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Field Report[Field Report] Sickened by how little marriage counts and how much physique counts (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by panzerbier

Before TRP: I'm in my late twenties. I've been your stereotypical thin, nice IT guy for most of my life. Had my share of GFs, but always committed LTRs with a lengthy wooing period in the beginning.

Improvement: 1.5 years ago I started lifting, eating right, learned about frame. I bench 110% my BW, deadlift about 200%. I'm visibly fit, and unafraid of women, but nothing special.

Results: Recently broke up with my GF who was pushing for marriage and children, so I'm happily single.

3 days ago at an industry event a girl approached me, started chatting. Had a date with her last night. She's practicing Catholic and married, late twenties. Without spending a dime, without implying commitment, within 2 hours, she was kissing me. Then she went home to hubby. This has never happened to me before.

I know one of you Chads would have fucked her, too, but I'm not that good yet. Will probably happen at the next date.

Psychological Impact: I just experienced a woman actively approach and disregard her religion and her fidelity vows just because she saw a better male than her current partner is. I read the sidebar, I know what hypergamy is, but merely reading about it leaves a tiny mental space for disbelief. Direct experience dispels any doubt. I feel physically sick. I won't be able to trust any future female companion after this.

Update with epilogue: A few days later, I did indeed fuck her. She wasn't a very good lay. Immediately afterwards something just flipped in my brain and I lost all motivation to ever talk to her again. We did meet once more for a 30-minute chat. She berated me for being a dick, said that she needs me, she feels there's some kind of special connection between us, yadda yadda. I politely explained that I'm done here and walked her back to her car.

Conclusion: one more data point for the Red Pill - physique matters; marriage doesn't matter; men want sex; women want commitment and get pissed off (but chase you) if they don't get it.


[–]TheStumblingWolf 218 points219 points  (11 children)

Yeah, people will show their true colors if they believe it won't have any consequences.

[–]Frdl 55 points56 points  (3 children)

It's sick how deep the rabbit hole really goes, and yet, nothing surprises me anymore.

[–]1sailorJery 30 points31 points  (1 child)

it's because people refuse to integrate their shadows and so the shadows run the show from time to time

[–]waking-life 8 points9 points  (0 children)

really liked this sentence. very well put.

[–]Rhunta 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You are that way, I am that way. Everyone is that way.

[–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor 24 points25 points  (5 children)

[–][deleted]  (3 children)

[deleted]

    [–]2awalt_cupcake 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    my ex had a copy of this (her favorite book) and now I'm alarmed too. Her stuff got mixed in with mine after the breakup and I read it for shits n gigs. It was nihilistic like Fight Club but it sucked.

    [–]eccentricrealist 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    Showing you her heart's content brah

    [–]KevinMKV 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    That's a really good analysis.

    Definitely keeping this in mind

    [–][deleted] 163 points164 points  (19 children)

    Nice lil FR

    Its not female behavior that is sickening you. It's the incongruence of actual female behavior with the bullshit expectations of women you wrongfully believed.

    Don't sweat the emotional discomfort awakening brings. We all have been there.

    What I can tell you, for me anyways, is that you can love women again but you will love them as they are and this trust canard you mention has nothing to do with it

    I love women and trust them to be women. THIS IS HOW MEN LOVED WOMEN FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS.

    They are lovable yet dont hold the keys to my happiness

    Stick around and keep us updated

    [–]SovereignSoul76 52 points53 points  (2 children)

    " It's the incongruence of actual female behavior with the bullshit expectations of women you wrongfully believed."

    I think this gets to the heart of it. You learn that santa doesn't exist around 10 or 11, that the government takes a huge chunk of YOUR money at 16, and maaaybe figure out that life is just pure chaos around 24 or 25. But this very basic understanding of women just wanting everlasting love and you being her prince charming IN PERPETUITY is never confronted. And the when it DOES happen to us, these illusory ideas about "why" it happened are just used to hampster away any agency from the woman.

    [–]Dragon_Garoo 12 points13 points  (0 children)

    And there's... the bitterness of the Red Pill. lol.

    [–]panzerbier[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Haha so true. Never connected these things mentally. But you're completely right. Hypergamy is basically the adult male version of there's no Santa. :)

    [–]panzerbier[S] 8 points9 points  (3 children)

    Yes, your observation is very astute. The upsetting thing here is the glaring inconsistency between promised/expected and actual behavior. If they had an open marriage, or if she was single, I wouldn't even have bothered to type this thing up.

    Thank you for being an endorsed contributor and providing the Red Pill. A sanity saver for a great many men.

    [–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (2 children)

    My pleasure.

    Let me say it again because its THAT important we dont take our eye off the ball.

    The inconsistency between actual and promised/expected behavior is all in your mind

    In fact women are disgusted by men who think they are angels and they fall head over heals for guys who "just get it"

    [–]1scissor_me_timbers00 6 points7 points  (1 child)

    They know they are stupid mischievous little girls at heart and are disgusted by males who buy into their deceptions too easily because it is a sign of weakness.

    [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    Yes but its more than just that.

    They want to be treated like mischievous little girls and the Suplicating beta doesnt so that. He puts them in the uncomfortable position of MommyGoddess and it disgusts them

    Recently I had a plate provoking me for a reaction and my silence wasnt very satisfying to her. Eventually I called her a fucking bitch and she lapped it up the way a cat does cream

    [–]1scissor_me_timbers00 6 points7 points  (5 children)

    It's really the transition from a boy mentality to a man mentality. As a boy, the way you envision female companionship is to meet your needs. This is the mother archetype projected onto females in the mating scheme. Which is the core of the illusion.

    In reality, she responds to a daddy, which means you have to stop expecting her to meet your needs and relating to her as such, which is to say, as a boy does to his mother, implicitly expecting emotional support. In the mating schema, you must shift to become the father archetype for her. Her biology is seeking daddy material not only for her offspring, but also to soothe her need for male leadership.

    [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (4 children)

    Yes, 100 percent and stated more eloquently than I could do

    Women respond to daddy game and hate being treated like a maternal goddess by slobbering betas

    +1

    [–]1scissor_me_timbers00 3 points4 points  (3 children)

    It all became so simple when I realized the transition from blue to red pill is all about this natural corrective of who is the parent in the relationship. Obviously not as an incest role playing kink but in terms of the archetypes and power balance at play. This is also why males have always undergone a rite of passage and females don't. Males have to transition to the other side in terms of their relation to women. And the rite of passage properly done takes care of the longing for a mother in his mate, and sets him on the path to be a daddy instead. Plus makes him a "made man" so to speak in terms of social sanctioning of the rite and it's conferrance of a man card to him.

    [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    The male ritual from boy to man is applicable across all cultures

    [–]1scissor_me_timbers00 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Right but part of our blue pill culture is the disintegration of rites of passage for males

    [–][deleted]  (1 child)

    [deleted]

      [–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

      Yes, over the rainbow of anger there is a pot of gold that awaits the man who can love women for the sake of loving women. He does it because men love danger and play and women are wonderful playthings

      Women are not to be loved with the expectation that this same love will flow back. It cant.

      Accept it or cry about it. It's your life

      [–]Forcetobereckonedwit 2 points3 points  (1 child)

      You have a beautiful way with words.

      [–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (0 children)

      Yup, the misogynist wordsmith

      [–]kokoke -1 points0 points  (1 child)

      Lol you sound like you're still in that Anger phase my man.

      [–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

      Yes furious

      I just want to be held

      [–]Endorsed ContributorThotwrecker 298 points299 points  (36 children)

      This is a good honest post from someone new to this who is expressing the visceral, physical pain that swallowing the red pill can induce. You either can choke it down or cough it back up violently and still kinda have the taste in your mouth.

      How many guys would cheat if they were married to a dumpy chick and a young Sofia Vergara came up to them and wanted to fuck them, and genuinely made the guy believe that she wanted to fuck him and there was no way the girl would find out? 99% of the straight married guys would do it.

      People are just shitty and selfish, and they are like this because of an overwhelming drive to maximize their access to sex and resources. You can feel however you want to feel about it, but this is where you have to internalize the precursor to TRP. The very first red pill your parents probably had to give you at one point in your childhood when you shouted "that's not fair!"

      "Life's not fair." This is the nucleus that I believe all things TRP spawn out of. Life doesn't reward you according to how moral you are, the bad guy often wins, and money does indeed make it way easier to be a happy, successful, better person.

      Drink it in, be angry, complain to your friends, swear off women for a month, go MGTOW, feel sick, etc, and then accept it and deal with this shitty planet we all share. The knowledge you need to succeed in life does mean that you become exposed to uglier truths about how people work.

      [–]TheHugeOtterDick 24 points25 points  (0 children)

      Agreed. The tools TRP provides helps to use these ugly truths of reality to our advantage. Can't really hate the player or the game in this case.

      [–]shamy113 19 points20 points  (2 children)

      Really like this comment, both sides have similar mentality and people are just shitty and selfish. I get tired of the posts that promote the op as some ethereal statue of good virtue just because he hasn't cheated and therefore feels all girls are scum because they swing to a better option. In this world loyalty is a rare and precious thing that you will only truly find in family and a few friends. Both sexs will always look for a better option, acknowledge it and start playing the game.

      Great comment, cheers

      [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      So... If you can't beat them, join them?

      [–][deleted]  (25 children)

      [deleted]

        [–]Senior Endorsed ContributorRian_Stone 151 points152 points  (2 children)

        he's using a gender swap to point out that we are as loyal as our options.

        women always have more options

        [–]illusiveab 13 points14 points  (0 children)

        Exactly, if you had a girlfriend and you met some other girl that was equally hot/cool or better, you'd probably jump ship. A man who cares for his woman will continue to focus on himself and his options because anything less is asking to be replaced. There is no charity in this.

        [–]Luckylancer96 39 points40 points  (9 children)

        I read men are polygamous. Instead of branch swing, men try to fuck as many as they can.

        Women fuck as higher status as they can. (Hypergamy)

        Boht of them infidelty but diffrent kind.

        [–][deleted]  (8 children)

        [deleted]

          [–]illusiveab 12 points13 points  (0 children)

          They joke about it even - my friend was just telling me about how that HBO show "Insecure" makes a recurring joke out of a woman's "hoetation" or whatever and it's funny/cool. If a dude said that, he'd be lambasted as a fuck boy/player and criticized.

          [–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours 15 points16 points  (5 children)

          We get sex from them, maybe some validation for a while until we realize pussy is mostly the same with variation in the wrapper. They get validation, attention, sex, and resources from us, and often a increase in status as well. We do not rise to their status by fucking them, but they can by fucking us.

          It's easy for a girl to get sex, it's even easier for her to get free stuff without the sex. They get tons of validation and attention from losers who will never fuck them. Why would they ever fuck that up to be with just one guy? Hell yes they spin plates, and the vast majority never even get to see a nipple. They gain from us, while they cost us. That's why they're always looking to trade up. They only stop when they find a man who can fulfill everything they need, attraction, danger, emotional rollercoaster, resources, and good genetics for offspring. Those men are rare, and will often have multiple girls they're fucking.

          Monogamy is made up social stuff, not biological imperative. It's intent is to make reproductive opportunities available to the beta masses who do the work. Gotta keep the workers going, so they get laid, have kids, and now work to support those kids. We aren't really evolved to be with only one mate.

          The whole argument about "but men do it too!" misses the point that we are men, we want to fuck girls, and we've been lied to about the nature of girls. We've been told they're innocent, virtuous, loving, loyal, and will stand by her man. It's all bullshit.

          [–]Ibanezguitarrocks 6 points7 points  (0 children)

          I would say further that they stop if they feel like they can't do any better and/or there's too much to lose if they get caught, at least the smarter ones do.

          I had a few opportunities with women that were with men who appeared to me to be better in pretty much every way. I was simply new/different.

          [–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (2 children)

          We aren't really evolved to be with only one mate.

          Indeed......I'd take it further, and say we're evolved to not be with only one mate.

          Solid comment and a great reminder to never pay for jack shit for a woman.

          [–]antariusz 0 points1 point  (1 child)

          More specifically men have been evolving to compete. And women have been evolving to better hide infidelity, allowing her to be impregnated by multiple men and manipulating multiple men into raising the children.

          There are many successful strategies for reproduction. If you spend time working with aquariums as a hobby you'll see a few of them. Some species has a flashy male, other species give birth to live young, some lay eggs everywhere, some species have really strange behaviors like rearing their young in their mouth.

          But nothing in the fish world compares to the strangeness of the human female and her mating behaviors.

          [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          Our cocks are shaped like plungers for a reason!

          Of course, the rise of agriculture and ownership of property changed the game.....markedly raising the stakes.

          Somewhere on the sidebar there is a great paper about the dualistic mating strategy, not written by a Red Piller which makes it all the more remarkable in its candor. I'm actually pretty comfortable with female mating strategy these days.

          Which is why I lift like my life depends on it. Anything to Kill the BetaTM and avoid being Beta Bux.

          [–]Luckylancer96 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Watch "hjernavask - sex"

          I read my comment before watching it. It support my claim %100 and totaly scientific.

          [–]hawkeaglejesus 19 points20 points  (0 children)

          You're believing in a false equivalency of sex between men and women. Women offer sex, men offer commitment.

          Except unless a man chooses to take his resources/commitment and give them all to a new woman, his wife hasn't lost anything. On the other hand, exclusive sexual/reproductive access is the main value a woman provides. Her giving that to another man means a lot, a man getting some side pussy means nothing.

          [–][deleted]  (8 children)

          [deleted]

            [–]sharp7 6 points7 points  (4 children)

            I would say the average guy cheats less, mostly out of the fear of societal rejection and intense brainwashing men experience in the west. But I think the fewer male cheaters make up for it and so the total amount of cheating is the same.

            [–]Endorsed ContributorBluepillProfessor 13 points14 points  (3 children)

            fewer male cheaters make up for it and so the total amount of cheating is the same.

            The "total" amount of a few men killing it is attributed to the vast majority of men who get nothing, even especially after the wedding.

            The top 10% of men have 10 partners so the other 90% are just as guilty? OK, sure they are.

            [–]sharp7 4 points5 points  (1 child)

            I meant people often say "the sexs cheat equally!" I'm saying that just isn't the case. If you meet a new woman, fairly likely she cheats, if you meet a new man, its less likely he cheats.

            [–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours 4 points5 points  (0 children)

            The difference in those two is the opportunity available to each. Girls have vastly more opportunity than men, even the highest status, best looking men out there.

            [–]DigitallyDisrupt 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            Can you rewrite your post? It seems as though you left words and sentences out? Top 10% of men what??

            [–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours 4 points5 points  (2 children)

            Loyalty and honor mean something to other men, they're completely foreign concepts to girls. We judge each other on our capabilities, knowledge, and strength. Honor is derived from having capable strength and not using it negatively in regards to our tribe or group. Loyalty is from overcoming arduous and impossible challenges together, you know you can depend on the men with you, if you can't, they aren't accepted into the group.

            Girls need none of that, so it's not something they feel obligated to fulfill.

            [–]DemumA 0 points1 point  (1 child)

            Why do you feel the need to generalize so hard. There are PLENTY of women who value loyalty and honor just as much as men.

            [–]abstractplebbit 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            That's what they want you to think

            [–]Dragon_Garoo 2 points3 points  (0 children)

            I think men like structure and hierarchy's. Women seek to climb the hierarchy. It's why, when there was a patriarchy, punishement for misdeeds were common. Not so much now.

            [–]Baconer 2 points3 points  (0 children)

            Thank you, this is spot on. I always believe that men and women are very similar in their sexual strategy (except that men have sacrificial love instead of pragmatic love).

            Men are going to cheat too with a hot girl even when married and religious. Not sure why we do not expect women to do this as well and get butt hurt when they do this.

            I really came to terms with TRP when I realized its just human behavior.

            [–]isayimnothere 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            I wouldn't but I have a fairly low sex drive... Though I do agree that most would....

            [–]panzerbier[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            Thanks man. I needed to read this.

            I actually considered MGTOWing for a while, haha. Unfortunately, sex drive is a powerful thing, and VR porn just isn't the same. :)

            [–]1jb_trp 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            People are just shitty and selfish, and they are like this because of an overwhelming drive to maximize their access to sex and resources.

            The truth hurts sometimes. Sigh.

            [–]Pastelitomaracucho[🍰] 31 points32 points  (2 children)

            People cheat. Both men and women. First thing we all need to acknowledge.

            And as the societal consequences of cheating become laxer for everyone, cheating also becomes more widespread or at least more easily recognised. Get used to it and enjoy the decline.

            [–]azevedro 27 points28 points  (1 child)

            Yep, I've seen it myself. And it really is sad. How can you trust any girl after she does that? For those of us at have a moral compass, it's shocking.

            [–]Dragon_Garoo 15 points16 points  (0 children)

            Hint: You can't. AWALT.

            Once you realize that, come to terms with it... the bitterness fades and you learn to accept it. A bit of stoicism and namaste helps.

            [–]Senior Endorsed ContributorRian_Stone 21 points22 points  (2 children)

            Get a physique, once you start reaping benefits, that anger goes away, and you'll think it's supposed to be this way

            [–]panzerbier[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

            Thank you - this is exactly my plan. My BF% is in the normal range but I just started keto to drive it down to the athletic range. Also continuing with the lifting.

            [–]Imakesensealot 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            Can't really do both at once, hombre. Trust me.

            [–][deleted]  (2 children)

            [deleted]

            [–]zephyrprime 0 points1 point  (1 child)

            Can I ask you what approach you take to daygame? I was never very good at breaking the ice during daytime myself.

            [–][deleted] 35 points36 points  (2 children)

            "Then she went home to hubby. This has never happened to me before.

            I know one of you Chads would have fucked her, too, but I'm not that good yet. Will probably happen at the next date."

            Don't f_ck women you are not attracted to just because they come onto you. P_ssy is not that special.

            [–]1empatheticapathetic 5 points6 points  (0 children)

            He never said he wasn't attracted to her. But her actions definitely turned him off. As he says, in time, they won't.

            [–]sixseven89 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            When did he say he wasn't attracted to her?

            [–]Avyctes 29 points30 points  (1 child)

            Panzerbier, as you enter the Manoshpere, and TRP deeper, I'd like to give you a great little resource, THe 16 Commandments Of Poon. Maybe not the ideal starting point, but a very adequate one among many:

            https://heartiste.wordpress.com/the-sixteen-commandments-of-poon/

            Good luck, sir.

            [–]panzerbier[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            Thank you, sir. I am glad to have found the manosphere. I remember reading my first articles a few years back and feeling as if a fog has been lifted from my vision.

            TRP basics should be taught at middle school. We could save young boys so much suffering and heartache. (I know that's never gonna happen. Society needs beta slaves.)

            [–]sjn2203 12 points13 points  (2 children)

            Best phrase I've read here over the years - "It's just your turn".

            [–]Psychocist 5 points6 points  (1 child)

            Better phrase: "it's just her turn". Never settle, never sexually commit.

            [–][deleted]  (13 children)

            [deleted]

            [–]Forcetobereckonedwit 14 points15 points  (5 children)

            Honor means nothing to women.

            Not true at all. Women honor their reproductive imperative, not "our" monogamous fantasy. Remember, at our most basic as males we are but one of millions of sperm and they are an egg waiting for the best sperm to show up and fight its way inside them. That relationship governs everything. Honor is a mirage.

            [–]Arabian_Wolf 7 points8 points  (2 children)

            That's the metaphor that describes hypergamy best, even biology is inherently hypergamous.

            [–]rubenescaray 6 points7 points  (1 child)

            Hypergamy is evolutionary, we can't be mad about it, it helps us to be the best we can be as a species.

            We have this knowledge and we have to put it to use into improving yourself.

            [–]Arabian_Wolf 5 points6 points  (0 children)

            Yup, survival of the fittest.

            Too bad closest people to us never impart such realities on us (at least my family).

            [–]1scissor_me_timbers00 2 points3 points  (1 child)

            Schopenhauer has a line on this:

            "Nature has made it the calling of the young, strong, and handsome men to look after the propagation of the human race; so that the species may not degenerate. This is the firm will of Nature, and it finds its expression in the passions of women. This law surpasses all others in both age and power. Woe then to the man who sets up rights and interests in such a way as to make them stand in the way of it; for whatever he may do or say, they will, at the first significant onset, be unmercifully annihilated. For the secret, unformulated, nay, unconscious but innate moral of woman is: We are justified in deceiving those who, because they care a little for us,—that is to say for the individual,—imagine they have obtained rights over the species. The constitution, and consequently the welfare of the species, have been put into our hands and entrusted to our care through the medium of the next generation which proceeds from us; let us fulfil our duties conscientiously.

            But women are by no means conscious of this leading principle in abstracto, they are only conscious of it in concreto, and have no other way of expressing it than in the manner in which they act when the opportunity arrives. So that their conscience does not trouble them so much as we imagine, for in the darkest depths of their hearts they are conscious that in violating their duty towards the individual they have all the better fulfilled it towards the species, whose claim upon them is infinitely greater. (A fuller explanation of this matter may be found in vol. ii., ch. 44, in my chief work, Die Welt als Wille und Vorstellung.)

            Because women in truth exist entirely for the propagation of the race, and their destiny ends here, they live more for the species than for the individual, and in their hearts take the affairs of the species more seriously than those of the individual. This gives to their whole being and character a certain frivolousness, and altogether a certain tendency which is fundamentally different from that of man; and this it is which develops that discord in married life which is so prevalent and almost the normal state."

            Fucking brilliant ol' Schopenhauer

            [–]Forcetobereckonedwit 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            Yup. My statement in a much more eloquent and detailed manner.

            [–]0signal0 3 points4 points  (6 children)

            Honor means nothing to women.

            Funny you'd say that on a sub where men boast about screwing another man's woman.

            [–]Dragon_Garoo 11 points12 points  (2 children)

            That's the crux of the 20/21st century though, right? We have lost our structures, our brotherhood, our mens groups. It was through those, that we regulated and controlled the 'honor' amongst men. I do believe men were less 'cad'ish' before feminism and birth control. There were too many repercussions, for both sides. Violence agains men, pregnancy and shunning for women.

            Even in the 50's, movies would talk about 'the girl that had to move away'., because she was reckless with her fertility. Or the shotgun marriage.

            There are few consequences now. So the game has changed.

            [–]0signal0 6 points7 points  (1 child)

            Well, Islam will take over, so just wait a little ;D

            [–]SwoleyMoleyFrijoley 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            Islam is the ultimate showing of hypergamy as reality. Men have been betatized so completely in the west by feminists, that they're importing the ultimate "bad boys". That care so little they'll beat you to death in front of your 5 sister-wives. Islam is the ultimate "guy who beats me but I can fix him" for feminists.

            [–]dontbedenied 6 points7 points  (0 children)

            Uh, that's the point. An "honorable man" would not fuck another man's woman, let alone brag about it. But those "honorable" qualities in a man don't turn a woman on.

            I really don't know what point you're trying to make.

            [–]1empatheticapathetic 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            It's not his woman, it's just his turn

            [–]Macheako 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            Couldnt of said it better myself.

            [–]kbox 6 points7 points  (0 children)

            Men look for contentment and stability and women look to upgrade. A man will quite happily say "this one will do" but women constantly think "can i do better?". As soon as something better comes along they will want it.

            If you lift you're immediately better than most of the men who don't. You're stronger, look like more of a protector and look (even if you're not) more confident.

            From an evolutionary perspective so long as a woman can reproduce they tick all the necessary boxes, the rest is personal preference (how they look, what their personality is like). But in terms of men there are hard and fast objective rules about what makes a better man. If you're stronger you're better, if you come across as confident you're better, if you look like you can provide you're better. And if the man she already has is lacking those things you will be seen as better than him and a potential upgrade.

            tl;dr It basically boils down to "I should fuck whichever one would win a fight between my husband and this guy".

            edit; shit it's my cake day!

            [–]Peter_B_Long 6 points7 points  (2 children)

            Just recently had a similar experience. I was out at a club with some friends who know how to have fun. We were on the dance floor and just having a good time when we noticed these 2 tall hot chicks standing next to us glancing over. My buddy went over to talk to them and invited them into our group. I saw my buddy talking to one of them so I went over to her friend. Within a minute we were dancing closely. I tried to kiss her at one point but she pulled away. She said she had to go, I asked for her number, she said she couldn't, she then raised her hand and showed me the ring on her finger. I walked away to meet with my friends in the patio.

            We head back to the dance floor and start dancing again and enjoying ourselves. I notice the married girl dancing by herself and her friend (the one my buddy was talking to) at the bar being hit on by some guy. I think for a second if I should go talk to the married girl and offer some vanilla dancing, but I decide to spend my time better with my friends and look out for a new non married girl. While i'm dancing and having fun, I feel someone poking my arm. I turn and it's the married girl, she asks if I want to dance. I decide to dance with her and try to escalate one more time since she came to me. We start dancing and she lets me grab her ass and grinds on me. I go in for a kiss and although she hesitates for a second, she kisses back. The last hour of the club we spend it at a booth making out. I get her IG and her #. We're meeting up again next week.

            [–]1empatheticapathetic 2 points3 points  (1 child)

            So i wonder how shameless she is about the 'cheating'. Is there a hamster running the show? Or does she simply not give a fuck. How much plausible deniability do you have to input into your text conversation arranging the next date. Is it under the guise of meeting as 'friends' or are you straight up giving her obvious innuendo (or even straight talk)?

            As much as i understand AWALT, i'm not sure how to navigate with an openly taken woman other than following the hamsters lead.

            [–]Peter_B_Long 4 points5 points  (0 children)

            Well it definitely wouldn't surprise me if she has cheated on her husband before or currently is. I'm sure she does give some fucks because she was a bit hesitant about kissing me at the club and giving me her number, but once we kissed she acted like she was single and horny.

            The plausible deniability seems to be the tricky part about meeting up again with this chick. I don't want to activate her ASD by making it clear that we're going to fuck, but I also don't want to waste my time and give her the impression that we're just meeting with friends. I've been in between. I'm making it clear that we're going to meet up and have some fun. No winky face, no emoji's. I'm just telling her that we should meet up for some fun. It may be that the club night was just a one time thing with her and she was only out to relieve some of her pent up wild side and she's just leading me on for validation, or she really is interested but doesn't want to seem amoral or like a slut.

            My solution is to set something up with her (something I want to do and I'd have fun doing by myself) and try to escalate and have it lead somewhere. Use sexual talk and be bold.

            With a woman, it's all about action. don't listen to their words, listen to their actions. I am not going to get any IOI's through text. I need to meet up with her and let my intentions known through my actions.

            [–]blackleaf31 6 points7 points  (1 child)

            It's also ok to not sleep with someone you know to be a married women if you don't want to. Game is about having choices, it's still ok to have boundaries too.

            [–]1empatheticapathetic 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            Well he didn't sleep with her. But here he is posing the question "why" and "is my morality obsolete?". He already supposes so based on his "will probably happen the next date".

            [–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (1 child)

            You wonder why the feminine imperative wants to import third world cavemen? Its because they're so deprived of alpha male dominance, they'll go out on dates with random dudes, while married, just to get that spike of submission and discipline from a guy who knows his boundaries and is willing to enforce them.

            [–]panzerbier[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

            I'd love to see what happens if a refugee wave turns out to be mostly 20-something women. The laydees would suddenly find border walls a lot better idea, haha.

            [–]cashmoney_x 26 points27 points  (16 children)

            Human nature is stronger than any ideology.

            [–]aigamithite 17 points18 points  (15 children)

            If that was the case no one would go to war. No one would blow themselves up for paradise.

            It all has to do with how deeply rooted the ideology is. Ideology has existed since the start of time - it is impossible for homo sapiens to live without it within the context of some community. The current prevailing ideology is not "your marriage is sacred", but, on the contrary, it's "you go gurl".

            And this is Zizek's third pill - it's not the matrix that needs the energy. The energy needs the matrix to solidify itself. Some would argue that knowledge of this makes you free of ideology. I would say not necessarily, since the above is ideology in itself. There are just too many layers to the human psyche; so many coping and defensive mechanisms formed at the interface of experiences and desires, that it's impossible to discern what is real (as in not an ideological construct) and what is not. Even science is ideology - we just label different phenomena with a name and try to describe them through our own experiences. If humankind didn't exist would time have meaning? Color? Space? Everything we see and experience is an interpretation that someone else came up with before us. A car is a car because some dude put some parts together and called it a car.

            The very concept of human nature is ideology; a set of some observed behaviors, bundled together and labeled that. We forget however, that for something to be observed there must be an observer. Who is that observer? Is that observer free of biases? Does that observer not have an ego-self?

            PS: I can't believe I wrote this post after a 18 hour flight.

            [–]_MysticFox 3 points4 points  (0 children)

            Interesting take. Nice reference to Zizek

            [–]rrrr266 6 points7 points  (5 children)

            war is the nature of all living beings on earth. it is fight for resources.

            the very concept of human nature is ideology

            it is the other way around. an ideology conflicting with human nature is doomed to be ignored.

            [–]aigamithite 7 points8 points  (4 children)

            Yes, Billy from Idaho quit farming potatoes went to Afghanistan to fight for more potatoes and to spread his semen. Billy got decapitated in Afghanistan by radicals because they wanted to steal his resources and farm his fields.

            How come Christianity preaches "love thy neighbor"? Isn't that against the very nature you describe? How come people still believe that shit and it's still not ignored? I'll tell you why; cause your ego needs to wrap itself around something to call his own. Something to believe in and give it purpose. Otherwise nothing has meaning; you cease to be the center of the universe. This is something your brain cannot accept.

            war is the nature of all living beings on earth. it is fight for resources

            Do you know why you say this? It comes from a conviction that these are the traits that define you, give you purpose, and therefore make you better than anyone else that doesn't believe so. This is what your brain does to convince you that you are the most important bundle of cells in existence.

            I feel good, or rather my brain feels good that I am getting downvoted in accordance to the mechanisms I just described. Because it shows that even people here have such a limited understanding of the whys in life, that no amount of pussy or lifting will ever save them and give them true clarity.

            [–]Dragon_Garoo 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            I personally believe that the softening of Christianity from a once 'fight them' ideology to a 'we never fight unless we really, really really have to, but we like to turn the other cheek' is what's doing in the west. And why our decendants will be Islamic. Hey, four wives. Not bad. And marriage of convenience (prostitution).

            [–]rrrr266 0 points1 point  (1 child)

            instincts dont always benefit individuals. sometimes they drive individuals to even sacrifice their lives for the race. billy the potato farmer's story is comparable to ants forming a living bridge or honey bees stinging a bear to protect their nest etc.

            the idea behind all religions is to suppress our animalistic instincts hoping it would make us a more succesful species. i am not saying it is a good or bad thing but it often doesnt work no matter how many people claim to be religious. religions didnt stop wars, murder, theft or adultery anywhere in thousands of years because what we call sins, crimes are actually a part of the bulletproof human nature.

            [–]aigamithite 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            There are two instincts present in all living organisms. To survive in the most energy efficient way possible and to procreate. Both benefit the organism. There is no instinct that does otherwise.

            Billy didn't have to go to Afghanistan to protect his potatoes - they were safe all along. Neither did Hassan have to decapitate him to protect his nest.

            The only thing religion does, it to give you a big Alpha figure i.e. God to tell you what to do. But who made that figure? How do we know what He wants of us? What if His will was not directly passed down to us because the conduit was a human and therefore fallible?

            Ask yourself these questions. My point is, everything we know, everything we do, has been done before by other humans, and therefore it is impossible to distinguish between a universal, cosmic reality and a reality dictated by humans, since the way we describe the world is based on our senses alone.

            [–]Forcetobereckonedwit 8 points9 points  (1 child)

            Jesus...what knuckledraggers would actually downvote your comment? Humans are the best, and the worst. Here, have an upvote for sharing your astute mental meanderings.

            [–]aigamithite 2 points3 points  (0 children)

            Refer to my new comment above. It's OK though; even if one person sees the way I see, or has gained something from what I wrote, my time was not wasted.

            [–]1sailorJery 0 points1 point  (2 children)

            human nature is way more than ideology. Ideology is cognitive and human nature is far deeper than that. It's inbred in our DNA. We don't "come up" with interpretations of the world, we discover them.

            [–]aigamithite 1 point2 points  (1 child)

            We discover what? Let's take the example of the word discover itself using the amazing translate tool google provides us with:

            In French it's decouvrir In Spanish it's descubrir In Russian it's обнаружить In Chinese it's 發現

            In this case we have 4 different interpretations of the same act. Wanna take an example in science? Look no further than the metric and imperial system.

            There is no one single interpretation of the world. There are as many as there are human beings. All we do is observe phenomena through our own limited senses and describe them with words that were pushed down to us from someone else before us. In this entire chain of events, how can you not say that information is lost or distorted?

            As I said below, the only thing that is on your DNA is to survive and procreate and even then that's just a hypothesis based on behavioral observations. A translatable gene that connects this behavior there has not yet been discovered.

            If you analyse everything you have thus far experienced and everything you know, through the lens I described you will see what I mean.

            [–]1sailorJery 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            There is no one single interpretation of the world. There are as many as there are human beings.

            but that doesn't mean they're all equally valid. And any claim that they are is postmodern twaddle.

            I say the information is preserved because the useful information always is

            [–]1scissor_me_timbers00 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            Excellent radical deconstruction. It's the truth tho. Scientism is a prevalent ideology today.

            [–]Luckylancer96 9 points10 points  (1 child)

            Good FR but this is not all about women. Everyone do what they shoudnt if it is advantageous.

            I wont be able to trust any future female companion

            Dont trust males too. Everyone may shit on you.

            [–]azevedro 3 points4 points  (0 children)

            Overly dark triad sentiments. It's not all about dark triad-ing and what not. We just want to help each other.

            [–]RedditDogX 2 points3 points  (5 children)

            Curious if/how your RP-ing has affected your professional life.

            [–]3nebder 11 points12 points  (3 children)

            People at work treat me much better at 185 with muscle definition compared to the 240lb slob version of me.

            I take less bs from people and am more willing to call it out when I see it. Makes meetings more fun for me.

            TRP provides a rough outline to improve your life if you put in the work.

            [–]Psychocist 5 points6 points  (0 children)

            Had same experience. Simply speaking up more and with confidence has garnered a lot of respect and admiration from colleagues. But this doesn't have much to do with TRP, it's a side-effect that could have been reached by many other paths.

            [–]hipfash3 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            I found that true as well. People are nicer to you for no apparent reason when you start looking better.

            [–]panzerbier[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

            My current manager and the previous two before her are all 40-something, post-wall women. And I can feel them positively discriminating me.

            There's nothing sexual going on, everyone's a professional. But compared to other (mostly married and overweight) colleagues, I seem to be on the promotion fast track, my performance reviews are skewed positively, my mistakes are quickly overlooked. Probably the same thing that happens to a cute girl when her manager is an older male.

            Can't say I don't enjoy this :) However I truly strive to do my best work.

            [–]TRP-Works 3 points4 points  (0 children)

            Had a similar realization when I made out with a good friend from high school I knew since bluepill days. (I'm 21 now so 3 years out of highschool). I always wanted to date her, and now she has a boyfriend, but me and her ended up going out and she was making out with me like a slut for half the night. Only faced LMR when we were in her bed and our shirts came off. Stuff shocked me and I'll never look at her, or any woman the same.

            [–]Galactic-Unicorn 3 points4 points  (1 child)

            My only advice is don't fuck married women.

            You don't want angry blue pill husband with a shotgun coming after you. Not worth the trouble.

            I've had numerous people die in my ED for putting their dick in some other man's woman. Not worth the risk.

            [–]panzerbier[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            Yeah I realize the risk. Based on FB pics, the husband's a chubby niceguy, but maybe he's BFF with a Thai boxer. I'll break off soon.

            [–]Jcart105 3 points4 points  (1 child)

            Women have evolved to fall in 'love' with the conquering rapist who just killed their husband, expecting male morality and love from them is silly.

            [–]panzerbier[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

            I recall the old story about Rome's founding. They had no women so they literally kidnapped some from a neighboring Sabine settlement. Some time later, the outraged Sabine army appears at Rome's gates. The women walk out and tell the Sabine men that the Romans are now their husbands and lovers, and they should make peace. Reading this story hurt.

            [–][deleted]  (2 children)

            [deleted]

            [–]DigitallyDisrupt 4 points5 points  (1 child)

            hamster hacking

            I don't remember seeing this phase before, if not a thing, should be a thing.

            [–]Forcetobereckonedwit 7 points8 points  (0 children)

            Oh, you can trust any future female companion, just trust them to behave like a female and you'll know what to expect. It may not be today or even soon if you're on top of your game, but someday, somewhere, she will tingle and betray. If you haven't strayed yourself by then; shame on you.

            [–]Red-Curious 2 points3 points  (1 child)

            She wasn't a "practicing Catholic." She's a "self-identified Catholic." This is, unfortunately, true of most self-professed religious people. Based on a study of over 400 regular church attenders, 18.65% of regular church-goers would meet a basic biblical standard of "saved." Most people in church think they're saved just because they go to church and participate, maybe even help as a volunteer every now and then, but they don't have a real relationship with Jesus.

            My guess is she's one of those people who participates and volunteers to make herself feel good and give some false reaffirmation, but she hasn't legit been transformed by God yet. If you had found one of the 18.65%, my guess is that your experience would likely have been different (depending on how mature in her faith such a girl would be) - not that the woman herself would be any different (AWALT), but that (at least from my view, take it or leave it) God tends to step in and protect those who pursue him from succumbing to temptation like this. She'd want to, but she would be convicted and stop herself.

            [–]askmrcia 2 points3 points  (0 children)

            She wasn't a "practicing Catholic." She's a "self-identified Catholic." This is, unfortunately, true of most self-professed religious people

            This comment x100. Everyone is doing this shit. They call themselves whatever religion, but don't practice it at all.

            Ok not whatever religion, its usually the Christians, Muslims and Catholics in the West that does this shit. Every chick that claims they are Christian or Catholic acts no different then an atheist. They still drink and sleep around and party on weekends.

            My guess is she's one of those people who participates and volunteers to make herself feel good and give some false reaffirmation, but she hasn't legit been transformed by God yet.

            Yup, its mostly so they can perceive themselves as good people. And usually its to the parents and adults.

            [–]Streik23 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            Oh boy... If only this wans't a non personal information disclosure area... I destroyed more than 10 relationships xd

            [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            Man that sucks. We only have ourselves on this world. Forget friends, loves, whatever. And never count on others to make you complete.

            I think the modern problem is most men hope they will find their equal, a woman with same sense of purpose, drive and honor to co create a life and family. But then shit like this happens and even if you win its shit.

            PS: just recently broke up with same type of child pushing gf. Never been comfier.

            [–]TheOriginalWasBetter 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            Don't confuse low quality women with high quality women. Yes, sounds like you're improving, she could have chose to cheat with another guy but she chose you so obviously she found you attractive, but if it wasn't you it would have been another guy because she's a low quality woman with no values. Women cheating is all about their own lack of values, not you. If a guy is a loser then a quality women will end the relationship, or never enter one in the first place, but she won't cheat.

            [–]BobbyPeru 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            Catholic smatholic.

            Means nothing in this day and age for most people. I'm not religious, but from what I observe, a lot of people who identify their self with a religion are just trying to better their image. The ones who are really "practicing" don't feel a need to promote it. Practicing is the reward in and of itself.

            [–]pawoukcz 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            I had LTR with girl from very religious family...desptite she always talking about honesty and how she wants to have family and wedding with me she fucked some rich fat dude on a boat...Iam always amazed how a lot of people here think that religious girl will have hypergamy under control...just watch arabic states that girls there still fuck other dudes despite the dead penalty....nature does not care about honesty,religion..nature wants breeding

            [–]shakespeareSMG 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            Love--as culturally defined in America--has little to do with sex and relationships. People call it love but it really is a combination of factors on the women's side:

            (But can often be felt by the man)

            Loyalty

            Dedication to raising children

            Someway of convincing herself she loves her husband when in fact this is a mechanism to compensate for guilt or convince herself to believe in fairy tales.

            Sentimentality and emotions

            Implied in these ideas is that it would be more trouble to make life-changes than, say, have an affair.

            [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

            "Catholic" and "Catholic but..." seem the same, but are very, very different.

            Her religion has been "catholic but approaching strangers with chances of cheating".

            [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (4 children)

            Most women won't abandon ship the moment a better male wants to have sex with her. But if that better male is willing to date us and commit...we're out within few weeks,all of us.

            Don't hate us for it.Be the better man.

            Religion? No girl truly believes that. Like trying to impose communism on a cat.

            Also: don't judge so hard...men abandon ship just as much,they just feel worse about it...still,they do leave. HB9 who is sexual and nice with a strong girl game can divorce 10 guys within a few months.

            There is no male-female loyalty.And that isn't a tragedy. Grow out of it.

            [–]panzerbier[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

            Lol @ imposing communism on a cat. :)

            Yes, the only productive thing going forward is just accepting that this is how the world is, and then working with it. It's basically market economy, if I make myself a hot commodity, I'll have lots of buyers.

            But please, let a guy grieve the loss of an ideal ;)

            [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

            Exactly. Hot commodity=high demand

            In a way,that is the perfect ideal.Because it always puts YOU in a place of power.Be it a woman or a man.You are in charge of how hot of a commodity you are.

            And then you don't need loyalty to save you.Or any other social construct that you rely on instead of sharpening your own abilities.

            [–]Juk9876 0 points1 point  (4 children)

            She isn't a practicing Catholic and that is obvious from this story, since on practice she is approaching man outside her marriage and this is incongruent to Catholicism, so she is a non-practicing Catholic. She is in mortal sin. Now about the story itself, yes, we are all fucked up sinners that sin like her in many occasions, and I am glad that Catholicism recognizes that and give a workable way to salvation, unless most new-age bullshit that says things like there is no sin, you're perfect, etc. No, we are not. We are screwed and only God incarnate can help us.

            [–]Dragon_Garoo 3 points4 points  (0 children)

            oh, PUH LEEZ. Even in the age of chivalry, which was heavily Christian/Catholic... how many bastard offspring were there?

            LOL. AWALT.

            [–][deleted]  (2 children)

            [deleted]

              [–]Juk9876 1 point2 points  (1 child)

              I agree. I also came from a Catholic family that was not really practicing much, and most catholics who attend only sunday mass are like that. Only after my real conversion at 32 years (after 18 yers of atheism) old I became really a practicing Catholic and we are the minority.

              [–]1ozaku7 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              You ever believed that marriage has this magical spell that makes the partner forever loyal to the other and makes you happily ever after? None of your relationships has a guarantee. Not through marriage, not through labels of BF/GF, not even friendships. It is based on what you give to them and what you get out of it, and how long one or the other is content with the relationship.

              [–]BurnYourFlag 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              Get over it. Im sick of posts about how women are so bad, get over it. This is food for the neurotic narcissist who would rather blame women then improve themselves. Don't get married, workout at the gym.

              Fuck women, fuck everybody else you should be so focused on how to improve your own life you barely think about other people.

              [–]unspecifiedthreat 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              Do most people on here never socialize? I don't see why some of these concepts are so difficult to internalize. Hypergamy being one of the easiest to understand imho.

              [–]Andgelyo 0 points1 point  (1 child)

              Welcome to The Red Pill, where everything you were led to believe is thrown out the window. I'm not a natural chad, but I've gotten girls numbers who had boyfriends and had girls(with boyfriends) approach me before. Really makes you question if you should ever settle down and get married.

              [–]panzerbier[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              For me marriage is out of the question. Bet half my shit that a woman is going to be loyal to me until death do us part? Haha no, I literally have better chances playing Black on roulette in a Vegas casino using that money.

              [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              Packing on muscle is a big red pill when women start treating you totally differently.

              [–]--Edog-- 0 points1 point  (1 child)

              For a few years, at every menial job I had (around 19-21 years old), a married woman working there would come on to me. At one place the owner's married daughter would literally flirt agresively with me right in front of her mom. My dad cheated on my mom and it was the end of their marriage, so I never wanted to be a part of causing that kind of shit show for someone else's family. But it taught me a lot about how loyal married women are. Not too much. Even the ones that acted like they haf the perfect marriage/family/Christian values etc. For some women, that stuff all goes out the window when something gives them the tingles.

              [–]1scissor_me_timbers00 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              My parents were devout Mormon, and my mom was devout enough to never cheat. But holy fuck did she have a shitty attitude at home that my dad had to put up with. Put on a sweet Mormon face at church, but was a typical bitchy woman a good chunk of the time at home. Goes to show that even if you have a woman religious enough to not cheat, she still is not desirable. She will have a terrible attitude instead.

              [–]1scissor_me_timbers00 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              Not all religious women will act like that, but they damn sure will still be thinking negatively about their husband in that situation, even if not acting in it. But yeah the implications for us are still the same. Do you want to be the schlub whose woman disdains him, even in the best case scenario where she's religious enough to not cheat? Of course not. Gotta be hard driving for superiority.

              [–]neurosissss -1 points0 points  (0 children)

              "I know one of you Chads would have fucked her"

              LOL at you believing there's any "Chads" in this place :D

              [–]bossmanishere 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              Don't fuck the married girl her husband will find out and things will get messy, trust me I know...

              [–]blackedoutfast -1 points0 points  (0 children)

              yeah marriage by itself is pretty meaningless. but don't attribute too much of this just to your physique and appearance.

              last night a married woman was blowing up my phone, sending me nudes, telling me how much she missed me and couldn't wait to see me again, etc. her husband is taller than me, has a better physique than me, and makes more money than me. but none of that is enough to keep his wife loyal.

              "she's not yours, it's just your turn" / AWALT