Red Pill TheoryCase Study: Beta Diagnosis and Treatment Plan (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by untitled1


There was a "Rant/Venting" post here this morning submitted by a medical student complaining about his beta-ness and asking for help. Predictably, it was deleted for being posted in the wrong sub. However, I thought it might be instructive to other new users to analyze his post to see where he's coming up short and what concrete actions he could take to improve. Hopefully this will be helpful to others who are working on their sexual strategy.

The Original Post

Going off of memory, here are the main points of our Beta Boy's rant:

  • 22 years old, 5'7", medical student, virgin
  • Says he lifts, dresses well, and smells nice, but still can't get laid
  • Thought that being in medical school would automatically make him high-value, but he is constantly outshone by "natural alphas"
  • Goes to every social function he can, but always feels like the most boring person there
  • All of his conversations fizzle out after asking "Where are you from?" and "How are you liking it here?"
  • Says he is already lifting and has already read all the sidebar material, so he just doesn't know where to go from here

Useful Follow-Up Questions

I'm not convinced he's giving us the full story (hamstering), so ideally we would want to ask some questions in order to refine our diagnosis:

  1. It's great that you're lifting! That is the biggest piece of advice given here, so you're off to a great start! What program are you following? How often do you go to the gym? Are you going regularly?
  2. Are you happy with your physique? Be honest. Are you skinny and scrawny? Are you fat and lumpy? Are you skinny-fat? Have you noticed any changes since you started?
  3. What other hobbies do you have? Studying and lifting don't count.

The Action Plan:

The post was deleted before I could ask those questions, so we'll just move forward with a few assumptions.

Most of the replies in the original thread were generic, feel-good, or not exceptionally helpful. Let's see if we can come up with a to-do list of actions he can implement in order to get him out of this rut.

1: Follow a workout program

Again, it's awesome that you're hitting the gym and lifting weights. It's great for your looks, great for your confidence, and great for your manly hormones. But honestly, a lot of guys say they're working hard at the gym when really they're just spinning their wheels.

The most important thing about going to the gym is to have a program and follow it regularly. Guys here love to debate strength training versus body building, but it really doesn't matter which program you choose. You just want to make sure your program meets a couple criteria:

  1. It's balanced (upper vs. lower, front vs. back, push vs. pull)
  2. It's progressive (ie it gets harder as you get stronger)
  3. You're actually following it and doing it regularly

Most popular programs on the internet will meet these basic criteria. Just pick one that looks like fun and do it regularly. Don't try to make your own program unless you really know what you're doing.

Posture: The only other thing I would add is to make sure you're doing exercises to improve your posture. This could be deadlifts, pendelay rows, face pulls, or non-weighted exercises you find on youtube. Especially at your height, this will make you look taller and more alpha. In a world where everyone is hunched over all the time, standing tall with your shoulders back will make you stand out.

TODO: Keep lifting weights, but make sure you're following and established routine and doing it with regularity

TODO: Make sure you're incorporating exercises that improve your posture

2: Refine your diet

Lifting weights doesn't mean a whole lot if your diet sucks. If you wanna fuck bitches, you better look sexy, and diet is 80% of the equation. If you're fat, eat less. If you're skinny, eat more. If you really focus on improving your physique through diet and lifting, you'll be astounded how differently people treat you as a result. Women will want you, men will respect you, and people will be nicer to you wherever you go. The fact that you're not successful makes me think you're slacking in one of these areas.

TODO: Examine your physique and adjust your diet accordingly.

3: Get at least one hobby

I know that school and studying and going to the gym and being social already take up a ton of your time. But ideally you should have at least one hobby outside of that. Video games, watching TV, and reading books doesn't count. Ideally it should be a hobby that involves other people. It doesn't necessarily have to involve women, but it could.

Remember how you said that you feel like a boring person at parties, and you have trouble holding a conversation? Well, if you don't have any interesting hobbies, then you ARE boring. If all you do is study, lift, and watch netflix, then of course you don't have anything to talk about.

TODO: Get a hobby that involves people. You're on a school campus; that shouldn't be difficult.

4: Learn how to hold a conversation

Google "conversation threading" and click on the first link that comes up. It should give you a seddit post that looks like this:

Conversation Threading is essentially the ability to make a free-flowing conversation. If someone gives you a thread like "I went to Paris last summer to Study at the local university," you have many, many directions you could thread the conversation. You could ask if they liked Paris, which school they went to, what they study, or you could shift the focus of the conversation, you could respond with "Really? I went to Paris last year," or "I like to travel, as well" [Which is a great way to build rapport through shared experiences!]

Read the whole thing.

Here's an exercise I like: every time you're in a checkout lane, chat up the cashier. You don't have to find the sexiest girl there; you're just doing this to practice conversing. And you don't have to worry about making a fool out of yourself; the person will be nice to you because it's literally their job.

If it's towards the beginning of the week, ask, "Did you do anything fun this weekend?" If it's towards the end of the week, ask, "Do you have any fun plans for this weekend?" Use their response to create a thread. Pick out something they said and ask a question about it, or relate information about yourself in a way that establishes rapport.

This is also a good opportunity to practice things like eye contact and smiling. This is an important skill to have, not just for picking up women, but for networking, making a good impression at work, and succeeding in the world in general.

After you're comfortable with checkout people, level up to people who are not paid to be nice to you. Practice conversation threading with the people in line with you, or with the person sitting next to you in class.

5: Have a clear idea of your value and what you bring to the table

This comes from a cracked.com article titled "6 Harsh Truths That Will Make You a Better Person." Read the article.

The harsh truth is, people only care about you because of what you can provide. Girls just wanna have fun. So if you want to spend time with a girl, you have to be fun. You have to be able to add some sort of value to her life.

Being a doctor might bring out the gold-diggers, but it doesn't make you an interesting person. Talking about pancreatic cancer doesn't make women wet.

So quick, think of five specific things that make you unique, interesting, fun to be around, or at least different from every other guy out there.

I might say, "I'm good-looking, I'm a great fuck, I ride a badass motorcycle, I give great massages, I make awesome pizza and chocolate chip cookies."

And this has helped me attract women. Girls love new experiences, and riding on the back of a motorcycle gives them the thrill of a new experience. Girls like to feel my muscles and tell me how they feel safe around me. I make girls cum so hard they think about me the rest of the week and can't wait for more. Cooking shows that I can work with my hands and I'm not a man-child. These are all things that add value to their lives and make them want to be around me.

(I actually explicitly list these things in my tinder profile, and I will get messages from girls who want to go for a ride, or want a massage, or want to come over and taste my cookies.)

So what makes you interesting? What value do you give to people around you? What makes people want to hang out with you? If you can't immediately list five things, then you have work to do.

TODO: List five things that demonstrate value. If you can't do that, then get to work.


If I were coaching this guy, this is the advice I would give. It's a basic overview of sexual strategy in practical form, and hopefully it can act as a trouble-shooting guide for others who feel stuck. He supposedly has read all the sidebar material, so the challenge was to come up with actionable things he can do to move forward.

What would you suggest for him or others like him?

And for newbies reading this post, I would emphasize two points:

  1. Theory is fine; practice is better. The best way to improve is to focus on practical changes and actions. The sidebar is great, but reading a bunch of theory to "change your mindset" doesn't amount to much. Take action. DO THINGS differently.
  2. This is not just for getting laid. This is life advice. You probably don't just suck with women, you suck with people and at life. If you're a doormat to women, you're probably a doormat to your friends and coworkers too. Being attractive, being able to hold a conversation, being interesting and giving value, maintaining frame and establishing boundaries - these aren't just things that get you laid. Developing these skills will improve all aspect of your life.

[–]Maxim_6996 44 points45 points  (8 children)

There is a big difference between lifting and lifting properly

[–][deleted]  (7 children)


    [–]Maxim_6996 6 points7 points  (1 child)

    I can't really understand how you have been lifting seriously for 4 years and haven't made any progress, maybe it's your diet. Google the push pull legs split.

    [–]Youngyoda89 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    He believes he’s lifting seriously but he isn’t educated.

    [–]Auwardamn 2 points3 points  (3 children)

    Almost certainly aren’t eating enough.

    You should be putting 3000 calories away at the least if you want to gain weight.

    [–]Maxim_6996 0 points1 point  (2 children)

    It depends really. I would be fat AF if I did that. 2000 is more than enough to me

    [–]Auwardamn 3 points4 points  (1 child)

    Your idle caloric burn rate is probably 2000 calories. If you aren’t eating at least 500 calories more than that, you can’t expect to gain any weight.

    Add in the fact that working out burns more calories you need to eat 500 more calories than what you are actively burning.

    3000 is pretty much the minimum for most people looking to actually gain weight.

    [–]KinkysMT 13 points14 points  (0 children)

    This guy just need game.. Flirting, push pull and phisicality.

    [–]Senior Contributor: "The Court Jester"GayLubeOil 23 points24 points  (8 children)

    The issue main issue with the archetype of dudes your describing is that they are nuance retarded. It doesn’t matter what workout you give him because he’s just gunna do it like the face down in the phone cucks. Regardless of what you tell him to say to a woman he is going to say it like a faggot. In other words regardless of the what you give him he’s gunna fuck it up with his how.

    That’s why all of the “it’s easy just do X” advice doesn’t work on these hard cases.

    The saving grace here is that because he’s a doctor he can just use his “show me your herpes filled vagina” voice that he uses on Medicaid Mexicans onto tinder sluts.

    He already has an alpha frame by virtue of his job so he just needs to apply it instead of developing one from scratch.

    [–]untitled1[S] 28 points29 points  (5 children)

    He already has an alpha frame by virtue of his job so he just needs to apply it

    Becoming a doctor won't give him an alpha frame, it will just paint a betabux bull's eye on his back and he'll fall for the first post-wall gold digger that gives him the slightest bit of attention.

    regardless of the what you give him he’s gunna fuck it up with his how.

    Of course he is, that's the whole point of the post. Bro says he lifts, but he still can't get laid. Tries to be social, but he's still too boring to keep anybody around. Claims he read the sidebar but still can't apply it. Obviously there's some sort of missing link.

    It's like if a 500 pound obeast came to you for personal training saying he can't lose weight. Are you just going to tell him, "lol fat faggot cuck, too lazy to understand what i say, just get used to being a fat fuck"? My experience is these people can get dramatic results from simple changes because of the fact that they're so far gone. You don't have to put them on a six day bro split, track their macros, and have them do HIIT. Just tell them to stop drinking soda and go for a ten minute walk. That simple, attainable, actionable advice is enough to get the ball rolling and lose the first hundred pounds.

    The sub is supposed to be a "Discussion of sexual strategy in a culture increasingly lacking a positive identity for men." The sexual strategy you suggest doesn't seem very sound, and calling him a faggot cuck when he asks for help doesn't exactly provide a positive masculine identity for these lost men.

    [–]Senior Contributor: "The Court Jester"GayLubeOil 13 points14 points  (3 children)

    You cant function as a doctor without telling people to show you their penis. The psychological state where you command people to show you their gentalia is Alpha frame. He has it he has to apply it more broadly.

    So thats my positive advice right there.

    Next when your dealing with 500 pound obeast the problem is psychological mainly sugar addiction. they already know what the fuck they need to do, even though they pretend they dont.

    So the issue isnt providing them with information its giving them motivation. Every fat person knows why their fat. They just like hearing explinations because that makes them feel good without having to do anything. Freud calls this interpasivity.

    Finally if 'Faggot Cuck" triggers anyone here theyre too far gone and Red Pill cant help them

    [–]Endorsed Contributorex_addict_bro 4 points5 points  (1 child)

    Next when your dealing with 500 pound obeast the problem is psychological mainly sugar addiction. they already know what the fuck they need to do, even though they pretend they dont.

    You're trying to teach Aspies how not to Aspie. You're trying to make people "just get it" instead of following the lists, but the problem is, the lists are the only thing they can comprehend.

    When I started to wean myself off the booze, I made it my goal to blindly follow whatever magical thinking Bill W. and his merry men came up with. When I found TRP, I made it my goal to check off all the boxes in the alpha department. When I got my first personal trainer, I made it my goal to follow his diet and his program religiously. Etc.

    At some point it became clear that the goal is not about ticking all the boxes in whatever program I'm now on. At some point it became pretty obvious that I am... me. Not a very special snowflake, but not exactly someone who can be generalised whatsoever.

    At some point I started to understand social nuances, maybe it was one more post at TRP, maybe it was enough playing in the field, just maybe. I'm not exactly able to show a specific point in time.

    The deal is... some time ago when I posted some stuff, people in the comments wrote something about Asperger's syndrome and I had no clue what they were on about. Now when I read some posts, I click comments just to add a comment about OP being an Aspie and guess what, more often than not somebody already commented like that.

    My general idea is... I understand your idea of trying to turn people away from "check all the boxes in the alpha dept" and to be honest, I'm also tired of the "10 special ways to make yourself more alpha" posts... and I had enough of the subtle shaming about "real men does this and that".

    But I don't think you can turn Aspie into someone who "just gets it". Aspies are going to read your recipe and they will try to become "unAspie", they will try to click all the boxes in the "unAspie dept"... which is still far away from "just get it" dept.

    On the other hand, you do give some valuable examples, the one with the fat chick is on point. On the other hand... chances are your noble mission is far beyond the level of understanding of the average "TRP checkbox alpha" aka "The Aspie Pill".

    TL;DR: imagine you're big, bald and black, talking to a millennial, it would go like this:

    -- You take the red pill, you stay in wonderland and I'll show you how deep the rabbit hole goes...

    -- Are they gluten free?

    [–]Celicni 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    You're trying to teach Aspies how not to Aspie. You're trying to make people "just get it" instead of following the lists, but the problem is, the lists are the only thing they can comprehend.

    I want to point out how VITAL this is if anyone actually wants to teach someone not to be an aspie. Like, I was socially retarded, and had to read a whole fucking lot not to be. I couldn't "just get it". That is the "just be yourself" level of useless advice.

    Give em a checkbox, if they fill it out, eventually they may "get it" like I did, but no way to skip the checkbox part. We're socially retarded for a reason, it's like trying to teach someone integrals and derivatives without them knowing what the fuck multiplication and division are.

    [–]Pestilence1911 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    Lel. Not all fat people know their fat.

    My sister is a 280pd hambeast thats going to school to be a doctor, she keeps saying "healthy at every size"

    She has type II diabeetus now, and attacked me for being a trump supporter and reading the art of the deal out loud, not everyone can be saved. The cognitive dissonance on that girl is rediculous.

    [–]Avertus 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    This makes me think, do certain jobs evoke more an impression of beta bucks rather than alpha fucks unlike others?

    [–]clavabot 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    So in order to help Hard case newb's is to show and explain to them the how of the what, And the why?

    I.e Reading the sidebar,

    relevant youtube vids (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8iBLm9zARA)

    and EC posts regarding specific questions.

    [–]Iwannachokekatie 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    How would you fix a guy like this one who is not a doctor? Besides becoming a doctor, ofc.

    [–]Toxik6 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Saw the posts also. Solid advice.

    [–]Slipstream17X 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Excellent post. Thanks for putting it together.

    [–]tootaloo667 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    This guy knows what he is talking about. Great post