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Field ReportThe MORE you give, the LESS you get (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by [deleted]

Here on TRP, we like to talk a lot about the “Alpha Fucks” vs. “Beta Bucks” mentality that separates men from one another in the dating world. But why do we have this dichotomy? The answer might be simpler than you think. In fact, it boils down to one simple question: How much are you giving them?

To illustrate this point, there are two friends of mine who perfectly demonstrate how this one question separates the “Alpha Fucks” from the "Beta Bucks”. We will call them Guy #1 and Guy #2

Guy #1 is unemployed, on probation, has no car and sleeps on the floor of his friend’s apartment. His prospects for a brighter future are close to nonexistent, with his best case scenario being that he does not end up in prison.

Guy #2 has a stable white collar job, plenty of potential for upward mobility at work, a strong moral code, all kinds of talents and is incredibly dependable in almost any situation.

Both of them hit the gym regularly, are both considered attractive by mainstream society, and yet at the end of the day one does significantly better than the other with women (hint: it’s not the one who logically speaking should be doing better). Why is that?

That’s where the question of “how much are you giving them?” comes in.

Guy #1 recently met a girl who said she thought he was really attractive, but that she had a boyfriend who was dying of cancer. He didn’t really say anything about it, and blew her off. She kept sending him aggressively flirty texts, and inviting him to do things. Every once in a while he would agree to spend maybe 5 minutes of his time with her. When he would, he would say “I’m not interested in you, you have a boyfriend.” He gave the bare minimum investment of his time and spent no money on her.

Eventually, it got to the point where she broke down. She told him that her boyfriend wasn’t actually dying of cancer, that he might be gay and that she would ditch him in a heartbeat for guy #1. The two of them did it in a nearby forest, and he then said he had no interest in being in a relationship with her because she was a slut. Once a cheater, always a cheater. She was flustered beyond belief, but was so attracted to him that she kept inviting him to do stuff.

One day, she asked him for drinks. He told her “I can’t drive and I have $10 left in my bank account, I can’t afford it.” To which she replied “I’ll pick you up and pay for your drinks .” She did, then proceeded to spend $110 on drinks USING HER BOYFRIEND’S CREDIT CARD.

Her Beta provider boyfriend was LITERALLY providing her money to use on another man.

Side note: if my girlfriend EVER had a charge on my credit card for $110, I would drop her ass immediately. Why he even gave her his credit card is beyond me. But that’s a different analysis for a different day.

This dynamic with Guy #1 and this girl continues to this day, and what has he given her throughout the course of this? Jack. Fucking. Shit. Yet, she keeps coming back to him for more, and gives him more of her time and boyfriend’s money to him. She is literally Hooked on A Feeling.

Guy #2 met a girl a little while back who was single and found him to be very attractive. At first, he wasn’t very invested in it, she was blowing up his phone, and they were sleeping together regularly. She even told him at one point “let’s just be friends”. He ignored her, she started blowing up his phone again and they were sleeping together again.

But after spending a bit more time with her, he told me he really liked her and wanted to be in a relationship with her, despite there being potential that she could be leaving the country in a certain period of time.

Nevertheless, he persisted as if they were going to start dating. He would pay for her meals, her drinks, and more. He would compliment her, say really nice/sweet things, and gave her all kinds of time and money. He would bail on plans to go to the gym with me just because she wanted to grab dinner around the time we were supposed to be lifting. One night, he left the bar we were at instantly because she called him.

Everything that mainstream culture says guys should do for women, he did those things.

How did that turn out?

Well, within roughly a month (maybe less), she started to pull away and eventually gave guy #2 the official “let’s just be friends” talk. That was it for this dynamic.

These two examples stick out to me, but I also see this happen all of the time in my life. Girls who I ignore/give very little time to will do anything to get my attention. The ones I lend a lot of my time to ditch me at the drop of a hat.

Which leads me to my overarching point:

The MORE you give, the LESS you get


[–]Full-Time_Lurker 152 points153 points  (21 children)

Not the full picture here. its PUSH, PULL. Not withhold withhold withhold. PUSH. then PULL. Give. Then don't give a fuck. That's how you keep them coming back. That's how an actual functioning relationship continues to work.

[–]UncleChido 16 points17 points  (0 children)

This makes so much sense. I would work more in this department.

[–]Fryguy48 8 points9 points  (12 children)

Could you explain the push-pull a little more?

[–]cashthedon 35 points36 points  (10 children)

Basically you show them attention(Push) while maintaining frame, then you suddenly stop showing them this attention (Pull) and become detached. It is very effective and it keeps her chasing you.

[–]eckersley 25 points26 points  (1 child)

Hy. You reversed the order here. Showing attention is PULLING her to you. NGAF and withholding it is PUSHING her away fr you

[–]CoulombGauge 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is a pretty minute detail to comment over, especially when he understood the core concept quite clearly.

[–]Fryguy48 6 points7 points  (7 children)

How does one distinguish how much to push and how much too pull? That's the part I'm struggling with.

[–]plokman 12 points13 points  (5 children)

In a post sex, established situation : Is she acting super comfortable and taking you for granted? Not initiating sex / giving attraction signals? Too much pull. Is she giving frequent and hard comfort tests? Too much push.

[–]Fryguy48 3 points4 points  (4 children)

So before the sex happens, it's more or less based on game?

[–]trtanon 13 points14 points  (3 children)

Back in the day when game was newer, one big realization was that a woman has to perceive you as higher social value than her to fuck you. It's quite literally impossible if she doesn't have this perception as you. The easy way is to have 1. innate social value like a celebrity (or her boss) or 2. preselection. But since hardly any of us have these we have to employ the 3. rapport break.

The best way to explain a rapport break is to remember a time someone made you feel like a bitch. Ever been talking to someone and it was flowing... and then they just turn away from you abruptly and start talking to someone else? Or maybe they even told you you're boring and walked off (had girls do this to me--shit stings). They broke rapport and you can feel it. Feels bad. But however we feel that as men, women feel it as being dominated and the result is sexual tension. This is why girls fuck assholes-- they honestly don't enjoy the sensation of being put down like most naturals do--everyone else it looks like the guy is a real piece of shit--but internally the woman is sexually turned on this dude that's higher value than her.

Anyway, Mystery made a bunch of routines to rapport break women. "Push/pull" was a way to quickly break rapport without making it too mean or harsh. One of his famous routines is the physical push/pull. You put your arm around the girl and pull her into you and say "ok, ok, that's all you get" and push her away. Then pull her back in and say "OK, seriously, that's the last one you get tonight". You can just keep doing it if she's smiling or laughing. It's fun.

Magic Bullets is probably the best book there is and it explains all of this incredibly well. It's a re-master of Mystery Method without all his dumb magic horse shit and 7 hour rule.

[–]Fryguy48 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I really appreciate the time you took to write that out. I gotta look into that.

[–]Frenetic_Zetetic 1 point2 points  (1 child)

The best way to explain a rapport break is to remember a time someone made you feel like a bitch. Ever been talking to someone and it was flowing... and then they just turn away from you abruptly and start talking to someone else? Or maybe they even told you you're boring and walked off (had girls do this to me--shit stings). They broke rapport and you can feel it. Feels bad. But however we feel that as men, women feel it as being dominated and the result is sexual tension. This is why girls fuck assholes-- they honestly don't enjoy the sensation of being put down like most naturals do--everyone else it looks like the guy is a real piece of shit--but internally the woman is sexually turned on this dude that's higher value than her.

This actually makes a TON of sense, and sort of provided an epiphany-like moment just now. Thank you for this comment, brother.

[–]trtanon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I shot for pussy whisperer and landed on autist whisperer.

[–]new24-5 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Remindme! 2 days "see if anyone replied to this question"

[–]jeromeantoinecarter 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Pull their hair back, Push their head down...

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 4 points5 points  (1 child)

This is exactly it. It's give then takeaway. It's both. It's teasing her with what you give, then terrifying her with your absence (after she's invested).

You need value, attraction, comfort and fear-of-loss-of-investment to create deep attraction in a woman. Let's not forget the value and attraction components.

[–]forbesno1 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Exactly. This doesn't work in a vaccum. If you're ignoring a model who's never talked to you, she won't be blowing up your phone any time soon.

[–]red_matrix 1 point2 points  (0 children)

When in doubt follow the golden ratio (Fibonacci) Push Push Pull

[–]swiftp 3 points4 points  (2 children)

And you synchronize this with their menstrual cycle so that you pull away the hardest in their proliferative phase

[–]leviathan51 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Too much thinking about a bitch.

[–]red_matrix 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Rollo has a good write up on hitting her ovulation cycle just right and driving by her crazy. It's on YouTube as well.

[–]FlyGuwop 336 points337 points  (1 child)

“She can’t get rid of you if she’s chasing you”

[–]CreatedItJust2Saythi 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Women should not give you reasons to lose your friendship, they should give you reasons to earn your friendship. One shouldn't be able to destroy what never was built.

Scarcity increases value.

[–]BewareTheOldMan 99 points100 points  (4 children)

TRP confirmed - yet again.

Women are not doing themselves any favors by being this shallow, transparent, and contradicting their own declarations and lamentations of wanting the "Nice Guy" and caterwauling, whining, and complaining about the lack of a Good Man in their life.

Let's call this...the "Inverse-Investment Theory" - less effort to women results in better output/outcomes for men.

Damn you TRP - you're making women look bad. Who are we kidding? Many women do this to themselves...

[–]NorthEasternNomad 70 points71 points  (2 children)

Women mistakenly see the "don't give a shit" mentality of their "bad boys" as confidence, and read it (incorrectly) as strength and fortitude. They think these guys act the way they do, Because they are strong, confident and sure, while the truth is that they do not, in fact, actually give a shit.

It's only when they realize this through hardship that they go crying to friend-zoned emotional tampons who they use for stand-ins between Chads.

[–]Frenetic_Zetetic 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Women mistakenly see the "don't give a shit" mentality of their "bad boys" as confidence, and read it (incorrectly) as strength and fortitude.

This is the truth behind the truth. Well said.

[–]dancingmaus 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Bad boys do give a lot of fucks and are the biggest losers of all.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Women are not doing themselves any favors by being this shallow, transparent, and contradicting their own declarations and lamentations of wanting the "Nice Guy" and caterwauling, whining, and complaining about the lack of a Good Man in their life.

Ah, but they don't have any choice.

Let's call this...the "Inverse-Investment Theory" - less effort to women results in better output/outcomes for men.

Yup. As a man you learn to care less, give less and get more (because providing kills attraction). Once you're on the right side of this dynamic, you aren't going to go back.

And hence my comment above about them having no choice: she's trying to stem the tide of male awareness of male value, in order to try and get the result she needs... and that biological clock clicks loud as she hits 30. Remember none of this is her fault.

at some level she's trying to defend her privileged entitled position. The "no good men" complaint is virtue signalling, responsibility-pushing and whiteknight-baiting to try and fight against her own devaluation as she switches from the CC to BB at exactly the same time as other women her age are doing the same thing and just as men are waking the fuck up.

The hypocrisy you see is her trying to maximise her simultaneous BB and AF results. What else can she do, admit she's a used up ho who is trying to lock down a beta so she can divorce him later? It's way too late for honesty in her life.

[–]Ivetakenthepill 135 points136 points  (4 children)

It's fucking absurd but it's the truth.

Good news is you can be both Guy #1 and Guy #2. Guy #1 succeeds because he truly doesn't give a fuck. It makes no difference that he doesn't have any money and sleeps on the floor, which is ridiculous, it's his attitude and his frame. True and authentic DGAF is the cheat code to life.

Guy #2, is a needy billy beta pussy. It isn't easy to avert, it takes being fucking broken, experience and practice to really see how little affect your romantic and giving gestures. It sometimes takes a relationship crumbling before you can sit and look back and see the correlation of you becoming more invested and her drying up. Every single fucking time. It might as well be added to the natural law's of the universe.

Ultimately this is a good thing. The more you invest only in yourself, the more quality pussy you get, and you don't need to be out of jail sleeping on floors.

There's really no negative here.

[–]RedPlanetMan 31 points32 points  (2 children)

I think on a primal level, guy #1 has means of acquiring resources and is never really in a position to lose those resources. Guy #2 is more open to giving away what he has, which although altruistic, does not bode well in case of emergencies or whatever.

Given that most of us live in rich first world countries, it is easy to fall into the delusion that giving away resources is a logical means of personal survival (I.e., to make friends and be accepted). That however is only a veneer that exists so long as things continue to go as planned.

The second the needle drops and poo hits the fan, guy #1 will have an uncanny ability to survive while guy #2 will probably be taken advantage of or worse, killed for resources which he obviously has, given his extravagant sharing, as soon as he runs into someone he wants to impress. Everything guy #2 is doing works so long as society does. But even then, it's not a fool-proof plan.

[–]Nitsujsith 5 points6 points  (1 child)

this was a really good explanation

[–]RedPlanetMan 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Thanks, glad to hear that. I feel I can say confidently that I've was guy #2 most of my life, growing up with a single mom and a twin sister, I learned everything I shouldn't have, and I had to play a role (provider, even on a lesser scale) that wasn't mine to play out.

It's taken years to unlearn most of these things and even still, habit is a hassle. Hanging out with my dad later on in life definitely has helped, doing stuff we missed out on when I was young but it too has been a lesson.

I guess he was a total chad all his life but, though I love him, I can't ignore the fact that he missed out on the majority of his kids childhood and is still single, banging like crazy, but single. I love the red pill for how different it was to everything I knew early on but it too can be dangerous. Balance is absolutely essential.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

From the story, it seems that Guy#2 was more beta than Guy#1. Doesn't the alpha and beta attitude also depend on the people you are dealing with. I agree that Guy#2 probably got oneitis about a girl he didn't give a fuck about. The other girl already seems like not a girlfriend material as she was already cheating on her boyfriend and was a slut. And no dude in his right mind would want to be exclusively with her. She displayed she is not trustworthy. And for winning that trust she keeps on showering #1 with sex and money. Despite AWALT, the second one was not actively cheating and showed guy#2 a great time. Plus we don't know about the attractiveness of the two.

I am particularly interested in a scenario of what happens when the girl and guy pairing is exchanged.

[–]NorthEasternNomad 65 points66 points  (6 children)

Woman are conditioned - or maybe even hard wired, or both - to Take. Your protection and Security, from an evolutionary standpoint. Your money, from a modern societal survival standpoint. Your time and attention, to secure these other goals and minimize your exposure to potential rivals. As such - and this is the Crux - women only really want, what they do not HAVE.

Between the evolutionary need to OBTAIN protection from men - and the subsequent NEED to secure, and hold, their attention in order to guarantee it - and the societal conditioning of rampant consumerism, women are all but born Takers.

As such, if they're into you, but don't feel they HAVE you...they will chase. To consume your time and attention. To "obtain" you. Conversely, if a woman ever feels as if she "has" you (I'm so glad you're mine) she WILL lose interest.

Women want to acquire. They want to "get" your time and attention. To win it away from others. Only by getting what they don't have, are they really satisfied.

Never let them feel like they have you. Even in an LTR, maintain your own space. Do your own thing. Keep distance between you. I've begun doing this, and it has turned my asexual, dead bedroom partner into an in-heat Cougar who can't keep her hands off of me for more than a day or two.

Let them chase you. Let them "acquire" your time and attention perpetually. It seems cruel, but I really believe they like feeling as if they were able to "obtain" you.

[–]1dongpal 27 points28 points  (3 children)

Isnt this a simple dopamine thing?

You act uninterested, they do something, you act interested, their brain releases dopamine because they accomplished something. They get hooked.

If she doesnt have to do anything to make you interested in her because you always are, there is no need for action and thus no reason for dopamine release and thus no hook.

[–]NorthEasternNomad 4 points5 points  (0 children)

That could be. It really could.

I read somewhere that mobile games hook mostly middle age women. That's definitely a Dopamine thing. So, yeah...maybe...

[–]Mwoods342 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Maybe like a form of operant conditioning? some form of reinforcement?

Then are you saying that your interest acts as a class of punishment that makes her actions of interest diminish?

[–]1dongpal 0 points1 point  (0 children)

reward good behavior, but no bad behavior

[–]Luckyluke23 1 point2 points  (0 children)

dude! this is really helpful and I got a lot from it. it should be the top comment.

thanks.

[–]hustlejayjay85 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Tl;dr // LTR was truly in love with me. Spent too much time with LTR. Reacted to her moods, No space to do my own thing, LTR slowely lost attraction. -----

100% true. New here. I found the sub AFTER my LTR, but knew about self development, and knew very little of social dynamics. (Very much still BP)

The first 2 weeks I was with my this girl (HB7) she was ready for me to move-in, to give me her other car (I was having car trouble), and was truly in love with me. Things were off. I knew I shouldn't have spend so much time with her. However, the sex was the best I'd ever had. Even though I would try to spend time on other things, or with friends. I would go there just about every night. Had amazing sex and/or great BJ etc..

After 3.5 months, by then she was objecting everything I said, I would argue back with her, you know, everything Anti-Red-Pill. The last 2 weeks we were together sex was few and far between. I'm pretty sure we were both cheating on each other.. so on, and so on. Although a lot went on inbetween. I had that feeling in my gut it was over.

Had I knew about some of this thinking and strategies I would've been able to save the relationship. Put time/space between us more often, not react to her jabs and wanting to start arguements. Made her keep chasing me.

Thanks to this sub, I'm learning more, regaining confidence, building my life up, having fun with no LTR in mind.

[–]Slam42 34 points35 points  (10 children)

I fucked up so hard with this the other day. Was at a convention and met a girl who was pretty much the queen of the rave scene. We hit it off really well, but she always kinda had entourages of guys. Later on I bought her a few trinkets. One was something she really fucking cared about and even made her cry, but the next was way excessive and she thought I was just showing it to her.

Don't know what the fuck was going through my mind. Still way too beta even though I've been working so hard at the gym for the past year.

I just want to fucking yell

[–]RobertTene 26 points27 points  (0 children)

QUEEN of the rave scene?

The pedastal dude. Get her outta there. For the love of christ!

[–]professor_mcamateur 7 points8 points  (6 children)

be all like, oh i thought u knew i have 3 other girlfriends at this event. i want u to know ur speshul.

[–]new24-5 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Ummm, even though that sounds crazy but it might work on the mentality of me to give less a fuck to the situation and the girl.

Thanks

[–]professor_mcamateur 1 point2 points  (2 children)

like dont go out and do it in the first place, but if you do then don't make a big deal of it - play it off with a laugh. and probaly ignore for a week after unless she reaches out

[–]new24-5 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Thank you. I'll post the results if it went well with this girl from my college.

Even if it didn't though no worries;there is a lot of women i can meet ;) (mentality checked)

[–]professor_mcamateur 1 point2 points  (0 children)

oh idk personally i would only say that shit while its playing out not days later... coz then she mite actually check the facts its one of those little lies just start with one other girl lol idk man.

doing something maybe is better than nothing, most of the time - maybe. break a leg

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

[removed]

    [–]professor_mcamateur -1 points0 points  (0 children)

    who said anything about fucking?

    and i said speshul not special

    [–]Geleemann 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    just a standard rave thot, no queens my boy

    [–]mymuse100 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Dude I met a cannibis model and lightning in a bottle. I'm the "king" of the scene 18+ festivals/events in a year all paid for thru work. In fact she loves hippy festivals so much she wants me to show her.

    [–]1ozaku7 38 points39 points  (4 children)

    You are pulling two extremes here by considering that both girls are the exactly same girl. That's like comparing a Ford with a Pontiac...

    Simpy, the first girl is a slut who just fucks around because she has a boyfriend she lost interest in but hangs around because of comfort (finances, living standard). And she wants to do this with some guy who doesn't really have anything to lose and doesn't give a shit in general. The less drama the guy will cause, the more attractive he is to her, since those beggar bluepills will shower her with emotions and attention, which is not the "I want to get fucked right" they are looking for, since everything else is something their boyfriend is already providing. Besides that, she's probably mentally unstable.

    The second chick sounds more mentally stable and doesn't go cheating on her boyfriend as easily as the first one. Probably Guy 2 started all this drama with feelings that the first didn't and she felt like she was losing more time on him than she wanted, hence stopping it by calling it "friends", but was attracted as soon as he started to ignore her and that freed up some time for her.

    It's generally, if you want to repel a woman, take all of her time away. If you want to attract, give her slightly less of your attention than she wants. Of everything too much is not good.

    So chill, don't spread too much stupid shit like this, because you don't know how it is to be a woman that is showered with male attention without ever asking for it. Men are like jobs. Those offering themselves and giving everything to sell themselves are probably the shittiest jobs out there, the desperate ones. The really god jobs are those that give a glimpse of what you can get and people standing in line to apply.

    [–]Fryguy48 13 points14 points  (1 child)

    Good analogy. It's easy to forget that men are like birds and women are like trappers. Woman want the bird that is strong and free, not the hurt bird crawling toward them that want to be caged.

    [–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

    Agreed. The overall message is good but there are too many generalizations with the players. It's like that askReddit post yesterday about slutty behavior - everyone assumes the persons telling their stories are attractive.

    For the most part, I don't want anything to do with the first girl in this post. Even though AWALT and are capable of fucking some loser in the woods, this girl does not meet any minimum threshold of sanity or sanitization. Don't stick your dick in crazy. If you sleep on someone's floor and this girl is hounding you, it's probably because she's nuts and is fucking other losers on the side. She'll give you an STD or kill you.

    Just stick to demonstrating high SMV: don't be needy, be successful, understand bio-psychology and work on yourself.

    [–]MTNSC1 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    I know this is so stupid...but what you gonna do...you have to get your confirmation bias somehow.

    Frankly, the first chick is obviously fucking crazy....low SMV and desperate for any reasonable male to fuck because that is her past time..slutting around the neighborhood fucking random dudes behind the back of the dude at home.

    The second is more fairly normal but Op leaves out tons of the actual dynamics of the LJBF...dude might be a lousy fuck, might be boring as fuck, maybe she found a better dude, or there just wasn't any fucking chemistry, etc. She moved on.

    [–]1ozaku7 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    This is exactly what I mean. The entire dynamic that the TRP base seems to run on is that there is a woman destined for them, somewhere out there, and fail to accept the idea that they suck so much that women are rather single than with them, because being alone takes less energy than dealing with some boring loser.

    [–]RedPill_Swinger 8 points9 points  (0 children)

    Until you find out that there's no satisfaction/fulfillment/happiness in all of that. I've witnessed the same too and know how to handle the dynamic but it will lead you to nihilism.

    The best option is a "competitive" relationship, nearing 50-50 but slightly in men's favor, let's say 51-49 so it gives you the chance to develop yourself further and is emotionally healthy. There might be times in which you'll be more invested but it shouldn't be regular.

    [–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

    Addendum:

    The more VALUE you give the more you get*

    The more supplication/approval seeking you give the less you get*

    [–]zephixleer 24 points25 points  (4 children)

    I'm calling bullshit on this one. Sorry. No woman worth a shit does this. If guy #2 was fat and not giving her orgasms, sure. But you're claiming these guys are the same, other than what they give her.

    TRP needs to make up its mind. Either women are in it for the money, security, and 10 inch cock or they're not.

    One day, I see people posting here claiming women want security, an alpha male, and will cheat on a beta bluepill for better dick. On the other, I see shit like this claiming that guy #1 is the "alpha" male and gets the pussy just because he isn't giving her anything? Please. Maybe AWALT, sure, but the truly high-value women aren't trashy as fuck just for the sake of falling into some "the more you give, the less you get" theory.

    Maybe the ones you're lending all your time to ditch you at the drop of a hat because you're shallow and bitter?

    If you really want to be a man, get women you like, and feel whole, then act like a man by showing a woman you're a leader. These bullshit theory-posts do nothing for TRP but mislead people that need honest guidance for a better life.

    If you're just trying to bang barely legal collage thots, maybe these bullshit theories apply, but if you want fulfillment in life and any kind of fruitful advancement beyond just banging, then you're approaching women wrong, thinking like OP.

    You can be a gentleman without being bluepill. You can even -gasp- pay for things if you value the girl enough. Let her pay next time. Make sure she understands where you're at and where it's headed, sure. But don't think for a second that giving absolutely nothing and being the pathetic loser described as "guy #1" in OP is getting you anywhere but diagnosed with herpes and going to prison for failure to pay the child support you're going to end up with. The kind of low value women that guy attracts aren't what a real man should be looking for. Those girls are dumb.

    [–]L0st_sail0r 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    Low key one of the best comments in TRP history, although OP does have a point if taken as hyperbolic

    [–]Frenetic_Zetetic 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    You start to see the binary reasoning in TRP (and all communities, honestly) as nothing but proof that a large portion of the audience doesn't understand/accept the nuances of this shit.

    Everyone wants fuck-by-numbers guides on getting laid. Experience, motherfuckers. Stop reading these boards and go fuck up and learn for yourself instead. Experience is all that matters. Everything you currently have doubts/uncertainties about clear up via first-hand experiential learning.

    [–]RivenHalf -1 points0 points  (0 children)

    They're all sluts, stop deluding yourself

    [–]VickVaseline 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    You can't make this shit up.

    [–]Helpcalculus 16 points17 points  (2 children)

    I'd like to add a clarification to this. You can't really derive that idea from only 2 examples.

    I always thought my buddy was a natural. He gets laid every week. Never works outs. Has basically minimum wage job.

    His game is mainly shit (Kino being an exception). Compliments girls every 10 minutes. Pays for their drinks. Shit like that. But he still gets laid all the time.

    Throughout this journey, I've realized that it's all about numbers. If you have average looks/money/status/game, you can always get laid simply by flirting with everyone with tits.

    [–]Senior Contributordr_warlock 32 points33 points  (1 child)

    When a guy says he or someone else does okay for himself sex wise, I dont doubt anything. When someone says they or somebody else has sex every week , especially with no game, no money, and does all the typical beta things, I wanna see the quality. I doubt its anything worth bragging about.

    [–]djh860 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    People like things that are exclusive and hard to get or rare.

    [–]Morningsun92 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    A girl pretending her bf has cancer is a big old red flag

    [–]LotBuilder 13 points14 points  (3 children)

    I really like TRP and this sub but the try hard stuff gets old and repetitive. Yeah, you can be a dirtbag and bang dirtbag chicks. Some of them will even be attractive. As a rule top tier women run away from dirtbags.

    If we want to strive to be at our peak that means associating with women who are also in the top 5%. Being Tiger Woods and banging IHOP waitresses is embarrassing. Contrary to one off stories, top tier women don’t bang losers in the bushes or drive them around and buy them drinks. If a “top tier” woman is falling for any of that she will shortly be in rehab or diagnosed with BPD.

    [–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    "As a rule top tier women run away from dirtbags."

    Cope

    [–][deleted]  (1 child)

    [removed]

      [–]LotBuilder 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Yes, it’s primal, but top tier people, men and women, generally don’t even put themselves in a position to be interacting with the unwashed masses. The top 5% guy isn’t even in a position to interact with a trashy hot hairdresser with a GED. The top tier woman doesn’t have any reason to interact with the unemployed loser friend mentioned above. They still want their version of bad boys and bad girls, but it will be a higher caliber of person. The bad boy may be a tennis pro or personal trainer rather than an unemployed dirtbag. For the guys it may be his clients receptionist, personal assistant or waitress at a nicer restaurant... not unemployed trailer trash.

      [–]xeroblaze0 5 points6 points  (0 children)

      "The MORE you give, the LESS you get"

      I disagree, both examples are about frame control. But to rephrase your point more accurately, at some point you get diminishing returns on what you give, whether time or money. This applies to a lot of life in general, not just people.

      [–]YimzyTM 5 points6 points  (0 children)

      Good subject, interestingly enough its always kind of obvious when someone was originally a blue pill now conforming to a red pill.

      I break it down for myself simple like this.

      You meet girl. Things go well. Continue kicking it w girl.

      Naturally girls are wired to attempt to control you 100%. If that goal is ever achieved they become bored and roll out.

      In the most ideal situation w a girl u wanna keep long term you give them 60%. Keeping 40% for yourself.

      That being said depending on what type of girl u got atm etc you base your percentage off that.

      Each situation is unique but ya if your getting PLAYED, obviously no matter what u give ur gonna get shit in return.

      Stop being boring and obsessing w her and she wont get bored and play you.

      [–]warburgio 4 points5 points  (0 children)

      Her Beta provider boyfriend was LITERALLY providing her money to use on another man.

      This. Happened to me on more than one occasion. On of my favorite ex-plates flew across Europe to visit me, bought drinks, take-aways, cinema tickets etc. All using 'her' money coming from a joint account of her and her husband. Another one would drive me across countryside in her boyfriends car for 2-3 day trips. Their SO are just like pets or furniture to them. Steady cash flows, someone to pour emotional baggage on, safety net. All while I do really nasty stuff to them without really any investment on my side. i wish i went redpill years ago.

      [–]GearGolemTMF 3 points4 points  (0 children)

      I’ve more or less experienced this twice in my life. My best friend and first girl friend broke up with me in middle school and it broke my heart. He following year I ignored the hell out of her outside of one time on a camping trip where I shielded her from the rain and in ignoring her I found out after I’d changed schools that she wanted me back. Now as adults, I barely initiate conversations with her giving her the bare minimum and always being called a stranger rather than her leaving me alone she still comes back to get fucked and no real effort was put in at all.

      The other girl I was blue pill as hell toward when we interacted with each other. After accepting TRP into my life and other circumstances caused me to cut her off, I was better off. I went out with some friends about two weeks ago and while walking past the bar in a club, she was there and noticed me. I followed my buddy ignoring her and she didn’t take it to well acting as if I didn’t see her. We went to another bar around the corner and for some reason she pops up again 20 minutes later. This is the same girl who disrespected me for no reason despite having zero reason to. I can only imagine how another encounter might wind up.

      As weird as it is, it for some reason works. And is attractive.

      [–]Kobe_curry24 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Story is too funny I’m broke I only have 10 dollars to my name lol

      [–]Mwoods342 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Good Post OP, I really enjoyed reading this.

      Real request: does anyone think they know Psychology well enough to explain why this happened in both scenarios. Like Ive read the side bar, and as a reason brained male. I still dont get this, and I dont understand how the whole world, my mom, disney, and anything with estrogen has tried to brain wash me into thinking the opposite of reality... Anyone, I will pay you with upvotes and admiration.

      [–]DeathToDadBod 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Long winded way of using commandment five of the sixteen commandments of poon by Heartiste.

      [–]zeussingh 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      The underlying concept is very psychological and simple. The more you invest the harder it is for you to move away from that investment. I think it's also called the slot machine syndrome.

      Plus it requires admitting that you made a mistake. Your mind and ego are surprisingly against it, and convinces you to stay.

      [–]Lambdal7 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      This sounds like a bit of a corny dream of an alpha bad boy, but kee in mind that ignoring her only works if she's very interested.

      It isn't the silver bullet, where you just ignore a girl and then she's head over heels for you. That's not how it works.

      Push and pull is how it works. Make some effort, inspire hope, ignore a little. rinse and repeat.

      [–]Shaman6624 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Unless you see working on yourself and not giving a fuck as the best thing you can give her. She doesn't want a man that doesn't have a life and orbits her stop giving her what she doesn't want. Start giving her and all the other women in the world what they really want. A man that doesn't need them.

      [–]grewapair 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      There's a far more realistic explanation. To get there, you have to agree on two things.

      1. A good looking guy has life on easy mode.

      2. People who aren't good looking learn to compensate for that in other ways.

      So guy #1 is good looking and everything gets handed to him, so he figures, "why bother working for anything?" He can easily get women who won't care he doesn't have anything. As for everything else, other people will give it to him, so why bother working?

      Guy #2 realizes no one pays him any attention based on his looks, so he has learned to compensate by being successful and attentive. People still treat him poorly, because looks are pretty much everything in this life, but he scrapes by on his other assets.

      OP's post is about on the same level as women who say "Confidence is the most attractive feature a man can have." No you moron, attractive men develop confidence when they can walk into a club and pull just about anyone home, and women throw themselves at them all day long. So you have associated that level of confidence with attractive men, when you have cause and effect reversed.

      Getting back to the subject at hand, OP has cause an effect reversed. Guy #1 learned he didn't have to give, guy #2 learned he had no chance unless he did. Will guy #2 suddenly become more successful with women by giving less? It depends on how you define success. Women learn to be opportunistic: they want someone good looking, but while they are waiting for him to come around, some of them will seize an opportunity to use an eager guy. So guy #2 is Mr. Right Now, and he will get those women, but they'll treat him badly. If he stops providing, he'll get almost no one because even the opportunistic ones will not pick him. On the other hand, he'll finally stop getting women who only want to use him, which is pretty much all he's ever going to get.

      By the way, how do you prove to someone you're an eager guy: be unattractive but then do something fairly time consuming or costly to prove to women how hard you are trying. The women looking to use a guy will see that as their cue that you are an easy mark.

      [–]2CasaDeFranco 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Absolutely, the biggest eye opener was plates telling me they just went on a date before they come over for sex.

      This guy wines and dines her. Last Friday night I was in an Uber home with a plate and in the silence she confesses the following.

      "I just had a date". "Did he get a kiss? Tell him I said hi". "Haha, no. I don't kiss on the first date".

      This was a woman that I plated after a coffee. I'll write up a FR on this woman as it was somewhat textbook in alpha / beta bucks dynamics.

      [–]redpilledcuck 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Truth. I gave my girlfriend too much investment and now she won't let me fuck her in the ass. Why should she? She got what she wanted without spreading dem cheeks.

      [–]red_matrix 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      The best relationship I ever had was when I treated my ex like crap, but I also really liked her deep down and when I was affectionate it melted her. She wanted me to commit and I said no, it killed me but I never broke and it make her want to fuck me more and more. At the time I didn't know what was happening or why, it was Red Pill 101.

      [–]RivenHalf 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      [–]miller211 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Why would you want to spend time with needy bitches blowing up your phone anyway?

      [–]chrisname 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      If comments were food, the comments in this thread would be grapefruit. Salted grapefruit.

      [–]tempolaca 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      I always ignored my LTR, not on purpose but I'm a single father and very busy.

      She was dieing for me, loved me completely. This went on for a couple years. Last week I helped her on a proyect she needed done. Now she won't return my texts, for no reason at all, and relationship is basically over. Go figure. Plate crashed.

      [–]Alpha_Jedi -1 points0 points  (1 child)

      To quote 300: "Give them nothing; but take from them everything."

      [–][deleted]  (3 children)

      [deleted]

      [–]Ivetakenthepill 2 points3 points  (1 child)

      Why are you whining about things you have control over? Where is the desire for change? Victim mentality won't get you very far here.