Why promiscuity reduces the odds of a woman being happy in her LTR (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by TopherOHoolihan

Relax ladies- you don’t necessarily have to be a virgin. But it helps...

EDIT: Motivation and background for writing since my credentials are in question (understandable given the gravity of my claim): studied the life sciences in my undergrad (physics chemistry biology kinesiology evolution social science). In upper years i focused on neuroscience, neuroanatomy and endocrinology. My research focused on multi sensory integration. As i was studying these topics, my understanding of reality was rapidly diverging from the narrative feminism was telling in society regarding promiscuity and many other topics. I began to look into feminism. I also intuitively felt that the life i was living, of partying and hooking up with strangers was not the most ideal way to live, but i was a teenager and impressing my friends with sexual conquests was important to me. I started to look into morality and discuss heavily with my religious friends and the ones studying religious courses. I also wanted to understand why I cared so much when my first love (who i dumped) fucked someone else. I rapidly started reading everything I could get my hands on regarding the relationship between the sexes, ranging from the optimisic philosophers like Osho, to the crude, blunt writings of modern red pillers. Below is a synthesis, presented in metaphorical form, of my abstracted wisdom. Although it may seem prescriptive (tells us how to live), I would never assume to know everything, and my learning is far from over.

A woman’s fertile body is literally the most valuable “material” on Earth. It provides the garden into which a man can plant his seed and literally carry on his lineage, which we all know is THE driving force behind evolution- gene propagation. Thus sex is the most chemically rewarding experience a man can undertake. A man‘s instinct while young is to plant his seed into as many fertile “gardens “as possible. Sex is hypothalamic and thus a primitive and ancient instinct. As he ages and his brain matures, as he develops higher level abstraction and reasoning abilities, his instincts shift more to the maintenance of one particular garden and to provide and protect the fruits of that garden. In colloquial terms, “he no longer thinks with his dick”. He now seeks to love a woman more holistically and not just for her body. This is why an older man can get satisfaction in raising a kid that isn’t his, he is at least satisfying that inclination. Some men of lower IQ or of poorer environmental guidance never stop “thinking with their dick”.

Now let’s shift to women. There’s three things men provide women- protection, provision and penis. When a woman is young, she just wants the best penis (aka best physical specimen) because this seed will produce the most beautiful fruits for her garden. Her fruits (children) will be attractive and thus invited to drop their seed into other gardens. If it’s a daughter she has, this is another beautiful garden capable of captivating men. She doesn’t know this consciously of course other than that she is attracted to “alphas”- physically superior men. This sexual strategy of reproducing based on physical superiority is primitive and not synchronistic with a modern, intellectual, civilized society. As a woman ages, her biology shifts from seeking the seed of an impressive physical specimen, towards the seed of someone who will provide and protect her garden, evidenced by the fact that the top of the hypergamy ladder is now rich men. When she’s matured and wizened, she’s better able to judge a high quality life partner and seed planter, which includes physical superiority as only a part of the package,superseded by ability to support and protect. As I will explain later though, if she spent her youth sleeping with impressive physical specimens, she will be chemically addicted to the validation/sex of those types of men, unable to holistically love the well rounded man she now knows is better for her. If she is 30 and hasn’t gotten a seed yet, she will do whatever it takes to get one because she knows instinctually her time for that is nearing it’s end. The problem is that even though she now knows in her mature wisdom what a better life long partner looks like, she wants the seed of those primitively superior men. However any man who is both primitively superior (physically) and modernly superior (intellectually) would never go for a promiscuous woman. So she is stuck seeking a “beta” for provision and an “alpha” for sex. Thus, if she spent her youth banging “high end” seed planters, then shell never be able to find a whole lover as she ages- someones who can satisfy all 3 needs to the best shes ever had in each domain. This will make her resent her protector and provider because he has control over the garden , he tends to it and yet she doesn’t even think he is worthy to plant his seed there. This is what she means by where are all the good men?- she means why cant i find a man whos the best provider/protector i ever had and who is the best lover I ever had-aka the best physical specimen.

When a woman saves her virginity for her provider, she has also allowed him to be her seed planter. That means he is the best provider she can get, and importantly, the best lover she ever had. By picking the best provider she can, she’ll never feel like she can do better provision wise, and she won’t have flashbacks to how much she missed chad because she never had him. Sex, especially orgasmic sex, releases estrogen and oxytocin synergistically in a woman, making her chemically addicted to lovers. Saving virginity keeps these chemical bonding systems intact and ensures that her current lover is her favourite lover and thus favourite source of that sexual high. Studies show that the more promiscuous she is, the more she craves alphas while ovulating and providers while not. If the provider is her best lover, she is happy with him all the time, not just while not ovulating. This allows her to be satisfied with him in all 3 capacities and thus see him as a steward worth having dominion over her garden.

Let’s talk about what male attention and sex means to a woman and how her fathers love impacts what she seeks from men. This will clear up why he must be the best in all 3 domains for her to be happy and why some virgins cheat while some non virgins don’t. It’s important for a father to let her explore her craving for male validation, but protect her from it’s negative forms. She has a beautiful gift to show the world and it would be a shame to deny her that. If he doesn’t let her associate with men at all when shes young, or show off her beauty at all, then she will learn to get it by deceiving daddy. She will see the provider types as controlling and abusive, like her father, so rebels by fucking the primitively superior types. They are the only ones providing that positive male attention she wants. She learned early on that she can’t be honest with daddy because he’s too punitive, so she must sneak in what she wants behind his back. These are the virgins who “shockingly” end up cheating. They learned that instead of telling their boyfriend or husband what they want, which is more positive attention, they need to get it behind his back. They also tend to pick men who are excessively controlling like their fathers, and all controlling men know they ultimately are betrayed by these girls they seek to control. This is why many muslims report that girls in Niqab their whole life end up cheating on their husband. These are the “good girls gone wild”- they just can’t help but fuck around behind daddy’s back. These are the girls who seek daddy figures in their romantic life. Guys who have dealt with these girls know they are the biggest cheaters and are cool with it because they think father figures are oppressive anyways.

Now the opposite dysfunction- If the father was weak/absent and shes free to explore and seek validation at her own leisure, she will find she gains it by being slutty. But primitively superior men do not commit, so she learns and believes that male validation is fleeting and temporary- all men will leave her eventually, just like dad (who also was likely one of these fuck and chuck men). Her mom will thus corroborate her claim that men are trash, having lived through it. These are the girls who let their boyfriends treat them like garbage and don’t leave because they are scared of being abandoned. As soon as one relationship ends, they need to jump onto another dick or they feel incomplete. These are the instagram validation whores. Male attention is literally a drug for girls, with sex being the strongest dose because its the ultimate validation- its saying hey im willing to give up my seed, aka my life force to you. Women are programmed to value themselves based on how they are viewed by the masculine, and it’s up to daddy to show her what this should look like. Look at the satisfaction on a girl’s face when she makes you cum. They love that- it validates that yes their beauty can make the world turn. This is why they pair bond so strongly to men, especially their first “dealer”. They are hooked on his “love”. But girls without fathers to show them proper treatment don’t know what healthy attention looks like. As she sleeps with more and more, she becomes addicted to getting validation from more and more, constantly seeking out the love of degenerate but physically gifted men. So if she marries a provider who yes, rationally is a great choice, but can’t do for her what chad did, she really doesn’t give a shit about his validation and shell never respect him as her true leader and source of confidence. He would some how have to be an amazing provider and also an amazing physical specimen better than chad to have a chance at keeping her happy. But the problem is she’s addicted to validation and inherently insecure, so she would cheat even on this 10 as soon as he’s gone for too long. She would demand his attention far too much, and shit test far too often that any man of value would never put up with this- leaving her stuck with a doormat provider whom she cheats on. She expects good men to leave, so she over shit tests and creates a self fulfilling prophecy. These are the types of women who don’t trust men of competence- the real daddies of society. Because they experienced a weak masculine as a child, they are forced to developed their own masculine side meaning they usually end up being feminists, angry for having to be the man in their own life and secretly craving to be put in their place and let out their feminine. They repress this desire of the feminine, and refuse to submit to men.

So what is the healthy way to get validation? Don’t forget that men are the sun and women the moon. Psychology tells us that men get validation internally and women from society. Women only shine when men are looking at them with admiration is the point. The way that men act reflects onto the women. When men make materialism their God- pussy and money- women reflect this by seeking validation through their body. After all, the men are obsessed with it so using her body is her ticket to male approval. But when we worship something greater than ourselves, something perhaps that we could be, she will seek our approval by doing things that support us to that destination. For example, a father who is passionate about the pursuit of knowledge and shows the right balance between love and discipline to his daughter, will inspire her to seek his approval by pursuing knowledge. Remember, if he is oppressive and overly forceful about it, she will rebel and hate what he does and who he is. She will do the opposite. If he is patient and lets her explore, but stops her from exploring too far into dangerous waters, she will feel secure and free at the same time and will stay by his side. She will listen to him with open ears and heart. The boys she wants approval from as she hits adolescence will be like her dad and will treat her fairly. (P.s a father’s presence alone delays puberty in a woman, so he’s already stopping the promiscuity without doing anything). So yes she doesn’t need to be a virgin when you get her, but a proper LTR girl will only have been with max 3 guys before you because for her, the courtship process is long and drawn out. And when she is alone, she is not desperate to jump into bed with whoever gives her positive attention. Don’t forget though, she is still a hypergamous creature. If you want her to be happiest with you and not long for one of her exes, you need to be the best she’s ever had in all 3 domains. This is much much easier when she was not promiscuous.

I would like to add some implications of what I just said:

Men and woman should not have sex until they are settled into their adult lives. I know this sounds like insanity, but really this is just the premise of saving sex till marriage. This is a debatable point but having sex prior to proper brain development is like picking your career when you are 15. A parent needs to let a child explore wacky options (as a father should let her daughter meet those wild boys) but a wise parent won’t let their child throw away their future over a bad choice. A girl who chooses her lover at 15 has just picked who she will pair bond to the strongest, and this is irreversible. Is one partner going to screw up the system? Probably not. But research shows if she has over 3 lovers prior to her LTR then she is much more likely to divorce. Once a person’s brain is fully developed, a man has reached his best ability to produce and provide and a woman has reached an age where she’s mature enough to seek a man of value, and not a degenerate seed spreader. Sex is primitive and limbic- its our animal (infantilized) sides coming out. Thinking with your dick means shutting off your rational centers and letting your animal brain speak. Until our brain is fully developed (between 22-27) we are not able to best know how to manage that animal side.

Men with femdom fetishes grew up in a smothering garden. This tyranny of the garden caused him to not resolve his oedipal affiliation with the garden. Our mother is our first love, she is the garden we first feel at home in. But as a man hits puberty, his instinct tells him to leave the garden and find another. Boys are literally programmed to give attitude to their mom, just like girls are programmed to go seek a different provider and thus rebel against their dad. These femdom seeking boys often had mothers who really either obsessed over them and over nurtured them, or disciplined them too strongly and abused them. If they we’re heavily nurtured, this love does tremendous benefits for a man’s cognitive development as well as his confidence which is why so many men with femdom fetishes become high up in society. However it also results in him not being able to trust himself as the leader of a relationship and to discipline and regulate himself. He constantly seeks mother’s discipline and reassurance for his successes. This makes him more emotional in relationships and craving of worship/servitude towards a woman(typically the feminine imperative). So these guys become successful, but often become simps or cuckolds in relationships, being too emotionally weak and dependent. If he was physically dominated by his mom, his brain assumes the feminine is very aggressive and thus the only way to conquer is to be hyper-masculine. These femdom seeking men tend to be very dominant and controlling in their affairs. These are the 50 shades type guys and they also become successful because of that hypermasculinity. Meanwhile that unresolved oedipal complex is craving mommy’s discipline. -note- there is a dichotomy between submissive men who like to worship and submissive men who are masochists. The more on the cruel, punitive side mothers love was, the more of a masochist he will be. If she was very loving and nurturing, he will seek more of the worshipping, serving type of femdom.

The girls with absent fathers feel unworthy of love and have a genuine fear of offering themselves to loving men. These are the types to hurt a good man because they don’t believe in good men. They have problems offering themselves fully to one man .

A girl with a daddy domme fetish is the girl who experienced an overly strong masculine presence while developing. These are the types to lie about being a virgin because early on they learned that that telling the truth just further angers the masculine.

All of these oedipal issues must be overcome in order to have loving sex.

A girl with a firm but loving dad (balance between proper discipline and proper allowance for exploration) will trust the masculine and so she will respect daddy figures in society. She will see degenerate men for what they are- degenerate seed planters unfit for her garden because they will plant and go (bust and move, chuck and fuck).

An astute reader may have noticed, that the problems regarding promiscuity start when the intellectuals of society lose direction and vision for their society, when the masculine can no longer be trusted upon to lead, but this is a discussion for another time...

[–]BowlOfMoldySoup 257 points258 points  (54 children)

men and woman should not have sex until they are settled into their adult lives. I know this sounds like insanity, but really this is just the premise of saving sex till marriage.

This is not insane, but wise.

[–]tempolaca 223 points224 points  (33 children)

This is not insane, but wise.

A lot of crazy religious mandates turned out to be not crazy after all eh. Seems that thousands of years of trial/error works after all.

[–]preworkoutandsteak 127 points128 points  (18 children)

But here's why it doesn't work with the religious crazies is nowadays:

A couple of generations ago, we didn't have this phenomenon of teenagers (I strongly suggest you do the research on how that word even came about... In short, it was a purposeful marketing strategy).

When kids got to be about 12, they started being treated like adults. Not all the way, because they still have a lot to learn, but they had more responsibility and more respect.

And even up until then, they were given age appropriate jobs and the kids took them seriously, but even looked forward to them.

So by the time they were old enough to begin marrying, somewhere between 15 and 18 (older for males though) they were ready.

And although people marry younger back then, they didn't marry at like 12 or 13 like people think they do nowadays. If you look at some of the well kept Health logs from back then, puberty started much later. The average menstrual cycle in the 1800's and earlier started at about 15. There is a lot in our environment, what we eat, things of that nature that cause it to happen earlier and earlier.

Back to the modern-day religious crazies. Not putting down religion in any way shape or form, I'm actually a very religious myself, but this is what I have observed being around other religious families.

They shelter their kids way too much. They keep them away from the outside world.

Puberty starts earlier. They get all of these urges. They are told that leaves urges are terrible. And then they are told to abstain and to wait till marriage.

Obviously, the world is going to come crashing in. Whether it be stealing romance novels from the local Goodwill so they can get their rocks off, sneaking access to the internet, whatever. It happens.

And this is where the waiting until marriage thing fails.

Somehow, it worked for my spouse and I. Even though my spouse and I both came from different spectrums of the background I described above. We waited until marriage, which was great, but there was definitely a lot of issues involved on both sides.

But it can be done. and even from a religious perspective it can be done.

It just has to be done right. It has to be their choice. It has to be their choice for the right reasons.

There isn't a whole lot we can do to stave of off early puberty except for what we currently know about it. You can take steps towards it, drinking raw milk instead of pasteurized milk and choosing hormone-free meat, those are big ones for females as far as studies go. It has been known to push puberty back from the common age of 9-10 years old to about 12, which definitely helps in terms of being able to emotionally handle it.

But as of right now I think it's very very uncommon to be able to push it back to its normal age of about 16.

And then there's the attitude around sex in general. Parents either treated like it's evil, or don't talk about it at. Some parents don't care. Some parents care too much. from personal experience, I feel like it's the parents that care too much and draw too much attention to it that may even create the spark of Interest in a negative way. They themselves are the Catalyst maybe even before the child truly has an understanding of their sexual interest.

There are so many factors. And it gives waiting until marriage a bad rep. And it stems from Fear based parenting on the religious end of it.

My advice:

If you are religious and you want your kids to wait until marriage, the way you react and talk about it is the number one factor.

When you're out and about and you see a woman dressed in a way you don't think is modest, the worst thing you could do when you catch your kids staring is cover their eyes and whisk them away. Talk about the reasons why people dress certain ways. Talk about how everyone deserves respect and to be given their privacy, whether or not they think they deserve it or not.

The best way to do this... Teach them to make eye contact. Not because the female figure is dirty, but because it was created special. These women don't know their value, they don't know how special they are. They are looking for attention. But they need their privacy. We teach our kids to look everyone in the eye and do not judge people by what they wear or what they don't wear.

A long time ago, people used to be around animals a lot more. Kids knew from the get-go what mating was. They knew the mechanics, they saw birth happen, and they knew what was up.

I'm not saying show your kids a whole bunch of weird creepy birthing videos on YouTube out of the blue. But being around farm animals and having their mother's birth at home, it was a normal event. They didn't sit around watching it like a sporting event, especially not the boys, but the older girls often assisted. Glasses of water, warm cloths, etc.

You can tell kids nowadays that leads to babies, and that birth is uncomfortable, but because the sexuality of the culture gets them so young, and way before parents even think to have talks about this with them, their perspective is skewed.

Rambling here, and I let my kids watch Disney, but here's a perfect example. Go watch The Little Mermaid or Moana. It's feminism bootcamp 101. Follow your heart, love is all there is, and it's okay to defy your parents for the bigger picture. You won't even get rewarded by them in the end! Notice how in Moana it's her grandmother and mother that encourage her to defy her father to go save her people.

Again, I have let my kids watch these, but while discussing it while it's going on. My four-year-old can point out feminist propaganda.

Look at how men are portrayed in every kids TV show, no matter how low budget. The dads are dumb and clumsy. The moms are smart and Savvy. And the kids are sneaky and no better than both of them.

It's a hard battle to win. And even if you do all the right things, or think that you do, you can't control the outcome.

TL;DR - crazy religious people shelter their kids too much and basically force them to seek out sex before marriage. Gives waiting until marriage a bad reputation. And Disney is a feminist training ground.

Sorry about the long post. I feel a certain type of way about this.

[–]trees_away 19 points20 points  (3 children)

Nah dude, you smacked this one out of the park. This deserves its on post IMO. As a guy raised very similarly as you and had had to peel off the religion without losing the truth behind it... This rings a lot of bells.

I’ve thought long and hard about how I am going to raise my daughters in regards to their sexuality. Thankfully, I think I’m going to be able to be a balanced father figure for them so hopefully they will neither have daddy issues nor be too curious about sex. I refuse to raise them with anything being taboo. I don’t want them growing up with unanswered curiosity, because I know where that leads. I bring them to the family-oriented nudist resort I’m a member of because I don’t want the human body to be a mystery to them. I want them to grow up thinking their body is normal and knowing what a penis looks like. And I’m doing my best to set an example of what it means to be a kick ass, high-value male so that their standards are gonna be so damn high for who they let in their pants. I give them plenty of affection, but also boundaries and sternness when needed. I’m going to talk openly with them about red pill concepts. I’m going to be honest with them about the nature of men and women. I’m going to tell them my opinion of why they should try to have a low n-count. I’m going to do my best to make sure they know their value and their worth so they aren’t just trying to find validation.

I hope it works. Damn man, my daughters growing up to be THOTs is scary.

[–]PerplexingPegasus_ 7 points8 points  (2 children)

The only criticism I have with your plan is the nudist resort.

Feminism tells women to embrace their body and expose it as “confidence”. I understand you’re trying to make the body and its reproductive organs normalized but feminism turns that into power and validation. That may turn into future exhibitionist behaviour. Besides that, good plan indeed.

[–]trees_away 5 points6 points  (1 child)

I think American are too prudish about nudity anyways, so why would that bother me?

[–]PerplexingPegasus_ 4 points5 points  (0 children)

They’re actually overtly sexualizing now. Being less revealing and vocalizing concealing up causes more outrage then being provocative.

Here’s an example with Nba superstar Stephen Curry wife, Ayesha Curry.

[–]FlamingAmmosexual 25 points26 points  (2 children)

It's feminism bootcamp 101.

What isn't these days?

I think Dick Masterson said it best when he joked that NSFW means Not Safe For Women. You see it everywhere in the news, media, and culture.

Bumble bans images of men holding guns? Guns are NSFW.

Women spend more and save less? 401Ks are obviously NSFW.

Women, who feminism told them they were just like men and could have it all, should work less hours to avoid burnout. The 40 hour workweek is NSFW.

It's everywhere. Once you open your eyes you realize just how much this poison has infected every nook and cranny.

[–]LandoChronus 13 points14 points  (1 child)

From the 401k one:

But there are more gaps at play: Women pay more for the debt they carry than men, and they don’t invest as much as men do.

Hooooooly shit. It still shocks me when some feminazi says something so blatantly pointing and spins it. "Women end up with less money in their lives, because they don't invest as much. Must be the PATRIARCHY!"

[–]tempolaca 4 points5 points  (0 children)

You forgot the best part: At the end, it says women need to be rewarded because they get more tired than men. Seriously.

[–]Incel9876 4 points5 points  (2 children)

And although people marry younger back then, they didn't marry at like 12 or 13 like people think they do nowadays.

Romeo and Juliet. Juliet was 13 and already being pressured to marry, because her mom had been and many other women were already mothers by then. ""By my count / I was your mother much upon these years / That you are now a maid," meaning that Lady Capulet had already given birth to Juliet at age thirteen, the age that Juliet currently is. Female + age 12 or older + puberty = married off ASAP.

[–]Dogebastian 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Note that the correct interpretation of Romeo and Juliet is as a cautionary tale for society from a Catholic perspective. It’s our modern blind spots that make us assume that it is a story that holds up their “love” as something positive. Two kids end up dead because the adults don’t have it together.

[–]tempolaca 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I just realized that at 40, I could be Juliet's grandfather.

[–]SiggiZeBear 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Found this really insightful.

[–]spistruth 4 points5 points  (1 child)

+1 for 'purposeful marketing strategy', for 'being around animals to learn about birthing' (paraphrasing), and for the feminist propoganda of DIsney.

But are you sure that puberty used to start later earlier? I do think (in the USA especially) there are certain hormones in the foods the masses consume that make them more sexual, especially girls. Make them develop bigger breasts and behinds and whatnot. But I'm not sure if puberty can actually shift in 200 years or so.

Also, looking at women is bad in many religious systems. If the mind is untrained, it aggravates it and lust arises. Brahmacharis (google the term) are forbidden to look at women unless absolutely necessary, and they train their whole lives to abstain from sex and sexual thoughts. An impression of a half naked lady's figure is not the best one to imprint/leave on the kid's mind.

[–]preworkoutandsteak 2 points3 points  (0 children)


This is one of the first places I found it mentioned, which led me to a link I have saved on my desktop computer that was a PDF of Public Health record of the time. I can't find it right the second, but when I do I will post it here.

It's interesting though, it did fluctuate up and down in years of famine as well.

[–]drallcom3 5 points6 points  (0 children)

But here's why it doesn't work with the religious crazies is nowadays:

It doesn't work because the only religious people left are the crazy ones. The moderate majority, they also kept the crazies in check, doesn't practice religion anymore.

[–]RaidenDark 2 points3 points  (0 children)

No one knows the insanity of religious folks as well as other religious folks.

Source: am also religious.

[–]DeChef2 3 points4 points  (0 children)

“My four-year-old can point out feminist propaganda.”

Brilliant!! As I chuckle and reread it for the fourth time.

[–]primetine 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Very interesting perspective. Thanks for sharing.

[–]Pwnk 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Exactly. Anyone who believes in evolution should understand that there is evolution in society, too, and that there is a reason that the aspects of society involving virginity etc. evolved the way they did.

[–]Endorsed ContributorKeffirLime 4 points5 points  (0 children)

That's social evolution.

Our natural desires are not dictated by this, in fact they are in conflict with it.

Our social evolution is not aligned with our biological evolution.

[–]Orbiter45 3 points4 points  (10 children)

They are time tested values, thats why they are "traditional"

[–]Endorsed ContributorJamesSkepp 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Times change, so should sexual strategies.

[–]iamtheswoop 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No! religion just got lucky, they were just incorporating something that was already instinctual to us.

[–]Joshua_Naterman 10 points11 points  (2 children)

I mean, it's all about how you want to train your mind to work... which just about none of us put much effort into when we're young.

These days both men AND women are taught that they should be free to pursue whatever attractions they want... and there's nothing wrong with that, but we don't put any effort into balancing that with the understanding that when this is not tempered by identifying whether or not you value a life-long and mutually beneficial relationship.

If you do, or you think you might at some point in the future, it's worth considering that you need to build that into your own interpersonal and sexual self-education.

I had a good friend, we'll call him B, who was a rampant womanizer. Nothing inherently wrong with that, he was never misleading about his intentions with his side pieces... but he really, really wanted to have a family with a solid relationship. He recognized that this was important to him, and that he didn't get any long-term satisfaction from continued new sexual partners anymore... but he was more or less addicted to the short-term gratification that such encounters provide.

We talked a lot about it, I remember one conversation in particular: "Bro I love my gf so much, I literally didn't cheat on her for almost a full year. A YEAR... i've never gone more than a month or two with anyone else. But it's happening again now, and I just don't know how to stay faithful."

This is a successful guy, came from a war-torn country in Eastern Europe during the '90s, smart, physically fit and a good fighter in combat sports, graduating in the realm of finance starting a solid job with good hours and good pay due to his hard work during internships, he's got pretty much everything. All he wants is to be good to his GF, marry her, and have it last.

My response was pretty simple: He is going to have to reprogram the way he thinks without losing what attracts her to him, which is 100% possible but will take a ton of work and will be a multi-year process. It's simple, but not easy... especially when you have trained yourself to be a hook-up machine.

What attracts her is pretty simple: he's in charge of his life, and it shows. He's not an ass per se, but he's confident and will give honest opinions... if she's doing something dumb, he'll tell her that doesn't make sense. He supports her in her endeavors but doesn't sacrifice his success for hers: they BOTH deserve effort, and in the end he's the one who will always be responsible for his bills no matter what because he can't leave himself.

The problem is that he's committed himself to the pleasures of the chase: there's no denying that it feels truly excellent to feel the moment that an attractive woman wants you, is actively drawn in to your approach and your personality. He's dedicated himself to mastering that, but has also dedicated himself to taking advantage of EVERY opportunity and following through to the end.

There's a point where you have to hang onto mastery but limit your execution to one, or a few, valuable women in your life.

For my part, it's just one because my wife is amazing and the value of our relationship far exceeds what I would ever be able to get out of multiple women regardless of their attractiveness or other qualities... but women are still attracted to me, and I'll still flirt for a little bit. However, I intentionally steer the interaction away from an execution pipeline at certain points because I'm honestly no longer interested in new women and the truth is that I have to be actively vigilant about not creating a situation that would compromise my personal values... I've had plenty of those transient experiences in the past, and they don't lead to a path that allows a solid family life which is ALSO something I value, and that I value MORE than the sequence of chase, capture, and release.

It took a lot of time to change my approach in my late 20's and early 30's, but the difference between myself and B was that I started my journey towards success with women in my early 20's with the continued intention of building a skill set that allowed me to obtain the woman I wanted when I finally ran into her... and keep her, without continuing to pursue other women.

My wife is unusually reasonable: she is well aware that other women are attracted to me, and she enjoys that because she knows that SHE's the one who gets to go to bed with me every night. She gets the security she wants, but she also feels like she has won a prize.

Done right, this actually enhances your value... but you have to select the right woman and you have to be very intentional about your approach and pay attention to maintenance of your interactions that generate attraction in the first place as you transition to an intentional monogamy.

That last bit is the part that most men completely fuck up, and it doesn't HAVE to be that way. Done right, the effort is worth it and your life is enhanced... but there are a lot of steps in-between, and a lot of women who just cannot be in a successful relationship like this at the time that you meet them.

I think that one of the MAJOR reasons why this community runs into so much pushback from the outside is that this path is never framed up to be what it really is, and typically doesn't end up being discussed on a regular basis.

Not all men, nor all women, place a high value on such a path, which is fine... but quite a few do, and I think that more discussions about the transition into a mutually beneficial monogomous relationship is an important area of discussion that is often missing here.

It's all about the continued development of one's own intrinsic value, and not being blind to the world around us that is full of attractive and interested alternatives: it is about teaching ourselves how to navigate this area successfully, find women who are ok with that, and let them decide for themselves whether they are ready to be with a desireable man who is intentionally choosing them over their other options.

Just my 2 cents. I don't expect to have a large impact.

[–]KidWonder101 2 points3 points  (0 children)

If nobody wants to take the 2 cents, I will. You speaking that real shit.

[–]1KyfhoMyoba 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Excellent explanation of Dread Game.

[–]poohead3 11 points12 points  (2 children)

You can't expect people to abstain from sex when they're sexually mature. Back in the good old days, young women (15-17) would be married off shortly after puberty to a matured mid-twenties man.

[–]BowlOfMoldySoup 12 points13 points  (0 children)

And thus, I don't expect everyone to be wise.

[–]AfricanBushDoctor 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Same goes for socially accepted drugs such as alcohol and Marijuana.

[–]Wielded1 22 points23 points  (5 children)

"degenerate seed spreader" LMAO, i was really keeping a straight face, but thats where i lost it.

[–]GLADmyNAMEaintDICK 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Nothing against it, but if you invest so much time in spreading seed, it seems unlikely you would be mentally and emotionally mature. In short, less of a man than one could be, and thus a degenerative version.

[–]Wielded1 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Today I woke and i was %3.4 more alpha go me

[–]majorbollocks[🍰] 86 points87 points  (24 children)

This makes a lot of sense from experience. I know it's contrary to TRP, but I have met women who just refuse to have sex outside of a committed relationship.

In fact, I find that the more I apply TRP principles the more broken and damaged women I attract. When I tone it down a bit and do more of an assertive nice guy vibe, I tend to get the good girls.

A few weeks ago I brought home a korean chick with amazing boobs but was super inexperienced in bed. Couldn't even suck dick properly. I played a bit longer game than usual with her just to see what happened. Not sure what to make of it though

[–]TFWyourWaifuDies 106 points107 points  (15 children)

In fact, I find that the more I apply TRP principles the more broken and damaged women I attract. When I tone it down a bit and do more of an assertive nice guy vibe, I tend to get the good girls.

This is the real red pill.

Shame that so many men bought into what they thought was the red pill, but in actuality was just pickup game.

[–]1StinkyDiaper 53 points54 points  (2 children)

Can confirm. I have a handsome best friend who applies redpill game all day. He attracts cute women, but there’s always something wrong with them.

[–]drbldmny 44 points45 points  (1 child)

promiscuous women are low value wow what a revelation

[–]BoilingBleach 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Not to sound too religions but AWALT means AWALT.

How many religious people end up in the same place as all the others, just with more stigma and leaving behind a live of self repression.

Religion is made to keep the matrix in place too. Don't forget that. The best genetic deal a woman can have is fuck an alpha and get a beta to take care of her. Or just somehow tame an alpha even if it's just for a while.

[–]Random_throwaway_000 17 points18 points  (0 children)

pickup game

Considering TRP is against marriage, that makes sense. It's been stated before that good girls don't plate themselves.

[–]3LiveAFTSOV 34 points35 points  (3 children)

Watch out, you're becoming aware.

Maybe the Red Pill isnt so red and things arent as they seem...

[–]HereToOffendIdiots 15 points16 points  (2 children)

To me, TRP is just about finding truth. Nothing more nothing less.

[–]3LiveAFTSOV 16 points17 points  (1 child)

That's all the pill is - truth.

Lower red pill is sexual truth.

Higher red pill is truth of any and all subjects

[–]HereToOffendIdiots 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Well said. Watching (and perhaps participating if we get the chance) where this will go from here will be a treat.

[–]Endorsed ContributorJamesSkepp 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Shame that so many men bought into what they thought was the red pill, but in actuality was just pickup game.

Also asking you /u/LiveAFTSOV :

If RP is not "just pickup game" what is it then?

[–]Endorsed ContributorKeffirLime 19 points20 points  (1 child)

but I have met women who just refuse to have sex outside of a committed relationship.

Women are the gatekeepers of sex, Men of commitment. Essentially she is dictating the terms, to go along with it is operating in her frame then. Eventually she'll have you washing the dishes and ironing the clothes.

For the right guy(high SMV) she will drop her panties.

I find that the more I apply TRP principles the more broken and damaged women I attract. When I tone it down a bit and do more of an assertive nice guy vibe, I tend to get the good girls.

When you apply TRP properly you attract all girls more, it's just the broken damaged that put out easier. If you wanted the "good girls" it simply takes a bit more time.

[–]viyacondios 1 point2 points  (3 children)

I agree. I'm in an LTR with a quality woman because at the start of dating, half blue pilled me tolerated things like her insistence after our first sleepover that we be sexually exclusive. If I was dating new women now I wouldn't agree to that, and thus my red pilled attitude would preclude the development of an LTR with a desirable woman.

On the flipside, being red pilled now is a key component in the ongoing success of our LTR.

[–]majorbollocks[🍰] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is interesting. I also agree that our behaviours tend to polarise people and they will exclude themselves based on what they will and will not accept. So if you push for fast sex, you tend to get women who put out fast but are horrible for LTRs, aka emotionally damaged women.

If you wait for sex, you'll get women who are more mentally stable that you can have good LTRs with. The trick is to wait for sex without being friendzoned. It's a really fine line.

Another thing I've experimented with: a girl who was definitely the cock carousel rider type who wanted to fuck but I made her wait. End result was that when we finally had sex, she appreciated the sex more and became one of the best behaved crazy chicks I've had as a fuckbuddy. And knowing how insane crazy chicks can be I guess that's saying a lot.

Bottom line I think that while it's true that men are the gatekeepers of commitment and women the gatekeepers of sex, it's also true that in general people tend to have more appreciation for things they have to fight for, and that includes women trying to get sex from men.

[–]Wolveryn 40 points41 points  (18 children)

I see your point, and I'd be interested to look at the numbers in terms of successful long term marriages for those 'No-sex-before-marriage' folk and their more promiscuious counterparts.

I'm very skeptical that saving sex for marriage leads to more happiness or a more successful marriage.

Especially for men.

[–]platoonpluto 17 points18 points  (1 child)

This subject was really interesting to me so I did a quick search.


  • Women with 10 or more partners were the most likely to divorce, but this only became true in recent years;

  • Women with 3-9 partners were less likely to divorce than women with 2 partners; and,

  • Women with 0-1 partners were the least likely to divorce.

Earlier research found that having multiple sex partners prior to marriage could lead to less happy marriages, and often increased the odds of divorce.

Sources: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nsfg/index.htm




[–]platoonpluto 41 points42 points  (7 children)

This subject was really interesting to me so I did a quick search.


  • Women with 10 or more partners were the most likely to divorce, but this only became true in recent years;

  • Women with 3-9 partners were less likely to divorce than women with 2 partners; and,

  • Women with 0-1 partners were the least likely to divorce.

Earlier research found that having multiple sex partners prior to marriage could lead to less happy marriages, and often increased the odds of divorce.

Sources: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nsfg/index.htm




[–]RedHoodhandles 18 points19 points  (1 child)

Isn't that sidebar material? At least this is discussed countless times in older threads. Decreased pair bonding ability via higher n-count is a well accepted fact in this community. So yes, N-count matters if you are inclined to have kids with a woman.

[–]Wolveryn 11 points12 points  (4 children)

Wow interesting, thanks for the info, I was surprised that 0-1 partners was the optimal number for marriage success... would have guessed like 3-4 partners as they’d have shopped around so to speak

[–]PJ_GRE 12 points13 points  (3 children)

You have to consider that having 0-1 partners raises the probability that you're a very conservative, religious or not very attractive. Which makes it probable that you won't be able or won't want to get another partner, which results in lower divorce rates.

Having +5 partners makes you attractive and capable with the opposite sex, meaning you have more opportunities, meaning more chance of divorce.

[–]TFWyourWaifuDies 16 points17 points  (1 child)

Logically it would make sense, especially since men who sleep around often have this idea of sex as being "just sex" and start to lose that ability to emotionally and psychologically bond with women. They begin to view women as discardable sex objects and build up a huge abundance mentality.

This isn't ideal whatsoever for LTR and marriage. These things require sacrifice and hard work.

It's quite similar to how it happens to women, but i do think the consequences are so much worse for women.

The problem here is that men have every incentive in the world not to divorce. Who wants to get divorce raped? And so even though they might not be emotionally bonded (or they used to ve but aren't anymore), they are legally bonded.

And so the stats won't be accurate at all.

[–]Ramp_Up_Then_Dump 5 points6 points  (0 children)

If you are only bonded by laws, not with emotion, isnt that a prison shaped of house?

[–]TopherOHoolihan[S] 20 points21 points  (3 children)

If it is forced upon her by an overbearing father who she doesn’t respect, then she will also not respect the man chosen for her and will cheat. Ultimately her suitor needs to be her choice, but her dad needs to guide her there gently, and at times, aggressively as he stops her from making a bad mistake. Her father must maintain the right balance between setting appropriate boundaries, and letting her push them. Too many boundaries and she will become claustrophobic and seek to rebel. Not enough boundaries and she will seek to create her own by finding a new “daddy”.

[–]HereToOffendIdiots 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I’m a father. So much of what you’re saying makes sense and it’s hitting me at the best possible moment.

Thank you so much for this and I will leave you with the obligatory, “I love this fucking subreddit.”

[–]TopherOHoolihan[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Congrats on being a father. It is the ultimate satisfaction for me to know that I am helping you. All the best

[–]redvelvet200 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The statistics show that virgin marriages are much less likely to lead to divorce than marriages with previously promiscuous partners. Look it up

[–]monadyne 40 points41 points  (5 children)

Thank you for your clarity and insights, and for the efficiency of your explanations.

Perhaps one of the reason that Western culture was so successful was because of the repressive social order that held sway until the Sexual Revolution brought about by the arrival of The Pill. While a woman's chastity was zealously guarded by her father, her brothers and uncles and all the rest of her clan, ---and the dire admonitions of The Church--- she was unwittingly kept in blissful ignorance about how good sex felt. Whatever sex her hubby provided her with was her de facto "gold standard" so she had little reason to stray outside of the marriage for better sex.

If she happened to fall in love with somebody other than her husband, that was a different story; but the appeal wasn't consciously sexual. And while looking at the handsome Captain of the Guard may have given her tingles, the penalties for infidelity were so huge as to, perhaps, not be worth the risk. Caught as an adulterer, Wifey could lose absolutely everything: family, social position, monetary support, and even her immortal soul. Modern wives just get a trip to divorce court where they get Hubby's house, half of Hubby's money, custody of and monetary support of the kids, etc. Plus, ExWifey doesn't walk around town with a scarlet letter on her forehead these days. She's a cheating whore, of course, but so is every other divorcee out there.

[–]TopherOHoolihan[S] 19 points20 points  (4 children)

it was my pleasure to write this. And i agree with you except I would add one thing- being penetrated releases oxytocin and estrogen synergistically in a woman so having sex with that chad guard is WAY WAY different than looking at him. Looking at him is like looking at a drug you never did before. Sure it might be tempting and she’s curious but she knows its bad for you so you don’t do it. Once she had a hit and she now chemically experienced it, shell always compare it to the drug she has at home, her husband.

[–][deleted]  (3 children)


    [–]TopherOHoolihan[S] 16 points17 points  (1 child)

    Yup. This is exactly right thanks for the anecdote. Its just like how teenage girls saying “whats the big deal it’s my body i can sleep with who I want” have no idea what they are doing to their future.

    Do you know if her husband was her first? Did she marry this guy because her clock was ticking and she needed a beta bucks?

    [–]Supremedis 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Are you professional bodybuilder?

    [–]colcrnch 32 points33 points  (7 children)

    I can’t find the data now but there’s a study which shows the optimal number of partners for a woman is like 2-4– that’s the level where her likeliness to cheat later in life is lowest. Not if she’s a virgin when you met her.

    My hypothesis is that they need some comparison point to know that you’re good or better than the others so they feel they are not missing out.

    So from a strategy perspective one might want to target fairly low n count women with some experience while making sure to blow her mind in bed. I think that’s the secret sauce. Or at least part of it.

    That said, I think much of what you said is good stuff.

    [–]AlmightyPerun 15 points16 points  (5 children)

    I agree, i always thought that as well. She needs a base to compare you to. If that base is too large (say, 20 to 100), she will never be satisfied. Simply put, there's no way you can outperform so many men, no matter how good you are. You will always have flaws in her eyes. That "ache" within her can only be cured by fresh dicks, and it's only temporary, it's not a permanent cure.

    On the other hand, if her base is small (a few men, maybe 5 - 6), then you can definitely outperform and outfuck them. Thus, you will look like the manliest man she has ever known and fucked. There is no "ache", no great need for fresh dicks. If you want an LTR or marriage, i think this is the best type of woman.

    Edit: If the base is too small, aka she's a virgin or has fucked one guy, as you said, there will be fear of missing out. She's still in her "pretty years", and she's missing out. She's wasting the "pretty years". So many different "flavors" walking around, and she has never tasted any of them. There is an "ache", again, which can only be temporarily alleviated by fresh dicks.

    [–]spistruth 7 points8 points  (2 children)

    But you also have to consider that a girl who was virgin until marriage will always have the pride of having 'saved herself' for her man, and that might just outweigh the curiosity of other men due to fear of losing her virtue (the 'goodness' points gained by saving herself).

    [–]AlmightyPerun 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    It never was about "virtue". Women (and even many men) were virgins untill marriage because of societal and religious pressure. Fucking around had huge negative consequences for women in particular, a hundred years ago.

    In other words, people, and especially women, were indirectly forced by the society to do it, and then they hamstered it away as "I'm so nice and virtuous, i do it for god!".

    Today, that pressure is non-existant, thus nobody gives a shit. It's not a relevant factor anymore. There are no points to be gained by "saving yourself" for marriage, there are points to be gained by being "strong and independent".

    [–]askmrcia 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    But that virgin will always be curious to want to know what else is out there ESPECIALLY with our sexualized society

    [–]jinglebells89 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    I had a personal meltdown in NYC a few years ago that led me to really internalized the red pill. I was able to get in touch with one of the PUAs that Rollo promotes on his blog. I was able to sit down and have a drink with the guy. He told me he prefers women that have had a one night stand before but didn't like it.

    [–]AgntMichaelScarn 13 points14 points  (3 children)

    Interesting post. I think you're touching upon a subject rarely discussed on TRP - how would a TRP man raise his own daughter, with the implication of both knowing TRP principles and wanting what's best for a woman (no sex involved since you're presumably not into incest)? And would a daughter with "TRP upbringing" be a good fit for a TRP man?

    The premise of saving sex until marriage does sound crazy especially on this sub, but in my own experience I'll have to agree. You've linked provider with seed planter, which in terms of AF/BB is the best of worlds. I'm sure everyone here has an element of disgust when we know a woman has ridden the CC before, and it seems like we have a double standard when the goal is fucking as many plates as possible.

    I don't think the essence of a TRP man is a Chad (seed planter) - it's a combination of AF/BB since an AF woman will never be LTR material.

    [–]spistruth 10 points11 points  (1 child)

    You are implying that a protector/provider has to be beta bucks. Actually a good RP'ed man can also be a protector/provider by being successful, fit, and having a strong frame. A 'combination of AF/BB' is not needed. Although most RP'ed men tend to not want LTRs.

    Also there is a reason that women who have ridden the cock carousel are more disgusting than promiscuous men. It is because men emit sexual energy much more than accepting it, whereas women accept most of the time. So women are much more changed internally by every sexual encounter than men. Men gain confidence, experience, and conquests. Women gain confidence, and change/alter metaphysically internally.

    Depending on who they sleep with, women can be seen to grow more polluted, while men grow more savvy after each sexual encounter.

    Of course, there are exceptions on both sides.

    [–]HereToOffendIdiots 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    TRP is has so much capability to branch out. It’s perspective that verifies traditionalist relationships based on male strength and that this is when a society is at its best...the implications of that are broader than most realize.

    [–]wss5112 4 points5 points  (2 children)

    I was taking some time to digest your analogy but yeah I agree.

    Same thing does to men. With more relationships, more sex incidents, establishes comparison.

    It’s the comparison that hurts LTR, not guarantee but likely because people might find themselves not having the “best” partner among all they’ve had in the past.

    Similar experience happened to me some time ago until more good thing I realised with my gf to overwrite that.

    Your analogy is not perfect for LTR but is practical. It’s based on blindness. If people don’t “know” anything, then they can easily assume what they’ve got is the best.

    But I’m trying to also think whether comparison can also be a good thing if understood more properly. Such as experiencing some good sex/good partner I’ve had in the past allow me to know more about myself, what I’m looking for, and then allow me that to guide myself to look for a better partner in the future?

    Because what you used in the analogy is the assumption that the LTR partner sucks. It seems case dependent. Not everyone has a shittier LTR partner and LTR partner doesn’t necessarily mean shittier?

    [–]TopherOHoolihan[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    Yes you are right for sure. That’s why I said it reduces not destroys. Realistically, if someone had awkward teenage sex a couple times, this isn’t likely going to ruin their Mature LTR. But the question is this- did the father at least teach the daughter to wait before putting out? This wlll shoo away the degenerate seed planters because theyll move on to a diff target and the daughters first sex will be with more of a well rounded individual who is not necessarily as physically capable but gets emotionally invested as well. If the father isn’t around or is soft, she’ll let the player hit.

    [–]wss5112 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    I definitely agree with this. And will relate to this when I gave some thought about being a dad in the future, a girl will definitely be shaped differently when it's no-dad/shit-dad situation and/or divorced single-parent family which is pretty much my gf. Gladly I'm her first. And I'll be doing good to her

    [–]confusedguy911911 5 points6 points  (2 children)

    Unfortunately as wise as the above OP’s post is , today’s society follows none of those rules .Honestly even TRP principles and guidelines are out of wack lately with the modern woman .With sexual liberation,feminism and narcissism at all time highs (and only gettin much much worse), all these golden rules about woman and spinning plates ,LTR’s are going out the window fast .Allow me to explain as best as I can I hope I make sense .

    I’ve noticed woman between 19-35 are totally lost on so many levels (men included ), it’s mind boggling and frankly worry some for the future of humanity .The lack of ambition and over bearing entitlement of most people today causes great concern if you study your surroundings in everyday life.The good old days of woman wanting the alpha males on a night out seems to hold much less precedence than just 5 years ago.Either its a lack of alpha males out there are just the fact woman don’t care as much (personally I believe it’s their lack of self esteem). I’ve seen 8-9’s on 10 bring home Kermit the frog looking guys much more than any other alpha , why ? My personal take , laziness ,zero self esteem.They prefer the loser so they feel superior , look what I did for you kinda thing? And the whole while Kermit will give his right testicul for her and do anything for a second round .

    These woman /men of today accept inferior specimens and lift their nose in the air to most people who have careers,businesses ,money and intelligence.Morality ,respect ,emotional control are all frowned upon today as traits crazy robotic people have .We are in another hippy era of live for today plan nothing for tomorrow and fuck and suck anyone at anytime if you feel for it (what are consequences,right ?).

    Be honest how many 30-40+ woman and men do you see out there in clubs today versus before ? Too many in my city ,lots of my gym friends are bouncers the tales they tell me are worrying .These 30+ year old woman should at this point in their lives have their shit together ,same as the men.Im not talking one night out ever 6 months people ,I’m talking regulars .All single with kids , most in dead end jobs ,most with boyfriends or girlfriends (not with them at those times ) , equally lost partners .Too many people nowadays seem miserable and require constant stimulation and validation to feel alive and accepted because to them that’s what life is .They just don’t get it ,that life isn’t an endless ball of booze,drugs.sex. Social media validation. .

    Then we all scratch our heads to why anti-depressants,therapy,work burn outs are at all time highs? I have 171 employees under me at work , 100% of those on burn out leave are 32 or less than age , half of them still live at home with no mortgage and maybe 1-2 kids from different partners .... I wish I was joking ....... The worst is yet to come .My mother is a teacher , she keeps telling me if you think it’s bad now just wait.The sense of entitlement,laziness the children have today will be a clinical nightmare in less than 10 years .I guess that’s what happens when you are raised by an iPad and google .

    In final about this rant it was meant to bring a serious look at what we know from the past (woman’s genetic outlook and preprograming towards looking for the best genetic specimen as a mate, hypergamy, and the long list) &( men’s genetic programming towards being the provider,protector , etc etc ) Take a good look at what we know gentleman because it’s going away real soon if not already .Thank the laziness of modern society ,thank social media and piss poor parenting for what’s coming .That playbook we all love will be nothing but a paperweight in 5-10 years why? Because you can’t figure out the game on people who are so screwed up psychologically that they don’t even know if they are coming or going.

    [–]HannibalBacara 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Your anecdotal evidence about hot girls going home with ugly guys doesn't hold up. If they are going home with guys like that it's either because they're at the age where they're looking for beta bux or the guy has good game.

    Dressing well, building muscle, and getting lean is still what women prefer.

    [–]1dongpal 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    video games, porn and social media are just hooking way to hard. it's legal and socially not only acceptable but almost forced on you, and if not directly, then because of your circumstances. and the more lonely you feel, which will sooner or later happen to you because when everyone is sitting at home doing it, it indirectly isolates you more , you suddenly are one of them.

    [–]1ozaku7 5 points6 points  (3 children)

    You make it too evolutional and overcomplicated. Basically the "chads" of college are nothing more than men who are socially and physically well-developed, which is a trait anyone can atleast learn, but didn't find important enough and didn't consider it worthwhile. Instead, they opted for "she will accept me as the lazy bum that I am who doesn't want to improve himself as much as the chads do", only to be filled with anger and be the Billy Beta that starts visiting this sub and spewing his shit on women that don't want to play his lazy game.

    You know how nature works? The male and female get horny, bang each other and with a bit of luck, poof, babies are born of which the fittest and luckiest survive. Back in the day, humans didn't think of the coming 4 decades, they just thought of next week, which is the difference between "have all the unprotected sex you can have with anyone" vs "use contraceptives and have babies 15 years later while you still have fun having sex".

    The thing is that men are more sexhungry than women, which is why men tend to be the chasers of the other gender. If a woman isn't satisfied with her current lover, she has the option of just walking around pretty much anywhere and be approached by a better guy. Since the offer is so great with the least effort, she can afford to cheat on her current boyfriend with the "risk" being she will find a better one eventually.

    What you propose is that a woman keeps her virginity not for the best man she will meet, but for you, the loser who can't compete with the Chads out there. And even if she would stay a virgin, she will still be able to judge whether she would like to have a certain man to be the father of her children. She can still hear from her girlfriend what a stud their husband is and still draw a baseline of what she expects from her future husband. Personality, career, looks, anything of that. We're all born stupid and sex needs practice and mentality to become good (noone is a born pornstar).

    If a woman or a man are not happy in their relationship, it means it holds little value to them relative to what is out there on the market and have therefore little to lose and alot to gain. Noone is going to stick with garbage ever.

    You're just confirming that this sub is nothing but an outcry for the beta cucks that they actually have to develop themselves socially and get a better physique, become an actually attractive men through efforts they can undertake themselves, but are too lazy to do so. It's not so much about winning from the competition, it's rather taking away her choice so she has no choice but you, which is the same like a retard entering the "smartest of the world" contest and winning the title, because you know, there was noone else that was better than him at that point.

    But in any case, women with daddy issues are easily spotted, just as much as men with mommy issues. Daddy issue women feel the need to have a protective and dictating boyfriend, who demands from her boyfriend to forbid her to drink too much alcohol, all the while she will get pissed at him for enforcing what she wants. Simply because she cannot control herself and needs someone above her, and doesn't have the feels for you anymore when you decide not to act like her daddy. Same goes with men with mommy issues, those are the types who are rather looking for a sexmaid while they can be the lazy bums, aka mommy cooks and cleans for Billy while sucking his dick and she's getting nothing in return out of it. Que Billy wondering why mommy isn't attracted to him, and all women are shit because she doesn't accept him for the lazy bum that he is.

    It's all actually really fucking simple. If you can't be fully independent, taking good care of yourself and accepting that you are judged by your social skills and phyiscal appearance, you're a loser who should be filtered out of the gene pool for the greater good of humanity.

    [–]TopherOHoolihan[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    You have a lot of preconceptions about the kind of guy I am which is making you not realize that we are saying the same things. I was a guy who partied a lot in my younger years and hooked up with plenty of women, but I always had a feeling that this wasnt a good thing, mainly when those girls would desperately try to cling to me but i didnt want them. I had a girl obsessed with me but i cheated on her. I was one of the degenerate seed planters i spoke of, not some beta trying to get girls to pick me. The truth is, The man i am now close to becoming is much better than that man i was at 18 and who i am now is much more deserving of a woman because i know what she needs, not just physically but mentally and spiritually.

    I think your point about daddy issue girls going for mommy issue guys is astute however when she realizes that the guy is emotionally vulnerable and weak, she will not see him as daddy anymore. That’s all i have to say i don’t think there’s really much we disagree on, other than perhaps that a man’s choices have moral consequences.

    [–]Brickles09 5 points6 points  (2 children)

    How would you explain this situation? It has puzzled me for years.

    — Girl raised by very oppressive single mother, randomly beaten with wood bastons for nothing by said woman. Couldn’t even leave home to go to places other than school until 21 years old. — Father lost contact with her when she was 6, has been trying to contact him after that, cries when speaking about father, who is the typical Chad by any angle. — Girl is very beautiful. Constantly approached by betas and Chads alike throughout all her life. — Refuses all the betas, rides alpha cock non-stop until 33 years old. — Gets pregnant by Chad at 33 and 36 again. — Chad doesn’t commit, obviously. — Now a miserable single mother literally asking where all the good men went.

    Now, according to your theory, she should have been after that provider/protector beta role since day 1, since that would be the ‘daddy’ she didn’t have, but in fact she never did that, she has always gone after the alphas, and what impresses me the most is that she ended up in the same terrible situation that her mother and herself lived, something that she should have avoided because she saw first-hand that it was not healthy: alpha children to raise alone while a distant alpha father who doesn’t even make phone calls on the kids’ birthdays totally ignores them. BTW, she is still not looking after any beta, she’s only into Chads, even with her 40 years old looming.

    Disclaimer.: She is a very damaged/depressed/ruined woman, and maybe that’s why she doesn’t fit into your narrative. Anyway, thanks for your text, very instructive, and I bookmarked it to re-read it later.

    [–]TopherOHoolihan[S] 12 points13 points  (1 child)

    Okay i can explain. Essentially her mother made her feel like she would never be worthy of daddys love. An alpha widow like that often sees herself in her daughter and basically teaches her from a young age that this is how men are and not to trust any man who tries to engage emotionally. They literally don’t know what a well adjusted loving man looks like because they never had one. The template i posted is for the general mother son father daughter paradigm and is of course subject to all other external circumstances.

    [–]solitudeisunderrated 1 point2 points  (4 children)

    Men who were tyranised by their mom mistakenly associate that provider instinct with sex, so they seek to worship and serve in their lovemaking.

    A boy who’s mom was uninvolved, will do the opposite of worshipping women, he will use them and discard them.

    These two seem wrong af to me.

    [–]TopherOHoolihan[S] 7 points8 points  (3 children)

    How so? Im open to reinterpretations The literature suggests that sons from distant mothers don’t want to get too emotionally involved with a woman as a defense mechanism so they never progress past the physical, constantly jumping from relationship to relationship (i.e harvey spector) (i.e alpha fucks). Or they date emotionally unavailable women (i.e eminem with kim). Men smothered are too quick to get emotionally involved and become providers, often getting used by lovers (beta bucks).

    [–]solitudeisunderrated 6 points7 points  (2 children)

    I don't think males and females are too different in terms of the influence of their childhood on their adult lives. They both try to copy what they found satisfying from their childhoods and fill in the what they think is missing.

    For example, if the boy feels his father beating his mother brought a sense of stability to the house, he will instinctively grow up to approve beating and act it out in his relationships. If he feels his father beating his mother took away the existing stability in the house, it will be the opposite. This is how I view the influence of childhood on adult lives.

    In most cases, a boy whose mom is uninvolved will envy the feeling of having a female protector and will easily get hooked to a girl who can succeed in satisfying the provider instinct to him. Just like a girl whose dad is uninvolved will grow up longing for the feeling of protection of a male and will be easily played by a guy who can satisfy this.

    [–]TopherOHoolihan[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    Men with distant moms tend to grow up cold and unloving, rejecting and not understanding female affection beyond sexual while secretly longing for it. Other than that. I completely agree with you

    [–]Mr_Queef 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    just curiously are you a religious man?

    [–]TopherOHoolihan[S] 21 points22 points  (0 children)

    Meh. Raised loosely catholic. Went through the athiest phase in my teens and while i started my study of science. Grew up with a lot of jews around. Lived with a muslim for 4 years in uni. I always asked a lot of questions to my Muslim and Jewish friends. I also seemed to make alot of friends with religious studies students, but at the time I was deep into the study of sciences and couldn’t grasp a lot of what they said. Id say i have an interest and respect for the world religions, but hold no devotion to any.

    [–]MrTrizzles 1 point2 points  (2 children)

    At first glance, the first bit collapses if she banged mediocre men in her youth, not alphas. Then she would possess all three stones to cast the spell or whatever it was.

    [–]TopherOHoolihan[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    Lol. Notice i said “reduces” not eliminates.

    [–]Zech4riah 1 point2 points  (2 children)

    You should have gone to tremendous depths scientifically that this post would have offered something new.

    No she doesn't? Girls with daddy issues search for next Chad

    A girl with daddy issues never had a proper protector provider relationship with her dad and so she seeks that in her relationships.

    [–]TopherOHoolihan[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    Depends the kind of daddy issue. If she had an absent father and doesn’t know what emotional investment from a man looks like, chad can be daddy. Don forget that many young men (including a lot of my friends and honestly me at one point) fake emotional investment in order to attain pussy. She seeks that emotionally driven protector/boundary setter that her father never provided (assuming absent father) and doesn’t know what that looks like. My last hook up was with a girl just like this- absent father, loved being dominated in the bedroom, was very emotionally needy and then ultimately, was not surprised when I stopped calling, as she is used to this from “daddy”

    [–]SirByron 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    Why do you think there is a “design for our happiness”?

    There was no active designer of the human race or condition. Evolution just settles on whatever works.

    We are a dogs breakfast of urges instincts behaviours that is all designed to procreate at THE EXPENSE Of our happiness. Happinesses is an utopia that’ll never be reached but useful as a carrot to keep going on the treadmill. It’s a fleeting mental state also designed by Evolution because the truth is impossible to bear.

    The Red Pill is too hard to swallow for most people.

    [–]TopherOHoolihan[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    yes procreation happens at our expense I agree. So don’t you think as humans developed cerebral cortices and thus expanding consciousness, as well as an awareness of our predicament, we would use those higher level faculties to figure out how best to live? We are a slave to our pursuit of food, but you can use accrued human abstraction and wisdom to attain the best food for you. Same goes with how to conduct yourself sexually. Taking control of your sexuality and not being a slave is the most powerful thing you can do. Yes i know bottom up (limbic) control over your cerebral cortices is more powerful than top down, and ultimately your animal side gets the last laugh. Nonetheless, we can guide the manifestation of those limbic desires properly in the real world. Thanks for the comment

    [–]dewetsebastian 1 point2 points  (3 children)

    What counts as sex and promiscuity? I think to expect 100% abstinence is just not very realistic. Teens are horny. Save PIV? What?

    [–]TopherOHoolihan[S] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

    Whats’s PIV? Look at this way. It’s already proven that the presence of a loving father delays puberty and sexual development in his daughter (not kidding look it up) so having a strong father around already biologically reduces promiscuity before she can even get started. Now im not saying a young woman shouldnt be free to explore, in fact if a father doesn’t let her, shell want to even more. If he teaches her to hold herself to a higher standard however, then the dudes just chasing pussy will get bored of her and go for someone easier. The guys who stay around will be the ones willing to emotionally invest and treat her better. So she may have a couple partners before meeting the LTR, but they will have been whole lovers not someone physically superior but emotionally stunted. Don’t kid yourself though, her LtR must still be better than those previous boyfriends in all three domains to have a happy marriage. Its just a lot more possible then the girl who banged 15 dudes

    [–]dewetsebastian 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Penis in vagina, thanks a lot. I get your message and I agree with it.

    [–]pureboy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    I'm 30 years old still virgin, porn and vegan and introvert nature helped me to reach this age! I think I'm the right example for this post!

    [–]PreparedBody 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    Soo what about people that are child-free?

    [–]drbldmny 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    haha nothing says alpha like being a the end of a lineage thousands of years long

    [–]Endorsed ContributorKeffirLime 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    A man‘s instinct while young is to plant his seed into as many fertile “gardens “as possible. As he ages and his brain matures, his instincts shift more to the maintenance of one particular garden and to provide and protect the fruits of that garden.

    Not necessarily. This whole article is geared towards a man and a women being happy together until the end of time. Which is not inline with our biology. A man is built to spread his seed, a women is built to select the best seed. We operated in "tribes"(our brains can only maintain +-150 relationships) which still dictates our biological modus operandi. Before the agricultural revolution we were still hunting and gathering. Within this tribe the Alpha male would get first option on all the women. All the women would be desiring him as the alpha.

    There would be no fornicating between two and then live happily ever after as a nuclear family. He would fornicate with multiple women. The tribe would then look out for eachother. So the tribe provided and protected. His instinct is always to spread as far and wide. It doesn't stop as his brain ages and matures. What does dwindle is his mating options as the younger stronger Alpha males have first option, he would take what he can get or simply enjoy the protection of the tribe.

    As a woman ages, her instinct shifts from seeking a healthy seed and more towards someone who will provide and protect her garden

    Old or young she wants the seed of an Alpha, the tribe(and the Alpha) provided and protected. It's not that she now "want's" someone that provides and protects, it's just her selection pool is smaller as she missed pro creating in her prime. She now has to take what she can get.

    This allows her to be satisfied with him in all 3 capacities and thus see him as a steward worth having dominion over her garden.

    And that is why this is incorrect, she is always evaluating him against all other men she comes into contact with. The human brain is constantly calculating.

    If the neighbour is a ripped, CEO with conficdence, and her husband is a timid high school janitor, I assure you her tingles will not be for her provider, even if he is her first.

    men and woman should not have sex until they are settled into their adult lives. I know this sounds like insanity, but really this is just the premise of saving sex till marriage. Once their brain is fully developed, a man has reached his best ability to produce and provide and a woman has reached an age where shes mature enough to seek a man of value, and not a degenerate seed spreader.

    Biologically speaking men should be fucking as soon as they can. Spreading their seed to their best possible option. These options certainly get better as he establishes himself. In a tribe he would not have gotten first option until he established himself as an Alpha and would have had to settle with what he got until that point.

    Women on the other hand have their best shot at the highest value man in their youth. Not having sex then is essentially telling them not to have sex when they could get the best Alpha male possible.

    What this post, like marriage/religion is saying is that we should be bypassing resisting our biology to chase this idealistic male/female happily ever after gig.

    [–]induslink 1 point2 points  (4 children)

    men with femdom fetishes grew up in an oppressive, smothering garden. Literally this translates to a domineering/abusive mother, sister or nanny. This tyranny of the garden caused him to not resolve his oedipal affiliation with the garden.

    How do you resolve this, when you sexually respond to this kind of dynamic the most? Can it be reversed?

    PS: This is the most profound post I've read here, I'm rely hoping you'd have some insight to resolve this.

    [–]TopherOHoolihan[S] 4 points5 points  (3 children)

    Yes you can resolve. Lets talk about what it is. Firstly, its not as bad as you think, many men have it to some degree as we all have an inherent desire to crawl back to the womb. Freud called it the death wish- its an awareness of our inherent fallibility- that one day, no matter how much we rise and conquer earth, we will return to the soil. We return to the garden from which we came (mother- from latin world mater meaning material). In a man’s old age he returns to being under the care of the women in his life. Often his wife(recall women live longer), his daughter, and usually nurses. Ultimately no matter how powerful he gets, he will be humbled and nurtured eventually. Unless he goes out in a blaze of glory, all men become weak and then die. This is how men start and this is how men finish. Mothers who overprotect and are too emotionally available never let him leave this phase early on, they don’t teach him to rise up an conquer the feminine, but rather to serve it and cherish it- like he cherishes his loving mother. He psychologically seeks to be under the control of women into his adulthood, because there’s a little boy in there who when he cried, was never told to be strong. As fucked as that sounds and anti feminist as that sounds, its true. You may have noticed in your adult life that women are not looking for this sort of man, so it may seem harsh to tell a 6 year old to stop crying, but it will help him. Of course there is balance, too little availability and we get the reverse, he sees the feminine as unloving and thus will abuse and use it.

    Lets return to femdom. Women want men who rise above them. Literally (tall guys, big dicks) and also in his means to control the world (money, physical strength, social power over others). Only once she sees you as someone who can do all this (physically dominate her through ksex, provide for her and her child and protect them) will she grant you the ability to submit. This means that in your youth, you need to focus on dominating and save that for your old age. In fact women actually rise in testosterone in their late 40s. The problem femdom seekers get into, is that they are not taught any of this in our gyno society so they just assume they are some sort of freak incapable of normal sex. Nothing is further from the truth, you have the dominating instinct in you. You need to one, establish a normal relationship with your mother, which means putting up boundaries. Stop crying into her shoulder, stop calling her for your problems. Your mom will get old and you must care for her, not the other way around. You must be her shoulder to cry on, not the other way around. Really this all comes down to man up. Stop watching femdom porn, stop seeking out that lifestyle. Once you focus continually on how you want conquer, once you learn to deal with your emotions yourself, once you resensitize your mind to the feminine by not masturbating to kinky porn, you will find yourself naturally seeking to dominate women. Sex is bottom up, meaning its physical first. Your body will always be attracted to women, and enjoy a womens touch and smell. Its when you throw in this top down psychological block that you lose your ability to penetrate a woman. Ill sum up recovery for you:

    Man up: aka

    • put up healthy barriers between you and your mom

    -stop being emotionally vulnerable to women and your mother. Learn how to deal with your own emotions- meditation helps. Dont get swept up in emotions.

    -stop seeking femdom stimuli. Stop masturbating to submission. Its bottom up- so literally shut your mind off and appreciate women’s beauty, their smell, their taste. Focusing on this will excite the carnal savage in you that wants to conquer.

    -stop telling yourself you cant have normal sex. Many of the most powerful men on earth incorporate a bit of femdom in to their life, but this is not something to think of if you arent already confident in your ability to conquer and penetrate a woman. Do not show your femdom kink to your wife. Perhaps like i said later on deep into the marriage, but understand this will make her not want to fuck you. Most men seek a mistress for this not their wife.

    -take red pill advice and be the man in the relationship.

    [–]induslink 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    Thanks for the insight. This mostly rings true, except for one case, my mother was the exact opposite, she never loved me, she was really harsh, abusive (sexually abusive as well). This made me vulnerable to the women with similar energies, one would say I still seek my mother's love.

    On the other hand, I'm pretty dominant, in my marriage, and was the same pre-marriage too. Red pill did help while I was growing.

    I believe my relationship with my mother pushed me towards abusive dominant women early in my life. Red pill got me on track, but I still notice the sexual response to the abusive kind. One could say I've mommy issues (like women who have daddy issues)

    Thankfully I have built distance from my very feminist predator mother now, after a lot of effort. But I'm hooked to femdom porn and trying to get rid of it. I've grown more religious in the process and leaning on god helps a lot. I really wish I had never met my mother. Recovering from her took a lot of my time and in many ways in still stuck.

    [–]TopherOHoolihan[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Sir you are exactly me, to a T, except my abuser was my older sister. I also struggled with femdom and yet find myself very aggressive and dominant in relationships. I prefer sex where I am dominant and i want absolute control of my life. But then still also have that femdom response. What i believe happened was that as a response to experiencing such harsh treatment from the feminine at such a critical point in our development, our adult brain (higher level reasoning centers and personality) developed a hyper masculine response. So the infant in all of us wants to be back under mommys control, and our adult personality wants the opposite.

    Edit rereadd the part i wrote about femdom i just updated it and i think its more accurate

    [–]wobbleelbbow 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    men and woman should not have sex until they are settled into their adult lives.

    Good luck with your naive christian morality.

    [–]punchyson 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Women are sexual beasts. Their biological purpose is to get fucked by the best males they can attract and have babies.

    I think the Icelandic idea of relationships is pretty well thought out. It is common for a man and woman to hook up, have a kid together and split when the romance is gone. That is one of the reasons they have gender specific surnames. Björnsdottir vs Björnsson.

    The tricky bit is that a man with lots of options is going to take the pretty virgin most of the time.

    A primal fear most men share is questions of paternity. We like the nasty things sluts do, but not the questions about who else she is fucking on the side. There are still cultures that allow men to annul a marriage on the spot if the bride is not a virgin.

    Dudes know deep down a woman would get knocked up by another guy and let him raise the kid thinking it is his. This goes beyond religion, it is cultural boundaries on women because at one time they probably fucked every swinging dick in sight and nobody knew who’s kid it was

    [–]Endorsed ContributorJamesSkepp 6 points7 points  (26 children)

    When a woman saves her virginity for her provider, she has also allowed him to be her seed planter. That means he is the best provider she can get, and importantly, the best lover she ever had.

    This is absurd logic. Let's do a thought experiment, say you've never rode and never bought a car. Postpone both for 10 years, buy a car after 10 years pass, then declare that this is the best car you've ever had. Well, no shit Sherlock!

    men and woman should not have sex until they are settled into their adult lives. I know this sounds like insanity, but really this is just the premise of saving sex till marriage. Once their brain is fully developed, a man has reached his best ability to produce and provide and a woman has reached an age where shes mature enough to seek a man of value,

    Women's SMV peaks when she's 20-21. After that it's going down and there is no stopping that. Requiring women to postpone having sex in the name of "maturity" is against their sexual strategy. And their sexual strategy, as is ours, is hardcoded into the genes.

    Sexual strategy is not about maximizing what's best for BOTH genders. It's about maximizing what's best for the individual gene set. You want women and men to go against their sexual strategy b/c you have imprinted CULTURAL values instead of biological ones when it comes to sexual strategy.

    and not a degenerate seed spreader.

    All that paragraphs and sentences and you could have written this line and spare us the anger-phase platitudes. You don't have a problem with women, you have a problem with men and specifically you have a problem with one man: yourself. Work on your SMV, work on your game, women will show up sooner or later.


    OP doesn't like competition from other men so he rationalizes why women should abandon their sexual strategy (which is selection of the best guy). TL/DR solution: go out , compete, fail, learn what to fix, repeat until you're satisfied with the results.

    [–]Endorsed ContributorKeffirLime 2 points3 points  (2 children)

    I see your alarm also went off. This is a TradCon marriage fantasy post.

    [–]Endorsed ContributorJamesSkepp 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    While I can see tradcon here, I mostly see personal angerphase, which is underlined in this, totally not emotional line:

    a woman has reached an age where shes mature enough to seek a man of value, and not a degenerate seed spreader.

    [–]Endorsed ContributorKeffirLime 0 points1 point  (0 children)


    Not to mention the paradox in that statement.

    The man of value is the seed spreader.

    [–]3LiveAFTSOV 3 points4 points  (20 children)

    The key isn't in buying a car after 10 years, it's refusing to even test drive another car until after the 10 years, when you can have the car you always wanted.

    [–]Endorsed ContributorJamesSkepp 1 point2 points  (19 children)

    How can you know what you want in a car if you've never drover one?

    In the case of men it's promoting scarcity, oneitis and borderline BP-ism.

    In the case of women, take a wild guess, if women are not going to fuck a man before marriage, who besides women, are you really denying sex to?

    [–]3LiveAFTSOV 0 points1 point  (12 children)

    Because I can stand on the outside and say "That car looks uglier than the other ones, this one's color is ridiculous - that one is too loud - that one too fast. Hey, this one seems okay let me step inside right quick (go on a first date) ohh nope nvm too small let me step in this truck... oh hey it's roomy! And big! Vroom vroom!"

    [–]Endorsed ContributorJamesSkepp 0 points1 point  (11 children)

    go on a first date

    Right. So you're gonna vet a woman you're supposed to spend your entire life with in one date.

    Also, while we're here: let's go with OP's idea of abstinence for a moment. How long should a man keep the chastity up? Say he finds his unicorn at 30? Is he supposed to wait until 30 to have sex?

    [–]3LiveAFTSOV 1 point2 points  (10 children)


    this isnt supposed to be applied to males... falls under the "men and women are equal and similar beings" fallacy.

    WOMEN would vet&wait - good ol' hypergamy, not selecting to be the town whore with many suitors, but rather the princess with the best numero Uno suitor.

    So yes, women would vet the men they are supposed to spend their life in 1 date. Probably more like 30 seconds. You're either in or out - do it for her or dont.

    That's one thing that tripped me up. Hypgeramy dictates "select for the best," and women don't wanna be the town whore, right?

    How is taking on all cummers "selecting for the best?" letting sperm fight for insemination rights in the coochie?

    Why do girls go on cock carousel extravaganza's instead of upping their value to give to their "best suitor?" ---
    Oh yeah, sabotaged by their "sisters, "weak father figures, and idealization of hedonism.

    [–]Endorsed ContributorJamesSkepp 0 points1 point  (9 children)

    this isnt supposed to be applied to males...

    According to OP it is. Also, it is applied to males even if we apply it only to women, since if we take away women's right to have sex before marriage, we take away man's ability to have sex - b/c there are no women to have sex with.

    women don't wanna be the town whore

    Women don't want the town to know they are whores while whoring round for best sperm in their youth. That's hypergamy. Not "not being a whore" but "being one without people finding out" b/c if people found out it would diminish the second part of her strategy - the BB.

    How is taking on all cummers "selecting for the best?" letting sperm fight for insemination rights in the coochie?

    Technically speaking, that's the most "fair" competition - since you can circumvent alpha status via game, status, money etc.

    Why do girls go on cock carousel extravaganza's instead of upping their value to give to their "best suitor?"

    Who's fucking the girls riding on the CC? Men are. If so, why do you direct the "sisters, weak father figures, and idealization of hedonism" accusation only against women? IOW if you want women to stop fucking around, you also need men to stop fucking around.

    [–]3LiveAFTSOV 0 points1 point  (8 children)

    When I say "the town whore" i mean the girl who's fucked around town and the new boyfriend has all her old-lovers introducing themselves to him

    Not like, a common cheater/normal girl doing her sex things.

    That's where the idealisation of hedonism comes into play. I love having wild sex with unfamiliar women, but I live more fulfilled knowing I have a common LTR (no matter how serious it is) and we work towards goals together.

    Ive seen it's about banging as many new women as possible, rather than fulfilling ourselves, based on what men I speak with say. Maybe indulging in so much sex is the path to being fulfilled and to long for a different kind of relationship. That's how Maslow's pyramid goes.

    if we take away women's right to have sex before marriage, we take away man's ability to have sex - b/c there are no women to have sex with.

    Touche` I think the solution lies in something

    Not as drastic as "wait only for marriage" but not the "if it fits, ride the dick" disaster we got going on now.

    High value men are always going to be having sex - where as high value women are having alot of sex with 1-few guys.

    So, even if high value guys are having sex, so long as they are "aware" they will never commit to any of the trash cans - leaving women to be pumped and dumped for infinity.

    Stopping the disinformation campaign that perpetuates women devaluing themselves by reducing them into hobbiless sex trolls is a good place to start IMO. Best friends forever are experts at this type of sabotage. "You go gurl!"

    Technically speaking, that's the most "fair" competition

    Well, I vote for community sponsored gangbangs to filter for alpha genes. Lets get tribal again.

    Edit: I want to add, that the women would lay there with her legs spread, waiting for the most dominant male to get the first penetration. How do you get to the front of the congo line? Being the biggest strongest ape. Lifting wins once again.

    Edit 2: *In current culture, sex is the pinnacle of life. Sex with everything. If she's fat, fuck her, if she's ugly, fuck her, you can never have too much sex. Have sex with any and all you encounter. That guy spark a tingle in your stomach? suck his dick! Just ran into a cute looking stranger? Get plowed in the back of his car! *

    [–]Endorsed ContributorJamesSkepp 1 point2 points  (7 children)

    I live more fulfilled knowing I have a common LTR (no matter how serious it is) and we work towards goals together.

    You know that "having common goals with your LTR" is a BP fantasy? She will adopt your values and goals if you're alpha enough for her. She will become a devout Christian for you and and ANTIFA hate-crime fighter for the "this is how feminist looks like" high SMV actor.

    Hottest women have ZERO goals until the wall comes knocking near 30, then suddenly she finds she wants to be an entrepreneur or help the poor.

    Ive seen it's about banging as many new women as possible, rather than fulfilling ourselves, based on what men I speak with say

    Entertain the possibility that you're asking the wrong men b/c being fulfilled based on how many cocks the girl had (or didn't have) is pretty dumb. Ie they want common goals with low-n count girl, why not guarantee common goals and no-n-count and get a male business partner and divorce the goals from the women?. Not only it's a BP unicorn fantasy, it's also external locus of control.

    High value men are always going to be having sex - where as high value women are having alot of sex with 1-few guys.

    In the case of hottest girls, it's the high entry barrier (hottest men compete for her and there's less of them than non-hottest men, it's 80/20 rule in play), not her innate "virtue".

    How do you get to the front of the congo line? Being the biggest strongest ape. Lifting wins once again.

    I like how you managed to turn the TRP on it's head. How to be a deliberate cuck? Lift harder. LOL.

    [–]3LiveAFTSOV 1 point2 points  (6 children)

    Lol! I didn't flip TRP - we both agreed that sperm wars are fair.

    And for the record, if anyone tried to cuck me, they and the girl are getting fucked up. Especially if it's in my house.

    If I'm the one cucking someone else's girl though....

    Also, I don't like that you discredit Beta Bux Sugar daddy relationships when it comes to "the hottest of women"

    Let's not discount the scores of attractive Instagram "traveling entrepreneurs "

    Top shelf pussy is worth 80 dollars. Remember that .

    Also about sharing goals with your LTR, we have agreement. She is a receiver and alphas plant seeds of thought and creation into women .

    Yes i know women will shift their lives to orientated themselves to support alphas.

    You know that "having common goals with your LTR" is a BP fantasy? She will adopt your values and goals if you're alpha enough for her.

    Men are the main character. Women are supporting role. That's my ideal relationship. Is that a BP fantasy? Sounds like my experience in real life

    If you're alpha enough you lead her. Being lead to a goal. The man's goal. Thus a common goal is shared

    So not a BP delusion, but an unspecified RP inevitability.

    The real red pill is that the more charismatic, persuasive, and attractive a person is, the more they can sway people to make their goals, the goals of other people as well.

    [–]the_strat 0 points1 point  (5 children)

    This post is about being happy and satisfied with your "car". If you drive a corvette after the minivan, you will get a thrill, but perhaps miss the convenience and comfort, and become dissatisfied with the vette because eventually you want to go off road or take a long road trip. And no one car can meet those needs. However, if you wait to find out what your priorities really are, you can value what is actually important for YOU. You never want kids? Don't bother with the van. You don't like getting dirty? Don't get the jeep. Can you be happy with the BMW because you don't want to spend your money on a sexy but otherwise useless vehicle? All of this can be known without having test driven any of them.

    Again, it's about being happy.

    [–]Endorsed ContributorJamesSkepp 0 points1 point  (4 children)

    All of this can be known without having test driven any of them.

    IOW it's you're 100% for men to be celibate until marriage. Great. Let's start with the age of 20. How long are YOU going to wait, 5 years, 10 years? Is that really a benefit? Become a vol-cel only to get married to one girl-forever later? What kind of m-f skills is that man going to develop and pass on?

    [–]the_strat 0 points1 point  (3 children)

    ... You mean the kind of skills that the men in WW1 had? The ability to know your values should be easily had and understood by the time you are 20, holding to those values has been disensentivised. To clarify, my response was about women's attitudes toward their LTR.

    (what does IOW mean?)

    [–]Endorsed ContributorJamesSkepp 0 points1 point  (2 children)

    To clarify, my response was about women's attitudes toward their LTR.

    Than we're talking past each other b/c I was talking about men. Women will be fine left alone to their own devices b/c women are innately RP and stick to their own sexual strategy.

    IOW=In Other Words.

    The ability to know your values should be easily had and understood by the time you are 20,

    By the time you're 20 you're an intellectual retard who has zero real world experience and has equally as much skills to make sense of that non-existing experience.

    [–]the_strat 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    Social retard, sure. But you could absolutely know your values. I think most people in society semi-cociously choose to ignore their values the same way teenagers put off their homework.

    [–]Endorsed ContributorJamesSkepp 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    you could absolutely know your values

    Your values as a 20yo, for sure.

    [–]RexDTeach 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    Could you explain your logic a bit further? The car analogy is a bit confusing for me.

    [–]Endorsed ContributorJamesSkepp 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    How can you say with 100% certainty that this is the best car ever if you can't compare it to others? What if you have an undiscovered preference for trucks and you end up with Prius? Maybe you could be a F1 driver and you and up with a farm tractor instead. And so on.

    The point is, men are hardwired to seek variety, not lifelong biological attachment. If you force a man to remain celibate until marriage b/c his lack of experience will make him think that his first girl is the best in the world b/c he had sex with her for the firs time, it's nothing short of scamming the man from his possible future and taking the choice away from him.

    Same thing if you force women to remain celibate - you will also deny the sex to men.

    Something more personal, I imagine you are a student or maybe you work somewhere. Regardless, for a lot of people their first job is usually a shitty one. McDonalds or something like that. It's your first job, so it's the best ever you can have, right?

    [–]BonelessSkinless 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    Okay so tldr save sex until marriage.

    Too bad for you this societies morals have decayed so far that most girls have lost their v card by grade 9 and sometimes, before that. Dont kid yourselves here. The best you can do is hope for a relationship where you're on the same page and even that wont work. Just give up tbh lmao

    [–]ThatDM 5 points6 points  (7 children)

    So pretty much your complainijg that women may of slept with someone better then you beffore?

    [–]abudun79 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Smells like either victim puke plus rationalization or theory from a theorist. No matter which it is, it's a typical TRP-loser-post without relevance.

    [–][deleted]  (2 children)


    [–]fahr1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    "All women are the same, they just cost different"

    While this is a wide generalization, there is some truth in this.

    [–]pro-complainer 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    What about women who had their virginity taken away by rape?

    Where would they fit in this post? Asking cause I married a woman who was raped before, in my beta days. Marriage didn't last so would like to see how things fit together.

    [–]VegasWeddings 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    It’s always funny when people try to ignore the fact that we humans are just evolved animals and the role nature plays in the our determination of what and how we are. I highly agree with you on this take regarding fertility and that humans are designed to copulate as much and often as possible.

    [–]cre8tionrebel 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Perfect description of life cycles of the gardens. Very helpful to appreciate our gardens. I am trying to figure out where I fall in this spectrum. This is a serious inspection of our psyche

    ok so im gonna talk about the girl with daddy issues and I have a question about her...

    What if the girl has extreme daddy issues. Like for example taken from her family moved to another country adopted then rejected by the adoptors then adopted into a dadyless mother only foster situation. Imagine this extreme lack of a protector of the garden. Like a truly never ever even been protected. Lets say she tries the typical looking for daddy and has alot of lovemaking and Instead of just focusing on the act of making love, the dominance of the dad is intertwined into her lovemaking and so she seeks men who will be her daddy.

    Ok so this goes on but men know the second they are in there something is different. She is giving it up. But she is her own protector of her own shit. Basically shes chopping heads off every dude like a preying mantis. So she seems like shes promiscuous but she never actually lets the man take control. Like your in her about to bust then she decides to stop. Like defective mind vagina connection. She takes control of her garden at the last second not letting the seed in but still getting love made.


    If you find one like this is she like a virgin with a powerful guardian of her garden?

    When the man takes the garden is the best lover she ever had because of this. will she believe him to be the best provider/protector she ever had. She cant really think of the dudes she made love with if she never really gave in. Get it?

    [–]ItzFizzy1 0 points1 point  (3 children)

    damn my mom left me when I was about 12 and this makes a lot of sense

    [–]TopherOHoolihan[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

    In sorry to hear that. How would you say that has affected you?

    [–]ItzFizzy1 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    I'm a senior in HS rn and only discovered trp maybe halfway through my junior year so I'd say right now the whole "discarding women" thing is in effect. After I fuck and have already gotten nudes I really don't want anything to do with women. Before TRP however I somehow managed to still pull girls. I was very very clingy and sometimes emotional with them. I think I realized why I was like that when I was about 15-16 because I realized my mom and I had never gotten along since she was mentally abusive before leaving me entirely. I think since I never had a loving mother I seeked out love, care, and motherly attributes in my girlfriends which pushed them away and caused more distress.

    [–]TopherOHoolihan[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Exactly. And now realizing that women will not offer you that sort of love, you are on the path to treating them with emotional detachment. I mean, how can the world expect you to love a woman when you never received that love yourself? Its not fair really. I am not experienced with this issue so I cant speak any further than this, but I am sure there is a way for you to deal with this healthily

    [–]inferno1234 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    I agree with the feminine analogy, but you imply that men should save themselves as well a number of times if I understand correctly and I have to disagree.

    Do you feel that way and if so, why? I think men derive value and experience from their n-count, at least to a certain extent. Being able to blow her mind in bed from the get go is a genuine advantage that should not be taken lightly. I also feel like the damage women take by their high n-count is not applicable to men as they are to mould a woman into the sexual creature they desire her to be, in addition to being less prone to the emotional/fickle attraction women display.

    [–]TopherOHoolihan[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    I think in theory if a man used that sexual energy to pursue goals instead of chasing ass he would 1 make him self into an absolute savage and be light years ahead mentally and physically than his ass chasing self 2 wind up with a higher quality woman than he ever got chasing ass 3 There would also be less damaged emotionally used women around

    In all honesty man, i may have damaged a few women. Were not perfect and this world isnt perfect. If you want to chase sluts go ahead. Some girls are already damaged seriously whats one more right? The only person you risk to lose is yourself though, and your ability to see women as human. That’s all

    [–]the-jds 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Man, it took you nine years to understand basic human relationships in regards to sex. I'm sorry.

    [–]brinkleybuzz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    A woman who's been pumped a lot has also been dumped a lot ... a red flag that she has issues.

    [–]Cross_De_Lena 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Jordan Peterson, is that you?

    I like your posts, keep em coming!

    [–]djh860 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    I like this people somehow assume we ended up with our former relationship with women daughters and wives because men are assholes. Maybe the reality is that over the last 50,000 years we tried many arrangements and the model from 50-100 years ago worked best over the long run so it became enshrined in our culture.

    [–]TopherOHoolihan[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Exactly. I despise this post modern mentality of- everything before 100 years ago was primitive stupidity and we figured it all out now. Forget the last 200,000 years of human progression, marx and foucault know everything

    [–]fahr1 0 points1 point  (7 children)

    God damn dude, I think you nailed this to the tee. After reading every single word of this and applying what you wrote to my personal life, I literally have been fucking up my entire life. My dad was always working so my time with him was very limited so my mom was in charge of me, she was very dominant and controlling and we never got along.. constantly fighting til one day she tried to run me over in her car and I put a dent in her car after kicking it in. The cop present told me some very wise words, he said "Get away from your mom, I know you love her, but this is just going to get worse so get away from her for a little while, it will work itself out". The cop couldn't have been more right. I left, didn't see my mom for 4 years.

    I've had tumultuous relationships, 2 failed marriages (They couldn't quit hopping dick) and just got out of a 7 year relationship with someone about half my age (i was 40, she was 18). While at first, this was great for my psyche, but the problem I had was I put too much into that relationship. I thought I was Red Pilling it, but in reality, it was all Blue Pill. I've been kicking myself for this ever since. The details of those events I am extremely embarrassed about so I won't get into that.

    However, the OP I believe in my heart of hearts is correct on their assessment of basic male/female interactions, I mean there are some people that are different but I think essentially, this is like body language.. you can't hide these actions and in-actions without telling the truth in the way you present yourself.

    Thank you OP, you've definitely given me something to rethink about my entire life. Reading this makes me want to invest all the time, energy and money into building a time machine to go back to 1985 and start kicking my ass on a regular basis.

    [–]TopherOHoolihan[S] 1 point2 points  (6 children)

    I am happy to have brought some clarity. I only have what you posted, but it sounds like you have been chasing women instead of your dreams. It also sounds to me like you still have time to go after some of those goals. Im not saying try to become an olympic athlete, but surely there is something you can think of that lights a fire in you. Is it accurate to say you we’re looking for emotional support from your first two wives, instead of being the dominant rock they needed to support them?

    [–]fahr1 1 point2 points  (5 children)

    I would say that you are correct in that assessment, again, thank you.

    [–]TopherOHoolihan[S] 1 point2 points  (4 children)

    What are your thoughts on proceeding from here?

    [–]fahr1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Right now, currently i'm trying to fill this void of human contact I have with other things. Keeping my hands and mind busy without the need for human contact. The people I have in my life currently are true blue, but they won't be around forever (Lost my best friend last year so finding a replacement for him has been hard). I've read about the Dependence vs Abundance discussion that comes up on TRP every now and then and i'm trying really hard to be less dependent and to be more abundant. It's gonna be a hard pill to swallow because i've spent my entire life looking for someone to fill the coveted spot next to me and all along i've been avoiding myself.

    [–]fahr1 0 points1 point  (2 children)

    At the point i'm in in my life, I really have nothing to offer a female at this time because i'm at the absolute lowest point in my life (seriously, i am but it's my fault and i'm digging myself out) and a female that I could possibly find will probably be worse for me.

    The thing is right now for me, I need to make myself more attractive to a female. I've had a vasectomy so my seed spreading days are over and my last relationship (she's 26 now) she's looking to get seeded before 30 and i'm just not very good in that department. I wish I could share all the details here with you because I believe if I shared my story it would validate a lot of the behavioral issues you stated, I was with her for 7 years which is pretty good for a girl her age, but she was hopping dick during our relationship and i didn't find out about it til later. I wouldn't be afraid to PM you any details, but i'm not going to make it public because it's just too embarrassing, maybe you could use my story in later post without mentioning me.. :)

    [–]TopherOHoolihan[S] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

    Sounds like you know what needs to be done. But let’s reiterate: 1. Figure out a future version of yourself that you would be proud of. Who could you be in 3 years that would make you proud to look at. Do it because you want to be that guy, because you think that guy would be a respectable example of the human form.
    2 stop thinking you need people. That is the true blessing at the other end of male disposability- we can be happy on our own. Once you can get it in your head that being happy alone gives you power, you will take off. And as you see yourself progressing towards that man, you will enjoy yourself even more, youll be happier, more creative, you’ll literally make yourself laugh. 3 As you move towards this man, be open to friendships that come along the way. Im sorry for your loss, but im sure you realized that a male friend is a good outlet for emotional stress. If you don’t have one that’s fine, you will survive on your own and you will harden. This needs to happen. 4 once you are someone you are proud of, put yourself in settings and situations in which you can show off and give this man to others (i.e women but also society at large). A man is built to conquer and give, but no one wants anything from a man with nothing.

    You got this

    [–]fahr1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Thank you for your words of wisdom. I will try to employ this strategy. It's going to be hard because I put myself in this rut. If only I could go back to 1985 and apply it, I would be all right right now but I can't do that and I need to start looking forward. That's a weakness of mine I need to start focusing on is stop looking back because it isn't helping. It's only making me weaker.

    Thank you... very much

    [–]omargrunt 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    I seek to worship and serve in my lovemaking. Hate that shit. I mostly dont come cause im focused on her.

    [–]TopherOHoolihan[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Not coming/becoming impotent is a clear signal that you have not risen above the oedipal mommy obsession yet. Stop seeing your lover as a divine figure you need to worship, see her for what she is- a woman. She shits and farts and makes mistakes just like you. Neither of you is superior to one another, but physically you are her dominant.

    [–]yanngg 0 points1 point  (3 children)

    -men with femdom fetishes grew up in an oppressive, smothering garden.

    This was really eye opening for me. I grew up with my mom being very domineering and not letting me do what i want. And i think the consequence to that it was me always waiting for the woman to be the more active individual in the seduction process, and it was this way until i found TRP.

    Even though i found TRP and was able to learn some of the basics concepts, it is still hard to me to just be a real man, it seems this are my instincts and i would really like to know if there is a way of changing that definitely

    [–]TopherOHoolihan[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Things that put you in charge of your own emotions is where you need to start- stocism, meditation. Overbearing mothers cause their sons to be emotionally volatile and too comfortable expressing their emotions publicly. Its basically the opposite of ‘man up’. You need to set boundaries for the women in your life and not let them see certain emotions. I made a response to dealing with a femdom fetish below. Its beatable

    [–]Meta-h 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    I think it’s much simpler than this. The hottie girls get to explore sex at a younger age with their pick of the best alphas while the young men get the shit end of the stick until their mid 20s.

    Men and women even out in mid life until the wall obliterates most women at 30 to 35 latest. After that they get little attention and definitely not from the primo alphas.

    Then the best alphas, even older can get their pick of the hottest chicks. Old chicks are pissed cus now they’ve got a beta. The time scale is fair. They got theirs early and the guys that didn’t get shit when they were young... well now it’s their time.

    If you marry an alpha widow, then you chose poorly... oh and btw if you are with an alpha widow, then you’re the beta.

    [–]jkingauthor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Here's another way to look at the data:

    Promiscuous women are women who crave variety. This type of woman just wouldn't be happy staying with the same guy.

    [–]punchyson 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    One of the very few remaining female friends I have spelled this out unknowingly. She describes it as falling in love with the first few men she had sex with. She even married one of them, until he turned into a 24/7 drunk and physically assaulted her daily. Her description is that she falls in love with the man she is having sex with. I believe her.

    True to red pill theory, she went through her party/slut phase. From conversations I've had with her, she acknowledges that after a certain number of men she was just looking for fun validation sex with men she considered hot. I sensed that at this point in her life, that a big part of that was being emotionally withdrawn on purpose so she doesn't get attached. Literally one and done so she doesn't fall for the guy.

    She is in that epiphany phase now. The guy has to have a lot of criteria to get her to even consider going on a date. What she is really looking for is a former bad boy who "grew up". An Ex-Biker gang dude who did some time and is all tatted up and recently went back to school to be a Nurse and is active in his local church would be "Mr. Right". That is one of the most interesting things about her candid conversations. She wants the AF bad boy who has turned the corner and is ready to be her BB. It kind of blew my mind but then it made sense.

    [–]tonguexp 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Interesting. How does a lesbian or bisexual evolve? How would awalt operate for lesbian women?

    [–]187oddfuture 0 points1 point  (3 children)

    Bruh read a book on biochemistry. What your saying can’t drive human behavior is exactly what does. Micro processes both in the brain through neruoreceptors and hormone excretion dictate everything that we do. The story of human behavior is that of neurochemicals and hormone releases. Sorry dude but you’re wrong on this one.

    [–][deleted]  (13 children)


    [–]TopherOHoolihan[S] 0 points1 point  (12 children)

    and you don’t see anything potentially damaging to society by doing that? (P.s im currently doing that too lol)but let’s be real here we both know we’re not doing a good thing).We’re dancing in sodom

    [–][deleted]  (9 children)


      [–]jazztaprazzta 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Having a single sex partner is counter intuitive to nature and damaging to the propagation of the species.

      There are a lot of things that are "counter intuitive to nature", but are good in terms of long term survival and evolution. For example, fucking your hot daughter is something you can do in nature, and in fact nature wants you to do it because your daughter is hawt as fuck, but in our societies it's a taboo and people are programmed to feel 'disgust' or similar emotion when even thinking about it.

      The whole societal order, in which todays culture thrives is based on rules and taboos, most of them "counter intuitive to nature".

      [–]TopherOHoolihan[S] 0 points1 point  (7 children)

      Friend sex is as old as life itself. Our unicellular ancestor 4 billion years ago was likely sexually dimorphic meaning the intertwining of the sexes is that old. Our rational brain which can modulate our sexuality is barely even 100k years old. Sure religion is a basic way of understanding how to function properly as a society. It gets a lot wrong and needs to be refined, but it was an early attempt at us using our higher level thinking to build a better world. We are currently living in an infantilized society driven by our primitive desires for sex and it’s falling apart.

      [–][deleted]  (6 children)


        [–]TopherOHoolihan[S] 0 points1 point  (5 children)

        417 people disagree, not mention all the ones negated by the downvotes. Red pill is about breaking conditioning, be open please. Thanks

        [–][deleted]  (3 children)


          [–]TopherOHoolihan[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

          Never said anything about christianity. But if you try to understand who we are without consulting the longest surviving book,s, you are missing a huge piece of the puzzle

          [–][deleted]  (1 child)


            [–]TopherOHoolihan[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            Okay ill tell all the religious scholars and psychologists that we’re done. Shoregrey figured it out thanks. Thats a wrap boys

            [–][deleted]  (1 child)


              [–]radiogaga441 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              I think this entire thread is out to lunch.

              [–]radiogaga441 0 points1 point  (2 children)

              Man I can't even I'm going to dig into this but..

              Education is important. Sex education- biology.

              Don't freak out if your daughter masturbates because its NORMAL human behavior. Assert that she keeps it private. However, there's still a lot of bs around about the hymen meaning purity (which some female babies are born without a hymen and its not considered abnormal, but that also depends on tour country and resources to information).

              Educate her about STI's and about having self respect and morals. Get her to learn self respect, self-defense (classes when shes a teenager if you can! Or teach her some defense, after all shes your child and you want her to not be helpless), and to have a strong, intelligent mind. She's not taught shes less than her brother(s).

              She can have an engaging conversation, and doesn't allow peer pressure to do things not appropriate for her age since she does not have the emotional maturity to have a relationship or understand what it takes to raise a family. Be in her life. Love her. Build her to be like YOU.

              Don't be a dick and treat her like shes less. Just because shes not your son doesn't mean she can't be a successful, hilarious, balanced, joyful minature version of you. For real, she can BE you and emulate her life after you.

              Teach her to say no and teach her to kick ass. She owns her mind, her body, and will make good choices thanks to the direction her family has provided. Include her. Don't just protect her like she's going to break.

              Know when to let go.

              I know older women who are divoced and having a blast. Some are destroyed privately. I think someone's happiness in old age depends on their quality of life, mental health, and nutrition, along with a strong social network that doesn't necessarily mean a marriage. Community connection is where its at folks.

              I thought some of this was accurate, but some of it I don't agree with. However, to each their own.

              [–]TopherOHoolihan[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

              Would you mind telling me what you disagree with?

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