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Red Pill TheoryOn Physical Attraction (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by Senior Endorsed ContributorFieldLine

There seems to be a misconception propagated by all the newbs offering advice in askTRP that I would like to clear up.

Chances are, you don't have stellar genetics. Maybe you don't have a chiseled jaw line. You might have a big nose, or a receding hairline. Maybe you're short. Maybe you have a lisp.

All things equal, do you stand a chance when competing against "Chad"? Of course not. The Red Pill isn't here to feed you some feel-good bullshit about how playing your cards right will always get you laid.

But a piece of the puzzle that is easy to forget is that women perceive the world differently than men. A woman's "rational" opinions and what she is sexually attracted to at any given time are functions of her present emotional state. Guys like when girls fondle their balls. Girls like when guys fondle their minds.

We've all seen guys who are naturally physically attractive, putting in half the amount of effort that you or I would need. (There's nothing wrong with acknowledging that another man is attractive as long as you say "no homo" beforehand.) As men, we can see when we are objectively less attractive than another dude.

Women don't see that. A woman's perception of the world is different than yours. If you say the right things, and behave the right way, she will perceive you to be more attractive than you objectively are.

If she's sexually attracted to you, she'll see you as taller, broader and funnier. If you give her an earth-shattering orgasm, she'll remember your big dick, even if you are under-endowed and didn't get her off through penetration.

Will a guy who is objectively more attractive have an easier time getting laid? Of course.

But women often lack objectivity. Use that.


[–]Andrea-Amilcare 420 points421 points  (27 children)

Holy fuck guys, women have different tastes as well. The woman who wets her panties for Jason Statham will not feel the same for Justin Bieber. The best you can do is max yourself out (Body, style) and play the numbers game.

[–]PreOrgasmGroanLness 98 points99 points  (16 children)

Wish those kinds of comments were upvoted more. People here tend to think one size fits them all but it doesn't and it's also been proved in animal studies. There are females that never go for the most dominating male.

[–][deleted] 21 points22 points  (2 children)

They go for the most dominant male that they have a chance with. Contrary to what is sometimes said in this sub, most women have a somewhat realistic understanding their SMV and they aren't going to waste time chasing someone who's out of their league.

[–]PreOrgasmGroanLness 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Exactly, just as you said. A woman won't automatically go after the most alpha dude like a fucking robot. She has brains, the dude has options, he does not guarantee that he'll take care after her. Women have brains too.

Thank you.

[–]ShotgunTRP 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Dominance is different in different environments.

There's 10's who groupie dj's and bands. There's 10's who groupie weightlifters. There's 10's who groupie actors.

You have to be dominant in the environment you're in. The b-lister ain't getting the quality that Brad Pitt is.

At an edm concert. The roidbros on the floor with perfect hair and beards ain't getting the tail the skinny dj with long scruffy hair and peach fuzz is.

[–]3nebder 26 points27 points  (10 children)

What percentage of females in these studies go for the non-dominant males?

[–]PreOrgasmGroanLness 16 points17 points  (8 children)

I will search for the source, as I'm curious too about the study itself. The percentage though isn't that relevant IMO. The point is, the humans are even more diverse and varied than monkeys. Even men have varied tastes and one man's 10 is another man's 6, appearance-wise. I presume it is the same for women, not appearance-wise but in general. That's why some women will prefer a jacked sports guy, some others an artist, some others a bussinessman dude etc. ofc more than 1 "archetypes" will often be liked by a single woman but she'll definitely prefer one over another if she had the choice. That's why target market is mega important if you want quality (so subjective in this context, right?) people.

[–]ShadowOfAnIdea 16 points17 points  (0 children)

Percentage is exactly the point; parent thread is about playing the numbers.

When we say girls' tastes differ, it means that some like Brad Pitt and some like Ray Lewis. When we say pick a style, it doesn't mean pick whatever. It means pick a style of muscular, attractive, focused, dominant male. That shit's never gonna hurt you and it's worth working toward.

[–]Acquin 6 points7 points  (6 children)

That's why some women will prefer a jacked sports guy, some others an artist, some others a bussinessman dude etc.

This is garbage. Have you even seen the sidebar? Every woman will take at least a somewhat muscular figure over a fat businessman until they hit the wall. Sexual preference is globally embedded in their brains.

[–]omega_fat 36 points37 points  (0 children)

Have you ever seen real life? No one said the busnessman have to be fat, nice strawman here.

[–]this_weeks_account2 22 points23 points  (3 children)

Have you seen the sidebar? Literally everything written is 100% true and applicable in absolutely every situation. There is absolutely no chance it’s wrong and if you aren’t 6’+ with 4% body fat and a maxed out 401k you might as well kill yourself. Never in the history of the world has a woman fucked a musician, artist, fat guy or anything like that.

[–]Mi9937 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Who said the businessman had to be fat? Hes talking about style, persona, lifestyle. Some women find a guy hot in a business suit, some like the mysterious artist, then theres those who like the the brute🤷🏻‍♂️ it is preference mate. Ive seen alot of times where skinnier guys would get more girls numbers than extremely jacked guys.

[–]StraightWhiteMaleLOL 6 points7 points  (0 children)

No they don't all go for the most dominant male. However I would argue that even most betas have at least one alpha trait, and that combined with their other traits, some girls would still find said mostly-beta-guy-with-one-alpha-trait to be attractive and worth pursuing/sticking with. My example would be a gamer chick who's into a fellow gamer guy who is mostly beta but is dominant in the gaming world in some way (guild leader, for example).

[–]antariusz 5 points6 points  (2 children)

The thing that is often forgotten or ignored on TRP is that women do change during their life, because of social pressure on them. The SAME girl that liked Justin Bieber at 15, might now like Jason Statham at 26.

Which is dangerously close to what blue pill advocates say (her tastes evolved). No, her priorities evolved. The same girls that liked good boy Bieber liked bad boy Bieber EVEN MORE.

And the 28-34 year old “gotta compete with my friends to have the cutest baby for social media validation.” Phase of their life ends, and then they will want to hop back on the cock carousel.

So don’t fall for it when you get a girl (in that age range especially) attempting to get you to display more of your beta side. It’s only temporary (a few years) for them, but potentially 18+ years for you.

[–]hb8only 1 point2 points  (0 children)

And the 28-34 year old “gotta compete with my friends to have the cutest baby for social media validation.” Phase of their life ends, and then they will want to hop back on the cock carousel.

that's why I don't even give a chance to women in that range - you can never be sure if she is really attracted or just need to deal with her life situation...

[–]lagerea 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Numbers for sure, I've done very well for myself over the years because I learned how to create tunnel vision when talking to people but that doesn't mean shit if you don't do it to every person you want something from.

[–]PkmnMario 1 point2 points  (0 children)

AndreaAmilcare upvote, excellent comment.

And POGL Comment one size doesn’t fit all brilliant. Even for Chads it’s still a big numbers game, just going in with better odds and a wider net, unless that is commmon knowledge and goes without saying here

[–]Throwawaysteve123456 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No, there's a checklist to follow, and when all the boxes are checked, every woman on the planet wants to fuck you.

[–]U-94 136 points137 points  (35 children)

When I had really long hair - got certain women, had other women as platonic friends.

Got hair cut - suddenly some of those platonic friends were into me.

Hair grew out again - pool of attraction changed again.

All the while I was EXCACTLY THE SAME PERSON, SAME SENSE OF HUMOR, SAME HOBBIES, SAME PHYSIQUE, ETC.

It was all in THEIR minds.

[–]1empatheticapathetic 10 points11 points  (23 children)

Who was into you when you had long hair?

[–]U-94 38 points39 points  (21 children)

Chicks into guys with long hair. It's a hard swing when you have dominating physical feature. Tattoos would be another example. It could be your usual alternative chick or a regular looking college girl. My point is that this superficial aspect of myself (and then again with a regular short haircut) superseded my actual personality.

[–]1empatheticapathetic 7 points8 points  (20 children)

I've always had long hair. I'm balding now so going to cut it soon. I've had essentially zero success with women but I think I've grown into my looks more towards end of my 20s.

Just wondering what the general demographic is for long haired dudes. I wonder if it's my hair that's the issue or something else about me.

[–]PreOrgasmGroanLness 6 points7 points  (19 children)

Just wondering what the general demographic is for long haired dudes.

The best way is to try it out. Experiment with your appearance.

[–]omega_dawg93 11 points12 points  (5 children)

the best thing you can do for your overall appearance is to master the following two things:

  1. learn how to smile, big.

  2. learn how to smirk... a confident one at just the right time. this can be used to pull women to you thru both negative vibes (foolish little girl, be quiet) and positive vibes (i can handle this difficult task... step aside).

[–]1empatheticapathetic 5 points6 points  (4 children)

I disagree. Most women lose attraction once I start smiling. I look better with no expression than smiling. And it's like they've 'won' once I smile, they quickly lose interest.

Smirking is important.

[–]omega_dawg93 1 point2 points  (3 children)

i didn't know i was talking directly to you and abt your smile. i was being general... not specific to you.

women may lose attraction to you for multiple reasons but a smile usually doesn't turn them away.

go see the dentist. lol. j/j.

[–]1empatheticapathetic 3 points4 points  (2 children)

I didn't know you were talking directly to me either. Who told you otherwise?

A smile diminishes the dominant persona they usually project onto me. I'm not attracting with pretty boy looks, and therefore smiles kill the aura I am attracting with.

This is just my theory on my situation, that challenges your assertion that smiling is a great attraction tool. Perhaps not for everyone.

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

[removed]

    [–]1empatheticapathetic 1 point2 points  (12 children)

    well like I said I've had long hair but not found success. So wondering who OP here found success with.

    [–]PreOrgasmGroanLness 2 points3 points  (10 children)

    Ah shit you won't have the chance to check the shorter hair.

    Those girls have unconscious beliefs on what defines a man, or a worthy man, or an attractive man etc. instilled in them in early days. They won't even know why they find long-haired man attractive or not. Try it, dig the why and you won't get true answers besides those that state learned preference.

    IMO you should cut yourself bald right now. I found it liberating. I had long hair at the time, but had all kinds of before, just never completely bald. Don't give any fucks and own it, you'll enjoy it. You may also find that you have a good head shape for being bald

    [–]1empatheticapathetic 3 points4 points  (9 children)

    I will be bald forever soon enough, and i can't really cut it short at this point and get a good cut. I just want to live the last 6 months or so out then i'll probably end up cutting.

    Cheers for the response.

    [–]3nebder 4 points5 points  (2 children)

    Shaving your head opens the demographic of gals really into bald guys yet doesn’t close the door on the rest. Prepare your head to be randomly assaulted in a way that weirds you the fuck out at first. Now I roll with it.

    It’s the I’m balding but holding on to it look that’s terrible. I saw pics of myself and it was bad.

    I get it man. I had my last hoora before I shaved it. It is what it is.

    [–]1empatheticapathetic 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Like I said I will soon. I talk regularly with a bald dude on PM. All he finds is chicks who reject him for baldness, and he's ripped.

    I wear a hat so there's no balding on display.

    [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Lmao, you should have gotten on Propecia and Rogaine, like I did.

    I would be a solid NW7 without them. After two and a half years on Propecia (and less than 1 on Rogaine) I have 95% of the hair I had before I started balding. No lasting side effects. You can barely tell that I was / am ever balding.

    Everytime I see a bald guy now I can't help but laugh. "Should have gotten on Finasteride, you cuck" is what I usually think.

    Do something about your baldness instead of being a depressed balding cuck.

    [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (5 children)

    Lmao, you should have gotten on Propecia and Rogaine, like I did.

    I would be a solid NW7 without them. After two and a half years on Propecia (and less than 1 on Rogaine) I have 95% of the hair I had before I started balding. No lasting side effects. You can barely tell that I was / am ever balding.

    Everytime I see a bald guy now I can't help but laugh. "Should have gotten on Finasteride, you cuck" is what I usually think.

    Do something about your baldness instead of being a depressed balding cuck.

    [–]1empatheticapathetic 0 points1 point  (4 children)

    Lol i am aware of propecia but not interested in risking the side effects.

    Where did i imply i was depressed?

    [–]1SexdictatorLucifer 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    I have long hair and typically it's more clean cut girls tbh. And when I had shirt hair I attracted more "edgy" looking girls.

    [–]RandomePerson 3 points4 points  (3 children)

    So if a man finds a woman more attractive after she dyes her hair blonde or red, does that mean his attraction to the woman was all in his mind and not based in anything objective?

    [–]U-94 2 points3 points  (2 children)

    You're talking men. I'm not.

    [–]RandomePerson 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    But that doesn't invalidate the question. They are analogous situations. I'm genuinely curious: do you see men's reactions as equally lacking objectivity, or is there some reason why men would be exempt from this?

    [–]U-94 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    I've spent enough time in 24hr dive bars to see men go home with just about anything at 5am. These are guys at all levels. An attractive woman would be a RARE sight at such places and even factoring inebriation, would never just go home with anybody.

    [–]iknowthewhey 61 points62 points  (19 children)

    Perception can really work against you if you have been in the same place your whole life. Women will rarely alter their perception of you unless something drastic changes. Perception also can really work in your favor if you just met a girl. The more mysterious you are to her gives her an attraction outside of what you would perceive. That also factors in to why women cheat so often. A man can be perceived as being better than her boyfriend for a short amount of time quite easily if the boyfriend isn't on his game.

    [–]Senior Endorsed ContributorRian_Stone 46 points47 points  (18 children)

    if you have been in the same place your whole life

    Seems like an easy solution. I was born in Alberta, raised in small town BC, worked all over the province, military in vancouver island. Lived Montreal, Toronto etc.

    The fact someone lives in the same town they were raised in boggles my mind. It's a guarantee you'll never become more than the people around you

    [–]iknowthewhey 13 points14 points  (5 children)

    Agreed. Best thing I ever did was leave my hometown. People that don't travel really miss out on what life has to offer.

    [–]Senior Endorsed ContributorRian_Stone 12 points13 points  (0 children)

    Side story:

    Hit up my 20 year high school reunion. Was a chance to visit a friend I haven't seen in years. Most didn't have a single accomplishment for the last 20 years. Some did, one of my childhood friends wives would have probably fucked me in the parking lot if I pursued (and my spouse wasn't with me...) Takes me back to my redneck hometown.

    At one point, my cousin was looking through the yearbook, and asked me who was most successful out of our grade. off the cuff, I said it was me, as if it was a silly question to ask. I realized what I said then laughed. I'm the most successful hick in hicktown.

    I don't know if life had much to offer, but it was a way to shed the anchor that keeps you from any growth. I don't know any other way that you can see where you were 10 years ago, and be baffled at how you lived there

    [–][deleted]  (3 children)

    [removed]

      [–]iknowthewhey 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      I disagree. There are a million places to see and so much to gain from traveling. Confidence in situations outside of your comfort zone is a huge gain from traveling. Knowledge of other cultures and realizing the American way of life might not be the greatest thing ever. The relaxed manner Europeans live their day will come as a shock for many Americans.

      [–]Endorsed ContributorThotwrecker 6 points7 points  (0 children)

      It's crazy going back to where I grew up. You see clerks who are still clerks, like dude literally a decade has passed and you do the same exact routine, everything is the same, except you're fatter, eyes look blotchy and old, and you got that drinkers redness about your face. It's like Westworld or some shit, you go and it's a bunch of bodies just sorta letting life have their way with them.

      [–]PreOrgasmGroanLness 3 points4 points  (5 children)

      I don't think he meant "place" as in physical place but rather a mental state

      [–]iknowthewhey 7 points8 points  (1 child)

      Nope. I meant physical place. People rarely change their perception of you. Easy solution is to tell them to fuck off and find new people.

      [–]PreOrgasmGroanLness 5 points6 points  (0 children)

      Ah yeh. I can't imagine living in the same place for too long. It's like an echo chamber of low esteem because you never get a new opinion.

      [–]mytrillosophy 5 points6 points  (1 child)

      How’d you draw that conclusion? He went on to say women rarely alter their perception of you, so even if you went hard in the gym the majority of girls will remember you as beta bobby even if you’ve turned it around

      [–]PreOrgasmGroanLness 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      I'd say the looks but mostly the confidence from having a new body is drastic change

      [–]cherryCanSuckMyDick 0 points1 point  (2 children)

      is it just me, or do we have a ton of Canadians on TRP

      [–]Senior Endorsed ContributorRian_Stone 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      And sailors/military, and people who own sight hounds.

      [–]Bear-With-Bit 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Truth. I lived in one big city during my 20's, now in another big city on the opposite coast for my 30's. I can see myself living elsewhere again in several years.

      [–]RedDespair 34 points35 points  (1 child)

      Bravo. This needed to be said. I am tired of newbies saying "if you are under 6" and ripped as fuck you cant get laid in the club"

      I had stopped reading TRP cause what most people comment doesn't reflect my own personal experience.

      You need game, looks and money. If you have to choose one, it's GAME. It's in the fucking sidebar for fucks sake

      [–]2chazthundergut 27 points28 points  (4 children)

      My brother is 5'9", bald (doesn't shave his head, keeps it short but long enough for his balding to be very obvious) and a redhead to boot.

      He also has an unusually large hooked nose, which stands out from his face like a beak.

      By no means is he "conventionally attractive" and yet he has never gone long without a girlfriend and I witness women asking about him all the time, and he's had coworkers proposition him for sex outright (which he refused)

      What does he have going for him?

      1. He is extremely naturally dominant. He has an aggressive personality (a little too aggressive, imo) and has a bit of a temper. But he is very much a masculine alpha. He is a take-charge, "my-way-or-no-way" type of guy. He is always leading the way, making decisions, and is very decisive. He also does not back down from conflicts or avoid confrontations.

      2. He is in good shape. He doesn't lift weights, but he has an extremely active lifestyle and because of this has well above-average physical fitness.

      3. He has an awesome lifestyle. He goes backpacking, rock-climbing, off-roading, kayaking, biking, everything. He loves the outdoors, and has made outdoor adventuring a central part of his life.

      You wouldn't believe the types of chicks my brother pulls. And the hilarious thing is, he has no idea about game or PUA or anything. He abhors nightclubs (I legitimately doubt he's ever been to one), has never done online dating, does not go to parties, has never approached a random girl, never read a book on game, nothing.

      All of his game is passive. He has an awesome lifestyle, is a naturally dominant alpha, and this attracts lots of cool people and puts him in high-value social circles.

      Like I said, you wouldn't believe the chicks he pulls. "Adventure girls" who like to go camping and stuff like that. They are all really fit, usually low-maintenance, and pretty without make-up as a baseline requirement. These girls just get caught up in the turbulence of my brother's lifestyle. They often join a group outing, invited by a thirsty beta who is trying to impress them, and then they meet my brother who is usually the group leader and is very masculine and DGAF. Then it's game over for them. And they do anything for him; they are often girls who like to smoke pot, but my brother is hardcore against drugs so they happily quit weed just to get a chance with him. I've seen it happen time and again.

      It is actually quite jarring to witness. My brother with a face like a fucking canoe, badly balding red head. And stumbling out of the tent after him is a beautiful blonde with blue eyes and the ass of a dancer. And she goes to cook him breakfast.

      These are the types of RedPill truths that it really helps to witness first-hand. Yea, looks are important, but you can go a long way with confidence, dominance, and especially a kick-ass lifestyle.

      [–]look_in_the_mirror 2 points3 points  (1 child)

      What does he do for living? How does he pay for all?

      And how do I become like him?

      [–]2chazthundergut 4 points5 points  (0 children)

      He works as a paramedic. From what he's told me, he makes pretty good money and gets a lot of flexibility in his work schedule.

      However, you don't need a lot of money. Hiking is cheap. He does cooler stuff now that he has more cash, but he's been doing outdoor adventuring since he was a broke college student and a low-level EMT. And he's never had a hard time finding a girlfriend.

      How can you be like him? Find your passion and pursue it. Also start injecting testosterone hehe. My brother is, as I said, extremely naturally dominant and has a short temper.

      [–]ShotgunTRP 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Purple pill natural. Theres plenty.

      [–]Senior Contributor: "The Court Jester"GayLubeOil 131 points132 points  (8 children)

      Oh look whose Endorsed Now!

      If anyone here needs an example of the skewed female perception phenomena remember that most women buy things based on brand and not quality.

      Brands will litteraly just sell the right to use their logo to disparate manufacturers and cash in on this phenomena.

      [–]Senior Endorsed ContributorRian_Stone 37 points38 points  (5 children)

      A tip when you're searching, look for the phrase 'pink tax'

      [–]Endorsed Contributorsadomasochrist 67 points68 points  (4 children)

      The most hilarious spin on this was the attempt by Cathy Newman recently to claim that "women pay more for the same products as men." So buy the gender neutral "male version?"

      Not realizing all she's doing is demonstrating that women will pay more for a product for non-essential features men wouldn't pay for.

      [–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (2 children)

      Does it have enough cup holders?

      [–]Endorsed Contributorsadomasochrist 27 points28 points  (1 child)

      As someone who worked in the auto industry, this is a valid feature request. You have no idea how many families depend on fast food.

      What this is more targeted at is women expecting pink helmets for motorcycles or "you go gamer girl" shirts etc.

      They call it a "tax" but really it's basic laws of supply and demand. Men don't feel they are "owed" anything so they choose what's available on the market, and if they're in a female dominated area, they buy things that are generic or close to it.

      There aren't enough women willing to buy said products or even in said markets, so the word "tax" is spin.

      [–]wkndatbernardus 14 points15 points  (0 children)

      I'm enjoying not having to pay the "female mark-up" on goods I buy. It's like 10% off just for being a rational human being.

      [–]15millionschmeckles 3 points4 points  (1 child)

      I went through this all the time while shopping with an ex. She would rather buy the tomato paste with a fancier packet, even if it had the exact same ingredients and they were BOTH from the same supermarket manufacturer. Boggled my mind

      [–]ShotgunTRP 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      It's a good example of how women are wired.

      Appearance is everything. Looks maxing is a thing.

      [–]ExplorePI[🍰] 14 points15 points  (8 children)

      Agreed. I don’t post here because I’m a middle aged, balding married guy that’s got a bit of a pot gut now... but I enjoy reading people’s stories. :-)

      Before marrying (about 10 years ago) guys around me would complain that I used my income to attract girls that were “out of my league” but what they never realised was it was confidence and humour that actually won the girls. In fact I would spend very little on them and was often treated to dinners out by girls that could do much better.

      Anyway, I worked back late with my 23 yr old PA last night and the chatter was wide and roaming. At some point she said to me, “you’re old but your confidence makes you sexy.”

      I am NOT “sexy”.

      I didn’t respond (because I’m not about to bang the crew) so she added, “I’d sleep with you if you weren’t married”.

      ENOUGH, I had to respond...

      I said, “That’s a lie, [long pause] you don’t care if I’m married, you’d just need to sure it was just our secret.”

      She blushed as I added, “but that’s not going to happen because I’d at least have to show my wife the photos.”

      She was beetroot red as we kept doing out work.

      Confidence without being cocky is the key.

      [–]mubee94 8 points9 points  (2 children)

      Be careful man. Banging coworkers or subordinates is a trap these days. MeToo bullshit

      [–]ExplorePI[🍰] 5 points6 points  (1 child)

      EXACTLY... even if it’s consensual it can only end badly once it ends... plus she’s obviously a very confused girl to suggest it. She can do much better than me if she wants a quick fuck and I’m not going to risk my marriage and family to just dump a load.

      [–]mubee94 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      Yup no matter how much alpha you are. The current situation in US is not feasible for men. Pussy isn't worth the trouble. If ones want to bang much go abroad or bang escorts which seems less risky.

      [–][deleted]  (4 children)

      [deleted]

        [–]ExplorePI[🍰] 4 points5 points  (3 children)

        I don’t live in the US either.... my wife is very understanding and accepts I am who I am - but she has rules about my adventures:

        1. Never in our city
        2. If it happens and I’m alone NEVER tell her (explained later)
        3. Never maintain contact with the girl
        4. Never EVER someone we know (family or friends), and;
        5. She’ll only have threesomes in Thailand, and I must choose the girl because she’s too shy to choose.

        No need to risk my blessed lifestyle... I married the jackpot!

        [–][deleted]  (2 children)

        [removed]

          [–]ExplorePI[🍰] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

          Oh, and Nobleman era?

          What I don’t get about most of the guys in this sub is that there are great options available to them but instead they complain about things they can’t have.

          IMPORTANT NOTE: DONT MARRY A FILIPINA YOU DONT KNOW, but if you want a perfect relationship go and work in the Philippines for a few years and meet normal girls that will treat you like a God.

          You get what you deserve if you marry a bargirlmor someone you met fleetingly after an online “romance”.

          I know plenty of girls s that worked in the Philippines, met great girls, eventually married one and are now blissfully happy.

          I also met guys that married poor girls without even knowing them but Surprise surprise - they got scammed.

          Our choices are up to us.

          [–]TheWrathofShane 43 points44 points  (4 children)

          The short version is that women today just want to play the field and have fun. How can you have fun with a guy who doesnt lift? Girls are very shallow creatures, and if you want pussy you need to lift and get haircut / wear fresh cloths that match and are in style. You can thank feminism / secularism for that, women are not looking for values or a father for their children. Chivalry is a biological trait because it used to work to attract a wife.

          [–]Augustuscrassus 15 points16 points  (2 children)

          Don: "Roger let me ask you something. What do women want?"

          Roger: chuckles "Who cares."

          Seriously tv sucks for the most part but you should all watch mad men.

          [–]Drumcode-Equals-Life 7 points8 points  (0 children)

          Does a really good job portraying how you need to treat women like helpless children

          [–]ShotgunTRP 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          I never thought about the red pills in it until now.

          The entire show is af bb

          [–]3whatsthisgarg 66 points67 points  (21 children)

          and behave the right way, she will perceive you to be more attractive than you objectively are.

          My young friends, the RP principles at play here are Outcome independence, Abundance mentality, and Your mission, IE Having other shit to do than women, and actually just about every other RP principle (except LIFT). Notice how none of that is about physical attractiveness, strictly speaking.

          If you are in college or in a job and all you do other than that is play videogames and chase women, do you really think they see you and think "I gotta get me some of that"? No, they see a thirsty slob.

          This is maybe the paradox of TRP where some of you say "TRP isn't all about pussy". It is. Your goal is her hole. But you don't just drive to the basket, because life is not a game.

          So you do other shit besides women. And women love that.

          More TRP principles: Status. Pre-selection. If you don't have these and you're still wondering why they aren't lining up to fondle your balls, take another look at your life.

          I know, I have lived this. I chased tail like a bird-dog and had mediocre results considering the effort I put in. Then I found my mission (art and music) and put all my energy into that, and suddenly the women were pursuing me. I was the same guy. What changed was nothing physical, it was all social and mental.

          This is basketball season; take a look at your local college sports page, every day is pictures of basketball players. You know these guys are getting laid effortlessly. Do they really look handsome? "Oh, I'm not a basketball player." You can cry about it, or you can find something else.

          [–]coffee-freak 19 points20 points  (8 children)

          true, but 90% of basketball players are tall and muscular. The ones that have a nice face get laid much more easily than the ones that don't. It's all a proof that women DO CARE about physical appearance, they just lie about it. When they are talking about confidence, humor, bla bla they are literally referring to men who have already met the basic criteria.

          [–]do_you_even_liftbro 4 points5 points  (5 children)

          They weren't born muscular though, which is half the battle

          [–]TheReformist94 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          Tall ripped ugly bball players don't get laid.they get the scraps. This sub is so deluded

          [–]pridebrah 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          90% of basketball players are tall and muscular

          Tall, sure, muscular? No. Unless we're talking about Lebron and Dwight Howard, I'd say the majority of college/high school basketball players aren't very jacked at all.

          [–]jamesbwbevis 12 points13 points  (7 children)

          "If she's sexually attracted to you, she'll see you as taller, broader and funnier. If you give her an earth-shattering orgasm, she'll remember your big dick, even if you are under-endowed and didn't get her off through penetration."

          Do you have any actual evidence backing up these claims? This is just ridiculous bullshit.

          Women will overlook imperfections in men just as men do it in women. Yes, a woman might still like you if you're short , but its not because she's delusional and now thinks you're tall or whatever bullshit you're claiming.

          The truth is that all women want a chad but since not all of them can get a chad, they will choose to settle and convince themselves they are happier with a lower tier man. but rest assured the second a better option comes along her hypgamy takes over and she'll be monkey branching. thats reality for your asses

          [–]coffee-freak 8 points9 points  (4 children)

          THIS is the real red pill. RIGHT HERE! Why are we fooling ourselves? 90 % of women settle for someone who doesn't perfectly match their criteria. Men do the exact same thing! It's an entirely natural thing to do and negating this fact doesn't help us in any way.

          [–]monadyne 2 points3 points  (2 children)

          I see someone downvoted my earlier comment below. The so-called "real red pill" is not about men fooling themselves about what women want, and how 90% of women will "settle for" someone who is less than an ideal male specimen. The real red pill is about learning how to be a man and learning how to be your own man. And the purpose of that noble endeavor is not to get into women's panties, for fuck's sake. It's to become the best you you can be, and live a life that's worthy of your best self.

          The journey may start out as some weak-ass guy who plays video games and jerks off to porn, who's sick of being humiliated and rejected by chicks, looking to overcome that situation. What the red pill teaches is that the reason someone is so unsuccessful in that regard is because - thanks to familial and societal influences - he's never learned how to be an actual man. Women are attracted to virile men. It's biology. Virile men make their pussies wet.

          In the course of learning how to become a man who makes pussies wet, one learns infinitely more important things about oneself. What makes someone "manly?" It's mastery over one's self and one's reality. It's having character, honor, integrity, strength - not just putting on a show of those attributes to trick some female into thinking you're a bad-ass, but having those attributes. They are the well-spring from which confidence develops. Actual self-confidence, not a simulation of it. A man with attributes of virtue ends up living a life of meaning and significance, affecting everyone who comes in contact with him.

          If you merely want to get laid, forget the red pill; go look at Pick Up Artist info. That's all about the tricks of the trade in getting women to want to fuck you.

          [–]coffee-freak 1 point2 points  (1 child)

          Firstly, it's our biological imperative to want to win over women and have sex with them, since that's what the purpose of our lives is: to spread our seeds in order to pass on the genes. That's the basic drive that induces your every move and that shapes your life the way it is.. so why run away from it? Why is it so shameful to say that one wants to improve himself in order to appear more attractive to the opposite gender? You just sound like some random feminist saying " a woman without a man is like a fish without a bike". Accept the truth: you need women and women need you and there's nothing shameful about it.

          [–]monadyne 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          Why is it so shameful to say that one wants to improve himself in order to appear more attractive to the opposite gender?

          I'm saying that if you improve yourself to be more attractive to the opposite gender, then you're overvaluing the other gender's opinion of you. What's more important is your opinion of you! Are you an honorable man? Are you someone that others can count on? Do you have the strength of your convictions? Do you know that you're capable of meeting difficult challenges as they arise? Do you have courage? Integrity? If you find yourself lacking in any of these traits, will you do something about it?

          I believe these are more important issues to grapple with, than whether chicks think you're attractive or not. And ironically, in grappling with them - - i.e., with your character - - you become the kind of man that ...chicks are naturally attracted to.

          ...to spread our seeds in order to pass on the genes. That's the basic drive that induces your every move and that shapes your life the way it is.

          Yes, the drive to pass on our genes is true on the biological level, but we are infinitely more than merely biological entities. If we weren't, we would have stayed in Africa, eating fruit from trees and banging ovulating females in our clans. Something greater than our mere biological urges drove us to leave that easy environment and venture off into the other, more challenging realms, culminating with members of our species standing on the surface of the moon. If the biological imperative were the sole driving factor, then those men who led the forays into the wilderness would have stopped and given up once they had fulfilled that imperative and had offspring.

          [–]monadyne 1 point2 points  (1 child)

          This is an old trick: you mischaracterize what someone has said, then successfully argue against that rather than the real comment. The original post said, "If she's sexually attracted to you, she'll see you as taller, broader and funnier..."

          You've changed that into "...not because she's delusional and now thinks you're tall..."

          He didn't say it makes women think you're tall. He's telling you women will perceive you as taller than you actually are. It's about women's subjective perceptions, and that is not bullshit. The purpose of discussions such as this one is to help men understand the differences between how they think/operate and how women think/operate.

          You point out that men and women "overlook imperfections." Why do they do that? Men usually over look imperfections because they're just looking to get laid. Why do women overlook imperfections? It's because something else they perceive in a man renders those imperfections unimportant to them. In some cases this is a conscious decision, e.g., "Okay, so he's homely looking. But he makes a lot of money, and drives a BMW, so...." In other cases, the guy manages to make them tingle, makes their pussies wet, and that effect upon them distorts their perceptions. The man's attributes lessen in importance as the strength of his persona intoxicates them.

          The article at the top of this page is trying to teach people about that, as it's useful to know.

          [–]jamesbwbevis 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          I know exactly what he meant, and it's bullshit. Women dating short men or a dude with a small dick aren't walking around deluded , just like men dating fat chicks aren't deluded. They know she's fat.

          There's absolutely no tangible evidence to support this garbage.

          I'm short and my last girlfriend didn't perceive me as tall or " taller". She just didnt care that I was short

          The red pill likes to make up this bullshit to explain simple stuff. No, she's not magically perceiving you differently, she just doesn't always care. The same way men don't always care if she's chubby or small tits.

          [–]WISE_TURD 40 points41 points  (17 children)

          If men respect you, women will sleep with you.

          Use this way of thinking whenever if you're feeling insecure and want to gain objectivity. Could you respect a man who is overweight? Probably. If he was overweight with a shitty job? Less likely. If he was short, bald, and had shitty posture to boot? Even less likely, but he could still do something astronomically unlikely to make you respect him. Eventually it gets to a one in a million chance you ever respect the guy in his current condition.

          Same thing with women. You can make up for a lot with game, but there's a point where the odds are unreasonably low that you have a chance. Furthermore, that one in a thousand chance would be contingent on things of your control (her mood, the men around you, and random occurrences). So for all intents and purposes, your odds cross the threshold of pursuing being too much investment of time and effort for the odds of getting with her.

          Whenever you're concerned with an aspect of your looks, look in the mirror and ask yourself, "could i respect a man that looks like me even though i'm short/fat/bald/etc.?" If the answer is yes (it usually is), then you can get laid.

          You should still try to maximize your looks and lift, but in the short term i find this exercise helpful. Cheers.

          [–]squarehead93 8 points9 points  (2 children)

          If men respect you, women will sleep with you

          This deserves to be its own post. Male preselection is a thing as much as female preselection, albeit with some differences. Men are very logical in the way they structure their hierarchies. We choose our leaders (alphas) based on who can earn the most respect from the most men. That's why no amount of "game" will save a pasty, fat, video game-playing, Cheeto-munching neckbeard shut-in. There's simply no men who look up to those types of people, even when they're men who are just like them. One of the hardest but most rewarding things I ever did at my lowest point was to find it in myself to admit "if I was someone else, I wouldn't respect me either, let alone date me." But that was the fire under my ass I needed to get back to the gym and take my passions seriously.

          Women want to sleep with men other women want to sleep with. Women want to sleep with men other men want to be.

          [–]askmrcia 0 points1 point  (1 child)

          No I completely disagree. There's a shit ton of guys I and other men dont respect and they still get laid. See whatever celebrity you can think of, soulja boy, beiber or whoever the fuck else.

          [–]pridebrah 3 points4 points  (0 children)

          You're looking at the principle here in too much of a personal way, ie: "Soulja boy is an autistic douche, therefore I don't respect him."

          The better way to synthesize and apply this point is to look at why Soulja Boy and Bieber are even notable: they are successful and have status, therefore women will desire them and there are men that want to be where they are in terms of accomplishment and income. Most would be happy to have their fame and wealth. So yes, this principle applies.

          I think another way to frame this is to be a high energy person, because people are drawn to those that are high energy. Athol Kay's Mindful Attractiveness Plan explains this in depth and is one of those 'cornerstone' books to attractiveness like Mark Manson's 'Models' imo.

          [–]All-DayErrDay 10 points11 points  (12 children)

          Could you respect a man

          If he was short, bald

          Why, personally, would you respect someone less because they're bald and short? Genuinely curious.

          [–]Proto_Sigma 10 points11 points  (0 children)

          People respect people who are perceived as larger and more powerful for pragmatic reasons ( less likely to get punched in the face by someone bigger than you.)

          People also give more respect to people with desirable traits(It's called the halo effect). Having hair is widely considered to be superior to baldness, more attractive, etc. Some people make baldness work, but this is the general rule.

          [–]WISE_TURD 10 points11 points  (0 children)

          I'd say short term it plays a role. I don't mean to sow a seed of doubt in anyone, because I firmly believe you should only harbor beliefs that benefit you. So if you're short, believe that height doesn't matter. It's out of your control, so the only thing you can do is think positively. Getting insecure about it will magnify its effect on your life.

          In the long term, you see what people are made of.

          My uncle's 5'6" and started balding at 30. People underestimated the fuck out of him his entire life. He went to med school, became a doctor, and is now the head of his department.

          He's in his 50's and is well-regarded by most of his colleagues. Some other doctors STILL underestimate him because of his height. He says that it plays to his advantage a lot of time because they never expect him to call them out on their bullshit in a meeting.

          Napoleon was notorious for his small stature, and he was feared by most of Europe. You can overcome these things, it'll just take even more grit and tenacity.

          In the end, you only have one life to live and every day goes by like sand in an hourglass. Can you walk? Do you have a dick? Guarantee there are a million guys who are in much worse positions that would die to be in your situation. Fuck it, go be the next story of a man who was underestimated and worked his ass off to become who he wanted to be anyway.

          Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.

          [–]truecrisis 11 points12 points  (7 children)

          It's just how the world works. Don't fight it.

          Generally people with "good genes" are respected more by default. This all changes with culture of course. Social conditioning.

          [–]LuvBeer 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Huh? Is this really a question?

          [–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours 23 points24 points  (8 children)

          If she's sexually attracted to you, she'll see you as taller, broader and funnier. If you give her an earth-shattering orgasm, she'll remember your big dick

          This is exactly how I get laid. The deep voice, muscle, and semi attractive face help, but I'm short, not wealthy, and now rather old. Its my confidence and game that makes pussy wet and gets it naked for me.

          [–]TheWrathofShane 9 points10 points  (6 children)

          Confidence and game dont work if you have no SMV though, and will most likely get you in trouble if you dont mind read nonverbal social cues.

          [–]PreOrgasmGroanLness 11 points12 points  (2 children)

          He never said he has zero SMV.

          [–]TheWrathofShane 1 point2 points  (1 child)

          I was just saying, didnt imply that he had 0 smv

          [–]Endorsed ContributorJamesSkepp 5 points6 points  (2 children)

          Confidence and game dont work if you have no SMV though,

          It does. Ask any decent PUA.

          RSD has a now widely know story of a two brothers: Stiffler and Evil Stiffler. Stiffler is high SMV lawyer (or something like that) that pulls a lot of women. Evil Stiffler sells drug loaded drinks for money, he's not far from a bum and his only constant thing in life is him fucking women. Around 2 years ago someone in RSD said his lay count is in "hundreds".

          SMV helps a lot, especially when your game and confidence is lacking.

          [–]TheWrathofShane 0 points1 point  (1 child)

          Evil stiffler. Does he keep himself groomed and practice good hygiene? Does he wear clean cloths? Does he lift?

          That is SMV in my eyes. The rest is not required but can help.

          [–]eaeulis 9 points10 points  (4 children)

          complete bollocks.

          attraction is based on physical attributes first, then you play with her mental to close.

          [–]monadyne 4 points5 points  (2 children)

          You're saying that a_nus is lying. Is he lying? Does he not have " friends that don't lift, are skinny fat, and have oddly shaped faces, who lay girls left and right because they're easy going and quite charismatic"? It's not wise to become a slave to an idea. "Attraction is based on physical attributes first, then you play with her mental to close" is accurate, but not absolute! A_nus even cites an example of a guy he knows who's physically attractive but doesn't score.

          And conversely, one of my friends, Tommy, - -who continually banged the most chicks- - was kind of chubby, dressed poorly (he was a housepainter and always wore clothes with paint splotches on them), and was mostly bald but let the ring of hair around his head grow out, so it was long and stringy. And to boot, he had a vulgar "Noo Joisey" way of talking. He was constantly approached by women, and he fucked them all. My friends and I were always amazed by this phenomenon. It was 100% his attitude. His unspoken subtext was, "You think I give a fuck about superficialities like how I look or how much money I have in the bank? I don't even think about shit like that. My attention is on other things, like how awesome life is. I'm here to have fun. You want in? Great!"

          I think part of the reason for Tommy's amazing success is that he wasn't trying to get laid. He was trying to have fun. Women would see that and join him in the quest to have the most fun ...and what's more fun for them than to end the evening by getting laid? There's a huge difference in mindset there. Chicks didn't perceive him as someone who was trying to get something from them, but as trying to give something to them. And that consistently overshadowed his unattractive appearance.

          (Tommy died about ten years ago in a tragic boating accident. Miss you, man!)

          [–]eaeulis 1 point2 points  (1 child)

          I get your point, but to “score” you need to make a play. This is maybe why some attractive guys don’t close, perhaps they’re just relying on looks. Game is also crucial. Understanding how a woman operates (TINGLES) will lead to success. Tommy probably had excellent game or maybe he’s just over-exaggerating with his count.

          The way you described Tommy it seems like pussy lands on his lap only because of his personality despite his below average physical attributes. Dad-bods are attractive right? That’s what the girls say anyway (sarcasm). His confidence must’ve been through the roof, but that is very hard to fake without being attractive to the regular person.

          All i’m saying is getting attractive physically will open the door wide open. Up to you to score now.

          [–]monadyne 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          Game is also crucial. . . . Tommy probably had excellent game or maybe he’s just over-exaggerating with his count.

          This is what I'm trying to tell you: game is not crucial! Tommy had no game. Tommy just being Tommy was what seduced women. And there was no "count" from Tommy because he didn't give enough of a fuck about banging chicks to brag about it. It was just natural to him to do. The only way he'd talk about it was... he'd say something like, "Hey, remember those two redheads I was talking to at the bar last night? I banged them in the cemetery after the bar closed!" In other words, the important part of the story was the cemetery.

          His "count" was what me and my friends had actually observed. After Tommy died, we'd often laugh about it. "How in the fuck did Tommy do it? He used to get mad babes! The guy was borderline ugly, no money, dressed like shit, no charm . . . but he'd leave with the hottest chicks??!"

          As for the "game is crucial" part: think of George Clooney sitting on a barstool. Do you think he'd need Game in order to close with a hot chick? Do you think he'd need to "make a play?" Hell, no. All he'd have to do is sit there and they'd come up to him and try to get him to fuck them. That's what Tommy did - but without the George Clooney handsomeness, fame, money, etc.

          So, what did Tommy have? If I had to guess, I'd say he had "natural Game." In other words, he embodied a lot of what Game teaches, but not because he consciously learned it. For example, when RP mentors are teaching men about how to tease women, they emphasize that you try to make it about "fun." Well, that's what Tommy naturally did. He was just out there having fun. Women picked up on that and responded to it.

          Men here are advised to cultivated an IDGAF attitude, and to let go of outcomes. Tommy just naturally had that - he truly did not give a fuck. Since he was usually drowning in pussy, if some chick he was talking with wasn't into him, so what? He knew there'd be others. And having that attitude is likely part of what attracted those others to him.

          I'm not trying to put down Game here, not in any way. I'm just trying to point out that we don't need to slavishly follow an ideology.

          [–]coffee-freak 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          I agree, you need to pass at least SOME of her criteria in order to proceed with the conversation. Or maybe just stop chasing girls that are out of your league all together.

          [–]BattleSpirits 9 points10 points  (0 children)

          Its true,but don't forget that giving her an orgasm is the last step,not the first that are more difficult. Anyway putting too much effort into dating is deleterious,it's better to focus on self-improvement(phisically/mentally/hobbies etc.) And taking the dating game with easiness.

          [–]JustaDude456 10 points11 points  (0 children)

          "But women often lack objectivity. Use that."

          Well fucking said.

          [–]cafeitalia 3 points4 points  (1 child)

          What a shame this whole trp is becoming so about making yourself liked by women. It needs to be about being a real man! Who cares about the woman you want to fuck? Be a real man and she will be thinking of what to do to make you like her. Nowadays all trip talk is about do this and that so women will like you and they will get wet for you.

          [–]monadyne 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          Amen! I think a lot of guys come here for TRP when what they really want is PUA. For them, getting chicks is The Holy Grail - - not understanding that that as a goal is, in itself, beta as fuck! They just are way too far away from understanding that attracting women is the natural consequence of being a man in absolute command of himself and his life. The true goal is mastery of oneself.

          [–]coffee-freak 7 points8 points  (7 children)

          I personally believe that we are fooling ourselves believing that women do not need man's physical appeal to be sexually stimulated. If you are short, bold, wrinkly and ugly, or just conventionally unattractive, it doesn't matter how much game you're hiding under your sleeve once you meet a beautiful woman. Even if you are rich and famous and are perceived as a high-status male, still those beautiful women who chase you, won't get horny by YOU, but will have sex in order to preserve the benefits of dating a rich dude and high-status dude. Some men don't mind it and still can have sex and get off. But for me, it's same as getting a hooker who probably feels repulsed by you since your looks probably don't match the ones of a "Chad". (Let's face it, if they were, you wouldn't be getting a hooker to get laid). It's still good, I guess.. you orgasm and fuck a hot chick but that feeling of not being genuinely wanted would hunt me and I wouldn't enjoy the whole experience.

          So, my point is.. I'm scared that I'll never find a woman who'll be genuinely aroused by my body and face and that she'll just pretend because she has to settle since of whatever reason.

          [–]PreOrgasmGroanLness 5 points6 points  (2 children)

          No, no, no, you get it wrong. Just a little, though.

          The point is that personality/game distort your looks in her eyes in your favor. It's not just looks & wealth & game. If you're on a mission you have a spark in your eyes and that'll gravitate women towards you and keeps them close. They'll find things in your body they adore because they need to manifest their love in the physical world.

          Lift tho

          [–]coffee-freak 1 point2 points  (1 child)

          do you think it works both ways? Because I know so many guys who fell for average chicks and became literally obsessed with them. I always felt like they had some kind of a distorted perception of them. They were telling me they met a HB10 but the girl was a conventionally average girl or sometimes even below average.

          Anyway, thanks for your comment. Let's hope it works

          [–]PreOrgasmGroanLness 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          Falling in love with a girl could definitely distort her physically for me. I think in of itself it's not a bad thing (you get to enjoy her more) as long as you don't do oneitis stuff. Thinking oneitis isn't oneitis, feeling oneitis isn't oneitis, acting oneitis is. However when I met my GF,, now a MLTR, I'd rate her as HB6 at the time I've met her, I knew she wasn't HB10. So fuck me, I don't know. I had oneitis and still have to a slight extent, but even back then I've always knew that relationships are temporary and not to expect a lifetime mate because that's just not how to lead life. I suppose you've answered yourself - you know them guys.

          By the way, in my experience there is more "wet attraction" to behaving confidently and operating with your choice of words/voice/tone than looks. I rely on it a lot more even though my goal is to still get jacked. Fuck that's gonna work good; but until then I recommend you W. Anton's "The Manual".

          One of the important points of the book that I've been working on internalizing lately is that women (and people in general) don't care about you being confident, they care about the appearance of confidence. I've always thought of it as faking confidence (and I don't endorse faking, which is against this sub's advice) but this book made me realize it's not really faking, because the book's definition of confidence is to appear sure of the outcome despite not having full info. Makes sense - I don't see the need not to appear confident anymore. It doesn't benefit me in any way, even if I don't know the outcome. You never have full knowledge of the world/future, so you can never be 100% confident basing solely on knowledge - therefore confidence cannot be only knowledge, it also has to include tolerance for the unknown.

          It's beautifully simple. There's no reason to be unconfident. And it's been working magic so far as I've been seeing results lately in the form of being more brave, outward, leading, spontanious and courageous in my interactions, not with just women. I hesitate less and find some kind of manly wild JOY out of saying stuff that might be rejected, but that I feel like it's going to drive the woman nuts in a good way, and my girls are loving the confidence. It's a gamble and it's addicting. Okay, I'm getting poetry here so I'm gonna leave it at that.

          [–]ExplorePI[🍰] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

          It’s horses for courses... a girl is not going to fuck your if she is repulsed by you but they can be repulsed by your attitude as much as your looks. Looks are more obvious so a girl may rule you out initially because of how you look and then turn around and find you desirable when combining looks and personality.

          One example I can give is a TALL blonde extra hot girl I met in my local pub (fancy pub in my city). We chatted and laughed and she come out and says you’re so funny but I don’t sleep with guys shorter than me.

          My simple response was “Thank God because I don’t do prissy blondes that are scared of getting their hair pulled”.

          The laughter continued and at the end of the night (when I was talking with another girl she approached and puts her number in my phone. Two nights later I’m cooking her dinner in my apartment (across the road from the pub) and she’s telling me she can’t understand what is making me do attractive to her.

          Two hours later she’s cracked under my arm after we’ve fucked and she’s sniffing and licking my chest hair (like a cat) and she bursts out laughing saying, “what the fuck! Your chest hair is making me so fucking horny again”.

          I’m telling you that if you truly attract women with non-physical characteristics THEY will find something about you that they find attractive.

          I can’t explain it, I don’t understand the science of it and I can’t predict it but it happens.

          I’ve had girls attracted by my hands, my forearms, my lips, my jaw and some guts just can’t believe the number of girls that claim to be turned on by thick chest hair.

          I’ll add one other thing: either through instinct or through experienced I noticed I would start to use the things they were attracted to more in our sex sessions and it got them off even more. If you can sense what they are into you’ll be surprised at the power of giving them something they haven’t even imagined they wanted (ie. me “letting” this girl lick my forearms for ages until she moved down and virtually choked herself on my cock.... initiating regular threesomes with one girl by “letting her” practice licking pussy by bringing her mouth to my chest hair.... exaggerating the use of my hands on a girl (rubbing her and stroking her firmly - even holding her firmly by the throat) because she’d been commenting on my strong thick hands.

          I am only “there” to give them what they want, or even better discovering things they never imagined they could “need”.

          If you have insecurities about your physical appearance women will pick up on it and pass you over. That doesn’t mean you’ll have every woman you want... but. If you’re confident you’ll get more women than you deserve.

          [–]universalabundance1 0 points1 point  (1 child)

          If you have insecurities about your physical appearance women will pick up on it and pass you over.

          How do they pick up on that?

          [–]ExplorePI[🍰] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          If you have insecurities you’ll be less confident and they can smell fear.

          Fear of rejection, fear of offending, fear of being lonely.

          I truly wish that men would understand that it’s easier to turn a girl OFF than turn her ON. If you attract her she’ll find her own triggers to get turned on by you... BUT, you have to be truly comfortable and confident in yourself.

          Look, there are definitely (mostly) younger girls that are still in a discovery phase where their ideal guy is a “10” (in their eyes) but even some of the younger girls are susceptible to being seduced by charisma.

          I think the key is this:

          • stop focusing on them, focus on yourself
          • find a way to be happy with who you are
          • do something productive in your life (work, sport, travel, charity, whatever... but don’t sit by and watch as life passes
          • understand that as you stand there and look at that girl who seems unattainable you’re looking at a person who is insecure about something - her looks, her body, her lack of money, her poor family background, her intelligence, her lack of travel, her mistakes in life... what she fears the most is that the genuine men around her won’t be interested in her and she’ll be alone, or very alone too often.

          All you need to do is show her something interesting or intriguing... and assure her she’s good enough for you. She’ll appreciate your honesty.

          [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          I'm scared that I'll never find a woman who'll be genuinely aroused by my body and face and that she'll just pretend because she has to settle since of whatever reason.

          This would never happen, because there will always be guys (notice I said guy"S", plural) who will have a better body and face that will make them wetter than you can. So they won't genuinely like what you have to offer.

          They'll settle for what you got, maybe even be "satisfied". But that's only because that's the best they can get so far.

          [–]a_nus 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          Agree with your point. However I don't think they're incapable of seeing objective attractiveness, rather it's a lot easier to override this in women using your charisma.

          As guys we don't care if the girl is a bit awkward or lacks charisma (some might even find it hot), as long as she's physically attractive. Women, on the other hand, do care. A lot. So much that it's possible to completely override her measure of objective physical attractiveness based on how you act.

          This can be good and bad. I've a friend who looks like a model but girls won't touch him after he opens his mouth because he's an awkward wreck and lacks social awareness. I also have friends that don't lift, are skinny fat, and have oddly shaped faces, who lay girls left and right because they're easy going and quite charismatic.

          [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          Women are no different from men, they are at first attracted to looks, but the only way to seal the deal is to also have some sort of personality.

          [–]AWorseManThanYou 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          fondle their minds

          Fondle their emotions

          FTFY

          [–][deleted]  (1 child)

          [deleted]

          [–]All-DayErrDay 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Do you think its more the style change or the dark and handsome part.

          [–]caucasianinasia 1 point2 points  (1 child)

          There was a question on one of the Facebook groups in my host country of Vietnam. A Vietnamese girl asked the other girls "Would you be with a guy in a relationship where you (the girl) earned most of the money". Of course many said yes but many qualified it by adding "as long as he was driven, motivated, not lazy" etc. Some gave the "as long as he loved me" bullshit which we know isn't true in the long run. Interesting to see this stuff manifest in real life.

          [–]rigbed 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          If they say it I suspect it’s true. They’re envisioning a chad they wait hand and foot on.

          [–]amberdus 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          To build on this - people, not just women, are attracted to excellence. If you’re good at something, odds are someone is attracted to you for it. Get good at something! As an example, let’s use soccer players. Generally a soccer player is in shape, but not overly muscular. Additionally, generally a soccer player is shorter than your average man. What have you got going for you then as a soccer player? You’re good at something. You might not be Ronaldo making hundreds of millions, but goddammit you’re not half bad. You probably have confidence from playing sports. This is something you can use.

          As another example, let’s look at Bruno Mars. Take away the star power he’s got, take away his millions of dollars and what have we got? Is he overly attractive? Is he tall or muscular? No, but holy hell can that man sing. He will never in his life have a hard time finding a girlfriend with a voice like that. Am I a huge fan of his? No, I cringe every time I hear “uptown funk” come on the radio again. Would I want to meet him? Definitely. I respect the hell out of his talent.

          Use what you’ve got guys, and more than anything, have confidence in your abilities and yourself

          [–]ATKoast 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Absolute gold! I can't believe I just read this. 100% exactly what I was thinking about and just experienced. Right on.

          [–]JaspersChest 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          I have a minor lifp too, and I work that fhit!!

          [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          This is all true. Women see men through a lens of emotion and whomever she loves will be the most beautiful sight in the world to her.

          [–]sahil-walia 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          what is objectivity in women?

          [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          What do you define as short?

          [–]hb8only 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          yep.. I wouldn't believed that but I have personally ask my female friend why she haven't fucked my chad friend (you really wanna look like him, believe me) and her answer was - I don't like muscle boys (and he has a good face too) so it is really not the answer for all...

          [–]Mineralrecords 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Damn. The comments in this thread are one giant circlejerk. I enjoy that.

          [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          As soon as I started balding I knew I had to get into excellent physical shape. You can get away with being fat if you are pretty, but being fat and bald/unattractive is game over.

          [–]ExplorePI[🍰] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          I’ve offered the option but she says one man is “enough”... but in reality if she took another and I didn’t accept that I would just move onto the next - right?

          As she said having another man just repeats what she has already but playing with girls sometimes makes something different.

          How did we meet?

          We met through work... but I’d known her parents for over 30 years. I was working on contract in Manila and was shocked when we worked out I knew her parents.

          Yes, there’s a bit of an age gap but she doesn’t mind... I don’t mind either. ;-)

          [–]AdroitG 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Looks do matter... I know several girls that don't care saying it. In my workplace, there is this guy who is an 8/10 and all girls drool over him even though he is clearly in a relationship. The guy can't even keep a conversation since he is fairly awkward but I have noticed how girls would keep up the conversations even though he would answer with yes or no. We work in a manufacturing company and the operators are mostly woman in the 3/10 or 4/10 range and they just flock to him even though they don't stand a chance.

          There is another guy at my workplace who is pretty much a 3/10 and no girl gets close to him, he is regarded as the creep even though they have similar personalities!

          What is the most fun is seeing a woman with shit body/face drooling over male models, like at least work on yourself.

          [–]Bear-With-Bit 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Girls like when guys fondle their minds.

          Newbs will reply with, "But how?"

          TRP: Lift. Start with that.

          Newbs: That's too hard. What else?

          When provided concrete actionable items, they'll say it's too hard.

          When provided abstract ideas, they'll say it's too hard.

          Point is, you have to be already red-pilled to get red pill. More than understanding women, you need to know what it takes to overcome personal life hurdles. Doing well in school, physical fitness, building an enviable career, making good dough, exerting leadership in all relationships, ditching toxic people, etc.

          If you're new here, if you spend just an hour or two reading through the sidebar and posts by mods/ECs, you should get the gist. If you don't get it, you're either too young, haven't failed enough, and/or you have no idea what it likes to carve yourself into a top 5% man.

          [–]shabangcohen 0 points1 point  (9 children)

          Wait. So if you act in a way she finds attractive and say things she finds attractive, she will find you more attractive? Hoollllyyyyy shit, it's almost as if women evaluate your attractiveness as a whole person rather than just a collection of body parts. So irrational.

          [–]Senior Endorsed ContributorFieldLine[S] 1 point2 points  (8 children)

          Be careful, you're dangerously close to realizing that there is some kind of rationale behind The Red Pill, that maybe TRP offers real, actionable advice on how men can make themselves more attractive to women.

          Wouldn't want that, would we? No, it's much safer to stick with the narrative TRP is a collection of women-hating neckbeards who can't get laid.

          [–]shabangcohen 0 points1 point  (7 children)

          But why frame that as if women do things so differently and perceive the world differently? A man will also find an average looking woman more attractive if she presents herself well and is nice. This post explicitly says that following a certain protocol will mold women to unwittingly find you hot.

          The premise that women are manipulated by the "right" things because they are 'different' and not objective is completely false.

          And the advice that a personality will help your overcome not being 6'2" with a 6 pack is fucking obvious.

          [–]Senior Endorsed ContributorFieldLine[S] 1 point2 points  (6 children)

          Because men do perceive the world differently than women, and will react differently to specific triggers.

          There's nothing inherently wrong with that, and I can further develop this point if you are interested.

          A man will also find an average looking woman more attractive if she presents herself well and is nice.

          This is your mistake. As a man, nice doesn't do it for me. Sure, it's appreciated, and I won't date a girl who isn't good company, but if she isn't physically attractive I won't have sex with her. Full stop.

          In general, men will sleep with a girl who is hot (or even average) but has a shit personality. Men generally won't sleep with a girl who is ugly but has a great personality and a PhD.

          Contrast this to women. You said it yourself -- it's "fucking obvious" that a guy doesn't need to be an Abercrombie model to attract women. All he needs is what we call "game".

          Are there exceptions? Of course. But the point of TRP isn't to explain why any specific woman does X. No matter how much data you have, you can never predict the outcome of a single event. But given a large enough sample size, the mean will tend to a particular outcome. Collectively, we've hit on enough women to determine what actions will result in the desired average result (getting laid).

          And the advice that a personality will help your overcome not being 6'2" with a 6 pack is fucking obvious.

          The motivation in writing this post was to state the obvious. It's unfortunate that it needed to be said so blatantly, but some guys just don't get it, and the board was getting flooded with guys whining that the whole thing is hopeless if you have shitty genes.

          [–]shabangcohen 0 points1 point  (5 children)

          Well, most women would never sleep with or date a guy who is perfect in every way except he's ugly. Maybe some will, but some men will too. Guys don't need to be Abercrombie models. Neither do girls... Because people who aren't model hot can still be hot.

          Once you meet a certain threshold looks-wise your personality will make you more or less attractive. This post makes it seem like women's retinas will warp to make you seem more attractive if you act a certain way. No, women don't really perceive the world that differently. Maybe they are more willing to settle because they would rather date decently attractive nice guys than really hot assholes.

          But basically, as a woman, nice doesn't do it for me. Sure, it's appreciated, and I won't date a guy who isn't good company, but if he isn't physically attractive I won't have sex with him. Full stop. And I don't think that's the exception (at least until like age 30 probably).

          So does the law of large numbers work when you have events that are very much not random? Are you really performing the same experiment repeatedly? Each trial here has so many other variables that it invalidates the theorem. You sound like you just think math will make you sound smarter than me.

          Idk, I think it would actually be really interesting to capture a lot of data about how women and men think about these things. But often you guys just assume you know how women think and it's not data driven AT ALL.

          And it's like so funny to hear some guys be like "ughh I can't get laid because I'm ugly" and at the same time expect that they'll sleep with hot girls if they have 'game'. But when it comes to girls they would never sleep with girls who aren't hot. But then they also think girls are shallow because they want the hot guys.

          Idk, I guess I don't have a vast pool of data that I'm pulling insights from. But I'm also not sitting here making assumptions about what men want.

          [–]Senior Endorsed ContributorFieldLine[S] 2 points3 points  (4 children)

          We (in this subreddit) aren't making assumptions about what women want. This isn't some kind of think tank where we sit around and theorize. Everything on the sidebar is field tested and allows men to effectively bed attractive women to a statistically significant degree.

          As I said, there are exploits in both the male and female psyche. For instance, men are naturally protective towards women. There is no shortage of examples of women capitalizing on this protective instinct that men possess, even if only subconsciously.

          Like many guys, I used to ask women for dating advice. Sometimes it worked, but there was no consistent pattern. It seemed like women chose to date me in spite of whatever I was doing, not because of it.

          After discovering TRP, I made conscious changes to the way I approach and cultivate relationships with women. Without getting into specifics, my success rate vastly improved.

          Many guys here report similar experiences. Act the way women say we should, and we get mediocre-to-negative results. Act the way men who have sex with lots of women act, and we get mediocre-to-positive results.

          Is what we talk about here mathematically rigorous enough to be published in Nature? Of course not. But there is definitely enough collective experience between all of us to come up with a general sense of what works.

          Not "say these specific words and she'll sleep with you", that would be absurd, and as you astutely pointed out, there are too many variables to learn anything from a particular encounter. More like "be dominant in your interactions with women", which is general enough to be useful. And that was one of the most effective pieces of dating advice I was every given, no matter how many women tell me and everybody else here otherwise.

          So either women perceive the world differently than they think they do, and genuinely don't realize what turns them on, or else they do know what turns them on and are collectively maintaining a mass conspiracy by telling guys they want one thing when really they want another.

          This is the basis of the expression "you wouldn't ask a fish how to catch a fish. You would ask a fisherman."

          as a woman

          You should be aware that there is a strongly enforced rule about remaining sexless when posting here. I know it was relevant to this discussion, so I doubt the mods will make a stink about it, but officially this conversation shouldn't happen here.

          Just something to keep in mind if you want to continue posting. You are welcome to hang around to learn something. But your advice isn't welcome here.

          [–]shabangcohen 0 points1 point  (3 children)

          Nah all the posts here say things like "women lack objectivity", "girls are utterly incapable of taking responsibility", "women only praise positive traits when they serve their interest". Even if these are true, they are HUMAN behaviors and not you unique to women. There very well be a mismatch between the advice women give you and the behaviors that prove 'successful', but that's because they don't think your definition of success is fucking women who are only attracted to the persona you put on. And I think only dumbfucks buy those personas, most girls see right through it.

          Some of the posts on here are about genuine self improvement, which is pretty cool. But most are about how women are 'manipulative' so you should do these things to out-think them. Like as if it's a game of chess. Yikes.

          [–]Senior Endorsed ContributorFieldLine[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

          But most are about how women are 'manipulative' so you should do these things to out-think them. Like as if it's a game of chess.

          This is a perfect example of why you should read more and talk less if you want to learn something.

          It's not like a game of chess. I don't think of you, a woman, as some nefarious, manipulative bitch.

          You're just a woman. That's the way women are.

          Similarly, I don't consciously feel protective towards women. I'm just hardwired that way. Hell, I'm an Endorsed Contributor in one of the most misogynistic corners of the internet, and I still have to check myself from giving women special treatment. It irks the hell out of me, but it's instinctual. That's the way men are.

          that's because they don't think your definition of success is fucking women who are only attracted to the persona you put on.

          I want to have sex. My definition of sexual success is.... having sex. I don't care why women are having sex with me. I'm not interested in settling down right now, so what do I care if she likes me, my body, my mind, or my money, if she's sucking my dick?

          Because here's another fundamental piece of The Red Pill: as important as it is for you to have an emotional connection with a guy.... that's how important it is for me to have a physical connection with a girl. To women, the sexual thing is secondary. For men, the emotional thing is secondary.

          Men and women are different. Surprise.

          And I think only dumbfucks buy those personas, most girls see right through it.

          I get that it bothers you that the best results come about from treating women like shit. It used to bother me too. I'd like to make grand romantic gestures and buy her flowers and shit. But I'm not making the rules. I just want to get laid.

          Before TRP I wasn't getting laid. Now I am.

          So I'll say it again: Either women perceive the world differently than they think they do, and genuinely don't realize what turns them on, or else they do know what turns them on and are collectively maintaining a mass conspiracy by telling guys they want one thing when really they want another.

          The reality is that women like you say they want guys with certain traits, and let an asshole like me fuck them.

          So which one is it? Ignorance or a conspiracy?

          [–]shabangcohen 0 points1 point  (1 child)

          Ooh I get it. They're not manipulative. They're just hard wired to be manipulative. Every single thing you say is about men and women being "hardwired" differently. And your evidence? That you changed multiple things about your behavior and got a certain response. But I don't think you can pinpoint it to the factors you give so much weight to. Maybe lifting and dressing nicely and actually talking to more of them is 85% of it?

          Maybe women and men do tend toward certain behaviors... but a lot of that is an effect of upbringing and therefore by definition not instinctual or hard-wired. You keep calling things hard-wired, instinctual, using sweeping generalizations as rules and implying that traits are binary. women= emotional, alpha men=physical women=subjective men=objective. An entire worldview based on the false notion that this binary model is valid.

          I don't really give a shit if you just want to fuck. Or if treating people like shit help you do it. You do you tbh.

          But the fact that you think we're all so hardwired to such a large extent that you think you know which strings to pull for different results is disturbing because it spills over into situations that aren't sexual too. And it's completely unproven (and most evidence points against it)

          [–]Senior Endorsed ContributorFieldLine[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          But I don't think you can pinpoint it to the factors you give so much weight to.

          If it was just me I would be inclined to agree with you.

          But the fact remains that tens of thousands of guys, with the huge variance of factors between them, made the same slight tweaks to their interactions with women, and each netted positive results. That speaks to me, and it would be intellectually dishonest for you to call that insignificant.

          So you're still not answering my question. Ignorance or conspiracy?

          [–]omega_dawg93 0 points1 point  (4 children)

          i had to explain this to a friend. here's what i said: see those two girls over there? one weighs 300 lbs, smells awful, and looks like a gorilla. the other is fine as fuck... very curvy at 125 lbs.

          which one do you want? he said, he'd suck the attractive girl's asshole and drink her mama's bath water.

          so, i said... you and i are walking down the street. two girls notice us. if i'm slumped over, whimpy, etc. do you realize that one girl sees me and says, "no thanks... not my type." that same girl sees you (walking confidently, smiling, bold) and she'll give you a rimjob within half an hour.

          it's all about their analysis of the world... and physical traits are NOT at the top of their list(s).

          [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children)

          if i'm slumped over, whimpy

          Aren't these physical traits thought? Slumped over = poor posture (physical trait) Whimpy = probably lack muscle definition, which is a physical trait. How else would you determine someone is "whimpy" on sight?

          In your own example to prove "physical traits are NOT at the top of their list(s)", you show 2 physical traits that the hypothetical women use to preselect you as "not their type".

          [–]omega_dawg93 0 points1 point  (2 children)

          physical traits are height, weight, hair color etc.

          my example was intended to state more about projecting confidence (or not).

          [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

          Regardless of your intent, in your example, the first thing those hypothetical girls would notice are your physical traits, then use that to evaluate your confidence. That's why posture is so important.

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