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FinanceTo those in student loan debt: Do Not Get Married... to those not in student loan debt: Do Not Get Married (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by [deleted]

Summary: this is a brief post to inform the young, especially college-age men that the compounding effects of non-dischargeable student loan debt and divorce could potentially reduce a man to near starvation-level slavery for the rest of his life.


I am an engineer. I have student loans in the low 6 figures. I earn in the low 6 figures. Thanks to a series of good cryptocurrency investments, I have paid heavily into my loans and now "only" have to pay ~$1,000 per month into my loans. Until two months ago, it was ~$2,000 per month. My NET salary per month was approximately $5,400.

My student loans, alone, reduced me from having $5,400 to having $3,400, per month. That is greater than the difference between making 6 figures and making ~$50k per year once you factor in taxation.

Most importantly, this debt cannot be discharged in bankruptcy. No matter what I do, I will have to keep making my payments until the loans are paid or until I die, and until then, the loan servicers can go after my parents' (cosigners) house, cars, etc. if I do not pay, or go after my own. The stress this creates during periods of unemployment or layoffs is extreme.

The main point of this post is to tell you that I, once, intended to marry a teacher. We met in high school, dated in college, and our relationship followed the typical alpha-to-beta transition which characterizes most eventually female-dominated relationships. If we had been married, we would be divorced by now.

Her salary would have been ~$40K. Mine would have been ~100K.

By my (uneducated) estimate, I would owe her roughly one third of the difference in our salaries annually. Which is one third of of 60K, so 20K.

20K is nearly $1,800 per month. This would leave me with approximately $1,600 per month for myself for literally my entire budget: rent, a vehicle, food, you name it, all while having to hold down a professional position... for the conceivable future.

If you do not pay the divorce rape, you go to jail. If you go to jail, you will likely lose your job and not be able to pay. Then you will go to jail again and the banks fuck your family because you're not paying the student loans. If you do pay the divorce rape, you can't pay your student loan payments and the banks fuck your family. If you lose your job, you can't pay your student loan payments and the banks fuck your family AND you go to jail for missing the child support/alimony payments.

And no, your welfare state will not save you because you're one of those evil people who make money. And, what's worse, you're a man. The only way for you to live is to work to line others' pockets for the rest of your natural life because you made the mistake of taking on two synergistic, parasitic forms of non-dischargeable debt.

I want to stress that, despite all of the good reasons to not get married, this is the biggest one currently for me. Not only would I be incentivizing my wife to leave me, I would be incentivizing her to reduce me to a life of abject poverty in which the banks force my parents out of house and home.

I just wanted to mention this as fair warning. It has crossed my mind a few times and I don't remember seeing it mentioned here before.

I hope this prevents at least one soon-to-be-redpilled man see the potential for catastrophe in marriage, especially if he has student loans.


TLDR: Combining non-dischargeable student loan debt with non-dischargeable and jailable alimony and child support costs could potentially reduce a highly paid and highly educated man to subsistence level living for the remainder of his life. Keep this in mind before you consider getting married while having student loans.

Advice:

Don't get married. Especially if you have student loans.

Edit: feel free to help me with better figures for the alimony/child support cost...


[–]dontbedenied 85 points86 points  (26 children)

I finished college $30,000+ in debt for a degree in art...awful life decision, obviously. I spent the next 5.5 years of my life paying for it in a job that I absolutely hated, and basically became a hermit because I was so determined to pay off my loans so that I could move on with my life and do what I wanted to do.

I didn't date at all during this period. I basically stopped thinking about sex, and women in general. Sometimes I think about those years as "lost", but on the other hand I didn't get married, didn't get anyone pregnant, and didn't throw a bunch of money that I literally didn't have at women.

I can't imagine the horror my life would have become if I had married/gotten someone pregnant during that time. Instead, I paid off those loans ASAP, moved to a different country, got a dream job, and started dating when I could afford it. Granted I learned all my TRP lessons later than I would have liked to due to my debt crisis and self-imposed celibacy, but the alternative would have been much worse.

[–]1Zanford 23 points24 points  (2 children)

This shit is the new form of soft polygamy in our society. Instead of killing off or exiling half the young men so that the other men can have 2x the women, we cram them into cubicles in offices that are sterile and asexual (and often 90% male), they spend all their time working or on asexual hobbies like TV, having very little contact with the hot young things whom other men have their pick of.

[–]dontbedenied 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Ha, I’ve never thought of it that way. Certainly I couldn’t marry someone who would take on my debt, like many women do. I’m a man from a working class family so I’ve always had to take care of myself.

I’m happy to be a healthy, single, child free man. It would be nice to have not lost those years to virtual indentured servitude to the state, but my life could certainly be worse...and some of those dudes who have always had it made financially are now raising kids they may or may not want with a bitch, overweight, underappreciative wife yelling at them and who knows what other problems. I’m alright.

[–]1Zanford 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Sure, I'm not talking about knocking someone up - but about dudes who have no chicks at all in their lives for a long time (what you were talking about with not dating while working off debt) b/c they get so saddled to work.

[–]SonOfSparda304 20 points21 points  (10 children)

I'm in a similarish situation right now. I'm focused on personal fitness and finances to build up my life. Graduated 10 months ago and still haven't been able to move out because my current job doesn't pay enough to live off of.

This whole time I've been trying to get a solid, well paying job. I've adjusted my spending habits to Max my savings for the little I make, while keeping my loan interest down by paying more than I am required.

I'm not concerned with anything other than those things right now. Im 23, but I would rather focus solely on self improvement for 2-3 years to have an awesome life later than have a subpar check-to-check "life" now.

Besides, I need more freedom to be in the dating game, and I don't have the patience for actual "dates"

Edit: forgot to add that I get a lot of shit from my family for focusing on improving myself. I'm the only person that gets up at 5am every day. No matter how quiet I try to be somehow it comes down to me being disruptive, and "we need to work something out and find a middle ground". There is no middle ground. If I don't get up that early, I don't have time to eat and digest before working out. If I work out on an empty stomach, my workout is shit. If I do those things later, I'm late to work. For two people who claim they want the best for me, they tend to directly try to undermine me at every turn whenever I make a decision for myself, or whenever I do something that is a step towards being my own person. Arguments always come out of these situations and I've learned a long time ago to just do what I need to do anyway and put up with the BS.

[–]dontbedenied 10 points11 points  (3 children)

Good for you man...stay positive. I wish I would have lifted during those 5.5 years. That’s one of my only regrets from that time period. That and I wish I would have learned how to dance salsa, another great way to meet women.

[–]SonOfSparda304 6 points7 points  (0 children)

It's not worth it to lament over what we could've done in the past. Just learn from it and go forward.

[–]TheSp4rk 5 points6 points  (1 child)

salsa, at community college + as a full fledged adult, is a great way to meet younger women who are very much interested in older men...

[–]zalinanaruto 6 points7 points  (0 children)

there is no middle ground. but you need to figure something out because you know, youre in your parents' house (i assume). they probably have work and being woken up at 5am might disrupt their sleeping patterns. youre an "adult" and youre living with your parents, but youre complaining because youre bothering them. sounds familiar? just like other teenagers. you might think youve grown up and doing self improvement for the future. but in reality all I read was a selfish teenager living at the parents' house and complaining. i take nothing away from you because you want to pay off debts and stuff tho, but dont bother your parents.

basically i said that because thats what i did in my 20s. i didnt know how actual fucking hard it was when i have my own mortgage and cars and payments and wife and kids to pay for.

[–]aDrunkenWhaler 2 points3 points  (0 children)

There is always a middle ground. You can stop bitching and work out on an empty stomach. You might not hit your highest max, but it's actually better for you. If you insist on eating, prepare your breakfast the night before. If it needs microwaved, eat it fucking cold or change what you eat. If it's an omlette, boil the eggs instead. Have a bottle of water ready. Eat whatever you have on a bench outside on your way to the gym. Shower the night before. Brush your teeth at the gym. Don't turn any lights on, don't turn the tap water on. Leave the house in 30 sec after you wake up. No noise. Do I need to go on? Oh, and you're 23. Stop complaining like a teenager. And congrats for your discipline.

[–]hardly_incognito 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Definitely not alone man.

Just graduated college 10 months ago myself, focusing heavily on getting my debt paid off and landing a job in a career field I enjoy. Only social time is in the gym.

Living with parents also, cheap as hell, and luckily they aren't too demanding. Of course the sacrifice was moving to a retirement town with a population of 40k, so I went from dating frivolously to nearly nothing.

It's tough, a bit mundane at times, but getting our shit together will make our lives substantially better when we hit 25-26 years of age. Best of luck to you.

[–]SonOfSparda304 0 points1 point  (0 children)

and you as well. I'm currently competing for a couple of different jobs that either one will be my entry into a great career. Both pay well too, enough to where it wouldn't take much longer to find a place.

Single life in the early 20s fucking sucks here. Bars are sausage fests and overcrowded as hell with people who peaked in high school (people that I know)

[–]biggerbetterjobs 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I'm in the same boat going for an art degree. But I'm pretty passionate about it and know what I signed up for. Definitely determined to pay off those loans and determined to work in my field of choice. Art school is something a bit different from normal college and I'd advise no one to do it unless they're dead set on living like a workaholic.. maybe even wait til you're older and more mature. It's a lot of work but the general grading is based on nothing and a bit fake so you can get an art degree doing the work of a 5 year old.

Also your location matters (be in a major art hub like NYC or LA) and you need to be an expert schmooze with networking. I personally think being poor and starving is part of the lifestyle though cause I weeds out the weak.

I have no regrets about art school but I get every ones different with different wants and needs. If you want to make money doing creative work.. go in o design and get really good at it. I know a guy in LA who's a millionaire off graphic design and he barely even graduated college. But he still put in tremendous work to get there.

[–]HumpingJack 3 points4 points  (8 children)

Why bother with the loans if you're gonna move to another country?

[–]nyamiraman 188 points189 points  (30 children)

It's funny how at 16 or 17 through to your early 20's, you can make a series of choices that will come to fuck you over for the next 25 to 30 years. Seems the default do-as-you-are-told life in America is not even an option for a man to find happiness now.

[–]SovereignSoul76 165 points166 points  (7 children)

Yeah, no drinking until you're 21.....

...but if you want to absolutely CRIPPLE yourself with enormous debt for the next 20 years, or say, get your limbs blown off in bumfuckistan....well Uncle Sam says that's cool.

[–]worktillyouburk 77 points78 points  (2 children)

Uncle Sam hopes you dont come back, vets surviving is an issue. easier to just pay off the widow

[–]not_usually_serious 10 points11 points  (1 child)

we need to house all of the refugees who suck up welfare not the people who bled and died for our country /s

[–]InternetHateDevice 24 points25 points  (0 children)

bumfuckistan

They reformed to Asscrackistan now.

[–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor 8 points9 points  (0 children)

You can get blown apart in Afghanistan at 17 too. Just no beer.

[–]biggerbetterjobs 3 points4 points  (1 child)

You can sign up for the military or crippling debt or buy mass amounts of Automatic rifles and ammunition... But fourloko is too dangerous for Americans to responsibly drink so must be made illegal.

[–]Disciple_of_Libertas 11 points12 points  (0 children)

[–]Senior Contributor: "The Court Jester"GayLubeOil 93 points94 points  (3 children)

It's the default because it fucks you. That's how the game was desighned.

[–]Troll_Name 2 points3 points  (1 child)

If you do as you're told, you're fucked.

If you do as you're told not to, you're fucked unless you're damn good and ready. Therefore get ready.

[–]orinthedentist 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Are you equating making the choice to take on a ridiculous amount of debt to get a degree with "happiness"?

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 64 points65 points  (4 children)

feel free to help me with better figures for the alimony/child support cost

And the legal cost. And you'll be forced to pay her legal costs too.

There is every incentive for the lawyers to fight.... or pretend to.

They're not really fighting though, they're escalating the battle because they both get paid any which way. And you're paying both sides.

[–]RedPimpin 12 points13 points  (0 children)

lawyers will take the case if you are giving the bucks up, if your case blows they'll just say 'tough luck'

lawyers are just like CDs, if they don't get a case they fucked up.

everyone should have some basic understanding of the law in your place of residence

[–]InternetHateDevice 21 points22 points  (0 children)

The lawyers see the judges everyday, they all know each other and understand the game. They just pretend to fight even though they already know the outcome of each scenario. Even if a lawyer thought a judge or outcome was wrong, he can't raise a fuss because he has to see the same judge in another case the very next day.

[–]Troll_Name 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Do not date women with student loan debt.

Do not work in law or date anyone who does.

Do not consult with lawyers over matters that can be resolved or bypassed without them.

[–]midlifedick 4 points5 points  (0 children)

People without money can be divorced in 6 months.

People with money will be in the system for years supporting lawyers and various "support" personnel like therapists, counselors, friend of the court, etc. It's an amazing support network positioned as help but biased against the dad.

[–]JonathonWally 154 points155 points  (22 children)

For an engineer, your math is not the greatest bro.

[–][deleted] 21 points22 points  (7 children)

I fixed the numbers so they would not be a distraction...

I want more accurate child support/alimony numbers though.

[–]BrownTRP 11 points12 points  (0 children)

child support/alimony numbers

https://www.census.gov/newsroom/releases/archives/children/cb12-109.html

Census dot gov. They provide raw data.

Mass Alimony Calculator

[–]rajputnomad 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Your post is good man. Long time I haven’t seen such real posts. Keep it up and thanks a lot to keep reminding us of the consequences of stupid decisions. Ignore naysayers. When their balls will get tight, they will shout right right. Cheers!

[–]abstractplebbit 6 points7 points  (5 children)

Engineers are notoriously bad at math

[–]TheRedLadle 5 points6 points  (4 children)

So a group of people whose careers rely on strong maths skills are "notoriously bad at math"?

I think you've grasped the wrong end of the stick here.

[–]abstractplebbit 19 points20 points  (3 children)

I'm a mathematician. It's really just an edgy inside joke My career IS math skills

[–]TheRedLadle 8 points9 points  (2 children)

Maybe I shouldn't have been so quick to get up in arms.

[–]abstractplebbit 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Maybe u shouldn't have been so quick to get bootybothered

[–]Banned-in-Boston 15 points16 points  (3 children)

"Six figures" includes the two digits to the right of the decimal point. Ergo, $1,000.00 is six figures.

Engineers are all about akurasy.

[–]Bing400 25 points26 points  (1 child)

See, this is why you aren't allowed into Boston anymore.

[–]Euphoricentia 3 points4 points  (0 children)

why do you think the bridges are all fucking stupid

[–]ChadThundercockII 26 points27 points  (0 children)

To those who want to live life at its fullest... do not get married.

Or get married once you are an old fart with a shitload of money to spare lol

[–][deleted] 59 points60 points  (15 children)

Wise men don't get married in any circumstances. Marriage is a cunning trap; once you fall into it, you will be no more than a bird imprisoned in a cage.

[–]crobertson89 29 points30 points  (13 children)

Truer words have never been spoken(typed). As a married man, sometimes I regret getting married. At this point I’m married and have two kids. Best case scenario if I want/need to cut ties, I lose my house keep my 401 and my kids are old enough to not get child support. Other than that my only option for escape that doesn leave me in the poor house is 12 gauge 2&3/4” and a bloody mess.

[–]worktillyouburk 28 points29 points  (8 children)

i have a second kid on the way, just here they marry you by default (common law partnership) if you live with a partner for over a year or have a kid together.

i see life as a continuous cycle of getting up at 6am, waiting for work to be done so i can go home and get screamed at by a kid till i go to sleep. stay single

[–]HumpingJack 2 points3 points  (5 children)

What country is this? Does it have the same benefits and constraints as marriage?

[–]worktillyouburk 7 points8 points  (4 children)

canada, Quebec more specifically

https://www.educaloi.qc.ca/en/capsules/common-law-couples-making-life-together-without-being-married

hey don't benefit from the protection of the family residence if ownership of the home or the apartment lease is in the name of one person only. They don't have a right to a division of their property if they separate. They don't have a right to a "compensatory allowance" for work done by one person that benefited the other person while they were together. One partner can't ask for support payments from the other partner (financial support for one person in the couple who might need it). The partners don't inherit from each other if one dies without a will or if one was not named as an heir in the will.

[–]gaki123 4 points5 points  (2 children)

Besides having high as fuck taxes there is also this bullshit? Quebec is truly a shithole.

[–]Planner_Hammish 6 points7 points  (0 children)

All provinces have automatic common law, aka adult interdependent relationship. It started as a thing for long term homosexuals to have similar rights when gay marriage wasn't a thing. Now it applies to anyone living together and fucking. Time varies by jurisdiction.

[–]cherryCanSuckMyDick 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Quebec is truly a shithole.

If you speak french, Quebec is actually a fair bit better than most other places in Canada by most measures Ive heard.

Canada is actually. that. bad.

[–]3DGames225 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Is common law partnership really the same as a marriage? Do you have to pay alimony if you decide to break up? Or what is the difference?

[–]askmrcia 5 points6 points  (2 children)

Other than that my only option for escape that doesn leave me in the poor house is 12 gauge 2&3/4” and a bloody mess.

I don't know if I should laugh or not (cause a lot of guys do kill themselves related to this).

May I ask why is marriage so bad in your case? Also how long have you been married?

[–]crobertson89 1 point2 points  (1 child)

It’s not that bad and I’d say to laugh. Been married 6 years now and it’s not that bad but being young still at 27 I miss chasing tail sometimes.

[–]thebigkick 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Grass is always greener.

Cliche but true.

[–]Banned-in-Boston 14 points15 points  (0 children)

The most insidious slavery is on those who believe they are free.

[–]H42 28 points29 points  (15 children)

To any guy who is already married, the most important preparation to secure your future from a financial disaster is a passport.

Yes, it is not a perfect Get-Out-of-Jail-Free card. If you are asleep at the wheel and do not see your divorce looming, the family court judge can, and will, seize your passport to prevent you from bolting.

Some frogs jump out of the pot of warming water. Some prefer to slowly come to a boil.

[–]COMMO_Fix_It_Bitch 5 points6 points  (11 children)

Whats to stop them from just continuing the trial without you present? You're losing all your assets anyways....

[–]H42 19 points20 points  (10 children)

Oh yes, the divorce court action will continue without you. You will be well and truly fucked in the USA. However, you are never returning to the USA, so Big Fucking Deal.

When you see the divorce rape looming, you begin. Or you start today. Nothing wrong with preps long before the need arises.

You start looking for countries with no extradition treaty with the USA. You start looking at employment or business opportunities in those countries. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extradition_law_in_the_United_States

Begin to convert local assets into portable assets, perhaps gold coins. Perhaps you visit your newly selected country, open a bank account and start wiring money to yourself over there.

Make your final travel arrangements, and GTFO, never to return.

[–]i_forget_my_userids 10 points11 points  (8 children)

This is absolute nonsense.

You cannot be extradited for civil offenses. They just do a default judgment. You will still owe all the money, even after transferring it out. They can also seize your assets across borders.

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

[deleted]

    [–]Tastetosis 8 points9 points  (4 children)

    They can't seize your assets if they are all kept as crypto currencies :)

    Go buy some Monero (XMR) - both a good investment and a great way to hide your $$$

    [–]i_forget_my_userids 8 points9 points  (3 children)

    And you'll never own anything else the rest of your life, work a normal job, or have a regular bank account.

    It's idiotic to think that.

    [–]Senior Contributordr_warlock 2 points3 points  (2 children)

    Get a new citizenship. Hopefully you learned a bit of the language. New citizenship = 'foreign' bank account.

    [–]i_forget_my_userids 3 points4 points  (1 child)

    That money can still be seized.

    [–]marplaneit 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    You really think they are going after a deadbet american at 20k on debt for 20 years? Gosh... You just moved to a shitty country and you probably won't get hit.

    [–]berryfarmer 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Begin to convert local assets into portable assets, perhaps gold coins.

    Bitcoin, or even better, Monero are much more portable. One will not be able to take any appreciable amount of gold across the border.

    [–]CSMastermind 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    This is stupid. There are ways to shield your assets. Hell even if you make like $30k a year you can start stockpiling cash your wife doesn't know about or buy guns or art that you can artificially suppress the value of. Buy cryptocurrency. Transfer your assets to a friend you trust.

    Most people are just too lazy or think it can never happen to them. Plan ahead, don't be naive, and you'll be fine.

    [–]H42 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    A plan with its own risks. If the court determines you are hiding assets, you lose, big time.

    But, any plan is better than no plan. To each their own.

    [–]3DGames225 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    And why not to divorce as soon as possible in order to prevent higher loss of assets/income?

    [–]StraightWhiteMaleLOL 11 points12 points  (8 children)

    REFINANCE. I cannot stress this enough. You will save thousands in interest on that loan.

    There are a few companies that offer student loan refinancing (SoFi and Citizens Bank are the 2 big ones AFAIK). If you have a high income (you do) and a very good credit score (you should) you will get a great rate. I was able to slash my rate from an avg of 6.5% across multiple loans to 3.5%.

    [–][deleted]  (1 child)

    [deleted]

      [–]StraightWhiteMaleLOL 5 points6 points  (0 children)

      They are still student loans so I'd imagine they can't be declared as part of bankruptcy.

      [–]Barmacist 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Yes, but remember, there are loan forgiveness and repayment plan options available to federal loans only that you should review prior to refinancing.

      [–]Physio_Tool 0 points1 point  (4 children)

      Does the percentage you mention also work for federal loans? I think mine is 6.5% on two of them at like 105k in debt. Would that half down to 3.5?

      [–]StraightWhiteMaleLOL 0 points1 point  (3 children)

      Yes, mine were federal. The actual rate you get is subject to your credit score, income, and current market rates though.

      [–]Physio_Tool 1 point2 points  (2 children)

      But if you refinance, then doesn't that now exempt you from getting your student loans discharged after 25 years (now 20) of consistent minimium payment which is a benefit of federal loans?

      [–]Barmacist 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Yes, its federal loans only. It also bars you from the Public service loan forgiveness aswell.

      [–]StraightWhiteMaleLOL 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      I'm actually not sure, because I would never qualify for that. You may be right though.

      [–]bitchpotatobunny 10 points11 points  (4 children)

      Alimony is also dependent on the length of the marriage. My ex-wife is a teacher. I was basically in the hypothetical scenario you described. Her salary was slightly less than 40k and mine above 100k. Although we'd been together for 11 years, we were only married for slightly less than 4 of them. (Marriage really is the relationship killer. It all went downhill after the vows) According to my legal counsel, because of this brief period she would've not been entitled to a large sum of money. They estimated less than $300 a month for a fixed period of time. Known as Limited Duration Spousal Support. Open Durational Spousal Support (when you pay alimony until they remarry) is only in play for marriages lasting longer than 20 years.

      Fortunately, my ex is not a cunt and we parted amicably with zero alimony or equitable distribution and we even split the cost of the divorce filing. However, it is important to note, that depending on which way you go with divorce mediation or settlement, you may end up putting it the hands of a judge and there is no specific formula to calculate alimony in my state (NJ). So even legal counsel estimates are exactly just that, estimates.

      [–][deleted]  (1 child)

      [removed]

        [–]bitchpotatobunny 5 points6 points  (0 children)

        We did not have joint bank accounts. However, through technicality, you're not wrong. Seeing as I had paid for the apartment and most of the bills, the money coming out of her account was there because my actions and salary had provided the ability for her to have it there in the first place.

        [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

        Thank you. So my scenario would have been accurate if... what, you were married for 10 years instead of 4?

        [–]bitchpotatobunny 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        I cannot say for certain as I was one of lucky ones to avoid having to find out. However, given the information presented to me, your scenario would be more plausible if the marriage had lasted longer than 10 years.

        Semantics aside, the message still holds value even if the numbers might be off.

        [–]The_Gentleman_Thief 10 points11 points  (0 children)

        I work in finance. Going to add something to this if it hasnt been already mentioned :

        NEVER EVER START SHOULDERING HER DEBT. EVER.

        Some women expect you to. HA!!!I don't care if it's the girl next door, a model or trailer trash. Do. Not. Do. It. Don't cosign jack shit.

        If you do get married, have three bank accounts. Yours, a joint and hers. Don't give a shit what she says, social media says, her girl friends say. The joint account is more a less a token concession to appease her.

        Women are resource-hungry. Not necessarily money, but time, attention, status and so on.

        But I'm telling you right now, even the most liberal woman out there can become instantly financially conservative like their grandmothers at the drop of a hat.

        It's so funny in the family courts eyes women are instantly considered indigent. So much for feminism. Oh, look this traditional law favors you, best not change it.

        PS-Don't even get me started on diamonds.

        [–][deleted]  (37 children)

        [deleted]

        [–][deleted] 27 points28 points  (22 children)

        Yeah his math doesn't fly even if 4200 is his net.

        I feel like guys are afraid to admit they make less than six figures on TRP.

        [–]TopTRP 8 points9 points  (18 children)

        Go here:

        https://www.adp.com/tools-and-resources/calculators-and-tools/payroll-calculators/salary-paycheck-calculator.aspx

        His number isn't far fetched if he is contributing a lot to deductions and lives in a high tax state.

        [–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (15 children)

        Correct. Take out a 401k as well and there you have it

        [–]absoluteskeptic 1 point2 points  (14 children)

        Take out a 401k? Well, that's something he's paying for... and will get back. So it's BS.

        [–][deleted]  (11 children)

        [deleted]

          [–]Endorsed ContributorSorcererKing 4 points5 points  (8 children)

          You should think of that money as gone for good... for reals. Eventually the Feds are going to confiscate 401k accounts to bail out Social Security, putting everyone on "Universal Pension".

          [–]Endorsed ContributorFireTempered 0 points1 point  (6 children)

          Eventually the Feds are going to confiscate 401k accounts to bail out Social Security, putting everyone on "Universal Pension"

          Considering the poor condition of the 401K of average guys, taking it and giving them a pension they "might" get by on would be an improvement, for them.

          On the other hand, for greedy assholes like me, I removed any money from my ERISA accounts a soon as possible, even did "in service" roll outs as they came available. I even had some non-qualifed employer accounts I cleaned out.

          One last thing, as long as I'm in the mood..... Once you have IRA money on hand, convert it to Roth IRA over several tax years. Yes, you have to pay the tax on it, but it now grows tax free, and it is very unlikely to get confiscated like the ERISA plans might. A few other good things about it, too.

          To your point about saving Social Security, I don't thing the tax-qualified accounts will get folded into SS directly. Instead, they will do like the UK and force ERISA accounts into the "pension" system. No more lump sums, just a pension option. Then use the "offset" rules to reduce the Social Security payments like they do state and federal pensioners now. One thing I am certain of, it will change, just waiting to see the "how".

          [–]Endorsed ContributorSorcererKing 1 point2 points  (5 children)

          Yeah, what you said. The form of the theft has yet to take shape, but the eventuality of it is already there for those who read the signs.

          [–]Endorsed ContributorFireTempered 0 points1 point  (4 children)

          It is certain IMO. It is amazing how many of the my wealthiest clients had so little of their own money in any type of ERISA plan. They were quite vocal in their views, and 9 out of 10 of them agree with you (and me).

          [–]Barmacist 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Yeah i have a 6 figure income and after Federal, state, medicare and social security, taxes as well as a manditory state pension contribution, i take home about 52% of what i earn. Then I pay sales tax and property tax.

          [–]Senior Contributordr_warlock 5 points6 points  (1 child)

          6figs doesnt mean shit unless they divulge their city and thus standard of living.

          [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          ..and that is definitely not going to happen

          [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          It is updated to net. And the numbers are a bit closer.

          I forgot to add that part of it is due to bonuses which arent showing on the biweekly salary.

          I effed up the numbers a bit. I think the point stands though

          [–]wewlab 6 points7 points  (5 children)

          I make $105k and I net $4500 a month, but that’s after maxing 401k and health insurance, dental, vision, and some after tax food expenses at my company’s cafeterias

          [–][deleted]  (1 child)

          [deleted]

            [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

            I meant net but yes I still made a mistake w my numbers. I think they are close enough to depict how fucked id be if I was divorced at least

            [–]DONT_reply_with_THIS 0 points1 point  (2 children)

            I've read that a 401k is a horrible investment. Why are you maxing it? Do you plan on retiring in a lower income bracket than you're in now?

            [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

            It isnt with a company match

            [–]DONT_reply_with_THIS 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            Very true I lowered my contribution to 6% to get my company match. When you said max were you talking about contributing as much as you can (to include company) to get to your annual max of around $18k?

            I'm gonna use the extra cash I save for real estate investments (bigger pockets podcast/forum) and starting a side business.

            [–]lordjippy 6 points7 points  (7 children)

            4200/month is the disposable (net) cash at hand after deductibles and rent?

            [–]BrownTRP 4 points5 points  (5 children)

            That's an incorrect way of saying how much you earn.

            Even if he lived in San Francisco, he would have $5,668 per month at $100k salary.

            Also, he said $4200 gross, that is $52,000 per year. Which is an entry level engineer's salary.

            You cannot deduct expenses and claim that is your salary. You need to standardize that why they ask for gross and location.

            [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children)

            Yes, I made the mistake of doubling the biweekly to give me the monthly.

            Ill edit the numbers a bit so they are better.

            The picture still is bleak despite my half baked numbers being a distraction

            [–]BrownTRP 1 point2 points  (1 child)

            Did you just take $100K and find the monthly income?

            Look, I agree with the fact that you shouldn't marry someone with large amounts of debt and if they have consumer debt you should just GTFO.

            If you are an engineer and make mistakes using a calculator, oh boy we are in trouble. I never calculate in my head, it is only written or via a Calc.

            [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

            It was in my head at 2 am in bed before rolling over and falling asleep.

            I was more concerned w the idea than the numbers, to my peril. I forgot the cardinal rule of "know thy audience."

            I simply doubled my biweekly take home pay (rather than calculating monthly) and did not divide my annual bonus out into each month.

            [–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

            I'm a man making a (legit) 6 figure salary (take home=$7k per month) with no debt of any kind. It's also a good idea for people with no debt to avoid marrying someone with debt....because we take on that debt.

            [–]Barvazon 6 points7 points  (0 children)

            Both student loan and divorce payments are indentured servitude.

            If you take student loan, study something you can make a lot of money with. Otherwise, go to a professional school.

            [–]RepostGhostCst2Cst 7 points8 points  (2 children)

            Stuff like this makes me glad I didn't go to college.

            I make low 6 figures and only have crippling BMW debt hahaha

            [–]Futon_Rasenshuriken 1 point2 points  (1 child)

            Mind if I ask what you do? I'm trying to avoid university and stay within community college at best.

            [–]RepostGhostCst2Cst 2 points3 points  (0 children)

            Work with a large airplane manufacturer. They provided all the training I needed and we're union.

            Go do a skilled trade. If I were a young guy I would try to get into the electrical union. Got a couple of buddies that make bank doing that stuff and absolutely kill it whenever there's a storm or something that knocks out the power. I swear this guy buys a new motorcycle after power outage haha

            [–]Reinvented_Myself 6 points7 points  (9 children)

            Can't wait till I'm out of medica school with 300k in the hole. Wooooweeeee

            [–]MoreToLifeThanPoliti 17 points18 points  (0 children)

            Never ever fuck a critical care nurse.

            Trust me.

            [–]cr7stianoronaldo 1 point2 points  (6 children)

            Use residency to pay interest and trim just the fat off the loans. Once you hit the big bucks keep living like a college kid for a few years and you should be good. Hopefully you started med school early

            [–]Reinvented_Myself 0 points1 point  (5 children)

            I’m taking a gap year, is that still early?

            [–]cr7stianoronaldo 0 points1 point  (4 children)

            Personally I consider starting med school early before you are 23/24

            [–]Reinvented_Myself 0 points1 point  (3 children)

            Then I’m in ship shape, I’ll be 23 when I start

            [–]cr7stianoronaldo 0 points1 point  (2 children)

            you'll be alright - any idea on what specialty?

            [–]Reinvented_Myself 0 points1 point  (1 child)

            Yeah, I’ve wanted to do ER medicine for a while now. Are you familiar with the field?

            [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            reminder: don't use the pronoun "her" or you'll be out of a job.

            [–]ijustlovebreasts 5 points6 points  (5 children)

            I do t know why you can't just have a priest marry you, but ignore the legal garbage.

            [–]askmrcia 8 points9 points  (0 children)

            We can, but what woman will accept that?

            [–]GrowBear 0 points1 point  (3 children)

            Wouldn't common law marriage come into effect in due time and you would be susceptible to the legal bounds anyways?

            [–]tieltiel 0 points1 point  (1 child)

            Common law marriage only exists in like 5 states. Not sure how people got the impression otherwise

            [–]GrowBear 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            So if you had a spiritual marriage in any of the other 45 states, wore rings, lived together, had children, called yourself married in front of others, etc. but didn't sign a legal contract, it would stay just a spiritual marriage with no implications?

            [–]cr7stianoronaldo 5 points6 points  (0 children)

            I once told a roommate to not get married otherwise she would be spending his salary and he would be spending her salary... he didn't understand it. oh well BB

            [–]Sky_Robin 13 points14 points  (2 children)

            Sorry, I'm not living in US, so it's difficult to understand your financial situation -- if you have more than 100k per year then how does it translate to 4200 USD gross monthly salary?

            [–]SillyPutty47 13 points14 points  (1 child)

            4200 USD is net salary, meaning after taxes and deductions.

            [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            Thanks. Updated post. This is why you do not post as youre falling asleep at 2 am

            [–]Herdsengineers 4 points5 points  (0 children)

            College has literally turned into an awful investment for most degrees. The debt ran up is crazy, the return on investment is pretty much zero. You can go be a plumber, go to a cheap tech school, etc. and get a certificate, and you'll be way ahead financially compared to someone your same age who went to college and has been working the same number of years.

            I'm encouraging my son to explore real estate, IT via some kind tech school, etc. instead of college. The pay off just isn't there anymore.

            [–]hyugafan 3 points4 points  (1 child)

            Okay, hold on.

            [ ] Married

            [X] Not married.

            I think I got it, OP. Do I win?

            [–]balkan89 2 points3 points  (2 children)

            Wow school must be expensive in the US....my engineering degree in Canada cost like 24,000 CAD. Granted I lived at home so I didn't have too many expenses when going to uni...

            But still, my internships alone I made around 30k (after tax) to fund my degree

            But I pay a lot higher taxes now as a result (compared to an American) I guess

            [–]scamper_22 1 point2 points  (1 child)

            school in the us is ONLY expensive if you dont go to state schools. i did engineering at waterloo and my tuition was on par with say the university of austin or Washington for in state.

            yeah if u go to harvard or whatever... u pay through the nose.

            [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            Grad school was the real killer.

            [–]Endorsed Contributormallardcove 2 points3 points  (1 child)

            Person in student loan debt here.

            Graduated with 143k. Over the past 2 years I have whittled it down to 95k where I stand today. I make enough money now that I am being ultra aggressive and am trying to get it all paid off within the next 2 years. It's going to take a lot of hard work, working 2 side jobs 6 or 7 days a week, but it will be worth it.

            Debt, especially debt like student loan debt or credit card debt, is cancer. You have to treat it like a cancer that you are willing to do anything to get rid of it. I am working my main full time job M-F, then Uber 3 nights a week and in a restaurant 3 nights a week. I'm tired, I wish I had more free time, but its worth it. I'd rather sacrifice 2 years of my life to get it knocked out than be paying it over the next 10-15 years. Fuck that.

            Which brings me to the point the OP is making. A woman will only slow you down in your goal of getting debt paid off.

            [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (3 children)

            If this type of divorce rape happened to me, I would opt out. Not in the suicide sense, but I would go to prison. I'd give the woman and the government the big 'fuck you' and not pay a Damn dime. Come get me, do you worst.

            What's worse than going to prison for the unforeseeable future? Willingly complying like a slave, beta bitch. You choose whether or not to relinquish your dignity and self respect.

            [–]mysterr9 2 points3 points  (0 children)

            Alimony or spousal support varies from state to state, and its availability, amount, and duration is usually dependent on a number of factors. The main factor is length of the marriage. So, while it's possible you would have been divorce raped, it's not a given.

            As for student loans, these never become part of the marital estate (unless one spouse co-signs the other's student loans, and how often is that the case?).

            [–]AHmedm96 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            Is there is any ELI5 for divorce in the US here we have. It as a fixed amount of money in the marriage contract

            [–]francisco_DANKonia 1 point2 points  (1 child)

            or, only get married to a woman who is a high earner, which doesn't leave many to choose from.

            [–]3DGames225 2 points3 points  (0 children)

            High earner women won't marry, they are smarter than us

            [–]zalinanaruto 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            that sucks man. but thats life. some people are borned rich while others are not. some people have great parents that take care of themselves and dont require their children's assistance.

            i hope you get to move out soon and then you will still be doing the same chores except it would be for yourself.

            i just got married and we have a baby coming and we bought a house together. we split the chores, harder labor is me while other easier chores my wife do.

            i just think we shouldnt complain about our parents if they are helping because we dont know how hard it is.

            [–][deleted]  (4 children)

            [deleted]

            [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children)

            I had 10k ant (which became neo) and sold it early.

            Ugh.

            I got into ETH last winter and maxed out everything for a few months. Best move ive ever made.

            [–][deleted]  (2 children)

            [deleted]

              [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

              LNK, OMG, ETH

              Any legit ICOs will be nice as they come long too

              [–]RighteousSouljah 1 point2 points  (1 child)

              1600 is what i make and it's a bitch to ever get out of this hell hole loop. Any one thing goes wrong and your done happened multiple times where i had to start over. Trying to figure out how i can make more money while not having access to more money.

              [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              A second job, cutting down on expenses, and slowly getting into crypto currencies might work. Just remember to never sell at less than what you bought for

              [–]berryfarmer 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              In order to escape the slavery and non dischargeable debt couldn't you pay off the loans with credit cards and then declare bankruptcy on the credit cards?

              [–]ijustlovebreasts 1 point2 points  (1 child)

              If you really want to get married, signs a prenup for fucks sake.

              [–]telluwhut 5 points6 points  (0 children)

              Good advice for any would be husband, but pre-nups are not foolproof. They have been thrown out before. There are steps you can take to minimize the odds this happens, but not to zero.

              [–]PetethePanda1 -1 points0 points  (8 children)

              Don't get married? The advice should be, "take marriage very seriously, work hard at it and find someone who does equally."

              What kind of advice is don't get married? And where in the US is a divorced man forced to pay his wife without kids part of his salary once they are divorced for the rest of his life?

              I thought this sub was about being a man and I just see a bunch of posts about boys complaining about being victims of marriage. Man up, take your marriage in your own hands and make it real. Show your children what a real man looks like who stands up for his family and works hard for his marriage.

              OP's outlook on marriage is just sad. Marriage can suck and is hard, but it can also be extremely rewarding both emotionally and financially. And divorce is very rarely a one-way street. I'm not saying that doesn't happen, but it is a small minority of cases. How is taking this view helping create a positive view of men? This view makes men look like selfish pigs who only care about money and not being tied down.

              [–]makeshift98 3 points4 points  (1 child)

              take your marriage in your own hands

              It's a marriage, idiot. You will only ever be 50% of the equation.

              And divorce is very rarely a one-way street.

              Did you bump your head and fall down here? You can very quickly and easily google who initiates 70% of divorces.

              [–]Hillarysdilddo_2016 4 points5 points  (0 children)

              What kind of advice is don't get married? And where in the US is a divorced man forced to pay his wife without kids part of his salary once they are divorced for the rest of his life?

              Better to be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and prove it.

              [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              lol no thanks. you can slave the rest of your life away for an ungrateful fat bitch and two faggot kids. I'd much rather be selfish.

              [–]MorganTargaryen 0 points1 point  (2 children)

              So if I make under 40k I am at subsistence level? just recently paid off my student debt and living in a low cost of living area (dfw). am single and live in an apartment.

              [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

              No. If you made 40k and needed to pay an extra 2k out the ass every month, that is what would fuck you

              [–]MorganTargaryen 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              Well my before tax salary is about 35k so after taxes and everything my take home is about 2400 a month.

              [–]itsdir0 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              But how much was your loan debt?

              [–]Guthix4Days 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              NEVER get married. Seriously.

              This is also a prevalent issue in the military. A lot of guys (especially boots) marry for the free housing and extra benefits, end up having kids (aka hostages) with a dependapotamus hoe and then get divorce-raped when they least expect it and lose over half of their pay / bonuses every year on paying settlements, alimony etc. I'd have a word with the CO, hold a little safety brief and hang posters around the base warning personnel to never, ever get married because they will get the short end of the stick.

              TLDR don't get married!

              [–]bob13bob 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              this is nothing to do with marraige and everything to do with us young being the poorest generation since great D with the largest chips stacked up against us.

              i'll give you some hints: income base repayment. plug in to excel sheet with present value money charts. Many people should stall out loans as long as possible.

              buy a FHA loan 4plex asap. This will give you large tax breaks, and create an income/wealth stream that is tax advantaged.

              marriage has big tax breaks associated with it.

              [–]Barmacist 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              I'm almost in your exact same spot, mid 6 figure debt, low 6 fig salary, 5400 net takehome monthly. 1200 every month on that debt. Hurts but manageable with proper budgeting and living in a low cost of living srea

              [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              ah shit i didn't realize student loans are this nuts. I thought it would only be a few hundred a month. I really have to stop showing off all my expensive accessories and toys to my friends who i know are paying that shit off.

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