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LTR'We Need to Talk' and other ways of controlling the flow of information for power. (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by Modredpillschool

"We Need to Talk." It's a form of controlling the flow of information in an attempt at holding the cards in a conversation or relationship.

It's putting somebody on standby letting them know that there's something serious that needs to be said, and lets them dangle for a while until it is said. What could it be? Is something wrong? Is it bad news? Is it good news? Why the suspense?

Well, I'm not fond of somebody else taking control in interactions, and it's a bad habit to allow others to do so with yours. So I suggest a simple rule that will improve your frame and your personal relationships considerably:

Reject any attempt to dole out tidbits of information, reject any attempt at others controlling the flow of information, and refuse any further attempts after a failed attempt.

Some examples of a party controlling the flow of information:

  • When a girl says she's "fine" or that "nothing's" wrong. She expects you to plead for information. Instead, say "okay" and walk away.

  • When anybody says "we need to talk" and expects the conversation to take place in the future, respond with "if you have something to say, say it now." If they say it "needs to be in person" or they "need time to sit down and really talk about it," just tell them that you're not interested in playing games and if they felt the need to go out of their way to alert you that they needed to talk, they'd go ahead and say it, or forever hold their peace. If, in the future, they try to broach the subject again, shut it down and tell them that you do not tolerate drama and suspense building as a form of communication, and that their communication with you needs to be purposeful or not at all.

  • Any time somebody says "don't worry about it" they are either trying to sweep something under the rug (such as a transgression they made against you), or control the flow of information to you. Act accordingly- Explain that conflict and arguments should come to a natural resolution and not be artificially dismissed, and that you take it as a sign of disrespect. Or, if they are attempting to control the flow of information, you simply say "okay" and walk away. Do not allow them the control of getting you to plead for tidbits of information.

Inevitably these tips will help in all interpersonal relationships, but anybody looking specifically into LTR game will eventually need to pick up on this- as a relationship is a battle of power and power will be usurped from you in any way possible when you are not looking.


[–][deleted] 198 points199 points  (22 children)

Also be aware of women weaponizing emotions. I'm sure others have experienced this pattern: You do something to make your girl angry and now you have to console her. Your girl something to make you angry and you being angry makes her angry so now you have to console her.

[–]DeltaRecon2552 64 points65 points  (0 children)

Easy way around this is to just ignore it. The hamster will commence spinning very soon.

[–]notrustled 33 points34 points  (11 children)

All women do that - my mom constantly does that shit, too. I simply can't even attempt to give a fuck anymore about it though.

[–]Jojobelle 38 points39 points  (9 children)

my girl does some stuff to try and tick me off, when i brush it off she says " arent you angry" cant you a least be a little angry" hahaha turn those emotions off im not letting you have any drama . you know what you did wrong , suffer in silence :)

[–]Gawernator 7 points8 points  (4 children)

Lmao that's funny, because I had a coworker that turned out to be super weird, he asked these same types of questions and acted like a female overall. It was so bizarre

[–]Dustin_Bromain 11 points12 points  (3 children)

I've met so many men like that. I've even met MEN who believe that their feelings are facts. It's insane. They have the anatomy of a man with the mind of a woman. What a tortured existence that must be.

[–]Gawernator 1 point2 points  (2 children)

He acted jealous of me hanging out with my GF... Wrote me a weird emotional letter. Cried a lot and shit. Not sure if he was closet gay.

[–]Dustin_Bromain 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Absurd that a man could willingly reduce himself to that level.

[–]Gawernator 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It was pretty sickening. On top of that, I think he may have developed Borderline Personality Disorder.

[–]Dustin_Bromain 2 points3 points  (1 child)

It's almost as if they get some weird sort of satisfaction from the fact that they can manipulate you enough to make you angry; or emotional in some way. They love the stoic alpha man but then get annoyed with themselves when they can't break him down. It makes no fucking sense.

[–]1TheReindeerGuy 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I've read on this sub before that the opposite of love is indifference. From this I conclude it works like this: if you remain indifferent to the actions of a woman they don't feel loved or receive validation. If you become angry at them for things they did you are no longer indifferent and thus you show them that they matter to you which gives them the validation they need.

[–]thor_away92 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If your girl was my girl she'd get the boot.

[–]tallwheel 10 points11 points  (1 child)

You don't even necessarily have to do anything. Sometimes she's just decided that she wants to feel in control and get a reaction from you, so she suddenly turns angry or cold.

The only way to win is to not let her mood effect you. If we're out together, and I've already decided I'm out to have a good time, I will continue enjoying myself while she sulks. Nothing pisses her off more than seeing she can't control your emotions. [edit: But after it momentarily pisses her off, she will learn over time not to try to terrorize you with emotions.]

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (5 children)

I had a revelation last night. If your thought process ever goes "What can I do to (make/get/convince) [Other Person] to {make a change in their behavior or thought process}?, then that, my friends, is what we call "losing frame".

Your thought should always be "What can I do to express how I (feel/think/desire) in this situation?" Don't allow the other person to set the narrative frame for the discussion or are already fighting a losing battle.

Example: My plate was making a play to transition into an exclusive LTR. I will admit I had gotten a little attached and I had started neglecting my other prospects, to the point I really didn't have any at the moment. She explained how she used to be comfortable with us both not being exclusive until it "just hit her" that she was jealous of these other women that got to take my time away from her. She was being very genuine and vulnerable in a way that was very unusual for her, and it caught me off guard. Instead of sticking to my guns, I starting thinking of things to say and do to make her feel like I valued her. And that was the beginning of the end. Shit will creep up on you when you least expect it.

[–]Reddened 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Yeah I remember reading something similar to this from David Deangelo (I don't know what TRP's opinion is on him but I've found some TRP truths in his stuff).

Anyway he was talking to some PUA in an interview. He said if you initially tell a girl you don't want anything serious, she might agree at first but then later say she wants an exclusive relationship; if you agree she'll actually lose respect and attraction for you.

However if you stick to your guns and say something like "no this was what we agreed on in the first place, I like what we have going", it maintains the attraction and gives you the chance to later take the lead in initiating a LTR which will be better received.

Unrelated: I forgot this is a hella old post before commenting.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Ha ha that's very true. I told that to my last semi-serious LTR that I wasn't ever going to be monogamous again until I was ready to get married (which is never, but she didn't need to know that). Huge fight, I left really pissed.

The next time we met she apologized and said that she was overreacting and gave me one of the best bjs ever. Dread works like a charm.

[–]Reddened 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Haha that's awesome. So wait it was an LTR but you told her you weren't going to be monogamous? Wouldn't that be a plate? Or is the distinction that it was an LTR for her but non-LTR for you? I'm intrigued.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It was more I wanted it to be a LTR at first but then changed my mind before we got to the "DTR" conversation. So I had been behaving like a standard LTR (we were spending the night at each others apts like 3-4 nights a week, etc.), but then told her I was still going to date other people.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It was a LTR (we saw each other 4-5 times a week) where I had the option to not be monogamous and she did not (or at least, she knew that would be the end of our relationship.)

[–]PM_Me_Yo_Tits_Grrl 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Hm.

I've not had that happen except when I was angry about something stupid and took it too far, but I'll be on the lookout. Cool.

[–]prodigy2throw 82 points83 points  (21 children)

Calling people out on "we need to talk" also seems to force the person into making a snap judgement on whether the problem is really that important. It also catches them off guard and makes them look ridiculous when they don't have time to rehearse their argument.

[–]coffee_and_lumber 69 points70 points  (11 children)

when they don't have time to rehearse their argument.

Quite often, I've found that these confrontations are just her regurgitating all the nonsense her friends have put in her head. You can tell because she'll have uncharacteristic boldness and the delivery almost sounds like someone poorly acting out a script or reading a speech.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 35 points36 points  (1 child)

The gaggle of crabs in the basket will always whisper into her ear. They will never be your friend.

[–]bigthrowaway23 25 points26 points  (0 children)

This place continues to impress me. My gf tried to confront me over some stupid social media shit and when she started talking it was exactly like you just described.

Nice to have someone's insight, thanks.

[–]2wiseclockcounter 20 points21 points  (3 children)

dude... to a T. for me it was accompanied with really formal posture and hand placement. like sitting up straight with hands crossed on her lap. She gave me some 3 day ultimatum to prove my love or some shit, because that makes sense.

[–]Dustin_Bromain 9 points10 points  (1 child)

What ended up happening in that situation?

[–]thor_away92 13 points14 points  (0 children)

3 minutes to pack his shit and leave

[–]Geleemann 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Wow. Please tell me you aren't with that child anymore?

[–]Hoodwink 8 points9 points  (3 children)

I have seen 8 year old girls practice making speeches after getting mad at their imaginary husbands/boyfriends.

Women seem to rehearse these things when the boys are playing war hero.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

It's a game.

Technically its a game played by her Parent Ego state if you want to follow the work of Eric Berne.

Effectively your Parent Ego state is learned behavior from your parents.

Her mother did this to her father or to her brother and she emulates it and it develops into part of her parent ego state.

While she is "practicing" this it is merely mimicry much like when a child initially goes through a NO NO NO stage or Because Because Because.

Part of the reason why women with "good upbringing" shit test less dramatically or often is largely because it is not part of the default behavior. She did not witness it as a child so it did not develop until she started to develop her adult ego state.

Where as women who come from broken homes witness it and adapt it in the parental ego state and re-enforce it in the adult ego state.

It's learned behavior coupled with natural female development resulting in extra shit tests.

Hence why broken homes or single mother upbringings are Red Flags.

[–]rpscrote 0 points1 point  (1 child)

thats fucked up to the extreme

[–]Hoodwink 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It was cute.

It wasn't malicious, but in the grand scheme of things it made a lot of sense.

[–][deleted] 57 points58 points  (8 children)

imo it just makes you look needy and cements your place as the lower in the relationship (at least in the interaction).

It shows that you are worried and care about what they have to say, almost always when someone says "we need to talk" they expect a question back.

if you just say "ok" and have no fucks given, it turns the tables.

"wait... why didn't he wonder what it was?... does he really not care about what we have? is he actually planning to BREAK UP with me?!?! does he already know what i want to say??????"

in all those situations, "we need to talk" to "dont worry about it" to "im fine", all you have to do is respond "ok cool". the person obviously wants to say more, but now you ended the discussion. They'll try to desperately bring it up again, and then you have the full control over whether it's something you want to talk about or "i thought you were fine? let it go"

the person who always wins in the relationship is the one who cares less, so be that person. dont just pretend it, but actually dont care what they have to bring up. then they will go out of their way to try to make you WANT to care

[–][deleted]  (2 children)

[deleted]

    [–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (1 child)

    yeah for sure

    sometimes they'll try to wait you out, thinking that you are worried (and they are worried that maybe you're not worried), and sometimes the guy will be like ".... what did you want to talk about that time?"

    if you never bring it up though, they have to worry for a loooong time

    [–][deleted] 16 points17 points  (3 children)

    Or flip the script.

    "We need to talk"

    "Ok, let's talk"

    "no, not now blah blah.."

    "Why would you bring it up if you weren't ready to talk? I'm talking, you're talking, so lets talk or don't waste my time."

    [–]TheRealMewt 9 points10 points  (2 children)

    My go-to response for anyone who tries to put off "the talk" is "Nice chat."

    [–]rpscrote 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    "good talk champ" or "cool story bro" if i want to be particularly dismissive

    [–]the99percent1 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Nope.. much prefer "we need to talk" - respond with, "if you have something to say, say it now or forever hold your Fucking peace"

    [–]Endorsed ContributorMentORPHEUS 115 points116 points  (17 children)

    "We need to talk" when run through Redpill Translate comes out as, "You need to LISTEN."

    This is NOT to say that you should shut down the other party when they express a need to communicate- just be aware of timing and anticipation being used as underhanded power plays, in an attempt to undermine your frame.

    In a LTR, a man should be owning his shit and preventing unspoken resentments and imbalances from building to an inflection point such as this. A bona-fide comfort test is just as surely failed by being too harsh and shutting it down permanently as it is by breaking frame and supplicating to her demands. The best control of such incidents is not in the moment they become a crisis, but by your good ongoing day to day stewardship and maintenance of the relationship.

    For an expendable plate, or new relationship where she's testing your mettle, this type of power play is best stopped cold in its tracks. For longer-term relationships of consequence, good setup and maintenance of the relationship power structure makes such tests less likely to occur, and makes pivoting away from the attack and rebalancing much easier for both parties.

    [–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (2 children)

    Exactly. "we need to talk" == Let me get you worked up about all of the possible ways you might have fucked up, so that you come into this conversation frustrated and clueless.

    If we're gonna have a debate, I need to know how to prepare for such event, so lets at least get the topics we will be talking about, or better yet, lets just both talk while we are both unprepared, especially over phone or text, as then we I cannot be swayed with body language or emotional cues.

    "need time to sit down and really talk about it,"

    Cue for, 'I'm probably gonna cry and/or make you feel awful about it with emotional manipulation'

    [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    all of the possible ways you might have fucked up

    or to try to get you to admit to something she doesn't even know about but wants to guilt you into admitting.

    [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Yup.

    Her:"We need to talk"

    Me:"About what?"

    Her:"You know exactly what, asshole!"

    Me:"bitch, please, how dare you!"

    [–]Modredpillschool[S] 35 points36 points  (12 children)

    For longer-term relationships of consequence, good setup and maintenance of the relationship power structure makes such tests less likely to occur, and makes pivoting away from the attack and rebalancing much easier for both parties.

    And the best way to do it is to shut them down when they start, so they don't learn a bad habit.

    [–][deleted] 28 points29 points  (10 children)

    Well, I think you're missing two things.

    If there's actually a problem, you also need to know what that is, so if you nuke her for her approach you might not get there.

    You also need to guide her towards how she should be communicating problems in the future - you can't do that by just shutting down the bad ways. Again, assume she has the naivete of a child, she's just not going to tell you anything next time.

    So yes, it needs to be addressed, but.

    I would say the best way is to take her somewhere private immediately, because I think that's what is actually meant.

    [–][deleted]  (8 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]Modredpillschool[S] 8 points9 points  (1 child)

      "I do not tolerate drama and suspense building as a form of communication".. it just comes across as utterly reeking of autism.

      Funny you should accuse me of autism..

      For all you know they could be telling you they have cancer.

      While simultaneously missing the point entirely by being pedantic.

      [–]rpscrote 2 points3 points  (1 child)

      bro, read some basic "dont be a retard given the social context" into it. This is implied in every post. It doesn't need to be reiterated (well, maybe for you it does).

      It's simple, if its cancer she wouldn't approach it like this. If she tells you she was going to tell you she had cancer, it's a line and you'd be dumb to fall for it.

      If you are actually telling someone you have cancer, you don't do it this way.

      [–]Endorsed ContributorBluepillProfessor 0 points1 point  (2 children)

      He wrote a post on the topic, not a book. How much nuance can you provide?

      I like your exception and you should give her her a chance to tell you about her cancer before you shut it down but that is not likely to be the topic of the we need to talk you need to shut the fuck up and listen to the inane complaint I have about how you treated my sister last week "talk."

      [–][deleted]  (1 child)

      [deleted]

        [–]Modredpillschool[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

        There are reasonable justifications for two adults without an agenda to have a conversation in another place or another time.

        Yes, and that conversation can take place at another time and place, not start in public.

        You're being dense.

        [–]verify_account 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Exactly, when somebody wants to hold a private conversation OP is responding "I do not tolerate drama and suspense building as a form of communication".. it just comes across as utterly reeking of autism

        You completely missed the point of the entire post. Read it again, then post.

        [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        If it's a problem, you'd be aware of it.

        if you're too obtuse to see one coming, then thats the issue, not whatever bullshit you're being told

        [–]DarkMeds 12 points13 points  (0 children)

        My "we need to talk" defense never fails.

        Girl : We need to talk

        Me : (confused look) Who's we?

        Girl : You know..... .. Us...

        Me: Oh, I see. You'd like to talk to me about something?

        Girl : Yes.

        Me: Go ahead, I'm listening.

        Control is passed back to the target because her authority to automatically gain audience is revoked.

        It's one of my masterpieces. LoL.

        [–]Turkerthelurker 46 points47 points  (13 children)

        When anybody says "we need to talk" and expects the conversation to take place in the future, respond with "if you have something to say, say it now." If they say it "needs to be in person" or they "need time to sit down and really talk about it," just tell them that you're not interested in playing games and if they felt the need to go out of their way to alert you that they needed to talk, they'd go ahead and say it, or forever hold their peace.

        One caveat to this: If it is actually a serious topic of conversation, or about you and a plate/LTR's relationship DO NOT TEXT ABOUT IT.

        She will show that shit to her friends and get everyone of their and their cats' opinions on it. They will dissect your words, and all context and intended meaning will get lost. She will hear your words through her various friends interpretation of your words. She will look at that shit months from now, and get angry/emotional/sad all over again. She will point to that conversation as a reason to misbehave in the future.

        Maintaining plausible deniability is a strong position to be in, as well. As such, DON'T FUCKING TEXT SERIOUS CONVERSATIONS.

        Edit: Bolded for added emphasis.

        [–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor 25 points26 points  (2 children)

        Maintaining plausible deniability is a strong position to be in, as well. As such, DON'T FUCKING TEXT SERIOUS CONVERSATIONS.

        Oh dear god, NEVER do this. All women become linguistic experts able to mold your words into the most offensive meaning possible, just so they can tell all their friends how much of an asshole you are.

        ... though I guess that could have an upside too.

        [–]1Starswarm 4 points5 points  (1 child)

        I've struggled with this problem rather often in my past. I enjoy communicating and as a result I often engage too much. If your relationship is in a bad way or not red pill enough that arguments are occurring frequently, when you text too much you're just rolling the dice faster on the next sentence that will be blown up into a fight.

        It's also important to note that you are never ever going to fix someone's problem through a text message, especially if they haven't asked for your help.

        Seriously entering problem solving mode when your woman is venting will just turn their negativity in your direction. Everything is going peachy, then suddenly you've said the wrong thing about them or their day and now you've turned this amorphous negative emotionality (stress) she has developed from a "Mhm yes babe. That sucks, she's a bitch" to "No honey I didn't say your stupid" etc.

        [–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        All very true. Allow me to add some decoration to the discussion. You don't even need to be in a relationship with a woman to have this be a problem. More than once I have had HR up in my ass because on of my employees was "too helpful" to another female employee. The hamster will turn simple collaboration into some sort of overt sexual harassment at warp speed. In a relationship, it's an opportunity to unleash a salvo of shit tests. In the workplace, it's an opportunity for them to fight the patriarchy.

        [–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (1 child)

        DON'T FUCKING TEXT SERIOUS CONVERSATIONS.

        Don't text any conversation. Texts are for coordinating an setting up meetings, or potentially for making fun of her. Conversations are done by conversing, i.e. talking.

        [–]dissentforall 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        I always abided by this rule, long before I found out about TRP or guys like Patrice O'Neal. Text is emotionally flat form of communication and too much can be lost or misinterpreted, both intentionally and unintentionally.

        That being said, if an LTR is going crazy via text, screenshot it because it's damn near guaranteed she will contradict herself in the near future.

        [–]Thizzlebot 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Very good point. You should never text anything to someone that you wouldn't want the public to read because it could be used against you. In person everything is fair game lol.

        [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children)

        If it's important, it's face to face important

        [–]Modredpillschool[S] 9 points10 points  (1 child)

        As long as you don't announce it to me earlier in the day "we need to talk later."

        No, we fucking don't.

        [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        Lol. I've had that. It's kind of fun to delay it.

        [–]peterforallmankind 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        This is a key point that cannot be understated. Communication takes different forms (non-verbal, i.e. body language or status signaling, written, i.e. essays, texts, and emails, and verbal, talking, either directly or via the phone and now skype). Each form is useful for communicating certain ideas, plans, concepts, emotions, etc. Never, never, never try to force a type of "conversation" through the wrong communication method.

        Texts should be light and playful - generally limited to one or two lines at most. If one is extra witty and dealing with an equal, a few extra lines don't hurt to make a joke: practice pointer, generally only use this lengthy text with a woman who texts in full sentences only - if you get LOLs, poor grammar, etc. do not do it. Keep it light and sweet and minimal.

        All real conversations should be face to face. Keep your frame: if they insist you discuss it, tell them it is too important a subject to be done over text/email/the phone, and remind them that a mature adult would be able to wait to discuss such matters.

        As an aside, I have waited YEARS to have some conversations with men; women's insistence that it must be now shows an immediacy that indicates their nature as the oldest teenager in the house.

        [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        BEST ADVICE I HAVE EVER FUKING HEARD

        [–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (3 children)

        "we need to talk"

        No, you need to talk. Who is this we?

        Whenever people use phrases like "we" they always mean "me" or "I", so it's irrelevant horseshit anyway. They make it seem like it is a discussion when really it is them telling you something.

        Other examples of this annoying habit are words like "I think", "I believe", and "In my opinion", all of these things are quite obvious when you start talking. There's absolutely no reason to say them unless you think you're wrong. You think something? No, you know something. Get these words out of your vocabulary, they're bullshit words and phrases, "We" is one of the worst offenders though.

        [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (2 children)

        I hate "I believe," "you know..." and "the thing is," statements. Effing drives me up the effing wall!

        [–]opening_eyes 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        I feel like maybe it could be, I guess.

        [–]Senior Endorsed ContributorCopperFox3c 33 points34 points  (31 children)

        As has often been said on here: LTRs are TRP on hard mode.

        Your frame needs to iron tight. And it is subtle things like this - responding artfully to covert tests like "we need to talk" - that signal an iron tight frame. It is one thing to laugh at somebody's dramatizing whom you barely know ... it is an entirely different thing to skillfully outmaneuver someone who knows you well. It is the difference between beginner Amused Mastery and the expert version.

        Fake it till you make it, of course. But at some point you must truly internalize the Pill. LTR's are like being in a room full of a thousand mirrors, every angle exposed. There are no imposters in a land of 1000 mirrors, someone will see beneath the facade.

        [–]Dustin_Bromain 13 points14 points  (28 children)

        This is unfortunately what I'm currently going through.. My new LTR has picked up on how I respond to certain shit-tests/comfort tests and is no longer accepting those answers as acceptable ones. She has also decided to devote an immense amount of time and effort into figuring out my personality quirks and calling me out on them when I act in a predictable way. She's a crafty bitch. I think what I need to do is act a little more unpredictably and play some dread game. Got any suggestions?

        [–]Senior Endorsed ContributorCopperFox3c 17 points18 points  (23 children)

        You need to "flip it". I assume you are familiar with rapport breaks when gaming/picking up new chicks ... flipping is the same thing, just as a long-term play, rather than short-term. When situations like that arise, you need to begin to oscillate your emotions and moods, as you say be unpredictable. Even to the point of walking away and creating some distance. You are "flipping" the tension onto her.

        The goal is the same as a normal rapport break, by creating uncertainty in her about your feelings, you compel her to qualify herself. That's the dynamic you want ... remember a woman's love flows upward, not downward.

        It's a very natural dynamic, and one you will both be happier for.

        [–]icecow 8 points9 points  (19 children)

        remember a woman's love flows upward, not downward.

        What does that part mean

        [–]Modredpillschool[S] 24 points25 points  (17 children)

        She won't love you if she sees you as a lesser- only if she sees you as a superior.

        [–][deleted]  (16 children)

        [deleted]

          [–][deleted]  (8 children)

          [removed]

            [–]Dustin_Bromain 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            Lolololol. Or better yet, a fish.

            [–]haxurmind 3 points4 points  (5 children)

            How in the world would you explain this to a feminist?

            Same way as RPS just did.

            As stated before in TRP, the heirarchy of gwarp (love) is linear.

            Men -> Women -> Children -> Puppies

            It is not our job to soften the edges off to appease the loud children (teenagers/feminists) in the room, just as I don't have the right to censor from everyone else things that offend me.

            rant/example:

            A recent Australian local paper has again sprouted about violence against women, the irritating enough to mention it issue I have is the full cover page feature about it (white ribbon, misleading stats and all)... printed in the one month per year [Movember] we get to acknowledge men's issues.

            But meh, I'll suck it up (Law 38) and do my own thing since complaining about it to those responsible for printing such would ignore my rant in favor of the 'women are wonderful' effect.

            A ban on pro women rubbish for one month per year, November, would be a welcome change, if not 6 months per year which would be equal. But when you learn to watch what women do (as opposed to what they say) the truth is impossible to ignore about how feminists in general define 'equality'.

            /rant

            TL/DR re-post

            She won't love you if she sees you as a lesser- only if she sees you as a superior.

            [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            I always want to put dogs back the men, like a circle.

            my boys are assholes to the SO, but to me, they are happy as fuck when I come home, in a way no one else can do for them

            [–][deleted]  (3 children)

            [deleted]

              [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

              your questions premise is wrong, and instead of protecting your ego, you would do best to try to understand why, and not be mad that the world isn't bending to your wishes

              [–]haxurmind 1 point2 points  (1 child)

              I love how I was downvoted for asking a serious question hoping to gain insight into dealing with feminists.

              The down votes would be from those disagreeing with the idea of arguing with a feminist, a just opinion though such could be better communicated.

              Don't pay them too much attention unless your on 50+ negatives (I had -2 on that other comment yesterday shrug ) and have a chain of endorsed TRP users telling you your wrong and why.

              I think /u/stonepimpletilists covered it well, teach yourself to shut off that I must win/vanquish/dominate ego and not bother to argue the matter with them.

              So how do I treat feminists?

              Offline: Law 38 but not as an active advocate. Avoid if possible, steer conversation away from feminism/etc if possible. Ignore if all else fails (smartphones/tablets make this much easier today). Basically treat them like a ticking time bomb (handle with care, do not attempt to disarm, get out of range asap).

              Online: Smile and nod with relief as I click the mighty x button and weed out whichever site thought it was worthwhile reading, sans TRP. I'll scrub the temp files later with CCleaner and let browser add-ons (ghostery etc.) take care of the rest.

              In short, there is no shame in walking away. Just as there is no shame when you next, or next-ed by, a girl while playing the game.

              Thanks for your reply

              Your welcome.

              [–]Zagiggity 3 points4 points  (0 children)

              Search the "Captain/First Mate" dynamic in addition to RPSchool's post.

              [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

              Can you give examples of this? Very interesting stuff

              [–]truchisoft 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              This is what I do, once she slipped that she knew that for example if on a Friday night I didn't initiate texting, that meant that I was at my friend's house, I started texting her randomly on Fridays, even if I was with my friend, or not texting her on Fridays, even if I was alone at home.
              Keep it random, lest they get comfortable.

              [–]Dustin_Bromain 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              Ahhh.... Interesting. Thanks for the feedback, can't wait to apply it in the field.

              [–]enfier 1 point2 points  (1 child)

              Well then, she's entirely in your frame isn't she? Play with it. If the whole thing is predictable, then just flip the script and use her next response as your reply.

              Read the book When I Say No I Feel Guilty and you'll be unstoppable.

              For instance -

              Fogging - "I suppose it's not a very good answer."

              Negative Inquiry - "What about my answer do find unacceptable?"

              http://www.executivepsychology.com/workpsychology/2011/08/assertiveness-3-verbal-coping-skills/

              [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              it's nota bad thing. Everyone seems to think you need to be working magic.

              it's OK if she knows what you're doing, she should also know the conequecnes, and act accordingly.

              it's the difference between talking, and acting. thats why that eyebrow raise gets the point across, becuase she knows exactly what you are going to do, and cant manipulate through it

              [–]Endorsed Contributorvandaalen 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              it is an entirely different thing to skillfully outmaneuver someone who knows you well.

              Dante Nero and his advice to consistently stay inconsistent in an LTR comes to mind

              [–]Ferguson_Curly 5 points6 points  (0 children)

              I think both parties get better as time moves on. However in my experience I am a good cold reader and girls get MUCH easier to deal with their tests the more time we spend together.

              Patrice O'Neal used the karate master analogy. She gets better from your training and she tries to 'beat the champ' and you just have to flip her to keep the dynamic.

              The more time I spend with a girl, the more I know about her buttons and triggers and motivations. I can conceal my intentions much easier just by being a better reader of her. They are predictable, especially when emotional.

              I have found it much more difficult to control frame with a new girl, because I don't have the same knowledge to use only my cold reads.

              [–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 17 points18 points  (3 children)

              Don't talk things through with women at all. She's trying to control the relationship through presenting her side and then controlling yours (usually with irrational emotion and entitlement) and you can guarantee that the end result she intends is what she wants, and not what you want.

              As has been said enough times here: arguing with a woman is like playing chess with a pigeon: no matter how well you play the pigeon just knocks over the pieces and shits on the board.

              If you have to listen to what she says then fine, but don't enter into any sort of discussion about it. Don't respond. Don't get riled up. Anything you say will be used against you in the future, and anything she says will be bullshit and smokescreens anyway. Best to just listen patiently to it all, and then get up and walk away. Agreeing or arguing the point will just strengthen her position.

              "We need to talk" is power talk for "I have power over you and I am about to use it to get something that I want", whether that be dumping you or trying to get commitment or something else from you.

              Preempt this shit by:

              • Always being prepared to walk away
              • Always having other options
              • Running dread game whether you need to or not
              • Maintaining a healthy amount of indifference (how you do this depends on you, but should be some combination of other social life, other women [options at least], other lifestyle, nothing she can destroy)

              In other words - she's powerless to negatively affect your life. This is power, control and options. Women are drawn to this, and it's the thing that ironically enough will motivate her to want to stick around. And if it doesn't.... well, you got other options.

              [–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 15 points16 points  (1 child)

              PS ... the end result of you winning an argument with a woman is that nothing at all will change.

              Even if she nods and agrees with every god damned thing you say, it won't make any difference.

              Regardless of her word, her promises, your status as boyfriend, your status as married, decades of history together and shared social life .... regardless of all these things, she'll just follow her feelings and rationalise it later. Engage with women on the basis of her feelings and actions and motivations. Save contracts and promises and discussions for men who are much more likely to behave honourably.

              [–]Dustin_Bromain 5 points6 points  (0 children)

              Truer words have never been spoken. For two years, I tried to change my ex-girlfriend's mindset and for two years, every single fucking day, I failed, miserably. And I never understood why, and no one could tell me why. Until now.

              [–]plein_old 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              Yes. This whole thread is the best shit I've read in days. Goddamn.

              [–]1favours_of_the_moon 15 points16 points  (0 children)

              "We NEED to get my dick sucked."

              [–]Senior Contributor: "The Court Jester"GayLubeOil 22 points23 points  (9 children)

              Every person has an idiolect basically a unique personal speach pattern. The fascinating thing about "We Need to Talk" or the now infamous " I'm a strong independent woman", is that those phrases don't match women's typical speach pattern.

              "We need to talk" is a comand/demand. It's on par with "You need to give me the milk". It is out of character for women to speak in such a direct fasion.

              When a woman uses that phrase it is because she has imported it from feminist media. Any conversation that follows " We Need to Talk" will not be her own synthesis, but a reconstitution of what sucked up from the media without real introspection or analysis.

              [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              Wow, excellent insight. I like the way you're thinking.

              [–][deleted]  (15 children)

              [deleted]

              [–][deleted] 19 points20 points  (0 children)

              ...and of course she did it on guys' night. She knew exactly what she was doing.

              [–]Modredpillschool[S] 16 points17 points  (12 children)

              Like, I'm very pragmatic and probably OCD about things, so when there's a problem to solve, my mind often becomes preoccupied. Fuck her for suggesting "we need to talk" before guys night- she knows it'll linger while you're trying to enjoy yourself.

              That's why you need to have a zero tolerance policy on that.

              [–][deleted]  (7 children)

              [removed]

                [–]Dustin_Bromain 6 points7 points  (6 children)

                That sucks man. Hopefully your future taco nights were more fun.

                [–]systemshock869 2 points3 points  (5 children)

                Haha thanks man, indeed they were. Divorce sucks.

                [–]Dustin_Bromain 1 point2 points  (4 children)

                I couldn't imagine being divorced. I'm only 23. =S

                [–]systemshock869 3 points4 points  (3 children)

                I got married at 24.. I won't flat out say don't do it, but it's so close to don't do it you better take years to make sure you found the closest damn thing to a unicorn that you're ever going to find. Even relatively chaste (AFAIK lol) church girls will leave you high and dry when the tingles wear off, because everything is always your fault.

                [–]Dustin_Bromain 2 points3 points  (2 children)

                24 and married. Incredible. I couldn't even imagine that shit. I can't even fathom marrying 99% of any of the girls in my university. Some of them are so bad I don't even want to plate them. The princess mentality is rampant here.

                [–]systemshock869 2 points3 points  (1 child)

                To be fair I think the ratio of marriageable girls is much higher in certain church settings.. though it's still a gamble as I found out. Don't ignore those red flags; looking back, I ignored a lot of them.

                I've made some friends in the local university's party scene lately and I can't imagine a relationship with any of those bitches. Even the sweet ones are completely and overtly pseudo-intellectual Feminists. Nope.

                [–]Dustin_Bromain 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                You know things are fucked when even the "sweet ones" are mentally backwards.

                [–][deleted]  (2 children)

                [deleted]

                  [–]Modredpillschool[S] 6 points7 points  (1 child)

                  Somebody really hates this conversation.

                  [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  pft. TBP, extrp. 2xx and tumblr have roving gangs who just scour and repost this stuff

                  [–]Senior Contributordr_warlock 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  she knows it'll linger while you're trying to enjoy yourself.

                  Pure selfishness. She can't stand that he's happy outside her presence because it's a reminder that his emotional state is not dependent on her. So she attempts to bring him down to her level. She wants a part her to manifest itself in your mind, weighing down on your thoughts when she's not around to maintain your focus on her. With enough luck, it will prevent you from enjoying yourself and convince you to retrain your focus on her and approach her current 'need' to feed her ego with validation. Bitch.

                  [–]plein_old 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  Wow... thank you for story.

                  [–]soulure 10 points11 points  (0 children)

                  I had a manager that used to use the "we need to talk on Monday" in order to ruin people's weekend vacations. Total assclown. Thanks for these solid communication tools.

                  [–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor 17 points18 points  (5 children)

                  When a girl says she's "fine" or that "nothing's" wrong. She expects you to plead for information. Instead, say "okay" and walk away.

                  The last time I ever argued with my wife ended with me saying, "I now understand that these conversations are supposed to be me being exceptionally vulnerable and you say absolutely nothing about yourself. I'm done." I walked off. That was it. She never pulled that shit with me ever again.

                  Never argue with a woman. You cannot "win." If they need to share, let them share. If you need to tell them something, tell them something. (No, boys, you don't need to tell them you NEED validation because your mommy didn't hug you enough--save that for beer and buddies while hunting.)

                  Arguing with a woman is their version of gutting a fish--they want to empty your contents on the floor so they can pick and choose what they need to eat you alive. DO / NEVER

                  [–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

                  When a girl says she's "fine" or that "nothing's" wrong. She expects you to plead for information. Instead, say "okay" and walk away.

                  I'm happy to say that this at least one RP truth that I learned naturally. They always tend to equate you not playing into their bullshit as you just being too dumb to notice something is actually wrong.

                  It's like they are dying to have you ask "what's wrong my sweety precious bumpkin?" so they can just reply "oh nothing..." and then let the drama begin.

                  It's exactly as the OP described. they want you to get on your knees and BEG them to tell you what's wrong

                  [–]dagadbm 2 points3 points  (2 children)

                  Why would you want to spend the rest of your life with someone you have to constantly be on your toes and you can never rest and just "be yourself" (still swallowing the pill.)

                  [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  It becomes a lot less difficult over time. Essentially, you start to recognize certain patterns more easily later in a relationship. Also, as time goes on, you're training her based on your past responses. The good news is that while you're figuring all this out it's still early days in your relationship when she has new relationship tingles (unless you're slow). Eventually, it becomes pretty damn stress free.

                  That doesn't give you a pass to be anything less than a man though. Part of why it's so stress free is you yourself have also settled into your role. Both parties know what to expect from each other, and so you no longer have to worry about your woman starting fights over petty shit. Often the reason why women do that is because deep down inside they don't respect you, so their dissatisfaction manifests in petty arguments. /u/redpillschool has given some important advice here on controlling flare-ups and limiting bullshit. That in itself will earn you some respect, but remember you can't just rely on your conflict management. You need to give her things about yourself for her to buy into. Think about what your strengths are as a person and let her see those things in you. You'll both be happier.

                  [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  every woman is a reflection of the man she's with. if your woman is a shit tier woman, then it should be a clear indication of the work you haven't done.

                  women are water, men are the container

                  [–]Rasalom72 13 points14 points  (2 children)

                  I don't treat any of those any differently. If you do, you are getting pulled into someone else's frame.

                  If someone says "We need to talk", I just say "Okay... so talk". If they want to put it off, just agree and walk away... I don't waste my time with what they are thinking/ feeling/ want to talk about.

                  If it's that important, then they will want to talk about it right then and there, if not, then it can wait. I'm sure as shit not going to go fishing for information, or care about what ever it was they wanted me for.

                  Besides, most people assume that "We need to talk" is a serious, OMG type of thing. I don't... I sometimes use it as a segway into boring run of the mill converstaions with my wife... like "We need to talk" (serious face)... "What are we having for dinner? Do we have any chicken left?"

                  [–]Physio_Tool 4 points5 points  (1 child)

                  "We need to talk" is a serious, OMG type of thing.

                  It's only serious if you're placing too much value on the girl and the relationship. This sort of thing or much less anything that does not affect your career, your family, or friends should not be enough to suck away your mental energy. Remember, if a girl does not like how things are, she can always leave and you will absolutely under no circumstances chase her or try to convince her otherwise.

                  [–]Rasalom72 5 points6 points  (0 children)

                  That's what I was saying.... I don't get why people think that "we need to talk" is serious in any setting. You LTR/SO/Wife comes up and says "We Need to Talk", or your boss comes over to your desk and says "We Need to Talk"... whatever, talk.

                  It's just words... and I know that whatever you say won't affect me regardless of what it is...so fucking talk, and skip the "we need to talk" crap.

                  [–]Senior Contributordr_warlock 13 points14 points  (0 children)

                  Let's talk = "I'm losing attraction/I already lost attraction, please show me why I should stay. Is there something I didn't know about such as an inheritance? At the very least, validate me as I make my exit by showing concern, then my ego is boosted and I can argue against your wishes to frame the situation to make myself not the 'bad guy'.

                  [–]yself 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                  Another related communication control tactic comes with the words, "I don't want to talk about it." Reply to that one saying you can respect their freedom to terminate communication about things they don't want to talk about. Then walk away from that relationship. If they don't want to communicate, they don't care about that relationship and they don't deserve to have it continue.

                  [–]1User-31f64a4e 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                  When you hear this, keep your cool and hold frame.
                  "We need to talk" translates to, "You're in trouble, Buster."

                  One problem here is that she is presuming she is entitled to declare you to be in trouble.
                  Another is that she is trying to use this to intimidate you.

                  "We need to talk" is a power move to put you on your back foot, so you operate from reduced leverage. It is often accompanied by demands.

                  Use this to your advantage. If you keep your cool when you hear this, then
                  (1) Her gambit has failed, because you were alerted ahead of time and thus able to hold frame.
                  (2) Any bombshell or demand dropped can actually have less impact, since you knew something was coming.

                  [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                  When you say OK to "We need to talk" and wait her, you just lost frame. Think of it like this, A dog patiently waiting for the master for food/ball. If you have/had a dog, you know that look it gives, very beta position. it's exact look you give when you take that bait. waiting for her to give out the information.

                  Another classic female power grabbing technique is want to talk/asking about something/shit testing while you are busy doing something. When you are busy with the job at hand, you are at your weakest frame. your masculine defenses are down. they try that power grabbing shit test at that time. Unless it's emergency, don't give attention to her just say "We will talk about it later" better yet, give her "Seriously?" look and continue doing what you were doing. If you do engage her dropping what you were doing, congratulations, you just lost your frame.you accepted that her petty issue is more important than your time. Just like a master's time is important than slaves.

                  [–]2popthatpill 3 points4 points  (1 child)

                  Excellent post. This is good advice in general - the usage of suspense to intimidate and browbeat is abusive behaviour, whoever it comes from.

                  "We need to talk" is, in itself, a red flag. If someone "needs to talk", you're being psychologically shit tested.

                  [–]Ferguson_Curly 7 points8 points  (0 children)

                  The only time a girl "needs to talk" 1 of 3 things are happening.

                  1) Someone close to her is dying

                  2) She's pregnant

                  3) She's about to dump your ass

                  [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child)

                  Nice. I don't suppose you'd cross post on mrp would you? Those guys could do well with this post

                  [–]Modredpillschool[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                  Feel free to repost it, I won't mind.

                  [–][deleted]  (1 child)

                  [deleted]

                  [–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

                  I've always just talked through the 4th wall.

                  I don't. what is your big issue? Let me grab a beer first.

                  [–]idontwanttostart 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                  I think indifference is better than ALL those things to say...

                  [–]Modredpillschool[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                  In an LTR your goal is to train your woman to operate and communicate effectively, not be absent.

                  [–]demilitarizdsm 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                  Point one about "Fine" & "Nothing is wrong" is a result of you asking about her emotional state. Things like..."Are you ok" "What is wrong" Theory aside I asked my wife this question twice in the three plus years we've been together. I would only ask this type of question in an emergency state where I needed information to address a situation. Any other time, she is an adult and can voice her problems when she needs to talk about them. If shes acting huffy, shitty, whatever I'm not going to inquire about the problem. She can give me "that look" all she wants, she has to lay out her problems with words if she wants me discuss them with her...

                  [–]seducer4real 3 points4 points  (0 children)

                  Last time this was said to me was a year ago. She said we need to talk. We met the next day in person and broke up. I think it was good she said that bc breaking up over text is kinda weird.

                  [–]Countpudyoola 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  I break down two types of "We need to talk" my wife will throw at me.

                  I'll usually have an inkling of what it will be.

                  Scenario 1) If it's an obvious result of some nuking of a previous shit test I've just laughed and said "No...we don't" and then left (o.i.) if she turns on the harpy. Not pretty. But it gets the point across that I don't retread her losses in order to help her make wins.

                  Scenario 2) If I really have no fucking clue I take a s.t.o.g.t.f.o. angle as suggested above as in: "so talk", if she wont I'll assume it's back to scenario 1. If it's kid-ear sensitive I'll have to judge from there, but point out she could have just waited to start the conversation when more appropriate instead of being dramatic.

                  [–]TheMGhandi 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  Scenario...Bob calls Trp after unsubbing:

                  Bob: Hey trp we need to have a talk.

                  Trp: Nah, we're doing just fine without that.

                  Bob: I'm serious. I've been only reading your threads but now it's time for me to see other subreddits.

                  Bob: Okay. (626 others currently swallowing Trp).

                  Bob: Really? You don't even care? I thought we had something special...

                  Trp: We did have something special and now we've reached a place where we have to move on. It's for the best.

                  Bob: I'm not even upset anymore. Clearly, I misjudged you, but don't worry about it.

                  Trp: I won't. See ya! (Hangs up)

                  Bob: ... (Calls Tbp) Hey! Guess what that fuckboy trp just said about you?

                  Tbp: Don't call him a fuckboy. It's not PC.

                  Bob: (hangs up and resubs to trp).

                  [–]red_gerb 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  I hate the expression. "We Need to Talk." The last time I heard it, it was my Boss, and shit was about to roll downhill, from his Boss to me. My Boss was in a bind, looking bad, and picked me as the whipping boy. Highly unneeded disciplinary action, did I whine like a little bitch? No, defended what I could, and took it like a Stoic. Work for yourself, if you can men.

                  [–]IFuckingHateAllergy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  Always approach a woman as a machiavellian, never a logician. It's easier to use their emotions against them to allow them to be compliant rather than rationalize their actions and have them defiant.

                  [–]notrustled 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  When anybody says "we need to talk" and expects the conversation to take place in the future, respond with "if you have something to say, say it now." If they say it "needs to be in person" or they "need time to sit down and really talk about it," just tell them that you're not interested in playing games [...]

                  It's so obvious for me now. I can't even express what a dumbass I was when I caved in and let all that shit happen to me in the past. But that doesn't matter anymore, what happens to me is up to me from now on.

                  [–]SurferMatthew 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  I wonder if we could apply the principle of being less invested than she is. If you're highly invested in her opinion of you and in the relationship, then you'll play into the games and accept the manipulation. But if your investment is smaller than hers, and you're more invested in your own views than hers, then you're ready to walk away anytime she behaves badly and you won't accept her attempts at manipulation.

                  This troubles me somewhat because it means that even good relationships are tenuous, and I'm pretty sure that a relationship where both people put themselves first would fall apart pretty fast. Some people have a more fundamental communication problem that's not related to gender, and "We need to talk" is a good example of such a problem.

                  [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  I've discussed this issue with my LTR in the past:

                  "I don't want to wonder all day what you want to talk about, so I'll eventually stop caring so that the suspense doesn't bother me. I know you don't want me to stop caring, so just tell me when you're able to tell me."

                  This seems to have worked. It hasn't happened again for ~3 years.

                  [–]Sworn_to_Ganondorf 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  Heh this is exactly what I told my girlfriend the last time she said that, I said no tell me now im not playing this game.

                  [–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

                  Had a Tinder plate telling me "we need to talk". Right away I thought she was pregnant. Turns out she wanted to know some trivia shit about me. Lost all respect for her afterwards and soon nexted her. I don't need more drama in my life. We have enough with ISIS.

                  [–]Zchavago -1 points0 points  (0 children)

                  I like it. Good one.

                  [–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

                  The proper response to "We Need to Talk" is "You Need To Blow Me". She already lost attraction for you anyways