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LTRGoing a little "nice guy" AFTER you've slept with a girl is actually a great way to screen out crazy (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by guhajin

In my younger and dumber days, I noticed that after I hooked up with a certain type of girl (i.e. girls from clubs, or drama queen "bad girl" types in general) if I later asked them out on some boring regular date, they would mostly disappear. A long time later, I learned how to keep those plates spinning if I wanted to (basically all the stuff you guys talk about on here).

But these days I'm lazy af when it comes to women and I find that dealing with crazy and/or going out with women who are only marginally into you is always way more hassle than it's worth. Also, I think you need a different tact if you actually want a healthy, happy relationship.

So, if I'm looking for a relationship, what I do is simple: After I sleep with a girl, I'll be a little overly nice on purpose just to see how she reacts. I think the terms alpha and beta are kind of stupid, but in pua speak, I'll go just a little beta. I'll compliment her in some overly romantic way or I'll call her very soon after. Or maybe I'll ask her out on a standard movie dinner date. And in my experience this works great.

The girls who weren't that into you in the first place and were looking for an out will take it. The player types who hate normal dating will disappear. The psychos who can't handle any positive attention from guys and the drama queens who need constant tension will vanish in a hurry.

Buuuut...

The normal girls - i.e. undamaged, drama free, good family, etc. - who are really into you will roll with this even if they find it a little awkward or romantic is not their usual style. And the sweetheart romantic types... Well they will respond overwhelmingly positively. And from there, if that's what you want, boom, instant nice, non-crazy girlfriend.

EDIT: This was my first post here. Thanks a lot for the response guys. I think most of you got what I was trying to say. I think this community is great and it's taught me a lot, but... I gotta say, sometimes this sub gets way too fucking dark. I think there are a few people on here who need to stop ruminating about the depravity of the human race for a little while, go date a nice, happy girl, and cheer the fuck up.

And, on a related point, for those of you who insist that being a nice guy is "weak" I will say this: If "maintaining your alpha frame" 24-7 is that important to you, the drama queen in your relationships is you. Learning some game is great and necessary, but after you've done that, you have to know when to apply it. You can't stay constantly "alpha" over the course of months and months with a relationship oriented girl. If you try, you will either (a) eventually make her think you're a douchebag or (b) slowly turn a happy girl into damaged goods with trust issues. I'm telling you, if you want a girlfriend, relax with the "I must be alpha all the time!!!" mindset. A little nice works great with nice girls.


[–][deleted]  (66 children)

[deleted]

[–][deleted] 459 points460 points  (48 children)

Being kind isn't a beta trait, being weak is. Let's not get things confused. A beta is despised not because he is nice, but because he is a doormat.

If you really think about it, only alphas can be true nice guys anyway because they're not being nice in order to get something. Betas are nice to get laid, alphas know they can get laid regardless and thus if an alpha is a nice guy it is actually meaningful.

[–][deleted] 109 points110 points  (4 children)

That's the main difference imo between being nice and being kind. Nice people don't want to rock the boat and do things because they want something in return (to be liked). Kind people do kind things because the act of being kind fulfills them.

[–]razormachine 1 point2 points  (0 children)

As a reformed beta I can confirm this. It took me some time to define the difference. As a "nice" guy I did things because I wanted something in return. And now, sometimes I do "kind" stuff simply because it fulfills me.

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (9 children)

Last night I was at a party with my LTR. There was a pause in the conversation with the group we were a part of, and she asked me to go get something of hers out of my car. I pulled my keys out of my pocket and handed them to her. The women and white knights were shocked and said, "That's mean! Where's your chivalry?" No it's not, she's perfectly capable of walking outside to the car herself.

Of course the women were just shit testing me because if they really thought I was being mean they would have stopped talking to me, but they didn't. The white knights on the other hand, well you know that goes totally against their niceguy programming. If I start doing things like that, that's creating the conditions for her to continuously ask for (and expect me to do) more and more things which she is perfectly capable of doing herself. Women learned from an early age that they can get men to do these things for them, and I was not about to enter her frame - especially not in front of a group of people, because I'm not a door mat. And there was no reason for me to do that for her because it's not going to increase her sexual attraction to me. In fact, it will ultimately DECREASE her attraction to me if it happens enough. You gotta nip that shit in the butt immediately. You can't explain this to white knights because they don't get it (that's why they're white knights in the first place).

Later that night we were in bed and she brought up how everyone else thought I was a jerk for not going to the car for her. I said, "I'm not a jerk. I just got you off three times, because I'm a nice guy." Then I also brought up how I bought us a bottle of wine and frozen yogurt the other night, which she admitted shocked her (I only spent $20 total on both of us), and how I picked her up to go to the party instead of making her meet me there. So I am a nice guy, and she agreed.

I didn't get upset at her for being ungrateful though because women are inherently incapable of being grateful for the sacrifices men make for them. It also doesn't bother me because fundamentally she is really just accusing me of being too alpha and I am trying to defend myself by bringing up examples of being beta. I take that as a compliment.

[–]evileddy 17 points18 points  (2 children)

"That's mean! Where's your chivalry?

"That's sexist.. women are equal now!" smirk

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

yes this is what we say in our minds, but logic doesn't work out loud

[–]dyed_red 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Damn, that's a badass line, gonna keep it

[–]squeadle 4 points5 points  (4 children)

Later that night we were in bed and she brought up how everyone else thought I was a jerk for not going to the car for her. I said, "I'm not a jerk. I just got you off three times, because I'm a nice guy." Then I also brought up how I bought us a bottle of wine and frozen yogurt the other night, which she admitted shocked her (I only spent $20 total on both of us), and how I picked her up to go to the party instead of making her meet me there. So I am a nice guy, and she agreed.

Aren't you defending yourself too much by bringing up 3 examples?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

If I was trying to make myself appear more alpha then yes. But I was trying to look more beta

[–]juliusstreicher 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Definitely. Just because you can recall three examples doesn't mean jack shit except for the fact that your powers of recall are better than most. Seriously.

[–]lukeyj_gtfc -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Not at all. She's saying he's not nice for this. He is saying he is nice. He's giving reasons that fit into his frame. The point of it is control. He defends against being controlled but goes above and beyond on his own terms. Doing it as a choice, not because coerced. It still has the same effect, the woman knows she doesn't control you, even in social situations.

[–]yomo86 36 points37 points  (1 child)

Thank you for that. TRP gets this one wrong or it errs on the side of too much boldness for the newbies. I once drove 20 miles in the middle of the night to comfort a top notch plate because her pet of 17 years has passed away. But the day before I declined on doing chores in her apartment and meeting her mother.

Kindness, benevolence and sweetness when coming from a position of power will raise you above all.

[–]Your_Coke_Dealer 6 points7 points  (0 children)

This "too much boldness" is not only an error of the new guys, but also one of the pitfalls on the TRP "path" to alpha-dom. Some fall in the anger phase. They stay there forever and just hate women. Others fall later on and get cocky. They become douchebags who aren't really alpha but exaggerate traits you'd associate with alpha in order to fake it. Others still fail by believing themselves to be enlightened, when every single one of us is always learning. And finally, as you describe, some people fail because they never know when to chill. If TRP is truly internalized, you won't be thinking about it enough to need to worry about holding frame. It will just be a part of your personality to serve in your self interest, just like what women do.

[–][deleted] 37 points38 points  (0 children)

This should be fucking stickied

[–]1aguy01 17 points18 points  (4 children)

Preach. The most alpha guy I know is also the most generous guy, positive, and friendliest guy I know. Compliments people all the time and makes you feel really good. He's also an ex gang banging drug dealer that's done some horrible things to people.

[–]ChrisHernandez 13 points14 points  (1 child)

ahh alpha mixed with psychopath

[–]NormanoSilurian 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Beware of extremely charming people - some of them are psychopaths.

[–]1WeedDaddy 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Sounds like the criminals who find Jesus in prison.

[–]Kwantuum 7 points8 points  (2 children)

This hits the nail on the head. I'm a naturally kind person but if you can't see I'm being kind and mistake it for being a pushover and disrespect me I'm never being kind to you again, both with guys and with girls, though guys tend to appreciate what you do for them way more often.

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

[deleted]

    [–]Kwantuum 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    I'm not gonna stop being kind in general, I'm gonna stop being kind to the person who disrespects me. I start with the mindset that everyone deserves my kindness until they prove me wrong. I'm not abandoning kindness, I'm abandoning the person.

    [–]SatanAscending 2 points3 points  (3 children)

    It was quite popular here to distinct "kindness" and "niceness".

    You can argue it's semantics, words are synonymous, but perhaps it's because manspeak fails to deliver subtle undertones that femspeak does.
    That is also why people here quite often equalize "nice" with "doormat". And they would be mostly right, since "Nice Guy" is quite a loaded word that women use very often to reject unattracitve doormats.

    According to this, Alphas can't be nice. They can't be doormats. But they can be kind.

    Whether it's right or not for others to dictate the meaning of words we sue is another story, but what I wrote should cut it for now.

    [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

    I will overwhelm those words with litigation to the point that their GRAND children need lawyers.

    [–]SatanAscending 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    Sleek banter sir. I will leave the typo for grandchildren of their grandchildren.

    [–]muddynips 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    True charity has a cost and goes unrewarded. That's what makes it noble. People either forget that or don't understand it to begin with.

    [–]red-dead-erection 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Kind of anecdotal but whatever. I was spending the weekend at my girls place and she has this really annoying sunlight (window thing in the ceiling, not sure what's it called). There's no blind on it yet and it keeps waking me up early in the morning. So she left for work and I had a couple hours to kill so I put the blinds up that were already there waiting to be set up. It was mostly so I could sleep in in the morning and not be woken up by the sun. But when she came back she was so grateful she fucked my brains out. I wasn't doing it to get laid (I was already getting laid regardless) it was just a thing I did for myself that also benefited her. Now I don't know how this would have went down if she had asked or told me to do it but I'm pretty sure she wouldn't have been as grateful.

    [–]WAFC 9 points10 points  (5 children)

    Can we not buy into the feminist 'nice guy' narrative? Betas are not being nice just to get laid. Betas don't want to just get laid most of the time. They think that's what women actually desire. They think they are positioning themselves as boyfriend material not a fuckboy. Almost no betas dream of being a fuckboy.

    So cut it out with the BP bullshit about "nice to get laid." That's the narrative that serves women by allowing them to pretend Billy Beta isn't actually a nice person. We're smarter than that.

    [–]Joseph_the_Carpenter 5 points6 points  (3 children)

    Most "nice guys" aren't really nice. They are nice because they expect something in return for being nice and get mad when it doesn't happen. It doesn't mean only "be nice and you'll get laid/get a girlfriend." Rarely do I meet a genuine person who does nice things out of generosity and not expecting reciprocation. The nice-for-pay chumps are the most toxic people to be around and just the opposite of "nice."

    [–]Senior Contributorexit_sandman 7 points8 points  (0 children)

    Most "nice guys" aren't really nice. They are nice because they expect something in return for being nice and get mad when it doesn't happen.

    Sorry, but this is like saying that a woman who genuinely wanted a relationship with you regrets sleeping with you after you dumped her never really wanted to have sex with you in the first place. Maybe she had an ulterior motive when agreeing to sex (she did so because she thought it would put her on the relationship track), but this doesn't mean that sex is something she hates and intends to withdraw once she bagged you for good.

    In the same vein, a guy showering a woman with his attention doesn't do that for brownie points but secretly hates - he wants to treat his girlfriend like a queen; he's just frustrated when he realizes he got taken advantage of. Even moreso because of the sunk cost fallacy.

    [–]1WeedDaddy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Rarely do I meet a genuine person who does nice things out of generosity and not expecting reciprocation

    It's only rational. Otherwise nice people would be even easier to exploit by the unscrupulous.

    [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Right, the sad truth is that Billy beta, more often than not, is not a nice person. He just thinks that doing whatever everyone else needs or wants will make people like him.

    [–]betamale2 5 points6 points  (6 children)

    People like you more when they see you are an alpha, but you're also nice on the inside (but that nice/soft part of you shouldn't show often otherwise the alpha appearance is ruined)

    [–]zxDanKwan 50 points51 points  (4 children)

    Not true. Machiavelli only said it is better to be feared than loved IF you can't get both.

    The stern father figure who loves you tremendously but will bring down a righteous hammer of authority on anyone who disobeys him is one of the archetypes of someone who is both loved and feared.

    Some amount of nice guy is required to pull that off. If played properly, it strengthens your case as an alpha, making you someone who is reasonable and capable of being nice, instead of coming off like a complete douchebag all the time.

    [–]vagbutters 18 points19 points  (3 children)

    Some amount of nice guy is required to pull that off

    This is important, because either extreme can produce fucked up kids.

    The dad who's too stringent gives birth to these retarded hipster anti-authority types who never accomplish anything in life.

    The dads who show too much love (e.g. the cucked, estrogen-ridden stay at home dad types of today) raise weak beta bitches.

    A small amount of love mixed in with hard truths and discipline is what makes you respected as a father-figure. I've seen this in my own life and with other loved fathers.

    [–]paynehouse 12 points13 points  (1 child)

    Retarded hipster anti-authority types are pretty much always weak beta bitches.

    [–]Gawernator 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    So true. I am very thankful for a stern but fair father

    [–]MC_Boom_Finger -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

    There is no such thing as an "Alpha appearance" if you are striving for that you are a weakling pretender. A man knows when kindness is called for and when it is a determent to them selves and those around them.

    [–]yamehameha 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Beautifully said. I tell this to girls and usually it flicks a switch in their heads.

    [–]Nihilist401 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    to add an analogy that I read somewhere on this topic

    Imagine, for whatever reason, you've wronged some guy and he has a valid reason to come at you for revenge. But he comes upto you and says he forgives you.

    Is he being a big, kind man in doing that? Pretty sure the answer changes if its a 5 foot 2, 110 pound manchild saying he "forgives you" vs a well-built 6 foot 5, 250 pound man.

    Women apply the same filter, only in situations which are less obvious to many guys

    [–][deleted]  (2 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]TekkomanKingz 9 points10 points  (0 children)

      Tell your Woman how cute her friend is all the time and watch her grind like never before cowgirl style to maintain control.

      A sly comment every once in a while is all it takes.

      [–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

      Dread game is an amazing thing.

      [–]1Snivellious 5 points6 points  (2 children)

      This seems to be what people forget when they mock advice like "Women want a man who shares his emotions!"

      Pretty much all of those tips are accurate if you prepend "Assuming you're already masculine and confident..."

      [–]i_have_a_semicolon 3 points4 points  (1 child)

      She wants a good boy, a bad boy, a good bad boy, a half good, half bad, half boy

      [–][deleted] 26 points27 points  (8 children)

      I always hear about dread game. What is it?

      [–][deleted] 42 points43 points  (5 children)

      Not really sure why you're being downvoted as it's a legitimate question. Probably because it's in the sidebar somewhere and they would prefer you to read that.

      Basically dread game is showing your partner discreetly that she's not your only option. When you say something funny and the female cashier laughs at your joke, and your girl gives her a dirty look,that's dread game. When you're walking with your girl holding hands and you catch someone checking you out, and you feel your girl's hand squeeze yours a little tighter, that's dread game.

      [–]squeadle 8 points9 points  (3 children)

      your girl gives her a dirty look
      you feel your girl's hand squeeze yours a little tighter

      Aren't those things the RESULTS of dread game?

      [–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (1 child)

      They are signals that let you know dread game is working. You demonstrate your SMV and remind her that she must always be vigilant because there are other women who will steal you away if she drops the ball. The actual results of dread game are numerous. Maybe she cooks for you at home that night to demonstrate her value. Maybe she fucks your brain out that night. Maybe she just doesn't bitch so much when you play videogames instead of going shopping with her.

      [–]Gawernator 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      True. I have found that I can get away with gaming with no bitching by giving her a good dicking beforehand.

      [–]Your_Coke_Dealer 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Dread game can be passive; you don't need to signal your girl that you're checking someone else out. You just need someone else to check you out sometimes and not appear to be unaware of it. So for the sake of explaining it, the response you receive to the phenomenon of female dread is also considered part of the process

      [–]i_have_a_semicolon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Dread game also doesn't have to be so limited. It's basically not being a complete doormat and having standards and being willing to walk away if the girl doesn't meet those standards.

      [–]vagbutters 5 points6 points  (1 child)

      You should read the sidebar-- it explains it better than anyone else here can. Dread game is the idea that you get your girl jealous so that the ball is in your court, so to speak. This usually involves getting other women's attention (e.g. flirting in front of them openly) so that your girl views you as a high-value male who she needs to keep other twats away from.

      [–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

      I am very familiar with the concept, I just didn't know it was referred to as dread game.

      [–]1StinkyDiaper 6 points7 points  (0 children)

      All your LTR has to know is that you have other options should she ever stop treating you well.

      [–][deleted] 53 points54 points  (10 children)

      OP, I think your idea is very good, but you're forgetting about one very toxic type of girl - the bad girl who, right after she realizes you're the nice guy after you had sex with her, she'll use this characteristic of you to try to manipulate you and even emotionally abuse you. So I don't think your strategy actually weeds out ALL crazy and manipulative women.

      [–]Bodegaz 9 points10 points  (6 children)

      I believe what OP is trying to explain is his way of shit testing women. He tests women by changing his behaviour from being that "Alpha" to a regular normal guy and see how her behavior changes.

      I also test my girls in a similar fashion. After the girl sleeps with me a few times and she's hooked, I would purposely act like a complete dick to see what I can get away with. Basically, I would be an asshole and see how much she would put up with to stay with me (aggressively push away til she breaks down then pull back). I would also start acting like a "lil bitch" ("Beta") to gauge how her behavior changes.

      This may seem a little manipulative and maybe even psycho. But I wanna know if the girl really likes me or not. If she does, chances are she would put up with a great amount of your bullshit. I've gotten away with some ridiculous shit. This is why some men get away with multiple partners.

      [–]RedMoonAscendant 3 points4 points  (0 children)

      Women shit test to see if it's okay to give away their pussy.

      Men shit test to see if it's okay to give away their commitment.

      It's not manipulative or psycho.

      [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children)

      If she does, chances are she would put up with a great amount of your bullshit. I've gotten away with some ridiculous shit.

      Hmm... Interesting.

      But does the fact that she puts up with a great amount of bullshit make you lose the respect you had for her?

      [–]Bodegaz -1 points0 points  (2 children)

      I do lose respect for her because she puts up with my bullshit. But at the same time I respect her for being able to deal with it if that makes sense.

      It's almost like a women loses respect for her husband for being a beta provider guy. But also respects him for sacrificing his "manly interests" for the betterment of the family.

      [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      I do lose respect for her because she puts up with my bullshit. But at the same time I respect her for being able to deal with it if that makes sense.

      So in the end the fact that she puts up with your bullshit is a good thing or not for you? Does that make her look less LTR material for you?

      [–]Bodegaz 4 points5 points  (0 children)

      For a LTR, yes. She is submissive and I can do whatever I want. For marriage? I don't know. Never been married.

      [–]cherno_electro -1 points0 points  (0 children)

      sounds like the D.E.N.N.I.S. system!

      [–]razormachine 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      I think it is a good test. As long as he can also recognize manipulative and emotionally abusive woman. He shows her some beta traits, she tries to manipulate him, he recognize's it and she didn't past the shit test. He simply next's her.

      [–]SudoAptGetMeASammich 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      [deleted]

      What is this?

      [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      I don't think you understood my point, tbh.

      [–]TRP VanguardArchwinger 37 points38 points  (4 children)

      You're screening for the cutest monkey in lipstick.

      If you meet a girl at the club and fuck her outside of a relationship, she's not girlfriend material, even if she responds positively to a lame beta date the next weekend.

      Sure, she's a little better than the shit-throwing monkeys, but she's still a monkey in lipstick.

      [–]_vend7u 3 points4 points  (2 children)

      Wouldn't you say that 90% of women in USA and UK have had a one night stand? They'll be a slut in the club but wouldn't they be acting all innocent in another place?

      [–]RedMoonAscendant 11 points12 points  (1 child)

      Ding! Correct answer player #1. Though I think it's more like 95% than 90%. There's a reason we say NEVER GET MARRIED. We're assuming you're in a Western country where 95% of women are not suitable for marriage.

      [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

      just like how everyone on this thread is not suitable for marriage :)

      [–]vagbutters 17 points18 points  (0 children)

      I put on an act after fucking them to make them not feel buyer's remorse. One false rape accusation is all it takes to ruin your life, so making sure their feel-feels aren't hurt is essential.

      [–]bleed_red_white_blue 11 points12 points  (1 child)

      I think the "I must be alpha all the time" mindset is actually a mis application of TRP. You have to be you. The cheesy be yourself advice is half the story, the be alpha advice is the other half. You have to be your best self, your definition of alpha, a person you enjoy and love being.

      [–]Eyeswears 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      It's like the difference between jogging and sprinting. Our natural inclination is to stay at a steady speed, assuming we aren't being chased by a cougar, but by putting in extra effort, we can go faster, within the bounds of our limits, which can be improved with training.

      [–]melb22 5 points6 points  (4 children)

      But take care to also screen out women who want to follow up because you have flicked on their "you are a nice guy provider type" switch. Some of these women have the ability to delude themselves into thinking they are attracted to you (and maybe a part of them is for a while) but the relationship can come down to her wanting to leverage you for stuff and her repressing a desire to be with a different more uncaring kind of guy. So it's complicated, no?

      [–]2insickness 1 point2 points  (3 children)

      but the relationship can come down to her wanting to leverage you for stuff

      You can suss this out, though. You should be vigilant of her trying to leverage you and walk all over you anyway.

      What OP is talking about is something I do on a longer timeline when I'm considering turning a plate into an LTR. I give her some power and leverage and see how she responds. I see if she gets demanding and selfish. It's a reverse shit test of sorts.

      [–]Gawernator 0 points1 point  (2 children)

      Not a reverse shit test. Just your own male shit test.

      [–]2insickness 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      A shit test to me implies some type of emotional or irrational behavior on her part. Otherwise it would just be called a test.

      [–]Gawernator 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Not always... Read the Rollo Tomassi article on it. Groups of guys shit test each other. Like when you're the new guy at work or in a new military unit.

      [–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (31 children)

      Don't really like the term beta. I think provider fits much better. There are guys out there who are neither alpha not beta. They have shit social skills/genes/anything alpha, and are also unable/unwilling to provide.

      These men are not "beta", but they most certainly are not alpha. Alpha still works fine, it perfectly describes the kind of guy women want to fuck. But beta implies that women don't want to fuck him, unless it's for resources, which is not always the case with providers.

      [–][deleted]  (3 children)

      [deleted]

        [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

        I think you're the one who got triggered.

        [–][deleted]  (1 child)

        [deleted]

          [–]slay_it_forward 2 points3 points  (12 children)

          The more men figure this out the more they will be unwilling to provide. So what happens next? All the betas drop out (MGTOW) and you have the alphas fucking harems, just like for most of human history. We're reverting back to our primitive past.

          [–]Limekill 0 points1 point  (11 children)

          [–]JackGetsIt 2 points3 points  (10 children)

          Thanks for posting this. I've read about it multiple times but it's great to revist. The narration was great. I don't think MGTOW drop outs will lead to a collapse. Society will just accept the new female mating strategy (it basically already has in the western world). Women get knocked up by an alpha, when he doesn't stay they seek out a provider, if they can't find one they just scrap by with government handouts. Religion use to shame women and government use to stay out of the welfare game. These two things worked together to keep female hypergamy contained. There are no constraints anymore. So you're not getting regular sex if you're not an alpha and you're not getting any sex if you're not a provider.

          [–]Limekill 1 point2 points  (3 children)

          I don't think MGTOW drop outs will lead to a collapse.

          Have a look at the birth rate.

          Germany has the lowest in the Western world - why do you think Merkel let them all in? They actually need workers.

          By something like 2050 the only continent with a growing population will be Africa. Asia's birth rate is right down and the middle east is falling fast (I read from 7 to 2 in the space of one generation).

          A lot of western countries will need immigration to pay for the baby boomers retiring.

          If you want to look at a country with a low birth rate - look at japan which has been in a deflationary economic slump since the 1990s. Is this the only reason why japan has been in a economic slump? No, but 25yrs is a long time.

          The reason why the West is not having an economic slump is because of the Trillions the Central Banks are pumping in, which can mask a lot of problems (deficits due to health care and pensions and other spending). We are follwing the deflation path: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/141199fa-9660-11e4-922f-00144feabdc0.html (all the bond prices are basically falling showing expectations of long term deflation).

          But how do the Trillions get repaid? See Jim Rogers: http://youtu.be/KESyZFAZFA4

          [–][deleted]  (1 child)

          [deleted]

            [–]Limekill 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            I read somewhere that 65% of refugees in Australia are on welfare after 5 years. This could be the result of many factors, such as -

            • poor education (no existing skills)
            • inability to read or write in their own language
            • cannot speak English

            As such you are correct, they are a drain. German is however betting that the next generation will work and as such will pay for this generation. With a strong system of technical education and pushing (forcing) people to go into apprentices for large corporations it MIGHT work. But this completely ignores MASSIVE social upheaval.

            [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            Unemployment rates are exeptionally high among immigrants (let's not call them "refugees"...) and they're commiting most crimes (the best example: Sweden).
            Merkel is just a puppet that implements a bigger plan of a few psychopaths.

            [–][deleted]  (5 children)

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              [–]JackGetsIt 0 points1 point  (4 children)

              I think there are alpha men across all income ranges. The low income alphas are knocking women up left and right because they don't give a shit and they make money under the table and won't be paying child support anyway. Society ends up paying for those children collectively (I don't ever really see that stopping). Despite societal support those children also end up repeating the cycle because they have absent fathers.

              The feminist movement wants to create a generation of beta males that will worship women.

              I think this was happening before feminism as well. The 'state' and feminism have a vested interest in neutering men and turning them into worker drones. Because both die with out the fruits of our labor.

              [–][deleted]  (3 children)

              [deleted]

                [–]JackGetsIt 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                Let's start with your second question(s).

                Why would an alpha man care about whether other men are alpha or beta and why would an alpha guy desire/hope other men to be beta

                I think you have a narrow idea of alpha and a broad ideal of beta. Alpha isn't this non caring aggressive oaf of a man (there are a few of course!), alpha can be tech investors, elementary school teachers, doctors, bus drivers. Alpha is a broad term. I wrote about this in another thread a few days ago.

                In short, the alpha is the best adapted male of the group in a particular environment.

                I have thought a LOT about the definition of alpha. Many posters and bloggers have tried to spin off the word with other ideas, situational alpha, alpha provider, natural alpha, alpha traits, alpha attitude.. on and on. I think your short definition is the most accurate and succinct from my personal experiences. Alpha is highly situational, yet still tied to some key factors. From the video: "If you've ever met someone and you were nervous when you were meeting them, you're not the alpha. We've all had the experience where were meeting somebody and we can sense when they're nervous meeting us; you're the alpha." This is also a great summary of 'alpha.'

                So I think to cluster alphas together like that and assume all they want is a power grab is to over generalize. Even the dark triad type alphas know that they are working within a hierarchical social order and using, manipulating, and working with betas is just part of the 'game.' I think this is why you hear some on redpill say we 'need' betas. They are commenting from a Machiavellian perspective that we need betas to pay taxes, do low level jobs, sacrifice in war, etc.

                As for your first question. I'm not sure I can really answer accurately because I don't know your age, education level, temperament, financial IQ, area, etc. Business's are risky even for gritty, wealthy, smart people. They are highly risky and downright stupid for lazy, naive, uneducated, poor people (I'm not assuming you are either of these of course!).

                Since you mention 'career path' I'm going to assume you are still young and considering your major. Business is a better major then English, History, Psychology as far as marketability but there are scores of business grads that don't have access to jobs because it's much more profitable to start in a skilled trade and then realize a market within your trade and use your business skills to monetize a good Idea. I think business is a good second degree with more 'direct to a career' type majors like medicine, law, and accounting (although some don't have the prowess, aptitude, study skills, intellect, to double major).

                Another great and very profitable educational route to take is accounting. It's not for everyone but after a few years at an accounting firm you can branch out and be a consultant or CFO for business's and then you will have the capital (as well as understand how to financially evaluate business plans) to start your own business with a much higher chance for success. There are also so many un-college educated small business owners that need financial/business minded people to help them with their business and they will pay handsomely.

                If you're still in college and deciding on a major I'd recommend talking to professors and setting lunch with actual professionals in your fields of interest and asking them what will be 'in demand' in 5-10 years. You want to pick fields of study that 'will' be hot and make sure to ask specifically what is an under-serviced niche of the profession.

                All that rambling aside business is still a solid major and if you don't want to be a wage slave with luck and hard persistent work it is potentially much more profitable then public sector, and most salaried positions.

                This TED talk is also a must watch if deciding between an 'ownership' business type path or a salaried type path.

                [–]Krunjar 1 point2 points  (11 children)

                There is also Gamma, Omega and Sigma, but they aren't really talked about much here.

                [–]Kumrag 4 points5 points  (8 children)

                deleted What is this?

                [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (5 children)

                They aren't really relevant to the discussion on TRP. The listed link does not really apply either and shouldn't be taken as gospel. What we describe as alpha here trickles partially into beta on that list. What we describe as beta ranges from beta, through delta, into gamma. Lower gamma and omega is just a terrible place to be. Sigma is an idealized version of what everyone wants to be I guess? Good luck with that though, if you are a sigma you don't spend time on TRP most likely. The only other term I ever see thrown around here occasionally is omega.

                After a second read, I think I would just group sigma in with alpha. You really shouldn't use that list though. They are using the same words, but they don't mean the same things in the context of discussion here.

                [–][deleted]  (2 children)

                [deleted]

                  [–][deleted]  (1 child)

                  [deleted]

                    [–]slay_it_forward 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                    Sigma is a lone wolf alpha.

                    [–]NeckbeardVirgin69 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

                    Sigma can't exist in TRP because guys who can't comprehend anything but the binary classifications (Alpha and Beta) want to shit on everyone who isn't exactly like themselves. Alpha and Beta makes it easier to diss all guys who aren't exactly the same as other Alphas.

                    [–]1StoicCrane 7 points8 points  (0 children)

                    All of this detracts from TRP principles. Labeling yourself is pointless when it comes to women. All that matters is Dominance (Alpha) vs. Submission (Beta) in terms of behavior.

                    [–]mpower20 3 points4 points  (0 children)

                    Doing so beforehand, however, is a good way to screen out pussy

                    [–]Hakametal 4 points5 points  (7 children)

                    The easiest way to screen out the nutjobs is by holding back on texting/calling and online communication. Use the phone for setting DEFINITE dates and get off the phone. Radio silence in between. If she contacts you, keep it brief and charming and say you'll see her whenever you've set the date.

                    This type of indifferent behaviour will bring out the worst insecurities in women fast, and will allow you to screen them out from very early on. A girl with a heathly self-esteem and confidence will hold you to your word and meet you in person when you say so. An insecure girl will get bitchy and complain that you never text her and will do shit like give you the silent treatment (passive-aggressive women are the fucking worst).

                    My 2c.

                    [–]Scriptopeia 0 points1 point  (6 children)

                    I know I am 1 month late, but I want to say that this just happened to me.

                    I tried something different this time with how I handled a girl and it worked out perfectly fine.

                    Basically I used to have a lot of online communication/texting etc., but not this time. I barely messaged her and the results were insane. Sometimes she asked if I am alright and it happened more than once that she asked whether I am even interested in her.

                    First it didn't bother me (Because this was what I planned - she messaging me first and looking at her reaction), but I don't know what happened to me, because at some point I took the bait and started messaging her more regulary. I actually changed from the "I am a very busy men and IDGAF attitude" to the "caring and nice" guy.

                    Never. Do. That. Re-reading my messages made me realize how needy I looked at some point. I fucked up.

                    Needlessly to say that we didn't meet in 2 weeks (Comparison: 3-5 days a week before) and it looks like it will stay like that.

                    [–]Hakametal 0 points1 point  (5 children)

                    Radio silence is effectively the easiest and most efficient form of dread game. Women will go full hamster as to why you haven't contacted them, even if they're not that much into you.

                    What you must remember though (and this is equally important) is to REWARD her initiated contact. Say something like you've been busy with work/school and that you'd love to meet up soon, then ask when she's free. Set a definite time and place and tell her you'll see her then. THEN GET OFF THE PHONE and the next time you see her will be in person... in the flesh... like human interaction is supposed to be.

                    [–]Scriptopeia 0 points1 point  (4 children)

                    What you must remember though (and this is equally important) is to REWARD her initiated contact.

                    This was legit the situation. I waited until she messaged me and told her that I had been busy, but could potentionally be free at "XY".

                    Easiest meeting ever. Sadly I fell into the trap when she said that she didn't like how I never messaged her first. Rip me.

                    One question though: Is it clever to use pictures of me with other girls for example on WhatsApp to like.. tease her? Or do I completely fuck up the whole situation?

                    [–]Hakametal 0 points1 point  (3 children)

                    I fell into that trap in the past also. But now you know. When a girl says that she's doesn't like that you don't text her first, she's testing to see if she can break your Frame... or she thinks that your relationship is something more. Regardless, she believes she has the power and that's not a good sign.

                    Do whatever the fuck you want to on WhatsApp. It doesn't matter because you should be applying IDGAF. You're overthinking the situation because you obviously really like this chick... and that's your problem. You have her on a pedestal and you care too much. Cut it out and start meeting more women.

                    From what you've said, this girl sounds like she might be a narcissist. Narcs are people that need constant validation and must feel better than the other person, and it comes from a place of insecurity. Narcs will NEVER submit to your Frame, so be careful and do not invest emotionally (which I feel you might already have to some degree).

                    [–]Scriptopeia 0 points1 point  (2 children)

                    Man, you are so right.

                    You are reading me and my situation like a book right now. Anyways I needed someone to take me back to reality.. and you did. Thanks.

                    [–]Hakametal 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                    No worries, I've been in situations like this before. In fact, the last girl I dated was like this so my knowledge is still fresh. If you have any more questions regarding your situation, feel free to PM me.

                    [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

                    I luck out since I take a weekly solo trip to the movies every week. It's a personal space. It serves as a great testing space.

                    The "Movie Date" become something more important in this manner. And it gives me a chance to test out a movie I'm on the fence about. Don't buy popcorn.

                    [–]samenrofringslikeLBJ 3 points4 points  (1 child)

                    Alpha Beta isnt pua, its anthropology. PUA is the shit you see at night clubs where guys will walk up to girls and say "horses have 4 eyes" just to get a reaction.

                    I had an LTR when the opportunity arose to bang a solid 9 who just had broken off with her first and only sexual partner, so I went ahead and did the deed. In order to scare her off after as to not have her in orbit, I did exactly what you did but in reverse, i think the main point is that noticeably different behaviour post coitus is like failing a shit test.

                    [–]RedMoonAscendant 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                    Wow. You hung out with some retarded PUA lamers.

                    [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                    this is the kind of thread i like to see more of in TRP. no orthodoxy, but pragmatic thinking free of dogma.

                    [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                    No offense, but I would never consider a woman I picked up at a club "LTR-material".

                    [–][deleted]  (1 child)

                    [deleted]

                    [–]Guffbrain 5 points6 points  (0 children)

                    Good point. Posts based on stuff that actually happens in the OP's life are solid. There are far to many posts here that are "I've been stewing all day about my ex-wife, women in general, and how much I want to lift more. So here's an extended essay on a bunch of abstract hypotheses in my head."

                    [–]Overzealous_BlackGuy 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                    I also read it's good way to get rid of women as well, but me personally, I'd be afraid it might end up working in her favor, plus I can't accept the whole idea of me acting like a blue pill man again.

                    [–]overwatchtinder 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                    IMO I'd just keep fucking them until THEY showed they were willing to put in the effort for more.

                    Example: you buy and cook me dinner and THEN I'll go for a nice walk with you where we talk and be all lovey dovey.

                    Example 2: you communicate like I know women are capable of (but overwhelmingly never choose to do) and tell me you're into me and you want to connect

                    Without them making a bold, required step my efforts feel like a waste.

                    [–]drqxx 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                    Cheer the fuck up.

                    100% Yes; so many people can't find a nice quality girl. Well misery loves company. Be a miserable fuck and you'll reap what you sew.

                    [–]herewegoaga1n 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                    They are so fucking broken we can actually predict their level of crazy. We truly live in a magical time.

                    [–]top-notch-alpha 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                    Great post buddy! I agree some people on here can be dark especially on asktrp talking bare shit behind a computer screen when they know just as well that's not how they act in reality.

                    [–]hawk4433 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                    Agree with the post. Women love "alpha" but they also like to see your softer side every once in a while, especially after sex when a girl is most vulnerable.

                    [–]1SuperStalin 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                    this is totally true... the crazies cannot distinguish nice from weak.

                    If you're being genuinely nice, they will most likely see it as weakness, or just get so confused about it, they'll escape ( and you will dodge a bullet ).

                    [–]hansfriedee 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                    Refreshing. Thanks for posting!

                    [–]LanAlMadragoran 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                    I just wanted to say that this is a great post. Most RP men forget this, and get lost in trying too hard to be stoic all the time. I absolutely love how you highlight this type of LTR-test in order to weed out the crazies. Thank you, and I will try this in the future

                    [–]casemodsalt 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                    Non-crazy girlfriends are boring as fuck tho

                    [–]Theophagist 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                    Honestly this sounds like a goalpost shift to make lemonade out of the lemons of breaking frame.

                    [–]aanarchist 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                    going full nice guy is how you sniff out crazy. a little nice guy is how you get her to go awww i love you. you have to give her bait that her hamster can't help but trip over. this is how you keep save from women.

                    [–]Apexk9 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                    I just wait crazy always comes out, I enjoy the sex in the mean time

                    [–]icecow 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                    The OP Post and top comments seem muddled and confused.

                    [–]SouthernAthena 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                    Once I mentioned to my boyfriend that if he acted alpha 24/7, I would have assumed he didn't like me and walked away with hurt feelings a long time ago. He then explained that "never breaking frame" is for managing damaged women.

                    'nough said.

                    [–]Botanical-Concepts 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                    It's like a shit test for women.

                    [–][deleted]  (4 children)

                    [deleted]

                    [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

                    What does this have to do with anything?

                    [–]telenoobies 2 points3 points  (1 child)

                    what the fuck does this have to do with OP's post?

                    [–]1empatheticapathetic -1 points0 points  (0 children)

                    Can't he just express himself for once in his life without your criticising him?