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Men's RightsA Message to Men's Rights from Red Pill (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by Senior Contributor: "The Court Jester"GayLubeOil

About a year ago Shoshana Roberts put on her tightest clothes, took the subway to the poorest neighborhood in New York and proceeded to flaunt her fat butt in front of Black and Hispanic men for 10 hours. Princess Shoshana's journey was given the uncreative title: 10 Hours of Walking in NYC as a Woman. That video went viral and was met by cries for someone to do something about the coloreds street harassment.

Shoshana Roberts spends her time tweeting about her expensive yoga pants and babysitting rich kids. Seems like a pretty comfortable life. In contrast, the dudes in the video don't have it as good. The New York Police department has decided to enhance public safety by touching as many Black and Hispanic penises as it can get its hands on, in a street harassment policy called Stop and Frisk. This is the American equivalent of the European Papers Please, with the added bonus of a scrotum slap and a dick flick. Think about that for a minute. If you're a Puerto Rican living in New York and want to grab a churro, you gotta worry about a dude in blue grabbing your churro.

So what does Shoshana Roberts think about New York's plum squeezing epidemic? Nothing. Anybody with any semblance of compassion or empathy would realize that men’s issues are serious, and women's issues are cries for attention. There is literally no possible way that women could see veterans hobbling on crutches and think women are the primary victims of war. There is no honest way to reconcile male suicides with male privilege. There is no way to honestly push for campus consent policies while at the same time not giving a fuck about prison rape. But Shashona Roberts is neither honest nor ethical. She’s a woman, and she doesn't care about men who have nothing to offer her.

No debate should exist between feminism and men’s rights. If one group is talking about cat calls and the other is dying on the job then the debate is over. King of Men's Rights, Dean Esmay, makes excellent points that would convince any reasonable man. However what his royal highness needs to understand while he's eating fudge popsicles and loafing around in cargo shorts is that a conversation with women is not about logic. With the exception of Bruce Jenner, women are not men and therefore they don't think like men. Women don't care about logic they care about credibility, social standing, and tingles. To a woman it doesn't matter what is being said, only who is saying it.

Women are social creatures not logical creatures and that means they value social standing over reason. That's the MRM's big issue, they have no social standing. Women would rather reuse a tampon than have sex with a MRA. Until that changes and men's rights stops eating cheese puffs out of their fedoras, they will never gain traction among women and will continue going nowhere, just like Dean Esmay in his crocs.

So to all of the men's rights activists that got trolled into reading this article, do us all a favor and stop being a chubster, speak with confidence and for the love of pregnant MRA Jesus go lift. Your body is the message. The sooner you start taking your appearance seriously the sooner you will be taken seriously. Who knows maybe you guys can help make marriage a viable institution again or bring back free speech to university campuses. We the Red Pill are standing right behind you, getting our dicks sucked by insecure sorority girls and calling you fat.

Tear down the symbols of those who oppose masculinity With an Avatar of Brodin Shirt!
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[–]1jb_trp 333 points334 points  (47 children)

To a woman it doesn't matter what is being said, only who is saying it.

I frequent the MensRights subreddit and sadly it has devolved into one giant circle jerk complaining about female child molesters and shit feminists say on facebook. Too often they're trying to win the "oppression Olympics" against third wave feminists and in doing so they're actually emasculating men and turning them into women. What has always made men so great is that they overcome difficulties and in doing so grow as men. Women complain about problems and need their feelings affirmed. Men simply fix problems and don't need their feelings affirmed. For example, fat women won't go to the gym, but will post 1000 selfies on instagram of their obese selves trying to show how they're "body positive." MRAs shouldn't complain about how "men are body shamed too," but instead should get their assess to the gym.

I think there are a lot of men's issues that need to be addressed (e.g. male suicide, biased divorce courts, etc.), but doing from the same worldview as feminism (cultural Marxism) is a fool's game because nobody is going to care about male "oppression."

[–][deleted]  (6 children)

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    [–][deleted]  (5 children)

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      [–]HonestMaskProprietor 16 points17 points  (1 child)

      marketplace of ideas ... popularity and eventual mainstream acceptance.

      This is where The Red Pill is going to fail you. The first rule advocated by the subreddit is, essentially, to never talk about the red pill in real life, and never argue the ideas anywhere but an online forum. And there is a reason for that.

      Many on TheRedPill agree that we are best when we are a relative minority. We do not want mainstream success because we primarily advocate individual solutions. And the individuals in this community are at their best when the vast majority of their competition is average and the outside world is not well informed on game. Our aim is to be in the top 10% of men or even higher, which only gets harder if the average man isn't a frustrated, miserable, underappreciated, and ultimately downtrodden specimen with no real ambitions or aspirations other than to not be alone.

      When everyone is quietly giving away their lives to their unfulfilling and unprofitable day jobs and praying they die before government insolvency and global depression ends their relative comfort in life, a confident and good looking leader who has a lot of hobbies and fun in life and is ready for anything (or even just fakes it) stands out in the crowd.

      I am glad you have taken the pill in the best way possible: the outside world is never going to care about a man's problems like they will a woman's, so work on being the best man you can be and overcome your hurdles by yourself.

      [–]HoundDogs 9 points10 points  (1 child)

      It's hard to imagine the idea of taking care of your body and learning the art of being confident in yourself will be a "fad". However, I've underestimated collective stupidity before.

      Ultimately, it's simply a reclaiming and embracement of masculinity. Not hate or maliciousness necessary...just the strength to be confident men.

      [–]ThereAndBlackAgain 43 points44 points  (5 children)

      That's the biggy. Feminism works because it carries on a 200,000 year old tradition of outsourcing problem solving to men. MRM fails because it tries to get women to solve problems.
      edit: durr

      [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      I like how you used the word "outsourcing"

      [–][deleted]  (2 children)

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        [–]arrayay 15 points16 points  (1 child)

        I am an individual, not a class.

        I think you hit on a very important point. Even outside of an attempt to claim victimhood, people are very eager to identify as members of a group. "I'm a redditor!" WTF is that? You are a person who was able to navigate to a free site on the internet...

        The need for a group identity is strong in people, and the need for a gang has been discussed as positive for male identity. Some group identity makes sense from this perspective, but aside from that, groups serve to dictate how you think, act, and speak, taking away your power and control.

        [–]EeeeeeevilMan 3 points4 points  (3 children)

        This.

        The problem with the men's right subreddit is they don't accept that men and women are fundamentally different (other than the plumbing) so their approach to issues goes nowhere.

        The problem with the red pill subreddit, conversely, is that although people do accept these differences here they don't take the eroding rights of men seriously enough or consider its potential impact on them, usually with a dismissive "Don't concern yourself with such things, bro, go lift."

        [–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 1 point2 points  (2 children)

        The problem with the red pill subreddit ... they don't take the eroding rights of men seriously enough

        Oh, we take them extremely seriously. But we recognise that we're in a minority. Here we deal with reality. Stacked against us we have a voting population that is about 55% female and of the remaining 45% men around 90% or more are thoroughly blue pill / white knight / terrified married men who know they'll lose their wife/kids/house/future income if they dare to even think outside the box their wife made for them.

        That leaves about 4.5% of the population that is even open to the idea that "supporting women while blaming men is wrong" and "men should have rights too".

        So yes - we really fucking care, but we know that if we stand up and complain about it that noone will listen.

        Claiming equality is what women do. It sounds weak coming from men. "Men have feelings too!" -> weak. "We should also have equality in the market place!" -> weak. "Men have body issues too!" -> weak. Literally noone gives a fuck. Change isn't going to happen. Men are literally not allowed to be both victims and have a sex life (women have decided this for us). Most choose the sex life option.

        So we advocate individually acting in our own best interests. Eg: we don't try and change marriage laws, that would be pointless. We simply say "Do not marry". (Seriously though guys, don't get married - it's the fastest way to give your girlfriend the security she needs to leave you).

        We know we can't stop the cock carousel, there are no pretty virgins over the age of 16 any more. Not many ugly virgins either. We can't change that but we can tell men the effects of post-wall alpha-widowing on women. We can tell men that "virginity reclaimed" / "The Sell" / "I'm not that girl anymore" is powertalk for "marry me and treat me like the virgin that I'm not while I deny you the hot sex I had with other men who I never demanded commitment or resources from".

        TL;DR: we really do care about men's rights, but we're not about to engage in a futile debate with a class of people who we know don't give a fuck about us.

        [–]EeeeeeevilMan 1 point2 points  (1 child)

        Oh, we take them extremely seriously.

        No, this is simply not true.

        Some may care--you may care--but I've been in this subreddit since it opened and there are lots and lots and lots of posters in this subreddit who don't give the slightest of fucks about those issues.

        [–]infernalsatan 13 points14 points  (2 children)

        The last time I posted to the MensRight sub was to encourage them to be more credible by collecting evidence to back up their claims, however what I received was complaints about how difficult it was. And I knew there is no hope for them.

        [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        They don't need hope, they need iron.

        [–]1nzgs 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        "Oppression Olympics" brilliantly succint way of describing MRA vs feminists.

        [–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (4 children)

        Too often they're trying to win the "oppression Olympics" against third wave feminists and in doing so they're actually emasculating men and turning them into women.

        To echo my earlier post today about why I'm opposed to feminism...

        ... this is exactly, and completely, why I'm opposed to the Men's Rights Movement. It doesn't demand gender equality, it demands that men be emasculated servants to the entire female population. If that's what it takes to support their movement, then fuck their movement (but really, no, don't).

        [–][deleted] 20 points21 points  (3 children)

        It serves the feminine imperative that way. Weak men hide in their homes saying and doing nothing. The only thing that can conquer a woman is a strong man. What MRAs do is rope in potentially red pill men and repackage the blue pill for them.

        [–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

        Is that RooshV's plan with neo masculinity? /s

        [–]TheRationalMale.comRollo-Tomassi 1 point2 points  (1 child)

        What's truly ironic is that for all of the distancing from TRP that the MRA has always done they gladly endorse themselves as "Red Pill" in the upcoming documentary:

        https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cassiejaye/the-red-pill-a-documentary-film

        I'm glad they're involved in the public awareness of men's issues, but to call the MRA "Red Pill" is just a convenient, and hypocritical appropriation on their part which only highlights them as the carpet baggers they are.

        When an Eliot Rodger gets called an MRA the story is "Fuck those Red Pill guys, they're dangerous snake oil salesmen", but when a cute feminist wants to make a documentary about the MRM, then it's "Oh yeah, let me tell you all about how we're the Red Pill."

        GTFOH

        [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Subversive feminist tactics. Feminism applied to men, i.e. men as victims, puts MRAs in a place where they must accept female victimization (feminism) as also true.

        [–]Sadpanda596 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Completely agree, MensRights is literally the female equivalent of feminism. It stems from this god damn victimhood competition so prevalent in modern culture. If these same dudes had been born with female genitalia they'd be the loudest god damn tumblr activists out there.

        [–]williesmokes 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Damn that is some true shit right there.

        [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (6 children)

        I also used to read that sub but got sick of reading about how my dick has been mutilated. I don't look or feel mutilated. Fuck that victim shit. Straight out of the wrong playbook.

        [–]arrayay 10 points11 points  (1 child)

        That's a can of worms. You are exactly right that claiming to be a victim based on circumcision is wrong. However, it is a valid point that men have no choice in the matter and are subjected to a Judaic custom. I guess Jewish men should have no issue, but if you aren't Jewish it is a bit of WTF. I see the issue as being it is not reversible. If you don't circumcise the infant, they can always choose to get circumcised later.

        [–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        Circumcision should be a criminal act. Involuntarily mutilating the sex organs of a child? How in god's name.... let me rephrase. How on earth did this ever get to be a thing? It's insanity that it continues in this day and age.

        You want to mutilate yourself at the age of 18 then sure, go ahead. Knock yourself out. But don't make those decisions for children who unable to defend themselves against strength and knives.

        [–]1whatsazipper 3 points4 points  (1 child)

        Eh, I don't know about that. I disagree with MR a lot, but the issue of circumcision is one in which I agree with them. The foreskin is not some vestigial structure. Lobbing it off is indeed some barbaric practice akin to mutilation. Removing a useful, pleasurable, functional part of the penis when the boy has no way of opting out or deciding for himself -- how is that in any way ethical?

        [–]tio1w 2 points3 points  (1 child)

        I think you're thinking with your feelings. you even write "I don't feel mutilated".

        I understand it's a very contentious subject in the USA but I agree with the MRA "consensus" position on this one.

        If you wanted to be circumcised you could have done it as an adult.

        I really don' see much of a downside to that view.

        [–]Endorsed Contributorcholomite 132 points133 points  (28 children)

        "To a woman, it doesn't matter what is being said, only who is saying it"

        This was one of the things that would piss me off the most before swallowing the pill. I could formulate a solid airtight argument about a particular topic, but if the "alpha" guy in our social circle disagreed, then every girl in the group would immediately side with him, even if his point was completely bogus. Then of course the other beta dudes in the group agree with the girls and I'm left looking like a jackass all alone, with my logical and rational points. After learning all this stuff it's so obviously clear to me now how it really works. The clarity I have now is almost blinding sometimes.

        [–][deleted]  (2 children)

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          [–]Endorsed Contributorcholomite 7 points8 points  (0 children)

          This is a good ass comment and you make a lot of good points. People already have their opinions about shit and don't give a fuck about yours. Arguing is only showing them that you want their validation and that your time isn't valuable. I never thought about it like that before.

          [–][deleted] 38 points39 points  (1 child)

          When I still used to participate in the MRM right before finding TRP, I felt at first like feminism was about to blow up as soon as everyone learned the logical truth. After a few months I was just shocked that more hadn't happened since it seemed so completely true. The red pill was especially attractive to me because it explained why the MRM wasn't working. It goes down the rabbit hole and shows you just what the fuck is going on.

          [–]Senior Contributordr_warlock 20 points21 points  (0 children)

          It's horrifying what the legal and cultural climate has become since I became a lurker.

          [–]Sdom1 15 points16 points  (3 children)

          There's a reason the vast majority of people never get a say in anything. Their thoughts are literally worth nothing because they're morons.

          [–]sub185 5 points6 points  (0 children)

          Electoral college had a design purpose

          [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

          I see it when I say something funny. We are in a group of people, we are talking and I make randomly a witty remark. It often goes unheard, unless a (higher SMV) buddy of mine repeats it a couple of seconds later or paraphrases it, and everyone laughs.

          [–]StarDestinyGuy 2 points3 points  (10 children)

          "To a woman, it doesn't matter what is being said, only who is saying it"

          This was one of the things that would piss me off the most before swallowing the pill. I could formulate a solid airtight argument about a particular topic, but if the "alpha" guy in our social circle disagreed, then every girl in the group would immediately side with him, even if his point was completely bogus.

          That's fucking mental and makes no sense to me.

          Can you explain why that would be the case?

          [–]Endorsed Contributorcholomite 26 points27 points  (9 children)

          Women act on feelings and are attracted to strong confident men. Facts and logic mean nothing when the tall muscular guy is telling them what to do. Because they are attracted to him, everything he says just feels right. Because their feelings are telling them he is right, that is accepted as fact in their minds. Following an alpha male is like a girls natural setting. It happens in the wild and it happens among humans too.

          [–]FemtoG 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          This idea cannot be emphasized enough.

          Please, if you disagree with this idea, think about it and experiment with it. It is absolutely,100% truth.

          It also doesn't just apply to women. Weak/dumb men are the exact same way.

          [–]StarDestinyGuy 6 points7 points  (6 children)

          Facts and logic mean nothing when the tall muscular guy is telling them what to do.

          So they're idiots basically. Valuing emotion over reason infuriates me to no end. I know some men who do that and they're insufferable.

          I need to find a woman who would fit in the Thinking instead of Feeling category on the Myers - Briggs test.

          [–]Endorsed Contributorcholomite 21 points22 points  (0 children)

          You can call them idiots if you want but never ever underestimate a girls ability to get into your head. She will know if you're full of shit or not within seconds and can spin and play you to do her bidding with relative ease. I wouldn't call them idiots, they just have to be better at different things than men to succeed in life and in their very different sexual strategy.

          [–]gebrial 5 points6 points  (0 children)

          Myers Briggs test is a bunch of hoccum debunked more than half a century ago. Even the original creator of the theory knew it was inadequate and the test was created by a couple of entrepreneurs who wanted to make a few bucks

          [–]FemtoG 4 points5 points  (0 children)

          You are looking at it the wrong way. The only answer is to become the "tall handsome alpha". If you know the equation of the world, but don't act accordingly due to your own personal beliefs/biases, it is only your fault that you end up playing the sucker over and over throughout your life.

          Swallowing the Redpill means you understand the equation, but now using that equation to your advantage takes a LOT more work.

          [–]KingoftheAssholes 4 points5 points  (1 child)

          Impossible. The best you'll find is a woman who trys to keep her feelings in check. That's trying to find a needle in a stack of needles.

          [–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (4 children)

          Sigma FTW.

          Take that proper argument, use it to succeed in some social venue, then let the beta and alpha men fight

          [–]NecroticFury 4 points5 points  (1 child)

          its not that simple. You need to make it clear you are sigma, otherwise you're just the fucking reject.

          Its hard to differentiate. Thats why women consistently choose alpha, they know what they're getting.

          [–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

          It's all simple, it's just not easy

          [–]Endorsed ContributorInvalidity 108 points109 points  (22 children)

          Basically, these women want to be able to dress like hookers and flaunt themselves without being judged for it. They say that they haven't given consent to these men for acting upon their urges, yet, they do not realize that they are giving implied consent to attractive guys who they flirt with.

          Women don't like it when an ugly guy tries to make a move on them. Doesn't matter if it was completely civil or not, the act itself is offensive to them. When an attractive guy does it, a girl will rationalize that she has already given them consent to do so. She's not wrong to some degree; she is giving those particular men implied consent.

          If a guy has to even ask a girl for consent, he has failed. A guy can NEVER ask for consent, he simply has to know when a girl is giving him the green light.

          [–]1nzgs 46 points47 points  (1 child)

          Freedom without responsibility - © Feminism.

          [–]1Kolbath 6 points7 points  (0 children)

          Basically, these women want to be able to dress like hookers and flaunt themselves without being judged for it.

          "I'm not a sex object! I'm just sexy."

          Yeah, sure you are, cupcake.

          [–][deleted] 40 points41 points  (1 child)

          "Wearing nothing at all in the middle of the town square doesn't give you the right to look at me! Raaaaaaaape!!!!!!!"

          [–]Schrodingersdawg 25 points26 points  (0 children)

          It's all frame.

          "Can I put my wiener in you"

          vs.

          "Tell me how much you want this" after hearing her moan from the giant hickey you gave her while you had 3 fingers in her.

          Which one makes you look more confident?

          [–][deleted] 29 points30 points  (0 children)

          If a guy has to even ask a girl for consent, he has failed. A guy can NEVER ask for consent, he simply has to know when a girl is giving him the green light.

          And this is exactly the sort of guy that women want. A guy who just "gets it." In other words, they want us to read their minds.

          [–]strps 10 points11 points  (6 children)

          Women don't like it when an ugly guy tries to make a move on them.

          GLO makes the great point that it is not facial features but social standing that is particularly off putting to women being cat called, and I think he's right. If the opportunity for a hypergamous leap isn't there, the woman will define the interaction as 'creepy.'

          What if that video of the shrink-wrapped mute chubster walking through NYC showed her scorning white dudes who were kicking her game? It would have gone more viral than influenza. As it was, the video was so transparently racial that it fell awkwardly flat after a couple days of feminist outrage, primarily due to the fact that was an obvious leveraging of non-white cultural attitudes around sexual interaction (ironically, those things that the SJWs has a soft spot for and claim white male privilege ignores as a way to further promote the cause of diversity) into claims of 'systematic' sexism.

          Aside from that I think you're right, guys simply are supposed to know that they are high value enough to take what they want, and women frequently respond similarly with the high end restaurant attitude of "If you have to ask..." The thing is, we have to approach in order to figure out where our value actually lies in the social sphere, that's the nature of it, and women prefer this whether feminist or not, as it leaves the ball in their court. Moral of the story: keep approaching.

          [–]royal_fucktard 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          I don't even think they need to dress like hookers or even flaunt themselves. Men reacting to hott women is BIOLOGY. Basically, feminists would need to have all men on the street castrated in order to succeed in their goals to end cat calling. Ask a feminazi or a lesbian who hates being cat called if this is a viable solution and most would agree.

          [–][deleted] 33 points34 points  (9 children)

          Your body is the message.

          Women are fucked up. The reason MRAs have shit bodies is because of blue pill conditioning, blue pill lies, and the lie that female sexuality is benevolent. The only men who can speak put are the ones with no reason too.

          That's one of the great things about TRP. We build men up so that they can speak, except we let them remember their anger. One day, we'll educate the world and this feminism shit will die off. Until then one man at a time. Even if we ultimately fail, we've saved over 100,000 lives.

          [–][deleted]  (7 children)

          [deleted]

            [–]mechdemon 9 points10 points  (3 children)

            I'm MGTOW because women bring nothing to the table. It allows me to focus on martial training, Eating right (and well!), and to find the the sublime pleasures in a cup of coffee and a hookah on my back patio in the townhouse I own.

            I know its the internet, but we can please refrain from over-generalization? I happen to agree w/ op about presentation of the message but I've had the thought that red pill's endgame is MGTOW once you get tired of female banality.

            [–]Moonvie 7 points8 points  (0 children)

            This is one of the things that bothers me most about people who preach men's rights and MGTOW. Most of these men tend to be fat, weak, and pathetic dudes who hope that through gathering with other fat, weak, and pathetic dudes that it will make them less so.

            This is also my problem with MRM. I've read their sub and done a lot of research on the subject, but to me it looks like it's just copying feminism by delegating personal problems to an outside party. "It's not my fault that I'm fat, it's the evil society" and all that. Once you stop taking personal responsibility for your own problems and start blaming outsiders for your own fuck ups you're basically a mangina who thinks he's defending men's rights.

            Feminism has the upper hand in bitching and moaning and trying to fight the masters of the art with the same tools is retarded.

            Nearly all of the MRM's points are actually valid and they helped me see the world for what it actually is and I've made a lot of improvements on my own life so it works a lot better as an informative movement. It'll never have roaring masses of social media mascunazis fighting the evils of women when someone is trying womansplain something. If it some day has... it has failed.

            [–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

            MGTOW

            MGTOW only counts when you're attractive and successful. Otherwise it's like a victim saying that they "forgive" their aggressor when in reality they just can't do anything about it.

            [–]1Kolbath 60 points61 points  (46 children)

            This begs the question of why we spend our time marginalizing men who are victims of domestic abuse or sexual violence. No mention is made here of the video made several months ago that had a woman slapping and punching a man on London street while passers-by merely passed by.

            At the same time, when the actors moved two streets and reversed the game, dozens of people leapt to stop the man from abusing the woman.

            We pretend a lot in America. We pretend that the murder of an unborn child is a women's health issue. We pretend that regretting that you had sex with someone days, weeks, or even months later is the same as being forcibly assaulted. We even pretend that approaching a woman dressed provocatively is assault of some kind, as displayed by Shoshana Roberts's asinine video.

            We have absolutely ignored one gender at the expense of the other. Aren't we supposed to be two halves of the whole?

            Im actually growing concerned. What happens when the claims of misogyny become real? What happens when so many women buy into feminism to the point that men actually make the prophecy fulfill itself and begin hating them for real?

            The same people that say it can't happen are the ones paradoxically pretending that it's already here. Feminists have no idea what would happen if men really did decide to treat them as cattle for breeding only. I've never met a single feminist who had ever had so much as a whisper for their sisters acid scarred, genitally-mutilated, and wrapped in cloth from the eyes of the world in muslim hell holes. The most you'll see is the occasional anti-female circumcision advertisement. The average feminist is more concerned with fart-rape than with actual rape as conquest performed by ISIS troops on children as young as seven.

            I'm a man. I was born to fight and protect. The idea of those little girls being beaten and raped by animals infuriates me. I'd kill them all if I could. Happily. With a song in my heart and a smile on my lips. But half my attention is divided, because I have to defend myself constantly from malicious accusations and outright bullshit here at home. From the woman I walked to her car who called HR because it made her uncomfortable that I was putting my own ass on the line to protect her in the highest crime city in North Carolina, to the fake female Green Berets that just "graduated" from Ranger school last month who I don't trust in combat any more than I'd trust a rubber M4; I find that I can't protect anyone else, because I'm too busy protecting myself.

            This is bullshit. I think I need to go lift. Thanks for the mad, GLO.

            [–]hebola4lyfe 26 points27 points  (3 children)

            Im actually growing concerned. What happens when the claims of misogyny become real? What happens when so many women buy into feminism to the point that men actually make the prophecy fulfill itself and begin hating them for real?

            That is already happening and it is thanks to feminism.

            A lot of men ( including myself ) used to think feminism was a bad thing . Feminism is actually freeing men from the gynocentrism that has been ruling this society from the beginning. Feminism is waking up men . For the first time in human history , the word "provider" is being seen by its true meaning : enslavement.

            [–]Hoodwink 5 points6 points  (0 children)

            provider

            The only reason this is considered bad is because the current sexual context created and glorified by feminism. It's not really enslavement when behaviors are controlled by social context and ability.

            You used to get a virgin who believed God would punish her if she had a quickie in the bathroom with Chad. Or when she's fucking her boss or personal trainer. If you didn't really like your wife, you could be 'working late in the office' most every day (and I don't mean cheating, just spending time with without her).

            Nowadays, beta's get rinsed. Single mother's get Daddy government and a number of advertising agencies and Hollywood productions talking about their heroic abilities. They stroke women's egos constantly because they ultimately have cash and the most ability to spend everything and go into debt and then bounce back.

            [–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (7 children)

            What happens when the claims of misogyny become real?

            The charge of misogyny is so sharp because there's no such thing. It's like being accused of hating puppies; it just makes you sound like a bad person because literally nobody else hates them. When the charge becomes real, it'll be fine to openly be a misogynist.

            [–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (2 children)

            For the record, I hate puppies. They're fugly and disgusting.

            [–]1Kolbath 8 points9 points  (0 children)

            For the record, I hate puppies. They're fugly and disgusting.

            You're an evil, evil person.

            [–]1Kolbath 5 points6 points  (3 children)

            I prefer not to hate anyone based on a grouping or stereotype. The problem is, stereotypes exist because they are largely accurate. We can say AWALT, because they are. They fucking are.

            I think most of us here don't hate women. We are confused by and angry with them, but to go so far as hatred... That's a pill more bitter than the crimson one.

            [–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (2 children)

            Misogyny's a murky term these days. I don't think many of us feel an actual emotion of hatred towards women. A lot of us are fed up with the entitlement, bullshit, and feminism though and it does lead to some negative feelings about them, though not as deep as hatred. A lot of what goes down here fits how feminists use the term "misogyny" though I say it not quite for face value.

            [–]holytrpbatman 5 points6 points  (0 children)

            I love women, I just can't put up with their BS for long. So I don't. If that makes me a misogynist by their definition, then fuck it, I'm a misogynist. I don't give a fuck.

            [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

            Misogyny's definition has been warped and expanded to cover pretty much anything that doesn't agree 100% with what a feminist has to say.

            I was called a misogynist the other night by the wife of a looong time friend of mine who I consider a brother, because I disagreed with how she was handling a situation. Basically she was ready to jump straight to violence on the chance that some cis white male privilege having shitlord would dare to oppress her. I cornered her into admitting that violenty dealing with anyone who doesn't subscribe to your particular belief system was tyranny. No real answer for that other than "You're a misogynist, and you hurt my feelings, and I want you to leave".

            [–]GunsGermsAndSteel 6 points7 points  (2 children)

            What happens when the claims of misogyny become real? What happens when so many women buy into feminism to the point that men actually make the prophecy fulfill itself and begin hating them for real?

            I kind of do. That is, I hate what passes for "women" today. I don't hate the concept of womanhood, in fact, I revere it- with all its ups and downs, pros and cons, I love womanhood. What I hate is the females calling themselves women, as if it's a title they earned instead of one they stole from their grandmothers.

            [–]i2amahandmodel 2 points3 points  (0 children)

            I'm with you. I don't trust any of them. It does sour my enjoyment of them. There is no surprise, no mystery. They are so predictable, I can guess exactly what they will do. I do hate them for the damage they cause. It's like 45% of the body of the population is cancer. We have too few working men and too many do nothing bitches.

            Why trust someone who always has the option to fuck their problem away? Not smart enough for the promotion? Fuck the boss.

            When I get my own company started I am only hiring men. Secretarial roles will be filled with ex cons to get them back on their feet. I'll have to do this in a country that still allows sexism, but I dont want my taxes going to a beta gov anyway.

            [–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (1 child)

            the fake female Green Berets that just "graduated" from Ranger school last month

            You're confusing Army Rangers with Special Forces. Rangers are elite airborne light infantry while special forces are unconventional warfare.

            Rangers don't wear green berets -- Rangers wear tan berets (they used to have black berets). Special Forces wear green berets.

            And though a couple chix might have made it through RIP (after multiple attempts) -- none will ever make it through the Special Forces Q Course. Ever.

            [–]1Kolbath 3 points4 points  (0 children)

            Thank you for the correction. I confess that the Army isn't my branch, and I am unfamiliar with all of their symbology.

            [–]unsoughtiron 9 points10 points  (12 children)

            You are right.. I wish a significant portion of betas wake up to refuse being providers for after CC women.There will be a huge shift in society when men stop caring about women at all.

            [–]1Kolbath 1 point2 points  (9 children)

            I was really, really hoping someone was going to tell me I was wrong, and give me so much data and information that I had to reverse my position.

            [–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (8 children)

            why do you care about beings that have no problem taking every opportunity to use and abuse you and would send you to prison for 40 years if it saved a tiny bit of face for them for a month?

            [–]HalfysReddit 5 points6 points  (0 children)

            I'd like to summarize my views on the concepts of the MRM and TRP here:

            Both groups agree the situation sucks. And by the situation, I mean the general dynamics of how gender affects our experience in society.

            • The MRM is an attempt to rectify some aspects of the situation.
            • TRP is an attempt to understand how one can best maneuver through the situation as it currently exists.

            [–]md619 30 points31 points  (15 children)

            Some really good points in this post. I'll go a step deeper.

            People in general have a tendency to backwards rationalize their opinions on subjects based on what conclusion subjectively offers them value. For instance, if I'm a lazy poor person then I'm much more likely to agree with the pro side of the welfare debate because welfare brings me massive value by giving me money to live.

            All political opinions in people tend to follow this pattern, but I find it's especially strong in women due to their capacity to rationalize, their lack of introspection and their natural lack of capacity to sacrifice for the greater good.

            One of the fundamental reasons why MRAs will never talk sense into feminists is that MRAs offer no value to feminists. If anything they suck value by detracting from feminist issues. They will forever bang their heads against the wall in till they can figure out a way to subjectively offer feminists value.

            One way is what /u/GayLubeOil is saying. If a powerful, high status men speaks about men's issues, women see going along with his opinion as having value to them. I could speculate and say it's because disrespecting a beta is one thing, but in primal terms disrespecting the alpha and the majority of the tribe's opinion is another. But regardless, women will fall into a strong man's frame and resist a weak one.

            [–][deleted] 21 points22 points  (9 children)

            One of the fundamental reasons why MRAs will never talk sense into feminists is that MRAs offer no value to feminists. If anything they suck value by detracting from feminist issues. They will forever bang their heads against the wall in till they can figure out a way to subjectively offer feminists value.

            Nailed it.

            MRAs don't get it. They say feminists are disingenuous but they don't believe it one bit. They think that deep down, feminists are simply misinformed, which means that they just need to be told the truth. An MRA discussing anti-feminism and men's issues is like the obnoxious grade schooler who who corrects the teacher hoping for a pat on the head.

            They don't know how women work though. Women have no empathy at all whatsoever and no ability to look at anyone but themselves. There is no honesty in feminism and there is no desire for equality. When the MRM tries to correct them, feminists just show their true colors by calling them "MRApists" or something like that. Anyone with an ounce of sense would realize they're fucks but MRAs don't have any sense.

            [–]Senior Contributoradam-l 9 points10 points  (4 children)

            In the greater picture, I think there are many overlaps among RP, MRM and MGTOW, but your comment makes a strong point.

            However, what ultimately undermines MRA's positions, and lies at the base of their ineffective pleading strategy, is their lack of understanding, or their denial, of sexuality as the core of female power.

            MRA's will discuss false rape accusations, double standards, feminist hypocrisy etc, but they specifically decline to discuss the male sex defecit and involuntary celibacy, which is what creates all the other issues. Unless you unroot this central problem, you will keep pruning the leaves again and again.

            Intrestingly, Warren Farrell himself, in the MRM bible The Myth of Male Power, identified that women's sexual power is too great and needs to be brought down - but no one took it onwards from there. (That is if you except my own book).

            [–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (1 child)

            but they specifically decline to discuss the male sex defecit and involuntary celibacy

            Biiiiiiig time. Feminists and women know the dangers of men discussing that shit so they go to far lengths to shame it to death. MRAs respond by ignoring the elephant in the room completely so that feminists won't make fun of them... even though they still do. Red Pillers respond by telling the feminists to fuck off and just banning them from our sub if they try anything. I like our approach better.

            [–]ky_windage 3 points4 points  (0 children)

            Debate rarely changes the view of either party in any circumstance, but the uninvested onlookers are the ones who can be moved to one view or the other. MRAs aren't in this fight to 'save' feminists from themselves in general or individually, but to have the lurkers choose for themselves to throw away their kool-aid.

            [–]md619 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            They think that deep down, feminists are simply misinformed, which means that they just need to be told the truth

            Yup. But you can't win an argument with the truth when truth isn't the primary concern

            [–]icecow 1 point2 points  (2 children)

            If a powerful, high status men speaks about men's issues, women see going along with his opinion as having value to them.

            I don't know about that part. A high status man speaking out on men's issues -- in women's eyes -- is a low status thing to do. Politically speaking his status is instantly lost as well as the message. Also, a league of women would send a calvary of tweets bitching to him as a vehicle to grab attention and to form a desperate relationship with him, a hottie. And of course they would bitch tweets against him to each other as a form of masterbation. The second part happens on facebook and twitter accounts and is cloaked in to darkness. The Political low status part remains in people's memories. I don't know what you'd call that except a big pile of shit.

            [–]md619 5 points6 points  (0 children)

            Women are obsessed with social status. The only reason feminists have the power they do is because they know they can get away with it. If the "tribe" were against feminism, they would never risk speaking out against the majority opinion.

            You'll notice that women will continually shit on something in till it becomes popular. Once it has majority acceptance and the unfashionable thing would be not to join in they will flock. But only once that tipping point occurs.

            So if they see a man commanding lots of respect and persuading the tribe they would not go against him. You can even see it on reddit. Every time there is a popular opinion, you can always find women clamoring to try and say how they hold that opinion as well because they want acceptance. It doesn't matter what it is.

            [–][deleted] 23 points24 points  (81 children)

            Male MRAs have no effectiveness outside of their overlap with MGTOW.

            I think MGTOW is extremely powerful as it is the direct application of the only power man truly has is being willing to walk away.

            [–]Senior Contributor: "The Court Jester"GayLubeOil[S] 42 points43 points  (80 children)

            Walking away works better when they dont want you to walk away and you're hot. MGTOW would be more powerful if they took care of themselves. If the George Cloonys walked away people would care.

            [–][deleted] 26 points27 points  (36 children)

            Most men actually will fit the bill at some point. They are Beta's and they marry sluts at the end of her CC run. It is these men that women do not want to walk alway, even moreso than your Alpha's. The Alpha's are a small minority and your average girl never really had a shot at locking him down. It's the Beta's who are the meal ticket, and who women truly cannot live without.

            [–]2rp_valiant 12 points13 points  (30 children)

            Do you know how many betas there are in the world? Billions and billions. MGTOW will never reach a level of mainstream acceptance where women are genuinely threatened with a lack of options.

            [–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (3 children)

            Well, us men find ourselves in quite the predicament it seems.

            [–]SpawnQuixote 6 points7 points  (2 children)

            Not really. Feminism isn't a natural state between man and woman. It is a government induced state of emotional and financial welfare that women are profiting from in the short term. The problem is, women can't see long term and just go for the feels and feminism delivers in spades.

            The bill will come due and maybe not this generation but certainly soon, the government will not be supporting all these single moms and the infrastructure to steal it from men will not be functioning.

            It can't be maintained without external effort. If enough men drop out the state will have to pick up and at some point, there is a point of negative returns.

            When the west is no longer able to support women's charities, like non-productive, feel good employment, single momma welfare, federal contract grants, scholarships, legal counsel, the bubble will burst and women will be forced to comply with the strongest survivor.

            Men and women worked this scenario out over thousands of years with nature's help. The government cannot sustain this level of resource plundering without consensus of the people being plundered. Look at most advanced civilizations rise and fall and organizations rise and fall.

            Just as an aside, the organization with the greatest longevity is the catholic church which has survived just fine without "equality". Men don't need women in truth, except to bear children. A human race without women would still survive if we could solve the childbirth thing, but a society without men would fail into starvation once the system died from inertia.

            Nature will have her way eventually.

            [–]Uptonogood 4 points5 points  (0 children)

            Well, Japan is looking pretty dire with most men walking away.

            [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (23 children)

            People in shit conditions like the super poor or starving tend to be alpha because they have to be. Only the well off start to slack. That's why it's the anger phase that kicks men into gear; they begin to realize that they're not so cozy after all and so they become real men.

            I'm sure the world is full of betas but I'd bet the third world, the slums, the starving, and the disenfranchised are all very very red pill. The alpha population might be higher than you'd think.

            [–]DannyDemotta 1 point2 points  (21 children)

            Youre romanticizing poor people. We've been over this. The poor dont generally rise to the top in unfair societies, the alphas round up the betas and put them to work for menial salaries. Betas only rise once they escape and come to a country like the US, where it is (or at least used to be) a meritocracy. But just going from poor to middle class doesnt make you an alpha.

            [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (20 children)

            Alphas don't always rise from their circumstances either. Sometimes they just become head poor guy.

            [–]DannyDemotta 2 points3 points  (19 children)

            I cant disagree with that. But lets not pretend that people are automatically more noble/smart/deserving/etc just because they come from disadvantaged backgrounds - thats just ridiculous.

            Karma doesnt always (or even most of the time) win out. Assholes gonna asshole, and the vast majority of them simply "grow up" - that is, turn to politics/social darwinism rather than continue the in-your-face/hyperaggressive assholeism - long before they get their comeuppance and/or hit rock bottom. Its the way of the world.

            Believing otherwise is a bluepill, mgtow fantasy.

            [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

            It's more that society just beats the shit out you enough that information becomes crucial. You don't waste six months orbiting a chick if you can't pay rent. You don't believe ethics are the currency of social interactions after getting mugged walking down the street.

            [–]TRP Vanguard: "Dark Triad Expert"IllimitableMan 12 points13 points  (4 children)

            It's the Beta's who are the meal ticket, and who women truly cannot live without.

            This doubly so in an era where gainful employment becomes harder and harder to come by unless you have some very obscure and niche high-end speciality. 1970-2000 was probably the best time to get a lower middle class wage with a soft degree. As unskilled/low skilled labour becomes less and less in demand due to outsourcing and technological advances, the betas that manage to stay in the middle class are going to command more power in society. What's the alternative for your typical college girl with a nonsense degree? She's lucky to beat the other 500 applicants for $10 an hour as a barista at Starbucks with her 2:1 in Psychology.

            Attaching herself to a high IQ guy who managed to break into a corporation and takes home even a humble lower middle class income is going to make sense. To some people $40k is nothing, but to many, it's more than they can ever hope to earn in a year. $40k in reality isn't much, but the poor are getting poorer and the middle is shrinking. As a function of economics, this will affect the SMP in favour of beta bucks.

            [–]Hoodwink 4 points5 points  (1 child)

            Most women in their 20's are earning more than men in their 20's.

            Why?

            Because they get hired because they are women (i.e we need to have diversity) with soft degrees - but more importantly because they have vagina. Older men want their vaginas, H.R. wants a friendly vagina.

            Your vision is a bit more complicated with the way hiring practices are. I don't disagree men with better jobs can get lower-class chicks to commit easily (as it always has been), but it's not paying attention to the whole picture.

            [–]Glenbert 2 points3 points  (0 children)

            1970-2000 was probably the best time to get a lower middle class wage with a soft degree

            You're about 10 years behind, but the point is taken. In the 60s, you could major in Spanish literature and 10 years later be the CFO of a decent sized company. People used to learn that shit on the job.

            [–]TRP VanguardtrpSenator 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            This is something I've been doing A LOT of thinking about lately. The economy is shifting heavily, and I honestly think we have entered a new paradigm and not much is going to change. To most people I know, they'll get a 15 dollar an hour job and be happy with it. Which I find extremely odd that they find these sort of dead end low paying jobs as normal. Sooo many people are in this boat, and they just consider it the way of life.

            And I don't really think much is going to change, as technology and automation advances, being self employed is really going to be the only way to make money. Because every time I hear about "Smith Company is moving into the area and is expected to create 200 new jobs over the course of the year!" And then everyone gets all happy and pats the company's balls for bringing in new jobs... But all I see is 200 new low paying jobs for the community. Sure, jobs are better than no jobs, but it seems like all these jobs coming in are garbage. They aren't the type of jobs that are going to lead very far.

            I remember working with a large multinational startup in it's early days, and this huge vast and extremely wealthy company was able to attract the regions highest young talent. Then I saw how much they were all getting paid and my jaw dropped. These kids were just happy to have a job at a trendy startup, and didn't care that they were still so broke that they had to still live with roommates (and in many cases, still depended on their parents income). And at the time, I wasn't even making that much, I think it was around 40k a year, and when people found out, it actually created some friction by the guys, and the girls thought I was Mr. Moneybags making barely a living wage. Meanwhile, I'm constantly complaining to management that I need to make more, because this wage isn't going to cut it.

            It's a subject that really has had me thinking a lot lately, because the changes are going to be so slow, that most wont notice it happen (as it already is). But it's going to have sweeping effects across American society. This, coupled with the fact that during the career development years, women are making more than men on average, is going to have even greater impacts on the SMP and dating in general.

            Now while American's are always going to be American at our nature, I still fear we may get an effect similar to what's happening in Japan: Men are giving up on women all together because they feel like they can't live up to those standards both socially as well as in their careers. While women are abandoning men because they too don't think there are any quality dateable men available.

            [–]TheSandbergPrinciple 19 points20 points  (15 children)

            I disagree, Betabux walking away fucks up the entire marriage golden parachute ecosystem for women who just hit the wall.

            [–]Senior Contributor: "The Court Jester"GayLubeOil[S] 22 points23 points  (14 children)

            They'll just start taxing single men and giving it to women. Its allready happening to a limited extent. Obamacare made it illegal for health insurance to discriminate by gender. Women on average have higher medical costs so the law subsidizes women at Men's expense.

            [–]TheSandbergPrinciple 7 points8 points  (13 children)

            Young women are outearning young men. Raising taxes will fuck women mroe than it does men. If men drop out of the work force, women will be the ones that are taxed more and the system starts to crumble.

            [–]Senior Contributor: "The Court Jester"GayLubeOil[S] 5 points6 points  (12 children)

            Oh don't worry the system is collapsing already. Here is a graph of them printing fiat currency

            [–]TheSandbergPrinciple 8 points9 points  (7 children)

            That's just peter schiff nonsense, the system is going to crumble because there are going to be far too many old and not enough young to support them and the old will ask for far too many transfer payments for medicare/social security.

            [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (5 children)

            I would disagree. Peter Schiff is bullish, but he's not an idiot, and printing money to this degree is more of the same economic shamanry from the high priests at the Federal Reserve.

            Yes, the fact that OTHER government distortions of economic forces will bring about hard times doesn't negate that the Fed's actions are prolonging, and worsening, an inevitability.

            [–]TheSandbergPrinciple 4 points5 points  (4 children)

            Peter Schiff put his foot in his mouth so many damn times, it's not worth listening to him. After 2008, he predicted hyperinflation in 2-3 years, that the domestic stock market would crash compared to the international stock market, that commodities would be a much better bet, etc.

            All of these were wrong btw.

            And it's nto that medicare or social security are what's going to cause the crash, it's the fact that there aren't enough young to support those programs. Those programs would work if we kept up the birth rate.

            [–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (3 children)

            And it's nto that medicare or social security are what's going to cause the crash, it's the fact that there aren't enough young to support those programs.

            "It's not the programs that are unsustainable, it's just this key feature of them that's unsustainable!"

            Come on, dude.

            Those programs would work if we kept up the birth rate.

            If your "program" depends on a variable of human society remain constant else it'll fail, you probably shouldn't have it.

            [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

            Hey gaylube, big fan of your writings esp. this post.

            It seems like many people in general already overlook the economic impact of bb/af with the state as a safety net in most of the west and people often don't grasp how comprehensive it already is.

            People get married and give high fives over the tax break without even second guessing why the state presents economic incentives to marry in the first place.

            Maybe it's waxing too political but it's pretty fucking mental how each and every one of us is effectively supporting single motherhood whether we like it or not.

            [–]TRP VanguardWhisper 6 points7 points  (10 children)

            MGTOW would be more powerful if they took care of themselves. If the George Cloonys walked away people would care.

            When discussing whether MGTOW has "power", we need to look at it on both an individual and a societal level.

            On an individual level, anyone's "power" in the sexual marketplace is how attractive they are, regardless of what they choose to do with it. A 9 is a 9, a 7 is a 7, and a 4 is 4, regardless of whether he spins plates, gets married, has a girlfriend, or goes celibate monk mode for a year.

            The only thing that changes his power is raising or lowering his SMV.

            On a societal level, a bunch of men going MGTOW changes the equation, even if their SMV is low. If the fedora fellas drop out of the dating game, then the fat corset-over-tshirt girls can't get boyfriends. If rock stars and NFL players refuse to get married, then underwear models have marry business owners. Supply and demand functions at every level of the sexual marketplace, and scarcities spill over into adjoining levels.

            [–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (8 children)

            The only thing that changes his power is raising or lowering his SMV.

            MGTOW does this for everyone else. Supply and demand dictates that fewer men means men are automatically more desirable.

            [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (6 children)

            Too bad China has 100+ mil too many of them.

            [–]wanderer779 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            the big thing would be if men got pissed off enough to quit producing a large surplus to be enjoyed by someone other than themselves. Actually this is also true of women, as they are pawns for the oligarchs as well, but the difference is women at least get to sell pussy. If we get a nation of Henry David Thoreaus then we'd have a problem but I don't see that happening.

            [–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (1 child)

            That's basically TRP. We don't have the same take on going our own way as MGTOW because we still want to get laid, but we're clearly sharing the spirit of not participating in this feminist shit hole. And we lift.

            [–]tallwheel 2 points3 points  (0 children)

            Ding Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner. Yep. TRP is basically MGTOW who want to get laid... well, except for those unicorn hunters here who are still hoping to find that sweet virgin wifey, 2-3 kids and a picket fence.

            [–]103342 9 points10 points  (7 children)

            Exactly. Either way you have to have value.

            Being MGTOW and not having any social value is just giving up on life.

            [–]2rp_valiant 1 point2 points  (6 children)

            Being MGTOW and not having any social value is being MGTOW. It's a lot easier to shun women from your life when they weren't there in the first place.

            At least, this is for the incel variant of MGTOW, which seems particularly popular for some bizarre reason.

            [–]PartyTimeMentats 2 points3 points  (5 children)

            I want you to do something. Read the sidebar material from the perspective of an incel. Especially about the nature of women.

            So now you realize you need to lift and diet. Problem is you don't like doing those things. If you did you'd already be doing them.

            Keep in mind the nature of women here. Do they really justify all this effort? I say they don't. You can hamster away that you aren't. But you are. TRP is about heterosexual male sexual strategy. That means having sex with women.

            The women described in sidebar material don't sound like the kind of people I want to bother wasting my time on.

            [–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor 2 points3 points  (3 children)

            But then they might be suitable BB for settling. Far more powerful would be to force all women into competition for a much smaller pool of acceptable mates. Feminism would destroy itself from the inside.

            [–]Senior Contributor: "The Court Jester"GayLubeOil[S] 10 points11 points  (2 children)

            No they'll just start being situational lesbians, getting obese and getting sailor tattoos

            [–]hebola4lyfe 9 points10 points  (0 children)

            No they'll just start

            they already started the situational lesbian trend 20 years ago .

            Have you noticed how all your high school friends are all of a sudden " bi " ?

            [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            A GC who walks away isn't a MGTOW though. He will be perceived as an eccentric playboy. The atomic pre selection will ensure he will never be viewed as a MGTOW walking away. It will be hamstered.

            [–][deleted] 22 points23 points  (8 children)

            Feminists often argue against the male suicide statistic, citing the fact that women attempt to kill themselves more.

            Taking your own life is not very difficult. The fact that women "attempt" it so much proves that most of the women in that statistic suffer from Munchausen, not depression.

            [–]Manmore 14 points15 points  (3 children)

            While it may appear obvious to many of us that men try to kill themselves because they want to die, and women because they want attention, most people will never accept an explanation like that. I've heard every fucking excuse, even shit like "men are more violent in nature, and thus their suicide attempts are more violent, and have a higher possibility of succeeding". And by nature they of course mean toxic masculinity and traditional gender roles.

            It's always going to be about women. Even this shit. There was "suicide week" on a morning show that I watch sometime for shits and giggles, and even though every statistic/measurement points out that men are the ones with the biggest problem, what they ended up talking about was that suicidal GIRLS is the group that is INCREASING the fastest.

            [–]Hoodwink 5 points6 points  (0 children)

            You've got to realize our culture is sick.

            And while it's women's fault, it's also our father's.

            Anything you do to fix it will be your grand-children's world.

            [–]Senior Endorsed ContributorCopperFox3c 22 points23 points  (9 children)

            The thing that binds all of us here at TRP is a rejection of the "victim mentality" mindset that is so prevalent in modern day Western society.

            There is some venting and ranting, especially from those in the Anger phase, but at the end of day, the key message is to raise yourself up. That is one of the key distinctions between TRP and Feminism. Ironically, it is also one of the key distinctions between us and MRAs ...

            [–]Endorsed Contributorvandaalen 17 points18 points  (3 children)

            "victim mentality"

            A few weeks ago I posted one of the best articles I've ever read on that topic. Didn't get much love then, but I heavily recommend it to everyone.

            Where microaggressions really come from: A sociological account

            An excerpt and basically the tl;dr:

            We’re beginning a second transition of moral cultures. The first major transition happened in the 18th and 19th centuries when most Western societies moved away from cultures of honor (where people must earn honor and must therefore avenge insults on their own) to cultures of dignity in which people are assumed to have dignity and don’t need to earn it. They foreswear violence, turn to courts or administrative bodies to respond to major transgressions, and for minor transgressions they either ignore them or attempt to resolve them by social means. There’s no more dueling.

            Campbell and Manning describe how this culture of dignity is now giving way to a new culture of victimhood in which people are encouraged to respond to even the slightest unintentional offense, as in an honor culture. But they must not obtain redress on their own; they must appeal for help to powerful others or administrative bodies, to whom they must make the case that they have been victimized. It is the very presence of such administrative bodies, within a culture that is highly egalitarian and diverse (i.e., many college campuses) that gives rise to intense efforts to identify oneself as a fragile and aggrieved victim.

            [–]Senior Endorsed ContributorCopperFox3c 8 points9 points  (0 children)

            I actually read a similar recent piece (not the same one you linked) about that same scientific article. Fascinating stuff.

            Make no mistake, Victimhood is the new form of power. It's fucked up really. And like all forms of power, it gets used and abused.

            [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

            Reminds me of the opening to a Lamb of God song:

            Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both. For a wounded man shall say to his assailant, "If I live I will kill you, If I die you are forgiven". Such is the Rule of Honor.

            [–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

            As long as a man's trying to raise himself up, there's nothing he can say to make me think he's fucked up. As long as a man's not bettering himself, there's nothing he can do to make me think he isn't.

            [–]briggs-D 3 points4 points  (1 child)

            Exactly. MRAs seems like utilizing a female solution to a male problem. This won't work since men are viewed as strong capable beings while women, just, are not.

            [–]Senior ContributorNightwingTRP 3 points4 points  (0 children)

            The thing that binds all of us here at TRP is a rejection of the "victim mentality" mindset that is so prevalent in modern day Western society.

            Perfectly summed up. Not a single word wasted.

            There is some venting and ranting, especially from those in the Anger phase, but at the end of day, the key message is to raise yourself up. That is one of the key distinctions between TRP and Feminism. Ironically, it is also one of the key distinctions between us and MRAs ...

            This reads like you think the ranting is a bad thing. It's actually important for your mental health... I'd just say that it's important that it's not the only thing you're doing.

            Anger is healthy, no matter what stage you're at. We just tolerate it more for the anger stage guys for fairly obvious reasons.

            [–][deleted] 18 points19 points  (4 children)

            I have lived in a few major metro areas, including NYC. I'm white but I have a lot of experience chatting up black and puerto rican women.

            Shit tests all over the motherfucker. Power plays are far more overt. A boriqua will run her mouth just to see if you can keep up and are willing to tell her to shut up. Respect comes before everything.

            [–]SPICY_BUTT_MILK 7 points8 points  (0 children)

            But why even put up with that bullshit.

            [–]Senior Contributordr_warlock 14 points15 points  (2 children)

            Next.

            [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            Usually. It's fun to watch them spin.

            [–]real-boethius 3 points4 points  (1 child)

            Personally I think MRAs have no chance of winning. The odds are stacked against them.

            They have made the case to anyone who wants to know, that men have serious problems, we don't live in a patriarchy etc. But no-one cares. The preference for women is too strong. No-one cares that men are dying young - and people despise men who complain because they are "weak losers".

            Still I give them credit for trying. Paul Elam gets a lot of flack but at least he is out there having a red hot go.

            Red Pill is a different approach "enjoy the decline". Make yourself atractive and alpha, get your act together and kind of win as society collapses. But everyone loses when things fall apart, as they are now doing.

            Women vote for more taxes, more spending, more rules more bureaucrats. And it never ends until the economy collapses under the burden. And it was ever so, once women get power.

            [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

            I don't even know what winning is for the MRA. However any change in laws, i.e. Alimony, would be fantastic and a real victory.

            [–]sugarwallsrobinson 3 points4 points  (1 child)

            Ha. I never thought of stop and frisk laws like that... Especially in contrast to the idiotic and obviously racist catcalling videos.

            [–]EnriqueRoz 6 points7 points  (1 child)

            Dean looks like the comic book store guy in The Simpsons.

            [–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (2 children)

            The problem with the whole MRA thing is that it tries to have a rational conversation with women about men's issues. This foolishly assumes that 1) women are capable of rational thinking and 2) that women would even give a fuck about our issues if they were.

            We're past the point of talking. Responding to feminism is a lot like dealing with an ex-girlfriend on a societal level. Do we calmly talk things out and try to "work on things?" Fuck no. But that's exactly what MRAs are attempting to do.

            Fuck communication, we've (collectively, as men) tried that shit for decades. MRAs are pathetic to me because they even give feminism the dignity of a fucking response. Don't take it seriously. Don't give it credibility by dignifying it with a response. Don't even waste your time on it.

            Improve yourself and your life, then laugh at how fucking retarded everyone else is.

            [–][deleted]  (1 child)

            [deleted]

              [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              I can be personally affected by it, you're right. How we handle it should be through actions, not discourse, however. "Talking things out" just gives them room to manipulate. A woman's home field is in conversation. A man's is in action. The longer we engage them in dialogue (and thus give their arguments the dignity of being treated seriously), the easier it will be for them to negotiate for concessions. Remember Law 15 - Crush Your Enemy Totally. We do not give our enemies the privilege of discourse. Respond with your actions. They are certainly not hesitating to act against us.

              Screen the people (especially women) that you let into your life. Use condoms. Vote against politicians who push for laws that aim to hurt you. Boycott businesses that support feminism's bullshit. Consume less. Work towards becoming financially independent so that you can tell society to fuck off.

              You know how we always say that a man's strongest weapon is the ability to walk away? It applies much more than to just women.

              [–]briggs-D 8 points9 points  (1 child)

              I cannot understand how MensRights will ever make traction when the playing field isn't level. You can't reason with these women. You can't get them to use facts and logic when they distort the former and don't understand the latter. If any man attempts to debate these women in an effort to show the public how absurd their thinking is - they will usually succumb to the ad hominem attacks (ala your a rape apologist) because the public doesn't trust men (very ironic). Furthermore, the only group of men who I feel should be able to make changes are the men in the 10%, who make women feel 'tingles,' who are dominant, successful, and ripped. Yet these are precisly the type of men who suppoesdly fit the 'Patriarchy.'

              I don't feel MensRights will ever be effective and as a man, I need an answer to the system now. I need a set of guidelines and principles and an understand of the world so I can carve my path through it and make some sort of life within it.

              RedPill provides this solution.

              -Edit: Does anyone ever feel like MRAs come across as whiney? Like its a female solution to a male problem?

              [–]Senior ContributorDemonspawn 9 points10 points  (0 children)

              I cannot understand how MensRights will ever make traction when the playing field isn't level.

              The MRM is politically dead in the water as long as women's control 55% of suffrage, contribute 1/4-1/3 of the taxes and 0% of the conscription, and both men (weakly) and women (strongly) show group preference for women's concerns.

              The problem with the MRM is they are trying to work within the system when the system is what is fucking men over. There is no solution from within the system, they have to go outside of it.

              How? Revolt, Expat, or Turtle. Either replace the system (revolt), escape the system (expat), or wait for the system to collapse and rebuild with a system that works (turtle).

              Does anyone ever feel like MRAs come across as whiney? Like its a female solution to a male problem?

              The issue is that too many MRAs come from leftist viewpoints, so they are too poisoned by equality disease (men and women are equal and interchangeable) to even realize that what worked for women, whining about issues, won't work for men.

              [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

              This post got 200 upvotes by basically saying "We support Esmay's message but he is a FAT FUCK who needs to get in better shape to represent men better".

              So Esmay is out due to being a fat fuck and women wouldn't respect him lol

              TRP is funny sometimes.

              Its true though when you attend a "men's rights" conference. Most of the men are fat, loser types that wouldn't be able to make it regardless of feminism or not.

              I think some of the MRM leadership (Elam in particular) love these types of dudes because they are easy to use for monetary reasons.

              The MRM is a fucking joke for that reason. The ICMI 14 was filled with beta nerds mostly that Elam used to monetary reasons. He likes to keep them "dependent" on him for the cash.

              [–]Senior Contributor: "The Court Jester"GayLubeOil[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

              Or maybe they liked my churo jokes

              [–]TheRationalMale.comRollo-Tomassi 7 points8 points  (3 children)

              What's truly ironic is that for all of the distancing from TRP that the MRA has always done they gladly endorse themselves as "Red Pill" in the upcoming documentary:

              https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cassiejaye/the-red-pill-a-documentary-film

              I'm glad they're involved in the public awareness of men's issues, but to call the MRA "Red Pill" is just a convenient, and hypocritical appropriation on their part which only highlights them as the carpet baggers they are.

              When an Eliot Rodger gets called an MRA the story is "Fuck those Red Pill guys, they're dangerous snake oil salesmen", but when a cute feminist wants to make a documentary about the MRM, then it's "Oh yeah, let me tell you all about how we're the Red Pill."

              GTFOH

              [–]An_All-Beef_Engineer 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              upcoming documentary

              That's called a hack job. Look at the rewards for the pledges

              [–]tallwheel 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              The title was chosen by the female creator two years ago back when AVfM's slogan was "Take the Red Pill". There are a lot of MRA's who are against the title.

              [–]PedroIsWatching 3 points4 points  (0 children)

              My favorite part about this saga last year was watching the video creator squirm around trying to explain why he edited out anyone that wasn't a minority. He tried saying every white person that said a word to this bitch during the 10 hour period were "off screen" or "timed wrong" to avoid looking like more of a giant racist.

              [–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (1 child)

              [With regard to the first video] TIL that saying "good morning" is harassment.

              I just came back from my gym I have sexually harassed quite a few people, and I have been harassed as well. And it all happened unbeknown to me and to these people.

              [–]2rp_valiant 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              Don't worry, the state will protect you from these crimes. You didn't know you were a victim so the police will swoop in to inform you of how you were violated so they can send some guy off to prison and start stealing his stuff through civil forfeiture and itemised prison bills. Yes, the USA has started billing prisoners for costs incurred while serving time. It's so fucked up, there aren't even words.

              [–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (4 children)

              I always get in arguments about this fake problem this chick brought up. Fucking annoying.

              Now you showed me her Instagram, something I had no idea existed.

              What a fucking joke. You're going to post pictures of your ass and bikini clad body all over the internet then cry harassment when people comment on it?! Un-fucking-real.

              [–]T0000009 5 points6 points  (3 children)

              It's only "harassment" if it's an average Joe....

              When it's Brat Pitt then it magically changes to seduction...

              [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

              It truely is magical.

              "Hey how you doing today"

              "Hey there darling looking good"

              OMG HOW DOES SHE SURVIVE SUCH HARSH WORDS!!!

              Gimma a break.

              [–]T0000009 1 point2 points  (1 child)

              It really is a wonder that women can breath on their own without assistance.

              Who would have ever thought that "have a nice day" could be used as an verbal assault....

              [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              Those whose lives are so good they are officially out of problems. She has all her needs meet living in 2015 America. Everything. So she needs to create problems like street "harassment". Is it scummy? Sure. It's for betas who can't get women any other way. But is it a "problem"? Far from it.

              [–][deleted]  (15 children)

              [deleted]

              [–]T0000009 6 points7 points  (0 children)

              Life is about living well, crushing your enemies, and if some Betty happens to show up along the way....

              Ignore her dumb ass and buy a new silk tie.

              [–]StarDestinyGuy 3 points4 points  (7 children)

              So why can't you be both Red Pill and a Men's Rights Activist?

              I align with a lot of TRP ideals and beliefs but also believe changes need to be made in the injustices, double standards, and inequalities against men. The divorce court system and child custody laws for example are royally fucked up.

              [–]1CowardlyPetrov 1 point2 points  (6 children)

              Most MRAs are blue pill as fuck. They don't believe in the redpill BEHAVIOUR that makes the man, starting with LIFT LIFT LIFT.

              And they are dictionary feminists. They DO think men and women are the same, which is why they think logic works on women, that they can have fat pride or whatever other bullshit, and that the "better" world to work towards is one with 50% parity with women in all things.

              Except that is a load of horseshit. Real feminists are wrong and stupid (female supremacy). Dictionary feminism is wrong too. Men and women are not and cannot be equal.

              MRAs don't get this.

              They aren't bad guys. Dean Esmay is a good enough guy. I like him. But he just doesn't get it.

              The fat thing is a great example of it, because AMALT. Most men are just as fucking stupid as women, blue pill as fuck, and total pussies looking for excuses for their weaknesses so they can just accept themselves instead of working to improve.

              How many of YOU are fat fuckers? No sense in lying to me, because you know it is true.

              Being fat isn't superficial. It is the physical manifestation of your gluttony, of your pathetic weak uncontrolled shortsighted hedonisitic loser nature.

              Being fit shows you are SMART. Smart enough to be farsighted. It shows you are disciplined and controlled. It shows you are the master of your own fate because you forge your own glories for yourself despite the fact that there is poison all around you trying to turn you to shit. Being fit is a the physical manifestation of your virtue.

              MRAs are better than feminists, but they've got a lot of blue pill in them. And in real life, when you try to build utopia based on impossible ideals then all you do is attack the foundations of anything good that is possible in reality and work towards dystopia like the one the feminists have given us.

              [–]2Overkillengine 4 points5 points  (0 children)

              I've said it before and I'll say it again:

              The current MRA approach is futile. Appealing (begging) to the powers that be only works if you have something they want, and that is usually either money, power, or pussy.

              The ones in power don't give one stumblefuck about what is right if it does not serve their interests!

              And since the ones in power tend to only be interested in OEM spec pussy, that leaves power and money.

              [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              If one group is talking about cat calls and the other is dying on the job then the debate is over

              Hit the nail on the head

              When I heard a feminist rationalize the 3-1 male-female murder rate the mental gymnastics were amazing.

              Never forget we are disposable and only you can protect yourself in life. I sincerely hope some laws get changed (alimony, child support, etc) but let's be realistic.

              [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

              On one hand, MRAs shouldn't concern themselves with the acceptance of women because it logically and morally means nothing to be desired by women - men have value outside of women. The validity of one's arguments and points are not dependent upon whether women find a man attractive or not. Shouldn't men have their own identity separate from molding themselves into what women find desirable?

              Men who mold themselves into what women find attractive may lose their identity and become gynocentric white knights who commit proxy violence against other men to protect women - these men fall for the "protect the women" rhetoric and are easily manipulated by feminists and conservatives.

              On the other hand, a movement's ability to be successful is somewhat dependent on how influential and acceptable it is. These things are not determined by reason or logic, but about manipulating emotions using propaganda and other devices to control and persuade the irrational human mind.

              Moreover, men have innate desires and fulfilling those desires, i.e. procuring sex and a relationship greatly improves the quality of life. There must be a balance, be attractive to women without compromising for what you believe in, yet are they mutually exclusive at times?

              Part of feminism's anti-MRA campaign is to make the men's movement "uncool." So you ironically have obese white women with short colored hair calling men creepy fedora wearing virgins for questioning feminism. It works on the same principle as telling teens that smoking causes facial hair growth for females which is more profound of an adverse effect to teen girls than lung cancer.

              [–]tallwheel 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              Well, the key is obvious then. Mold oneself into what everyone finds attractive and influential (both men and women), but always put yourself first. Don't give a fuck what women as a whole think.

              [–]LegElbow 1 point2 points  (1 child)

              I don't think this sub should be political. At least limit it as much as possible.

              It should mainly concern itself with self improvement and understanding/analyzing female behavior. I like the examples/field reports as well.

              The more political the sub gets the more it becomes something else than what a lot of people came here for. I thinking political will hurt the growth of this sub.

              [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

              No amount of masculinity will get feminists to worry about male issues. The reason CAFE does better at implementing change for men then AVFM is because CAFE says it's about "equality" which the average person can agree with while "A Voice for Men" will instantly be met with how men have all the voices because patriarchy.

              [–]moose_war 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              I keep telling people to just stop debating with feminists and women...none of it matters. It has no effect on them because as OP said, if you have nothing to offer the woman you're debating, your opinion is worthless. And if the woman respects and wants you enough to care about your opinion, there will rarely be a debate. She will just listen to you. But debating some random dyke with 20 face piercings is pointless.

              Another thing in regards to MRAs: can we please all agree that Paul Elam is a slimy motherfucker? I mean just based on his appearance and speech patterns, I can spot that type of fucking douche bag a mile away. And he's a complete retard who uploads shit like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfimcqjWHIQ

              [–]jeruka 1 point2 points  (5 children)

              You misunderstand MRAs. Men's rights movement isn't a movement to get your dick sucked by insecure sorority girls nor a movement to teach you to "control your frame" or whatever nonsense pseudo science is currently in fashion. It isn't a movement that teaches you how to live your lives dictated by the unconscious whims of the female collective to gain sexual access.

              You got one thing right though, MRAs have not really accomplished anything notable. I think MRAs have one big false assumption, which is that there exists compassion for men. They think that people just need to educated by the plight of men and they will start to care. But the truth is that people don't care about men. Men don't have that intrinsic value that women have been endowed with because of their reproductive ability. This however has nothing to do with how "alpha" the MRAs are or how much cheetos they eat. Goals of the men's rights movement are not gonna be achieved by becoming more assertive, going to the gym, getting more fashionable clothing or doing whatever that boosts your SMV. Men are not gonna achieve equality by competing against other men in dominance hierarchies or by throwing other men under the bus. That is precisely the reason why men don't have equality. And that is exactly what OP does here. "Look at me, I'm fit and alpha unlike those other losers in the MRA". MRAs might not have achieved anything worthwhile but at least they are not being antithetical to the well being of men like you are.

              [–]cesarfd 1 point2 points  (1 child)

              "MRA is nothing without RedPill", says the old slogan.

              [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              No debate should exist between feminism and men’s rights. If one group is talking about cat calls and the other is dying on the job then the debate is over.

              Well said.

              Einstein once said that he will not debate someone who is not educated in the subject, nor will educate the person who wishes to debate the subject matter, for they should first learn the content, make an objectionable observation, then be able to debate it soundly with found evidence.

              I am paraphrasing for the passage is in a book which I read a long ass time ago, yet that content has always stuck with me.

              [–]getRedPill 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              I frequent the MensRights subreddit and sadly it has devolved into one giant circle jerk complaining about ... shit feminists say on facebook.

              Just what TRP is becoming.

              [–]Elodrian 5 points6 points  (2 children)

              Why would Men's Rights Activists ever engage in a conversation with feminists? It's not about being social over logical, it's about feminism being organized as a zero-sum contest. Feminists will never concede a point to a MRA because any gain for men is a loss for women, by definition. When dealing with feminists, the option of colluding together against the banker is an impossibility. They are not so constituted.

              Are you concerned about workplace fatality rates? The gender ratio is irrelevant. Look at absolute values, and work with your Occupational Health and Safety committee to bring those numbers down.

              Are you concerned about suicide rates? Your area probably has a mental health resource center. That's an appropriate place to go to start a conversation about what you can do to bring that number down.

              Does the bias in family court seem like a problem to you? Reform in government institutions does not come from within, it is always imposed from above. You won't change the family courts by talking to the family courts. You'll need to talk to lawmakers.

              Now, maybe these suggestions are realistic, and maybe they aren't. The point is, that on any off the issues in question, there is nothing to be gained through debate with feminists. Women, and feminists as a subset thereof, do not possess intrinsic power. They have as much or as little power as is ceded to them by men.

              [–]TacoNinjaSkills 3 points4 points  (1 child)

              there is nothing to be gained through debate with feminists

              Here I disagree. Much like debating with a religious kook, it is not the debate opponent you are trying to convince. People on the sidelines are the true target.

              [–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

              The way to debate a feminist is trolling, banter, and black knighting. Be more fun than they are, better to grab a drink with, and more well rounded of a person. The rest solves itself.

              [–]aa223 3 points4 points  (0 children)

              To me MRAs and feminists are two sides of the same coin. They both don't do anything that is beneficial to society and never will. They both bitch and whine about how bad they have it when really they have a lot to be thankful for. I mean for God's sake their most influential speaker is a woman in the MRA and nothing against Karen since she is someone I listen to every now and then but shouldn't it be a man since this is a men's rights movement? I mean call me a bigot or any insult you want but that does not make sense to me.

              I mean the only thing MRAs have is being able to recite statistics but other than that they aren't men of action. They are just keyboard warriors and ranters on youtube with patreons. In fact, both feminists and MRAs work off each other and give each other material to rant about and people pay them to talk so they can maintain their lifestyle, which I have nothing against too much, but I feel like they are conspiring with each other to create a symbiotic patreon economy.

              [–]RedPillMagazine 2 points3 points  (7 children)

              It's not really 'trolling' when it's true though. I have been an MRA for years and years, and consistently every time I introduce a woman to the videos or whatnot, their first comment is along the lines of 'don't they shower?' and 'Are MRAs morally opposed to haircuts and nice clothes?'.

              But, the MRM is caught in the throes of 'Just Be Yourself' (although most will refuse to admit it) feminist conditioning from the male perspective, and a good portion of us simply believe we are good enough as is, with no need to improve, and nevermind that reality doesn't mesh with this fantasy.

              IOW, we're human, and make mistakes.

              That said, I've been a practitioner of the Red Pill for years as well, and I can tell you a good portion of RP 'glitterati' has their own heads equally up their asses about similar, but different issues. Basically, if you think you occupy some kind of high ground because Red Pill, don't. Because you don't.

              [–]TRP VanguardWhisper 13 points14 points  (1 child)

              But, the MRM is caught in the throes of 'Just Be Yourself' (although most will refuse to admit it) feminist conditioning from the male perspective, and a good portion of us simply believe we are good enough as is, with no need to improve, and nevermind that reality doesn't mesh with this fantasy.

              No one wants to talk about it, but the MRM has a real problem with feminism-envy.

              It hates feminism (with good reason), but is robotically and unconsciously following its game plan, its model of "liberation" from expectations and standards.

              It wants to do for men what feminism did for women. They do not see that feminism gave women power, but simultaneously fucked up their lives. Women are far less happy now than they ever were living under the boot of male "oppression". Freeing men from "sexism" would result in men being just as lost as women. Most of what we call sexism is a positive force for human welfare and prosperity.

              That said, I've been a practitioner of the Red Pill for years as well, and I can tell you a good portion of RP 'glitterati' has their own heads equally up their asses about similar, but different issues. Basically, if you think you occupy some kind of high ground because Red Pill, don't. Because you don't.

              Richard Feynman was once asked how he dared to contradict the theories of such a brilliant man as Albert Einstein (I don't remember the exact context). His answer was:

              The universe doesn't care who is smart. It only cares who is right.

              It doesn't matter if Red Pill leaders are perfect, or even sane. What matters is whether our answers to men's problems actually help men.

              The jury is no longer out on that one. It came back long ago, delivered its verdict, went out for a spot of dinner, and now it's home in bed sleeping off those three martinis.

              [–]RedPillMagazine 3 points4 points  (0 children)

              The jury is no longer out on that one. It came back long ago, delivered its verdict, went out for a spot of dinner, and now it's home in bed sleeping off those three martinis.

              Sandwiched between Jessica Alba and Scarlett Johansson. Very true.

              I had hoped to see 'the red pill' (the concept, not this reddit)develop into exactly what it is when the concept first came out. Well, pretty much. I hoped to see it become a mix of PUA, MGTOW, and MRA. I actively did everything in my power to make that happen for years, promoting the writers that I felt best represented each 'movement'.

              A lot of people here might be surprised at how close red pill and mgtow (as it was in the beginning - MGTOW used to be less a 'movement' and more a plain descriptor of a phenomenon) really were/are. See The Book of Pook for more.

              Anyway, the point of my high ground comment, is that each aspect has things to teach the other. Red Pill gives usable strategies, sure. But strategy that is codependant on the identification of problems from the MRM, for example. That is what I mean. Don't limit your knowledge out of pride, or tribalism.

              Trust me, it doesn't hurt to learn. Much.

              [–]Senior Contributor: "The Court Jester"GayLubeOil[S] 4 points5 points  (4 children)

              No one here is a savior. But if we can get a couple of boys in the gym and cooking healthy meals, we are already creating more positive change them Men's Rights.

              [–]RedPillMagazine 8 points9 points  (2 children)

              The MRM successfully broke the PC censorship society was under. That's pretty big. It also brought a lot of men's issues closer to the front of 'the conversation', and allowed a lot of non MRM groups (like Intactivists) to form. That's a few things I can think of off the top of my head, without mentioning the strong cross pollination between the MRM, RP, and MGTOW subsets and the resultant increase in wisdom.

              I find the MRM focuses on the macro, MGTOW on the micro, with RP being practical strategy and theoretical underpinnings of such. Because of that intertwined nature, I find it more than a bit silly to point at other aspects and mock them. All three groups do it, and it's stupid.

              [–]2rp_valiant 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              although that message isn't glamourous enough to attract the angsty teens, so it needs pumping full of testosterone. Plus the legitimate observations on attraction dynamics, which when boiled down are actually pretty intuitive - "women are attracted to attractive, confident men".

              [–]EvolvingRedneck 2 points3 points  (8 children)

              I'm afraid I have to agree here. Lately I have been distancing myself from the MRA sub. Couldn't find the words until one commenter said, "How am I supposed to be outraged at this?" I would rather focus on improving myself than look for the next thing to be outraged at.

              [–]Senior Contributor: "The Court Jester"GayLubeOil[S] 6 points7 points  (7 children)

              Are there a lot of victims of feminism and fatherless boys? Yes. But we can do more about the problem by helping them find their masculinity and the gym then by raising awareness" on the internet.

              [–]anonymousapple111 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              What infuriates me about MRAs is that they rarely do any activism that matters. Stop whining on twitter about Anita Sarkeesian and lobby politicians instead.Leverage minority activist groups like Black lives matter.Study history and learn what worked for men and worked for women when it (hint:passive whining didn't). Women and most men in this ADHD world only care about ethos.Learn better PR techniques.Develop and demonstrate high value and make it uncool to be anti-MRA.Beats headphones sell more than actual quality products like Audio Technica because they're 'cool'. Cavalier usage of buzzwords like misandry too often doesn't work as effectively for men as it does for women.Use better SEO techniques to make MRA stuff more visible. The righteous underdog winning the fight is a bullshit fantasy.The only two ways women can control you is via pussy and emotional manipulation (shame,guilt etc.),learn to be immune to them.Stop believing in fantastical ideas like the 'misandry bubble'. Do you really expect betas who were raised and conditioned to be beta all their lives will suddenly become rebels? MRAs use the TRP boogeyman to deflect criticisms.That's a good idea,but atleast take our advice.

              [–]FrameWalker 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              We the Red Pill are standing right behind you, getting our dicks sucked by insecure sorority girls

              At least im doing something right

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