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Field Report[FR] Plate's friend got violent with her boyfriend (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by 1raceAround126

TL/DR: Girl beats her boyfriend in full view of everyone. She cries when the game is up and when she thinks I'm about to call the cops on her. White knights abound


Long version

One of my FWBs is 24, 8/10 and pretty fun. My FWB does sometimes show off some redpill traits I suppose. She understands that she's a FWB and it works well. She's got shit going on, as do I and neither one of us want the struggles of any sort of committed relationship. We enjoy fucking and the occasional hanging out.

Anyway, we were going out to the cinema last night and her friend and boyfriend decided they wanted to tag along. Movie over, we're getting some drinks and food from a pub bar thing across the way. I'm busy mainly with my FWB as she gets fun when I make her laugh. Her friend and boyfriend appear normal enough.

Anyway, the friend is definitely in the fixing type of mood. And she starts the conversation from out of nowhere. It's all about me and FWB and what we "are" why I haven't "committed" to her in any way.

I refuse to answer anything directly just saying that we are happy enough with how things are and no need to change anything that doesn't need fixing. I crack a few more jokes and get on mainly with warming up my FWB. But friend is obviously not letting up.

We discuss a bit more, my FWB is a bit more straight up than me but certain things she shuts up about, mainly stuff I have refused to answer before. But she gets enough to know that there is no commitment and that I do see other girls, something my FWB knows too. My FWB it seems doesn't see other guys according to my friend and talks about me often (uh oh, does someone want an upgrade?) but then describes me as an "asshole".

Of course, friend goes on the judgement speech immediately. My FWB is defending our arrangement just fine, I'm happy to let her fend off the initial assault. Friend then turns to me and asks me why my FWB isn't good enough for her. I make fun of her feet and her obsession with some male actor and point at flaws that way. FWB is giggling away, she knows I'm taking the piss out of her friend in the same way I diffused her old shit-tests on me when we first hooked up.

All the time, friend's boyfriend is laughing with me. He's cottoned onto where I'm at pretty quickly and is joining us in collectively laughing at the friend.

It's obvious, friend isn't happy about our situation and I'm obviously a scumbag. She turned back on my FWB when she said she shouldn't be "that kind of girl" and she can "do better". I firmly suggest that it's none of her business and if it's what her friend (my FWB) wants to do, then she should be her friend and support it. Not decry it. I could see friend's shit test was really a comfort test for my FWB. Instead of relenting and pledging my undying allegiance, I simply stood in the middle verbally and backed her off.

Whatever. The whole thing is highlighted when our bill comes and my FWB (she knows the score now, she knows my mentality before I even speak) asks the waiter for three bills. One for me, one for her and one for her friend and boyfriend. Or rather, boyfriend as he pays for her it seems.

Immediately friend pipes up again at me. "What, you're not even going to be a gentleman and pay for her dinner? After she puts up with the likes of you?"

I simply respond, "Really she should pay for me; I put up with her friend questioning me for a whole three hours! And did I mention those hobbit feet?" My FWB knows I'm just riling her friend, she grabs my hand and tells me she'd pay double for me or something like that. I can't recall correctly.

The friend's boyfriend is lapping all of this up. He sometimes sways between being protective of his girlfriend (she wears the pants, even responding correctly when she orders him to stop drinking alcohol) and laughing with the situation I find myself in.

We're leaving, my plan is to take FWB home for a pounding. We're already plenty touchy feely enough. We're walking back to where my car is parked and part ways with friend and boyfriend.

We're making out next to my car for a few minutes. It's dark, cold and pretty nice. My FWB is still giggling at some of the stuff that got said, I think this was the first time she was my audience member to handling women rather than the subject. Maybe it's knocked my game down a peg with her, maybe not, who knows.

Anyway we look over in the distance and discover friend and boyfriend are obviously arguing. We can't quite hear what is said, we weren't sure it was them at first, but she's doing the whole thrusting arms up in the air, he looks reasonable enough. We speculate at what they could be arguing at. FWB wants to go over and try and chill things, I just said we should leave them to it, no need to get involved in a domestic. Let them play it out, it's their business.

We're watching them about 2-3 minutes speculating, the friend is obviously getting a bit angry at the boyfriend who turns to walk off a few times. Now as we start to get into my car, I could swear I saw her clout him one over the head. My FWB didn't see it, but I was sure I did. We get in, I turn my car on and then it happens. The friend unleashes a hellfury on the guy like a wrestling match. She started with a kick in the balls which he obviously reacted to bending over to protect himself, she punched him in the face and on the back of the head. My FWB was in shock, just managing an "Oh my God!"

Now whaddya do. There's this guy getting beaten. You don't really know him at all, you don't really know her at all. FWB said we should go over. I just said, "Sod that we should just call the cops on her now!"

FWB is definitely not down for that idea because "she could get arrested!". Yes, yes she could. After a few seconds, I relented and said we'll drive over across that side of the car park and see what's up.

We get there, she's still in the midsts of berating him, calling him a cunt and a psycho. He has a mark on his face where she had punched him one and a bloody lip. When we appraoched them to split them up, she was facing him down with fists ready.

My FWB pulled her off of him backwards, I'm checking the guy make sure he can still talk. I specifically chose that dynamic, there is no way I am putting my hands on this girl or going anywhere near her! I could see a couple of people who had watched the whole thing. Now that FWB and I had shown up, that's when they decided to come over to "help". Fucking pussies.

The boyfriend obviously isn't happy but won't tell me what happened. It was shocking at first, this went from silliness in the pub to very extreme in no time at all. The friend started towards him another two times. The second time she tried to swipe for either me or him and I just stood up and said if she said one more word, I was calling the cops. Phone out, unlocked, I was dialling. My FWB was crying by now pleading me not to. The friend had shut up immediately. Her boyfriend was also asking me not to, I just said "That last swipe almost hit me and you bet your ass one more word gets said, I'm dialing. Do not even test me!"

We had attracted a fair amount of attention by now. People were watching agape at this whole thing unfold. Anyway, it seems threatening to call the cops was enough to get the friend to stop attacking and start crying. There were occasional shouts from her vicinity obviously aimed at boyfriend. Usually single word insults and more voices trying to calm her down.

We're there about 20 minutes with pussy Samaritans all trying to help out - aka stick their noses in the shit but when the boyfriend was getting smacked up they were all well back! That is, several guys and girls are talking with the friend making sure she's OK, I'm with the boyfriend trying to talk to him about what went on.

My FWB comes over to me after a while to join me with the boyfriend. She tells me she said that I would drop her home in my car. As in she had already offered. I just said, "There is no way that nutter is getting in my car. She can get her arse a cab!" My FWB protested that she couldn't leave her friend in that state so I just said, "If you want to go with her, do so. But there's no way I am having that in my car!"

There are a few men and women with the friend making sure she's OK. The boyfriend had two separate guys coming up to him demanding to know how it started. They basically were looking for opportunities to white knight. Their body language was very much antagonistic, demanding answers, "Why would she start at you like that? You must have done something to her..." You know the sort, rising inflections, that smarmy ass attitude.

One of them I had to tell to walk away as I could see what he was doing. He refused at first with a "what are you going to do? make me" type attitude. I told the boyfriend "Don't answer this guy anymore" and we both stood there in silence. The pussy white knight kept asking more shit until he finally got the message and walked back away. I guess he felt like he had won or something.

I knew that the the boyfriend was too much of a pussy not to take the bait. Had I left him answer the white knight's questions, something would have probably kicked off again. No need for another white knight war.

The situation diffused, I persuaded the boyfriend to leave in his car and go head to one of his friend's houses for the night, tissue to nose. I made him call the friend on his cellphone to tell them he was coming as I knew he would have just bolted for wherever he lives with this nutter woman. By calling his friend, he was pretty much committed then.

After he pulled out, a few men and women are left waiting with the friend for a taxi to show up to take her home. I started heading back to my car, my FWB runs up after me. She asks me if I'm leaving and I said, Yep, you're taking your friend home, everything is diffused, I'm going home!"

My FWB is obviously torn. She doesn't want to leave her friend, no matter how crazy she obviously is, but she doesn't want me to go either.

The same white knight, obviously on the hunt for pussy, won't leave us converse in peace and saying things like "Just let him go, if he wants to go let him". I don't dignify him with answers and address FWB. I just said, "It's your choice! But I'm leaving now."

I start walking, white knight is still there with his whiny voice but I don't even acknowledge him. And frankly, neither does my FWB. I got in my car and she gets in the passenger seat. She even said, "Fuck sake, that guy was pissing me off!"

She scrambles and pleads with me again to just drop her friend off and take her back to mine afterwards. I refuse simply stating that I really don't want to be around if she kicks off again. Simply as I know it's in her to do it.

A good few minutes, white knight is still waiting around sort of staring at us waiting for my FWB to emerge. What a pussy, he's laughable.

Finally, FWB tells me she will get the taxi with her friend, get her in the house and then get a taxi to mine. But would I make sure that they got to the taxi OK? I think she was actually a little afraid of white knight. I just said do what you feel, if I'm still up when you get to mine then cool.

I put FWB in the taxi next to friend. There was obviously a few people around, including white knight. Before I closed the door, I told the driver, "Take them out of the parking lot before you ask them where they're going!"

In a way, I was worried in case someone would try to follow them home but moreover I just wanted to express control of the whole situation in and of itself. I closed the door, the taxi drove off and I walked back to the car. People still hypothesizing what happened. And I would swear that someone told some newcomers that it was the friend who had gotten beaten up. I got back to my car and drove away from the crowd.

2:30am, about an hour later, she knocks on my door. She's lucky. I had just showered and was ready to hit the sack. A quick shower for her later, we're discussing things in bed. It turns out the friend didn't like me at all and that I was a "player". Me? Really? I never thought I would have ever been described like that. She was of course bemoaning this to boyfriend.

But it seems that boyfriend thought I was funny and not as bad as she was making out. And he apparently said it was cool that I was banging multiple women. And this was apparently the flashpoint for her friend. There was obviously more to this story which FWB did tell me, but not too relevant here. Apparently boyfriend used to see her ex-best friend and that was also mentioned a few times.

My FWB tried to excuse it by saying that her friend had "been treated badly" in the past. The second she said this, I just snorted and said "Bullshit, she knew what she was getting into with any one of those men who treated her badly!"

She was initially put off with this response, until she sort of figured that it must have been true to some extent. After that was a definite comfort test. Lots of "I never knew she could be that way" and "she must be nuts". Lots of LMR as well, but then you know how that goes.


Lessons

  • Women, even ones you trust, can suddenly snap and beat you. They can and will do it if sufficiently provoked.

  • While talking to the boyfriend after his attack, I asked him why he didn't fight back. HE simply said he was scared to do so simply because of the consequences. I.e. any of the guys witnessing would have most likely been violent towards him, through to the police arresting him instead

  • Men in England will act just as white-knight as you Americans it seems. The immediate assumption was that they boyfriend did something wrong to initiate the attack and the justice mob demanded answers

  • White knights actually scare women. It was definite my FWB wanted me to ensure she got to her taxi just fine, even noting to walk on the opposite side to where white knight was standing.

  • Taking a strong stance against anyone attacking anyone does not need a raised voice. It needs dominance and the presence of an actual threat, in my case calling the cops on this woman.

  • Some FWBs can be quite loyal when it comes to the crunch. I maintained frame when I refused to give crazy woman a car ride home. I remained ambivalent when my FWB said she needed to get her friend home. I demonstrated outcome independence when she turned up and I was just about to go to sleep, I wasn't waiting for her. All of these things she took in, processed in her mind and appeared grateful for. Put it this way, I got more than breakfast made for me this morning.


Update

I went out again last night for band stuff. As I drove home, some dickhead took a roundabout the wrong way (he was pissing about I would wager) and almost head-on crashed into me. Thank fuck for ABS.

But, it did give me a big reminder. My car has a dash-cam. When the whole thing kicked off, I made the decision to drive over to the incident rather than walk. It turns out this was a better idea than I had initially thought. My car's dash camera is automatic so I don't have to remember to turn it on, it goes on with the car's ignition and stays on. Also when we had arrived at the incident and got out, I had left my ignition keycard in the slot absent mindedly. But that meant the electrics were still on and yep, the dash cam rolled the whole time.

Now, it hasn't captured the entire fight, the beginning is missing. But it's very clear who is doing the beating and aside from some blurriness as it adjusts for light while I'm driving across the car park, it does capture enough blows delivered by the Friend.

The audio is useless and after we split them up there are only a few times where you see any of us. It's mostly people just milling around, a lot of white knight footage but importantly, it does capture the beating, where FWB was pushing her friend back across to the bench and the Samaritans who had previously been gawping near another bench deciding that would be the time to intervene. And it has captured when I was talking with FWB in the car about her taking her Friend home. An interesting conversation that I wish I could post. You hear more the second time around...

I doubt there is enough there for a conviction or any sort of unquestionable evidence. But you never ever know and I have now backed all of it up. Like I say it's not a headshot piece of footage in my dumbass opinion, but there is enough there.

I spoke with FWB (nobody else knows about my dashcam footage for now). It seems that the Boyfriend had a good conversation with the friend he went to after it all went down. I mean, he had to explain the battlescars. It seems the guy the boyfriend stayed with talked sense into him and he wants to move his stuff out of the flat. Of course the Friend is in pieces, life ruined, etc.

I just told FWB that it's her own damned fault and she's lucky not to be behind bars. There was a little bit of half baked defense, I got the sense that she had been trying to support her friend, bought into some of her bullshit like "It was only the first time" and "How can't he see past this one little thing" and "She is sorry and wants to make it work" and all this crap. A few gentle reminders about the kick in the balls that even FWB herself gasped at and asking her to consider how she would feel if someone had kicked her in the vagina like that. Not a prospect she relished.

I think initially she was trying to figure what I would tell the police if it ever came to that. Instead of answering, I just put it back on her that if it was the boyfriend doing the beating what she'd tell the police.

By the end of the call, I don't think it had taken much effort for her to come back round to her senses and realize that her friend was a nutter. She ended up saying that the Friend wasn't her "best friend" and that she had "only known her a few years" and otherwise trying to disassociate herself. FWB is definitely under the impression that if she keeps her Friend around I won't be and that she should really get some sense and distance herself from her regardless.

Who knows whether she will or not. But that's the minor update over the last 48 hours.

Women and their fucking dramas!


[–]Senior ContributorNightwingTRP 183 points184 points  (24 children)

Exceptional FR. Personally I think situations like these have no perfect way to handle them given the way the law operates (i.e. in some domestic abuse situations, after the woman has hit the man and there is a visible sign of injury, the police will just arrest the man without any questions.) You did extremely well OP.

As practical advice for all Red Pill men... if any woman you're involved with shows signs of attempting violence against you, it is an automatic hard next regardless of circumstances. No ifs or buts.

My interpretation of this FR reminds me of something similar which happened to me, without the escalation to violence. I would say that she saw your high SMV and resented what she couldn't have. Attempts to shame you would have demonstrated you were beta and so nothing to want anyway. But you held frame and batted away her nonsense very well. So were obviously not beta. As she gets more and more upset about the fact you're high SMV and she can't have you, she throws a temper tantrum like the child she is and then lays into her punching bag... literally.

Women will call high SMV men "asshole" in two different tones of voice depending on where they perceive their own SMV. He's an asshole with a smile and adoring eyes if she thinks he's within reach. He's an asshole with venom and hatred if his SMV is too high for her and she can't have him. (Therefore must sabotage him and make sure he gets with no woman. But that never works. It's just petulant childish behaviour driven by jealousy. Or maybe it's the old fallacy about "I don't want that" which you couldn't have anyway.)

I've received both statements in a night before with a mate, his gf and her friend. My mate was well aware that I did nothing remotely different or offensive either at the start or end of the night. However his gf cock blocked me expertly. Her friend was lapping up the kino and taking pictures with me... (Then begging for it not to be put up on facebook because "they'll know I slept with him." -yes, I found that particular choice of words interesting too, so it stuck in my memory.) then goes to the bathroom and when she comes back I brush against her arm and she practically cried rape. While my mate wouldn't blame his gf, he certainly noticed a very distinct shift in her friend's behaviour. He'd seen her lapping up my attention earlier and figured she was just a crazy woman. We know better gentlemen. My mate's gf must have subtly hinted that her friend's social status would have been at risk if she continued enjoying herself with me. Standard cockblock. But I'd say there's similar feminine hypergamy influences causing it.

[–][deleted]  (12 children)

[deleted]

    [–]Senior ContributorNightwingTRP 54 points55 points  (11 children)

    This is an excellent point and a good catch. Part of what feminism tries to do is a sort of unionisation of pussy. They try to force the best deal regardless of how talented the worker is. So the laziest, loosest, ugliest pussy can still charge top dollar despite giving inferior service.

    Not only does a woman giving up sex so easy lower the price of sex which is bad for women as a whole in terms of their bargaining position. A girl who is an SMV 6 sees a man she would like to have commitment from. She then sees an SMV 7 or 8 giving him sex without commitment... she is literally priced out of the market completely. If other men she desires cotton onto this... it doesn't matter that her SMV is 6 and it's higher than a girl who is a 4, she's still quite literally worthless in the marketplace because everything she wants to buy is priced at 8 or above. This is quite literally a woman's worst fear.

    [–]anon445 3 points4 points  (10 children)

    Is "cottoned on" a slang term or something? Both you and op said it, and I can't tell if they're coincidental typos or they mean something on their own.

    [–]1Paid_Internet_Troll 9 points10 points  (1 child)

    It's regional slang. I heard it a lot growing up in the Midwest, and also hear it a lot from people who were raised in the South, but almost nobody from the West or Northeast uses it.

    [–]mrrooftops 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Most of the Angloshpere use it.

    [–]Senior ContributorNightwingTRP 17 points18 points  (6 children)

    Yeah, it's a colloquial phrase. Means realising something which isn't obvious.

    Use Google next time. You're here to ask questions, sure... but not ones you can find out on your own. Try your own research before asking questions in the future. You need to start taking the lead in your own masculine development.

    [–]fingerthemoon -1 points0 points  (0 children)

    cotton onto

    Meaning

    To get to know or understand something. Origin

    The phrase 'cotton on to', with the above meaning, appears to be limited in usage to the UK and other countries that were previously part of the British Empire, notably Australia and New Zealand. In the USA, especially in the southern states, 'cotton to' is used, with the slightly modified meaning of 'take a liking to'.

    As early as 1648, in a pamphlet titled Mercurius Elencticus, mocking the English parliament, the royalist soldier and poet Sir George Wharton used 'cotton', or as it was spelled then 'cotten', as a verb meaning 'to make friendly advances'. 'Cotten up to' and 'cotten to' were both used to mean 'become friendly with'. Whether this was as a reference to the rather annoying predisposition of moist raw cotton to stick to things or whether it alluded to moving of cotton garments closer together during a romantic advance isn't clear. John Camden Hotten, in his Slang Dictionary, 1869, opted for the former derivation:

    Cotton, to like, adhere to, or agree with any person; "to COTTON on to a man," to attach yourself to him, or fancy him, literally, to stick to him as cotton would.
    

    The number of citations that use 'cottening' in a courtship context and the use of the 'cottening up' variant would suggest the latter is more likely; for example, William Congreave's comic play Love for Love, 1695:

    I love to see 'em hug and cotten together, like Down upon a Thistle.
    

    The attaching of cotton strands to the bobbins of weaving looms is sometimes also cited as a source of 'cottoning on', but there appears to be no basis for that notion. None of the early citations of the phrase mention that context.

    'Cottoning on' as we now use it derives from the meaning of 'attaching oneself to something', specifically an attachment to an idea that we haven't encountered before. It would seem to be a reasonable bet that at least one of the variants of this phrase would have been coined in one of the major English-speaking cotton producing regions of the world, for example India or the USA. Not so; which gives more credibility to the notion that this phrase has little to do with the cotton plant. 'Cotton to' was coined in the UK and the first widespread uses of 'cotton on to' were in New Zealand and Australia. The earliest example that I can find of this is from the New South Wales newspaper The Maitland Mercury & Hunter River General Advertiser, March 1883, reporting on a local horse race:

    A lot [of backers] then cottoned on to Sahara, who was a strong favourite.
    

    This citation was closely followed by a reference in a New Zealand newspaper The Wanganui Herald, June 1893:

    The Kaierau forwards are just beginnng to cotton on to the passing game.
    

    It seems that 'cotton to', 'cotton on to' all derive from the same root source, that is, the verb 'to cotton'. In the UK and its antipodes it has settled down as 'cotton on to', with the meaning 'form an understanding of' and in the USA it is 'cotton to', with the 'take a liking to' meaning.

    [–]ZippyTheSpaceMonkey 16 points17 points  (4 children)

    He's an asshole with venom and hatred if his SMV is too high for her and she can't have him. (Therefore must sabotage him

    maybe this is where harpy feminazis are. Their SMV is so low that all men must be shamed.

    [–]Senior ContributorNightwingTRP 19 points20 points  (3 children)

    This is actually a complex one because it's really obvious that a lot of feminists are not attractive. So it's tempting to put the whole thing down to an attempt to subvert the SMP because of the fact that feminism has had a significant impact on both the SMP and RMP.

    However you've got to remember that women play everything between the lines. It's never up front. This is why womanese is such a needlessly complex and sometimes contradictory language. Once you reconcile this with the way women drag down competition, while men try to exceed the competition... you'll start to get an idea of why a creature that is mostly led by her emotions of the moment, will try to play nice with a man they like one minute and then try to tear him down in a jealous rage the next. The jealousy is the unique factor here. Women will typically disqualify themselves from pursuing men who are significantly above their SMV because they know it will hurt their social status for appearing to have such poor social skills. (i.e. they can't read the signals or the sexual hierarchy and are therefore of low value. It's similar to a man who can't game for shit. Once he's found out, his poor social skills make his SMV plummet.)

    However the emotions strike in a moment where she feels entitled to have the attention of a man and his SMV is in range, then she suddenly realises that it isn't. Her perceptions of the gap were false and the ego defence mechanisms jump into play, getting the hamster running to protect her image of her SMV - the hamster does have a purpose for women to ensure they keep their standards high and only accept a high quality partner... even when they're shit. Hence the 20/80 rule regardless of the fact that a woman's SMV falls on a scale which demonstrates a normal distribution. Irrational things can usually be explained as rational if they are pragmatic.

    [–]fingerthemoon 1 point2 points  (2 children)

    What's RMP? I searched urbandictionary and the Updated Glossary of Terms and Acronyms with no answer found.

    Relationship Market Place? Real Market Place?

    [–]Senior ContributorNightwingTRP 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    Relationship Market Place?

    Winner winner, chicken dinner.

    The RMP isn't discussed much on here these days. I am not so certain why... there is an excellent collection of LTR game posts from years back, but not so much anymore.

    [–]fingerthemoon 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Thanks for your time to answer and your contributions to the betterment of man.

    [–][deleted]  (1 child)

    [deleted]

      [–]throwaway_holla 11 points12 points  (0 children)

      We know better gentlemen.

      "We know better, gentlemen."

      Without the comma it means "We know gentlemen who are better".

      [–]ECoast_Man 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      My interpretation of this FR reminds me of something similar which happened to me, without the escalation to violence. I would say that she saw your high SMV and resented what she couldn't have

      This is exactly what is going on. I said elsewhere- she is either alpha-widowed or just a cock hungry feminist. Women hate submissive betas like her BF. Her feelz overcame her.

      [–]peoplearejustpeople9 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Wow, the way you put it makes me think it wasn't her fault. Like she wasn't in control of herself. So, it'd be unethical to put her in prison because she was just following her female prerogative and the boyfriend was just under control of society and thus couldn't hit her to put her in her place. I hope this doesn't make me sound like a White Knight because this brings up issues about male violence as well.

      Correctional facilities should be more than just cages.

      [–]holytrpbatman 70 points71 points  (5 children)

      Update us when crazy friend let's you know she wants you to bang her.

      [–]VelociReactor 36 points37 points  (0 children)

      Yeah and then claim rape afterwards when the BF finds out.

      [–]Uptonogood 16 points17 points  (1 child)

      There's something always said about sticking your dick in crazy.

      [–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

      "Just do it"

      No... that's not it...

      [–]Sementeries 9 points10 points  (0 children)

      I'm hoping OP wouldn't fuck her crazy ass with a stolen dick.

      [–]dancing_junkie 4 points5 points  (0 children)

      Who doesn't like a good hate fuck.

      [–][deleted] 49 points50 points  (23 children)

      White knights are so fucking annoying. They want to be the big hero, but in reality are just sexually frustrated beta orbiters.

      [–][deleted]  (10 children)

      [removed]

        [–]cariboo_j 25 points26 points  (6 children)

        This reminds me of the Karpman Drama Triangle

        The main roles are Victim, Persecutor and Rescuer.

        Karpman [..] chose the term "drama triangle" rather the term "conflict triangle" as the Victim in his model is not intended to represent an actual victim, but rather someone feeling or acting like a victim

        This dynamic commonly plays out in dysfunctional families or couples. It describes conflict borne out of the participants' own dysfunction and ego, not actual, unavoidable conflict.

        The White Knight wants play the Rescuer role... so he goes around looking for a female Victim and a male Persecutor to save her from. He is himself dysfunctional/out of touch with reality because he'll rush into a situation and project Victim and Persecutor status onto people without knowing the full context.

        If you engage with a White Knight and strike him first, you've been sucked into his frame. You're acknowledging his role as the Rescuer and yourself as the Persecutor.

        The only way to not get sucked into his little game is to refuse to engage. If he persists and strikes you first, then he gets framed as the Persecutor and you become the Victim.

        [–]1cmkinusn 6 points7 points  (1 child)

        Everyone should click that link immediately and read the theory portion at the very least. It is amazing how thoroughly this distills the roles of each "actor" in an abusive relationship, politics, feminism, the female imperative, etc.

        [–]peoplearejustpeople9 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        I wonder, would this kind of stuff be taught in a sociology field at college?

        [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        Refusal to engage is best. It will also belittle him and make him feel fucking stupid for trying to be a rescuer.

        Good, helpful post.

        [–]Spidertech500 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        huh, thats a very interesting point, thank you, i'll have to look more into this

        [–]Stythe 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        I found this whole trying to figure out wtf happened to me while I was with my last ex and it explained a lot. I did some searching for unconscious behavioral patterns and found them as well as where they were developed. From there, learning to be okay with failing became a huge part of my life. It still is.

        [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        I know it. The problem is, then you break frame publicly and the legal consequences can be pretty horrendous. I try to think of guys like this as the Westboro Baptist Church...the more you express anger at them, the more their power grows because you're acknowledging they affect you.

        [–]royal_fucktard 0 points1 point  (1 child)

        Reading about that creep in the story made me want to hit him with a baseball bat, bear jew style.

        If I was OP in this situation a genuine beat down would have ensued as I cannot hold frame nor tolerate such bitch behavior out of a man.

        [–]Spidertech500 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        OP Is a wiser man than most

        [–]1KissTheBridesmaid 8 points9 points  (2 children)

        I fucking hate there guys who show up after a fight and act all tough like they were the ones who sorted it out. In the balkans there's a saying: 'after the war, everyone's a hero'

        [–]caesarfecit 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        That's a good saying. The chicken-hawks always show up after it's been decided.

        [–]Manmore 4 points5 points  (2 children)

        Even if their damsel in distress doesn't need saving, they're there, just in case.

        I hit a girl I know on the forehead with a fucking balloon in a club, and she was giggling and hugging me. IMMEDIATELY a white knight comes up to me.

        "Don't hit women!!!!"

        "It's a fucking balloon"

        "It's not about that, it's about the fact that you are hitting her. Blablabla violence against women and patriarchy stuff, displaying of power"

        Even the girl told him to fuck off

        [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        A balloon? Jesus...these guys are getting thirsty.

        [–]Stythe 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        You should have beaten his ass with a balloon. That'll learn em.

        [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

        thats true, but the guy brought the situation on himself 100%. there are crazy retarded bitches out there, but i bet if this girl was with someone who wasnt a beta faggot she wouldnt act up like this

        he helped encourage her to get to this level, and even to the point where she thinks hitting him is ok. i cant even imagine how beta you have to be where she can consider hitting you and not be terrified of the outcome.

        and then when you add in white knights, you never will have a chance to get back to where you should have been in the relationship because she wont tolerate you 'rising up' and her beta fuckboys will try to stop you

        OP fucked up as well, you dont want to be around that situation. you dont want to 'help' the beta boyfriend, because even he was defending the gf that beat him up. you dont want to be around a crazy bitch like that. honestly, you dont even want a plate who brings trash like that around you. the retarded gf could have started hitting OP and whiteknights wouldve said OP was the guilty one, there's some jailtime.

        lesson - dont associate with betas/bitches like this. at all

        [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Reading this you picture so many fucking AFC's at the club who do shit like this. So fucking thirsty and pathetic. Like has that ever worked for them for a girl who's above a 4? So fucking wack.

        [–][deleted]  (1 child)

        [deleted]

          [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          This is hollywood in a nutshell.

          [–]squidracer 61 points62 points  (6 children)

          Sounds like your FWB wants commitment. That's why her friend was bugging you about it. Most likely something they talked about amongst themselves

          [–]tyrryt 15 points16 points  (0 children)

          They're all looking for commitment, always, no matter what they say.

          [–]ColdEiric 26 points27 points  (1 child)

          I'm sure that her friend was recruited to push commitment from him. If she would have done her instead, she'd be a sad FWB looking to upgrade. But now when her friend did it for her, she could pretend that she didn't want it.

          [–]Squeezymypenisy 18 points19 points  (0 children)

          The last conversation at night and lmr seemed to indicate she wants it. She was challenging op to see how he would take the player moniker.

          [–]Senior ContributorSkorchZang 9 points10 points  (1 child)

          Of course she wants it. Been in similar "relationship interrogation" situations before, always starts innocent enough but the essense of it is aggressively shaming a man into submission to the feminine imperative. And conveniently, it seems to only happen when "she is ready". Tongue in cheek we could note here how, when I was ready to fuck, not a single woman or man was anywhere in sight to shame my plate about not sleeping with me soon enough. But NOW they all magically come out of the woodwork when the plate is ready to commit, like clockwork.

          I wasn't as handy at defusing it with A&A as OP here was, damn the guy was good. In my situation, I responded by trying to shut the interrogation down - "none of your business" etc. That was not a wise move in hindsight, I almost lost a plate, because the public shaming from her 2 friends gave her the excuse to get bitter at me afterward and "feel like she deserves more".

          These fucking bitches.

          [–]fingerthemoon 3 points4 points  (0 children)

          "I want to get back together but I don't know what to tell my friends." - My last LTR

          She had a tendency to complain about me to the point where her friends talked her into ending it. She's now 31 and with a 'good on paper' guy who gives her zero tingles. I'm the asshole who was good in bed but not husband material.

          None of her friends are attractive to me and know they could never be with a guy like me. Crabs in a bucket. I think my ex was the only one of her friends getting good sex on the regular. They hate me for no other reason than being independent and in control of my life. I wasn't worthy because I wouldn't commit, even though I proposed I wouldn't go through with the marriage until some things had changed and we'd been engaged for 3 years at that point. Feel like I dodged a bullet as I ill never be getting married now that I better understand.

          Now that I think of it, her younger sister is definitely fuckable and she used to admire my skills, especially with dog training. She has a really good looking husband who is a personal trainer but apparently the sex sucks and he doesn't please her. I know she wanted to fuck me, especially after her sister telling her how good the sex was. I was surprised that she turned on me ass well. Maybe it was a jealousy thing?

          [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          probably, she seems loyal and enjoys passing and proving her loyalty to OP which is usually a sign she wants the "next step'

          [–]michael_wilkins 17 points18 points  (20 children)

          Why would you not call the cops on her anyway?

          [–][deleted] 39 points40 points  (13 children)

          Sadly it's dangerous. As OP said there were people who started to have the story in their head that the girl got beat up.

          [–]Mofocheez 22 points23 points  (1 child)

          And if a male is getting beat up by a woman, he will be seen as worthless by any bystanders as well as the police officers who respond.

          Literally nobody gives a shit about a guy that weak.

          [–]Sementeries 5 points6 points  (0 children)

          Hopefully the boyfriend gets his shit together and dumps that wench.

          [–]PeanutFlavor 1 point2 points  (9 children)

          I think that's a cop-out though. Two people who personally know the couple fighting and know the motives etc would probably cancel out any of the shit some random bystanders could say. Yeah greater numbers, but the quality of evidence isn't on par. OP and his FWB can recount the entire night of the other couple. Add to that you've got a coed POV. Win.

          [–]Mofocheez 7 points8 points  (2 children)

          Two people who know the couple? You mean OP, a fellow man and member of The Patriarchy™, and OP's fwb? The fwb who is friends with abusive female?

          I don't see the fwb helping the woman flip the script into "he beat her first" but would probably not involve herself in the discussion period. Look at her words: "she could get arrested."

          At best, you have two males who claim that this girlfriend started the physical altercation, a silent female, a crying female who was just "abused" and bystanders filling in whatever gaps are left.

          That might sound like a cop-out to you if you've never had the cops called on an abusive female. I have. You're armchair quarterbacking.

          [–]PeanutFlavor 0 points1 point  (1 child)

          It's not as though the FWB was actively siding with her friend. Using the anecdote, it seemed quite the opposite actually. I also have doubts the law would take a bunch of riled-up white knights too seriously should they have been able to speak up. There'd have been holes in the story. Lots of them. But then again, this is the UK so there's intricacies at play that I'm not authorized to speak on. Just my 5c.

          As for the armchair quarterbacking...making uneducated assumptions about the personal life of a stranger is not really a great idea.

          [–]Mofocheez 4 points5 points  (0 children)

          Dude, the cuts, scratches, and active bleeding from my own girl beating my ass wasn't enough for the police to act. Hell, they even told me straight up that it was my fault.

          Are you fucking kidding me right now? At best, the cops do nothing. At worst, the dude is getting canned for it. Been there, done that.

          [–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

          You obviously have never dealt with the police in the UK... They'd be questioned for hours and at the end no charges would be pressed.

          [–]1raceAround126[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

          I have dealt with the police in the UK. As both a bouncer and (unfortunately) a customer.

          There is a good cross-section of UK cops who are straight-up and good natured individuals. They know how where and when to apply the law and when to apply concession and are fine serving officers.

          The sad fact is there are also more than a few cops - and i would hazard a guess that I'm referring to 50% if not more - that are complete pieces of shit. They are either completely braindead or have zero ability to interpret statements or evidence they are presented with. Those 50% are desperate to make an arrest or a charge maybe because their numbers are down (I don't know that, just a theory) or they are just power-crazed fucks who are the ultimate white knights. They have no interest in public safety, just enjoying their power.

          The fact is if I had had called the cops, it would have been the boyfriend getting arrested. I know that myself from bouncer work in London. It's just automatic. I also know that if you are unfortunate enough to run into a piece of shit cop, he will do his best to nick you sometimes even for shit you didn't do. And technically in this situation, I may well have been exposing myself.

          This is just straight up fact. The situation on Friday night was volatile enough with the by-standing Samaritans trying to shove their tiny dicks into the situation. Introducing cops would have increased that volatility ten-fold.

          Added to that, after speaking to my FWB, I can assure you that while she would not lie outright I think it's unlikely she would do anything to incriminate her friend. In fact, I honestly doubt the boyfriend would have gotten her in trouble either.

          I think it would well have been my lone word, three walls of silence and a bunch of "witnesses" who "saw the whole thing". I had my suspicions of this during the event itself and I was right by the sounds of it.

          [–]VelociReactor 10 points11 points  (1 child)

          In some cases (domestic disputes) it's required that the man be arrested regardless of the situation.

          Unless you have video evidence or substantial support from friends/bystanders it's better to not call the cops unless you can't handle the situation yourself.

          [–]cariboo_j 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          They'd probably arrest the guy first, ask questions later

          [–]Rogue-Knight2 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          honestly, fuck cops.

          On another note, the dude who got punched by his girl like a little bitch could have called the cops if he wanted to. It's not OP's job to save anyone.

          I was hoping the FR was going to end with "she starts hitting him so I drove home, far, far away from drama"

          [–]Endorsed ContributorBluepillProfessor 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          If the dude had blood on his face I would have called the cops in a second. Women do this ALL the time.

          [–]ECoast_Man 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Why bother?

          He was there, helped the dude out. Why spend the next two hours hanging out at the scene and then giving a statement?

          Fact of the matter is, beta needs to break up with the bitch. He would be better off hanging out with him than getting the 5-0 involved.

          [–]FinallyRed 13 points14 points  (3 children)

          God I can't believe the white knight paradigm. How do they expect to snag pussy in such situations? It shows a complete lack of understanding about women and social interaction. Also I recommend you use fake names for clarity. A bunch of pronouns kept getting jumbled.

          [–]OwlsExterminator 9 points10 points  (1 child)

          They want public recognition not immediate pussy. It's a hero complex, they stand up for an apparent victim and society pats him on the back.

          [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          I wish God was real in these situations. And just came in like:

          Thou art subverting justice. Thy White Knight Faggot angel bashes his face in til it's unrecognizable. And now, may thou be a hero.

          [–]Osoto_Gari 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Watch videos of fights on YouTube - it's very common for heroes to show up and break up the fight when the "good" guy starts winning. Whilst the bad guy is winning or has won - no one does a thing

          [–]Sdom1 11 points12 points  (1 child)

          The most ridiculous part was how the boyfriend was the only one with injuries, and opportunistic fuckstains were looking for an excuse to jump on him after that. This reminds me of why I'm glad I don't party that much anymore, dumb people pulling you into dumb situations.

          [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          The dude standing there? How would that situation have even led to him ever getting pussy? Like even if there's infinite universes, I don't see one where that gets him laid.

          Oh thank you for standing nearby, I'll leave this guy I went out with for this random faggot who stood awkwardly nearby in a parking lot!

          [–]Endorsed ContributorBluepillProfessor 11 points12 points  (0 children)

          Women demand equality knowing full well that men favor women and women favor women and knowing that "equality" is not "equal" at all. They like it that way.

          [–]uxl 8 points9 points  (0 children)

          You did amazingly well. Probably better than I would have done in your shoes. Hindsight is 20/20, but I wish you would have recorded the attack AND called the cops. Get that cunt behind bars for the legit assault that men so often are falsely accused of.

          [–]MAX_Fury 5 points6 points  (2 children)

          so the plate's friend was mad at you for having a FWB with her friend, hahaha, so did the guy who got beaten up go back to his psycho gf?

          [–]1raceAround126[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

          I have no idea, I've not asked. My FWB left about an hour ago and I'm onto other things now.

          [–][deleted]  (2 children)

          [deleted]

          [–]PaperbackParrot 3 points4 points  (0 children)

          You have to surround yourself with enough woman (and men, for different reasons) to where you experience this multiple times with different people (i.e. woman). Remember, you are fighting possibly THE most powerful emotion any man has: Protecting woman. This is good for keeping the "tribe" alive, but terrible because woman manipulate this for their personal gain. It's understandable.

          [–]stop_talking_ 9 points10 points  (0 children)

          She got mad at her boyfriend for not being able to turn her on like you did.

          [–]Endorsed ContributorMentORPHEUS 5 points6 points  (0 children)

          Top-tier FR, OP; great job writing.

          I notice critics in the comments about OP not going straight to calling the police. He used this credible threat to obtain the necessary defusing and control of the situation, without going over.

          I can't speak for the UK, but in the USA, it's like the police aren't there for peace and justice, but to get SOMEONE into the system and to ultimately keep them there by any means. OP did right by keeping the police out unless absolutely necessary.

          [–]Statecensor 3 points4 points  (1 child)

          Why do you assume your FWB and her friend did not work this out beforehand? Its an extremely common chick tactic and its a lot more likely then her friend just coming out of noplace with these questions. Your FWB's nervous behavior could be from being embarrassed she had to use another woman to get you to try and commit to her. I suspect this is less a FWB chick and more likely one that is hungry for you to take it to the next level in her eyes. I suspect her reaction towards her boyfriend came from being embarrassed she could not get you to trap yourself into making this FWB a LTR and his refusal to treat you as a dick and support her.

          Keep an eye on this FWB she could start to turn rotten because of wanting more then FWB from you.

          [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Thaaaaat's what the fight was about.

          [–]clozedcasketz 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          Brilliant read OP. I find it quite sad that women feel entitled to lash out in a psychopathic fury at men because they've been conditioned not to hit them. It's like, "Oh, he's not gonna hit me, so I can go ballistic on him, and I can even claim to be the victim." If that friend had half a brain and some basic logic, she would have taken the situation in a non-physical manner, and most certainly not in a public place. Fuckin whore...

          I personally would never hit a lady, but I'm not afraid to pummel the living shit out of a bitch such as that friend. Good call with dialing the cops threat, it put her in her place for sure.

          [–]Senior ContributorSkorchZang 2 points3 points  (1 child)

          Props on handling it so very well, and describing in detail so all can pick up their own lessons from it.

          I think you do unconsciously realize the "boyfriend" got your beating for you, he took one for team man. That's why you helped, going out of your way. All that ugly ass rage was just redirected at him since you were not available. Fucking crazy that the FWB was going to put that bitch in your car man, it would've spelled absolute disaster if she still had more fight left in her.

          [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          She offers the ride too? What makes you assume I want a crazy bitch in my presence, the hell?

          [–]1KissTheBridesmaid 2 points3 points  (1 child)

          We all know how women despise weak men and your strong frame was a grim reminder of her boyfriends comparative weakness. Initially she took this out on you, but once you left her alone with the true subject of her disgust she fucking lost it. Great FR and good frame holding on your part.

          [–][deleted]  (2 children)

          [removed]

          [–]ECoast_Man 0 points1 point  (1 child)

          Disagree. This isn't the men's rights sub. We are all well aware of the pussy pass here.

          Why should he have done that? Stuck around, for hours, given a police statement, when nothing would come of it.

          You know why this is pointless? Is because the victim in this case wouldn't fucking cooperate with officials, even if this was a good decision.

          I stand by that he handled this perfectly, and if anything should have done less to help the dude. However, if we are going to go down the altruism road, he should have taken the guy aside, got his number and started the dark initiation to the red pill. This domestic violence situation wouldn't be stopped by the cops, but by the dude growing a set.

          [–]alpha_trainer 15 points16 points  (38 children)

          How the fuck did you resist now breaking that whiny white knight bones?I get it that one can disrespect me once and I will ignore,but 3 times no fucking way.

          [–]1raceAround126[S] 77 points78 points  (30 children)

          Where would that get me. Ignoring him and remaining unresponsive was far more effective.

          [–][deleted]  (1 child)

          [deleted]

            [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            Exactly, he will look like a creepy interloper or a child being ignored.

            [–]alpha_trainer 4 points5 points  (25 children)

            I don't know what to say.Disrespect really gets to me and in open situations it's worse.

            [–][deleted] 56 points57 points  (16 children)

            The problem is it breaks frame. If you take the time to dignify the little shithead with a response, it means what he's doing is working. OP ignoring him was good, if OP engages whiteknight can escalate the situation for the moral good of "protecting women." By refusing to engage, whiteknight would have to escalate unprovoked making himself the aggressor and ruining the social image he is trying to cultivate in an effort to get pussy.

            I've said it before, alphas should only ever fight/argue with other alphas. If you start a fight with a beta it will end badly. When you beat him up you're a bully, if you lose to him you weren't really an alpha. There aren't really any good outcomes.

            [–]alpha_trainer 0 points1 point  (15 children)

            This may be true,but I bet that if you said to the guy in a cold manner,not angry just grounded"What did you say to me?Say again."he would either mumble something and left or left bc betas never want direct confrontation with stronger guys or bigger guys.Betas are passive,so there is no need to actually beat him,just command that slave to get out.

            [–]1raceAround126[S] 39 points40 points  (5 children)

            I don't agree. If I had antagonized him with that, he would have pulled out that other beta trait of throwing himself under the bus if it meant showing face to pussy.

            He would have responded in such a way to challenge me back only to get physical. This is what white knights want. They want to be able to get up after getting knocked down with an, "Oh my, I was just talking, look what this savage did to me. Police! ARREST THAT MAN!"

            Confronting a white knight does nothing. Responding to a confrontation to people like that achieves nothing. AdmittedlyI learned that trick while I was a bouncer in London. You learn the stare doing a role like that. Either by watching other guys who have been in the game a long time, or the hard way by engaging dickheads like this.

            The thing to remember is any confrontation with a white knight, the confrontation exists because you are already in charge. He wants to challenge that authority and to do so make you look weak. Even if it means taking a beating which he may well have provoked.

            The dynamic changes if, and only if:

            • He throws the first hit

            • You respond with appropriate force only which does not mean belting several shades of shit out of him. An open fist to the side of the head is usually all that's needed

            • Everybody sees. And I mean everyone. So they know the beta was the aggressor and he picked a fight he couldn't finish. You are more "alpha" if you like because you only did what was necessary to put things to an end.

            But all of that is last resort. Ignoring completely and maintaining body language is usually all that is required.

            [–]kragshot 14 points15 points  (1 child)

            I have to admit that back in my bouncer and con security days, I had the most fun smacking around white knights. It would never fail; some psycho chick would either slap some guy, throw a drink in his face, or otherwise assault the fellow. The guy, of course would respond in some manner. Most guys in that situation will just try to restrain the psycho...hit/slap-backs tend to be rather rare unless you are in some "hive of scum and ratchetness" in "that side of town."

            But if the poor SoB does anything other than take the assault and bow his head in contrition, she starts screaming and crying and everyone comes around and will start in on the poor guy.

            So, being the bouncer, it's my job to break that pile of stupid up before it gets too bad. The easiest thing to do in that case is to pull the guy out of the mix and break visual contact with the psycho. Of course then this is usually when "Captain Save-A-Ho" shows up. It never fails; the dumb bastard will get in my face and scream at me about how I should help him beat the guy's ass. And when I deny him his "righteous wrath" against the "foul varlet," then he tries to challenge me. You will also usually get the "BFF chick" who will try to reach around you to get her cheap shot in on the guy as well.

            In a situation like that, everyone only gets one warning to back off and then it's "two-finger-chop-to-the-throat or open-hand-slap-to-the-eyes time." Meanwhile, the initial victim has backed up and is letting me do my job. He understands that right now, I'm the only thing between him and the psycho and her minions or possible jail.

            Before anyone gets all weepy and defensive, strikes like that do no real harm if you are properly trained (which I am) but instead cause the target to freak out and back off, consequently losing focus on their desire to attack you. You just want the assailant to back the fuck up and give you space. Techniques like that work perfectly and do not cause permanent damage to the target.

            But more times than not, the douchebag who gets thrown out of the bar or kicked out of the con is the white knight who gets involved in some bullshit that a drunk psycho-chick has started up. The idiot is so convinced that by throwing himself out there like that, pussy will just "rain from the heavens" and reward him for his chivalry.

            Side story

            Speaking of "hives of scum and ratchetness," at one "Bucket of Blood" I was working at, I ended up having to save this white knight from getting fucked up when he decided to get in the middle of some genuine "pimp-shit." Pimp was "checking" his bitch for challenging him and fucking up. White knight stepped into "pimp business" not knowing the "P" when it was evident to everyone else.

            He laid hands on the pimp, pimp pulled out a nickel-plated .380 and was about to put one in the guy's head. His bitch had circled behind and pulled out a straight razor with the intention of cutting the dumb bastard who "laid hands on her daddy." Poor motherfucker me got in the middle of that pack of WTF and convinced the pimp that "it wasn't worth getting the police involved" if he shot that bastard. The manager okayed me getting the pimp a bottle on the house so he wouldn't kill the idiot, while I dragged him out of the bar. And the irony was that the dumb fuck was still trying to fight me on it and go back in, not knowing the real and present danger he was in. Fucking white knights...I swear.

            BTW...I got a $250 bonus from the manager that night for defusing what could have been a truly fucked up situation and another $200 from the pimp out of respect.

            [–]plein_old 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            Awesome... my sensei used to say a quick hand towards the face is often the best first move in a real situation. Not to hurt anyone but to get their attention.

            He used to give lessons to cops and bouncers on how to disarm someone without killing them.

            Great story man.

            (edited to add couple details)

            [–]moonlandings 4 points5 points  (2 children)

            You are 100 correct. This is definitely the way to deal with the situation and something I've learned while bouncing as well. My issue is I love fighting. Even if I get my ass kicked it's still fun for me. Hard to turn down an opportunity to scrap.

            [–]aDrunkenWhaler 7 points8 points  (2 children)

            Some betas can be very aggresive and violent. A lot of frustrations built up and if they are physically strong and big they use force to prove their worth. Think of all the guys that turn violent after a few glasses and an unsuccessful night of clubbin. None of those are alpha.

            [–]alpha_trainer 0 points1 point  (1 child)

            Ok guys you truly have to make the distinction between being violent and being assertive.They are two very different things.All of you here are thinking about beating the guy when I clearly did not suggested that.Ofc drunk fuck ups aren't alpha and in that situation is best to avoid.But in Op situation,is a different case.If the guy turned violent agains you when you telled him to fuck off and hit you,there is no consequence as you only defend yourself and have witnesses.I don't preach beating the guy,but trust me,being assertive is the way to go especially in public.Op acted ok,I have no issue with ignoring as a valid strategy,but don't fuck my words up.I suggested being assertive not being violent,big difference.

            [–]aDrunkenWhaler 3 points4 points  (0 children)

            "What did you say to me? Say again." Is a passive-aggressive reply that can backfire if the guy has backup or he's looking for trouble. And most likely he has and he is, or at least believes that he can take you on, otherwise he won't be so aggressive in his 'white knighting'. Saying that line has a better chance of amplifying the situation than to defuse it, no matter how calmly you say it or how grounded you seem. OP did the right thing.

            [–]Infinitezen 1 point2 points  (3 children)

            One day, you might get your ass kicked for no reason if you start fights for no reason. Alternately, you might kick someones ass and face real legal trouble for it. Neither is worth it.

            [–]alpha_trainer -2 points-1 points  (2 children)

            No one started a fight.If you don't assert yourself you will never be respected.I don't go looking for fights but I respect myself enough not to take shit.Having a guy talk all over me is taking shit,and that is not the way I like to live.

            [–]ECoast_Man 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            Not true at all. I know a ton of betas who would respond with this with even more shit.

            I have a theory for this - The primary reason is that schools have done away with bullying. Now, these skinny douches think they can lip off to anyone and there will be no retaliation. Bullying had an important role in teaching people not to lip off to others. Now we have an army of skinny betas attacking everyone online and in person.

            Now, it doesn't mean don't give one a smack when its deserved. I just don't think what you're saying would shut them up.

            [–]SinisterSwindler 5 points6 points  (1 child)

            Learn a lesson from me, I broke frame and broke a guys arm. As a result i was arrested, put on bail and am now homeless. Frame is everything.

            [–]Squeezymypenisy 8 points9 points  (1 child)

            How old are you? Have you ever dealt with a civil suit? Or an assault charge? All of what you are saying will lead to those 2 outcomes.

            [–]alpha_trainer 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            I didn't deal with an assault charge because I know how to look for cameras and don't fight in public.An I am 6'1 100 kg muscular,so I rarely get challanged.Now,I didn't say assault the guy,just intimidate him because of your stature and way of being.Asking him in a grounded way What did you say is not assault.

            [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

            I feel you so hard man this shit pissed me off, that doofy faggot standing there, so fucking thirsty for a whif of pussy that he cums his pants when he smells a bitch's perfume as she walks by.

            But by NOT acknowledging him at all, you make him feel worthless. Make him feel like a silly interloper. He's a child yelling for attention and not getting any. It's even better that way.

            [–]WillWorkForLTC 1 point2 points  (1 child)

            Yeah chances are that white knight would respond like most people to our aggression: he would fuck off. The odd chance he fights back just let him swing first and then you're defending yourself.

            You don't want a fight folks but trust me, others want it even less than you.

            [–]alpha_trainer 2 points3 points  (0 children)

            90%of the time he would run like the little bitch he is.

            [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            I agree with you but in OPs situation it would just make things more complicated

            [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            I had been wondering the same thing. It's a pretty admirable response. I might have snapped on him, but you're right that would only have escalated the situation, and could even cast more blame on the boyfriend by proxy if you (the other man in the scene) looks violent, too. You made the right choice in just ignoring him--and I've learned something from this story, so thank you

            [–]ECoast_Man 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            Correct answer. You're on a roll.

            White knight beta faggots are best to be ignored. If things get testy I black knight them by calling them a fag or something. But that's like one in 99 (since the vast majority of men are white knight beta fags).

            [–]ColdEiric 12 points13 points  (0 children)

            When you stop giving a shit about morons, their nonsensical opinions, their cluelessness, you don't care about them and how they feel about things.

            I'm a 'nerd', so I've spent years of being alone and odd and socially unaware and haven't understood shit, so I have spent enough time alone to not care about silly opinions. Disrespect from people I deem to be of lower intelligence and lower understanding doesn't bother me as much.

            It's merely a question of 'Will I make the choice to care about this person's opinion of me and mine? Is it important for me to give a shit about this? Is this person's influence critical to my future?'

            Yes, disrespect hurts and I prefer respect. But disrespect from a stupid white knight, from someone whose IQ is less than mine, from someone who lack wisdom or sense, from someone who isn't worth the time and energy to listen to, that's bearable to me.

            In this FR, there were other more valuable things to focus on for OP. Seeking and begging for and working to get respect from morons, it just doesn't make your life better.

            [–]putin_vor 2 points3 points  (0 children)

            Ok, so you beat up a guy in front of a dozen witnesses, they call the cops, you get booked, you will likely plead guilty, you get a criminal record and probably prison time, he sues you for pain and suffering and lost wages.

            You need to learn to control your violent behavior. Use your brain.

            [–]Rogue-Knight2 2 points3 points  (0 children)

            back it up.

            What OP wanted: nice night out, sex.

            What OP got: annoying night out, stupid shit, sex

            What you suggest: annoying night out, stupid shit, fighting random assholes, maybe sex?

            ... you're allowed to fight whoever you want, but I doubt that's your plan when you leave the house. If you alter your plan because of stupid assholes you come off as a sensitive and quick to violence type.

            Do you look up to men who are sensitive and quick to violence? Seriously, write down the names of like... 3 of the men you'd like to be like. If they're famous they have cameras in their face every day. Paparazzi calling them assholes for not getting good shots.

            Are these men in the news frequently for beating the shit out of people?

            No. No they're not. The men you admire/aspire to don't do the things you're suggesting.

            Know who insists that disrespect must ABSOLUTELY be met with violence? Inmates.

            [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (2 children)

            fighting is a break in frame.

            alpha behaviour doesn't need to fight anyone, it's only when the alpha lion is getting challenged for his position that it happens there.

            you're also not talking about respect/disrespect, but ego. and ego is never your friend

            [–][deleted]  (1 child)

            [deleted]

            [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            I wish there was a serial killer who preyed specifically on White Knights

            [–]idahar[🍰] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

            Every time I hear stories like this where a white knight jumps in and assumes the worst of the man and is ready to throw fists, I get furious. I lose all frame and all I can think of is how I would smash the guy's skull into the pavement so hard even plastic surgery couldn't have helped him. And you know why I'm angry? It's not because he's an assumptive idiot fucking with other people's business, but because I would have been that same assumptive idiot had I not changed. I would've been the same guy who comes in thinking he knows best. I'm so angry for feminized society having turned me into their personal beta pet for nearly 20 years under the guise of "doing the right thing" and "women should never be hit." Every time I hear about beta orbiters and thirsty white knight pussies beating up a guy because he dumped some chick or hard swiped her, I wish I could be there to help the guy and beat the shit out of those fucking plugged in cucks, so they may actually realize they've been played by some overemotional princess complex bitch and wake the fuck up. Inb4 edgy teen. I'm just going through the anger phase. (Extreme anger phase)

            [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            It makes me irrationally mad, too.

            [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            White knights actually scare women.

            I wonder how much of this is the tendency to put on a false-front of being a nice guy and caring about her, while secretly wanting to monopolise abuse of her.

            [–]Soldier_of_Misfortun 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            Several points: 1. Wow. 2. This, to me, emphasizes again how entwined self-confidence and self-control are. 3. The 'friend' was not just attacking the boyfriend. She was doing to him what she wanted to do to you and your plate as well. Poor bastard was a stand-in for her psychotic-break triggered by a situation in which the world did not conform to her well-ordered doll house. 4. I don't see how you could possibly have handled this situation better beginning-to-end, including not leaving said 'white knight' a pile of ad-mix to the asphalt. 5.The fact you didn't even buckle in the slightest to offer a 'hey, I see your point, but what we have works for us, just like I'm sure your relationship works for you' or something similarly innocuous (on the surface) shows a rock-solid frame. 6. The knee-jerk reaction remains: Violent interaction between man and woman equals man's fault. Never forget that. Never escalate. You can't win. 7. See point 1.

            [–][deleted]  (1 child)

            [deleted]

            [–]Momo_dollar 1 point2 points  (2 children)

            https://youtu.be/XNrWuZV3jjw social experiment when a woman abuses a man and he restrains her.

            [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

            cuz we need more rage in this thread

            [–]Momo_dollar 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            Only rage I see is in the bullyng white knighr who attacks the guy at the end, when previously watching and laughing.

            [–]NidStyles 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            Your existence threatened her control of him. You were the reason she lost it. She was seeing her "friend", women are never really friends with each other, get something she wanted, and you threatened the control of her relationship with that dude.

            She's my kind of bitch :-)

            [–][deleted]  (1 child)

            [deleted]

            [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

            "Sod that we should just call the cops on her now!"

            • You and I both know had they actually responded, it would be you and your friend who would have went to jail.

            Think: what better way to "put you in your place" then to invent a DV story where two mean, assertive guys ganged up on one innocent little female?I don't think she planned the fight, but there's a reason she was swinging. How many fights would YOU start if you knew 99% of cops wouldnt jail you no matter what?

            The FWB might take your side....or take her friends. Either way youd be going downtown with your buddy. The shit might get cleared up in court....or youd have to plea bargain to avoid getting fucked by the system.

            Next; this sounds like a scheme which got out of hand. The FWB didn't invite you to go with this girl and her BF for kicks. It's total "Double Date " frame, and it was done for a reason. FWB doesn't sound dumb- she knows directly confronting a high value dude about commitment is a signal for you to pull the EJECT lever on the whole shebang.

            So, she has her friend play the Bag Man. She's the one assigned with the ugly but necessary duty of shit testing your status and extorting commitment from you. Where things went awry is you making fun of the girl and her BF taking your side. The Bag Man lost her shit instead of staying on mission.

            General rule of thumb; there is a time limit on all FWB interactions. Female/male associations are always transactional. As such, women know all too well instinctually about opportunity cost. Every moment with you costs your FWB potential access to a high value BetaBucks she could be plating instead, which means even the smoothest players might get a year out of things before the "Plomo o Plata" speech. That's a Spanish phrase meaning "lead or silver", and that's the endgame of every FWB after a certain point . Either you continue the relationship by offering her the Plata , Silver. Or you execute the interaction by walking (the lead).

            From now on, in your shoes I'd make plans for the Plomo o Plata speech any day now, especially with her friend having blown up publicly like that. If you've got any shared accounts ,belongings, etc change or retrieve them now.The fact that your FWB used Law 26 should clue you in to the fact she is not to be underestimated.

            [–]Endorsed ContributorMentORPHEUS 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            Useful info in general, but I think you really misread OP's specific situation. Thanks for introducing the concept of plomo o plata.

            [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child)

            Well you Americans and Brits. I know we from Eastern Europe are too aggressive sometimes. On the other hand you seem too meek to us.

            But if this happened to ANY man here who isn't basement dweller, that bitch would get a really good slap to calm down a bit and white knights would also get their portion as well.

            [–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 2 points3 points  (1 child)

            Very good work all round OP, but you failed to correctly ascertain the Primary Aggressor. You have clearly not been properly police trained. Go through this checklist until you find the correct protagonist, and make sure to get him arrested next time:

            • Identify owner of penis

            [–]2rp_valiant 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            Very well handled OP. It sounds like the shit could've hit the fan at multiple points but your firm control of the situation prevented it from escalating any further. It just goes to show that women and betas/WKs alike need a strong masculine presence to keep their emotions in check. I just feel sorry for the boyfriend - I've known guys that took a few swings from their girlfriends and stayed with them, and I hope he doesn't. I bet he will though, scarcity mentality is a scary thing to watch.

            [–]Surf_Or_Die 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            You owned the situation. Nothing else could have been done in this day and age. A couple of decades ago the boyfriend could have slapped the shit out of the psycho bitch to make her calm down but alas we don't live in that time anymore.

            It really sounds to me like she got jealous because her friend found somebody much more alpha than she did.

            [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

            Some guys like to take a beating. My wife's best friend has beat on her boyfriend more than a few times. And he's a tall guy. Last time it happened I asked him how he could be so pathetic. My wife chimed in about the one time she punched me in the lung after a weird fight where she sat on my back after I left the bedroom and laid down on the floor in another room (now I just go to a hotel room).

            I looked at her and asked her if she remembered what I said. She replied "the next time is the last time." Just because I'm big and tough and have a bunch of scars, doesn't mean I'll be disrespected by a man or woman. The wife didn't mention it was because she caught me cheating while we were getting it on with another woman. The poor bitch beta only looked at us in disbelief and said something like "if Ariel let me sleep with other women then I'd take beating ocassionally." I replied back, "and that's why you are pathetic. A man takes what is his and doesn't apologize."

            [–]Eli-Thail 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            The poor bitch beta

            My wife chimed in about the one time she punched me in the lung after a weird fight where she sat on my back after I left the bedroom and laid down on the floor in another room (now I just go to a hotel room).

            Ahah, oh wow.

            Yeah, you're certainly taking what's yours there, lad, running away to hotels so that your wife doesn't pin you again.

            [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

            "Men in England will act just as white-knight as you Americans it seems."

            I lived in the UK for three years. Its worse there than here in the U.S. People in this day and age don't understand the concept of minding their own business but its worse in Europe and the UK.

            [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

            Maybe it's the guns that make the difference. We have a little voice in the back of our heads about strangers that sometimes keep up from intervening...in case he's packing.

            [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            I think that may play a small role. But i think its more sutble than that. The US has always had a more independant culture, a predisposition to handle ones own buisness. As time goes on this has been wrung out of the culture untill it is a shadow of its former self. (Thanks feminists and fascists!) Even so its still noticeable in a general comparison of european and american culture. (Gun ownership would be another example)

            [–]RPmatrix 3 points4 points  (4 children)

            mate you handled that superbly! respect.

            The only thing you might have done earlier was to go the A&A route with your FWB and start saying "hey babe let's get married, Vegas, tomorrow!" and start playing the 'forever committed charade', it sounds' like your FWB would've played along and that night have diffused that BPD bitches flipping!

            well played, nonetheless. Are you an Aussie bro?

            [–]dogextraordinaire 4 points5 points  (3 children)

            He's British by the sounds of it.

            [–]drummmmmergeorge 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            I could see a couple of people who had watched the whole thing. Now that FWB and I had shown up, that's when they decided to come over to "help". Fucking pussies.

            You can't expect people to aid you in a forbiddantic fight, as you did, watching for two minutes. Bystander effect, is a real pushover. Especially in China, due to public policy.

            I'm surprised you even tolerated that. I used to hang out with idiots and have idiotic problems arise, but that's all in the past now. Smooth sailing for here on out. Hope you learned your lesson.

            [–]J_AsapGem 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            " The same white knight, obviously on the hunt for pussy " lol this made my day.

            [–][deleted]  (1 child)

            [deleted]

            [–]1raceAround126[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

            What was he to do though? I think he behaved as perfectly as could be. He was in public, people were watching, he had no option but to put up with it. Had he thrown a punch back, guarantee ten guys would have been holding him down waiting for the cops to come.

            It isn't about pussying out, it's about realizing consequences.

            Sensibly he took my advice and phoned a friend to go and stay with. Hopefully his friend and him will have talked about what happened and if has any sense, he would be making plans to get her out of his life completely. No recourse, no explanation.

            [–]NiceTryDisaster 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            A+ post. Thanks for writing and sharing it.

            [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            Looks like you handled this one really well. It's always a little frustrating to see how the general pop handles girls/guys when they're fighting in public.

            [–]enkae7317 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            Good, solid read.

            Bitches be crazy.

            [–]redkick 0 points1 point  (1 child)

            As an idea, when you're trying to defuse the situation, tell your FWB to get her cellphone out and make a video. This solves two issues: It gets her out of the way, and you can prove that you didn't hit the offender (or that it was pure self defense when you do land a hit) to the prosecutor.

            [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            And she gets to be told what to do...AND she gets to use her fucking phone...AAAND she gets to feel part of the team. Dude she wouldn't hesitate to do that. It's one of those times you tell someone to do something, but it's kind of a fun task so they immediately do it.

            [–]Boovs4life 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            One of the best FRs I've read here in a while. Saving this for future reference.

            [–]we_need_more_lumber 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            This post is full of faces that I want to punch.

            [–]carnage_panda 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            Anyone will attack you if provoked enough. If I go over to my friend's house and start busting his TV, set fire to his couches and burn the whole thing down, I'm certain he'd fight me.

            [–]mugatucrazypills 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            Fucking animal Safari out there. Don't get out of the car.

            [–]sodainthewatercup6 0 points1 point  (1 child)

            In the west, they would have cuffed the boyfriend had you called 911.

            [–]1raceAround126[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            They would have done that in the UK too which was the one thing holding me back. I have seen that enough times as a bouncer.

            [–]ECoast_Man 0 points1 point  (2 children)

            I think this is one for the vault. I actually had a full comment doing a play-by-play, but it was just me saying - you handled that perfectly over and over. So let's keep this as concise as possible.

            I can't reiterate this enough - you obviously know how to maintain frame. I don't know what you did to get your FWB to recognize that, but you were clearly the high value man to all involved in this conversation. Great deflections, great shit test responses - well done.

            These bitches are a dime a dozen. From my experience they are alpha-widows or cock-hungry feminists. Both of which hate submissive men (like poncho in this story) and love dominant men. This was clear. It seems obvious that YOU were the topic of conversation of the whole night, which literally brought her to blows with her beta.

            Another observation- this wasn't a pure beta (like the fag white knight). He dreams of being a TRP man, but hasn't joined us. If he was a friend of yours (I know he's not) I sense this guy who be a good candidate to be recruited.

            As for the rest of it - you were bearing witness to modern society. Alpha-widowed nutcase whose feelz overcame her, being literally violent over her frustration with her beta, then trying to pussy pass her way out of it. Of course all onlookers blame the dude. This is why women with mental health issues must be avoided at all costs.

            Great FR. Thanks for sharing.

            [–]1raceAround126[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

            Thank you for saying.

            I think it was the Friend pushing more to discuss things out in the open like that.

            As for the boyfriend, I would say you were half right. I think he was a player back in the day, I suppose a natural alpha as we would call it. But this chick was meant to be his settling down thing and I guess he felt he had to relinquish some control. It just seems he had gone too far with it.

            At least he's recognized that what happened to him wasn't acceptable and is noping out of the whole situation.

            [–]ECoast_Man 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            I have very little optimism for the uninitiated. If this guy was a natural alpha, he's almost certainly sticking around because she fucks his brains out to another planet. Many of these types will end up back where they started. But good luck to him.

            Anyways you gotta look out for number one, and I don't have a thing to add.

            Excellent FR. I hope to see more from you.

            [–]javi404 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            Well done sir. Also white knights make me sick.

            [–]Trpidation 0 points1 point  (1 child)

            Would you mind posting the whole uncut video? I would be very interested in hearing the conversation(s) as well as seeing the fight.

            [–]1raceAround126[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            Quite simply due to doxxing, it's not something I am willing to do.

            As it happens, it may be this situation is becoming a legal issue.

            [–]ChildOfTheLostTribes 0 points1 point  (1 child)

            If that man had nothing to lose, it would've been a very different story.

            [–]1raceAround126[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            I think he has his own business or at least trying to start one. Even though it's small, if he had reacted in any way he would have lost what little he had.

            [–]markyLEpirate 0 points1 point  (2 children)

            Hey I want to get a dashcam too but how does it work? Do you install it yourself? What's the model you have and how do you obtain/ delete video to save memory

            [–]1raceAround126[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

            I use the mobius dash cam from eBay. It's really good and discrete, just takes standard USB power. The site sells a cig lighter to USB converter too, but I wired it up to my stereo loom so it comes on with the car.

            The only thing you see is the dashcam itself just to the right of the passenger sun visor and a little black wire going up to the roof. It was a bit of an operation to do a tidy install, I took down the roof lining and the plastic moulding on the A pillar. The wire then runs down the side of the dash, under the glove box and round the back of the dash up towards the stereo loom. Routing it was the biggest pain in the arse, the wiring took all of two minutes. Added to that, USB is self-rectifying so it doesn't matter if you feed it 5v, it's still good.

            The mobius records onto a little transflash card which slots out of the back. You can then view it using anything that plays mpeg. Sound is only OK, but the main good thing is the night shots this camera does. For it's relatively small footprint, it's the best one on the market - at least when I bought it.

            Hope this helps.

            [–]87GNX 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            Top tier state control. Bravo.

            [–]causeandcorrelation 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            It's a lot little late in my part. Just wanted to say that you handled the situation about as well as one can. You de-escalated beta violence and handled the hysteric men as well as the women. Well done

            [–]chad_starr 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            Handled the situation as any man should have. No need to fight random strangers over nothing. Where op went from stand up guy to rp hero is when he wouldn't let fwb get away with defending psycho friend with the "shed been hurt before" line when in actuality she'd just been apha widowed and op's actions were triggering her. Lmao.

            [–]1DetectiveDing-Daaahh 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            Good thing you didn't call the cops. That's literally asking to have White Knights with powers of arrest dispatched to your location.

            [–]Philhelm -1 points0 points  (1 child)

            Anyway, we were going out to the cinema last night and her friend and boyfriend decided they wanted to tag along. Movie over, we're getting some drinks and food from a pub bar thing across the way. I'm busy mainly with my FWB as she gets fun when I make her laugh. Her friend and boyfriend appear normal enough.

            That's not plate territory. I think that sometimes people here stretch the definition of "plate" in order to look good for their RP peers.

            I once knew a woman who, over the course of several years, I could call up on a whim, go to her place, and fuck. We never otherwise talked, we never went out together, we never ate together, we never watched TV together, I never met any of her friends, etc. By my definition, that would be a plate.

            [–]Endorsed ContributorMentORPHEUS 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            No sense quibbling over the semantics of it. Her position in the hierarchy of relationships is somewhere between FWB and "Official Girlfriend." Calling her a plate for purposes of this discussion is fine; in fact arguing for a strict/narrow definition of plate is just being pedantic at this point.

            Polyamorists would call her a secondary; my own love life of parallel long-term main GF and long term plates I would call her a side-girlfriend. OP's story doesn't hinge on such fine granularity of her status.

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