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Building PowerConfident Vs Cocky (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by beefthathasredmiddle

There always seems to be a very fine line between being cocky and being confident. There is always a confusion about what exactly being cocky is, and what being confident is. Someone might say that someone is a cocky person. Someone might say that someone is confident. As if its a trait of their personality, but it's not white and black. In fact, I can be cocky and confident at the same time. I can even be insecure. Depends on the situation, and it depends on the perspective. This may seem obvious to someone of you, but i think it needs to be said.

Cocky is when you overestimate. It's when you don't know enough, and your narrow understanding makes you believe you have control over something. Maybe it's playing a video game, maybe it runs deeper. At the end of the day, it's a lack of understanding and an overestimating of one's self. If I believe I'm the best, and things don't go my way, it can't be my fault. "She's just a bitch", "The system is rigged", "He got lucky". When you're cocky, and you fail, you don't learn. You'll never become a better person, you'll stay in the mud blaming the rain. You put yourself in a feedback loop, motivated, because you got something to prove, and every time you lose it's everything to you.

Insecurity is the same deal, except you're afraid. You protect yourself from the truth, and it's not because you think you're better than everyone else. You're afraid of what it means to fail.

Confidence isn't about winning. It's not about losing. It's an understanding that there are things you are good at, and there are things you are bad at. It's a relationship with the truth, its a truth you trust and know a lot about. It's being real with yourself and knowing when to quit, and when to commit. Winning and losing becomes the same thing, only a measure of what you did right, what you did wrong, and if you have what it takes.

The biggest take away from this, is a simple one. When you are willing to fail, you are willing to learn. Don't let emotions cloud your understanding of truth.

Hopefully this clears things up. If not, feel free to call me a beta bitch.


[–]Robster25 170 points171 points  (18 children)

You should write more articles. I'm a very critical person and I believe many articles on here, even from endorsed contributors are written like absolute trash. This article is flawless.

Confidence isn't about winning. It's not about losing. It's an understanding that there are things you are good at, and there are things you are bad at. It's a relationship with the truth, its a truth you trust and know a lot about. It's being real with yourself and knowing when to quit, and when to commit. Winning and losing becomes the same thing, only a measure of what you did right, what you did wrong, and if you have what it takes.

Really well said! In addition I would've stated, that you have to work on a thing to become good at it. No one is confident by nature, but by failing over and over again until he/she becomes good at the thing they are practicing.

[–]beefthathasredmiddle[S] 41 points42 points  (15 children)

Wow, thanks man.

I agree, nobody is confident by nature, but people are talented by nature. You become confident when you discover what that talent is, and are patient enough to fail, humble enough to learn, and wise enough to recognize a calling.

It's not just about becoming good at something, its also about first discovering something(s) that you have talent in. You have to be willing to explore and experience any opportunities that interest you. Imagine if Lebron never picked up a basketball because he was afraid to fail, or never took his career seriously because he was cocky, never listened to his coaches and mentors, and thought he was good enough. Lebron is confident, because he found his calling and exploited it.

[–]Robster25 9 points10 points  (14 children)

I have to disagree with you on this one, because in my eyes there is no such thing as "talent". The word "talent" is often used by mediocre/lazy people as an excuse to not become as good as the person who they believe is "talented".

I would rather say there are different interests. Let me give you an example: If a small child discovers that it has fun climbing and starts climbing everytime it is on the playground and keeps on climbing when it gets older, until it joins a "climbing-sportsclub" (for the lack of words and English is not my native language). Then it will maybe win some tournaments and people will say how talented that person is, but it has all to do with being interested in climbing from an early age on and practicing climbing from an early age on.

[–]trees_away 20 points21 points  (11 children)

Dude, you’re wrong there. Innate talent is certainly a thing. Certain kids are more gifted at some things than others and it has nothing to do with interest. I have always had a sickening amount of innate talent and it’s actually been an Achilles heel in many ways. My natural gifting made it easy to not have to learn how to discipline and apply myself to get good at things. Interests are one thing, but being able to pick something up and do it at a proficient (if not near master level) almost immediately is certainly a talent. It’s one of the things that makes me interesting to women, because I have so many different things that I do/am good at., whereas most people would have had to invest 10x the time in those things to be at the same level, I just pick up 10x the things to be good at in the same amount of time.

Also, this is why lifting and routine are so difficult for me (though fuck excuses, I’ve been building it into my life anyways). ADHD + no need to invest time and energy to learn means I’ve always been a free spirit who jumps from thing to thing. Sitting down and finishing the EP I’m getting ready to release was one of the hardest things I’ve ever had to I because I had to bottle my creative energy and make writing a routine. I backed myself into a corner by plopping down 18k to do so, and I wasn’t going to waste that cash so it forced me to work.

If I were to take a Jordan Peterson approach to a parable of Christ’s, the story of the talents is a sobering reality to one who has been given much. The demands placed on yourself are so much higher when you know what you’re truly capable of but are held back by petty shit. To whom much is given, much is required.

[–]frooschnate 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I suffer from the something similar. Where I’ve been above average at something with very little time spent grinding out.

Now it’s harder to choose which hobbies or activities I want to keep practicing, since I used to hop around too many as a kid.

[–]Ben_Eszes 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Damn, that's very relatable. It's the Jack of All Trades problem that I run into so many times. I'm (slightly) above average at many things, but I'm an expert at pretty much nothing because I never want to progress past that.

[–]Robster25 0 points1 point  (8 children)

I might be wrong indeed, but let me give you an example from donkeydodos post below and explain the way I see it:

To elaborate, someone is talented in e.g tennis, because they understand the concept deeply enough to be seen as relatively good at it. Someone would be a natural talent in tennis if spoken someone would try tennis for the first time and learn it quickly; that is, how to move, where to aim the ball, how hard to hit etc.

What did the person who played tennis for the first time do, before it picked up the tennis racket for the first time? Maybe it hit stones with a stick before or did something else, not related to tennis at all, which improved his skill to aim, or how hard to hit etc.

Or if some farmerboy, who worked his entire teen-years on his parents farm and lifted heavy stuff, enters a gym for the first time and deadlifts 100kg without deadlifting before you would see him as a talented lifter, but really he practiced heavy lifting in other ways. As I said I'm a critical person, but I'm open to be convinced. Are there any studies in regard to talent?

[–]nester79 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Talent is a real thing. Take perfect pitch for example - you are born with it or you're not. Those with perfect pitch are more inclined musically than those without it, but plenty of great musicians did not have perfect pitch.

Talent isn't as big a deal as hard work and the right circumstances of course but it is real, though not as pervasive as everyone makes it out to be.

[–]randomTATRP 0 points1 point  (1 child)

[–]nester79 1 point2 points  (0 children)

An untalented reply to say the least. This guy definitely looks like an expert.

[–]Twentyfivedeep 0 points1 point  (4 children)

I don't have any studies on hand, but both of the examples you mentioned have clear ways in which talent will gain someone a massive advantage: For tennis, reflexes and hand-eye coordination are major advantages, and some children simply excel in these areas from the very beginning. Tennis is also very much about speed and athleticism. If you have a higher ratio of fast twitch to slow twitch muscle fibres, you're going to be able to move across the court more quickly which is again a massive advantage in tennis. Then you have to factor in height, limb length, VO2 max etc. Speed and fitness can be improved, but their ceiling will always be decided by genetics.

Powerlifting is an even more obvious example of talent being advantageous. Longer arms = better for deadlifting. Short torso = better capacity for deadlift. Larger hands = better capacity for grip strength. Some people start hitting the gym and immediately hit intermediate strength standards based primarily on their genetic advantages. Protein synthesis occurs at a higher rate in some people, some people have naturally higher testosterone, some people have larger frames.

Hard work and dedication can overcome huge disadvantages but anyone who doesn't believe in talent is kidding themselves, or they've never competed at a high level.

[–]Robster25 0 points1 point  (3 children)

I can live with your point, that genetics give people an advantage. But you didn't even answer my points or go into detail about the examples I gave.

[–]Twentyfivedeep 0 points1 point  (2 children)

The points you made insinuated that talent is based on prior experience of similar activity. The points I made showed that you don't need prior experience to immediately excel at an activity. I gave examples that directly responsed to your points so I fail to see how I didn't answer them.

[–]Robster25 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Nope, you just talked about deadlifting is easier if you have longer arms. I said deadlifting is easier, if you lifted heavy stuff before not related to deadlifting. Two different points. But I get your point now, that some people are better, because of their genetics.

[–]trees_away 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Exactly that. My genetics give me a super sharp, extremely fast mind (that never wants to sit still). Gives me major advantages in soft-skills. Physically I’m not that talented except for hand/eye coordination from way too many years wasted on video games. But anything that requires learning or understanding I absorb nearly instantly. My brain makes connections to concepts instantly that take others exponentially longer.

[–]donkeydodo 2 points3 points  (0 children)

From my point of perspective, talent for something would be to understand it's concept fairly easy and to be able attain different levels of skills relatively easy. To elaborate, someone is talented in e.g tennis, because they understand the concept deeply enough to be seen as relatively good at it. Someone would be a natural talent in tennis if spoken someone would try tennis for the first time and learn it quickly; that is, how to move, where to aim the ball, how hard to hit etc.

[–]Aweshocked 0 points1 point  (0 children)

See I also had the same belief, but I had a good friend who just doesn't get better at any fucking thing even after 1000's of hours.

Some people just can't

[–]the-ape-of-death 1 point2 points  (0 children)

+1. One of the more constructive pieces of writing I've seen recently and without the use of long-winded examples to prove OP's point.

[–]slumdog-millionaire 1 point2 points  (0 children)

its really fucking funny you say that because the 1st paragraph of this was so poorly written that I stopped reading.

" There always seems to be a very fine line between being cocky and being confident. There is always a confusion about what exactly being cocky is, and what being confident is. Someone might say that someone is a cocky person. Someone might say that someone is confident. As if its a trait of their personality, but it's not white and black."

That's terrible, terrible fucking writing

[–]Jcorb 32 points33 points  (1 child)

I think the problem I suffer with -- and by my estimation, a lot of guys here also do (or at least did) -- is grappling with a constant feeling of "not being good enough". It's a vicious cycle, especially when you come from a family that constantly put you down or even directly told you that you weren't good enough.

Say you see a girl you like. Well, you start assessing things. "Well, if I think she's attractive, so do other guys. Chances are, many if not most of them are more attractive than me. They have better skin, or take better care of their bodies, or make more money, or are smarter...". It can go on and on, to the point you paralyze yourself, because you've essentially weaponized "logic" against yourself.

I think it was Jordan Peterson who'd pointed out, that in our minds, we essentially pick a trait we don't like about ourselves, and intentionally compare that against someone who excels in that area, creating an impossible-to-win scenario in our own heads.

I'm 30 years old, and I'm only just now starting to realize that, you know, it's okay to want things. It doesn't make you "selfish". Or rather, you need to be "selfish" sometimes. Nobody is going to just give you the things you want out of life. No woman will ever fall in love with you "just for being you", you'll never land an awesome job just because you work hard (hard work is an ingredient for success; not the whole recipe), things like that.

I'm still not at a point I'm taking action enough, but at least mentally, I feel like I'm starting to "get it". I'm starting to actually realize, my family actually was really abusive growing up, and I don't deserve to be treated that way. It sounds stupid to say out loud I guess, but that stuff really does mess with your entire outlook on life.

[–]Pilliam66 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I feel this is a common problem growing up with a lack of male influence. The females in my family loved putting me down (especially my older sister) for being a guy and not liking the same pointless shit as them/being masculine/any excuse they could come up with. That shit has an effect on you as an adult but once you've recognised it it's easier to overcome.

[–]2chazthundergut 16 points17 points  (0 children)

Confidence is when you have high value.

Cocky is when you act like you have high value.

Confidence comes from competence, experience, and repeated positive exposure.

Cocky comes from insecurity OR the self-awareness of your own high value

Both are a turn-on to women. You can get away with being cocky if you actually are as high value as you act ... you can't get away with being cocky if you are low-value acting like the king. But you can act like the king if you are the king. If that makes sense.

[–]SasquatchMcKraken 26 points27 points  (3 children)

I'd simplify it and say that cockyness is just the outer trappings of confidence. It isn't necessarily delusional, but it isn't deep. Since it's entirely external it manifests itself in very external ways, often to an obnoxious extent. It must be projected. Confidence can also be projected but it's coming from a much deeper base. A confident person you don't like you'll probably consider cocky, simply because the two have many of the same outward tells. Like a shallow pool versus a deep one, you can't really know the difference for sure until you step in.

[–]beefthathasredmiddle[S] 11 points12 points  (2 children)

I like that "a shallow pool versus a deep one".

I mean, maybe I should have mentioned this. The whole fake it till you make it, is utter nonsense, and you only fool fools. Being cocky is like faking it, but you don't realize you are faking it. The consequences can honestly be brutal. When you are cocky, you don't even realize those consequences are from your actions. It's such a shitty place to be in.

You are totally right. When you are cocky, you need to prove and show that you can do it, because you need to convince others and yourself that aren't a loser. Let's say you are a confident bowler, you are confident because you have bowled a thousand times before. Nothing can surprise you, and your actions have a predictable and desired result, because you KNOW it. Cocky, is BELIEVING, without a sound reason to. Being a confident person, is little different from being a confident bowler, it's just a much larger scale.

[–]SasquatchMcKraken 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Exactly. And the bitch of it is that cocky dudes are often successful for awhile. They actually make it while they fake it. In WWII the Japanese called this "victory disease." The cocky ace the easy stuff, but they have to pray to whatever god they believe in that a real challenge doesn't come and correct their shit. Some of them know this (the insecure). Others don't realize it until it's too late (the deluded).

[–]beefthathasredmiddle[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I like that, the insecure know they are living a lie, but don't want to be exposed. The cocky (deluded), just don't realize they are living a lie.

[–]salinorum 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I’d say confidence is being secure and comfortable in your own skin. It is a willingness even to acknowledge that you are imperfect and lacking in some facets of life. It is being content in an imperfect world.

Cockiness I think is the exact opposite. It an attempt to appear comfortable and competent when really one feels insecure and lacking. Cockiness is thus a stress response to feelings of insufficiency. It is an attempt to mask over ones own feelings of worthlessness. And thus is it both fake and an overcompensation which others can read with too much ease

[–]jonpe87 6 points7 points  (0 children)

You can say that confidence is passive "self-assurance", cockyness is a agressive one.

The problem is: most guys here are interested in those things to have success in life, woman a big one, so, in that matter confidence without a little bit of cockyness is useless to attract other people attention. Sometimes the wrong guy for the job gets the job, the wrong guy for the girl gets the girl for being cocky. Your post is good but is a "hamster material" for the guys that want a more blue pill reality.

[–]1atticusfinch1973 7 points8 points  (0 children)

For me the fine line between cocky and confident is simply this:

A confident person doesn't have to rely on insults or trash talking, they just get the job done. This in our circles is also known as holding frame. Cocky people aren't 100% confident that they can get the job done so they rely on mind games or trash talk to bring their own confidence up.

There's nothing wrong with that and it works for some people but it also always means that there is a part of that person that is afraid they are going to fail.

[–]Paranoidexboyfriend 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Change the article to confident vs arrogant and you are right on. It’s all about congruence. Cocky is a sexy thing to women. It becomes arrogance when it’s completely incongruent (this guy thinks he’s smart when he’s clearly an idiot, signaling hot despite being ugly, etc)

[–]korprus 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I also agree that cockiness is not necessarily a bad thing. A lot of my humor is based on an absurd amount of cockiness, but it's always with a wry smile that signals that I don't take myself or situations too seriously. I've found that this really helps people open up and relax, because most people are generally reserved.

"Cocky-funny" is often written in tandem in seduction circles for precisely this reason. Take out the funny, and you're just a douche.

[–]albino_red_head 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Very true! I will also add something that I learned through David D'Angelo's dating/PUA series over 10 years ago: cocky comedy is gold with attracting women. Acting in a comedic/cocky way. It's basically coveying your confidence of any situation by being absurdly cocky. In fact last night at the bar I observed a new guy at the bar just chatting with a few local older gentlemen and the bartender couldn't keep a smile off her face overhearing this guy. At one point one of the older gentlemen said something to the effect of needing to lose weight as he pointed out his own gut. The cocky/comedy guy just says, "you and me both brother we all got it, it's no accident I've got the body of a Greek God". He obviously wasn't a lifter or fit, he was obviously being absurdly cocky, and the bartender obviously was digging it to some degree. Ultimately he was conveying confidence in himself by joking about it in a non self-depricating way.

In the end cocky comedy or being absurdly cocky ties back to this bit perferctly:

It's an understanding that there are things you are good at, and there are things you are bad at. It's a relationship with the truth, its a truth you trust and know a lot about.

[–]ArdAtak 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I played football in HS and College. During my 2nd year in college I went through a phase where I got the drops. I literally couldn't catch any pass no matter how perfect it was. It was a mental struggle, eventually I worked my way out of it and everything was OK again.

However, during that period I learned very valuable lesson right down to my bones. Confidence isn't knowing with certainty that you're gonna catch the ball. Confidence is knowing that it's OK if you don't. This relaxes you and your natural talent and training take over. You can apply this to any area of life. Around here we call it "outcome indepenance". It's the same thing. Don't get tense, play with joy, and you can do great things.

[–]Meta-h 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Agree with most of this post. Baselining this:

Cocky - an arrogant, condescending dick that thinks he can do anything, even without a pertinent frame of reference or history to show he can.

Confident - a self-assured, trial tested man that comes across as highly capable because he’s proven to himself that he’s willing to commit to an endeavor to make it happen and has the tenacity to see it through.

[–]zyqkvx 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That's one definition of cocky, and with that meaning you made some points. Like in a Webster Dictionary there are more than one meanings to most words.

Another meaning is to be playful and witty, no personal defect required. I like that definition of 'cocky' better.

[–]EdmondDaunts 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The Four Types of Horses story is a compliment to this.

[–]wobbleelbbow 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I always viewed "cockiness" as a positive trait (in right amounts at least). Being confident is great, but being confident and cocky is better. It makes females wet, not just young ones (who prefer cocky dudes) but older women (who like confident men).

Being just enough cocky will open doors to most women's panties. Mere confidence sometimes doesn't do it. It's all about calibration though and it is easy to appear immature and pretty stupid when you try to force cockiness. That's my take on this.

[–]medakulw 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Cocky is when you talk about it. Confident is when you don't

[–]owlsden 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Confucius say man with hand in pocket feel cocky all day.

[–]Confucius-Bot 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Confucius say, boy who go to sleep with sex problem on mind wake up with solution in hand.


"Just a bot trying to brighten up someone's day with a laugh. | Message me if you have one you want to add."

[–]IvyExcess 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Confidence gets you smiles, cockiness gets you blowjobs - my experience

[–]PlzPunchMyFaceOff 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Confidence is knowing that you don't have to announce how great you are at something because if anyone worth your time looks, they'll likely see for themselves... And if they don't, they're not really worth your time. :D

[–]SlothOnRoids 1 point2 points  (0 children)

My take on this subject is that being cocky is a behavior that’s typically displayed by a younger, immature individual. It’s more overt, obnoxious, and overdone. Confidence is a more of an aura that exudes from someone without them saying much at all. You can pick up on it from their body language, tonality, the way they carry themselves.

[–]redwineit 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Honestly love this post.

Probably not adding much here but your point about an honest relationship with failure and the truth really hit home for me.

When you push yourself at gym to failure, you think, 'this is good, I'm improving'.

For some reason there is a tendancy towards viewing failure as this awful thing in many areas of our lives. The right mindset goes a long, long way. And I believe the right mindset is 'failure is good, failure is learning, failure is progress'.

Set out to suceed, but don't fear failure. Expect it. Recognise it when it happens as a milestone on the road to success, keep going, keep failing -success will come.

Thanks for the excellent post OP.

Cheers.

[–]Luckylancer96 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There is a thin line between bravery & stupitdity and cowardice & intelligence -Some dude in my history lessons

[–]realryang 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You beta bitch....

Kidding. Like what you wrote!

[–]PuppersGoneWild 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Also, Arrogance is cockiness motivated by insecurity

[–]MrAnderzon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This post confirms my definition of confidence which i had discovered about a year or so ago.

Confidence is knowing something is true.

An example would be you have put the time and effort in the gym and taking pride in the way you look. Now you're getting more female attention. It's "true" now you're more attractive and more confident.

[–]Aloongish 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Success is really dependent on you and you only. If you blame the external factors, that would be cocky. When you are looking down on others, that would be cocky. “I’m the king of baseball. You’re nothing compared to me.” See “Ian Bernardo” on YouTube for what is cocky / arrogant.

When you blame on something, you’re just shifting your power to someone / something else. Confidence is like trying something fail or no fail, (trial and error). It wouldn’t matter what the end result is. It only matters on what you can take away from the experience.

[–]pohlrich 0 points1 point  (0 children)

describes cocky, describes confident, doesn't actually differentiate between confident vs cocky.

[–]heartofgoldentendies 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I've heard it put that confidence is believing you will succeed, and cockiness is believing you can't fail.

[–]littleboyblu13 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's integrating what you know into your being AND what you don't know into your being. There's always room to acquire wisdom so the unknown doesn't stay in the dark, but one person can't know everything.

[–]Matthias_Foley35 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Beta bitch. Haha.

Seriously tho, that was a stacked analysis. Keep up the good work.

[–]420KUSHBUSH 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"​Hopefully this clears things up. If not, feel free to call me a beta bitch."

A man of class I see

[–]Chaddeus_Rex 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Insecurity is not always about fear or hiding from the truth. Someone can have a relationship with the truth (ie confident) and recognize that they are bad at something and hate that fact. They want to be good at whatever they are bad at (ie getting girls) but it doesnt work so they become insecure.

[–]Narcius 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Your article is confidence. You last line is cocky, beta bitch.

[–][deleted]  (2 children)

[removed]

[–]beefthathasredmiddle[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Top gun is a movie man.

Calling a confident person cocky is just a shit test, don’t get it confused.

Think about real life professionals, where’d the cocky ones end up?

[–]Thaweed -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Turns out im not that confident, im just cocky.

[–]TheTrenTrannyTrain -1 points0 points  (1 child)

Cocky is irrational confidence, but women can't differentiate between the 2, so it's better to be cocky.

[–]theone899 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

If you are being cocky over confident just to please a woman, you're beta.

[–]undextrois -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

OP should read “double your dating by david deAngelo” so that he would not confuse himself. Lmao

[–]ahab_dies -1 points0 points  (0 children)

For me it's about perception.

Let's take one guy. One person will call him confident, the next person will call him cocky.

The difference? The second one dislikes the guy; the first one likes him.

[–]omega_dawg93 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

cocky is confidence that is tainted with ignorance, fear, & being loud to cover-up flaws.

pure confidence is remaining calm as your weaknesses get exposed while moving forward with your strengths down-played... silent during chaos but filled with (positive) action.

[–]lehappyjuice -5 points-4 points  (1 child)

Cocky is when you are ugly not a chad top 10%. Confident is when you are top 10% in the looks department.

End. I look forward to your cope and downvotes.

[–]DocZTheRockstar 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You don't need looks to be confident. Tom Leykis for example. It helps though lol

[–]Thunderbird93 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Great post. I think the answer is the Aristotelian Golden Mean. A coward is pusillanimous,a fearless one is foolhardy, courage lies between. Seems balance is essential. Nice read

[–]dumbkidaccount -3 points-2 points  (1 child)

Chad = confident

Average Joe = cocky

[–]Sqtlol 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Writing a comment like that = insecure