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MetaNo More Jordan Peterson Shit. (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by Modredpillschool

For some reason, there's a contingency of insufferable, condescending cunts who decide to come here and babble about "hierarchies" and other JP related horseshit.

They come here and spew either word salad or pretentious diatribes about how we could finally understand how right they naturally are if we just opened up to longer sentences that say nothing. The key markers are as follows:

  • Focus on incoherent vocabulary rather than a cogent thesis.
  • The more nebulous, abstract or ethereal the idea the better.
  • Does not in any way address TRP theories, even the ones it seeks to contradict.
  • Usually goes on and on about the abstractly discrete hierarchies and their rules.

I have absolutely no idea how these people manage to spit out so many words that say nothing. But the condescension and total meaninglessness of their drivel is the reason I'm banning it altogether.

If your idea has merit, you can present it with respect, and without condescension. Further, you can do so without including a detailed video of you literally sucking JP's dick while doing so.

We will remain a forum about sexual selection and we will continue to treat it as a free market of ideas. But this troll does not have a home here.

If you break this rule. Instaban. No Warnings.


[–]Modredpillschool[S,M] [score hidden] stickied comment (1 child)

inb4: But RPS! I thought you were against censorship and now we can't talk about real ideas wah wah wah wah wah!

If you think you've got good ideas, present them. Don't make an appeal to Jordan Peterson's (supposed) authority. Make a well reasoned argument without being condescending and hell, maybe you'll change some minds.

[–]juliuscsir 180 points181 points  (78 children)

“...literally sucking JP’s dick...” I don’t think a video like this LITERALLY exists. Words matter.

[–]senpaicreampie 27 points28 points  (6 children)

I really hate the excessive use of that word.

"I'm literally dying right now"

"I'm literally failing this class"

"I'm literally starving"

No you are not.

[–]Endorsed Contributorex_addict_bro 7 points8 points  (1 child)

I really literally hate the excessive use of that word.

FTFY

[–]DannyDemotta 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Your post is literally cancer

Why go so far out of your way to make something that isn't about you, about you? Nobody here gives a shit about your individual preferences.

[–]Endorsed Contributorex_addict_bro 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I like your comment so much I literally upvoted it.

[–]jordanbadland 49 points50 points  (59 children)

I gave up on JBP the moment I saw that his daughter riding the coattails of his fame to post semi-nude photos of herself on Instagram and pass it off as something diet-related.

JFL he can't even control his own daughter to stop her from attention-hoeing. If he can't even do that, what more other than a boomer is he at this point.

[–]karmalizing 44 points45 points  (10 children)

"You shall know them by their fruits"

[–]jordanbadland 14 points15 points  (4 children)

My thoughts exactly, bonus for using a wise Bible quote

[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorVasiliyZaitzev 12 points13 points  (3 children)

I thought he was talking about San Francisco and Provincetown. (j/k)

[–]jordanbadland 2 points3 points  (2 children)

lmao wp

[–]spistruth 2 points3 points  (1 child)

explain the joke pls

[–]VolatileEnemy 8 points9 points  (4 children)

That's ridiculous. Plenty of men are attention addicts too. A lot of them even have instagrams.

I think a trained psychologist would know a little better about whether some attention-seeking is bad or not, versus a severe amount of attention-seeking. And controlling teenage daughters is not some easy task anyway, what is he gonna do? Provide ultimatums of "hey stop posting on instragram"??? Seriously?

[–]DrMrJrSr 3 points4 points  (3 children)

I've peeped the IG. Nothing there comes off as hyper attention-seeking, and i've seen PLENTY.

She's a woman. Women like to show off the bod. She actually does so LESS than most girls on IG, so I don't think JP is losing any sleep anytime soon.

[–]VolatileEnemy 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Yeah and it's not abnormal to have some attention-seeking in women.

[–]DrMrJrSr 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Exactly, it's natural in both genders. I now see why many guys get stuck in their anger phase, they read things like, "keep your woman/daughter on a leash and take no shit" and then they sperg that shit to kingdom come, then will blast the forums with "WHY ARE WOMEN SUCH ____!?" You created your monster, now live with it.

You can't fucking Mountain Man everything, guys need to also learn how to finesse.

[–]VolatileEnemy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

RP itself is so complex. Most people here are not even doing as well as they claim. The resources themselves are not even that excellent sometimes. You get tidbits like squeezing juice from rocks sometimes from more experienced RPers and your own experiences over the years that you figure out yourself.

And it can't just be one-dimensional. You have to be self-improving too. And it's not because of women only, it's because of the economics of it. Hot women are in high demand and we aren't the ones going after those ugly fat chicks.

Just simple things, like being stoic, calm, acting high-value with abundance mentality... can in itself make you also look like a loser who doesn't have social skills. The finesse is important. The details are too important.

But even if an experienced man says "such and such worked" it's hard to separate that from the circumstances of the relative SMV economics (or attractiveness physically) at play between the experienced man and the value of the women that it worked on.

Worse than all of that, girls are complex. Sometimes they're uptight or anxious or would rather be home watching netflix, they're not all even riding any carousel. Sometimes they're just taking themselves out of the market.

[–]perdipp 24 points25 points  (33 children)

she's married and hence can 'do anything she wants'.

He isn't necessarily TRP. And in his own vast mind probably didn't see it as an issue to begin with.

And one thing we know about disobedience and disrespect is that it grows over time so yeah JPB prob failed on that part as his daughter goes around posting semi nudes with her child in the name of diets and stuff. Maybe JBP was kind and unrestricting to her as she had to go through a lot as a child?

Question is, what could a man do to prevent such things from happening? Like, to raise a emotionally healthy daughter who doesn't need validation like that.

[–]LethalShade 7 points8 points  (2 children)

Do we really think posting an Instagram bikini pic once in a while is a huge red flag? I mean as long as it's not an every week type of thing and she thrives off the attention, seems like a pretty normal thing to do.

[–]VolatileEnemy 5 points6 points  (0 children)

It is normal. Men post all the time for validation too. In fact, some of them, might even be posting self-posts about their ideas about the world for attention. And that's not that crazy.

[–]jordanbadland -2 points-1 points  (29 children)

for one, be the fucking man

That means commanding respect at least in your own home. If you can't stop your daughter from bringing shame onto the family name, and by extension your brand, you aren't a real patriarch -- just a provider.

[–]ITS_A_MINDSET 7 points8 points  (6 children)

How is it shameful? She is a woman attracting attention for being a woman. It's what women do. She's enjoying her health and broadcasting it, why wouldn't she? Is she to wear a burka?

[–]jordanbadland 0 points1 point  (5 children)

You think it's natural for women to be half naked in front of a massive audience? Well then I hope your next LTR does exactly this super natural thing, and you better support her bro, it's naaaatuuraaaal

[–]DrMrJrSr 1 point2 points  (0 children)

In the land of the Red's , there once lived a strawman named u/jordanbadland ...

[–]ITS_A_MINDSET 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Mate guarding wont help ya dude. It's just your turn.

[–]Timthetiny 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Yes it's natural you moron. We didnt even have clothes for 500000 years.

[–]perdipp 1 point2 points  (19 children)

what if you over suppress your children and they turn out to be rebels in the end? so she's nice and cute and out of the blue decides to go crazy rebel against you, that'd be terrible as well

[–]jordanbadland 18 points19 points  (18 children)

You fucking pussies don't get it.

If they don't respect you, it's over.

It doesn't matter if you tried being controlling, or if you tried being liberal. You must command respect as the patriarch.

Downvote me all you want, the truth's the truth. You either don't believe men are capable of doing that, or you're ideologically possessed to oppose the idea. Either way is weakness that the head of a family can not afford.

edit I fucking love you liberals, downvote but have no argument. Especially since what I'm saying is TRP coherent, and what you're believing is some liberal cope shit. Yes, yes faggots, don't dominate your own fucking house, what's more important than anything else is to allow your daughter to be a public whoreshow, that's right

[–]perdipp 5 points6 points  (5 children)

I like your point on how we should stand up as parents brother no need to act angry calling me names. And dont mind the 2 3 people that downvoted you you're not even on minus score, shit. I was just honestly asking about different scenarios as I myself don't know how to act in those.

so to sum your point, either we can control our children or we can't?

Well this is trp and maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree. But I'll try my best to get my point across(point out where I'm wrong if I am in my understanding of TRP):

TRP dreads marriage, let alone raising children(for a lot of reasons and I get it). You say you're TRP coherent so what are your exact views on how to deal with the question I posed before

what if you over suppress your children and they turn out to be rebels in the end? so she's nice and cute and out of the blue decides to go crazy rebel against you, that'd be terrible as well

We know that over suppressing children has historically turned out wrong. But leaving them loose is just as bad. Isn't there a strategy or principles in place that helps us handle this case? Like how to raise healthy children and not have to suffer whore daughters and degenerate sons despite trying our best?

[–]jordanbadland 9 points10 points  (4 children)

No, no dude you definitely asked a legit question. It's a real issue that has turned many a cute girl into a thotmonster because her overprotective daddy kept her from the forbidden dick for too long.

My take on this is simple: you can be laid back, or have a firm grip over them. Both can go right or wrong. What it depends on is whether or not you can command their respect.

Whether or not they view your actions and by extension your character as one of consequence and power, or not.

It's okay, for example, if your kids want to know reasons for why they can't do a certain thing. But if they can't accept a "no" ever, then they don't respect you. If you putting your foot down is nothing but an empty thump on the ground for them, you've failed.

[–]MoDuReddit 6 points7 points  (2 children)

putting your foot down is nothing but an empty thump on the ground for them

Modern parenting in a nutshell. Remember when "I'm gonna tell your father!" sent shivers down your spine, so you'd stop being a insufferable cunt?

[–]UniversalFapture 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes!!! I do remember the shivers it sent down my spine.

[–]RPmatrix 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You must command respect as the patriarch.

That's no "truth"! That Truth is;

"respect is earned, not 'given' (nor 'commanded')

you've been watching too much warporn sunshine (or are you just "ideologically possessed to oppose the idea.?")

[–]RPmatrix 0 points1 point  (0 children)

IF you're not a Man 'in the street'

you'll never be one at home

[–]Einzakin 18 points19 points  (3 children)

You gave up on Jordan because of something his daughter did? He can't even control his own daughter who is like 25? The fuck lol. You need to stop being so sensitive.

[–]DownyGall 13 points14 points  (4 children)

Yeah, Roosh pointed out her Instagram and Jordan Peterson even likes some of the photos. Like, dude, that’s your daughter and she has a kid now. She’s attention whoring which JP should be against

[–]jordanbadland 6 points7 points  (1 child)

he did? can you point me to that?

[–]DownyGall 3 points4 points  (0 children)

It was in one of his recent Roosh Lives at the beginning when he talks about current events

[–]mugatucrazypills 4 points5 points  (1 child)

quite a few other "giants of the manosphere", are also overexposed here and have their own band of loyal cocksuckers.

There's as much or more cliff-claven style posturing than learning going on here these days.

[–]Starfuckingman 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The man could try his best really but given the way the world it is now, high schools and college and her friends most probably will always end up being the bigger influence. Kids always like to rebel on their parents ideas around certain age. Not a big fan of Peterson but I had to comment on that daughter thing, like I've been trying to subtly influence my little brother for over a year now and only with little results.

[–]thebluesSV 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Holy shit she is hot thanks for the tip hahaha

[–]smokinniles 1 point2 points  (0 children)

What??? This fails to make reasonable sense on many levels. Posting bikini pics leads to moral degradation leads to lack of validity of subject’s father’s assertions? What a mess. Based on a lot of the comments here, folks wouldn’t know what the fuck to do with what JP is putting out there anyways, so might as well ban conversations about any of it.

[–]dani098 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Sadly this comment will miss most people

[–]Endorsed Contributorsadomasochrist 3 points4 points  (1 child)

lit·er·al·ly

lidərəlē,ˈlitrəlē

adverb: literally

in a literal manner or sense; exactly. "the driver took it literally when asked to go straight across the traffic circle"

synonyms: exactly, precisely, actually, really, truly;

informal used for emphasis or to express strong feeling while not being literally true. "I have received literally thousands of letters"

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 20 points21 points  (1 child)

Oh no, hyperbole. The common sperg's only weakness!

[–]TRP VanguardHumanSockPuppet 3 points4 points  (0 children)

/u/redpillschool used SpergBait!

It's super effective!

[–]TheTrotters 0 points1 point  (5 children)

Using “literally” as an intensifier is perfectly fine.

[–]juliuscsir 11 points12 points  (3 children)

Some might feel the need to cite an external source when making such a declaration. I envy your boldness.

[–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor 9 points10 points  (2 children)

Except when it's deliberate hyperbole?

I really don't understand why the JP fluffers can't work with abstract concepts and language. There is a very deliberate reason why we do this. It's how you add context to statements and imperatives. It's why literature is more than a procedural narrative about how to buy a loaf of bread, kill a big whale or fuck your Amish neighbor. It's what gives discourse power and point.

[–]endertheend 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Its not just the JP cultists that do this, 99% of redditors don't get Hyperbole, and use that not getting it to try and make it into an argument.

I ignore those people, the moment they start basing their argument on a deliberate hyperbole not being $100%!TrUeFaCtsS! It's a big tell that they have:

a)lost the argument

b)can not figure out a way to reason with the person without resorting to veiled soy-ish like passive aggressiveness

I see this stuff on reddit every time I visit the site. Not many people call redditors out on this either.

This is why, apart from a few subs, I don't take reddit seriously. People in real life don't do this.

[–]Endorsed ContributorRuleZeroDAD 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Well fuck it. I'm never washing my dick again.

[–]BoilingBleach 31 points32 points  (0 children)

I don't think mentioning inspiration from his ideas and statistics is that retarded, at the end of the day his schoolar page is good AF.

But yeah the cock suckery needs to stop, specially in mate selection this guy has 0 ide wtf is he talking about.

I think even a beta loser can see that from his lectures about it. Just does not match reality and have no predictive capability, as a scientist you'd think he would notice that :/

Btw as a side note I think people coning from the Peterson camp would be easier to unplug than the average chump, not my goal but just saying

[–]MapleOrangeHotDogs 58 points59 points  (12 children)

"If your idea has merit, you can present it with respect, and without condescension. Further, you can do so without including a detailed video of you literally sucking JP's dick while doing so."

These are the most ironic sentences ever written.

[–][deleted]  (37 children)

[deleted]

[–]Endorsed ContributorWe_Are_Legion 76 points77 points  (17 children)

I actually read it out of curiousity and didn't dislike it. I'll start with the pros first, because I think I understand why he became a cult after reading this book.

A fair praise I could give him is that he has unique insights (at least in his field of study) and the book itself is passionately written and well-intentioned. It definitely has helpful guidance.

My personal favourite part of the book was the bit about raising young people. I really thought those chapters deserved to be an addendum to "NO MORE MR. NICE GUY". They were very good and succinct parenting advice, for both boys and girls.

But the really unique bit of the book wasn't the good advice, but the way he used his PhD study to relate the advice, symbolism, religions, evolutionary events, and the human psyche into an unexpectedly plausible narrative. The sense of "aha!" rivaled when I first read TRP. This is where I think the cult following starts. JP manages to weave together a story from western/biblical traditions which often relates very well to the human condition. By extension, he has weaved together a story that relates to your life, your suffering and your feelings about it. He validates your feelings and makes sense of it, along with giving you a few good rules to manage that pain in future.

Once he's firmly in a position of explaining human suffering, he also starts giving "meaning" to our suffering by putting it in a context of a larger world. He has achieved a lot by expanding the horizons of the way people think about their lives. But it may be an unfortunate coincidence, that the context he puts your life into is a tradcon view of the world. He uses and validates a lot of Christian biblical and Cold-War era tradcon messages in his book, meaning that this book, along with his online presence, has an easy time urging people (men in particular) to be warriors for tradcon. Even if I were a total fan, I would not have a hard time claiming that Jordan Peterson is like my favourite pastor.

Cold War-era tradcon vs millennial nihilism (or worse, post-modernism) is an easy win for tradcon.

So far, none of this is neccessarily bad. Religion and traditions always served a useful function. And its not like the book is horrible.

So, now here are the negatives:

His fans are still losers.

And I say that with the utmost compassion. If you are in a bad place in your life, and you are taking action, I applaud you.

Removing the bit about the "lobster" (in the spirit of TRP, I'll ignore the bad metaphor and address the point), his point about the dominance hierarchy is probably the most useful and foundational bit of personal improvement advice he gives in the book.

It boils down to "if you're a loser, you'll feel bad. If you stay a bottom 80% loser and allow life and people to bully you and you adopt NICE GUY tactics, you'll keep feeling bad."

But the fact is, this is blatantly obvious to most people... except to those its not. "No More Mr. Nice Guy" would be just as good a book to recommend you as "12 rules". And though I'm happy that men who are really at the bottom of society are getting a diagnosis on their problem, phrased in a way that they can understand... but these people are often just waking up. They are often teenagers and young 20-somethings who, uptil now, were wandering aimless through life. When JP gave them meaning, they become fired up, and start treating him as an authority. Why? They get their sense of identity from what he's made sense of from their lives.

Few selected examples of JP statements which some people draw their sense of identity from, and get attached to and feel the need to defend:

  • JP says you are low in the dominance hierarchy and that's why you feel like shit. Therefore, people get committed to climbing the hierarchy in the way they feel he and his fanbase prescribed it. (rites of passage, heroes journey).

  • JP says you were raised badly because your parents didn't shape your instincts. Therefore, they get committed to shaping their instincts, in the proper way. And respecting and looking to traditional culture on how to do it.

  • JP says "evil comes about when you make sacrifices which aren't repaid". And you can relate that to your own failures and the resulting resentment... and so you resolve not to be evil by giving up behaviours you feel are motivated by resentment (like PUA). You even try to not be resentful when your efforts end in failure (prompting you to reject TRP and its "misogyny" as bad and beneath you).

  • JP says "pursue what is meaningful, not what is expedient". Some even resolve to continue failing in the meaningful way rather than take the expedient success (which is BS).

  • JP says tell the truth, and so they often speak up. And try to dissuade "evil" in others.

The only problem is these people are prescribing advice when they themselves are nowhere, and so their words are often an appeal deeper into Daddy Peterson. This is transparent to others. A word to the wise, take your own JP's advice: "Set your house in perfect order before you criticize the world."

Many of you are just waking up and, maybe just like JP's own clinically insane patient "Miss S" from chapter 9 ("Rule 9: ASSUME THAT THE PERSON YOU ARE LISTENING TO MIGHT KNOW SOMETHING YOU DON’T"), you also have always been desperately searching for meaning and a cause, like an empty vessel. Be humble to the idea that you are impressionable. You would benefit more from talking and listening to people's reactions rather than throwing around rape accusations like Miss S. So don't start preaching just yet. We say you are only purple-pilled yet, for good reason. Its true that JP has very eloquently diagnosed some of your deepest problems and given you some shred of meaning to your life's suffering, but he still does not deserve you as a mindless follower... No one does! (and least of all for proselytizing his particular brand of tradcon)

...While he offers insights, the deepest lesson to the people who have been awed by what he showed you is: THERE IS MORE TO LEARN. AND YOU CAN BE AMAZED AT WHAT YOU STILL DO NOT KNOW.

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

[deleted]

    [–]MoDuReddit 6 points7 points  (0 children)

    True and there's value in what he's doing. Still not a reason for the JP spam hose we've been getting.

    [–]Tuga_Lissabon 6 points7 points  (0 children)

    Very good notes.

    I'll just add the following, for most people out there, even a mediocre recipe is 10x better than what they currently have.

    Sometimes it is enough to take conscience; or learn that there are words for some concepts already boiling to the surface; or just that you're not alone, and there is a way forward.

    If nothing else, people get external validation for their efforts of self-raising (like flour, but less carbs people) and this encourages them; and they're at a stage they need that encouragement.

    I'd say the main lesson for beginner TRPers and JP fans is: you need to improve, but you can improve, and here is a possible path to start on.

    When you are better and more advanced, you may see a far superior path, and jump to it, even feeling "how the hell I could have been so wrong?".

    But it is wrong to despise the old path; it was there, it took you somewhere, and maybe it was what you could understand at the time. Leave it there for others to follow.

    This applies both to JP and TRP (in its varied shapes and trends).

    As for JP in particular: he is raising issues and making noise in the right quadrant. He is being quite useful.

    [–]vanillachakrithunder 11 points12 points  (1 child)

    You are either incredibly intelligent and perceptive or in a similar situation because you have described me(peterson fan) very well.

    [–]fellanH 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    I love this.

    [–]spistruth 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    What a great breakdown. Thanks a lot for this, it might just save a person close to me who has turned into mindless JP bigot.

    [–]RedHoodhandles 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    I come here for posts like this.

    [–]3nebder 1 point2 points  (6 children)

    Is it worth getting the book for the parenting part alone?

    [–]Endorsed ContributorWe_Are_Legion 2 points3 points  (2 children)

    Its a good book for what it tries to be. I don't want to give the impression that its trash because that would just be lying or unfair. We may not perfectly agree with JP's Cold War era tradcon ideology but he's created a strong and insightful life advice manual from it nonetheless. I think it is worth examining, even if I personally agree with TRP that I don't want to follow tradcon as an ideology in this age (because there are no real rewards anymore).

    My mind won't explode from reading a different opinion.

    BUT YOU HAVE TO HAVE A CRITICAL MIND. So far, the only thing that makes the JP cultural phenomenon insufferable is his audience of Blue Pill young people.

    Whisper wrote some excellent posts on critical thinking that JP fans need to read first: (TheRedPill )/comments/8pz9m3/go_out_and_test_it/
    (TheRedPill )/comments/97f0kh/distrust_that_particular_flavour/

    [–]mugatucrazypills 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    I don't want to follow tradcon as an ideology in this age (because there are no real rewards anymore).

    this is the gist of it. he's a conservative, which is certianly better than a cultural marxist as he would say. but his advice to man up doesn't make sense if all that's on the LTR menu is feminist hambeasts in the kingdom of divorcerape ... goes from a practical, pragmatic life philosophy to a "hope and wishful thinking as a strategy" right there

    "well my marriage worked because of conservatism(for lack of better word)",from peterson is a paticularly shallow 1-data point argument/analysis on petersons part, since he's so high relative SMV (professor with tenure and money,+fame etc) vs wife who is a massage therapist. Which is why he can really do what he wants.

    [–]3nebder 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Solid feedback. JP was a useful stepping stone along my personal path. Didn’t take long to put 2 & 2 together that he’s pushing tradcon hard when I listened to his work.

    I enjoyed his biblical series and maps of meaning podcasts. That material is from before he caught the attention of the world when he pushed back on pronouns. I don’t feel that work has the same agenda now that he’s becoming something like an anti-feminism figurehead in the public spotlight.

    [–]1-Fidelio- 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    On the one hand, his parenting ideas sound like good sense. On the other hand, I saw his daughter on the joe rogan experience and I'm not sure I'd be a proud parent.

    [–]3nebder 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Those are two separate issues. Unsure where you are in life. If you’re younger, I’m sure you can think of many times you went against your parents and it turned out how they said. I distinctly remember in my my mid 20s thinking fuuuuuuck most of the things my parents said was legit and good advice.

    You only have so much control over your children. At the end of the day they are humans with free will. All you can do is give them reasonably solid decision making systems.

    [–]WeedWizardDusk 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Tl;dr

    Cringed when I saw the all caps bold “they’re all losers”

    [–]3LiveAFTSOV 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Jordan Peterson says tell the truth?

    I say lie your fucking ass off if it gets you what you want?

    [–]novalentineforyou 13 points14 points  (0 children)

    I read it, and it has been insanely helpful and practical. It has a lot of original ideas.

    [–]finizzle 40 points41 points  (0 children)

    I’m reading it right now and enjoying it. I agree that he isn’t up to date on the modern dating scene, but his other ideas I find insightful. The red pill is primarily a dating thing, so that’s why a lot of people here are against his ideas.

    [–]jtarb 4 points5 points  (1 child)

    Maps of Meaning is better.

    [–]CloserCoffee 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    I agree, but it's quite a slog in the middle.

    [–]Swampbastard696968 3 points4 points  (1 child)

    I stopped reading - I thought it was pretentious word salad. There’s hundreds of simpler to the point books with actionable steps I would rather spend my time reading.

    [–]Thinkingard 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    If you like to read some intellectual waxing on and on about weird psychology shit then this book is for you! If you want actionable self-help then look elsewhere. After awhile I found every chapter to get increasingly annoying. It was like I was reading an amateur book on mythology and theology. It was nothing like what I was expecting, and it quickly turned me off to anything JP again.

    [–]Senior Endorsed ContributorCopperFox3c 41 points42 points  (23 children)

    Speaking as a practicing PhD scientist, I like Peterson in general, but here's the issue:

    All of Peterson's thoughts on male-female sexual dynamics when it comes to dating are based on armchair philosophy.

    In contrast, actual science is based on collectable observation and data. But Peterson has no "data", because he's spent his entire life with one girl, and he isn't a sex or relationship researcher. In fact, I would argue that TRP contains more observational evidence than Peterson's ideas do.

    He's fine when is talking about symbolism or clinical psychology, but just cause he is an authority on those topics, doesn't make him any more qualified to speak on other topics. When he veers off of to those others, he is in essence talking about his own beliefs on the subjects. And people worshiping him as an authority on all topics because he is an authority on a few are not engaging in "science" ... but rather scientism, which is a fundamental misunderstanding of knowledge.

    So you kids need to understand that is what we are trying to stamp out here, not free speech, but the bastardization of rational thought.

    [–]Senior Endorsed ContributorVasiliyZaitzev 37 points38 points  (5 children)

    Peterson's approach is philosophical, not practical. Nobody should make that mistake. JP isn't about helping guys get laid, he's about, as /u/sour_jesus put it "Building Better Betas". That said, he is building betas out of omegas, so in that sense, he's doing the Lord's work.

    [–]spistruth 3 points4 points  (1 child)

    Who are the omegas?

    [–]clausternn 6 points7 points  (0 children)

    Incels I guess

    [–]novalentineforyou 17 points18 points  (15 children)

    If a psychologist cannot speak with some credibility about human sexual behavior, then who do you think can?

    [–]Senior Endorsed ContributorCopperFox3c 8 points9 points  (12 children)

    David Buss. Maybe Alfred Kinsey. People who actually study the psychology of sexual behavior.

    But that's beside the point. What most people don't seem to realize is that science is a human endeavor, and thus prone to all the shortcomings, biases, and foibles of any human. Scientists are no exception.

    [–]novalentineforyou 10 points11 points  (8 children)

    Don't go so far as to say that humans can't know anything because of how flawed we are.

    I think Peterson knows a great deal about sexual behavior, but that isn't his academic focus. People should listen to him to get their life in order and find meaning in life, not to direct their dating life. What he says about marriage and children is largely guided by the idea that 2/3 of what will matter to your life is your wife and children, and that doesn't become any less personally important or meaningful because it is hard in 2018 to accomplish those things well.

    [–]Endorsed ContributorKeffirLime 6 points7 points  (7 children)

    People should listen to him to get their life in order and find meaning in life

    Jordan Peterson is telling you what meaning is, he's not here to help you find meaning for yourself. His prescription for meaning is outdated.

    and that doesn't become any less personally important or meaningful because it is hard in 2018 to accomplish those things well.

    Yes, it simply makes it a poor prescription.

    [–]novalentineforyou 4 points5 points  (6 children)

    he's not here to help you find meaning for yourself

    Yes he is. Most of the time he talks about what statistically gives meaning for 95% of people, but he occasionally mentions that, for example, not every woman needs to have kids to be happy and not every man needs to have a partner and children to have a fully fulfilling life.

    it simply makes it a poor prescription.

    Man, humans are probably biologically adapted so as to derive most of their meaning and long term psychological health from having a partner and children. That stuff takes thousands of years to change at the genetic level. Men will not be physiologically content to live without a long term partner and fostering children merely because feminism and birth control got invented in the past 50 years.

    [–]Endorsed ContributorKeffirLime 1 point2 points  (4 children)

    Statistically like marriage? That institution that over 50% of adults are now choosing not to partake in. And of those who partake more than half end in divorce. The one where couples who were unmarried report happier levels than those who do get married?

    Not at all if you want to look at our biological origins, men are built more to spread their seed, and women are built more to select. To prescribe the same strategy for both is not wise.

    Not to say you can’t have a long term partner and be happy, it can be done, but certainly doesn’t require Jordan’s prescription of marriage and one men can certainly be happy with multiple women.

    [–]novalentineforyou 2 points3 points  (2 children)

    You're not going to spread your seed when you're 50 and bald. At least not with anyone who you're not paying.

    [–]Endorsed ContributorKeffirLime 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    You can comfortably have a relationship without being married too.

    [–]bucSlayer 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Wat the fuck is this shit. If you're dying when you hit 50 is your problem, weak fuck.

    [–]BatemaninAccounting 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Most people around the world still get married or have a very long lasting relationship at least once in their life time. Most divorces are actually from people getting their 2nd/3rd/4th divorces. This skews the divorce statistic by quite a lot. The average age of a first marriage is 8 years and the average age of a second marriage is 10 years(people tend to make less mistakes or pick a better long term partner the second time around.)

    Traditionally most tribal cultures studied around the world are and we suspect historically were polyamorous, meaning men and women within the tribal community fucked to some degree. Some amazonian and Papua New Guinea tribes have been documented to have orgies at certain lunar cycles where everyone just fucks everyone. It wasn't until we started the agricultural revolution that women started being more selective. Considering that modern women are being less selective(in that your average woman has had more male partners than women in the past), this would be further evidence that biologically speaking women like to 'spread their seed' just as much as men.

    [–]bucSlayer 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Men are biologically wired to impregnate as many women as possible. Now go back to the bluepill sub.

    [–]1-Fidelio- 6 points7 points  (1 child)

    Kinsey! Ha I laughed. People who lie about their research should never be trusted to speak authoritively on the subject.

    [–]DocMerlin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    This.
    Taking Kinsey as an authority on sexual psychology is insane.

    [–]womans_algorithm 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    Eventhough JP doesn't have PHD in psychology of sexual behavior, wasn't he a therapist (or something along those line) for not so few years? To me, that's even more important than some paper from college. It's practical knowledge that he learned from all of his cases.

    [–]LethalShade 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    He doesn't study or specialize in human sexual behavior though. Of course, it would be a part of his practice but a small part if anything.

    [–]novalentineforyou 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Sure he doesn't. Neither does anyone who writes significantly for this board (not in a way that can approach scientific study or scientific specialty). That's the nature of the game.

    [–]Luckylancer96 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    I watched a lecture that is parallel with trp. He was explaining a research on what is desirable for short term mate selection(smv). Women's smv was %90 fertility markers (low weight+beauty+youth). In other hand men's smv markers were much diverse, I cant remembsr them right now.

    He says agreeableness and neurotism are negatively correlated with atractiveness.

    I click on his videos at YT when it is suggested time to time so I am not a big follower or fan but what he was saying makes sense to me.

    [–][deleted]  (1 child)

    [removed]

    [–]sour_jesus 35 points36 points  (7 children)

    With all the good Peterson did he's just Building Better Betas. He married his high-school oneitis, doesn't even entertain the concept of validational sex... No need to prove the point further.

    [–]Senior Endorsed ContributorVasiliyZaitzev 38 points39 points  (6 children)

    One has to understand who Peterson is, and what his goals are. I don't hate TradCons because, as and older guy who is established, I can move to' and fro' among them and they don't seem to mind that I defile young women because "eventually" I will see the light, etc.

    Also, Peterson delivers shiv after shiv to the Leftoids and, well, the enemy of my enemy, etc. That said, he's not "red pill" pill so much as TradCon and probably thinks, like the rest of us, that Justin Trudeau's lips have tasted cock. But yeah, he is, at bottom, a TradCon and your "Building Better Betas" point is spot on.

    [–]1-Fidelio- 2 points3 points  (5 children)

    The enemy of your enemy is still your enemy. Somehow he is welcome on a huge tour of leftist media. You have to ask why.

    He claimed that the left wasn't willing to debate any of their stances, because they had no argument. He has refused every debate with people who are more on the right than him. Implicitly this means that he knows he has no argument against those on the right of him.

    Couple that with his history at harvard and podesta UN think tank and you're left with someone who is most likely a pied piper to keep people tied to a moderate right.

    [–]Senior Endorsed ContributorVasiliyZaitzev 19 points20 points  (0 children)

    Given a choice between a world populated by centre-right TradCons or SJW fuglies who hate me and want me dead, I will take that first group, all day long. The worst they want to do to me is fix me up with a "nice" girl.

    I don't view JP as a "messiah" but I do enjoy his bitch-slapping of the Left and as I noted, he's doing the Lord's work by helping omegas become betas.

    [–]AltBuzzer 0 points1 point  (3 children)

    He is welcome in leftist media because he is, as others have put it, "building better betas." When you turn an omega into a beta, you've turned something resembling a parasite into a worker drone. The powers that be want men to be betas. If Peterson was turning betas into alphas, he would likely be far less welcome on these programs.

    [–]immibis 1 point2 points  (2 children)

    Jordan Peterson? Welcomed in leftist media?

    That's the dumbest thing I've heard all day.

    [–]Captain_pants4 14 points15 points  (0 children)

    Peterson is purple at best

    [–]jfkfinn 4 points5 points  (1 child)

    Jordan talks some good shit! But pussy is pussy and there was nothing in the 12 rules that told you how to destroy the illusion of modern beta game.. the two work together “RPT” and 12 rules.. because they both involve self control and a stoic mindset... but pussy is pussy!

    [–]Spider-Dude1 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    They both start off with the same principal which is that of self improvement, focusing on the self. Which is, in my opinion, the thing that separates them from the likes of motivational speakers. Both TRP and JBP say that one must have their immediate necessities ( home, body, income) in order before fulfilling your goals.

    [–]surfsusa 9 points10 points  (3 children)

    If there is one think a man should get from Peterson. Is the 1st rule from 12 Rules. "Stand up straight with your shoulders back" I can not tell you how many men walk around hunched over looking down. I noticed that I did this some times. As soon as I started standing up straight and walking with my shoulders back I found it hard to do. I wanted to walk the way I always did. I am 6ft tall and I noticed a lot of guys 6ft an over walk kind hunched over. I am not sure if it was that they don't want to stick out and want to blend in, but is signals lack of confidence. It took me weeks to get the habit broken but I noticed quick results. More eye contact from women and women will say hi to me with out me initiating the conversation. I feel more confident too. It sort of sets up a feedback loop of validation, the more you do it the more you get results and the easier it becomes.

    [–]1Sir_Distic 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    This is something I'm currently working on as well. Head up, spine straight, chest out, shoulders back. It still feels odd from a lifetime of hunched over and looking at the ground as I walk.

    But damn if it doesn't feel confident. Once it becomes habit I know I won't have to "Fake it til I make it."

    [–]surfsusa 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    You will start to notice that people (Women) will notice you and look at you differently. They will Smile , Say Hi an increase of IOI.

    [–]AltBuzzer 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    I remember when I resolved to walk with better posture. One day a girl just said "hi" in passing and it completely took me by surprise. If you're in a shitty mood, remember to keep your posture confident.

    [–]Deus_Vultan 9 points10 points  (0 children)

    What better place to bring some of what Jp preach? He has more balls and brains than most people i encounter. Allot of what he says can already be found here, he just uses words normies understand and a reasoning that is easy to follow.

    [–]TheBadGoy 4 points5 points  (2 children)

    "The university intellectuals also play an important role in carrying out the System's trick. Though they like to fancy themselves independent thinkers, the intellectuals are (allowing for individual exceptions) the most oversocialized, the most conformist, the tamest and most domesticated, the most pampered, dependent, and spineless group in America today. As a result, their impulse to rebel is particularly strong. But, because they are incapable of independent thought, real rebellion is impossible for them. Consequently they are suckers for the System's trick, which allows them to irritate people and enjoy the illusion of rebelling without ever having to challenge the System's basic values"

    [–]Jake_le_Dog 6 points7 points  (0 children)

    I wrote a comment for the Linus Torvalds thread and realized I was using the terms I learned from Peterson. It's just a politically correct way of describing alpha. (PC is something I despise). I mean the term's correct in its sense, but it's becoming a meme. A meme used by those who don't really understand it.

    The comment didn't sound like my own thoughts, and I realized that right after posting the comment. It might have not been my own thought without me even realizing it. So I get this ban threat.

    Although I don't know if I agree with censorship. The Chans work because you can't censor them. To really stupid ideas sometimes you'll find good counter-arguments that may sway a reader's/participant's mind towards the reasonable.

    [–]wapakalypsek 5 points6 points  (1 child)

    Jordan Peterson is not the hero we deserve, he is the hero we need...

    [–]HandsomeCub 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Upvoted because this made laugh hard

    [–]Endorsed ContributorMentORPHEUS 6 points7 points  (2 children)

    I wished for this when I saw the "DOCTOR Jordan Peterson sez" post yesterday.

    [–]Endorsed ContributorJamesSkepp 7 points8 points  (1 child)

    I didn't even bothered to read the contents of the post once I read "Dr." in the title.

    [–]Endorsed Contributorex_addict_bro 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    This is why scientists decided to have "MD, PhD" after the name.

    [–]ArchetypicalDegen 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    The thing that gripes me about Jordan Peterson is he often says "x is bad and needs to be avoided" without actually necessarily describing why.

    [–]SgtBrutalisk 6 points7 points  (12 children)

    JP married his high school sweetheart, thus most of his advice doesn't seem to apply to modern men, especially those insistent on dating. He's also constantly high on amphetamines (Wellbutrin).

    BTW, this should be added to the Official Rules link in the sidebar.

    [–]tempolaca 21 points22 points  (8 children)

    Also he's a highly depressive person. But this is really ad-hominem. He could be very well a gay trans amputee, and his ideas can be still valid.

    The thing is that JP want to help improve the society. TRP want to improve men's life. RP concepts, plating, etc. ends up destroying society. Purple-pill JP concepts will produce a society with lots of families having lots of babies, in the end, they will out-fuck and out-breed a RP society.

    [–]SasquatchMcKraken 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    I'm lukewarm on Peterson and I generally despise his fanboys, but you've highlighted an important difference. Do we encourage, or "enjoy," the decline while only paying lip service to our distaste for it, or do we push back against it and seek alternatives. Do you eat the bowl of shit while loudly (and unconvincingly) claiming to dislike the taste, or do you reject it and try to put something else on the menu? Most of the TRP, from what I've seen, falls in the former camps. I'm personally slowly moving towards the latter. In that respect I guess I'm moving closer to Peterson.

    [–]1-Fidelio- 7 points8 points  (3 children)

    JP doesn't want to help improve society; he wants to prevent the much needed revolution. Yes, revolutions are bloody, they're painful, they're horrible. But they're prefferable to becoming more like cattle as the path that we're on. When you're very sick, you need a very strong medicine. Our society is very sick. He's proposing mild home-cleaning. You don't need mild homecleaning. You need radical change and the willingness to set yourself as an outcast of this sick culture, because socialising towards the sickness just makes you sicker.

    Do we need lots of families and lots of babies? Yes.

    But we won't outbreed the invaders even if we tried. We're not biologically identical. We have different traits, different genetics and this root of genetics creates different cultures and mating strategies. Peterson is unwilling to address either the threat of islam to europe, or population replacement in the united states.

    It's remarkable the things that Peterson refuses to say, address or answer in regards to this and he no longer does open Q&A at events because of this. The man has a hidden agenda and it's to make sure you fall in line rather than make a difference.

    [–]poohead3 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Read SIEGE by James Mason.

    [–]WeedWizardDusk 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    You’re just too far gone you’re projecting your belief that your psyche is too fragile for subtle change onto society and you just want to watch everything burn like a crazy fuck

    [–]1-Fidelio- 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Yes, emotionally laden accusations surely discredit me.

    I may dislike JP and you may dislike the fact that I dislike him, but I can at least articulate why I dislike him and why I consider the core of his beliefs and presciptions to be harmful to the people who believe them.

    You should articulate the why of your thoughts, so that your comments will have substantive content... because I assume that there is a why behind that. Because the assumption that people know something I myself don't know is one of the good ideas of jordan peterson. One of the ideas he uses to rope people in and consequently use his gatekeeping "intellectual dark web" to keep people from finding red pills that have the potential of healing our sick society.

    You can't heal cancer without either surgery or radiation treatment and you can't heal the sickness in western society by drinking some tea and mild excercise. Does that mean you shouldn't clean your room? Of course you should. But honestly it's far from radical enough an action as we need to collectively take.

    [–]Endorsed ContributorMentORPHEUS 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    Purple-pill JP concepts will produce a society with lots of families having lots of babies, in the end, they will out-fuck and out-breed a RP society.

    This is one of our biggest bones of contention with JP. He's selling his life history as a model to people starting a quarter century later than him, in a world that has changed so much it mostly dooms them to divorce rape/economic slavery.

    To some extent he's probably justifying and validating his own blue pill life history by steering today's young men toward marriage- for HIS good, not necessarily theirs or "society's."

    Reread The Tradcon Trap.

    [–]reluctantly_red 5 points6 points  (1 child)

    The thing is that JP want to help improve the society.

    This is a good thing. Being amoral is fine in theoretical debates, however, in real life guys actually do need a moral compass.

    [–]dslkjnavoiuweqrlkjas 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    I THINK she was his like elementary school sweetheart oneitis that he adored since childhood. They didn't start dating until she was in her mid-late twenties I believe so he was nice enough to let her ride the CC for a while and then settle down. Also she's bad genes.

    [–]fade2clear 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    What's the link between Wellbutrin and amphetamines? Just curious, because I tried it years ago and it made me so anxious and wired(not in a good way).

    [–]SgtBrutalisk 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    If memory serves WB belongs to amphetamine family. I couldn't find a source to that except Wikipedia's claim that WB can cause a person to test false positive on an amphetamine drug test.

    [–]NikolaGeorgiev 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Peterson is right about many things, but is not right about TRP (or is afraid to comment on it, it doesn't matter). Rollo Tomassi had some podcast about that. That's it.

    [–]st3roids 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    "Focus on incoherent vocabulary rather than a cogent thesis. The more nebulous, abstract or ethereal the idea the better. Does not in any way address TRP theories, even the ones it seeks to contradict. Usually goes on and on about the abstractly discrete hierarchies and their rules."

    that's the definition of social sciences

    [–]Master_Elrond 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    I always skipped the JP posts... I mean he's ok, sure, but never really understood the dick rideage.

    [–]Winterwolf98 6 points7 points  (0 children)

    After all of reddit, this mod dude is one of the few that I respect.

    [–][deleted]  (1 child)

    [removed]

    [–]SeasonedRP 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Thank you. He's a tradcon and academic poseur (psychology is hardly a rigorous field that makes one an expert on anything other than psycho-babble). His approach is couched in philosophy and mysticism but his message is the same as Bill Bennett and the other "man up and marry them" types.

    [–]uebermacht 7 points8 points  (1 child)

    Finally!

    This is why I really appreciate the TRP sub.
    It's a wolf pit.
    You are measured by your performance.
    If you suck, you will be eaten alive.
    If you are good, you will be rewarded.

    I remember a contribution written by /u/Whisper a half year ago about Jordan Peterson: Jordan Peterson is not your friend.

    [–]markahammond 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    It was getting ridiculous . Thank you.

    [–]si1ma31 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Can also add Mark Manson, even more nebulous bs but without the academic support.

    [–]Jyontaitaa 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Thank you.

    Jordan Peterson already has massive platform I don’t need to read about him here.

    [–]childpornfanboy 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    Another way JP is harmful is that he urges those not on the left to not play the identity politics game. He is 100% wrong. Anyone who is against liberalism and political correctness should play identity politics in order to win. JP is making things easier for the left by doing this. He also considers himself to be liberal. While he does present some good information, better to stay away.

    [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    He's a classic gatekeeper

    [–]basbobas 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    AGREED

    [–]Fulp_Piction 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    As another poster said - he builds better betas. He's 100% rational and doesnt consider the utility of Machavellianism.

    [–]Senior Contributordr_warlock 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Praise be to allah.

    [–]Patric_MasterBateman 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    [–]gorebwn 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    "Never use a dime word when a penny word will do"

    [–]abudun79 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Sounds like a personal thing. Most of the posts are intellectual diarrhea that only can Americans take serious. How could it be any different? It's all been said and done and there are not many RP related events that need to be discussed. Something needs to be posted to keep the sub alive...

    [–]Lkeacentipede 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    For the JP fans, consider that he said in Joe Rogan that he found a way to monitize the sjw's by constantly talking about their bullshit and seeing his patreon numbers skyrocket

    Imo, this guy managed to repackage the self help industry with a non-sissy cover.He most likely is not someone telling truths at all cost, but rather giving you the what you wanna hear

    [–]mrBatata 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    I agree with you.

    I personally don't mind if what one takes from JP is appropriately tought about and reflected upon as he definitely does make some good points moreover he is helping all this cuckery madness to stop or at least slow down.

    The problem as with the rest of society is the ridiculous amount of brainless zombies that spit shit out verbatim what he says. No one is going to do the thinking for you.

    Which brings me to my next point, that is not JP it is whatever is trending, and although we have great members that KNOW how to argue and how to be humble, our newcomers are far from it, as they do not even think about what they hear or read they just accept it and move to the next yt video.

    And this unfortunately is going to be only worse as people don't even know how to think critically. Heck even I don't think I do. Things like Indian whatsapp lynchings are going to be norm in a not so distant future. It's back to the dark ages but now it's not in an Orwellian way but in a Huxley way, we don't need censorship because we have so much information that it completely drowns us.

    [–]FlamingAmmosexual 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    I'd love to see Rollo and Peterson have a discussion. Peterson has talked about hypergamy and its problems on modern society a little bit but not much. I think him and Rollo could really expand on the subject.

    [–]1-Fidelio- 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    It might be a good idea to put this new rule into the official rules in the sidebar. That way new members that properly educate themselves to the rules, won't get caught unaware.

    [–]Just_a_Drunk_Gambler 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Wtf is that post. I can't downvote enough. Yeark

    [–]HeadingRed 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    If your answer can't be understood easily you don't have the answer.

    Yes there are times when you need a lot of words to deliver your message. Yes not everything can be boiled down to a twitter post. Much of the time if it takes you a long time to get to your point you don't have a point

    [–]ExternalKing 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    I like JP, he has a lot of useful things to say from the existencial angle (an angle that i haven't seen in RP) but ultimately he wants to send everyone back into the hands of cuckstianity - Which was the cause that got us into this mess in the first place. -

    [–]WayneForever2Wheels 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Lolololol Word Salad....!!! That's fuckin classic! Lololol I will use THAT one

    [–]glossies 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    lol. this is the sub that started out as a feminist parody; ie it's also a joke

    [–]haroldpeters -3 points-2 points  (1 child)

    Its interesting how you ban people for having different opinions. That reeks of blue pill to me. Surely having a dialogue is the best way to test those opinions and help people understand. I'll probably be banned for not agreeing to this ban-fest but who gives a fuck right.. reddits gone to shit anyways.

    [–]Modredpillschool[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Aww shucks, you didn't read the post but never let that stop you from having an opinion!

    Millennials, am I right?

    If your idea has merit, you can present it with respect, and without condescension.

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