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Red Pill TheoryDon't bother with her if you already lost frame. Not worth the time or effort. (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by Renzotl56

I've seen it happen one too many times, i've gone through it one too many times and sometimes we are just persistent mofos that don't want to believe.

Once a lady breaks your frame or gets you in hers, it's almost absolutely game over. You could be banging her brains out Monday, but if she notices you're a little bitch on Wednesday you'll never see her again.

Sometimes we like to lie to ourselves and say we already smashed once we can do it again. But nope that is bull, she'll think the first time was a mistake and regret it. You won't even get a text back.

Once you lose it, just accept it and move on. Learn from your mistakes and don't fuck up with the next girl. There's way too many women out there and i know it's hard to believe sometimes especially when you aren't getting any. But that's just when you have to work on yourself.

Not saying you can't get her back into your frame, just saying it's almost never worth the effort and time. Don't ever slip up, it's happened way too much to me in the past and every now then we all slip up.

Let them go and focus on the new ones. Way too much chicks out there to stress over any of them.

Edit: Read through the comments to see what frame is. Tired of getting that question. do your research.


[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 355 points356 points  (52 children)

Iron Rule of Tomassi #7

It is always time and effort better spent developing new, fresh, prospective women than it will ever be in attempting to reconstruct a failed relationship. Never root through the trash once the garbage has been dragged to the curb. You get messy, your neighbors see you do it, and what you thought was worth digging for is never as valuable as you thought it was.

From: https://therationalmale.com/category/iron-rules/

[–]banjew 49 points50 points  (13 children)

Iron Rule of Tomassi #7 It is always time and effort better spent developing new, fresh, prospective women

I know I will get voted down but, this law doesn't applies everytime, like all laws.

Example 1: She's the mother of your child. It might be worthwhile to try and recover a lost frame.

Example 2: She's shares some very specific experience that makes relationship worthwhile, I.E. Both of you are nuclear engineers. I mean, yes, you can always dump your nuclear engineer girlfriend and get another regular bitch, but when will you get another one that shares your career/values/work? I think in this case you might want to expend a little bit extra effort, even if it means an almost certain loss.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 32 points33 points  (0 children)

Example 1 doesn't conflict with Rollo's statement. He says it's less effort, not more worthwhile.

Example 2 again youi're talking about relationship value. Rollo is saying it's easier.

You have to be aware though... in both your examples.... she'll sense her higher value and exploit you or tire of you accordingly.

She... for her part.... doesn't give a flying fuck if you're the father of her child or a fellow nuclear engineer, beta is beta and she'd rather fuck Chad in both cases.

[–]Endorsed Contributorex_addict_bro 22 points23 points  (4 children)

Go see married red pill reddit to see how hard it is to recover from a lost frame when married.

[–]1GreenPiller 10 points11 points  (3 children)

Holy shit, that must be hell

[–]p3n1x 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Its a roller-coaster.

Many wives love it, but the work needed is insane, because she will constantly fall back into the negative loops quickly. It is usually a good point for most husbands to also realize they suck in bed, learn to fuck.

If you don't have kids, get the fuck out. Rule #7

If she has too many 'options', if she is too far gone, there is no recovery, just divorce rape.

[–]1GreenPiller 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Its just so easy for a wife to be swept away by another Chad. Its a losing game if you ask me...

[–]p3n1x 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I firmly believe in Rule #7, but some men insist they can change the natural laws to make the "experienced men laws" fit their Disneyland.

Their are a "FUG load" of husbands who truly believe they can rewire their wives brains and turn them into men/buddies they get to fuck and hang out with.

[–]TheRationalMale.comRollo-Tomassi 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Even if you could go back to where you were, any relationship you might have with an ex will be colored by all of the issues that led up to the breakup. In other words, you know what the end result of those issues has been. It will always be the 800 pound. gorilla in the room in any future relationship. As I elaborated in the Desire Dynamic, healthy relationships are founded on genuine mutual desire, not a list of negotiated terms and obligations, and this is, by definition, exactly what any post-breakup relationship necessitates. You or she may promise to never do something again, you may promise to “rebuild the trust”, you may promise to be someone else, but you cannot promise to accept that the issues leading up to the breakup don’t have the potential to dissolve it again. The doubt is there. You may be married for 30 years, but there will always be that one time when you two broke up, or she fucked that other guy, and everything you think you’ve built with her over the years will always be compromised by that doubt of her desire.

You will never escape her impression that you were so optionless you had to beg her to rekindle her intimacy with you.

None of this changes under either of your given circumstances.

[–]TheCaveMo712 4 points5 points  (1 child)

You can't make rules based on the exception, you have to go by the general Truth.

[–]j4m13braxh 5 points6 points  (0 children)

He's not saying change the rule he's just pointing out certain exceptions as it can be harmful and ignorant to take into account certain situational nuances.

[–]RedPillHanSolo 3 points4 points  (1 child)

What blue faggots did upvote it I wonder. I'll bite:

Example 1: She's the mother of your child. It might be worthwhile to try and recover a lost frame.

Children are separate from a broad. Even if you sugarcoat her in a "mother of my child". Your child may be saint to you, not his mother.

one that shares your career/values/work?

So, bonding with women like you bond with men? Just lol.

[–]Endorsed Contributormallardcove 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Was wondering the same thing. Total garbage.

[–]p3n1x 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You will never escape her impression that you were so optionless you had to beg her to rekindle her intimacy with you.

Behaving weak for your own selfish needs. Not only that, but she will always see that weakness in you and never forgive it.

expend a little bit extra effort

This is a very large blanket statement. Where is the line, "extra effort" of what type and at what cost to your already ruined frame with her?

this law doesn't applies everytime, like all laws.

You could follow this sentence with any opinion in the universe. What is the point of being nit picky about 1% situations? This reminds me of the movie Dumb and Dumber, "so you're telling me there's a chance.." - Lloyd

[–]Smigg_e 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I think guys do it (I know I have) because they feel guilty and ashamed that they fucked up. So they try and recover from the fuck up to prove to themselves their not actually a twerp. Most guys have trouble accepting they in fact were the ones who created the garbage and don't want to leave it at a mistake.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Absolutely. Then once you accept it's your fault you have to work through the regret.

[–]slumdog-millionaire 26 points27 points  (29 children)

Plus if you do flip her back into your frame later it's really satisfying to just walk away, the more she realizes she missed out the more she'll cry

[–]JBo4Three 98 points99 points  (3 children)

This is a whiny mindset. Just move on and don't think about her. Any reaction shows you're still invested.

[–]fromthecrypt8 5 points6 points  (1 child)

While that's certainly true in many cases, sometimes it's just satisfying to give her a little something to think about upon the outro.

[–]p3n1x 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Satisfying the inner neck-beard is a waste of your time and childish.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 18 points19 points  (24 children)

the more she realizes she missed out the more she'll cry

Women don't cry at the end of relationships or when they lose a guy. At least not for long.

[–]slumdog-millionaire 8 points9 points  (15 children)

I went back and found the post for you but it wont allow me to link it

Just search "An Awalt classic" in this subreddit search bar and it will come up, first result

That's what I'm talking about. I understand what you're saying, girls have options but the key to what I'm saying is that she realizes you're a man of value and she fucked up. Like a man that comes along in 100 or 1000 or fuck it a million men, then she'll be fucking crying I promise you that

Isn't that basically what an alpha widow is, my nigga you have a senior endorsed tag, surely you get what I'm saying

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 8 points9 points  (1 child)

Yeah, the alpha widow thing happens.

But most guys get too lost in "ha! she's sorry now!" or "she's crying for weeks after losing me".

I've seen girls go from crying to laughing within a couple of seconds. It's rare that they care that much about a guy, and even rarer that they blame themselves for fucking up. Usually they find a way to blame the guy as part of their moving on process.

[–]slumdog-millionaire 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I see where you're coming from but I think you're underestimating how much they care. Dude I'm not talking about like a girl who barely knows you and never sees you again passes.

I'm talking about the post that I gave as an example, where she's talking about the money or the guy she expresses deep regret, the money is part of the man in that case, that's why she's kicking herself so hard. It's all spelled out in that post, out off her own mouth man.

That's the kind of situation I'm talking about. and i don't know about you but i'd rather get the last laugh on a bitch than vice versa or any person for that matter

[–]MillionaireSexbomb 6 points7 points  (4 children)

The only thing you stand to gain from her crying is making your butthurt ego feel better

[–]Kingoffistycuffs 0 points1 point  (2 children)

And? Feeling and doing better is the name of the game. You can do both at once? Good on that guy. Maybe once enough good men kick enough women to the curb they'll change their tune a little bit.

[–]fedja 2 points3 points  (0 children)

If someone else feeling bad makes you feel better by definition you're petty and weak. Revenge is the refuge of those that don't have the strength to plan for the future.

[–]MillionaireSexbomb 4 points5 points  (0 children)

It takes a while but you learn to let go a lot easier and it transfers over to a lot of other aspects of your life you'll find increased happiness and mental wealth in if you learn that concept. They won't change, they'll continue to do more of the same because this is their instinct and they need a man who can fulfill it as much as possible, but they will always have that pull.

[–]juliusstreicher 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Nothing wrong with that, especially if it is in doing right!

[–]rikleeRed42 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Ive had girls deeply regret having me walk away. There can be a great power in walking away and ignoring a girl who you used to give all your attention too. It really fucks with their heads and egos.

Girls can get oneitis too and go through the same shit as we do.

[–]p3n1x 1 point2 points  (2 children)

The point though is enjoying her suffering. You think you are being a badass when unfortunately you are just being invested in her. You are being a woman.

[–]rikleeRed42 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Fuck i hate to admit it, youre right. Ive done that in the past. Yeah it was passive aggressive.

I missed the point.

[–]p3n1x 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Fuck i hate to admit it

The best part of The Red Pill. That, "ahaa" moment.

[–]p3n1x -1 points0 points  (2 children)

you're a man of value and she fucked up

If you are a man of value, she won't fuck up in the first place. If you are a man of value, you won't rut through the trash to satisfy your insecurities.

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

[deleted]

    [–]p3n1x 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    she will likely fuck up

    Solipsism. In your 'box' is exactly right.

    [–]WolfofAnarchy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Wrong. I know plenty. Why do you make false statements like these? After all these years of TRP you still don't know that women are insanely emotional and live by them, instead of being rational like most men are?

    [–]slumdog-millionaire 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    I don't necessarily mean cry in the literal sense but if you are a man of value and she realizes she really fucked up and missed out t I can guarantee she'll regret it for the rest of her life. I know I did this to at least one girl.

    Think of the story of the guy whose gf broke up with him and later found out he was loaded, it was on 2x chromosomes and it was linked in this subreddit like a few months ago.

    Do you remember that story? The girl describes how bad she was hurting cuz she realized she fucked up and the guy had moved on.

    That's what I'm talking about

    [–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    Do you remember that story?

    I do. She was only sorry when she found out about the money. So it's the money she missed/cared about, not the guy.

    [–][deleted]  (1 child)

    [deleted]

      [–]slumdog-millionaire 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      he's wrong on this one, see my replies to him,

      [–]Psycholephant 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      An amazing book. Im going to give it multiple listens throughout my life.

      [–]Higuy013 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Wow brutal, but so true. I just got out of a 15 month relationship, this is what I needed to help get me past it

      [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      This is even the case with broads you dated when they were in their prime and you weren't. Now, years later when they approaching the wall and I'm entering my prime they still see me as the beta I was back then. I mean, unless you can demonstrate high value in person, she'll always imagine the beta boy you used to be.

      [–]Brickick 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      Same goes for women/men dating men.

      [–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      1. Who gives a fuck

      2. Men don't try to destroy women's frame. To do so would be trivially easy but counter productive.

      [–]amekooky 99 points100 points  (22 children)

      cried(lost frame) in front of my unicorn (easily hb8) when a great friend drowned to death. (I was 17 at the time) she dumped me shortly after

      I went into a jealous rage(lost frame) with a sexy female at 19. she dumped me a few days after.

      during college days, LTR at the time went to another college an hour away. we went from having crazy sex to mundane sex after I got needy(lost frame). I dumped her shortly after, to avoid the inevitable.

      post college LTR (this is the one that drove me here last year) I kept it cool always, however when I got into legal trouble (misconduct at a sporting event) I got nervous and turned into a little bitch(lose frame). even though we were engaged, she dumped me shortly after. (great timing looking back)

      first plate after the red pill, we have crazy sex.. I dump her, she cries back for me. I come back(lose frame), we have crazy sex one more time and then she ghosts me.

      still learning all this bullshit, but one thing is I see a trending pattern, which definitely supports OP

      [–][deleted] 29 points30 points  (0 children)

      If you see crying after losing a close friend as a loss of frame, you are seriously too deep in TRP. It might have not helped with the girl, but dude, who the fuck cares in such a situation. I hope you don't, gain some perspective.

      [–]Fapisluv 31 points32 points  (15 children)

      Crying because your friend died isnt considered a loss of frame by anyone...it is in the least considered a societal norm and at most something that everyone is encouraged to do.Your unicorn just ditched you because she already wanted to.You might have had low smv or failed shit tests.Dont beat yourself over that,you not crying at that moment wouldnt make her stay longer.

      Jealous rage?Everyone here knows guys that are even beating their girlfriends during such outrages(notice the plural) and the girls come back for more.One trick is never to apologise for whatever you feel and say and do.

      At your third case,congrats,you saved her the trouble.You had kinda low smv i guess,you also failed hard due to neediness.In ltrs and long distance ones always accept that you should show the woman less than half the interest she shows to you.And find some other women to occupy yourself with.Dont go to their place unless they come to yours first.

      4th case indeed you turned to a beta.Dont show anxiety over insignificant things to women.They ghost hard,even your female "friends" wont be talking to you much.

      I am saying all of these,to show you,that most of your examples are not a loss of frame.They were a result of circumstances and maybe low smv.Whether your frame was good or not,it wouldnt matter much,with the exception of the legal trouble example.Your loss of frame ruined it.As for the plate example,well,read on comfort tests and how to recognise them and discern them from shit tests.You were probably comfort tested a lot,and she ditched you to save face.

      [–]morexel 45 points46 points  (13 children)

      Girls will not forgive you for crying under any circumstances in my experience. Lost two friends on duty under my command and my gf was repulsed that I wasn't 100% that week. This is the sickening reality. I know people wish otherwise. But that doesn't make it so.

      [–]InterNetting 30 points31 points  (5 children)

      You prob cried like a baby. You gotta cry like that Indian shedding a single tear over the pollution of the earth, like a man.

      [–]haroldpeters 46 points47 points  (1 child)

      and while you cry you should be lifting with one arm, and texting more plates with the other.

      [–]Shaman6624 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      You're making a joke of it but he has a point.

      [–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (1 child)

      deleted What is this?

      [–]morexel 3 points4 points  (0 children)

      I'm fervently taking notes for the next time.

      [–]jumpinglane 4 points5 points  (0 children)

      there is a difference between crying because of grief and crying because of self-pity or weakness. if a woman leaves you for the first, she is not worth a second of your lifetime. if she leaves you for the latter, you shouldn't be surprised.

      [–]1Original_Dankster 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Fuckin truth amigo. Sad but true.

      [–]Shaman6624 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      If I cry with my gf nearby I always cry from a place of power. I don't cry like a child to his mother.

      [–]Senior Contributordr_warlock 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      Cry in your car. Wait until your eyes are normal color, then return like nothing happened.

      [–]p3n1x 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Girls will not forgive you for crying under any circumstances

      Bullshit. If they don't "forgive" you for crying over a dear loved one, hell, even a dog. Then you are being a total pussy in some other part of the relationship and blaming it on the tears. Woman understand emotions (men barely do), none of them expect their men to be blocks of concrete in normal circumstances.

      [–]destraht 3 points4 points  (0 children)

      I wrote on the main thread about how I broke down into a drunken sobbing fool in Ukraine after seeing photos of an organized reunion to remember my young brother who had died very suddenly about four years before. I was drunk as a skunk and I just lost it after seeing everyone around with some photos of my brother. The temporary live-in chick had come for a prolonged visit from another city and it was going pretty ok until that happened. She was a raging bitch from the next day onwards and I had to send her home early and then I blew her off.

      [–]WolfofAnarchy 8 points9 points  (3 children)

      cried(lost frame)

      Fuck everything about that. You didn't lose frame, you were being human.

      Crying is okay. This sub is sometimes so fucking extreme, man. Can you imagine how Beta you have to be to not cry about your dear friend because there's a girl nearby, and you care so much about her that you keep your emotions in yourself?

      Fuck that girl, you lost a friend.

      [–]Rapante 10 points11 points  (2 children)

      Crying is okay. This sub is sometimes so fucking extreme, man.

      This sub ist not about how we would like the world to be, but about the cold and harsh consequences of our actions.

      [–]WolfofAnarchy 8 points9 points  (1 child)

      That doesn't matter. Don't give a fuck about the consequences. Put yourself first. Another RP teaching

      [–]Rapante 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      Putting yourself first means making smart decisions to your own benefit. In the context of this sub this also means not to sabotage your sexual strategy by disregarding everything TRP teaches. Which is what you do when you too broadly apply IDGAF to everything. Certain actions have predictable outcomes, consideration of which is what gives us power. Otherwise this sub would be pointless.

      [–]majorbollocks[🍰] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      I think dread game does get a girl interested in you again. Especially stuff she gets from gossiping aka other girls or even beta simps

      [–]yummyluckycharms 69 points70 points  (7 children)

      A truism when it comes to relationships.....

      "A broken vase can be patched, but the cracks will always remain visible."

      Its always better to go get another vase

      [–]Shaman6624 -2 points-1 points  (5 children)

      Depends on how you define cracks. If cracks are failures or something then you and your partner can learn from them.

      And as to your metaphor:

      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kintsugi

      [–]yummyluckycharms 2 points3 points  (3 children)

      I appreciate your optimism when it comes to dating, but take it from a guy who has been around the block more than a few times - it just doesnt work in reality.

      Cracks in a relationship happen for a reason - it usually takes a while for one or the both of you to realize what that reason is and to end the relationship. To move on and forgive was super rare in the past, nearly impossible in todays world where your next relationship is just a click away

      [–]Shaman6624 0 points1 point  (2 children)

      Well I'm not sucking it out of my thumb either. I'm speaking from experience. But like i said it depends on how you define cracks. Maybe you mean something else.

      [–]p3n1x 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      Maybe she's fucking somebody else and you just don't know it yet. Because you know, you "fixed" it.

      [–]Shaman6624 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      I didn't fix anything. A crack might be caused by a difference in values. A crack is anytime it isn't 100% good. (Which is most of the time because you grow because you acknowledge you are not were you want to be yet). Her going out of your frame completely is not a cracked vase. That's a vase that went through the hydraulic press.

      [–]cl3537 54 points55 points  (2 children)

      This advice is dicey at best, especially if you aren't sure how much you 'lost frame'. If you smashed already she has already hamstered in her head that you were worth it, otherwise she made a mistake which women hate to admit.

      You should just regain frame ask her to your place, put in minimal effort for plans, and plan something where indirectly it is clear you want sex again. If she balks a couple times you can bail, but make her say no to 'your' plans three times before you giveup.

      Getting women to the smashing point is a numbers game for everyone and not easy, throwing out potential lays because your ego can't handle a women giving you a little resistance is just amateurish.

      You will still get shit tested after you have sex, it didn't use to be this prevalent but with modern day women and hypergamy they just don't think sex is that big a deal anymore.

      [–]alexclarkbarry 12 points13 points  (0 children)

      TL;DR: DON'T NOT MAKE A MOVE BECAUSE "SOMEONE IN TRP REDDIT SAID IT WAS BETTER TO NEXT HER"!!! I agree this is really dicey, sounds like OP is way overthinking the situation that he is in. Everybody debating weather to move on from a girl based on a post like this should think, am I really going to not hit her up because of what someone posting on reddit said? If you are thinking about not texting her, you are not in your own frame, but in the frame of some stranger on the internet who might not even get girls at all. Is your frame strong enough where she will hang out with you? If yes text her and make a move, but for the love of god choose to not hang out with a girl because of what someone on reddit says, thats really fucking lame.

      [–]Endorsed ContributorMetalgear222 10 points11 points  (2 children)

      Always be more willing to walk away than her. Or like Patrice said, "Be ready to take an L"

      [–]StudntRdyTeachrApear 2 points3 points  (1 child)

      This is the most valuable piece of advice from the black phillips show IMO. Every man alive today owes it to himself to listen to the entire series though. The natural segues into harsh truths and how they develop on show because of Patrice's blunt charm is a must listen.

      [–]quicklogaccount 56 points57 points  (17 children)

      I beg to disagree there.

      It's totally possible to reset. The good way to do it is forget about her for some time, do your thing and message her after a while.
      It's not even hard to do. Soft next, "we need to catch up", escalate aggressively.

      [–]GoblinSupply 24 points25 points  (4 children)

      I think it's more effective to forget about her until she contacts you. Then remember that you'd forgotten about her so you win. At that point pump her if you please, but don't go past that point.

      [–]Red_Faust 5 points6 points  (1 child)

      Agreed with both quicklogaccount's and GoblinSupply's comments.

      If you do not have experience, better to let it go instead of obsessing.

      If you have some experience, you can experiment with different no-contact times to see how and when can you reset the frame.

      If you already know what you're doing and you have abundance mentality, you can let it go because you have other girls, but if and when she contacts you, you've got the tools to reel her in.

      [–]adultman5 3 points4 points  (0 children)

      Completely agree.

      If you're a newbie, you'll just slip up again soon enough.

      If you're experienced, no contact until she texts is often a nice soft reset. When they know you left orbit it drives them crazy, often enough to forget what happened, or at least suppress it.

      When she asks "how you been" after that no contact make sure to be positive, energetic but NOT too eager.

      She will text you like one of those beta cucks asking how was your day, whats up, asking stupid follow up questions on your answers, make sure not to pull until you feel the conversation is high energy and you're the interesting guy again.

      The pull also has to be "we could hang/catch a movie tomorrow", casual as fuck.

      [–]thesmithofwords 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      I agree with this. I lost frame with a girl (opened up about my life and problems with depression and anxiety, I know, stupid) and after a month of no contact she texted me today.

      [–]quicklogaccount 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      If you don't eventually contact her you'll be passing on a chick you want to and could bang.

      The only catch there is doing your thing instead of "waiting". Then you win no matter what.

      [–]Fapisluv 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      I remember an article on the sidebar which was describing exactly how long to wait for(at least 3 months after breaking up) and how to do it.

      [–]quicklogaccount 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      It depends on what you fucked up.
      For instance, if you hesitated to escalate and had a window closing three months is far too much, you won't want to waste the momentum. A couple weeks will probably do the trick.

      [–]Shaman6624 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Read this on a pua forum 5 years ago.

      [–]adultman5 0 points1 point  (8 children)

      I agree, if you didn't slip up hard, reset is possible with complete radio silence or dread game if possible (her hearing / seeing pics of you with women).

      For instance, I've been seeing this really feminine HB8, acts like a child, entitled, strong feminine energy, makeup fashion and all that shit.

      It looked like it's going somewhere (main plate now), saw her Friday after a night out, fucked and I came in her mouth by not letting her move her head off my dick, she got mad and said "I HURT HER FEELINGS" and proceeded to give me silent treatment, I really don't enjoy sleeping next to a person like that so we're either working this out or she's going home.

      I didn't apologize (never apologize) but I said that we can make a safeword, she refuses to talk, I tell her NOT to push me, we can work this out, shit happened. She immediately goes into submissive mode again, BUT she did scratch my frame a little there, not much but I had to "cave" and start talking to her instead of just going to sleep.

      Next day I'm attending some wedding, we text around, I ask her to come over later since we spent only couple of hours last night. She says sure, but then flakes. I'm like "okay". (never get mad!)

      Met another girl, pulled and fucked same night. But the main girl doesn't know I pulled the heaviest dread, so it's not really valuable.

      Now it's sunday and I ASK her again, we can catch a movie and hang. She apparently has university early and stuff.

      Note that in the early stages she'd go to uni with NO sleep, but now it's not an option.

      So we have 2 rejections here, treaded into needy mode and only option was COMPLETE radio silence. Again irony is, I literally pulled another girl last night, but fuck it, the girl doesn't know. All she knows is she rejected me TWICE so far.

      I think I didn't break frame enough and that this soft reset with no contact (until she texts, which im positive she will) will do just fine.

      But this girl is like, womyn 101 and I'm 100% sure she'd be unforgiving to any major slip up which again gives me anxiety about LTRs with any girl that isn't far under your SMV.

      [–]kokoke 2 points3 points  (1 child)

      So you pulled another girl..fucked her and still called up your main plate the next day.

      You either have zero abundance mentality even when you have abundance or your just lying and didn't pull anything except for your dick.

      [–]adultman5 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      So you pulled another girl..fucked her and still called up your main plate the next day. You either have zero abundance mentality even when you have abundance or your just lying and didn't pull anything except for your dick.

      The fuck you on about?

      I like my main plate and I wanted to be with her, when she said she can't make it the other day, I used my time to fuck another girl.

      [–]quicklogaccount 0 points1 point  (3 children)

      Soooooooooooooooooo. You picked up the very worst aspects of blue pill and applied on the situation to try to solve it and it didn't work?
      What could have possibly gone wrong?

      It's no time for dread for you. You damaged comfort levels.
      Dread is something you use to have the chick reassessing your SMV when she's looking down on you, your first behavior wasn't unattractive, it was just asshole. What followed up was unattractive though, but given your frame you'd be seen as non reliable if you use dread, which is also unattractive.

      [–]adultman5 0 points1 point  (2 children)

      Its hilarious how negative redpillers can sometimes be, you're literally hamstering how dread game is a bad thing right now.

      [–]quicklogaccount 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      Dread game is no panacea.

      Dread game raises your value a little by showing pre selection but its magic is making the chick reassess your value.
      In LTRs the chick eventually stops seeing you and her for what you are and starts believing she's above you because she gets to seduce you. The "add her SMV on the top of yours" thing. Dread works like magic to get this fixed.

      You didn't have a SMV issue for starters. You came in her mouth, she got pissed and put you in the fridge.
      Now god knows what was the right thing to do to soother her anger but you did the most blue pill shit you could. "I did nothing wrong, lalala, we can have a safe word". I wonder if you actually sounded as childish as it seems.

      Anyway, two refusals later you might have actually lowered your smv there so dread might be the way to go, but active dread will be tricky as shit for you, you're low on comfort. Just go bang the chicks so you don't get thirsty and soft next instead of rubbing on her nose how unimportant she is to you.

      [–]adultman5 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      You didn't have a SMV issue for starters. You came in her mouth, she got pissed and put you in the fridge.

      She's very conservative when it comes to sex, doesn't know how to fuck and barely wanted to suck my dick because she's afraid of my potential STDs. We got over that but girl cant even put half of it in her mouth without choking.

      From my experience pushing girls out of the comfort zone worked out well for me, I didn't SURPRISE came in her mouth, she knew I was going to cum and she was like "Dont in my mouth please" I was like hell no and it happened. At any point she did not resist like she truly wanted not to, it was mostly like LMR, please dont but hey i wont give that much resistance.

      Now god knows what was the right thing to do to soother her anger but you did the most blue pill shit you could. "I did nothing wrong, lalala, we can have a safe word".

      I didnt say I did nothing wrong, I chose my words carefully. The tone was not regretful, it was more like "I dont want you to feel bad" but I want to keep cumming in your mouth and I'd do it again. We can make a safeword for next time.

      In retrospective it sounded rational as fuck, unapologetic but still acknowledging her feelz.

      I wanted to do that because my n count is super high and I treat women like plates with zero remorse. Full on AF. I have a reputation for it, but...I got tired of it, I literally fucked two new girls this week and I felt nothing, basically like fapping, but its a person.

      Gets super boring. For that silent treatment I'd usually send them home and they'd come back for more later but they eventuall start to resent me because Chad is fun only for some time, hard sex, tingles and stuff, without the BB component plates expire after a month or two, 6 tops. So I realized I can't keep doing that shit to every girl, man needs some feelz too.

      Anyway, two refusals later you might have actually lowered your smv there so dread might be the way to go, but active dread will be tricky as shit for you, you're low on comfort. Just go bang the chicks so you don't get thirsty and soft next instead of rubbing on her nose how unimportant she is to you.

      I'm not trying to dread her, I guess my post was confusing a little. I was just stating the irony.

      3 days later I invited her again (5 mins ago) to which she said she wakes up at 7 AM to go to her new job at her dad's. Which is not a lie. I said she can sleep over and go to work or she can go home earlier and have some sleep.

      She said she'll come now. Maybe it's all in my head, that saturday the deal was that she comes to my place at 2-3AM after I'm done clubbing with friends. Sunday was nasty as she did really have to wake up early monday. Maybe she's playing defensive because she knows I'm not going out to "dance and have fun with my friends!", I go out to hunt.

      Or maybe I did truly slip up and she isn't that eager anymore. I guess it will be a little clearer after tonight.

      I'm fairly new to introducing AF BB concepts and I'm sure I'll fail now and then with the dose of BB, trial & error.

      EDIT- She's sleeping now, it went great, she still did mention that cumming in mouth thing a couple of times, probably fishing for an apology or remorse, I did show slight remorse again but no apology. I blamed it on my "intensiveness" and apparently I had a couple of beers that night she says.

      I came in her mouth again this time, she didn't want to but I told her I won't force her today but "do it for me", she did so that went okay.

      No clue what's going on with her rejecting me twice that weekend, she'll now get 3 hours of sleep only before work and that sucks (I'd reject myself if I knew I had only 3 hours of sleep just for a fuck so can't blame her there lol)

      [–]clearwatermo 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      She's soft nexting you. Chad was there Saturday and Sunday. This plate is broken.

      [–]adultman5 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Strong pessimism there. I'm the chad, I'd honestly be surprised if this girl found another chad better than me, if she did, well that's the course of life isn't it. I had my turn.

      [–]complyordie222 26 points27 points  (1 child)

      A lot of people missing the point here. If you want to repeatedly fuck plates no strings attached follow this advice. This does not apply to your purple pill relationship.

      [–]nazis_are_socialists 24 points25 points  (2 children)

      So true.

      In my blue pill college days, an HB7 was cheating on her boyfriend with me. She tried to get me to commit but I wouldn't because she is a proven cheater. I just kept leading her on by telling her I wasn't ready for a relationship and that we should just take it slow. Because I was afraid if I told her I didn't want a relationship that she'd stop having sex and hanging out with me.

      We went to a party where she was being real flirty with both girls and guys and making plans with them to "hang out", ignoring me and shit. She was trying to dread game me. She is a woman so she is solipsistic and thinks that dreading a guy will make him more attracted to her. But all it did was piss me off, so I left and went for a walk.

      When I got back she suddenly was paying attention to me again and asking where I went. I know now that by disappearing, she thought I was ignoring her and going off to socialize with others because I didn't give a fuck about her. So I made it look like I held frame. If I would have dropped it, I would have been fine.

      But then later I lost frame by confronting her about flirting with other people and she flipped out on me and I never banged her again.

      Blue pill me had weak frame. Blue pill me wanted commitment from my plates without providing the same commitment in return. Don't be blue pill me.

      [–]lbrownlbandit 2 points3 points  (1 child)

      Honestly, in the same shoes as you were back in college. I want girls to be loyal to me but I'm not to them, how did you get over that cause I'm having trouble not accepting them not falling head over heels for me. It gets hard to hold frame.

      [–]nazis_are_socialists 8 points9 points  (0 children)

      Abundance mentality is how you get over it. I was worried about her stopping banging me because I had scarcity mentality. I only had two plates I was spinning at that time. You either don't give a fuck about them because they are replaceable, or you find a girl who is LTR worthy and commit to her. The latter was what I was ultimately trying to do at the time.

      Your SMV has to be crazy high for her to be loyal to you and ok with you banging other women. Or convert to Mormonism or Islam.

      [–][deleted]  (1 child)

      [deleted]

      [–]1BadDayAway 8 points9 points  (0 children)

      This is exactly what I needed. Thank you.

      [–]rubenescaray 6 points7 points  (4 children)

      Beginner here, how do I know if I have lost frame?

      I know some of you will say 'sidebar' but I'm not a native english speaker so frame means something to me in other languages and can't find a word that means the same in my native language

      [–]ttkkk 14 points15 points  (0 children)

      You are doing all the chase, she is the prize in your mind and in hers and you are operating within her standards not yours.

      [–]Nicolay77 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      Frame as in scaffolding. Self support, self reliance.

      Also the lack of a need to lean on others to live your life.

      [–]OpyDopey 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      Frame is you being you, essentially. You're confident, you're strong willed, you're sure about all that you do. If she makes you question your past actions, apologise for something, look unconfident/out of control your frame is broken.

      [–]jonib0ni 14 points15 points  (0 children)

      100% agree. Chasing after a girl you have already lost is not only a waste of time and effort, it will also fuck up your self esteem. Been there far too many times.

      [–]WISE_TURD 5 points6 points  (0 children)

      This advice is good because being able to walk away and having abundance mentality will inherently boost your frame.

      It's not necessary that you actually walk away, but it's imperative that you know with 100% confidence that you can walk away and get a hotter girl. This confidence usually comes after a few times of walking away.

      [–]alexclarkbarry 5 points6 points  (0 children)

      Remember guys this is about YOUR OWN FRAME! There are a lot of comments on here saying you should just next a girl you have already closed with. Lets say you like a girl and already closed her, but she wasn't feeling it that day are you really not going to hit her up because "This one TRP post said I should next her so im done". One thing I have learned on this thread is take EVERYTHING on here with a grain of salt, including what I am typing now. If you think you have a chance, go for it, but not texting her because a post like this one says you should move on is not having your own frame, it is adopting the frame of a random stranger over the internet, be in YOUR FRAME, not some stranger's on the internet.

      [–]ThickDickWarrior89 19 points20 points  (0 children)

      This is some blue pill shit. You realize you can reframe if you do fuck up right?

      [–]NibblyPig 14 points15 points  (4 children)

      Simply not true otherwise dread game would not exist

      [–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor 13 points14 points  (0 children)

      Dread counters a break-out attempt. Women do that all the time.

      [–]StudntRdyTeachrApear 11 points12 points  (0 children)

      This. Dread is women's kryptonite. However, I'm starting to really think I'll never co-habitate with a woman ever again, for that reason. It's so effective to have your own place to go to and passively generate mystique. I suppose a truly excellent man can sustain a marriage, or life on impossible mode today, and manage to not lose too much ground. But even then, today's culture is moving in the direction of men and women being autonomous regarding living situations. They come together when they feel like it, and head back to their cave when they're done. Never before in human history have women had the luxury of maintaining their own cave without real fear of harm. Of course, this doesn't take the wellbeing of child rearing into account. Anyway, /endrant

      [–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (1 child)

      This is more applicable to LTR's & marriage.

      Dread is only worth the time & effort if you're already dating her.

      [–]Reliiq 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Any link to share about dread? Thank you!

      [–]Ananonguy88 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      You can get her back but it requires shitload of effort and time indeed.

      Unless you are seeing her daily (classes, workplace) better move on.

      Otherwise raising from the bottom is a good training and can be treated as such.

      [–]TunedtoPerfection 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      It's not worth the time and effort to chase a woman, ever.

      There is no exception to this rule. No not even that one you will think up after staring at your blinking cursor for an hour. The reason is simple, when a woman knows your chasing her, she will fuck around with your time until she gets bored with you then move on almost instantly. There will be no remorse for it, hell they will even be shitty about it because "that's what guys do." Remember you are not being judged on your actions, you are being judged of the actions of "Men". Not just any "Men" but the actions of the "Men" she and her friends bitch about constantly, better known as that Chad that pumped and dumped her after a week before she latched on to you.

      [–]RollyPollyPanda 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      My LTR of a year saw me break into tears when something we we're watching reminded me of my children who I haven't seen in three years. I didn't look at her as I fought to stop the tears and hold back obvious sobs. It was plain as day that I was uncomfortable showing her these emotions. She asked me what was wrong and I just pointed at the TV and said "that just reminded me how much I miss my kids." She gave me a hug from behind and said I was doing great, to keep working towards getting them back and she supported me completely in that endeavor. At this point I had stopped the water works and told her she was going to make a great mother one day. She was beaming the rest of the night even thou I did not say a great mother to MY kids. The sec that night was extra intense.

      If I had wept in her arms like she was mommy that would be a total frame break. That she could see I was dealing with something overwhelming and not putting my weakness onto her actually showed her my strength dealing with something she would not be able to endure . Not every woman will view a display of emotion like this for what it is, a rare one off occurance, but a good one will stand by you as you work things out. Just don't expect her to fix your shit or be your one to lean on and you will be off on the right foot every time. Even a rock has feelings from time to time...

      [–]imabadasstrustme 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      This is so completely accurate. Like you said its a little nuanced. You should always give up on trying and give up once you've lost your frame, but that's not to say that she can't fall back into your frame. For example, one girl I dated freshmen year in college dumped me. I chased her for almost a month 'trying to get her back'. After I found out she was fucking other guys that whole month I was disgusted, cut all ties with her and moved on to new girls and made new friends. Then 3 weeks later she reaches out and wants to get back together. She says: "You changed so much since we broke up!" Lol how much could I change in a month? She was super into me and wanted to get back together. I slept with her for a week or so but was so disgusted with her and over her that I dumped her ass pretty quickly. But this made her want me even more! She ended up drunk texting me, then coming to my frat house crying, begging my brothers to "let her see her boyfriend" while I hooked up with another girl upstairs, mind you this is the same girl that wouldn't so much as get on the phone with me 3 weeks ago! So yeah you can regain your frame, but only if you have moved on and don't give a fuck (and you can't fake it). This is just one example and way before I knew about frame, and (just like you mentioned in the post) I made the mistake again and again after this before learning my lesson.

      [–][deleted]  (13 children)

      [deleted]

      [–]1jb_trp 11 points12 points  (2 children)

      Right? This post and all of its upvotes are just evidence that this sub is slowly becoming a parody of itself.

      So many people on this sub walk around talking about how they now have become, "Chad, destroyer of worlds," and don't even get that there's no such thing as an "alpha" or a "beta," these are just shorthand for an ideal man vs an emasculated, weak male. The truth is that we're all a mix of "alpha" and "beta" and these indicators and how they're expressed can change over time.

      I worry that people on this sub will take these concepts too far, without understanding all the nuances of sex/relationships/women/etc. The worst thing that could happen for a man would be to become a parody of someone who read TRP.

      Edit: Grammar/words

      [–]Renzotl56[S] 9 points10 points  (6 children)

      This has nothing to do with anything you just said. I don't care about help or alphaness.

      If you lose frame completely with a female she will drop you. What's hard to understand about that.

      [–]theoracleofbromaha 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Seriously, this is not red pill theory. OP needs to change this shit.

      [–]Senior Contributordr_warlock 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      Then you've never met me. OG Alpha here.

      [–]Cheddarwurst 0 points1 point  (3 children)

      This sub is fascinating, like, just for the jargon even.

      [–]SovereignSoul76 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Oh, don't be such an OTJUGKILNDR

      [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Ikr. Had to google a few things I had no clue about.

      [–]smyger 1 point2 points  (2 children)

      Yeah what do you see as losing frame? You mean you wanting to do one thing more badly and she rejects it or what? Really want to know

      [–]doctorsugar1 10 points11 points  (1 child)

      Lemme help out. He probably meant that once she stops feeling you, it's over. A good example for this would be something like say - you smashed her yesterday and both of you enjoyed it. She calls you the next morning and starts talking about how she feels bad about having sex with you. You respond by apologizing to her about what happened... She be like naaaaghhh! . My Bro, you just screwed up by apologizing.

      [–]thesmithofwords 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      I beg to differ, if your frame loss wasn't devastating (it usually is but bear with me) there is still a chance. Wait at least a month with ZERO contact, that means no liking her pics on any social media, complete radio silence. If she messages you in this time (once she realizes you aren't orbiting), then you're home free. I have had girls shit test me hard during this period, one girl would wait until I was online on facebook and update her profile pic, it happened 4 times, too many to be a coincidence. I'd log on and shed have a new pic 5 seconds later. She was baiting me trying to get me to like it or acknowledge her (i used to orbit her hard before i found this community). I kept up my silence, she sent me a text this morning after not talking for ~6 weeks.

      If she doesn't initiate, you can send a text, just a simple "hey, how have you been" and gauge her reaction,and either escalate or leave.

      [–]Bloody_Rayne 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      Can you give a specific example about losing in such a way?

      [–]Renzotl56[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      You get needy, clingy etc. You basically make her lose attraction for you. You go from being the prize to make her the prize.

      [–]FuckMichaelMcCoy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      What would you consider losing frame? I mean, we say this all the time but what are definite examples of it?

      [–]BeBeBeaverBros 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      What is breaking frame? When she thinks, after a first date, I'm not interesting enough for her or something like that?

      [–]BigThickLongAndHard 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Can you give an example on how you lost frame?

      [–]victordmor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Thanks, brother, as your words enlightened me. I fucked up yesterday with some chick and definitely needed these words.

      [–]Austonmatthews345 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      I don't understand the context in which you're using the word "frame". Mark Manson says it's ok to be vulnerable. How can you make yourself vulnerable without breaking frame?

      [–]JohnnyOmm55 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      if you fuck up, what methods of getting back frame from a girl you used to fuck, do you use Regardless of how much effort it takes? People are saying its hard and not worth it, but let's say it is worth it, how do you reapproach them?

      [–]nochedetoro -3 points-2 points  (16 children)

      ...what does “lose frame” mean?

      [–]redpect 10 points11 points  (14 children)

      deleted What is this?

      [–][deleted]  (13 children)

      [removed]

        [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (7 children)

        The explanation is longer than 7 words, dude.

        No wonder everyone thinks you're a weak pussy, you can't do anything yourself.

        [–]destraht 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        Yeah this is why I started lurking here instead of the conspiracy subreddit. About half of the same stuff (the better stuff) eventually comes up here as in that subreddit but just over a longer time period. Here pussies get found out.

        I'm fairly sure that I would have just thought "Damn, there is a sidebar" instead of being an entitled bitch about it.

        [–]Endorsed Contributorex_addict_bro 1 point2 points  (4 children)

        Stupid cunts like you have no place here. Comment reported.

        [–]nochedetoro 0 points1 point  (3 children)

        Oh no, do I have to go to bed without supper too?

        [–]ttkkk 2 points3 points  (2 children)

        Without pussy probably, haha

        [–]nochedetoro 0 points1 point  (1 child)

        As a woman married to a man this statement is 100% accurate. Although our cat does sleep in bed with us sometimes but contextually I don’t think that’s the pussy you’re referring to.

        [–]hodltaco -1 points0 points  (0 children)

        Agreed. You can't rebuild frame without coming off angry.

        [–]Lambdal7 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

        Completely disagree.

        I give up my frame often for fun. Tell her "yes master", "as you wish", I apologize, I let her decide what to do.

        If you desperately try to keep frame everytime, she'll quickly see your insecurity to lose frame.

        You gotta be flexible with you frame, fluid.

        [–]Nalirot -1 points0 points  (0 children)

        I second this. At first your Alpha AF with the girl etc, then she starts shittesting you, all is fine etc, u pass em like nothing. But then one day u slip, u get tired/weak etc and she gains more and more power.

        All of a sudden the swallowing/blowjobs etc stops, shes not as intrigued and yeah, u lost the frame, aka, u lost the girl.

        Then u can go on and off with her trying to get "in frame" again, but ur really stuck most of the tiem as shes seen "through" you so to speak. Deep shit but really true. Only applies for non-LTR though, imo.