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2.5 million men 'have no close friends'; Lets Brainstorm How to Make Friends post-College (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by Endorsed ContributorLastRevision

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/active/mens-health/11996473/2.5-million-men-have-no-close-friends.html

I'll admit, this article hit home. As I've watched my social circle dwindle over the past few years, I'm realizing that as a man over-30, it's very very difficult to make new friends... and while it's somewhat reassuring to know I'm not alone with this struggle, I don't look forward to an Army-of-One future where I'm thriving in all other aspects of my life, and I come home to nothing.

So, first, why do men have such a tough time making/maintaining friendships:

  • Men do not have an in-group preference for one another. Like all things feminists, the "boys club" trope is total bullshit. Men are usually thrilled to White Knight/virtue signal and let a girl into their club. Women, conversely, do have an in-group preference which means it's much easier for them to make friends (even if those friendships are superficial). Think of being in a new environment; a man will usually sit alone while a woman will have no problem sitting with the other women there.

  • Male spaces have been contaminated. Furthermore, men have been contaminated too by the female imperative. This means that not only do men not have an area to congregate and speak openly, but even if they did, chances are there are White Knights present to limit/police authentic discourse (not that conversation must be limited to gender realism, but women do not face any restrictions when speaking with one another). And, of course, when a male space is contaminated and made uni-sex, immediately all men present must play by the Girls Rule playbook.

  • Married men/men in LTR are discouraged from outside friendships. And isn't that fucked up?

  • There is more social pressure on men, and men respond to this by opting out. Women face no social pressure, and you'll notice they often speak freely when talking to new people. Men feel pressure to meet a certain standard, and understand that they are under constant judgment from others, and often times will just say fuck it and avoid talking to new people. I've found that unless I push myself around new people, or at work, that I'll often only speak when I have something of value to contribute to a conversation... while this makes sense, logically, it isn't the best way to be social. RSD Tyler had a really eye-opening video about this where he dissects nerd talk/vibing; people DO NOT look for nerd talk in casual socialization- people look for vibing; or, bringing a fun/happy/positive presence to people, rather than having lots of value in the things you're literally saying.

  • Men seem to think there is something unmasculine about male friendships. You'll notice there is A LOT of social conditioning in this direction; where on a sitcom, if they represent men getting together in a group, it's always something like men sitting in the woods, without shirts, banging on drums, or some bullshit. This is to convey to the average man that male friendships are faggy. And I can see naturally feeling that way, because seeking male friendship is almost like an admission of need- we need to move past feeling this way (or, at least, I do).

So, with that said, can we brain storm how a man post-college, or over 30, can make new friends?


[–]rickaboy 95 points96 points  (23 children)

This has been discussed on here a few times before.

First up - The way that men and women socialise amongst themselves are different. Men for example, are more likely to get competitive in social scenarios (sports, cars, women) etc.

Men are more likely to bond around hobbies. So think of some stuff you're good at, and go place yourself in a situation where you can demonstrate your ability. Eg. If you're good at a particular sport, find a club to play in. If you're a good handy man, maybe do a car maintenance course or something to learn/refine/hone skills.

Also, as people get older (over 30) they are less likely to try new things. So, learn a NEW skill. Try stand-up comedy, a new sport, take up salsa. Whatever strikes your interest.

It is certainly incrementally harder to build close friendships the older you get. Good luck.

[–][deleted]  (12 children)

[deleted]

    [–]UCISee 6 points7 points  (3 children)

    Truthfully I know exactly where you're coming from. Nothing really interests me except for self improvement. Whether that be financial, physical, mental, whatever. It's hard to find someone else, who's also sporting external genitals, to bond with on that. Gym friends give the "Nice gains!" etc. but beyond that, it's floating.

    Even before TRP I started to notice fakers as I got older. The more introspective you become, the easier it is to spot the bullshit coming your way. It really sucks, but I think thats what being a man truly is. My dad is single and over 50. Slams out women kind of regularly but ditches them quick, works on the car, reads, just generally keeping busy. The big difference is he still has his High School friends because he never left town. On the opposite side of the coin my 'close friends' span the entirety of a continent. I cant just cruise down the street when I feel like BS'ing. Can't say that an epic suicide by cop hasn't crossed between these ears. Maybe a Dead Presidents 2.0. I talk to a lot of my buddies and they feel the same. No desire to have our souls sucked out by some succubus, but therefore lacking the 'companionship' our fathers had.

    I'll keep you posted if I find an answer, but as for this moment:

    TL;DR: I feels ya daeg

    [–]sharp7 1 point2 points  (2 children)

    There has to be cool guys around. Just aren't looking strategically or hard enough. But I guess that's what this thread is about. Its tough now adays.

    I eventually just kind of gave up and went to live nearby old college friends for now.

    [–]UCISee 3 points4 points  (1 child)

    I mean, what is cool to you? In high school it was dudes who dressed like me. That basically sums it up. Now its people with the same interests as me. Seeing as how humans are all naturally different, event the people I agree with most of the time, make me want to gouge my eyes out at other times.

    I found some solace in cross training gyms and basically winning. But even this that glitters is not gold. Eventually you figure out some people aren't genuine and are just talking to you because you both naturally produce test.

    Meanwhile my GF hates 90% of her friends and constantly talks about how fake they are etc. then goes out for drinks with them. You know what I absolutely don't do? Drink with people I don't like. Women seem to look for connection anywhere and everywhere even when there isn't one, then call these fake ass people their friends. I would rather have four good friends than eight 'friends.'

    [–]sharp7 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    I would rather have four good friends than eight 'friends.'

    Agreed. That's a big reason of why I went back to my old friends. One true close friends is better than infinite fakers.

    I'm going to try to be more active, maybe get into some old hobbies like BJJ or try some new ones like climbing and hiking to try and get some more friends but its so hard now adays.

    But sometimes I think that probably won't be enough and I'm going to have to just figure out how to be okay alone or through the net. Be active in forums or blog to get my conversational needs out, and try to meditate to reduce the need for other things. Not sure.

    [–]10xdada 111 points112 points  (64 children)

    Men do shit with guys they have something in common with. It's "activity friends." If you are lucky, you will have a friend who isn't an activity friend, but these are rare.

    • Get a motorcycle with carbs, or an american style v-twin.
    • Learn to sail.
    • pilots license.
    • classic car.
    • race cars
    • hunt.
    • golf.
    • shoot.

    You need a craft.

    [–]B_uckets 59 points60 points  (23 children)

    The problem with these suggestions is that people are so fucking poor these days. All my 30-ish friends are still paying off student loans and living with roommates in shitty apartments to cut down on bills. If you ask them to do anything other than stay in and drink, the answer is "Sorry, I'm too poor". Obviously they word it differently because they're almost ashamed to admit it at this age, but the message is the same.

    [–][deleted]  (4 children)

    [removed]

      [–][deleted] 15 points16 points  (9 children)

      man reading this is pretty depressing, but it's ultimately very very true. How sad is it that in this day and age, we can honestly say your average 30 year old is too poor to afford one good hobby lol

      [–]mugatucrazypills 14 points15 points  (8 children)

      it's brutal, like society just tossed a whole crop of young men

      wait a minute ... no .... if you have money for booze you have money for a hobby

      [–]Raikkonen716 7 points8 points  (3 children)

      I remember one guy once told me that in order to be successful you need to know successful people. And the best thing you could do in order to build some connections was to go in some golf club. Not many poor guys there.

      [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

      golf might be the most affordable hobby of the whole bunch, so it's an idea!

      [–]Raikkonen716 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Mmm maybe in Us, here in Europe not exactly..

      [–]Raikkonen716 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Mmm maybe in Us, here in Europe not exactly..

      [–]Endorsed Contributormonsieurhire2 13 points14 points  (0 children)

      On the flip side, guys with money are as choosy as women regarding who they elect to fraternize with. If you don't offer them some immediate value, they won't want to add you to their social circle. Also, many of them are locusts who just use people until someone better comes along, so you constantly have to police your inputs.

      I always tell people that there are no friendships, merely associations, and that you don't have friends, you have associates.

      A friend is someone who you can confide to, someone who will have your back when the chips are down, and that's not most people.

      [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

      Sports are largely free. E.g. pickup soccer.

      [–]thrwwy425 12 points13 points  (19 children)

      Mine are carpentry, climbing, board games, improv, and D&D. If you live in a town with any decent population, there are clubs you can join, classes you can take, hobbies you can invest in. Even if you don't meet anyone cool, you're learning skills and bettering yourself in the process.

      [–]Axoc 17 points18 points  (18 children)

      D&D

      I wanted to play this since I was a little kid and my dad used to tell me stories about playing it when he was 15-20ish. Before TRP I was too afraid of what others would think. Now, I play it with some of my best friends and we have a blast. I DM and it has helped me SO much as a writer, public speaker, etc. If any of you guys have ever even come close to wanting to play, really check it out, even if you're playing with strangers.

      The stereotype exists for a reason, and if you find a group that is like that, you can always just keep searching for a new one. If you're in the Nashville TN area, I'll even let you swing by to one of ours.

      [–]thrwwy425 21 points22 points  (3 children)

      Honestly, nerd culture has been co-opted by mainstream culture so much by now that it isn't hard to find cool dudes that would love to play. The guys I play with are all financially stable men in their late 20's/early 30's, and we spend one evening a week hanging out, laughing our asses off as we cast spells and kill monsters. The fact that it's D&D means none of the guys' wives even want to be in the house, let alone get involved, maintaining it as a sacred dude space in these guys' otherwise mostly hen-pecked, female-dominated lives.

      [–]felipebarroz 8 points9 points  (0 children)

      Exactly. In my play group, we have a State Judge, an IRS agent and a girl who's studying to become a federal forensic expert.

      None of us is the stereotypical DnD nerd, starting with the fact that we all play in couples (currently there are 4 couples playing). It's a fun and different activity to do with your girl, just let her chose a character that she likes. My gf is a Biologist so, of course, she chosed to be a druid.

      [–]Philhelm 4 points5 points  (0 children)

      I got to play D&D in Iraq, 2003-2004. Someone had a miniature chess set, so we used the white pieces for the heroes and the black pieces for the monsters. All of the other games, such as cards, Risk, etc., got burnt out; it was like Groundhog Day.

      [–]metalfan20 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      I felt the same way about magic the gathering. I see it as poker night with a little more brain power required.

      We live in a strange time where the Jocks and Nerds can be one in the same. I saw the cultural shift while I was in high school. As Freshman you could be made fun of being into Star Trek while as a Seinor everyone was stoked to see the new movie.

      [–]1StoicCrane 2 points3 points  (11 children)

      The recent Baldur's Gate Enhanced Editions and IcewindDale got me hooked to D&D a few years back. A very well crafted series with plot nuances that can place Hollywood movies to shame let alone games.

      Building friendships/associations are really geared around common interests and sharing personal experiences through said interests. As nerdy as D&D may be it effectively does both.

      [–]Philhelm 1 point2 points  (10 children)

      Yes! I still hold Baldur's Gate I & II to be the finest games ever made, and not just in the context of the time they were made. Subsequent games have tried to capture the magic, but have never quite succeeded, even if they were superior in certain technical aspects.

      [–]1StoicCrane 1 point2 points  (6 children)

      Have you heard Baldu's Gate is getting a new expansion with over 40 additional maps and 100 items! It's called The Siege Of Dragonspear currently underway!

      [–]sharp7 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      I started D&D when a friend from BJJ got me into it. Its really very interesting. Trying to act different characters is very interesting and forces you to think in new ways, as well as highlights some of the issues you may have. For example, sometimes I like to play "loser" characters as its hilarious and somehow pretending to be one really makes me not want to be one in real life. I think when you fantasize of being better, whether through play or just watching a show, you feel like you did something awesome already and become complacent. If you watch/pretend to be a loser, you start to hate the fuck out of it and try to avoid being like that in real life.

      [–][deleted]  (3 children)

      [deleted]

        [–]AldoTheeApache 1 point2 points  (2 children)

        Took up fencing a year ago, best decision ever. Met some new friends there (men and women) that also tend to be into other outgoing activities besides sitting around "watching the game" like my current circle is about. It's also a helluva workout and keeps your toes mentally as well.

        [–]Purecorrupt 19 points20 points  (1 child)

        Friends out of convenience sort of ends after college. I would agree that all or most of my friends are activity friends.

        Work friends.

        Basketball friends.

        Snowboarding friends.

        Improv friends.

        Sports Watching friends.

        When those activities end those friendships basically end. Stopped gaming and I only talk to 1 guy who I got to go snowboarding with me and another that moved in my area. This is after a decade of gaming way too much. If I quit any other activity those people involved are likely to quickly disappear.

        Outside of that - there are maybe 4 or 5 people that I may shoot the shit and go somewhere with (food, bars, festivals, vacation, etc.) on a slightly more regular basis. These might be the ones I actually call on the phone - but still mostly to hang out. If any of them moved or I moved the friendship would be dumped to facebook updates or "I'm in your town" texts.

        The days of just hanging out at a buddies place doing nothing ended for me a long time ago. I'm 27 for reference.

        [–]1htbf 4 points5 points  (0 children)

        The days of just hanging out at a buddies place doing nothing ended for me a long time ago.

        It just evolved into something else. There is nothing so special about doing nothing and just talking. You might as well talk while you do something, like drinking a beer at a bar, having lunch outside or just walking together in the city.

        [–][deleted] 28 points29 points  (5 children)

        Missed one: music.

        I joined a new band about 8 months ago and they are already among my better friends.

        [–]1Sergnb 19 points20 points  (1 child)

        I've made most of my guy friends through music. Having a vast music knowledge, be it through a lot of digging in whatever scene you are into, or by actually being a muscian, is the ultimate "this seems like a cool person" presentation card. Provided you don't fuck it up later on, it's relatively easy to make new friends through music alone.

        [–][deleted]  (2 children)

        [removed]

          [–]anangryterrorist 6 points7 points  (2 children)

          A few things you missed:

          • drinking heavily
          • drinking mildly
          • dirt bikes
          • beer
          • musical instruments
          • whiskey

          Most of the guys I know are pretty simple. If you can have a drink and make jokes, you're in.

          [–]tallwheel 1 point2 points  (1 child)

          Yeah, it's funny that you mention drinking and beer. A lot of my friendships are based almost entirely around drinking craft beer and going to beer bars. I know it's not the best dietary habit, but the whole scene can be a lot of fun and very involving if you become serious. I and a lot of my friends also dabble in homebrewing.

          [–]anangryterrorist 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          Eveb if most people don't like making it, they cab appreciate the product, which is enpugh of a talking point to bond over.

          [–]saml01 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          This right here. The thing I miss most about having a bike and a "race"(not really, it was a turbo'd miata) was the community. When i got rid of those, that cut me off almost immediately.

          [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          deleted What is this?

          [–][deleted] 162 points163 points  (44 children)

          My best friend turned into an Islamic fundamentalist.

          I wish I was joking about that.

          [–]Garconanokin 110 points111 points  (1 child)

          See, he got built in friends that way. Although, I hear it's a tough cell.

          [–][deleted] 69 points70 points  (0 children)

          You made me giggle 72 times

          [–]Frigzy 44 points45 points  (30 children)

          Islam is attractive because it's the lazy man or woman's ticket to a close knit ingroup where all the good intentions get projected towards.

          It's lazy because a true spiritually honorable community or religion would recommend its followers to project those intentions globally, meaning one would have to work on himself or herself to overcome his current state and grow in a spiritual way.

          Islam allows you not to do so, in fact it expects you not to, since that negative energy can be put to good use, aka combat 'enemies of the faith'.

          True spirituality has no enemies. Islam is the most childish religion out there. It's a disgrace, but it works because the majority of people on this planet never fully mature.

          [–][deleted] 28 points29 points  (1 child)

          This is precisely what happened.

          We all moved out, he stayed behind in the same town. He had a hard time making friends after school. He started going to the local mosque to find some people he could hang out with. One thing leads to another and he's now posting religious material on Facebook

          [–]mugatucrazypills 6 points7 points  (0 children)

          hey that happened to my 1st wife

          [–]debashis22 10 points11 points  (7 children)

          One of my best friends growing up ... his father's name was Salman Hussein. In 1991 he was harassed so much locally that they up and left Charlotte, NC for Toronto. Sucks about your friend though.

          [–]Sementeries 6 points7 points  (6 children)

          Well, our president of the United States is named Barack Hussein Obama . How weird is that?

          [–]volkommm 1 point2 points  (4 children)

          Hussein is his middle name, though.

          [–]redpill_kurious 6 points7 points  (1 child)

          And the only people who point out his never-relevant middle name are crazy. Not a big fan of Obama either.

          Then again, I'm opposed to shortcutting rational thought with emotionally-laden labels. IMO this doesn't fit in with TRP 100.0% of the time.

          [–]volkommm 4 points5 points  (0 children)

          Yeah, his name is completely irrelevant. It's not like he fucking chose it himself. He actively stated his name as 'Barrack Obama' because he knows how people would react.

          [–]bvolkl 122 points123 points  (185 children)

          I know it seems like an outdated organization to some people but when I got out of college I joined the Freemasons. I did it specifically to meet other men whom I might become closer friends with as many of my superficial college relationships were beginning to fade away. I feel blessed to have made that decision. So many great guys who I know I can just call to grab a beer and talk about whatever is happening. In fact the man who introduced me to TRP is one of my brothers. I currently live in Africa working for an international development organization and I get postcards and emails from brothers just to say hi or check up and see how I'm doing. Once you are part of an organization like this you can meet strangers all over the world and already have something in common with them.

          [–]Endorsed ContributorLastRevision[S] 27 points28 points  (138 children)

          Don't I have to know a mason to be asked to join the masons?

          [–]bvolkl 38 points39 points  (135 children)

          Yes and no. By "law" (our own) we can't ask you to join the masons, you must be the one to seek membership. That said, we hold recruitment events open to the public in hopes that new brothers will join. You can be a random guy off the street and walk into any lodge and they will welcome you with open arms assuming you don't have a heinous criminal past.

          [–]Squeezymypenisy 13 points14 points  (104 children)

          Does it help to have past family members that were members? My great grandfather and possibly late grandfather were members and I have thought about seeking membership for awhile.

          [–]recon_johnny 22 points23 points  (97 children)

          Help is not really the issue. By and large, we're not a restrictive body--there are some criteria to be a Mason; one is to be a man, another is to believe in God (Higher Power sort of thing, not a religion). If you can answer honestly that question, then there's nothing that would prevent you (from what I see here).

          If you have family members that were Masons, then perhaps what the organization is holds a little more for you...but we are willing to accept anyone who desire to 'seek more light'--basically becoming a better man.

          [–]Strike48 10 points11 points  (9 children)

          So for example, believing in the power of the universe and the grand being that is universal energy count as believing in a god? I don't really believe in Christ and all that, but I do have a sense of perspective and realize that we're all just tiny beings compared to the power of the universe. The universe to me is a grand being. I can draw energy and spread it by keeping a high vibe to myself. I know its a bit odd, but it always helps to believe in something greater.

          [–]CyLoke 5 points6 points  (0 children)

          You're a Pantheist, you'd be fine in the Masons.

          [–]recon_johnny 3 points4 points  (5 children)

          It's not about Christianity. There are things that are, like the York Rite, but for the Blue Lodges, it's about believing in something more than you.

          We call it the Supreme Architect of the Universe, as most of what we follow to has a science behind it - Geometry, Logic, Mathematics. As the operative Masons used this in building physical structures, we as speculative Masons use the same to build ourselves.

          At the end of the day, it will be if you can be comfortable in your belief, and if this can be reconciled in things like prayer (we do pray, but not to a deity). I would suggest having a good discussion with a local Masonic lodge.

          Note: If you do go through with the process, you will need to give an oath. That oath is done usually on a Bible, but I've seen the Torah and Koran. The lodge may suggest alternatives for you.

          [–]TRP VanguardWhisper 19 points20 points  (35 children)

          another is to believe in God (Higher Power sort of thing, not a religion). If you can answer honestly that question,

          Many young men can't. It's a lie that's super-easy to tell, and has few or no negative consequences, but not every man is willing to lie to those who are supposed to become his brothers.

          [–]recon_johnny 6 points7 points  (2 children)

          As you proceed further, and come to know/rely on those men, that small lie will really become a bigger problem.

          [–]TRP VanguardWhisper 9 points10 points  (1 child)

          Exactly.

          Have you read my article on the four levels of social cooperation?

          Here at TRP, we teach men to lie, cheat, and manipulate, but lying, cheating and manipulation are a strategy. Whether it's a good strategy to use depends on who you are using it on.

          We try to break men of the habit of behaving morally towards a society that acknowledges no reciprocal obligation to them, but to have brothers, a man must be a brother. How you behave towards some random ho is not the same as how you treat your tried and tested bro.

          Someone who lies and cheats with everyone will fail because he has no friends. The amorality we teach here is about reserving honourable behaviour for those who repay goodness with goodness, and honesty with honesty.

          So, yes, I agree that telling this small lie can be a big problem.

          [–]SouthPorn 14 points15 points  (31 children)

          This is why I can't be a Mason and it really bothers me.

          I know I'd love the fraternity, and I'd make great connections. But at the core I'd be lying to my so called brothers, even if it were a little lie.
          If there were a "Don't ask, Don't tell." sort of option I'd be fine. Sadly that's not the case, and there is no other equal sort of fraternity that doesn't have such a rule.

          [–]Senior Contributordr_warlock 18 points19 points  (0 children)

          If you lie about or omit the fact you don't believe in a core component of the philosophy, you will feel a major disconnect or the lack of belief will manifest itself in a notable part of your actions. Not worth it to join.

          [–]TRP VanguardWhisper 9 points10 points  (11 children)

          These organizations were formed when everyone either believed in the invisible wizard, or had to lie about it in every aspect of their lives.

          Now, they stand out for this, because they are one of the few organizations that hasn't changed the rules. This is probably not so much them being Jesus freaks, as simply being an organization of men, for men, and thus naturally resistant to outside pressure to change the rule.

          It's their ballgame, so they can do that. We wouldn't let anyone come along and tell us to change Rule Zero.

          But in applying a vague litmus test like that, instead of explicitly abolishing the rule, they are selecting for people willing to lie to them (especially among younger men, who are the least religious segment of the population).

          [–]SouthPorn 6 points7 points  (4 children)

          I don't detract them all this rule, I don't even think their religious nuts. I just really don't want to have to lie.

          The truth is though that having weaker morals will get you farther in life.

          [–]NikoMyshkin 7 points8 points  (3 children)

          Most atheists I know have extremely strong morals. Religion is absolutely no indicator of decency.

          [–]recon_johnny 3 points4 points  (5 children)

          they are selecting for people willing to lie to them (especially among younger men, who are the least religious segment of the population).

          Not sure I agree. About 70% of US population believes in God--and I've heard this higher. Urban area are primarily non-religious, but the rest of the country holds some belief.

          What I want to emphasize is that this is not about Christianity. My lodge has Jews and Muslims. If one can believe all on this world (and every other) is completely random and just luck, then that's fine. If, however, you think that maybe there's some intelligent design behind things--again, not Christianity--then that's all we ask. Do you think that maybe...just maybe...it's not so cut and dry/black and white? There's much literature on the subject, and is a good mind expansion, regardless.

          [–]TRP VanguardWhisper 11 points12 points  (3 children)

          70% of US population believes in {some version of a deity}

          That sounds about right.

          However, this is significantly lower among younger people. That means that religion is dying out. Organizations that only accept theists are going to have smaller and smaller percentages of younger people, which limits their future in a rather severe way.

          If, however, you think that maybe there's some intelligent design behind things--again, not Christianity--then that's all we ask.

          You don't have to argue that your requirement is reasonable and small. It's your club. You can do whatever the fuck you like. You require neither my permission nor my approval.

          However, it's specifically the idea of an intelligent designer that younger people tend not to believe in.

          As our process of gathering data with science starts to explain more and more things, not once has that explanation ever been "someone designed this". So the responsibilities attributed to a designer have gradually retreated into the areas we do not yet understand.

          Once God was thought responsible for mankind. Then this was shown not to be the case, and it was that surmised that he was responsible for life. Then, this, too, was shown to be untrue, and he is held responsible for the universe.

          But young people are starting to notice a trend. Everywhere we look for God, we find him absent. While the non-existence of any thing can never be proven, people are starting to think it's reasonable to assume that this trend will continue, and that every new corner we shine a light into will reveal complexity as an emergent phenomenon, and the absence of God.

          What the Masons wish to do about this is up to them. My understanding is that Masonry is not a church, and that it still certainly has functions to serve in a godless universe, but that's not for me to say. It's not my place to tell Masons what to do with their thing. They built it, I didn't. They own it, I don't.

          [–][deleted]  (12 children)

          [removed]

            [–]mhornberger 6 points7 points  (4 children)

            If you are confident enough in atheistic beliefs to refuse to answer such a simple question, I think you need a bit more humility.

            Most atheists aren't claiming to know. We just see no reason to believe in God.

            Affirming belief, as in, "Yes, I believe God exists" doesn't seem to be the same thing as "I don't know." If I can't affirm belief in God, and don't want to pander or lie to someone, how does that indicate a lack of humility?

            [–][deleted]  (10 children)

            [deleted]

              [–][deleted] 29 points30 points  (8 children)

              I'm in the same boat at 25. My perspective on it has improved recently when I recognized that many Christian men are red pill men naturally. While I don't agree with them on the spiritual shit, I always find common ground with them in their hobbies. They make for some of the safest friends. Years ago I made the mistake of always being in the company of liberal, hipster minded people my own age because they tended to agree with me about religion but for different reasons. Mainly being that they didn't like being held to moral standards(red flag). Biggest mistake of my life. So now I'm just an atheist of sorts that prefers Christian friends. Seems to work well.

              [–]eccentricrealist 21 points22 points  (5 children)

              I'd be glad to have better communities with atheists but for some reason a lot are pretty autismo

              [–]cosine88 45 points46 points  (2 children)

              I'm atheist, and at times have really hated religion.

              But I have to admit, religious communities are way better at raising men than atheist communities.

              [–]Stormhammer 15 points16 points  (1 child)

              You know, you're not wrong. They definitely hold to more traditional values where men are head of the household, women are to submit to their men, etc.

              [–]Squeezymypenisy 2 points3 points  (4 children)

              I want to join for that last bit. The Masons always struck me as upstanding men and I loved that about the organization.

              [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

              This is the first time I hear people discussing about the masons in a positive light. Usually it's just the "baby-eating filthy zionist elitists" kind of mud-throwing.

              [–]recon_johnny 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              PM me. Looking for what state/city you're in, and I can give some details. I have friends in about 10 different states, several locations; so you never know, maybe close to you.

              [–][deleted]  (5 children)

              [deleted]

                [–]recon_johnny 3 points4 points  (4 children)

                So, you can't just join the Knights Templar. You have to be a Master Mason, then apply for the York Rite, which has the three bodies. Knights Templar specifically, and York Rite in general, is a Christian organization, and you need to believe in Christ if you proceed with those degrees.

                Good for you for not doing something against your beliefs.

                From the Grand Lodge of California:

                Is Masonry a religion?

                Masonry is not a religion, nor is it a substitute for religion. The fraternity requires its members to have a belief in a Supreme Being, but the fraternity itself is not affiliated with any religion, and men of all faiths are represented in the fraternity. Religion is not discussed at lodge meetings.

                This is their definition. I would first contact a local chapter for assistance, while also emailing the Grand Lodge. They should be able to reach out directly.

                If you have any trouble, PM me. I know a few folks that might be able to assist, or get someone in contact with you.

                [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (15 children)

                Seems lame they tie God into it. Even if they don't preach or anything... simply being an atheist excludes me?

                [–]recon_johnny 4 points5 points  (12 children)

                Yes.

                Freemasonry wouldn't be viable for you, if this is the case.

                [–]Ubermensch33 3 points4 points  (11 children)

                Freemasonry

                How is agnosticism, i.e. "I don't know", viewed?

                [–]recon_johnny 1 point2 points  (9 children)

                My gut says that you must side on the "Yes, maybe" v. "I don't know".

                Note I say maybe, not probably. Let me get with some guys tonight and discuss.

                [–]dogextraordinaire 1 point2 points  (8 children)

                The provincial grand master of my local lodge said agnosticism was fine. That said, where I live they're dying for young blood so probably wouldn't mind overlooking that detail, as long as you erred on the yes side of maybe.

                [–]bvolkl 3 points4 points  (5 children)

                I suppose. The only thing that would really prevent you from getting in is be a giant douchebag during the interviews or have a terrible criminal past. It's always great to see brothers with family connections in lodge. For example my last roommate became a brother a little bit after me and was raised to the rank of Master by his father. The dad made a very moving speech.

                [–]Squeezymypenisy 0 points1 point  (4 children)

                How do you look up local lodges to join? Do they have a website or contact info?

                [–]bvolkl 1 point2 points  (3 children)

                A simple google search of your city and the term Freemason should give you the contact info for the nearest lodge. If you aren't in America or the UK the lodges tend to be in major cities only.

                [–]Squeezymypenisy 0 points1 point  (2 children)

                I figured it would thanks. Didn't know if there was some type of advanced system or something.

                [–]bvolkl 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                Those numbers probably exist but not to the public. For instance, the secretary of my lodge loves numbers so he puts together interesting demographic info into a report he gives once a year. But he does it for fun, not because it's part of his duties.

                [–]recon_johnny 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                I'd also suggest the Grand Lodge for your State. They have a comprehensive list as well.

                [–]10xdada 4 points5 points  (1 child)

                The organization is really open to new guys joining. I recommend emailing your local lodge and just saying, "hey, I don't know if I know anyone in your lodge, but I really want to learn more. Is there a way to meet someone to learn more?"

                The guys I've talked to say so long as you are focused on helping men become better at being men, looking for brotherhood and to help others, you should be fine. Being around other guys teaches you to listen.

                [–]recon_johnny 3 points4 points  (0 children)

                I did exactly this...went to website and sent in an message. A couple of days later a friend of mine responded---I didn't know he was a Mason.

                I enjoy being there exactly for the reasons you list.

                [–]yomo86 2 points3 points  (9 children)

                What is the age median? Are there any guys under 30? I am quite thrilled with this organization.

                [–]recon_johnny 3 points4 points  (4 children)

                In my lodge, we have an excellent mix of ages. There's a lot of military, and that probably has something to do with it as well.

                Our median age is under 40, and we have about 200 brothers. There's a few outliers over 70, and I'm sure that brings that median age up some.

                What I strongly recommend is to investigate the lodges--they'll have a Stated Meeting with a dinner usually once a month (we have meetings almost every week, but the Stated usually brings out more folks). Get to know the guys, talk to a bunch. Not just about Masonry, but about what they like to do, family life, etc.

                If it doesn't have a good vibe, then move to the next one. I've travelled to about a dozen lodges, and while most were spectacular, a couple weren't so much--it is a family after all. Find what you like.

                Also, the guy leading the lodge (called the Master) can really define how the lodge operates. With the support of the other men in the Officer roles, he can change the internal dynamic. My lodge, for example, used to go out to drink and eat afterward. Now we stay in and bullshit (with booze), and it really has become more of a family feeling.

                In my state, there's a shit ton of local lodges within a 50 mile radius--maybe 8 or so.

                PM me if you like, and I'll help find some places for you.

                [–]bvolkl 2 points3 points  (3 children)

                The average age of all members is something like mid fifties because membership is for life so the old coots sitting in the nursing homes drive that number up a bit but for active members I would say mid thirties. My lodge might be an exception because it's in a city rather than a town but we have a lot of active members in their mid to late twenties as well as some fresh out of college.

                [–]Radaghast38 1 point2 points  (2 children)

                How are the dues?

                I've read in several places that the entry level ranks are heavily priced, and that to rise in rank/knowledge you'd better be ready to pay a bunch of money over the years.

                [–]bvolkl 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                I pay $20 USD a year in dues. Each degree was also $20 USD so I paid in total for my first year, $60. I'm sure places like Boston, NYC, and Alexandria that have a lot of wealth in the area and a lot of history charge more but I can't imagine it's making anyone go broke.

                [–]recon_johnny 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                Not so much. It's pretty cheap, as far as I'm concerned. Application fee was about $250. That includes the first years dues. Yearly dues are about $150.

                There is no graduated system, either. If you want to learn more, you simply attend. We don't hold secrets from anyone. Lodges will have Masonic Learning, so you can understand what's behind it. A lot of that also comes from mouth to ear learning that men who know will pass down.

                Now, if you want to do concordant bodies, like Scottish Rite, York Rite, Shriners, yes, these have their own fees. York Rite is about $30-40 each. There's three bodies within the York Rite (Royal Arch, Council and Knights Templar), so it's about $120 a year for that.

                Shriners (which most everyone knows, but usually doesn't associate with being a Mason) are very much philanthropic, and they rely on you for donations....the hospitals and care for children are all based on your help.

                [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

                What about a criminal past that isn't heinous?

                [–]bvolkl 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                We have a brother get accepted that had two possession charges on his record from when he was young and dumb. We didn't feel like that was too bad of a past. DUIs, murder, assault on the other hand doesn't scream good representative for the organization.

                [–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (1 child)

                Where'd your TRP Endorsed flair go?

                [–]Senior Contributor: "The Court Jester"GayLubeOil 26 points27 points  (1 child)

                How long do I have to be in before I get invited to an Eyes Wide Shut Party?

                [–]reigorius 5 points6 points  (10 children)

                What I know about freemasons, here in The Netherlands, is that is mainly successful men working in the higher echelons of business, white and seeking answers to questions like what is the meaning of life. Average age is 62,5 here. Not quite the appeal to be honest.

                I haven't attended an opening evening, but I'm slightly curious and wonder if the claim that all men from all layers of society is actually true. How does your loge look like? How red pill is freemasonry? Is it about the comradery?

                [–]bvolkl 11 points12 points  (4 children)

                It's true men from all walks of life join. In my lodge we do have the successful businessmen rubbing shoulders with what we would call a redneck. Our lodge is directly across from arguably the fanciest bar in my city. After every meeting we head over there for a few hours of solid male bonding while being the best dressed group of SOBs in the place (we are a tuxedo lodge, always looking sharp). We also have monthly get togethers ranging from bbq's, dinners, bowling, and trivia nights at local bars.

                [–]reigorius 3 points4 points  (3 children)

                Sounds like an okay club to me, would join it in a heartbeat. But the average age of 62,5 here is a dealbreaker. I got the number from research paper from a freemason I found online. Thanks for your reply.

                [–]bvolkl 6 points7 points  (1 child)

                As I mentioned in an earlier comment the average age is artificially inflated because of life long membership. If it's something you're interested in ask what the average age of active members is. I guarantee its lower.

                [–]recon_johnny 5 points6 points  (0 children)

                I've suggested elsewhere to go to the Stated Meeting with a Dinner you can attend (not the actual meeting inside the lodge, but beforehand).

                Talk to the lodge secretary, if you want those age details. We have several brothers that are well into their 70's, and I'm close to several. There's a few that I would do anything for, and age has never been an issue. If you would have asked me years ago, I wouldn't have agreed.

                [–]SouthPorn 5 points6 points  (2 children)

                I know I could just lie, but I wouldn't want my membership to be based on that, even if it was a tiny little lie.

                Do you know anyway around the God question? Or any lodges that don't have this requirement, or a similar organization?

                If not I'm going to have to start my own "boys club." So to speak.

                [–]earthforce_1 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                I think Legions are becoming more generally open now. All the WW2 veterans are dying off, so they must either close down or open up.

                [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (4 children)

                What do you guys think of all the conspiracy theorists who criticize the Freemasons as an evil organisation?

                [–]recon_johnny 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                Dude, we plan take over of the world most every meeting.

                No, not really, we're a dinner/drinking club

                [–]bvolkl 5 points6 points  (2 children)

                I'll get an email every once in a while with a new theory in it from a brother for a laugh. Let's say hypothetically we really are an evil organization. We make up for it by donating just shy of $1B a year to our various charities world wide so that's got to at least buy us a little good karma.

                [–]zarus 2 points3 points  (1 child)

                hahaha it was a couple of hours ago but my upvote ticked it up to 33

                [–]Gotmilkyy 2 points3 points  (2 children)

                Isn't the whole deal of the Freemasons kinda like Fight Club? Don't see a reason to talk about it outside of events or meet ups.

                [–]bvolkl 2 points3 points  (1 child)

                Actually to date I've not once beat the shit out of anyone for entertainment nor self improvement purposes.

                [–][deleted]  (1 child)

                [deleted]

                  [–]bvolkl 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                  You have to believe in some form of higher power, whether that's one God or many, doesn't really matter. Frankly, if you're an atheist and really want to join you could just fudge that small fact in the interview.

                  [–]taw127 58 points59 points  (3 children)

                  I'm going to suggest specific ways to overcome the obstacles OP has laid out. Feel free to add on.

                  Men do not have an in-group preference. You don't need an in-group. When you're out and about, make conversation, be lively, engage groups and people. When I started doing stand-up, one of the first things I did was start befriending the regulars at the open mics. Whether or not you sit alone is up to you. So don't.

                  Male spaces have been contaminated. If a woman/girl is an outsider, treat her accordingly. More importantly, make sure your group agrees with the dynamics you yearn to have within a friend group. My closest network has a fair share of women in it (< 50% but > 25%). We don't bother policing each other because the majority agrees that we'll say and do what we like and anyone who doesn't like it can screw off.

                  ... discouraged from outside friendship. Be the leader in your relationship. If you want a night out with the guys, take it. If your friends are whipped and not allowed to go out anymore, there are ways around that. One of my closest friends recently got married and had this exact problem: his wife takes up all his weekends. Instead of resigning myself to having one fewer friend, I started inviting her out as well. After the first couple of times, she decided that our group was not quite her speed and started leaving early. The same is true for my LTR. If I want to go out on my own, I tell her I'm going out on my own. If I know I'm going somewhere she'll be welcomed, I tell her to come along "as arm candy". Note: she goes to bed much sooner than I do so I've established the rule that, if she gets tired, she goes home and goes to bed. I am not bound by her routine and she knows it.

                  There is more social pressure on men... You don't have to hold out for the perfect opinion or the best one-liner. Just shoot the shit. Be social, make eye contact, have a good time. Chances are, if you stop worrying about what everyone else in the room will think every time you open your mouth, you'll be more natural and likeable.

                  ... something unmasculine about male friendship There really isn't. If you believe this, stop. Man is a social animal. Make sure your existing friends know you appreciate them. Give gifts and advice regularly and with gusto. For instance, there is nothing "unmasculine" about helping a buddy move apartments. Nor is there anything "unmasculine" about paying for drinks when your friend's going through a tough time. My friends and I run together in the mornings, play music together in the evenings, we sit around drinking whisky and shooting the shit for hours some weekends. If you're having a good time, nobody's gonna point to you and say "look at those pussies". Most people will ignore your existence, some others will envy your group and strive to be part of it.

                  In General Get a hobby. Something you enjoy. Something social. If you enjoy stand-up, start writing and going to open mics. If you want to train in self-defense, pick up boxing or BJJ or any number of arts. If you want to get better at playing an instrument, take a group class at a local arts center.

                  Side Note Don't worry about coming home to "nothing". Come home to a book you really wanted to read. Come home to an evening alone with your guitar and a case of craft beer. Come home to a new recipe you've been meaning to try and make it. You can occupy yourself productively when there are no other people around. You don't have to be lonely just because you're alone.

                  [–]Endorsed ContributorRedPillDad 18 points19 points  (0 children)

                  Excellent reply, especially your message about enjoying solitude. A lot of women are terrified about being alone and will sustain shitty relationships to avoid such a scenario.

                  [–]MyRedAccount 3 points4 points  (0 children)

                  Men do not have an in-group preference

                  The reason women think we do is that when are being masculine and vocalizing it together it drives them away. This also applies to the male spaces being contaminated observation.

                  If you want to create a male space all you have to do is be male and vocalize with other males, and not let in anyone who is a pushover. Women will naturally congregate on the outskirts and the quality will depend on the males.

                  [–]TRPShill 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  friends are good, but if you have your shit together solitude is not bad

                  [–][deleted]  (3 children)

                  [deleted]

                  [–]nomorelulu 10 points11 points  (0 children)

                  Oh God, I always find it pathetic when a guy's behaviour completely changes once a girl is in the room. It's disgusting.

                  [–]kutwijf 2 points3 points  (1 child)

                  Hard to do that when society puts it on a pedestal.

                  [–]TheAureate 31 points32 points  (2 children)

                  There’s an old quote that goes, “Blood is thicker than water.”

                  What the hell is water?

                  The real quote is, “The blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb.”

                  The family that you choose throughout your life, not the family you happen to be born into, is the family that will be there for you in your darkest times. The brothers and sisters you pick up along your journey will be held together through a bond of camaraderie stronger than any glue imaginable.

                  How to we find and build these relationships though?

                  Friendship is forged through shared experience.

                  The most efficient way to find people to join your tribe is to join a group, sport, or club.

                  Naturally, you will gravitate towards a few people in the group that you like most. – Simply spend time with them during the club meetings. Get to know them.

                  Once you know these people, invite them to something else you’re doing, just like in the dating video. This gives you the authority of leadership, and it provides an easy transition to the friendship mindset instead of the group mindset.

                  During that time, focus on create memories. Focus entirely on making fun and getting to know them more in depth. Ask them about their dreams, their fears, what drives them and what makes them feel alive.

                  These memories solidify the foundation of friendship, which can be built upon later by simply, “hanging out”.

                  This will also contribute to developing yourself. Choose something you want to be better at, and surround yourself with people that are better than you in this area. Like equilibrium, being around them will naturally bring you to their level. Through giving you and example to work towards, great advice, and encouragement.

                  “A real friend will push you to become the best you can be; and if they find themselves lacking in the endeavor, they will embark on the experience with you.” – u/Asoka11111

                  Notice People

                  Taking the time to give a genuinely heartfelt compliment about something specific I appreciate about a person has earned me some of the most loyal friends I have to date.

                  When giving a good compliment, don’t comment on something about a person. Compliment something they have DONE. Compliment their good style, or a skill they’ve worked hard to develop.

                  These compliments naturally turn into conversations about what you had complimented; which can easily be turned into a follow up adventure in town.

                  Be Kind

                  Kind people give to others, especially their friends, out of nothing but love. No expectations.

                  Friends provide for each other. There is no keeping track of who gives what to who. If you are a friend of mine, I will always have your back as much as I am able.

                  Life is a two-way transaction. You need to GIVE in order to GET.

                  Giving to your friends almost always ensures that if you are in need, they will have your back as well.

                  Go Conquer, my friends

                  – B

                  [–]MelodyMyst 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                  Peace, unto you, and those you gather.

                  [–]MyLittleAtomBomb 12 points13 points  (0 children)

                  You can't cold-approach for male friendship without looking on some level like you want to suck his cock. Pretend your life is a movie. Go about your business and chase what fulfills you. Along the way people will enter your life naturally due to a shared common interest. That's the basis of friendship.

                  I'm big into football so I joined a local flag league. Took the initiative and invited a bunch of guys out to a bar to watch the local NFL team play. Got their numbers and BAM, social life.

                  [–][deleted]  (3 children)

                  [deleted]

                  [–]neanderthalensis 5 points6 points  (2 children)

                  As a footnote though it's important to note that your life's journey is a solitary one. Like it or not you were alone coming into this world and you will leave it alone too, so you better be happy with who you are. Work on that and the rest should fall into place.

                  There's something poetic and vaguely beautiful about your final sentence.

                  [–][deleted]  (1 child)

                  [deleted]

                    [–]wakocid 11 points12 points  (0 children)

                    I'm 57. my closest friends are from college. But we all live in different states and still get together now and then. You will make and lose friends all your life. Jobs, moving, marriage, kids, no kids, no wife, etc. No big deal. You must be happy with yourself and then everything else is easy. I got married, made new friends, had kids, get different friends. Kids grow up, lose friends. On and on. I am still married, kids both out of the house now. I am an outdoors guy, hunting, ATV's etc. I do all of it on my own now. Best time of my life. I still keep in touch with the college buddies, but even they could not hang with me. They think I am crazy. btw, always been RP, we just called it "being a man". Make everyday a "challenge" and push yourself. If you want to catch what I do now, here's my youtube channel....https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBWledZdKE1_IRJgVhpLfOA

                    [–]rouge_rain17 10 points11 points  (1 child)

                    • Married men/men in LTR are discouraged from outside friendships. And isn't that fucked up?

                    You know what is said one of the identifiers of a manipulative man is? He isolates his girl from her friends.

                    Think about it

                    [–]lawrencewidman 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                    Yeah my wife did that shit to me. Its fucked up.

                    [–]Skedoolie 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                    How about stop using technology so much? Samy Kamkar (famous hacker) was banned from using computers for a year(?) after he hacked MySpace back in the day. In an interview with Tim Ferriss, he said how this taught him to be social and connect with people because he had nothing better to do.

                    [–]Endorsed ContributorMarsupian 5 points6 points  (0 children)

                    Maintaining a social circle takes work. Say no to your preferred method of procrastination and make plans.

                    Also participate in activities and environments where male bonding comes easy. It's a lot less work to maintain a "superficial" social network of collegues, teammates and club members. This both gives you more social reach and options as well give the opportunity of developing real friendship.

                    Where a lot of men run into problems is when they leave those superficial circles but don't put in the effort to maintain some friendships and don't put effort into finding new circles.

                    Also realise that you only feasibly have room for around 5 deep relationships. Make choices, be part of networks and don't get complacent.

                    [–]LasherDeviance 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                    It can be really hard when you don't give a shit about sports as well.

                    [–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours 27 points28 points  (5 children)

                    I come home to three dogs, two huskies and a husky lab mix. I have muscle cars in the driveway, live in the woods, and I am free to do as I please. Most people annoy me, they lack the intelligence required to be enjoyable for company.

                    I do not come home to nothing, I have a life I created and crafted with a purpose in mind. A bitch and some hangers on are not part of the purpose.

                    [–]lookitsmeyay 5 points6 points  (1 child)

                    You are living the dream.

                    This is what I want one day. Just me, some dogs, some books, a piano, and a garden. Friends as a luxury, not a necessity.

                    [–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                    I came to terms with being on my own years ago, it's extremely rare that I met people I want to keep in my life, and I had none until I was 16 anyway. This is who I am, most can't live like I do.

                    [–]hiphoprising 4 points5 points  (2 children)

                    Most people annoy me, they lack the intelligence required to be enjoyable for company.

                    Really?

                    [–]freenglower 5 points6 points  (3 children)

                    It's cool that you could get out of your this misconception that male friendships are unmasculine. I'm a gay guy and it's a lot harder for us to make friendships with straight guys, even thought it's something that i would really like - having a bro to talk about stuff. Hell, i'd probably even end up helping my bros to get girls. I think you have to try to bond with people and after a while you will end up finding what you look for, you just need to find guys that are on the same page as you - confident, smart people seeking a bro to share things with.

                    [–]CokaCokaCaw 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                    This. I'm a straight guy with a best friend that happens to be gay.

                    [–]BlueMondaze 3 points4 points  (0 children)

                    Men like to do things of value, or relax and do what pleases them. So they're either going to find them doing something productive together if it calls for it, it just chilling by themselves when they want to. You're not going to find many groups of men that just want to "go out" to be social. If you have hobbies you can share them with other men. If you don't have hobbies don't expect anyone to want to come over and wallow in your misery together.

                    "Women don't feel social pressure" Lol. Women drown themselves in social pressure. Everyone feels it. Stop whining.

                    [–]thrwwy425 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                    Some people in this thread are advocating against approaching men for fear of coming off as homo. I say that's the same thing as saying not to approach women for fear of being creepy. I've literally never had a dude strike up a conversation with me and thought, "Dude, wtf? U gay bro?" and anyone that would have that reaction has some personal issues they need to work out.

                    There is a social barrier to overcome in speaking to any stranger. Overcome it. A friend of mine is introverted, monotone, and has 0 luck with the ladies, but he has a bunch of friends because he goes to a bunch of shows and can strike up a conversation with anyone about music. Then they swap numbers and become show buddies. Then real buddies.

                    One of the reasons women make friends easily is because the cornerstone of their relationship is emotional validation. So they can enjoy each other's company simply by going out for coffee and talking. Men need something to do in order to enjoy each other. Going on a walk or sitting and talking is almost always boring for almost all men. In male friendships, it's not enough to simply be interesting, you have to find interesting things to do.

                    [–]Endorsed ContributorThotwrecker 5 points6 points  (0 children)

                    Most men fulfill their inherent social programming by social media, multiplayer gaming / gaming communities, reddit, and chatting / acquantainces at work. None of these people are really and truly your friend - yeah, yeah I know your old guildie from WoW and you go way back, but seriously, is he the dude who's going to let you crash if something happens and you need a hand? No, these are all illusory friendships.

                    They are social kickbacks and social behavior, sure, but they are BP alternatives, like porn is to sex. And as a result, you think you are socially fulfilled, but in reality, you're not building your network and getting better at connecting people.

                    It's fine to be a lone wolf if you want that. I believe every man should go lone wolf for a while to figure himself out and what he wants out of life, and minimize the distractions and BS coming in from friends. Then you realize who your real friends are and who is just draining your focus.

                    But ultimately having a group of friends helps you. Despite the innate shittiness and BPness of people, they still can do a lot for you.

                    The first step to getting it is to dehamster yourself. Your steam friends aren't friends. Your guildies aren't friends. The people you used to know and just follow on FB arent friends. Your twitter followers aren't friends, your favorite posters here aren't friends, the people you work with aren't friends, and you are only going to get friends if you go out and get it.

                    Once you get that mentality, it's very easy for guys to make friends. Show up, don't be a jackass, just have fun and be yourself (assuming yourself doesn't suck) and most guys won't be opposed to you being around. Invite guys to do cool shit with you - ie if you are throwing a party, ask a few guys to come from different social circles, and let them know it's cool if they want to bring their friends. Get to know their friends. Help introduce them to new people so they get to make friends. Be the bridge.

                    But most people don't even try because they are content enough with having fake friends in the form of social media / gaming.

                    [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (2 children)

                    I recommend joining a jiu jitsu gym or some other martial art. My gym is mostly men and has very few women. I get along great with everyone and we grab beers occasionally after we train. You also see these people a couple of times a week so you have people to talk to on a consistent basis.

                    [–]MachoMonk 4 points5 points  (1 child)

                    rugby is a great sport. I play rugby with my drinking team sometimes

                    [–]GregariousWolf 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                    I went to the fights and a hockey game broke out.

                    [–]ThrowyMcGruder 3 points4 points  (0 children)

                    there is something unmasculine about male friendships. You'll notice there is A LOT of social conditioning in this direction;

                    It's actually a bit amazing how quick women are to push this, even when it doesn't directly have anything to do with them.

                    I tend to watch a lot of quiz shows and, over the years, having had different girlfriends and plates, pretty much all of them roll their eyes at any pair of guys that appear on a doubles quiz show and introduce themselves as friends.

                    "Gay.", is what they say every time, in a derisive way.

                    These same women who fight for equal rights, gay marriage and do their damnedest to latch on to any gay guy as some kind of trophy friend. It has nothing to do with being gay at all.

                    It's about mocking straight guys who do things without women and it's such a natural instinct that the tiniest bit of logic will have them back-tracking in an "I'm not homophobic" kind of way.

                    But they just can't help it.

                    Even a pair of fity year-old, bearded, pot-bellied, beer-swilling, football-watching, darts-playing, mechanics, with wives and kids, who have been friends since school don't escape their ire.

                    Like dangling a string in front of a cat, they just have to take a swipe.

                    [–]Yogotron 3 points4 points  (0 children)

                    I'm sure this will get buried, but there seems to be some basic facts not being mentioned when we talk about "making friends" or "connecting with people".

                    The root of a relationship is ones ability to relate to one another. I believe success in this area is based off an old ability often lost in boys this day in age.

                    The ability to be honest. Honest with yourself on who you are and what you like. A man in the path to self actualization.

                    And honest with the person you're trying to relate to. Don't join a sport of you hate it. Don't join a chess club to prove something to yourself or others. To Be honest in who you are and what you do with others is the only sure way to invite the people in your life that are worth keeping around.

                    Don't be afraid to offend people with the truth, if they can't handle it they're not your buddy. Don't be afraid to be yourself. Lying to those around you sucks but lying to yourself is just abuse.

                    [–]princepeanutbutter 10 points11 points  (1 child)

                    I dont often see a lot about not having friends and being ok with it. My job is very social and between that and dating I want alone time. Also with men in general its hard to find someone who isnt a beta loser or trying to AMOG you. Overall I find it not worth the effort.

                    Activity friends are good

                    [–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (0 children)

                    its hard to find someone who isnt a beta loser

                    Jesus this so much, as a student of software-development i find it fucking impossible to find classmates who are not videogame/anime beta suck-ups.

                    [–]onepill_twopill 12 points13 points  (0 children)

                    itt: legit answers plus some freemason recruiters

                    [–][deleted]  (3 children)

                    [deleted]

                    [–]Fuck_shadow_bans 5 points6 points  (2 children)

                    Well that a good first step to meet other guys worth having a friendship with, but the problem is that there are very few actual "groups" of guys that hang out, and almost all of those were formed years ago, usually in college.

                    I did BJJ for a couple months and I noticed all the long time guys knew a lot about each other and genuinely were happy to see each other and to know what was going on in each other's lives, but I wouldn't call them friends. None of them even spent time outside of class together. None of them called each other on the weekend to go do some thing outside of BJJ together. Et cetera.

                    There is clearly stuff you have to do even beyond that to have "friends" the same way you did when you were younger.

                    [–]reigorius 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                    Yeah. There is something odd when you grow up. When you were young, you could make friends much more easily than today. My best summerbreak was with a group of friends from a summerjob. The group split after each of us left for a different destination: uni, college, other work.

                    [–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                    So, with that said, can we brain storm how a man post-college, or over 30, can make new friends?

                    Do what you love, work on improving yourself. Then you meet those who are also doing similar. Be non-needy and be a person of value, and people will be drawn to you. Accept people as they are, don't rush it, but do lead.

                    OP's post is totally true, and this applies all men. So other men need friendship, you need friendship, but you're the guy who knows how to make it happen. Be loyal, be funny, be a dick, be masculine, and of course: lead and escalate.

                    That means inviting people out, sharing activities, hosting parties, etc. You know - the shit you like other people to do but always make excuses not to do.

                    It's honestly pretty easy and if you're a decent guy, you'll get decent friends.

                    The formula is simply this:

                    • find someway somehow somewhere to be around other people doing something you enjoy or self-improvement (not bar, gym, café. Could be a club, sport, activity. Avoid social clubs (ie no core activity) which generally contain people unable to make friends elsewhere for very good reason.)
                    • be completely non-needy and as indifferent as possible to what others think of you. This sets you free of social constraint and makes you more productive in doing what you want and getting what you want.
                    • be a bit sociable and outgoing, but it's not particularly necessary
                    • be a person of value
                    • be whatever you want to be and stand for whatever you want to stand for. (This is not "be yourself", this is "do what you want to do")
                    • don't try any sort of social manipulation (guys don't understand it, but can tell something is wrong). It's not necessary nor beneficial with men you want to be friends with.
                    • express yourself, don't try to create an impression in others. The difference here is the difference between charming as hell and needy as fuck.
                    • escalate / invite / host
                    • spend quality time with people when the chance arises

                    Note that none of this is ever "trying to make friends" which generally looks needy. This is "being friends and making stuff happen".

                    [–][deleted]  (1 child)

                    [deleted]

                    [–]Chad_Thundercock69 2 points3 points  (3 children)

                    I've said this many times on this sub and I'll say it again, check out your local pua lair. (pua = pickup artist) Depending on it's size you'll see different groups emerge.

                    Some groups have the noobs, some groups have the weird people and some groups have the cool people. But everyone there is there to improve their skills with women, and many also have a strong focus on self-improvement in general.

                    Feels good to approach a girl, have to go terribly wrong and not have to worry about your friends teasing/tormenting you the entire night for it. Also you'll feel like approaching 10+ girls a night because it'll be normalised as everyone else is doing it as well.

                    THIS SHIT CHANGED MY LIFE

                    [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                    What is a Pick-up artist lair? And what do you do together other than sarging for girls?

                    [–]Realworld 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                    I have no natural social skills. By experience, I've found it's effortless to make new friends. Too easy and too many, in fact.

                    If a stranger is standing within conversational distance distance of you, they've already subconsciously decided you're safe. Standing sideways to them, glance at them and ask anything (in context of where you are) and listen to their response. If they continue talking, turn more towards them, and ask a couple more questions and listen to what they say. A significant number will keep talking and soon suggest another activity you might be interested in. If you indicate interest, they'll invite you along.

                    This works everywhere in the world. If you're open to it, you'll experience all kinds of adventures with your own personal and knowledgeable guide.

                    [–]stunningandbrave 4 points5 points  (2 children)

                    If you can play an instrument, join a band.

                    Fuck it. Why not?

                    You don't have to be the next Nirvana, you're supposed to have something to look forward to.

                    Play metal or be a mariachi band, it doesn't matter, just have fun.

                    [–]tallwheel 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                    I joined one very recently. In fact, we have only practiced once so far, have scheduled our second practice, and are still looking for a drummer and singer. It remains to be seen what kind of friendships will be made, but so far I'd say practicing is a lot of time and work! I'm having trouble fitting it into my schedule between my other obligations and hobbies.

                    Anyway, though I can't report much at this early stage, hoping it turns out for the best.

                    [–]EleriumAvenger 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                    Recently met a marine veteran who was working on capital hill. He talked about his fly fishing club and how it has been come so much more. They brew beer, plan hikes, and collectively get in their bro time. The biggest problem his group faces is finding men whom you would want to bro out with. Due to the betaization of most men their are not enough leaders to form groups and those with the leadership skills to form said groups have little to gain for forming them. The best solution is to have/learn social hobbies that are an interest shared with men in their 20's through retirement age.

                    [–]nuesuh 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                    No one calls you on the phone? Then I guess you have time to do shit.. And, other guys also do shit. You can do that shit together.

                    A sport, a hobby, a club. Pleanty of guys in all ages to bond with. Friends you haven't meet yet.

                    [–]Ojisan1 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                    Get a hobby, and join a local group (such as a meetup) for that hobby. Last year I got into motorcycling, and have met some good people that way.

                    [–]slimcoat 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                    I invite a bunch of guys over for poker and board games once a week. It works for me.

                    Find a hobby, invite men to it.

                    [–][deleted]  (1 child)

                    [deleted]

                    [–]metalfan20 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                    I might get down votes for this but so be it. I recently moved to a new state. I knew nobody besides extended family. So I decided to expirament with Craig's list. I have met about 3 guys through there and we have all hit off pretty well. Turns out we have the same interests. They were also very receptive of Red Pill talk. I don't necessarily seen this as something that will work 100% of the time but so far it's worked for me.

                    However I agree with a lot of the other guys on here. Develop your hobbies or join some meet ups.

                    [–]Eugenics2015 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                    The problem is that most men are taught to place all their emotional needs in the hands of women. It hasn't always been this way.

                    Homophobia killed male friendship.

                    http://www.artofmanliness.com/2008/08/24/the-history-and-nature-of-man-friendships/

                    [–]yomo86 4 points5 points  (6 children)

                    I like to add an exclusion: Never under pain of death look for male friends within the scope of your profession with the further exception of making friends with a single individual.

                    For instance if you are a doctor never try to make friends at the christmas party organization team of the hospital. Most males use the profession as a mean to an end to get laid aka being the BB. The white knights and betas will be prevelant.

                    I bought an old 1987 motorcycle, a lot of shit is broken on this bike but there is a dedicated group of men in my town dealing together concerning issues with their bikes.

                    [–]HappyScribe 3 points4 points  (3 children)

                    Some of my best friends work in the same profession. Often we'll hang out together and talk about the industry, about the problems we have and help each other out... I've lent and borrowed equipment, taken advice, used their holiday homes. Also, we're not direct competitors, but there's a certain amount of competitiveness which is pretty healthy. It's as near to a mastermind group as I'm likely to get.

                    [–]yomo86 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                    I know what you are saying. However, more and more men are actually girls and having people around me who have a real chance of fucking with my professionel life just for pussy... I don't know man.

                    [–]HappyScribe 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                    Maybe it's different when you're older. Most of my friends have steady LTRs and are as aggressive as fuck about excellence in their industry. Maybe you just need to hang out with guys older than your peer group?

                    [–]Purecorrupt 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                    You never want to give all your "real thoughts" away to someone who's drinking too much of the kool-aid.

                    I would agree to not try and become actual friends with everyone at work, but I think you are missing out on potential allies if you do not at least come off as friendly. You never know when you'll need one.

                    [–]yomo86 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                    Damn you are right. Allies. But not the RP definition of friend a I-would-lie-under-oath-for-you-friend.

                    [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children)

                    Right there with you. It's very troubling.

                    I feel like I've alienated everyone I know now that I've swallowed the red pill.

                    My problem is clear though. I've tried to make others see our point of view here; as I've always thought of myself as a leader. But they don't want to hear the truth or our version of it. They want to live in their perfect little world, blind and ignorant to the harsh realities we men today face.

                    In order to gain acceptance into other cliques of men, I have had to adapt and be "chameleon" so to speak. It's not fun and I almost prefer the solitude to that life.

                    [–]Endorsed ContributorMarsupian 10 points11 points  (2 children)

                    Dude just don't preach. I thought keeping this shit for yourself was rule #1. Show through your actions not your words and for fucks sake never use the lingo.

                    [–]hailhailhailandkill 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                    Q: Cui bono?

                    A: Already or to-be pedestialized females. Another zone to dominate. Less outer interaction and more time & attention assigned to them. Seawater effect, the more you feed the more they get thirsty!

                    As for the brain storm; socialities like football games (sports in general), hubble-bubble culture, gym laddism, arranging reunions with former co-eds etc seem fine. Especially some married men underestimate social life by getting deceived that their unicorn wives can fill all the gaps.

                    [–]kalo_asmi 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                    Join a club. Bikers, golf, anything that interests you.

                    [–]Hans_Holo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                    Host a regular poker night (every other week is perfect). Keep the buy-in very cheap. The regularity allows people to set SO's expectations well ahead of time, and no one feels pressure to attend every time. The low buy-in means it stays friendly.

                    Men take a long time to warm up. Getting in close proximity and some friendly competition eventually breaks down the barriers.

                    [–][deleted]  (1 child)

                    [deleted]

                    [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                    Old friends are better than new friends, that a place to start. After that the activities you do, especially hard ones that women cant tolerate usually is a good place to make friends. Army training, Boxing, fight camps, construction. I have to admit it is difficult to maintain good friends as you say they are not rewarded to keep friendships and men dont have a culture of keeping friends typically. Lastly I think as your social game improves you find cooler people, by being cool. That is if you have value, people will want to hang out with you. That being said, it is very hard to become valuable to people at large, but there is no harm in trying to become the man.

                    [–]KneeDeep185 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                    I do sports that my LTR is generally intimidated by, and therefore has no interest in joining. Namely, skiing and downhill mountain biking, and also table tennis. Sports are a great excuse to be gone and do your own thing for half a day or a random weeknight (table tennis), and it's pretty easy to find a guy friend who wants to join. When you're doing sports you don't have to share intimate details about your life if you don't want to, you keep your hands busy, and you feel a lot better after. Plus when you get better, you become more competitive and it feels like you're actually building something/working toward something.

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