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Field ReportSaid No Thanks to the Starfish last night (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by [deleted]

I posted a FR at MRP and thought there were some men here in LTRs who may want to read it. As always, any advice, suggestions, insights are welcome

It's been many months, maybe a year since my wife said no to sex. Rarely has she been fucking me out of "obligation". As last night proves, nothing is permanent. A man can never relax, no matter how tempting.

She insisted on a back massage first. Complained she was tired. I granted the massage but let my hands roam and then she would pull away and tell me she needed more back rub. When she did lie on her back she had a nasty look on her face as she really was more interested in herself then pleasing me.

So I rolled over, put my clothes on, and told her I changed my mind and didn't want to have sex with her after all.

She lit into me " I'm tired (yea right), I didn't go to gym like YOU did, I needed more foreplay and when you can't have what you want when you want it and get so ANGRY..."

Side note----I frequently am shit tested and am accused of being angry when I know I'm ice cold and in frame. Or when I put my foot down then I am told I am "arguing". Both cases are untrue. My wife hamsters her inability to "get what she wants" with me as being an MAD and ARGUMENTATIVE person.

Truth is we haven't had an actual argument in months. TRP taught me that-- Arguing with a woman is Bluebeta behavior. I've been much more on the indifferent side than upset/angry. I see these accusations as a provocation. She wants me to lose temper so she has "something to work with".

anyway back to last night..

I told her I wasn't angry at all. Said "your not turning me on. I don't want to have sex with you. Maybe some other time" Within two minutes of her watching tv and waiting for me to say or do something (I flipped open laptop to espn.com) she asked if we "could cuddle".

Said sure. I matched her new disposition with a cheery, happy attitude of my own. Then I ripped off her PJs and fucked her hard for ten mins. ZERO foreplay She was moaning and running hands all over me. Best sex in a month.

Don't ever whine, beg, plead,argue for sex. It will achieve nothing


[–]1 Endorsed Contributormordanus 81 points82 points  (1 child)

your not turning me on. I don't want to have sex with you. Maybe some other time

I actually cheered out loud at this. Good job here man. My one suggestion to you and other men in this situation is this.

If your woman won't validate you then you need to stop validating her.

If she isn't fucking you with passion in her eyes then you need to stop making her feel wanted. No more gifts or back rubs or hugs or listening to her long ass stories. If she is getting everything she wants from you without obligation then why should she put out? This is the step that finally made my wife realize how fucking lonely it is to be married and have your spouse not give a shit about you.

Great post man. I'm very glad things are starting to turn around for you. Be careful here because the next bit is a bit of trial and error. You start to get really grateful because she is showing more passion so you tend to go back to blue pill mentality and she goes back to drying up.

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Great suggestion. Regulating my attention and permanent slight dread are keys to maintaining the LTR on my terms in RP manner

[–][deleted] 139 points140 points  (17 children)

Lol, my mom actually does the same thing when she's not getting her way. Tries to accuse the other person of being argumentative and angry, when it's clear they are cool as a cucumber. Such a desperate and childish ploy.

Well done on holding frame. You killed it.

[–][deleted]  (3 children)

[deleted]

    [–]Newdist2 24 points25 points  (2 children)

    But yeah, accusing to provoke - it's a common theme.

    Some men do this too. It's a bitch move regardless.

    [–]redconfetti 24 points25 points  (0 children)

    People often project their own state or malfunction onto other people in an attempt to deny that in themselves.

    It's a defense mechanism - psychological projection

    [–]Gadnuk_ 12 points13 points  (0 children)

    I believe this all comes down to the victim mentality. If it weren't so socially unacceptable to be angry with a woman it wouldn't make men so reactive upon hearing that shit. It also draws support from anyone uninvolved to defend the woman (victim) from the 'angry and aggressive man.' The other thing this does is frame you (angry, aggressive) as emotional and irrational in contrast to her relative calm and logic. If you show even mild frustration when a woman pulls this shit you've already lost by entering her frame and confirming her perception of events.

    [–]Endorsed ContributorMentORPHEUS 8 points9 points  (2 children)

    I see it spouted by many women. Disagree with her = "You're just being negative."

    Discount her feelz like this? Long tirade, "Don't you DARE try to invalidate my feelings!"

    My erstwhile best friend's wife in a nutshell.

    [–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (1 child)

    Have any opinion whatsoever that she doesn't like, disagree with her, or say no to her "Ugh, you're such an ASSHOLE."

    [–]ligerzero459 7 points8 points  (0 children)

    To a woman, calling someone an asshole doesn't mean they're actually being a dick. It simply means that they aren't doing what the woman wants them to do.

    [–]RedPill115 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    Lol, my mom actually does the same thing when she's not getting her way. Tries to accuse the other person of being argumentative and angry, when it's clear they are cool as a cucumber. Such a desperate and childish ploy.

    I realized a couple of years ago that this is exactly what 80-90% of feminist articles are.

    They feel that they are entitled to be treated a certain way and get things from you, they accuse you of being "entitled". They feel that because of their gender and status they should get certain privileges, so they accuse you of being "privileged". They are actively part of a group trying to get anyone of their gender more power and take it away from the other gender, so they accuse men of doing the same thing.

    I had realized that's what was happening for a while, but this really nails it for where it comes from.

    [–]krakosia 3 points4 points  (1 child)

    The most responsible teenager in the house - the wife

    [–]strategos_autokrator 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    My wife does this too. It took me a long time to internalize that when she started accusing me of being defensive or angry, it was just her changing tactics because my frame WAS cutting through the bullshit, so all I had to do was stay on course, keep doing the same thing, ignore her tactical change.

    [–]Kolbykilla 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    Lol same here. I've held frame since I was an early teenager with my mom (before I even knew what the fuck holding frame even was) and it frustrated her to no end. Eventually she just stopped and our relationship is much better now. Guess I was always a natural haha.

    [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Rip off her PJ'S and fuck the shit out of her next time she tries that shit.

    [–]Evileddie13 286 points287 points  (7 children)

    Well played. Women are fucking nuts.

    [–]TRP VanguardHumanSockPuppet 144 points145 points  (4 children)

    On the contrary, women's method for testing you is beautifully subtle, disguised in pretense.

    Of course, all the credit goes to Mother Nature, Our Lady of AWALT.

    We all know women can't sustain rationality long enough to come up with such an elegant empirical test on their own.

    [–][deleted] 89 points90 points  (1 child)

    If I asked her version about last night it would involve me "coming to my senses" as all she would recall is how she felt

    [–]foldpak111 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    Beta's do this just as much due to the feminization of America

    [–]RedPillProphet 12 points13 points  (0 children)

    We all know women can't sustain rationality long enough to come up with such an elegant empirical test on their own.

    Well said. It is a purely involuntary emotion driven procedure. The can't even grasp what they do much less consciously do it.

    [–]1Halfjor 6 points7 points  (0 children)

    I admire it now that it never causes me problems. Sometimes social dynamics and watching how women work is just plain interesting.

    It's crazy how different men and women are.

    [–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (0 children)

    Women are like children, internalize it. She already has the toy so she isn't interested in playing with it. But as soon as he grabs the toy and walks away with it she's pretty much begging for it.

    [–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 34 points35 points  (17 children)

    I frequently am shit tested and am accused of being angry

    Be very careful - I've had exactly this behaviour, from someone with very deep seated anger that she permanently projected onto me and the relationship. Eventually dumped her because she couldn't stop being rude to me.

    Good work on the freezeout, and hilariously zero foreplay sex - proving once again the foreplay myth (ie it's just a way to get beta attention and play "make him wait" on a short timeline).

    [–]drunkandstoned 12 points13 points  (13 children)

    proving once again the foreplay myth (ie it's just a way to get beta attention and play "make him wait" on a short timeline)

    I wouldn't say it's a myth per se, just foreplay has no use in mediocre sex. When she is cumming 4+ times per session making one of those happen during foreplay can add some nice variety.

    [–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 1 point2 points  (7 children)

    [–]drunkandstoned 9 points10 points  (2 children)

    I thought the "scientific" consensus was that choreplay was the new foreplay?

    Don't pay attention to scientific studies about sex that don't involve brain MRIs

    [–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 6 points7 points  (1 child)

    choreplay = less sex. Been discussed ad infinitum on here.

    Reason: because you are no longer a man.

    [–]rpscrote 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    thats the point he's making broski

    [–][deleted]  (3 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]Massiveshitlord 12 points13 points  (2 children)

      Seriously. If you have a bigger than average dick, good luck going with no foreplay.

      [–]drunkandstoned 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      Read the sex god method, the way you look at her and throw her on the bed can be all the foreplay you need (not that you shouldn't sometimes use extended foreplay too, variety is key)

      [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      Yeah it's a fucking chore getting blood off the sheets.

      [–]flexiblehold 8 points9 points  (1 child)

      Foreplay is essential, what we need is a redefinition of foreplay. It's not folding into a woman's frame and demands of back rubs, it's breaking rapport with her by withholding sex for her, creating dread, having a strong frame. OP didn't skip foreplay, he simply applied the effective kind.

      [–]rpscrote 4 points5 points  (0 children)

      foreplay for women can be literally anything which establishes alpha frame.

      [–]TRP Vanguard: "Dark Triad Expert"IllimitableMan 111 points112 points  (47 children)

      Side note----I frequently am shit tested and am accused of being angry when I know I'm ice cold and in frame.

      Your girl's a gaslighter, wonderful.

      My wife hamsters her inability to "get what she wants" with me as being an MAD and ARGUMENTATIVE person.

      I couldn't be married to a bitch like that. Not submissive enough, too much of a cunt.

      Arguing with a woman is Bluebeta behavior

      Arguing with a woman is like discussing quantum mechanics with a dog. The dog just wants to be fed like the woman just wants her own way, she doesn't give a shit about the logical merits and demerits of an argument, just getting her own way. It's Machiavellianism and feels over logic in your arguments:

      http://illimitablemen.com/2015/02/08/machiavellian-thinking-vs-conventional-logic/

      http://illimitablemen.com/2014/03/09/how-women-argue/ (need to re-write this but you'll get the jist)

      I see these accusations as a provocation. She wants me to lose temper so she has "something to work with".

      You are correct, she wants you to get angry so you can be the bad guy and she can use your own emotions against you. Women love doing this - confusing cause and effect. You get angry because she's being shitty to you - but she says she's being shitty because you got angry. Then naturally it all becomes about how you got angry, so she can divert scrutiny from herself and focus all the energy/judgement on your behaviour; usually this concludes with her guilt-tripping you into making concessions. It also tells them "you care enough about them to get angry." Women are fucked up.

      Said "your not turning me on. I don't want to have sex with you. Maybe some other time"

      Womanese for: "You're turning me on, I want you to fuck me right now."

      Don't ever whine, beg, plead,argue for sex. It will achieve nothing

      The quickest way to become celibate.

      [–][deleted]  (19 children)

      [deleted]

        [–]TRP Vanguard: "Dark Triad Expert"IllimitableMan 8 points9 points  (7 children)

        It's an interesting idea, is it true? I can't say for certain. Looking at it like that is probably helpful to guys who cave under pressure easily. I can see how it would help alleviate social pressure when they think what the women is saying is coming from a place of insecurity/uncertainty rather than being the scathing fitness test that it is. I'm inclined to lean NO, simply because, when they issue these tests: they're not insecure enough. If it was a worry/inner concern - it'd be communicated more like one, rather than an overt challenge - which is how they tend to come across. There is effectively a disconnect in sentiment.

        Of course in some situations, a shit test could easily be a symptom of internal monologue/insecurity, I'm not completely closed to the idea - eg: in an LTR where the man has a lot of power. In a bar/club/carousel environment however? No, not really. She's testing because she wants tingles/you to prove dominance, not because she's having an internal chat with herself about her feelings for you. Women don't really process their feelings in fast-paced environments like bars and such, they just "go along with them" aka "it just happened."

        [–][deleted]  (6 children)

        [deleted]

          [–]TRP Vanguard: "Dark Triad Expert"IllimitableMan 4 points5 points  (2 children)

          I don't know, there's plenty of ways to look at them, but this internal monologue idea seems more intuitive to me than some of the others I've read.

          If it produces results for you by helping you understand where she's coming from, use it. Looks like training wheels to me, though. When you understand shit tests you recognise them for what they are off the bat. You don't have to engage in this exercise. I can't say I've ever tried this, so can't vouch for it. It's different from how I see shit tests anyway.

          EG: "buy me a drink" = "I'll see if he's a chump who values me more than himself."

          Sounds like you're trying to translate womanese, haha.

          [–][deleted]  (1 child)

          [deleted]

            [–]TRP Vanguard: "Dark Triad Expert"IllimitableMan 8 points9 points  (0 children)

            repurposing the dark tetrad concept to develop stereotypical extrovert traits. It's taking a while though.

            Good luck. All my best blog posts had the most time sunk into them, it's worth it.

            [–]foldpak111 1 point2 points  (2 children)

            The girls that liked me the most tested me more on my height. What she's basically saying is 'I'm okay with your height but are you?'

            [–]football1010 0 points1 point  (1 child)

            Odd the girls that like me the best never even bring it up. They never shit test in general, and the one time I brought up my height she said (hamstered) she never noticed.

            [–]foldpak111 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            One of us is delusional then, am not subtly suggesting it's you either lol. Maybe they are so infatuated with you that they don't notice and they just kinda like me.

            [–][deleted]  (5 children)

            [deleted]

              [–][deleted]  (1 child)

              [deleted]

                [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

                unconscious shit tests? can they BE more unpleasant to be around? if they didn't look good, we'd fucking hate them.

                [–][deleted]  (1 child)

                [deleted]

                  [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  Hm so most the things that piss us off as rational creatures come from their own lack of understanding of their own nature? that makes them more palatable, again they are like children in the sense they never have to evolve a personality or develop themselves because society CONSTANTLY tells them they're perfect snowflakes. so when you view them as children, it makes you less pissed off at them. thanks! you're right.

                  [–]deville05 0 points1 point  (3 children)

                  So what would be the response to "is he a player?"

                  [–][deleted]  (2 children)

                  [deleted]

                    [–]football1010 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                    Just throw her a smirk, look her dead in the eyes and wink at her. You don't even need to say a word.

                    [–]strategos_autokrator 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                    The way I maintain frame through most shit tests of my wife is simply to reframe them as she flirting with me. It is something I stole/borrowed from game used by PUAs. It works wonderfully, as it makes Amused Mastery very natural. Often I just ignore the shit test and without speaking, have sex with her, because I knew all alone this was her way "initiating sex" by testing how alpha I was.

                    We are both a lot happier now.

                    [–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

                    You are correct, she wants you to get angry so you can be the bad guy and she can use your own emotions against you. Women love doing this - confusing cause and effect. You get angry because she's being shitty to you - but she says she's being shitty because you got angry. Then naturally it all becomes about how you got angry, so she can divert scrutiny from herself and focus all the energy/judgement on your behaviour; usually this concludes with her guilt-tripping you into making concessions. It also tells them "you care enough about them to get angry." Women are fucked up.

                    IME they also do this to get justification for shit they want to do, are about to do, are currently doing or have done and want to make you the bad guy in the equation so they can hamster away any number of sins as lesser than the perceived infraction they drew out of you. This was one BP pattern that was very hard for me to recognize and break in the beginning.

                    [–]1Halfjor 5 points6 points  (0 children)

                    I couldn't be married to a bitch like that. Not submissive enough, too much of a cunt.

                    There's no problem with general shit tests. If anything I welcome it because it's an easy opportunity to differentiate yourself from other guys.

                    Gaslighting and constant shit tests in an LTR or marriage are fucked though. That is where you draw the line between normal behavior and a woman actually being a bitch. I'm not going to deal with being told I'm angry when I won't crumble. The worst thing you can do in that situation is actually get angry because of the gaslighting. You're only going to give her fuel.

                    Shit tests and general underhanded behavior? AWALT.

                    Gaslighting, overt manipulation, and bitchiness? NAWALT.

                    There's no reason to constantly have shit thrown in your face and be rewarded with peanuts. If I'm in an LTR and that starts happening, next. Marriage, all bets are off.

                    [–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (3 children)

                    All women shit test and gas light if you let them. This woman exactly like all the others. Now I have the keylogger to understand them and its like playing chess with that dog you mentioned

                    [–]TRP Vanguard: "Dark Triad Expert"IllimitableMan 3 points4 points  (2 children)

                    Now I have the keylogger to understand them

                    You're keylogging your wife? Any interesting insights?

                    [–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (1 child)

                    Ha...I meant the code to understanding her behavior.

                    [–]FattestRabbit 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                    The 'decoder ring', if you will.

                    [–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 5 points6 points  (0 children)

                    My wife hamsters her inability to "get what she wants" with me as being an MAD and ARGUMENTATIVE person.

                    I couldn't be married to a bitch like that. Not submissive enough, too much of a cunt.

                    Dated it. Ditched it. Totally agreed on "too much of a cunt".

                    Arguing with a woman is like discussing quantum mechanics with a dog.

                    hahaha fucking win.

                    [–]1jb_trp 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                    Side note----I frequently am shit tested and am accused of being angry when I know I'm ice cold and in frame.

                    I've had several prospective plates use this line when I leave after it's apparent I'm not getting sex. I'm always cool, calm, and just get dressed and leave. Is this an attempt at beta shaming?

                    [–]TRP Vanguard: "Dark Triad Expert"IllimitableMan 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                    It's an attempt to make you fall into her frame.

                    [–]krakosia 0 points1 point  (3 children)

                    TRP taught me that-- Arguing with a woman is Bluebeta behavior. I've been much more on the indifferent side than upset/angry.

                    Here's a question. OP mentions that you should be indifferent. How do we reconcile the need to train the woman to be more red pill-ish vs just letting her be and being indifferent, especially in a LTR.

                    [–]TRP Vanguard: "Dark Triad Expert"IllimitableMan 4 points5 points  (1 child)

                    How do we reconcile the need to train the woman to be more red pill-ish vs just letting her be and being indifferent, especially in a LTR.

                    You set the frame/do it on your own terms, rather than attempt to train her from a place of reaction. Dread game is an effective form of negative social conditioning/response to her shitty behaviour. When she opens up to being reasonable because of how dread has made her feel, then you can tell her to do things that "make your woman more RP." As their parents/society/religion don't teach them how to be good women anymore, it's a slow process, and you will get resistance/blow back/childish behaviour. You're teaching her the qualities a father didn't, effectively attempting to sophisticate a god damn grown woman. It's sad we've collectively reached this place where grown women are so immature we have to treat them like children to get them to act right.

                    [–]krakosia 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                    Will experiment with this approach. Thank you for the detailed reply.

                    [–]strategos_autokrator 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                    Don't try to train her. If you do, you give her a field of battle where to oppose you, and she has now the power to oppose you.

                    Be a train leaving the station. She can't stop it. She will scream and pull it but eventually will give up and decide to behave so she can be let in because you are leaving without her.

                    [–]__var 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                    Said "your not turning me on. I don't want to have sex with you. Maybe some other time"

                    Womanese for: "You're turning me on, I want you to fuck me right now."

                    Isn't the first quote what he said?

                    [–][deleted]  (1 child)

                    [deleted]

                      [–]TRP Vanguard: "Dark Triad Expert"IllimitableMan 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                      Go here:

                      http://illimitablemen.com/2014/12/14/the-shit-test-encyclopedia/

                      Scroll down to section 5 - passing shit tests.

                      I think pseudo-gaslight or ridicule reframe is good for that situation.

                      [–]Animea93 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                      It's probably not gaslighting. Immature people think if they are unhappy others must be too.

                      [–]nuesuh 11 points12 points  (2 children)

                      "Man is disturbed not by things, but by the views he takes of them."

                      -Epictetus

                      [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

                      It's been many months, maybe a year since my wife said no to sex. Rarely has she been fucking me out of "obligation". As last night proves, nothing is permanent. A man can never relax, no matter how tempting.

                      This is the main thing to take from this. You might think you've met a unicorn, but forever is a long time.

                      OP's wife is probably great by the standards of most women. He sounds like someone who used his due diligence when selecting a partner, yet he still has to deal with shit tests and nonsense.

                      If you do think a woman is LTR/marriage worthy, don't think that means you've won the lottery and you're different from everyone else. Don't ever let your guard down.

                      [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                      I chose so-so...I've had to improve myself and grow into a man to get the relationship right

                      [–]antariusz 11 points12 points  (3 children)

                      Do not ask for sex, do not trade for sex, do not negotiate for sex. Not if you want genuine desire. You either have sex or you don't. Real men don't have to ask if she's in the mood. Because she's always in the mood for a real man.

                      [–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (1 child)

                      Yup. Sex is important. Make it known a man needs it and will get it from you or some other bitch

                      [–]krakosia 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                      attraction isn't negotiable.

                      [–][deleted]  (19 children)

                      [deleted]

                      [–]TheRealMouseRat 4 points5 points  (13 children)

                      what is the name of MRP? I tried /r/mrp, but it was some spanish stuff.

                      [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children)

                      click my username and see the exact sub.. I post there frequently. Am actually endorsed (whatever that means)

                      [–]KenuR 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                      Or you could just link it here. I'm on mobile, so I can't easily see which subs you post in.

                      [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (2 children)

                      RP Men in LTRs (whether they found RP after marriage or actually decided to commit using RP methods) are welcome

                      BP men who tried therapy, communicating more, date nights etc... also welcome if they want to see what actually works

                      [–]BourneRedPill 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                      I like that I can go into MRP sub and get help from Red Pill guys. I'm in LTR of 8+ years and not married, yet my dynamic is similar to being married just without the contract.

                      [–]strategos_autokrator 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                      Yes, that is welcomed too. Anyone in a stable LTR is welcomed.

                      The focus has been more those that are transitioning to RP while in relationship, because that requires a renegotiation of terms that is very hard. We accept that "next" is an option always, but we try to figure out what can be done before hitting "next".

                      [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (5 children)

                      Ever watch Star Trek: First Contact?

                      In this movie the BORG collective goes back in time in attempt to change Earth's history. I'm sure everyone has seen it.

                      So defeating a woman's shit test is kind of like shooting the Borg. When you learn frame and how to defeat shit tests, the first few shots wrecks them, but they adapt and soon they just keep marching at you with their agenda/intent. You yourself must continue to fine tune your head until you get to a monk-like level of emotional control and zen-stoicism. I'm not talking about suppressing emotion, because while useful in the short term, in the long term the cork generally comes off the bottle eventually. I'm talking about getting to the root causes of what causes you difficulty and dealing with those individual issues preemptively, so you weather any and all incoming storms. The best shit tests always attack your insecurities, remember that. If you resolve your insecurities, you'll have to none to exploit. It sort of works like that.

                      You see, the stoneface aloof reaction only takes them off guard the first few times you deploy it, then they begin to drill deeper. They know you are adapting to their manipulations and begin to fine tune both their shit testing and their judgement of your reaction to their shit testing.

                      This is my wife. She's fucking smart. Too damn smart. With her there is no chess match, because the existence of the game itself is a failure of the shit test. This is what I get for marrying a woman with a STEM degree. Between the Borderline Personality Disorder of the first wife and now the near genius IQ of the second wife, I seem to have a habit of not making things easy for myself. Fortunately for me, my second wife does have the ability to feel compassion and is relatively sane, but she's still a woman - AWALT.

                      I have two options. Win by not playing the game (best strategy) or be slick enough to conceal that there is a game being played (I can pull this off, but its best not to go to the well on this often).

                      With OP, he obviously out-gamed his wife on the sex push-pull. From my read, I sense this is how it breaks down in OP's head. But, was he really gaming the push-pull? Or was he just finally expressing his true feelings on the subject?

                      Having to kiss his wife's ass and beg her for sex wrecked the mood for him. Doesn't it do that for every guy on here? Many of us in the past would have pushed through the unpleasant shit eating to get our nuts off, because we were fucking horny and didn't think there were other choices.

                      Now here's what I mean by not playing the game. ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS the best game to play is none at all. If you are relating what you are thinking and expressing how you feel with dead pan honesty, that's not gaming - that's being straight up about shit. If you have the sack to look your wife in the eye with all honesty and tell her "yeah this isn't doing it for me, maybe some other time" and then jump on some sports highlights, now its not you with the insecurity. If you try this shit and you lack the calmness of mind that abundance mentality brings, then you come off as rage quitting on a buttmad. That's a catastrophic shit test fail. In OP's case, he was genuinely noping and this revealed the wife's insecurity, which she satiated with a little extra passionate lovemaking. Win for OP. Will it always break down this way? No. In marriage, especially ones that are years old with children and mortgages, wifey often loses that insecurity. You can't levy shit with push-pull techniques for very long without the Borg adapting.

                      This is why every rationale for your behavior must have the weight of authenticity behind it - or else you lose the shit test. I've looked my wife stone-faced dead in the eye and shrugged when I got static and she's got the queued up response ready, "Well don't I deserve any attention? Maybe I want to be chased with a little attention. Maybe I want you to go down on me..." So the question wasn't whether or not we were going to have sex, it was who was going to be more of the giver in the act. I gave her the meh, this doesn't turn me on move and she came back with does it always have to be about you? which of course is a SHIT TEST. Fucking Borg collective adapting and shit.

                      So how does one overcome such a shit test? Give her what she wants, huehuehueh... I get a little aggressive, yank down her pants, throw her on the bed, stick my face in her pussy and bring her to orgasm in about 30 seconds. After that, the sex is everything I want. She's completely submissive and eager.

                      You see if I would have blown sex off in favor of the Internet, specifically after she threw the oral sex request out there, that would have given her the leverage she needs to be aggrieved. I'm not being fair. I'm selfish. Blah blah blah... It's not like she has to state those things. Its just a matter of attitude. Wives love being aggrieved, they believe it grants them "I get my way" points - which are additional shit tests. You want to be limiting shit test opportunities - not creating them. This all ties into the authenticity idea - the best game is no game. Remember, TRP isn't about destroying a woman's will, making her susceptible to manipulation and control. Its about self control, self improvement and proper self-valuation. If you are doing your due and keeping your side of the street clean, you will always have authenticity. If you have mastery over your own life and properly maintained SMV, then you will maintain a leadership role in your relationship. Wife knows that you are the point-man in both of your collective lifestyles. Yes, she may provide critical components to what's going on, but if she knows that "with you" is a hell of a lot better than "without you" that will go an eternity towards her having a positive attitude about you having a leadership role in the marriage.

                      [–][deleted]  (3 children)

                      [deleted]

                        [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

                        There is a HUGE difference between gaming bar whores and getting your wife to respect and desire you.

                        This can't be stated enough.

                        Gaming a bar whore is simple. Be attractive. Be cocky. Do some subtle negging. Defeat shit tests. Don't get over-eager on the "push", so your "pull" works. Etc... Etc... You're just looking for the hook-up (and generally so is she). Then its all about the game - the flashing of the eyes, projection of confidence, kino engagement - shit like that. These are PUA techniques. Getting into TRP - once you evolve into deeper levels of awareness, you realize that PUA techniques are the TRP 101 shit. The entry level stuff.

                        Marriages, LTRs, and even spinning plates are something different altogether. On here, some of us like to say that TRP is the revolutionary idea that women are people too - adult people with personal agency who have their individual flaws and self-interests. Now granted, there might be some players who's ability to spin bullshit is so next-level that they can sustain gaming women over long periods of time. Maybe they are so aesthetic that women don't give a shit what bullshit comes out of their mouths as long as they get the face time they want. These guys get away with doing whatever the fuck they want and the women in their lives follow them around like lost sheep. Not saying that doesn't exist - because it does - and I'm not going to lie that shit is rush when you have that - but for most of us God-like player powers are elusive and at the very least difficult to sustain over a couple of decades. One cannot get so lost in his arrogance that he forgets that the woman (or women) he's sharing his life with are adult people with brains in their heads who will eventually see through the bullshit after years' worth of exposure to it. When you run game and your game is exposed as bullshit - your game is shattered. The opposite of attraction happens.

                        Don't get me wrong, you can still deploy PUA techniques on wifey or GF - the cockiness - the eye flashing - subtle negging here and there to spice up the sexual excitement - but if you lack authentic real world game - if you don't have your shit together - if you are not the man you front out to be - then PUA flirtation is meaningless. IMO, having one's shit together includes creating and fortifying real, actual, authentic mental and emotional strength. That is the cornerstone to obliterating shit tests. It's also a necessary component to developing a feeling of mastery over one's life and personal happiness/fulfillment overall.

                        If you want your wife to feel the tingles and give you the good pussy years on down the line, then you need to have the alpha's level of physical maintenance, personal achievement, awareness level, ability to properly self-valuate and you need to be able to take care of business - be a provider, possess a high level stewardship of the home finances, be a good father (this one is forgotten in many TRP discussions IMO), etc...

                        This is a tall order to fill. Being a husband and father - doing it successfully to the point of personal fulfillment is hard - and you will not get the good pussy from wifey without that success. The deck is stacked against you on several levels.

                        In today's world, endeavoring to have a successful marriage and family is one of the most difficult and risky challenges a man can undertake. It is not for the faint of heart. It's the fucking crucible men are made or destroyed in. Navigating through life is difficult enough without marriage, children, wives, divorce... With it, its a mental mindfuck lockbox. Most men are challenged to make it through without getting obliterated financially and emotionally. Finding success and fulfillment in it is winning on super hard mode - and cannot happen without mental discipline and airtight personal authenticity.

                        [–][deleted]  (1 child)

                        [deleted]

                          [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                          Thanks brother. To me, this is the ideal to achieve.

                          I learned this through trial and error and also through applying the wisdom written into this sub and elsewhere.

                          [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                          incredible insights here. especially :

                          If you resolve your insecurities, you'll have to none to exploit. It sort of works like that.

                          months ago i have decided in my heart, soul, and brain that I dont need this marriage. It continues only because its now 'working'

                          there is no game. not anymore

                          [–]fuckingkike 6 points7 points  (7 children)

                          You declined sex, and then gave her back the power to decide when sex happens in exchange for having sex without foreplay this one time. Nice work.

                          [–]4delicioustreats 4 points5 points  (5 children)

                          Your comment comes across as sarcastic, but I'm too new to this community to tell for sure. Can you clarify your comment so we can learn?

                          [–]1aguy01 15 points16 points  (3 children)

                          H'es saying the guy was gave in too early and should have held off on having sex with her until she really freaked out and put effort into getting sex from him. All she did was ask to cuddle, then the guy put moves on her and she let him fuck. It may have been better to hold out until she decides to just start sucking his dick, or surprises him with lingerie or nude photos or something to show that she is putting more effort in.

                          Basically the guy said 'i need more effort' and she said 'okay, is simply letting you fuck me enough effort'? And the guy said yes. Maybe he could have gotten more effort from her, though.

                          [–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (1 child)

                          this is the type of feedback that I like

                          Perhaps I could have held out for "more"--I like the sound of Bjs and lingerie.

                          I kind of felt that continuing to hold out when she flipped to her sweet side could be seen as weak. butthurt. girls act like that...not men

                          Anyway--the sex was really good. I did get what I wanted but perhaps I could have taught her more of a lesson.

                          I guess if this comes up again soon then I'll know i need to pull away longer and harder

                          [–]1aguy01 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                          I agree, if this is an infrequent occurrence then you handled it well. If it was a dead bedroom then you would need more dread, but this was okay.

                          [–]RP-on-AF1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                          The second sentence is sarcasm.

                          [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                          Women always control sex. Its a mans job to make her want the sex

                          [–]foldpak111 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                          Wiener this happens, ask yourself, would she be 'too tired' for Channing Tatum?

                          Next.

                          [–]DanG3 1 point2 points  (2 children)

                          I tend to have a similar problem with my wife, and I have also pulled out and said, "nevermind" when she starfished. Her reaction was the same as the OP's wife.

                          My hypothesis is that SOME low-drive women - those in the BB phase (for whatever reason) - have been/are motivated to use sexuality and sex mostly for securing the relationship and related securities. The more the relationship feels assured and secure the less they feel sexy or have to think about sex with the provider. (Hypergamous fantisies with Cristian Grey, et al, are irrelevant because they provide safe recreation without risk to destabilizing the relationship.)

                          Cutting to the chase: My response to Starfish Sex (SS) is Starfish Relationship (SR). She securured the relationship by following her instintual drive to use sexuality and sex. Simply renew the need for that drive again.

                          [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                          This isn't a normal problem or issue. Especially since I found RP many months ago.

                          It creeped up on me last night and I wanted to squash that shit quickly.

                          If it happens again then I will pull hard dread. I'm on autopilot now and honestly DGAF about any one woman (including wife) nor will I ever again.

                          I need A woman for sex. There are billions of them

                          [–]4delicioustreats 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                          And they come in so many flavors! Gotta try them all.

                          [–][deleted]  (4 children)

                          [deleted]

                          [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                          I dont need your pity, but thanks for offering it.

                          I dont think of my relationship as dead end. Its actually 100% on my terms now that I see reality for what it is.

                          Last night was definitely not the norm since I unplugged-- clearly I have stumbled someplace and its ME who caused last night because AWALT

                          The post is about not putting up with unacceptable behavior. The most Alphalphas will be tested if they are in LTR

                          [–]4delicioustreats 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                          All relationships can end up well. If AWALT is a fact then it doesnt matter what woman you have, it matters what man you are.

                          [–]Sketti-Os 1 point2 points  (4 children)

                          Can I ask what "starfish" refers to in the title? It's not in the glossary, and seems a little strange of a word to use. Like someone said, I thought the title said you refused to enter through her back door.

                          [–]DanG3 4 points5 points  (1 child)

                          Visualize a starfish laying on the sand. Transpose that image to the position of the woman laying on her back on the bed.

                          [–]Sketti-Os 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                          Goddammit. This sub always has crazy-intricate metaphors for things. Here I was trying to over-analyze this one, and it was super simple.

                          Thanks for the clarification.

                          [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                          Starfish means she lays there and is uninterested. Lack of passion. ..duty sex

                          [–]4delicioustreats 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                          ie she lies like a starfish

                          [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                          That's an excellent example of maintaining frame. When you left, didn't pout, just had better things to do, she realized that you really are the MAN.

                          I especially liked that she came out and ASKED if she could cuddle with you. Her behavior became supplicating.

                          [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                          Yes..that's why I rewarded her instantly. Some men advised I gave in easy but I think that denying her seems like I'm pouting.

                          I laid right there in my bed and checked scores. Mentioned them to her right after I said I'm not mad but she isn't turning me on.

                          Anyway..She got pounded and loved it. She wants a man who doesn't need her for sex. She does not know that fact but it's true.

                          [–]1favours_of_the_moon 1 point2 points  (3 children)

                          Side note----I frequently am shit tested and am accused of being angry when I know I'm ice cold and in frame. Or when I put my foot down then I am told I am "arguing". Both cases are untrue. My wife hamsters her inability to "get what she wants" with me as being an MAD and ARGUMENTATIVE person.

                          My mom used to do that to me BAD. It REALLY bothers me. The height of passive aggression, really. Just look at me and ACCUSE me of being pissed off. Fuck you too, cunt.

                          Arguing with a woman is Bluebeta behavior. I've been much more on the indifferent side than upset/angry. I see these accusations as a provocation. She wants me to lose temper so she has "something to work with".

                          Yeah, but she has a "chemical imbalance in her brain," which makes it OK. lol Just glad I'm not a kid anymore, and she doesn't have power over me.

                          [–][deleted]  (2 children)

                          [deleted]

                            [–]1favours_of_the_moon 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                            She lives about 900 miles away, and no longer provides a roof over my head. lol

                            [–]1oldredder 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                            Same. The only true cure for a cunt is distance / barriers, non-contact, even if she's your mother. My mother's the same.

                            [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                            I thought this was about anal.

                            [–]GraveyardDisco 1 point2 points  (3 children)

                            Kudos to you for not degrading yourself to the position of beta male! One thing women need to understand is that as much as they want all the control in any relationship they have, we as men still have the ability to rationalize our situation. If there is one thing that this subreddit has really taught me it is that attempting to have a normal conversation with a woman in regards to sexuality will get you nowhere. They never say what they mean and try to be as confusing as possible. The matriarchy coerces them to connive and manipulate, but we must say enough! Enough playing the second fiddle! A relationship is not the two-way street as those who continue to swallow the blue pill like to claim it is! Women are insane and their greatest desire from sex is to control the man. Take away their sense of superiority in the bedroom and they have nothing to bargain with.

                            [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

                            When you realize how powerful your attention and commitment can be....you realize you can take them away if you are mistreated.

                            My commitment has real value.

                            Every woman has a pussy. Dime a dozen

                            [–]GraveyardDisco -1 points0 points  (0 children)

                            Continue to own your attention and your commitment! They are not bargaining chips.. they are yours to use as you please. Sex will always be there and women fall to their knees for an alpha who maintains ownership of their attention. Dole it out sparingly, and you will continue to sexually prosper.

                            [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                            My ex used to turn me down often. It was always the stereotypical excuses too like she was tired or just wasn't in the mood. I didn't really complain and if she said no I learned to just roll over and go to sleep. Eventually I just stopped initiating because I wanted to avoid confrontation and because we still had sex but on her terms. Then the one time, ONE TIME that I turn her down after a 16 hour work day she freaks out and says "what kind of man turns down sex?" I couldn't believe me ears. We broke up shortly after.

                            [–]EmergencyRU 1 point2 points  (2 children)

                            I have only noticed this behavior with American women. Never with Europeans, I feel like foreign girls feel a lot less inferior to us men and know their place.

                            [–]1oldredder 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                            They are taught by culture it is wrong to exploit men and know that leading a man near to sex then denying him is exploitation.

                            [–]strategos_autokrator 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                            Never with Europeans, I feel like foreign girls feel a lot less inferior to us men and know their place.

                            I completely disagree. (Source: I now live in europe and my wife is european)

                            AWALT.

                            [–]theredpoo 3 points4 points  (31 children)

                            She sounds like a stress case.

                            Have a heart to heart conversation and see what's going on with her. It's likely deeper than you think. This relationship sounds like a ticking time bomb, sex or no sex. What is it that you see in here to want her as your partner forever?

                            [–]alpha_n3rd 6 points7 points  (6 children)

                            This doesn't deserve the downvotes. You should connect with her emotions. That's not the same as showing weakness.

                            [–]theredpoo 5 points6 points  (5 children)

                            Thanks for backing me up. I think TRP is helpful in some ways but drops the ball when it comes to connecting with emotions. Doing that is the farthest thing from a "weakness", instead it takes incredible strength to do this effectively. To me there are 4 levels of handling your woman's emotions:

                            1. Flying off the handle and getting pissed off, yelling and screaming, blaming her and having a fight.
                            2. Caving in to her emotions. Giving her everything she wants to avoid conflict or her getting upset.
                            3. Brushing her off, skipping over her emotional expression in some way. Either not reacting at all, or making one of those vague comments like "Baby let's not get caught up in that, let's just relax and have fun.."
                            4. Connecting with her emotions and empathizing (not sympathizing) with her, allowing her to feel understood.

                            To me, #1 & 2 are BP and a failed strategy.

                            3 is kind of standard RP, and definitely WORKS, as it will placate her for the time being. Many women will calm down and move on from their emotional outburst on the outside, but still be upset on the inside, and it WILL come out, days, weeks, or months later.

                            4 is the most difficult but will solve all problems. Women, like men, often simply want to be heard and understood. When they feel that you are connecting with their emotions, you are on top of the world. You will experience far fewer emotional outbursts, shit test, and all that, and your connection will be strengthened. Win-win-win.

                            [–][deleted]  (2 children)

                            [deleted]

                              [–]theredpoo 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                              Thanks! Agree with your points. I'd like to write a longer post on this but the downvote brigade of dudes in anger phase looms.

                              [–]alpha_n3rd 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                              This is exactly right. I always ask my wife about her feelings. It's usually the first thing I talk to her about when I get home. I try to resist the urge to help or offer advice, I just listen and ask a few pertinent questions. After giving her a few minutes of that I move on. Ditto if something significant happens to her, I always ask her how she feels about it.

                              When she asks about MY feelings I'm usually like "I'm good".

                              [–]4delicioustreats 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                              I dont know why it's always "read the sidebar" to newbs and then the old timers forget MMSLP has a whole section on balancing Alpha/beta. Yes, you need to be beta sometimes. She will cheat for either reason! Alpha men give her submissive tingles, beta men give her cuddle tingles. Both of them involve her getting naked.

                              As a married man you must surf the wave of alpha/beta. One wrong move and you'll be pummeled by the sea.

                              [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (6 children)

                              we have kids together. who said anything about forever?

                              [–]theredpoo 1 point2 points  (5 children)

                              I thought you said you were married?

                              [–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (4 children)

                              married yes. forever is a BP construct. we are together as long as she adds value to my life

                              [–]theredpoo 1 point2 points  (2 children)

                              That is a healthy attitude, and one that I follow.

                              If you could do it again, would you get married...I mean in the traditional sense? Marriage, at least on paper, is supposed to be "together forever", which I realized is an impossibility to predict- after I got divorced.

                              [–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (1 child)

                              I dont know. I like my kids in a two parent home. But..I have to fight every day for the power the government took away from me

                              [–]theredpoo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                              Haha I hear ya man, best wishes.

                              [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                              She doesn't need to sit down and have all of her feelings and emotions validated.

                              He already knows what she wants and needs. The fact that she is unable to express these needs in a mature fashion means she is a woman.
                              "It's complicated. I have needs too" No, it's not complicated, and your needs being met doesn't make you any more interested in meeting your husbands needs.

                              [–]Ihadenoughfuckthis -1 points0 points  (15 children)

                              Yeha dude let the guy show his emotions to her!! to add to that buy her flowers and chocolate... oh make sure that you text her everyday about how she feels.

                              [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                              I think he meant open heart to HER emotions/anxieties.

                              [–]theredpoo -1 points0 points  (13 children)

                              What? So should he treat her as a cyborg with a hole instead? Might be okay if she were a plate but he said it's his wife dude.

                              [–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (12 children)

                              The days of heart to heart conversations with my woman are over. I do take care of her feelings and emotions, but its one way. I take care of my own as I know she cant handle that for me.

                              [–]theredpoo 0 points1 point  (11 children)

                              Then she's more like a plate than an LTR, right? I totally get not getting emotional with plates. Stick with "fun", light topics, and lots of sex.

                              But for LTRs, I don't understand having no heart to hearts, and being emotionless. What's the point? I wouldn't even want to be in an LTR if it meant shutting off my feelings.

                              [–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

                              Your feelings are real and should not be shut off

                              Sharing with your wife isnt a great idea. She cant handle yiur anxiety or your weaknesses . Its like expecting support from your fifth grader kid

                              [–][deleted]  (8 children)

                              [deleted]

                                [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                                Share emotions with bros, not hos

                                [–]Ihadenoughfuckthis 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                                Heart to heart only with bros or when really bad things happe happen. If women wants help she will tell you

                                [–]strategos_autokrator 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                                I don't understand having no heart to hearts, and being emotionless. What's the point? I wouldn't even want to be in an LTR if it meant shutting off my feelings.

                                You can have emotions. But don't dump her on her because it gives her power over you.

                                Your woman can be your Bitchy-Sexy or Motherly-Resentful, but not both. YOU chose which one you want. If you dump your emotions on her hoping she listens to them and try to understand them, well, you are telling her to be your mom. She might do it, but she will resent you for being so beta.

                                I used to tell her about how I was worried at work. Now I just say "I'm pressured with this project, so I'll work late so we finish it on time." I'm not dumping my emotions, I'm just telling her I'm managing things.

                                [–]94redstealth 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                                well done. I was the beta in this type of situation for years. So glad that is over.

                                [–]2johnnight 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                                Side note----I frequently am shit tested and am accused of being angry when I know I'm ice cold and in frame. Or when I put my foot down then I am told I am "arguing". Both cases are untrue. My wife hamsters her inability to "get what she wants" with me as being an MAD and ARGUMENTATIVE person.

                                Truth is we haven't had an actual argument in months. TRP taught me that-- Arguing with a woman is Bluebeta behavior. I've been much more on the indifferent side than upset/angry. I see these accusations as a provocation. She wants me to lose temper so she has "something to work with".

                                That is a useful observation.

                                [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                                I learned this the very very hard way.

                                Blue pill man takes the bait and loses temper. Next thing you know you let her play victim

                                [–]KamaCosby 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                                Sadly, my LTR has to turn me down sometimes because she gets sore. There are always understandable reasons. Fuck a girl too good and she won't be able to do it again for a while

                                [–]1oldredder -1 points0 points  (0 children)

                                That's why fitness is so important. And lube. Normally I don't worry about lube - fucking 3 times a day is plenty good when you eat her out so she's good and wet. But literally with one we went I think 6 or 8 times. Lost count. That was painful the next day, both of us had friction burns.

                                [–]FerrusMan 0 points1 point  (3 children)

                                She threw you a shit test with the starfish maneuver, and you passed it with flying colors. She wanted to be put on the "emotion rollercoaster", and rewarded you when you did. I still scratch my head over why we are hardwired like this. But you can't argue with results.

                                My guess, you had too much beta behavior beforehand, prompting the starfish. Analyze your previous behavior and look for the little beta things. (ie not leading, not being decisive, etc)

                                Great example on dealing with starfish btw.

                                [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

                                Its definitely my fault and I know why....have been around house "too much" lately.

                                Ill sort it. Thats the root cause.

                                This "stand" was necessary.

                                You definitely get it

                                [–]1cover20 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                                It's your house. You paid for it. You are entitled to be there as much as you want.

                                [–]FerrusMan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                                When you are married there needs to be some time spent away from the house, exercise, time spent with a friend, hobbies etc. Part of running married game. Basically a display of you living your life, and not needing her around all the time. But most importantly, you are living your life, and really don't need her around all the time.

                                [–]Locastor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                                Don't ever whine, beg, plead,argue for sex. It will achieve nothing

                                Agreed. You are entitled to it.

                                If she won't hold up her end, end the relationship with her.

                                [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                                Great to see your post here /u/theultmatecad.

                                Arguing with a woman is Bluebeta behavior.

                                This really stuck out and needs to be imprinted in all minds.

                                [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                                glad you agree-- refusing to argue illustrates dominance. shows you dont take her seriously.

                                While this sounds "mean", it reassures women that you are in charge. They dont want a man who can lead. They know they cant make logical thoughtful decisions. When you argue then you are not "sure".

                                Better to smile and say-- "Awwwww... you're upset that I refuse to go to the kids school gala.... I already have a client dinner, Im not going"

                                [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                                FUCK THIS.IVE SAID THIS BEFORE AND ILL SAY IT AGAIN.IF SHE ISNT PUTTING OUT,GET IT SOMEWHERE ELSE

                                [–]CH375268277ARS 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                                Great post from a married mans perspective.

                                [–]BlackHeart89 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                                I wish I would have come across this sooner. For a while now, women have accused me of being mean and an asshole because I would laugh and refuse to buy them things or go the "extra" mile for them when they do the bare minimum.

                                Recently, a chick accused me of not liking her because I wasn't willing to be celibate for her. Her family are pretty big in the whole church thing. But what defeats her argument is that we fucked on the 2nd time hanging out. And we've been fucking every chance we got. She's a good fuck too! And it confuses me because she's the one who initiated every time except for the first time!

                                She's shit testing me hard bro.

                                [–]steelsoldat -1 points0 points  (0 children)

                                Thanks for the lesson man, nooblet here

                                [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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                                [–]Endorsed Contributordown_with_whomever 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                                The people downvoting haven't carefully read what you're saying or don't remember what you're referring to.

                                Remember boys, yes means yes. Unless she changes her mind.

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