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Rant/VentingLife is transactional, not a charity. (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by knowledgelover94

People are self interested by nature, not selfless. If you want things (which we all do), you must have something valuable to exchange to acquire it. Without having value or virtue, you mean nothing to others. People will only help you to the extent that it provides some kind of benefit to themselves.

Rebuttals: What about parents helping children? You are valuable to your parents because they see themselves in you. They don’t help other children nearly as much as they help you because you are theirs. You carry their blood and legacy, therefor there is nothing more beneficial to their interests than to help their children (even though it appears to be unconditional love and charity).

What about the government or actual charities? It’s pretty obvious that politicians are self interested, but the mechanisms of democracy and bribery get them to act for the people or for donors. There are some people that work hard helping others, but they get rewarded by the feeling and praise of helping others. Every culture has created values/ethics that glorify the one who benefits the community. This very well may have a survival advantage for the species, but make no mistake, charity is performed for the pleasure of feeling you’ve done good and the pleasure of approval from society.

Transactions applied to Women: Women will only have sex with men that they deem valuable. Different women value different things. You may attract a woman with a virtue, such as being good at sports, fighting, art, music, dancing, charisma/personality etc. She may also be attracted to your physical attractiveness, and usually both virtue and physicality are factored into her perception of value towards you (and a myriad of possible other things like wealth and status etc). Therefor, to increase success with women, you must work on both your virtues and your physical attractiveness. You don’t have to be good at everything, hone in on whatever skill you have. Then, look for women that value the skill you possess. Working out and eating right is the main thing men can do to improve physical attractiveness.

Contrasted with Blue Pill: Blue pill people believe in accepting who they are currently and that “good intentions” and “acting nice” will lead to success with women. They blame women when they’re not attracted or lose interest. They think women charitably choose men and hold onto men that nicely accept their charity. The truth is that “niceness and good intentions” are not valued by women very much (or by men). Think, would you fuck an ugly girl that has nothing going for herself if she was nice to you and wanted the best for you? No. Niceness and good relations come out of mutual benefit. Only when both parties are providing things that each other value does prosperity flourish.

Conclusion A blue pill person would read this and say that my outlook is what makes the world selfish and uncharitable. The truth is that everything in the world acts out of self interest regardless of wether you accept it or not. Selfishness is morally neutral, and the sooner we accept it, the sooner we can build arrangements with mutually benefits. It usually requires hard work though. This post can also help explain why Marxism is bullshit and capitalism is legit.

So, are we gonna swallow the blue pill and blame the world for not conforming to our ideals of compassion and charity, or swallow the red pill and strengthen ourselves to be valuable enough to make a favorable transaction?


[–]LucidCunning 124 points125 points  (14 children)

"Selfishness is morally neutral, and the sooner we accept it, the sooner we can build arrangements with mutual benefits."

I figured out a couple years ago that high levels selfishness and selflessness were essentially the same thing. What I mean is, if you are the extremely smart kind of selfish, you realize that the best way to get what you want is usually to give someone else what they want and mutually benefit. The short term may not be as beneficial but the long term almost always is. This is wisdom.

The Beatles sang it best. "And in the end the love you take is equal to the love you make."

[–]ThrowFader 28 points29 points  (2 children)

This right here. I find that working in my own best interest usually involves helping others, but in ways that are mutually productive, rather than detrimental to any party.

[–]MarquisDePaid 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Yea, not only that but the way you treat others will manifest in your own psyche

By this I mean you will project harmful, manipulative, exploitative intentions onto others if that is the way you choose to view the world

As an example of this: I would argue actually that many regular practices in the secular Jewish community, like "bagel-ing", primes their minds to mentally project and assume that other ethno-religious/racial groups of any sort are doing their own sort of "bagel" practice, which is why I believe there are so many absurd psychotic accusations of "white supremacist dog whistling" to the point wherein a political aide to Kavanaugh gets accused and her family threatened by idiotic leftists for an accidental "white power" resting hand gesture

[–]knowledgelover94[S] 12 points13 points  (1 child)

Absolutely!

I’ve always known that Beatles quote but never thought of how it applies to ideas like this. Come to think of it, that’s their very last words to end their career (besides “Her Majesty”).

[–]LucidCunning 4 points5 points  (0 children)

It's definitely my own interpretation of the lyrics, but I suspect if were were to able to feel the intent of Lennon/McCartney, it wouldn't be very far from the original mark.

[–]NormalAndy 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I’d also throw in the idea that the greatest gift you can give to the world is to be your best self.

Being selfish is good for the species as a whole.

[–]DrankOfSmell 10 points11 points  (2 children)

This is right here is the base for why I think only idiots actually need religion to be good people (note: I’m only commenting on morality here, not spirituality or community that may come with religion). If you’re not an idiot, you realize being a “good” and trustworthy person is actually the most beneficial thing you can do for yourself in the long run.

"If I didn't believe in god, I'd do all kinds of fucked up shit to people."

Okay, dumbass.

[–]Didiathon 8 points9 points  (0 children)

It’s even worse then that. Dumbass has been programmed by zombie movies/the purge/mad max to think you’re supposed to do fucked up shit when daddy government/religion isn’t looking.

[–]Didiathon 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Keyword there is “smart”.

Libertarians tend to assume everyone is capable of being a rational actor that takes repercussions into account. They aren’t.

[–]LucidCunning 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Even Jesus said, "Feed my sheep." Keyword there is, "sheep" ;)

[–]youngzari 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Basically what a politicians does, mainly for people who helped fund their campaign.

[–]KilluaKanmuru 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People" is a great book indeed

[–]2chazthundergut 64 points65 points  (7 children)

Your time is more valuable than her pussy.

Stop giving it away for free.

[–]apost54 32 points33 points  (5 children)

If she asks me to come over and I have class, I go to class because learning is more important than chicks will ever be.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Meh depending on what school someone goes to sitting in lectures within a faculty of barely intelligible professors who wouldn't pass TOEFL and who sound bored themselves, my time could be managed better.

I pay tuition to write the exams, 1.5hr in lecture <<< 1.5hrs on my own 8/10 times.

I've skipped many classes to go smash and then studied/learnt in the library afterwards

[–]apost54 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I feel you. I’m in a community college honors program as a senior in HS, and it’s ridiculously easy. But I still need to be in class because they’ll fail me if I’m not and my parents aren’t paying $2,600 a semester for me to fuck bitches. I can do that on my own time.

[–]1ozaku7 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Humans are inherently selfish, much like any other lifeform on earth. It's how we survive.

Relationships form only when both of you get more out of it than you both feel you invest, and you focus on the relationships with the highest yield.

Easy as that. Those who don't accept this want to life a fairy tale.

[–]gbdoragnic 23 points24 points  (0 children)

Very true, we should seek reciprocal relationships, this is not selfish at all, men are taught to give without wanting in return

[–]1Sauruk 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Selfishness is morally neutral

This is probably the baggage I had the hardest time losing from a religious upbringing. The feminization of Christianity has ruined a lot of the real value it had for men.

It is also much easier not to try and create covert contracts once this idea is internalized. You can give, or choose not to give without feeling like it is a reflection on your character if you to be selfish, and you can extend others the same courtesy without resentment.

[–]lifeonlockdown 6 points7 points  (0 children)

This may be one of the most important posts to cross the TRP wires in a very long time. Read and internalize this, gentlemen.

Nice work, OP.

[–]andreyeurope 11 points12 points  (4 children)

I disagree with your statement about accepting who you are. I might not be the world’s best Trp guru, or not even completely trp yet, but if you don’t accept who you are in the present, you are not going to change shit about the future. You cannot change who you are right now, but you can change who you’ll be tomorrow. So accept yourself as who you are, stop thinking about who you were and work towards who you’ll be.

[–]Didiathon 8 points9 points  (1 child)

You’re talking about accepting reality. OP is talking about accepting your flaws more permanently/not pushing yourself to fix them.

[–]Bc_Land 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I believe the point is that TRP says to accept responsibility for who you are so that you can make the necessary changes. BP'ers dont see the obvious problems because they blame others for their lack of effectiveness and results. Without taking responsibility, they will never be able to improve. So they accept themselves while putting the burden of their problems outside of themselves. It is a disempowered approach to life. If the fault is not theirs, they have no ability to change anything and so they hope and wait for world to change so their problems will go away. And that never happens.

[–]knowledgelover94[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So accept yourself as who you are, stop thinking about who you were and work towards who you’ll be.

I can agree with that. I was just emphasizing the necessity of self improvement, not trying to advocate against positive self-esteem.

[–]Dolphinfucker 7 points8 points  (2 children)

It's interesting how obvious this seems, yet so many people tend to act as if they don't realize it.

I think sometimes people are indulging in self-delusion about what the outcome of their actions will be, or what is the motivation of other actors. For example, you mention blue pill men that beta orbit around women with what we would assume is some expectation that eventually the woman will open her legs for him. Of course we know she won't, so we believe he is misguided. However, human action is complicated, and it may be the case that actually he is seeking disappointment because it is the best outcome for the beta male, since they are like the dog chasing the car and would have no idea what to do with it if they ever caught it.

If you ask them what their relationship is, they would probably say they are just friends, but in reality they are trading one thing for another. She is getting validation, and he is getting the opportunity to delude himself about where their relationship is going. It's not that she is leading him on, he is leading himself to a dead end because it is easier than lifting.

[–]Pokeylaw 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Goddamn dude for how much I read the redpill your so right about me, I actively try not to be but it still comes out and the wrong moments and blows hard. Am I subconsciously leading myself to disappointment on purpose if so whats my problem.

[–]Dolphinfucker 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If your actions aren't serving you, go monk mode. If women that were previously using you for validation ask what is going on with you, be aloof or ghost completely. If you are subconsciously seeking disappointment, it's because you are chasing after women that you know will reject you. You need to raise your SMV or start gaming women that are in your market. You are probably only looking at the top tier women, and settling for being their validation. What you need to do is game regular women and fuck them.

[–]whatplanetrufrom 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I love this post. Too many grown people want to be taken care of, and that's not how the world works. Those people are useless.

[–]awesume 1 point2 points  (0 children)

A blue pill person would read this and say that my outlook is what makes the world selfish and uncharitable.

Everyone's outlook combined makes the world what it is. One can choose to be more charitable and influence other people in this way. Or one can rationalize their uncompromising selfishness and project the same on others. The only difference between us and other animals is that humans can be more than our basic instincts if we choose to. It's best to expect nothing of others, but that doesn't mean you can't be different.

You can attribute it to social conditioning (who cares) but it has been shown that compassion and selflessness actually reduce anxiety and depression in humans. Once this becomes a part of who you are, can you still call it selfish?

[–]__uwotm8__ 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is a great post and I think it really is the very essence behind TRP.

[–]hb8only 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Women will only have sex with men that they deem valuable

men want sex with HOT women only so our "love" is also transaction: her looks = our desire (love :P

“acting nice”

it's like restaurant with advertisement: when you eat our food, you will not die - it is expected to be nice.. so you must add something extra...

[–]halfback910 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I like a lot of what you said here, but I think I've got a way to help you say it that's more logically consistent than "kids have value to parents".

On a small, familial level, humans operate as a communist society. That's how families are. From each according to their ability, to each according to their need. But when you get past even twenty or so humans we stop doing that. We become a market.

Markets are just what humans become in groups. Sort of like how grasshoppers turn into a swarm of locusts when you have a bunch of them in one place. They just become a different animal. A market is what a collection of humans become.

Altruism is fine and humans in markets can be plenty altruistic (people give far more to charity than is dolled out by welfare, for instance). But they're getting some sort of value from it, generally emotional.

[–]Thunderbird93 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It is demand and supply. Everything is equivalence of exchange from currency markets to tertiary education. Capitalism does not produce democracy, that is an illusion, it produces plutocracy. Therefore in the spirit of social stratification work to acquire capital and wealth, all else is masturbatory sentimentalism

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Women will only have sex with men that they deem valuable.

How is this not common sense? Newsflash: men will only have sex with women they deem attractive. Yes it’s mind blowing I know.

Blue pill people believe in accepting who they are currently and that “good intentions” and “acting nice” will lead to success with women.

Seriously?? Who the fuck believes that? Only creepy nice guys or men on the spectrum.

Holy shit.

[–]Pokeylaw 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm in college now and I basically have 2 personalities the happy go lucky black guy(friends called me that) and the self centered fuck who straight don't care about a lot of things(real me). I developed the happy once bc my old one just didn't work when with large groups of people and now it fucking sucks. Over the month since I've been here I let the real me out little by little and people straight tell me I'm a bad person. When I try to balance the 2 out it doesn't work I'm pretty sure if I could my chances with women would go up.

[–]somercet 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"Nations have interests, not friends." -- Geo. Washington.

And outside of family and a few close friends, true in our personal lives, as well. Yes, you should support family, but family often demands some performance for that support. And rightly so.

[–]iopq -3 points-2 points  (23 children)

Do dogs take care of their pups because they want to carry on a legacy? Maybe you should re-examine your assumptions.

[–]HandsomeCub 7 points8 points  (20 children)

You misunderstand his use of the word selfish. It doesnt mean greedy. It means applying your own values on the world. And this goes deep, philosophically. Next time you give a gift, or are charitable, ask yourself why you do it? Are you throwing your time into a black hole, or do you secretly have expectations. At the very least, would you care they not slander you, or are you such a saint you'd support death row criminals that would stab you in the back? Are you exchanging for gratitude? Or to create an environment of reciprocation? Whatever the conditional is, whether conscious or not, that IS the trade.

[–]iopq 0 points1 point  (19 children)

Viewing the world in a transactional manner is just the first step. The second step is to understand that people don't actually do this. Parents really do love their children.

If you do something nice so that people reciprocate, you are not an adult. You do something nice because you think it's the right thing to do. People can tell if you think in transactional terms. It shows an immature mentality.

In poker, we teach people not to be results-oriented. You don't see whether you won the hand or lost it to see if you made the right call.

You don't count the value of the things you give your friends to get the same amount back. You treat your friends well because you're that kind of person. You have friends that treat you well because you have good friends that also think the same way.

Similarly, you don't do anything for women that you don't want to. It's not about getting a result you want. That's an immature approach. I don't want to lie, so I tell the truth. It's simple. Even though I tell her I slept with two other women since we last met, she still has sex with me. Maybe I would have been more successful if I lied, maybe not. I'm not going to look for tricks to increase my success. I'm going to improve myself and find someone who is worthy of my improved version.

[–]Awxen 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Improving yourself in order to attract someone. Seems pretty transactional to me.

[–]iopq 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No, that's just reality. I'm not EXPECTING that people HAVE TO date me because I have money, for example. It's not "get X money, get a girlfriend". That would be a transaction, I get a reward for earning some amount of money.

Reality is I work out and take care of my appearance and someone might appreciate me, or they might not. If they ask me what I do I'll tell them I trade stocks and futures, but I won't brag about how much I make.

[–]HandsomeCub 5 points6 points  (15 children)

Viewing the world in a transactional manner is just the first step. The second step is to understand that people don't actually do this

They do though. Unspoken conditions always exist. Otherwise, you are throwing effort into that black hole of meaninglessness. What level of nobility and return you expect is the real question.

If you do something nice so that people reciprocate, you are not an adult. You do something nice because you think it's the right thing to do.

But isnt reciprocating the nice thing to do? Or are you bringing value to the unappreciative, the free loaders, the apathetic that just abuse your time? "You would do the same for me, right?" Or perhaps you are on high enough of a level that you see beauty in expending effort one way, and it gives you a little bit of a buzz. That buzz is what you are after, and is enough. But the true test is would you still be "nice" if it conflicted with your ability to make money... what percentage of your income?

People can tell if you think in transactional terms. It shows an immature mentality.

Is spite immature? You feel spite when the unspoken rules of the transaction are broken. You dont stick your head in the sand, you want to make it obvious their behaviour is unacceptable, even if you cant verbalize why.

In poker, we teach people not to be results-oriented. You don't see whether you won the hand or lost it to see if you made the right call.

Ok your saying there is probability in paying it forward. I can buy this, but it doesn't apply to most everything we are talking about. Something more interesting is, can you spot people that are "immature" and call their bluff? And is being "nice" nondiscriminating?

You don't count the value of the things you give your friends to get the same amount back. You treat your friends well because you're that kind of person. You have friends that treat you well because you have good friends that also think the same way.

I think you are descibing reciprocation precisely right here, but its almost like you arent aware that those are the rules you prefer to live under. Im not advocating being a stickler for keeping close track of efforts, but ask yourself what the word appreciation really means, and if the people you are being nice to have it.

Similarly, you don't do anything for women that you don't want to. It's not about getting a result you want.

But if women faun over the men that make things easy for them, what does it tell you about them, and what you are compared against, and ultimately the trade. By choosing not to be conscious of this trade you are "sticking your head in the sand", which is the hallmark of a blue piller.

That's an immature approach. I don't want to lie, so I tell the truth. It's simple.

Or is it uncomfortable to lie, because liars are ugly and you would feel ugly and see that others see you as ugly if discovered. But would you lie to protect those you care about. Would you lie to fight unfairness. Lieing is hard and difficult to maintain, but it can protect you from those with the open power. Its only simple because you framed it as simple.

Even though I tell her I slept with two other women since we last met, she still has sex with me. Maybe I would have been more successful if I lied, maybe not. I'm not going to look for tricks to increase my success. I'm going to improve myself and find someone who is worthy of my improved version.

This is noble. I think along these lines of being open. But perhaps the definition of "worthy" is a woman that "appreciates" her man. And this is the fundamental transaction TRP often tries to elaborate on.

[–]iopq 0 points1 point  (14 children)

Yes, people reciprocate, but not because they feel like they need to, but because they want to. You might think it's the same thing, but it's really not. The first is primarily a selfish preoccupation, while the other means they feel good reciprocating.

For example, when I bring food to a party, I feel good when someone eats some of it. I want someone to enjoy it. I don't care if what I get at the party is equivalent, lol.

If you think too much in transactional terms, people feel you are cheap and petty. A woman once complained to me that when we split the bill I end up getting more of the food. Sure, I did treat her to drinks later, but I definitely had a lower opinion of her for counting to the last penny. Don't do this as a man. As long as it's close to fair, one or two dollars is not a big deal. This is because you don't want to be with someone where you have to spend time arguing about money, when the difference might be tiny.

Of course I would lie if the situation called for it. But I wouldn't lie to get laid. Paradoxically, it doesn't seem to hurt my chances, though.

[–]HandsomeCub 0 points1 point  (13 children)

Yes, people reciprocate, but not because they feel like they need to, but because they want to. You might think it's the same thing, but it's really not. The first is primarily a selfish preoccupation, while the other means they feel good reciprocating.

What happens when youre expected to want to reciprocate? A whirlwind of passive aggressiveness and spite. All because "transactions" are ugly, and we pretend they arent happening. The most mature thing we can do is become conscious of the conditions of the trade. If you devalue certain parts as petty and undeserving of social attention thats fine, but pretending trades arent happening and trying to grasp them is sticking your head in the sand.

For example, when I bring food to a party, I feel good when someone eats some of it. I want someone to enjoy it. I don't care if what I get at the party is equivalent, lol.

This is petty. What happens when it isnt? A transaction? How do we tell if effort is petty or not? In any case, the trade is still happening, you just modified your conditions. YOU WANT someone to enjoy it. Sounds like you are being selfish in the exact manner selfish is being used by OP. Not greedy, but selfish. You are running reality through your own selfish filter and seeing this occurance as more personally valuable than not.

I just cant wrap my head around why you cant see fairness as beautiful, tho. Im not a dick for wanting reciprocation. Your a dick for expecting me to be a slave to unappreciative freeloaders.

[–]iopq 0 points1 point  (12 children)

What happens when youre expected to want to reciprocate? A whirlwind of passive aggressiveness and spite.

No, I just pick to hang out with people that genuinely want good things for me. I have a friend who views relationships transactionally, which is kind of fine, but I don't enjoy spending time with him as much as friends who don't do this.

The most mature thing we can do is become conscious of the conditions of the trade.

There is no trade. I enjoy my friends' company and I sometimes bring them food because I want to. They give me whatever they are having at the time. Those things are worth a few dollars here and there. Nobody cares, we all make a lot of money.

YOU WANT someone to enjoy it. Sounds like you are being selfish in the exact manner selfish is being used by OP. Not greedy, but selfish. You are running reality through your own selfish filter and seeing this occurance as more personally valuable than not.

Yes, in a "being nice to people makes me happy" type of selfish. Normally people don't describe this as selfish, but altruistic.

I just cant wrap my head around why you cant see fairness as beautiful, tho

Fairness is beautiful, even moreso when nobody has to CHECK how fair exactly fairness is. How much was that bag of chips? Was that equivalent to the cheese puffs I brought? Oh please

Your a dick for expecting me to be a slave to unappreciative freeloaders.

I don't have freeloader friends, so I don't have to worry about it. When people try to exploit me, I don't spend time with them the next time.

[–]HandsomeCub 0 points1 point  (11 children)

Yes, in a "being nice to people makes me happy" type of selfish. Normally people don't describe this as selfish, but altruistic.

I think this is the crux of the discussion here. This is the manner ‘selfish‘ is being used: deriving your own values for yourself. There is something insidious about altruism being glorified, because it conveniently cuts out self reflection, about what YOU want. Once you realize this, that its ok to be selfish, you can start understanding fairness, and OP should make more sense.

Actually, one other thing. Transactions and contracts happen all over the place without you being conscious of them. If you think its ugly to even recognize them in informal settings, thats on you. The most common one referenced on TRP is how women prefer successful men, but if you consider that this is a condition for involvement (cuz after all they "dont want no scrub"), you might realize marriage looks like a prostitution deal... a trade. And many men think that its become an unfair one that has no place in a post female liberated society. This is where we are past petty effort like the 2 dollars forgotten at a split meal, and must ask with self-dignity "what am i getting out of this?"

[–]iopq 0 points1 point  (10 children)

That's the thing, I don't like it when people point out how they want me to behave.

So when a girl says "you should pay for me" or when friends complain I don't get them gifts like I'm supposed to know they want something. I don't expect people to get me gifts because they wouldn't really know what I want. So I only get people gifts that they ask for since I know they'll like it.

I bought my ex a lot of smaller stuff, but then she bought me a cell phone that I actually needed. Overall, it was equitable. I might have spent more money on her, but she spent a lot of effort on cooking, etc. I'm not going to count up the hours she spent working for me or the money I spent on her.

The difference between an exchange and a contract is that a contract is something you AGREE to and MUST follow. Exchanges happen all the time, but that's something I'm more comfortable with. I was not under a contract to buy ingredients for dinner, my ex was not under contract to cook it.

Bottom line: if you stress about this too much, you are not fun to be around.

[–]HandsomeCub 0 points1 point  (9 children)

True, dont sweat the small stuff. And i know exactly what youre talking about with the expectations. An ex of mine told me she was low maintenance, but then had all kinds of expectations of what she apparently wanted me to do. In short, there is a reason why its called a bachelor's degree.

Just a clarification, an exchange IS a contract.

[–]drazlone 0 points1 point  (0 children)

wow this is little complex

[–]SwoleyMoleyFrijoley 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Yes. That's exactly what they do. They are trying to carry on their genes. That's that.

[–]iopq 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Not consciously, it's instinct.

[–]Hotspot3 -3 points-2 points  (1 child)

Where in the world did you get that definition for virtue? Being good at sports or being athletic has nothing to do with morality, it is morally neutral.

I think a better way to put it would be

You may attract a woman with a skill or ability...

[–]knowledgelover94[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, “moral excellence” is one definition for virtue, but another is “a good or useful quality of a thing” (found by googling “virtue”).