to continue to feed the economy - on some fundamental level, with raw human grey matter.

Edit: to kind of head of what some people are saying here, I don't really think we should be laying this at the feet of the older generations. Some of the issues that have arisen from the modern economic alignment would have taken a crystal ball to predict, and although the 40+ voting block is still massive and strong, it is hard to complain when the 18-39 voting block barely ever shows up to the polls or produces attractive political thinkers.

And free trade is a touchy subject - yes it hurts the US economy, but it is a massive boon to the global economy, which ends up raising QoL back in the US (our lives would be shittier if there was no free trade, but life in other countries would be comparatively much much shittier) so come down on that issue where you will.

[–]Shanguerrilla 4 points5 points  (1 child)

I really think you laid that out great, expounded well on some important points and offered what I think a big key to the cause and solution. The only way I differ from your brief exposition, is I think the FED is near criminally inept.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (3 children)

Probably "The Greatest Depression".

If you look at the amount of debt today. People focus on public debt which is catastrophic enough in most developed economies, but the private debt is all far more severe. You also have to consider the dodgy financial instruments or derivatives that might number $10 or $100 to every $1 of debt. That's why subprime crashed the economy. Everyone looked at the bad sub prime and was preparing for a $200 billion loss but in reality there were $6 of derivatives for every $1 of bad debt. So it ended up being a $1.2 trillion crisis.

Just Deutsche bank has more derivatives on its books than the GDP of the entire global economy.

So you have all this bad debt - the central banks started printing money and slashed interest rates. Most of this money they created went into speculation and driving up asset prices and share buy backs. The central banks can't stop because if they didn't prop asset prices up then a lot of what the banks have on their balance sheets would be worth pennies on the dollar.

With this level of debt, putting interest rates up would be catastrophic because repayments at these interest rates are just about possible. What happens when interest rates go up to 20%? Mass default. Which would lead to debt deflation.

Another thing that also accompanied the great depression was productivity shock. Enormous amounts of labour had been automated in the 20 years before the great depression. Especially in agriculture. Its no wonder there was severe unemployment during the depression. Now we are going to see a lot of jobs automated by robots over the next 20 years.

[–]absoluteskeptic 15 points16 points  (3 children)

people could get 10-16% interest in the 1980's with some people briefly getting 19%

It was a 10 year period where rates were above 8%, and a 3 year period where they were above 12%. BTW, those rates weren't a good thing. They indicated the economy was in turmoil, and there was a lot of uncertainty.

The difference today is people have accepted low rates. It's fairly easy to move to an online bank with better rates, if more people did that then banks would be forced to raise rates, rinse and repeat. The only problem is people are lazy and have multiple accounts at one institution (broker, mortgage, credit card, bank account, 401k), so most accept the low rates because of the ATM network and other such nonsense. Add in low Fed interest rates and QE. It's great for borrowers, if you can borrow.

Lots of little things are either free or so cheap, it may as well be. Electronics. My 4th grade teacher showed off his $350 calculator (today it would cost $1000). You can buy one at the dollar store ($1) or it comes free with a phone. Air conditioning. Equipment and running costs have come down so much. It's helped (really, the main reason) for the South and West to get such migration from the East and Midwest. Every car has it, every home has it. Clothes. My mom would make her own clothes (as did many), it was really expensive to were nice fashions. Today, I don't know of anyone who knows how to sew. People buy clothes to last a few months, not several years or more. In addition, clothes materials are quality are much better today. Food is basically the same price, but the shopping experience is completely different. Fresh Veggies available year round, three times the variety, too. Home delivery and can order by the internet. Can get through the check out in less than 5 minutes (it took up to 20 minutes back then, price checks, no bar codes). Can't pay with cash? You need to have an approved account with the supermarket to use your personal checks. Convenience stores open 24 hours, supermarkets open 24 hours, ATMs open 24 hours, automatic bridge/toll systems for drivers. Computers and electric keyboards, plus dead cheap cameras: you could make a movie by yourself cheaper and better quality than what was often made in 1979. You can now record and album for almost free at home. Free long distance phone calls (used to cost $3 a minute for my dad, $10 in today's money). A incredibly safe and reliable car can be had for $15,000 today with much higher quality and about the same cost.

The list goes on, but nobody today thinks of spending nearly $1,000 on a calculator. People vacation in Hawaii or Mexico, not the campsite 5 hours from home (unless you are into camping). The big craze today is PokemonGo, an augmented reality smartphone game that connects you with cloud servers, Japanese inspired animation, businesses doing advertising, social networks, and the NSA (a person in the 70's would have no idea what that sentence meant, it may as well not been in English). In the 70's the big craze was the pet rock. 'Nough said.

[–]BioshockBrah 44 points45 points  (60 children)

Basically, the Millennial generation is fucked.

I'm 30 and I live at home. I make 10/h. Almost done getting my AS in Accounting, although that will probably be worthless in the job market.

Literally every day, I'm depressed and in the back of my mind, suicide is there. At some point, life just won't be worth living in comparison how my parents lived back in the day.

[–]Johndoesmith67 23 points24 points  (23 children)

Cooler heads have always prevailed. Suicide is never the answer. Coming from a 21 year old working for corporate electric. Find away to make bank as an accountant. Become a CPA, do taxes on a consulting basis so you pay yourself first.

[–]BioshockBrah 17 points18 points  (19 children)

To become a CPA, you need a Bachelors, then a Masters, then you can take the CPA exam to get your CPA. I'm not that smart to be honest.

[–]MustBeNice 8 points9 points  (4 children)

Just wanted to say good for you man. It's never too late to go back to college. You're already halfway to getting your bachelor's degree & from there you'll be able to re-enter the workforce to make twice what you're making now. Then from there it's merely another 2 years for your master's. Don't sell yourself short, I just graduated from a very respectable university in California, and tbh, a lot of my community college classes were just as difficult as the university ones.

30 is the new 20, and pretty soon you'll be on your way up and out

[–]Ifuckinglovepron 18 points19 points  (1 child)

There needs to be an economic correction. It is inevitable. That which goes on forever will eventually stop.

I really hate to break it to you, but we are in the correction period. The 1950's through the 1980's was the fluke. It is all going back to the normal of human history now.

[–]dabrah1 5 points6 points  (0 children)

This should be upvoted more. The US economy was so great from the 1950s to the 1990s because the rest of the world basically had to rebuild its infrastructure and economic systems after world war 2. We had virtually no competition. Things are indeed back to where they should be, and where there going to stay.

[–]ronsoness 3 points4 points  (2 children)

nice reply. the stats are all about economic changes. many developed countries are having the same issues with decreased home ownership, the need for dual incomes, and more underemployment or longer work hours. i read on cnn that british millenials will be the first generation to make less lifetime earnings than parents.

also, i want to add that investment advice from older people who enjoyed better growth of the market and high interest savings % can't simply be applied to the current economy. i keep seeing retirement advice based on a historic average 15%/year growth as if the market will grow ad infinitum.

finally, damn i wish i could live with my parents. been on my own since 18. if i put all that rent money in retirement, i'd be done with it already.

[–]aDAMNPATRIOT 4 points5 points  (2 children)

You know that money loses 75% of its value every 20 years right...

[–][deleted]  (202 children)

[removed]

[–]Endorsed ContributorrebuildingMyself 186 points187 points  (52 children)

Don't forget foreign investors buying up property everywhere (and not even living in them) which artificially inflates the prices for people that want a fucking roof over their heads that they actually own.

[–]Squeezymypenisy 90 points91 points  (27 children)

Goddamn that was the stupidest fucking thing. I understand ownership and like it, but a lot of the Chinese ones are doing it to hide their money or just keep it somewhere.

[–]perdill 42 points43 points  (15 children)

Laws just changed making it harder for the chinese to invest in foreign real estate. Lots of people are expecting price correction in Canada, specifically vancouver and the GTA because of it. Occupancy rates are lowish and prices are appreciating literally month over month

[–]Squeezymypenisy 16 points17 points  (2 children)

That's great, my hope is this starts a new trend with cities doing this.

[–]wax_idiotic 8 points9 points  (1 child)

Agreed. It's prevalent in Los Angeles too.

[–]TorboLeto 3 points4 points  (4 children)

So later, rather than now, be a better time to buy?

[–]perdill 7 points8 points  (3 children)

It's pure speculation what this will mean for the market. Right now, the housing market in the GTA and Vancouver is insanely heated. Multiple offers on everything, everything going for more than it was just months ago.

A townhome sold in April for 525K and relisted and sold last week at 610K in 48 hours. This is not uncommon at all - depending on how you look at things, by not jumping into the market, you're losing money.

In my opinion, there's not going to be a massive correction, most people aren't even aware this change has happened yet. Personally, I think there's going to be a slow down before the fall and a terribly slow winter, but I don't think it's going to be nearly as bad as some are predicting.

[–][deleted] 29 points30 points  (5 children)

Which is bullshit considering you couldn't buy property in China unless you were a Chinese national for decades. It's ridiculous that the average home price in Vancouver is $1 million plus when the average salary is $40,000.

[–]perdill 18 points19 points  (1 child)

Last year something around 70% of all homes listed for sale in West Vancouver were bought by chinese.

The issue really is when they don't rent the place out - that's pretty fucking ridiculous. Tax increases are being proposed (may have passed already) for homes that aren't lived in or rented out.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Interesting. I visited Vancouver recently and I did notice a good amount of wealthy asians...

[–]Expectations1 6 points7 points  (1 child)

A one bedroom with a carspace 8km from Sydney CBD is about 600 to 650k now...

[–]B_Campbell 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I think this is one of the negative aspects of income inequality too. Dumb money looking for somewhere to go drives up things like housing and commodities for people trying to live.

[–]1FunAndFreedom 39 points40 points  (13 children)

Outside of a few key markets, Chinese aren't buying at a rate that effects the country's aggregate price levels. They are scape goats for a nationwide problem.

The main reason property values are inflating is demographical. White people and asians do not want to live in multicultural areas and they don't want their kids going to schools rated below an 8/10 on greatschools.org.

This sucks, it's not fair, but when you look at buying patterns this is undoubtably the case. In my market if you took identical houses separated by less than 4 miles, the house with the good school system and low diversity would be nearly double the price of the house with a bad school.

The reason is pure supply and demand:

Imagine you have an area with 10 school districts and all 10 of them are homogenous and similar quality (think Midwest up until recently). Prices would be deflated because there isn't a strong reason to buy in one area versus another. Maybe the more convenient locations sell at a premium but nothing crazy like we see now. Now imagine the demographics shift and now half the schools have minority populations and their ratings on greatschools.org are subpar. You have effectively cut the supply of houses that white people are willing to buy without any reduction in demand.

The introduction of multiculturalism creates a bidding war among parents who are sensitive to school quality. Typical school conscious parents will pay up to the maximum allowed by their bank for a property (~32%-38% of their income). This creates de-facto segregation, but since you can't hang up a "whites only" sign, mortgage walls go up to keep the undesirables out. It's not that the parents want to put themselves in a high debt situation, it's just that the only choice is to take on a lot of debt or let their kids suffer in bad schools.

If multiculturalism is the gun powder for run away housing prices, the "spark" is the low interest rates. When people can borrow at 3.5% interest rates the buying power of a family with two people earning 120k combined is over $800,000 (est). At more historical interest rates of 6.5% their buying power falls to $580,000 (est).

So the government needs to keep pumping cheap money into our economy to maintain housing values. The moment interest rates go up the buying power of all the people in the market will decline. From the 1980's to the mid 2000's interest rates went from 18% to 3.5%. Without this, housing prices could never have gone so crazy.

Do you see the trap the public has been put in? If we make housing more affordable then millions of people lose their entire net worth, houses go into foreclosure, liquidity dries up. If we let housing prices become more expensive then the future generations need to accept lower quality of living.

Only a few outs for the government mathematically at this point:

1) Let interest rates go up. Boomers and Gen X'ers lose their retirements.

2) Keep everything the same. No appreciation and the housing market is ripe for a collapse if any event interferes with nationwide liquidity.

3) Reintroduce 40 and 50 year mortgages. Keep lowering interest rates. At 2.5% interest rates on a 50 year mortgage the 120k family can now bid prices of the same houses up to $1,010,000.

Now the problem is averted for 10-15 years and the next generation has to deal with the eventual housing crash. Low interest rates mean retiring seniors need to keep throwing their savings into the stock market which most of DC and Wall Street wants to see happening.

4) Income rises for Americans. Super unlikely with the amount of cheap labor that has flooded the market.

Not trying to be a doomsayer, just that housing unaffordability isn't due to the Chinese as is commonly stated. The same situation is playing out in Sweden where housing prices in safe areas exploded after they accepted millions of Muslim migrants. Safe areas now sell at a high premium and same as here, families are getting into massive debt to protect their kids.

[–]perdill 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Chinese investors were responsible for 11 Billion of the 63 Billion in real estate sales in Ontario last year - more than enough to inflate sales price, especially when they have no problem paying much higher than list.

[–]jackandjill22 6 points7 points  (1 child)

They're never raising interest-rates; especially not after the BREXIT. With the uncertainty in the markets, in fact institutions are probably using as an excuse to maintain their low state.

[–]1FunAndFreedom 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I agree that the government is going to do everything in its power to keep interest rates low. The fed especially is going to flood the market with cheap money as long as they possibly can.

But the problem is that the pain always occurs when interest rates go up. So if rates are reduced to 2.0% or 2.5% to encourage housing appreciation, the prices will normalize with income in a 10-15 year period. Then what can be done to increase housing prices?

Go to 1% interest rates? Make 50 year and interest only mortgages the norm?

At some point the wheels fall off the wagon. The bond market and secondary market begin to demand a greater return on their money. At that point the interest rates have to increase unless the fed wants to risk losing trust in the currency. When that happens it won't be pretty for a lot of people.

[–]ryno55 1 point2 points  (1 child)

How do high interest rates move money into the stock market? You would see the opposite, money moving out of the stock market and back into bonds and savings to get the high yields. The government should not be price fixing money in the first place.

[–]1FunAndFreedom 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You read it backwards, I stated that a decrease in interest rates would force more personal savings to be invested into securities.

[–]PlanB_pedofile 18 points19 points  (0 children)

That's just opening the homes up for squatters.

I remember stories of foreclosed homes sitting on the market for over a year and when the realator came to sell, he discovered some family of 5 living in the house. Then comes the months of eviction and court to get them out. Some rare cases the squaters won, getting a free house! Something about squaters rights.

[–][deleted] 74 points75 points  (26 children)

Now now, Gen X has been getting rightly fucked over a barrel by the 'Boomers too, son. You guys got it worse, but there was no cheap college, 4x median income housing, union jobs out of high school for us either.

Ever notice how all the songs on the radio at Christmas are from the '40s and '50s? We're all getting to relive the 'Boomer's nostalgic childhood every year. It's their world - we just live in it.

[–]SmokeyMcBlunt 47 points48 points  (2 children)

to be fair the new christmas songs are just shit.

[–]MuleJuiceMcQuaid 13 points14 points  (1 child)

The last memorable Christmas song was from WHAM!.

[–]Docbear64 12 points13 points  (0 children)

"Last Christmas
I gave you my heart
But the very next day ,you gave it away
This year
To save me from tears
I'll give it to someone special

Definitely one of my favorite christmas songs to blast .

[–]southernmost 20 points21 points  (5 children)

But the main thing is this: there have never been enough of us Gen X to do anything significant politically because there are just SO GODDAMN MANY boomers and they are neither retiring nor dying as fast as they need to.

[–]NormanoSilurian 28 points29 points  (9 children)

Correct. Gen X has been fucked by the Boomer scum too.

Baby-boomer's selfishness, irresponsibility, lack of patriotism, and pathological narcissism is truly impressive - Dr Spock has a lot to answer for.

[–]disposable_me_0001 29 points30 points  (4 children)

the worst part is that boomers are more or less ignorant of the situation. They think today's kids are lazy. They should just go out and get any job. They think min wage can support a family of 4 still.

[–]199639 18 points19 points  (3 children)

A boomer told me he worked in the summer at minimum wage and earned enough to pay for med school tuition and all costs for his whole year of school. I looked up what tuition was back then. $600 per year. Now its $48,000. Wages only went up slightly since then. Boomers don't realize how drastically they fucked us.

[–]1Goomich 10 points11 points  (0 children)

And for that 48k you can learn how white priviledge is working for you and then get accused for rape.

[–]Way_Of_Man 62 points63 points  (21 children)

Jobs are available a-plenty. Problem is the wages for some of them aren't where they need to be. And I'm not talking about the McDonald's 15/hr type situation. I've seen jobs advertise for less pay than that, but ask for a Bachelor's Degree or experience in one of the trades.

Wage wise, I've worked mainly in either admin or tech support on the lower end. I make a dollar fifty an hour more than I did 12 years ago. Gas is double. Housing prices have tripled since then. Education has gone up thousands of percentile since the 70s.

This is why I spend all of my free time on building my online businesses and learning marketing, coding etc. I feel like the direction of the US is heading to a place where if you're not Killin it, then you're probably poor.

[–]Harlenrow 24 points25 points  (7 children)

That's exactly what a lot of experts are saying. The middle class is going to merge into the lower class.

[–]RedDeadCred 11 points12 points  (6 children)

That's the world of socialism. A percent of wealthy people and an entirety of poor people.

[–]Philhelm 3 points4 points  (1 child)

If they push too far, hopefully it might be a percent of dead people and an entirety of poor people.

[–]1StoicCrane 4 points5 points  (0 children)

When the gap between the rich and poor become too steep revolutions happen.

[–][deleted] 19 points20 points  (3 children)

where I live, entry level work pays around 15-18 an hour with a degree in the bio field. Some even pay lower. Almost all have an introductory period where you get no benefits and can be fired at will within a 3 month time span. The situation is really bad right now imo.

[–]1FunAndFreedom 4 points5 points  (2 children)

Are you in DC/NYC/Bay area/Seattle/other major market? If not, wages are going to be very low for those types of fields. But in the major areas I'm seeing 100k-130k incomes for young people regularly.

The non-business owning young people who are doing very well right now are in those major markets and generally in either IT, Engineering, or Medicine. The young people who are doing "pretty well" are the skilled tradesmen or working in government.

The young people that try to attach themselves to a company that doesn't meet those criteria are not doing well. They are earning 30-40k a year and sharing a flat with friends.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (1 child)

no im not, but those wages arent enough for the costs just the same. You can kind of survive with lower rent, but with student loan debt among other things, you're most definitely not coming out ahead and saving a great deal. I mean it's all proportional

[–]clearsmoke 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Im going down a similar path. Thanks for your comment.

[–]cynicalsimon 3 points4 points  (3 children)

McDonald's 15/hr type situation

that's on the higher end of the wage. here in Canada, were still at 11.25/hr in Ontario and that's shit. what's worse is 11.25/hr, is not as low as it gets and 11.25/hr is basically slave labor..

[–]jackandjill22 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That's right, "junk-jobs" & "high-flyers". That's the name of the game.

[–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor 34 points35 points  (2 children)

Come now, this is TRP. Let's stay on point here--it's entirely the fault of women.

Yeah, let that shake around in the cage for a second there.

But seriously, it's true. Allow me to illuminate, as my father did for me on this very topic. A couple decades ago I got my first e-staff spot, though this was back before the wild run-away MBA fueled idiot-tier salaries we hand out now. Nevertheless, in cash alone I took in about three times what my father did, who owned his own business (and a pretty substantial medium sized business, not some VHS rental place or something). My father owned his own home outright. He had several cars. He had a retirement war chest. He had pieced together a textbook 50’s beta-male WIN lifestyle.

I, on the other hand, could never get ahead. Not when I was making $20k a year. Not when I was making when he said that to me. It seemed like no matter what I did, I never could make enough money. My father was pretty quick to point out the cause, “you [kids] buy mountains of shit you don’t need.” Yup. Mountains of shit we don’t need. How many fucking sets of cookware do you need? Enough that at least one of them you’ll never see used. At Disneyland? Buy the kids those $15 Mickey Mouse heads that come with popcorn in it, just so you can throw away the beheaded mouse skull into the garbage when you get home, because you don’t know where to put it.

It wasn’t until I started hiding my income increases did the need to increase spending slowed down. And I’m lucky. My wife grew up dirt poor. She had relatively low expectations from the start. Women will expand their needs to fit the available resources and then push beyond. That last part is the important part. If uncontrolled, women will STRAIN your ability to provide resources—there is never equilibrium. My father was a classic blue-beta masculine male; he had boundaries and enforced them. My mother obeyed those boundaries. Me? Yeah, I was like the rest of the Gen-X mooks. If we didn’t provide the shrill harpy her desires, we were marked losers and expected to take shit from our wives and her peers for it.

Then I woke up. “Sorry, no bonus this quarter, dear. Tough financial environment.” And see, even that is a sad state of affairs. I started my RP journey by hiding and slinking in the shadows, instead of asserting my prerogatives. But we do what we can do when we can do them, right?

You may not feel like you have a lot, but compare your lifestyle to the typical middle class family in the 1950s. Start with the fact they had no idea what a fucking cell phone does nor why you need to spend three days in the hospital getting tests by unrecognizable machines when your little darling falls off a bike and hits his head. Our materialism is a fucking abomination. Our expectations have gone off the charts and men are doing nothing to constrain them. We are throwing money at our problem. We are throwing DEBT at our problems. We are accumulating piles of foreign made shit. This is not how it was five decades ago; in fact, we were on the other side of that equation.

You can complain about income inequality all you want, but the vast majority of wealth held by the 2% and up is funny unicorn paper. They don’t consume but a tiny, itty, teeny fraction of resources and economic activity, unlike the rest of the people do. If they were to even try, say by handing out piles of funny money so average people can consume more, inflation would explode. You have to understand this fundamental truth—paper money and economic activity are only locked as far as economic activity can support the paper. Just wishing you can hand out paper money and everyone can be prosperous is delusional and stupid.

So, yes. We would all love to be able to throw money at our problems (aka women) and live a happy carefree life. That’s just not how it works. Instead, as hard men, you should focus on what you need while striving to raise yourself. Don’t waste. Don’t chase fancy things. Live good. Spend money for things that meet your goals (yes, sometimes it will be frivolous). You’ll get where you want to be.

Ok, so I suppose it is really our fault. We are men. We let this happen. This takes me to the sad ending of my story. After my father retired, he basically let my mother take over their life planning. It took five years to tear through savings accounts and equity in their nice home. My father spent his final years in a smaller house with a wife that constantly bitched she couldn’t go to Europe twice a year any more—despite having NEVER been there until a decade before. He lost control and she ran off a cliff. It always ends the same way.

[–]TheRedThrowAwayPill 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Can't believe I had to scroll down this far for this comment.

[–]yomo86 5 points6 points  (0 children)

"Shit you do not need" the way to go. A house clocked at 250k. Do I really need it? No, just wait till the next crash is around the corner. Buy shit once in your life. I am an avid cook so I used to have a lot of high end teflon and ceramic frying pans ending up spending more than $150 on pans a year but now I exclusivly use the hand made iron pans which last forever.

Same goes for cars the $ 1000 used Toyota from an old person will take me everywhere and is still running without a problem at 200k miles. People forgot the basics of economics.

I am a lawyer. My former firms never wanted to pay more than 150k (5 yrs exp. in a strange field of law) because, you know, business is tough son; as soon as I let it slip that one of my collegues and I are willing to leave and hang our own shingle on the door their tune changed suddenly.

Long story short: the economy is fucked but the guys and girls out there are pampered, entitled, whiney I-want-to-have-it-all-plus-social-security humans and now they have access to easy credit.

[–]aanarchist 27 points28 points  (7 children)

no to mention 12 hour work days 6 days a week isn't exactly something someone can consider as more successful than chilling in the basement. why the fuck would anyone willingly be a wage slave when they can just play world of warcraft and watch porn.

[–]Squeezymypenisy 11 points12 points  (8 children)

It might go back to how things used to be. Parents living with parents.

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (7 children)

Good luck finding a girl that wants to live with husband's parents indefinitely.

[–]Vasallo7G 20 points21 points  (0 children)

There would be plenty, once the Fed can not longer hold their shit.

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (1 child)

I mean, if that becomes the reality, things will change in a cultural sense. It worked before, it can work again etc

[–]1whatsazipper 4 points5 points  (0 children)

It'll happen, but there's definitely going to be hostility between the different 'castes' forming amid this economic stratification.

[–]Rufferto_n_Groo 4 points5 points  (2 children)

We took the opposite approach. I bought an old farm, built on it, then had both sets of parents move on and they built on it, sharing capital costs and improvement.

When they pass on, the transfer is relatively easy due to the legal structures we used, and the houses will still be rentals.

My children can choose to rent and receive the business assets over time, but in the old school sense, not this split everything up attitude of fairness that Americans have.

So, rather than be hopeless, do some financial engineering and go multigenerational.

That's tough to do in the "me me me" world of boomers these days, but it's better than nothing.

[–]HEADPOCKET 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Not to mention that rent is so damn high it retards saving.

The baby boomers have done everything in their power through government to prevent asset prices from going down.. pumping up bubbles everywhere that are good for them and their retirement portfolios but terrible for young people who have been priced out of homes, stocks, etc.

[–]decrepitandcold 29 points30 points  (8 children)

26 here from NY, been back in my parents house since I graduated college & was getting ready to move out but why pay less for more? It's not like I freeload - I pay "rent" & my bills, buy my own groceries and do ALL the chores & yardwork. I like having a backyard, a spot to park my car, can have people over whenever I want and I have sex whenever I want to. The only downside is when girls decide to be obnoxiously loud but if my mom wants grandchildren and a happy son, she'll continue to mind her business.

[–]Merica911 7 points8 points  (4 children)

Living at home will work for you while still in your mid 20s but it will get different with the girl situation when hitting 30s.

Once the girls get fucked by Chad, all around the house, loud as fuck, on top of the kitchen table at the middle of the day, when resorting back to you trying to be extra quite so you don't wake up Pops, it's not gonna work for these girls anymore like how it worked in your 20s.

I'm not dissing you, just letting you know don't get to comfortable as years go on. The girls that fuck you in your 20s that fuck you in your 30s will have different intention.

[–]MyLittleAtomBomb 44 points45 points  (21 children)

Yeah well that's what you fucking get when you purposefully neuter an entire fucking generation of men under the guise of progressiveness. Add that to the immense selfishness of the prior generations, mix in a little female sexual liberation and make sure only the top men have any sort of sexual motivation, and bam. 2016.

Make sure your investment portfolio has holdings in virtual reality dating simulators and dildos cause this entire generation of kiddies is fucked beyond all recovery.

[–]LasherDeviance 21 points22 points  (20 children)

Don't forget about flooding the country with illegal workers, who drive down wages.

[–]Harlenrow 16 points17 points  (7 children)

Nah, corporate greed drives down wages.

[–][deleted]  (5 children)

[deleted]

    [–]Tman5691 6 points7 points  (0 children)

    Give it 10 years and it'll go from "immigrants stealing our jobs" to "machines/robots stealing our jobs".

    Just look at that Adidas automated factory in Germany, they get a gold sticker for not using child labor in the far east, but at the same time they save even more money by having even fewer workers!

    That's the job market future. There will be very few basic labor jobs, and the few that are required will be either because machines aren't flexible enough to account for customer needs (think mid-higher end catering etc) or they want a friendly public front(aka eye candy receptionist).

    [–][deleted] 21 points22 points  (10 children)

    That's why liberals hate Donald Trump. He knows that this is the reason for actual Americans losing jobs and not being able to afford things. It's just not "politically correct" to say that.

    [–]bitregister 6 points7 points  (8 children)

    Looking for this comment. Trump is all about jobs, it trumps everything else. He is exactly right about the rich globalists demolishing the middle class.

    [–][deleted]  (55 children)

    [deleted]

    [–][deleted]  (32 children)

    [deleted]

      [–][deleted] 36 points37 points  (3 children)

      Being poor exposes you to all kinds of shit.

      Muslim rapefugees getting moved right next to your place? Tough luck, you got no cash to move away.

      Muslim rapefugees wanting to start a new caliphate? Tough luck, you'll have to fight them in a civil war as your traiterous government doesn't give a fuck.

      History is full of poor young peasant men that lived a short, uneventful life.

      I'm rather in prison than living like a peasant but that's just me.

      [–][deleted]  (2 children)

      [deleted]

        [–][deleted] 17 points18 points  (11 children)

        100 a week in social welfare. Do you not understand that your existence is a net negative for your countrymen? That they would be better off without you? Doesn't this fucking bother you?

        [–][deleted]  (1 child)

        [removed]

          [–]attemptist 8 points9 points  (7 children)

          Don't get me wrong, I'm not a proponent of checking out, but isn't the idea around here that society has failed us as men and we don't owe it shit until it cleans up its act?

          [–][deleted]  (1 child)

          [removed]

            [–]attemptist 13 points14 points  (0 children)

            I have kids, two out of three being boys, so I am invested in improving things (honestly, I don't think it is achievable without a collapse and reset).

            But I don't think the idea that we should "man up" and feed the current system is going to change a damn thing. Maybe prolong the decline.

            I've never taken welfare - not even when I was laid off shortly after my divorce, laden with all the debts she ran up and none of the assets I earned, living with my parents and being chased by debt collectors (I worked my ass off and paid everything back alone). I don't think it's the best option for guys to check out. Things are bad, but if you have the information that is shared here, you can avoid the traps and win.

            But I fail to see the connection between propping up this system with participation and changing it. I've seen how it'll repay you after your years of service. Let it fucking burn.

            [–]ryno55 4 points5 points  (1 child)

            You feed off of other people's taxes, pay your mom a pittance of rent, spend your time growing a garden, and nurse kids like a woman!

            [–]grewapair 31 points32 points  (7 children)

            I know lots of good looking losers who got married. Looks count way more than money.

            [–][deleted]  (2 children)

            [deleted]

              [–][deleted] 29 points30 points  (0 children)

              They got duped, son, DUPED

              [–]HeatseekingLogicBomb 4 points5 points  (1 child)

              It really depends on all the variables. We can't be intellectually honest if we don't address those. It's like the wage gap myth. There are plenty of factors that go in to the equation for both sides. Do they have kids? Marital status? Relationship history? Looks? Salary?

              If it's a shit job, and they (men) are good looking, it balances out. If men are average looking and have a great job, it balances out. It's always a combination.

              [–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

              [deleted]

              What is this?

              [–]Squeezymypenisy 86 points87 points  (11 children)

              I'll bite. I live at home currently. I'm in my mid twenties. However this is purely just to be cheap. I even live in a cheap area. No northeast or westcoast high prices for me. I'm saving up for my own house and I'll be going to professional school soon. Most young men I know that live at home also live for financial reasons and to save money. Women can't do this because them having a slutty lifestyle is usually not compatible with parents. Its easy for guys though, my parents let me come and go as I please (the only stipulation was I needed a plan and a temporary job). When I want to fuck a girl I just go to her place, and rarely to my parents. I have not had many problems with dating. Girls in my area don't seem to care and I get plenty of pussy.

              [–]jackandjill22 30 points31 points  (10 children)

              Girls don't question why you're always leaving to their house, because the majority I talk to prefer to get screwed away from where they stay especially when they're younger.

              [–]Squeezymypenisy 31 points32 points  (9 children)

              I usually just tell them I live at home. I give them the gap year argument and sometimes I lie and give them a fun story. Every once in awhile a girl gets turned off by it, but there are so many women here that I just say next and move on. 5 universities in my area also make it great. Including one that is over 50% girls.

              [–]ScarletNumbers 30 points31 points  (5 children)

              Aren't most universities over 50% girls?

              [–]Squeezymypenisy 16 points17 points  (2 children)

              Yep, but this particular one is mostly upper middle class sorority girls. Its TCU. And there aren't enough men for them.

              [–]RedSugarPill 10 points11 points  (1 child)

              I hear lots of girls at TCU have serious daddy issues. Would love to troll for some T&A around that area ;)

              [–]Squeezymypenisy 14 points15 points  (0 children)

              You are correct. Either the dads are in business or they didn't want to come home to vapid wives. It's awesome, you should definitely visit fort worth.

              [–]maxbrooksmacbook 5 points6 points  (0 children)

              When I went to Miami it was like 65% women as incoming freshmen

              [–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (2 children)

              the situation is so common now is the thing. It might shift a bit depending on where you live and the attitudes therein, but for the most part people ARE adapting. Some of the hottest chicks ive fucked were when I was living at home in my mid 20s, and not one of them gave a shit. People really overstate the problem in my honest opinion

              [–]Squeezymypenisy 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              Definitely in my experience

              [–]j4c0p 49 points50 points  (11 children)

              I would rather pay a monthly rent for room with flatmates to stay psychically sane than staying home with constant bullshitting.

              Lot of guys willingly choose not to, due to some shitty inteligent arguments about saving little money.

              It is worth to spend $ to live alone.

              Quick comparison.
              I found new job in another city and immediately moved there.
              vs
              Friend found job in his hometown , stayed home with parents.

              Everytime we meet for a beer , you can see the dead eyes and exhaustion from everyday contact with same people (His parents and younger brother). The depression is real.

              [–][deleted] 32 points33 points  (2 children)

              Yeah, parents are becoming more grumpy and annoying as they get older. Also "when I was your age" stories intensify.

              [–]Lambkin1 8 points9 points  (0 children)

              To be fair, parents have pretty much been this way from generation to generation.

              [–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (1 child)

              this is highly dependent on what your parents are like though. Some people have no problems with it. If anything, most of the depression comes from worrying about what others think I find.

              [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

              [deleted]

              What is this?

              [–]AlerioX 26 points27 points  (4 children)

              I am a 23 year old german and live with my parents because I had to move out of my appartment because I will move to munich in two month. I always use my parents house as a bus stop between switching from one city to another.
              My older sister (25) would never move in again because she 'needs to be independent' (= needs to get lots of alpha cock through tinder and she couldn't do this in this tiny village my parents live at + she can't be a little slut while my parents are around).

              [–]Sementeries 8 points9 points  (0 children)

              Sounds like all girls who want or are riding on the CC. Couple of girls I know have chosen to get a big house mainly because one of the girls dad owns the property than go to uni.

              [–]Marcus1138 4 points5 points  (2 children)

              My sister's the same - refuses to stay at home or room with people - needs her own apartment. You'd think it'd be the opposite with guys wanting more sexual freedom, but I guess that's cultural indoctrination talking.

              [–]1WeedDaddy 13 points14 points  (1 child)

              needs her own apartment. You'd think it'd be the opposite with guys

              Most guys are realistic of their chances and realize they don't need their own place for masturbation.

              [–]BigMan1844 10 points11 points  (2 children)

              Half the problem is that colleges don't prepare kids for the real world with any meaningful professional skills. Short of a STEM degree or something like Finance/Accounting most kids graduate and have no clue where the fuck they will go or what they will do with their degrees. I went for the liberal arts meme in school; fortunately I stumbled into a sales job and it turns out I'm good with people so I make a decent living for myself at 24.

              Furthermore most parents don't teach their kids meaningful financial skills or how to function around adults. I love my folks and they raised me well, but they didn't give me a damn bit of meaningful advice about getting by on my own-- not even about balancing a budget. The biggest lesson I ever got from them was watching them lose their pants in the housing market crash. That taught me to live below my means and put away money every month.

              [–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 11 points12 points  (2 children)

              Funnily, it is still lower for young women living at home at 29%

              Well of course. Women generally are supported by a slightly older man. So comparing both genders at the same age cutoff will skew the stats.

              [–]2Overkillengine 6 points7 points  (0 children)

              And then they get pissed when they get treated as no better than a whore....after subsidizing their finances via sex. Lulz.

              [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

              [deleted]

              What is this?

              [–]mykonos_rm 12 points13 points  (0 children)

              Here's something to consider. At 29 I went from making six figures to out of a job for reasons beyond my control. Six months later the savings dried up as I searched for comparable work to finally having to move in with my fam. Fortunately a month later I was able to find solid work and resume my old lifestyle but the dawning point is...what would have happened if the family wasn't there? Fact is the nuclear family truly is a bedrock of a solid economy since it provides a non-government based helping hand for when you truly need it. But as today's society continues to diminish reasons for a man to get married whats gonna happen to following generations when shit hits the fan? Seriously puts the western decline into focus when you sit down and think about it.

              [–]SirSubwayeisha 10 points11 points  (5 children)

              I want to move back home with my parents. I'm trying to save to buy a duplex/triplex in the next 12 months. If you let your mission/goals steer you, a bitches' opinion on your living situation means nothing.

              [–]ImagineGawds 22 points23 points  (23 children)

              Serious question. I'm a 24 year old living at home.

              What the hell can I do to earn more money and move out?

              [–]1egoisenemy 9 points10 points  (2 children)

              Track your finances, know where your money is going, realize that most material things are bullshit (unless it's for your true hobby/passion), budget, build people skills and network (life is about who you know), change careers like going into STEM or figuring out how people are making bank in your career field

              [–]LYFT_PROMO_MN123 4 points5 points  (6 children)

              move to big city, drive for uber, you might have to work 50 hours a week, but you will make 3-5 grand a montha nd that is enough to get your own studio or 1bd for 800-1400 a month

              go to used car dealership, buy used prius or sonata 2014 with 20,000 miles. put 1 grand down, go to bank ask for loan, i went to us bank, make payments once a month over 5 years, should be like 300 a month

              insurance for 6 months with rideshare added is like 800 bucks.

              work mornings, you want airport runs, like 3am- noon shifts.

              The work is there sign up, move out, go to the big city, get a place, work all the time, I make a grand or two a week driving for uber, i am 25, have my own place in MPLS, have 5 figures ina vanguard index fund and a 2013 sonata limited paid off, was just 3 years ago Iwas living at home.

              SIGN UP FOR UBER AND LYFT, move to thriving white part of town just outisde of city, mine is uptown, but every city has a trendy area right next to downtown where all the rich hang, move there, or close to. Go to the money.

              Edit: I have no college degree, and got a drug felony at 19(for weed, expunged now so I have a clean record now), was working at liquor store making 9 bucks an hour when I was 22, now 25, if I can do it, ANYBODY can, unless you have a DUI, lol Uber won't take you.

              [–]gjarreau 1 point2 points  (4 children)

              What do you do now? You can have room mates but if you want to earn more money, you may need to do something different. I'm in IT and I wish I had gotten into real estate when I was your age. Seems like there is no ceiling in that market.

              [–]ImagineGawds 3 points4 points  (2 children)

              right now I'm a Jr web developer for a marketing agency but I've started buying and selling things on ebay for a little extra cash flow.

              When you say get into real estate you mean flipping houses?

              [–]AnindoorcatBot 38 points39 points  (6 children)

              If I didn't have an amazing DINK (Dual income no kids) couple that basically adopted me and let me live in their mega house. I'd be living at home (already moved back once when I got laid off), or on a friends couch.

              I still don't have anything of value besides a car & a drum set, bank acct gets wiped out every week for one thing or another. And I'm gainfully employed, I can't fathom being able to save enough money for a down payment on a HOUSE. I got 3 years till 30, don't see it getting any better then.

              First post here, been around for a while. Hi.

              [–]IIIbrohonestlyIII 21 points22 points  (1 child)

              DINKs are second only to DILDOs. Dual Income Little Dog Owners.

              [–]i_forget_my_userids 42 points43 points  (1 child)

              You basically live with your parents.

              [–]Copenhagen23 9 points10 points  (2 children)

              just turned 31 and living at home. went to university for 2 years and dropped out. drank, partied, got hooked on drugs, and wasted ages 18-25. luckily my family tried to help me and I ended up going to trade school to be an electrician. I'm 6 months away from getting my e2. I have about $15k in total debt. my plan is to consolidate my debt, get my license, and save to hopefully move out before 32. any other royal fuck ups here getting their shit together later in life?

              [–]aznredpill 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              3 years homeless, 29 yo, finally finishing my environmental engineering degree at a strong state school.

              Life isn't a sprint. it's a rollercoaster.

              You got this homie.

              [–][deleted]  (13 children)

              [deleted]

              [–]drew967 22 points23 points  (0 children)

              I feel your pain. If everyone's parents acted like asian parents, there would be no one living with their parents.

              [–][deleted] 20 points21 points  (5 children)

              I got the opposite. Financially irresponsible black parents. If I kept living with them I guarantee they would start charging me rent that costs as much as an apartment. Hell, they actually did for the 2 weeks I lived there after getting a job.

              [–]BlueFairyPainter 4 points5 points  (0 children)

              If I get a cold, they'd nurse my body as well as they can so I can go to school asap. At the same time, they blame me for staying up late (sometimes for school work!), going out to have fun with friends even during the day, saying it's physically exhausting for my body and there are all kinds of germs outside, for not eating all kinds of veggies (you can never eat enough because this is clearly just an excuse), and give me hour-long talks about how I should have listened to them. Sure, if I listen to you, I will never catch a single cold. Suuuuuure.

              I'm 17 and looking for a room in another city. I can't take another second of this.

              [–]Theotropho 10 points11 points  (0 children)

              it's okay, Hillary is marching us off to war with Russia and that'll thin the herd a bit.

              [–]SW9876 22 points23 points  (7 children)

              18-34 is a weird range. If someone is still living with their parents when they're 34 that's awful. But why would you hold it against an 18 year old to still be living with their parents?

              [–]OrpheusV 16 points17 points  (6 children)

              Living at home while going to college, while a very pragmatic option/moneysaver, kinda kills your social life a bit.

              I personally regret not going to the gym as much as I should have more than living at home.

              [–]SW9876 1 point2 points  (3 children)

              I'd go further than calling it pragmatic. Or argue paying for your own place near home is a complete waste. Although, it's not a terrible idea if you rent a place off campus with some friends that you use for school but requires a year long lease.

              [–]jackandjill22 2 points3 points  (2 children)

              Roommates are unbelievably unreliable. Gonna be honest here. Had roommates when I was 19-21 through university; worst experiences of my life hardened/toughened me up quickly- Afterward by maneuvering family politics through a hostile takeover I de-facto took possession of one of many pieces of property that my family owns.

              Wish I had the balls to have done it sooner:

              cutoff some relationships that weren't doing any good now that house serves as a place of operations for my business. Don't have to pay rent but have my own place. They fork over money for maintenance & upkeep.

              Personally find that destroying others through self-motivation causes greater success than attempting to cooperate when eveyone's intentions & motivations are different.

              You can't trust people better to be a predator, then you're what everyone else's paranoid of rather than constantly being paranoid of others

              [–]trpthroway123 49 points50 points  (45 children)

              These guys are often the most attractive, contrary to your assumption.

              Tons of free time to work out, pursue hobbies, perfect their game, chase women.

              Can stay out late any night they want. Can go to the beach in the middle of the day if they want. Lost a job? So what? Not losing your place, not going hungry, just gotta listen to mom yell a few times a day until you find a new grill to stand over and flip burgers.

              Access to all the luxuries Mom and Dad can afford, and simply present it as their own (hot tub, pool, vacation house, etc).

              Can spend 100% of their income on DHV-cars, clothes, jewelry, boats, toys, etc. Often have no savings, as they know the parents will bail them out if they are in trouble (wreck their car, catch a DUI, etc).

              When you make $1,000/week but have $3,500/month in bills, and need a buffer of savings, you have a lot less to spend than the guy who makes $300/week, lives for free, and needs no savings buffer.

              Can't tell you how many basement dwellers I know with boats, motorcycles, and nice cars, who spend all day, every day, chasing women.

              Most of them end up with a clingy low-smv girl that gets knocked up or otherwise wrangles them into marrying young.

              [–][deleted]  (27 children)

              [deleted]

                [–]massivewang 13 points14 points  (3 children)

                Oh yeah, and because women date down none of these men would be considered dating material. Maybe if they were hot and into fitness. But definitely not husband material.

                I've got a good friend who's an unskilled laborer. The most he's ever made is 40k in year working as a retail manager. He spends every fucking dollar he earns, has an endless amount of clothing, he drinks excessively, and has a life/emotional crisis every six months. There is nothing stable about him or his life.

                And he absolutely slays pussy. Women can't get enough of him. He is literally the most fun person I know. He lives in the moment, knows all of the most interesting/fun spots in town. He's got game, and he's witty/socially aware/intelligent.

                Women know what they're getting into when they date him, and they do it anyway. Yet there's nothing about his life style that even hints that he has anything to offer besides fun in the moment.

                [–]Lsegundo 17 points18 points  (1 child)

                Are you suggesting women fuck guys that give them tingles???

                [–]massivewang 3 points4 points  (0 children)

                Just adding an anecdote to the conversation up top about the play boys living at home still slaying chicks.

                [–]trpthroway123 19 points20 points  (22 children)

                Didn't notice that caveat in your post.

                Doesn't matter if they're a failure later in life, my point is, they are out pumping babies into 20-something women while those of us who are "successful" are too busy working, improving, and gaming to be passing on our genes or getting roped into marriage.

                The failures living with their parents are the ones passing on their genes.

                Tons of studies support this, it's not just my perception. It's been this way FOREVER.

                1945 Social Security office report, check the page 5 chart. Clearly, the less you make, the more kids you have.

                2010 report Clearly, it still stands.

                2013 report, nothing changed.

                When do they get knocked up? Overwhelmingly, age 20-29.

                Wanna guess what kind of people have low income and are knocking up 20-something year old girls left and right? The ones still living with mommy and daddy...

                [–]TyrannyVengeance 20 points21 points  (0 children)

                That's why F Scott Fitzgerald wrote. "One things sure and nothings surer, the rich get richer and the poor get.... children."

                [–]Sementeries 9 points10 points  (4 children)

                The failures living with their parents are the ones passing on their genes.

                That's almost like in the movie Idiocracy. You got this Gronk like football player who knocks up all these girls, and then you got these two baby faced couples who are very intelligent that wait till it's too late and end up dying kid less.

                [–]LasherDeviance 2 points3 points  (3 children)

                It's usually the woman that wants to wait too long.

                I have a friend in this very situation.

                [–]Marcus1138 8 points9 points  (2 children)

                Now days it seems all women are having kids at 35-40, and then wondering why they have down syndrome or other issues. It's pretty disgusting how irresponsible it is.

                [–]LasherDeviance 5 points6 points  (1 child)

                It's not only irresponsible, its selfish.

                She stuck it out five years, and when he finally married her ass, only because he was ready to have kids, she's all like, "I've gotten used to not having kids."

                He's like, "What the fuck did I marry you for?"

                He just got his first taste of the pill.

                [–]razormachine 4 points5 points  (10 children)

                Well I'm thinking about all single moms that got pumped, and none of them got pumped by wealthy man.

                From the genetic point of view only the man that pass on their genes can be considered successful. However that success cannot only be measured by number of children. The fitness is also important, because if those children do not spread their own genes, they simply do not count.

                The thing is that children raised in "single mom" family are not as fit. Modern society is going to take care that they do not die out of hunger, but still, females have daddy issues, boys grow into beta-bucks. They do not have the money for education... and while their daddy had parents who could afford to have their 30yo son stay with them, they will not have that privilege.

                The children produced in that way have seriously damaged fitness.

                The strategy does work if the mommy manages to find herself a provider though.

                [–]trpthroway123 11 points12 points  (3 children)

                Your thinking is flawed.

                These guys will never be beta bucks, they won't make money, they won't know how.

                Income is lower than ever for the next generation, guess what that means? More children, earlier. I'm not saying they're Chad, I'm saying they can get themselves laid with a 3/10 and pump out a half dozen welfare check recipients before the higher income kids get their college degree.

                The reason we have such big income disparity in our country is because low-income people have so many fucking kids, all of whom are low-income as well. There's 5-10 low income children born for every 1 high income child (depending on your area).

                It's been this way for generations.

                [–]Werewolf35b 1 point2 points  (5 children)

                I would think fitness only matters in relation to survival, which only matters to pass on the genes. So, fitness doesn't matter, barring these kids don't die young.

                [–]Sadpanda596 19 points20 points  (3 children)

                Haha, all the dudes I know in this category average about 30 hours of video games a day and haven't seen a gym since pe class in high school.

                [–]trpthroway123 6 points7 points  (2 children)

                I know quite a few of them. Heck, some of them are pushing 30 year old virgin status and have blatantly said they've given up and accepted they'll never get laid.

                For every one of them, there's 2 or 3 that just never grew up, never decided to take on responsibility, and use living at home as an enabler to live a party boy lifestyle.

                They rub their new toys and cars in my face, crack jokes about "you say you make all this money but drive an Acura".

                I don't bother explaining how my property tax alone is twice the payment for their Corvette (which is in their Mom's name, as is the insurance...)

                [–]Endorsed ContributorInvalidity 6 points7 points  (1 child)

                A lot of guys in your position will see how much better they fare than their counterparts from high school who never amounted to much. But likewise, they will all fall into the trap that is marriage and they will be forced to pay dearly for it.

                I hope for your sake that you aren't entangled in that mess. Because while that 30 year old virgin may be living a shit life, he doesn't have to walk around in a metaphorical leash and cuffs for the rest of his life.

                [–]NotSorryIfIOffendYou 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                I'd be more than willing to let my son crash at my place after college as long as he was both working in some capacity and also trying actively to find a real job, but dear god if he had the money to afford a boat I'd punt his ass out the door in a nanosecond.

                [–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (1 child)

                My grandpa built a house on his own during the socialism, with help of friends and neighbors. There were no government restrictions, you just needed to buy land and material. My dad got apartment for free from the company where he worked. That company built a whole apartment complex just for their workers.

                Socialism is long gone now. Jobs are scarce, and if you're a person with no work experience, your salary won't be enough to cover rent and food.

                [–]daddyj11 5 points6 points  (4 children)

                Keep your faith boys. A year ago I was making 10/hr now I'm more than 4 times that. Luck obviously plays a role, but keep working towards your own goals and you'll be fine.

                [–]A_Becker 3 points4 points  (2 children)

                Could you elaborate on your job? I'd love to hear your professional progression.

                [–][deleted]  (31 children)

                [deleted]

                [–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (3 children)

                You hit the nail on the head! Many n american parents never want to treat their little boy or little girl like a man or woman. There are definitely families like yours around here but there are also many where the children just get treated like children.

                [–]Golden_Dawn 14 points15 points  (1 child)

                Being a clan member can be a valid way of life in some societies, but us Americans typically value our independence. Once we're no longer dependent on our parents, we move out and begin functioning as an adult member of society. That's the theory, anyway. There has always been that percentage who lack the ability to make it on their own, and it seems like those numbers have risen dramatically. I would expect a large number of these failures-to-thrive to continue demonstrating dependence (parents, government, etc.) for much of their lives.

                [–]AnAbsoluteSith 3 points4 points  (1 child)

                I'm beginning to think it's a cultural thing. I can never comment in threads like this because my experience and that of others where I live is the opposite. A lot of young adults here live with their parents well into their late twenties/early thirties. We're definitely a more family-oriented society (or at least relatively speaking). A shitty economy and overpriced housing is definitely a contributing factor though. If it isn't too intrusive to ask, where are situated country-wise? My theory is that those who live in more "traditional" societies aren't in as big a rush to leave home. That has been my experience here in the Caribbean.

                [–]arrozxpollo 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                Especially the retarded thing about going into debt to avoid parents lol

                [–]teeelo 13 points14 points  (3 children)

                I live in my Moms (was parents, Dad died) basement on the family acreage. Well, mostly just sleep down there.

                It's a beautiful plot of land and I am very fortunate to live there. Yeah, I had to suck up my pride when I moved back in with them at 25 (30 now) I honestly wish I had done it sooner. I plan on buying the property from my Mom when she retires.

                Despite living in my parents basement I've somehow still managed to have sex with 3 different women down there. (Thanks TRP)

                I exercise. Work out. Have toys and it's an awesome party spot. My cat loves it too.

                Not getting married. Not having kids. Mom leaves for holidays and business trips all the time.

                Get past the living with your Mom thing, and I'm a decent guy to party with.

                [–]askmrcia 16 points17 points  (0 children)

                You have an advantage of your mom not being there alot. My mom was at my house all the time, no way I could bring women back to my place

                [–]ShatteredGold 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                My story is almost the same as you, feel kinda good when i read your post, salutes my friend.

                [–]clonegreen 4 points5 points  (1 child)

                I wonder what the rates are of people with roommates. Most guy friends I know don't live solo.

                [–]jackandjill22 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                Most millennials don't live solo.

                [–]Refigerator1043 4 points5 points  (2 children)

                If you're not interested in marriage/children why bother moving out of your parents' house? You don't need your own house unless you're starting a family, and there's no reason to make some landlord rich when you can just help your parents out with that money instead.

                If I had a family to live with I would definitely move back in with them, and I'm 30. Paying rent sucks and dealing with roommates is a pain in the ass.

                [–][deleted]  (2 children)

                [deleted]

                [–]Battle-Scars 7 points8 points  (1 child)

                I'm of the same generation and have lived through the attack of the middle class over the last 40 years. What mellenials don't understand is they can change things. Tuition too high? Look at the UC regents making 350k a year and fire them. The public sector is the new socialist welfare program. Fireman making 200k a year with full retirement that they didn't pay for? Really? The public sector corruption is rampant, they should all be fired and start over. Stop complaining, get into office and change things, give up your Bernie socialist dreams and re-build the middle class.

                [–]quaestor44 13 points14 points  (2 children)

                This is more a symptom of excessive government than male social change.

                [–]meanwhile_in_SC 20 points21 points  (0 children)

                Was looking for this.. absolutely a symptom of government entering (and as government is wont to do, becoming a legal monopoly on) the 'provider' market. Women don't need men so long as government can give them welfare and benefits for those poor poor single mothers.. I'm interested to see how professional women start reacting when they realize that their taxes (especially if men aren't working as much and paying less taxes) are going to their single mother sisters but they aren't having children themselves.. Wonder how long female socialist tendencies last then.

                [–]Vasallo7G 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                this is not a TRP problem, its a Fed / Central Banks problem...

                [–]Endorsed ContributorMentORPHEUS 5 points6 points  (3 children)

                To help understand this phenomenon, look at this graph of wages versus productivity.

                Contributing factors include overseas production recovering after WWII, arab oil embargo, outsourcing US manufacturing jobs, executives paid many multiples of production employees, real estate speculation, stagnant wages. I was born in the late 60s, my parent's generation could buy a house and raise a family on one income. Today, there are millions upon millions of Americans who work full time and take home below poverty level wages.

                Laying all of this at the feet of the 35% of men living with their parents is a bit disingenuous, don't you think?

                I'm not talking about the ones who DON'T work and mooch off of their parents, I'm talking about men who work full time and can't afford the regional cost of living.

                [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

                When I first swallowed TRP at 19 (I'm 21 now), the very first decision I made was move back in my parents and attend the university that is located in my city. The reason why I did that was because I was already ~$10,000 in student loan debt from living in a dorm room at a university across my state. Since net worth takes time to accumulate, the very first step I did was kill activities that brought it down (in this case, student loans).

                Now that I moved back in, I can proudly say that I am receiving what is basically a full ride through my undergraduate STEM degree, am already paying off my loans and have access to two different homes (my parents are divorced) in a quality suburban area.

                The whole "live it up while you're young!" crap gets drilled into people's heads nowadays in the United States, and a segment of this idea is that you must move out at age 18 right away. To get to school now, I take a city bus and after talking to a good chunk of the students that also live at home instead of "living it up", the script is quite similar: everything is expensive as Hell in this day and age, especially tuition, and students who work and go to school at the same time aren't getting paid jack shit.

                [–][deleted] 19 points20 points  (2 children)

                I live with my parents because I enjoy saving an extra $2K/mo and they keep my dog company. I have a 6 figure income and I am doing pretty well.

                [–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

                Hmm the time for a revolution is getting closer and closer. Hopefully the disenfranchised males understand it is the oligarchy they need to liquidate instead of just lashing out at all the other unfortunate plebes.

                [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child)

                I actually just moved back home with my parents in a city with a big technology sector. I just graduated with a CS degree. The job prospects are good, the rent is cheap, the city is beautiful. Don't see any reason why I shouldn't have done this, other than society's vestigial expectations from an era of cheap real estate.

                [–]I_Need_More_Space_ 2 points3 points  (6 children)

                I think people need to quit picking bullshit degrees. Your local university is like a used car lot. The counselor will sell you any dream you want, and the return on investment does NOT have to be there for them to keep making their $. They just need the steady stream of suckers who believe they can go after their dreams. Fuck your dreams. Find a degree or trade that has a good 10 year outlook, pays your bills adequately, and gives you freedom. Stop getting bull-shit philosophy/sociology/marketing/whatever degrees that are worthless.

                [–]PedophilePriest 7 points8 points  (0 children)

                Ive lived on my own for years and moved home a few years ago. I love it. I get to know my parents as adults, and live a high quality of life. girls don't mind, plates dont mind they usually love my old folks.

                The thing it made me realize is, I don't plan to marry, and don't care to cohabit....so why would I want to own a house? I mean ever. If you gave me a million dollars I wouldn't move out from my parents, what the hell would I do with a two bedroom that I live in alone?

                Men don't need much to be happy, I'd be happier in a cabin in the woods than in a typical house, those are for betas who are living in a fantasy.

                Might feel different If I lived in the city, and I have, but I prefer the country vastly more...Easy access to women is the only drawback I've felt.

                [–]guisar 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                Meanwhile in Denmark (where my son lived) it's 1.8%. It's societies choice how this is handled. Basically most minorities are shut out of the job market and then education is less and less of a priority for society (while athletics are celebrated). It's choices and alternatives with a lot of young men chosing the wrong ones.

                [–]bisjac 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                31yo, single, renting alone in tiny 1br apartment.

                am getting a little sick and tired of my living-with-parents-still guy friends who are just rolling in expendable income, even from their menial jobs. part of me hates them for it and is just waiting for reality to catch up to them so i can feel justified for my efforts ; ;

                [–]LLL3peat 2 points3 points  (2 children)

                I live with family. It sucks. Getting my own place soon however at does suck knowing I have eyes watching me 100% of the time.

                Yeah income sucks. As the man you're supposed to be a provider and she lives at home until marriage or so. That's supposed to happen in Spanish cultures or something. I have a feeling women are going to try and use me as a provider once I have my own place. Nah its not happening.

                Little by little I'm stacking paper and investing. Living underneath my means and looking to come out and have that high SMV on top by the age of 35.

                Lift, save, invest, and watch all my friends turn into fat slobs and can't afford anything.

                [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

                I'll probably get lost in the sea of comments, but I'm 23 and living with my parents. Let me explain it, though.

                I'm a Veteran, who's getting 90% of the GI Bill because I tried to pop my dome piece with my service rifle after coming back from afghan. Fun times. Not looking for sympathy, that's just part of the explanation.

                Because of that, I only get 90% of the GI Bill's Basic Allowance for Housing. Living in Hawaii, that means it's proportionally increased to adjust for the very high cost of living. Going as a full time student, even with that 10% missing, I still get a check of roughly $2,700 for every full month of class I complete (with half checks for half months, since the semesters start and end in the middle of months.)

                I've been doing this for about three semesters now, moving onto my fourth. And even with spending boatloads of money on cigarettes before (recently quit) and booze (Had a bad drinking problem, thanks marine corps!) and having to take care of the auto repair bill for my family's only car(close to 4 grand so far IIRC), I still have $12k in my savings account.

                Why?

                Because not getting laid every other night is a small price to pay for living rent free.

                Needless to say, not every young man who stays at home is a jobless loser. Some of us are lazy ass vets who just want to move on with our lives, but are having difficulty doing so. Or are going to college.

                [–]MeatCurtainRod 12 points13 points  (2 children)

                What everyone is forgetting here, is that men who can't provide for themselves are of VERY LOW status. Even when the women are blowing their shafts, they do it condescendingly and out of pity. This dynamic is at best "mother-son", and at worst "princess-slave" kind of relationship. And they will NEVER want to be seen with that kind of guy in public. What a horrible life for a dude.

                [–][deleted]  (1 child)

                [deleted]

                  [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  I'm one of those men.

                  I recently landed my first job in my field. The company happens to be less than 5 min away from my parents house. I will have no problem affording moving out, but I will stay home for at least a year so I can get settled in at work (and finish school. Only one semester remaining).

                  [–]worktillyouburk 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  i get job offers all the time specifically looking for woman, its just not fair why is it ok to be so blatantly be so sexist, when will there be quotas to be meet for male hires?

                  [–]IndescisiveUser 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  Being 27, this makes me feel less bad for moving back in with my parents. Financially it makes sense til I have a stable job and building up a savings for a home. Then again I'm transitioning out of the military so I'd say it's a particular reason. I've heard my generation called the boomerang generation because we'll venture far away and the end up back home.

                  [–]cynicalsimon 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                  I don't understand why there is no violence and violent protests, or war. the cost of living has become immensely high and mass corruption, on an international level, has never been this high, in the history of our species.

                  Also, that's not even mentioning mass censorship, drug policies and third wave feminism.

                  Apparently people enjoy being stepped on because this is the state of our species and it has never looked this bad.

                  [–]TheWaterTemple 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  pension ponzi going

                  My favorite part. What an amazing fact. Social security or whatever you want to call it is literally a Ponzi scheme. I believe Ponzi schemes are illegal ha. It's all a lie.

                  Otherwise, mediocre post. Lots of work to put in to express the man's plight.

                  I lived with my parents for the last year before moving abroad and I was bringing home different girls on the regular. I had a job mind you.

                  I made sure to talk to my parents, discuss and establish boundaries, and I told them it was no disrespect. They never expressed a problem with it.

                  [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  My uncle lived the life. He's just died no wife no kids. Always did what ever he wanted whenever he wanted because he had money from being a captain for American Airlines.

                  [–]etherealembryo 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  No parents but if i did have them i wouldnt be ashamed of living with them. Goals over relationships.

                  [–]BardCollege_Dropout 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  The best way to do this is to get one of those "female friendly job" and rock the shit out of it. Aint nothing wrong with being a nurse or a teacher, better than working for enterprise.

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