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MetaDads and Big Brothers (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by Endorsed ContributorHeathcliff--

Was going to post this until the censorship happened, but things are slightly different now. I will post anyway, unedited. Guess we won't be here for much longer. I'll continue posting on here and my subreddit until they ban us all.


I’ve been here for a while. Many years ago I stumbled upon this place, and after reading only a few top posts and a bit of the sidebar, I was hit with an instant intuitive wallop in the gut: this is Truth.

I could feel it, there was no denying it. Like I had been lost and clueless for so long and suddenly the path was illuminated before me, clear as day, and under my nose the whole time.

A scramble of reading followed. I took it all in, devouring like a half-starved child. There wasn’t much resistance, it all just made sense, confirmed everything I had suspected but was too afraid to fully admit, truths that lurked in my subconscious were finally given confirmation.

Success was lagging. It took a while for me to actually internalise what I’d learnt into real action. On the internet I was a redpill warrior, a crusader against thots and a champion of truth. In real life I was still just as bluepill and spergy as ever, being too much of a coward to make the leap and become a better person.

Eventually it did happen, after much pain and struggle, and many, many mistakes and readjustments. I began to taste the first few drops of success, and this reinforced the truth of the redpill even further for me. Women were easier to talk to, I didn’t clam up around them, and some of them even wanted to suck my dick.

And, surprisingly, the rest of my life improved too. Everything about it got… better. It was easier for me to interact with people and navigate the social world, I got bullied less, I learnt how to pick and choose friends, I felt less guilty about not wanting to spend time with dumb people, I woke up earlier, I ate better, I performed better in sports, I studied harder.

Everything; simply everything improved. And this was totally unintended. Was it my testosterone levels finally reaching an acceptable level? Well that definitely played a part. But there was more. I had rounded out, somehow, and become more of a man than I ever was before. In my quest for pussy I had accidentally stumbled upon the path to masculinity.


There seems to be two types of reader of TRP, from what I’ve seen. I think I’ve been here long enough to observe the patterns in the commenting and posting, and we seem to fall into two distinct categories.

The first I call proto-Men. They write almost all the successful posts and rarely comment unless they really have something to say and things of value to add. All the endorsed fit this category, but there are many lower-ranking posters and commenters too.

These are often older guys, and those that have had success with women in the past. They may be just out of a failed marriage or LTR; in fact many of them were brought here because they were burned heavily by a woman, cheating or divorce rape or what have you. They may also have been some of the originals who were here right from the beginning, or followed the redpill origin blogs before we even had a subreddit.

I call these guys proto-men because they are almost fully fledged “men”; they have achieved mastery in in almost all aspects of their lives except one: women. The hardest one. Money and power and finances and career and health and status and looks; mostly cracked and solved and achieved. But these men still struggle deeply with letting women control and fuck up their lives.

They are able to talk and interact with women in a good way, for the most part. They get dates and girlfriends and wives, but still can’t understand the women nor make them behave in sane ways. They get laid, but often not enough or with the standard of woman they really desire.

These proto-men are here to learn mastery of women; the original aim and goal of the redpill blogs and this subreddit. They share notes and anecdotal data and discuss game. And that’s what we were for a long time and still remain, a forum to discuss sexual strategy.

But something changed over time, not in the redpill, but in the core readership; or rather, in the core of young western-males themselves. It was only a hint at first, but has quickly become very stark, and very obvious.


The second type of redpill reader is the Boy. This is often a young male in high school or college, but also, and increasingly, extends to “adults” who reach their 30s. However, these guys aren’t adults at all, or even men, they are still boys. Their adolescence has extended far past its expiry date, and with it has remained the anger and depression and anxiety and teenage angst.

These boys can’t even talk to women, let alone game them. They get nervous and sweaty and stuttery. They have low self esteem and horrible self image. They do not have many friends, and can’t make smalltalk. They don’t lift, they don’t exercise, they can’t feed themselves properly. A lot of them are virgins, or have had very few, and sometimes traumatically embarrassing experiences with women.

They come here initially to try and get laid. That’s what we all want at the end of the day; but these kids are struggling the most. At least the proto-men have experienced pussy; many of the boys never have.

And so they attempt to learn to run; they learn how to spot an IOI and pass a shit-test and how to breakup with a girl properly or solve ASD.

But it’s all moot. It’s all a damn waste of time. These kids can’t run. They can barely crawl.

The proto-men write all these great posts for each other on the psychology of women and share techniques and mindsets and these kids eat it up and post their meaningless comments like “this is the best post I ever read” or “this should be sidebared” or “fuck I needed this right now”…. But they never get the chance to put any of it into practice; because they’re too afraid to leave their room to actually game; or when they see a girl she sneers and walks away from him. Many of these kids can’t bench the bar.

There is no point at all trying to teach these guys how to game women, because they do not even pass the first barrier needed for attraction: being an adult male. These kids need to be taught how to be men.


I remember the morning after my “Ubermensch Mode” post, I woke up and instantly regretted it. What a narcissistic spiel of cringepost. What a waste of 40000 characters. Honestly had anyone else posted it I would have downvoted within the first few paragraphs. It didn’t belong on the subreddit, and in fact was just childish. Yet, for some reason, it had done very, very well.

This confused the hell out of me at first. Could these guys not see the infancy of the post? Are these “realisations” and “philosophies” not obvious and clear to anyone who was raised remotely well? Do they really enjoy being bossed around and told how to behave by some stranger on the internet with no credentials?

And that’s when I realised the full extent of just how many boys we have on our subreddit. Boys that aligned with the infancy, boys that had never actually been taught these things before, so were astounded by them, and boys who really, and desperately needed to be told what to do.

And with horror, I realised that these were only the smart boys, the brave ones, the ones who had broken out of the herd and accepted the teachings of a misogynist rape-cult. How many more boys were out there, drinking their soy and playing their Nintendo switches, who outright reject this truth or never even found it? How many western men are living their lives as castrated adolescents?


The TRP boys are on a quest of masculinity. They have to first become men before they can even think of gaming women. Their problem with girls was not that they couldn’t game them properly….they were never even allowed into the game in the first place. Barred entry at the first sign of anime-backpack or mom-haircut.

And they need, more than anything; guidance. These boys grew up without fathers and a masculine support system. Men throughout the millennia have taught and guided the young and the weak. We sort ourselves into hierarchies and pass knowledge and wisdom down into those teenagers at the bottom. The men teach the boys how to become men.

It’s these boys who are filling the subreddit with their Jordan Peterson worship. They crave fatherly guidance, and are willing to accept it from any source; be it Peterson or Harris or Rogan or any other internet-dad exploiting their need for direction.


One of the things I loved about TRP when I first came here was the “we’re not all equal” mantra. Finally! I loved the attitude of “sit down, shut up, and listen”. I loved that we had endorsed contributors who held more weight, who had to be vetted and voted in by the others at the top. Finally, a hierarchy I can join and work my way up, the honest way, through merit and accomplishment.

Eventually I became endorsed, I don’t really think I deserved it, still don’t, but my posts resonated with the audience for some reason, I had no clue at the time but I now understand why. I had only recently ascended from boy into proto-man, and my struggle was easier to identify with for the boys who were trying to do the same thing. Rollo and IM and the senior endorsed and vanguards were writing for the Proto-Men, and while some masculine wisdom would trickle down to the boys this way, no one was really caring or addressing them specifically. A demographic of the subreddit that was mostly ignored and glossed over, yet a hugely significant one. Maybe even the majority.

I clocked onto the fact that we can’t really control who our readership is, reddit has certain demographics that dictate who end up on our board, and our aims and goals align very closely with the virgin and clueless teenage boys. I wanted to get these kids laid, I wanted to help them, just like all the other blogposters and endorsed; but I had to go about it the indirect way, and get to the root of the problem.

And what did the boys need? Fatherly and brotherly love and guidance. Men to tell them what to and when to do it. Men to tell them to lift and stop being a pussy. Men to crush their bullshit excuses and whining. Men to inspire and motivate, to set them dreaming and planning and creating. Men to give them a model of masculinity they can admire and emulate.

Every one of us needed this in our lives, and some of us were lucky enough to have someone to do it for us. But many, many young men, far more than ever, are growing up with a lack of masculine presence to learn from. Many of these boys are fatherless and, and they have no church or community where they can learn from stand-ins. Yet they crave it. They crave the testosterone and the locker room talk and the no-bullshit approach. They realised they were missing something so vitally crucial to their development. So they went looking for it. And they found it on TRP.


And so I began to see TRP for what it was. A bunch of dads and big brothers, teaching a bunch of boys how to become men. Fundamentally, that’s what it has become. Of course, game is still a huge, huge part of it; getting your dick wet is your first step to becoming a man, and is what drew the majority of us here in the first place; but there’s so much more teaching and learning that has been going on under the surface that we all knew was happening but never really addressed.

And these posters, these endorsed guys and mods and vanguards and blog posters; try to appreciate just what they’re doing for their society and communities. They spend their time, writing or curating or moderating for boys they do not know and will never meet; growing them up. For what benefit of theirs? To make more competition?

Sure we all love posting our narcissist dribble and getting praise and attention; but there’s more to it, definitely. Only the truly genuine, most educational and most virtuous posts ever do well anyway, the readers can feel the love in them and reciprocate. These guys want to give back. They want to teach. They want to guide.

These men are truly men in the best sense of the word, and no one better to emulate and admire. They may have their own demons to fight, especially with women, as we all do, but they still embody all the characteristics of great men; a thirst for truth, an unapologetic bravery, and a humble quest for virtue.

Count yourself lucky kids, and be proud. You looked for them and you found them. These are the men you needed to guide your lives. These are the dads and big brothers you were missing from your childhood. Here they are.


[–]ahackercalled4chan 25 points26 points  (0 children)

I began to see TRP for what it was. A bunch of dads and big brothers, teaching a bunch of boys how to become men.

this what i've gotten out of it as well, a clear path to transition from being a whiny kid to being a stoic man. big thanks to Heathcliff, GLO, BPP, & the rest of the leaders of this sub. y'all have given me insight & encouragement that i never would have found anywhere else.

[–]Endorsed ContributorMetalgear222 21 points22 points  (0 children)

My motivation for giving back to the community here is that I can't stand to let the world burn around me. Ill help as many individuals as I can acquire this knowledge (when they're ready) and become better. I don't truly believe "Enjoy the decline" unless it comes to pumping and dumping sluts. My fellow diseased blue pill men (we've all been there), need direction and wisdom so they too can be whole and complete as a man.

Everything taught here is the lessons we wish our brothers and fathers would of taught us early on. Always better late than never.

[–]riot2100 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Every one of us needed this in our lives, and some of us were lucky enough to have someone to do it for us.

My parents divorced when I was very young. When I was a kid going through puberty, I never had that vital masculine influence. I, like every other teenage boy, wanted to fuck girls. Today, most of the boys that age are never given a toolset on how to achieve this, and are actually unaware on how to do it. Luckily, TRP would do much more than just that.

Without this place I don't know if I would've ever changed. Like many of us here, I began lifting, read influential books, and formulated ideas about the SMP. Before stumbling into this sub like a drunken loser, I was the kid who'd apologize about everything and incessantly have "manners". Without TRP, there would've never been a reason to critically think about this. The luck of finding this place is still quite bewildering.

There's one larger, looming issue on the horizon for us TRP'ers. In my own good conscience (which is obviously subjective), I can't sit by idly and watch other boys become doomed to the fate that I once was. Reality hurt once I realized the truth, but living a lie and having all the promises made to you come crumbling down is much more painful. The latter reason brought many people here.

[–]YesToControversy 5 points6 points  (1 child)

As a "boy", I'd like to also point out my type of "fatherless" lads:

Those whose fathers would constantly be working their asses off, and not really interacting with their kids, thus leaving the kids in a place where instead of a father, there's a void. Where you've got a father, by the societal definition of having one. He's a man, who is married to your mother, and is your biological father. He works most of the time, and you may go weeks without speaking to him. You may see him, because you went into your parents' room and spotted him sleeping in the bed, in the morning, when you were off to school and he hadn't woken up yet. But you barely know him. (Edit: He's just an ATM Machine, while your stay-at-home mom is the only parent, adult, and authority figure in your life.)

I tried to get as close as possible to my father. I couldn't. He was barely at home. In my earlier years, there were times when I wouldn't see or hear him (no internet back then), for 7 months. He travelled cuz of his job. We couldn't afford international calls. He would send faxes sometimes. But even later on, we had grown up "around" each other, without having each other around. So we were used to not interacting with each other. I still craved his company, his guidance, his wisdom and knowledge. He was my most supreme hero, even if he was missing most of the time. Now he's an old retired man, and he's tired. He can't and won't teach me anything.

So I am here. On TRP. Learning things that I wish my father taught me.

I'll do my fucking best to learn. And to pass on the knowledge to my own sons and nephews. And to other young lads on the internet.

I need to learn first though.

I will.

[–]leviathan51 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

No. You're not a special snowflake, not a special type. And also, no one owes you anything, not even your father.

[–]red_philosopher 3 points4 points  (2 children)

The core motivation for my participation here was originally to find answers. I came here after a particularly bad breakup with my "NAWALT Unicorn" and was lost looking for answers. I hated myself, I hated who and what I was. In time, I read the sidebar fully, I began exercising, achieving, and going out and testing what I had learned. And every doubt I had was confirmed. Every part of the red pill bore true in practice, and as it began to take root in my mind I realized that it explained nearly every, single, relationship I have ever had with a woman.

Every last one.

I got my answers.

Now, I want to contribute; I hate seeing my fellow men suffer in a world that never taught them how to become men. Many may never even be ready. I've even accepted that the world as I know it may be in a decline. So what. I can still improve the lives of young men for as long as the world lasts and as long as I am in it.

I challenge the men around me, their thoughts, their perceptions, their very core. Some take what I've said and their lives are fundamentally altered and they grow and become something they never dreamed possible. Others reject it, reject me, and I never see them again, only I know they are in denial, and one day, life will butcher their false truth and they will seek answers.

Till then, cheers OP, you and other "Proto-Men" have changed countless lives for the better. I'll see you on trp.red :)

[–]loveladee 0 points1 point  (1 child)

What do you mean in decline?

[–]red_philosopher 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'll post about the decline over on forums.red soon, when they open it up.

[–]mindplaybyneo 1 point2 points  (0 children)

First of I wanted to say its been a slice. I am one of those autist stated by u/heathcliff—. Anxiety, depreasion, panic attacks despite all that I’m a hard worker, never put anyone in harms way. Growing up as a kid I was very isolated, and hated people. My dad was controlling, I had a lot of past trauma, and lack on drive. Although, I know, I always have it, I was pretty much born with it. I know I have the drive, and this is what helped me. TRP. I red numbers of post, red lots if recommended books, I have always lifted. I looked jacked, but has no game, and also never internalized a lot of strengths taught her, but I know there is that voice. The sound of 300 men, a cumulative amount of desire, references, and knowledge passed by the men lurking in this little sub. The people might be winning, and as real men we will sit. We will stay quiet, and observed despite the knowledge and the power we have. Its what we do best. When grow men married, they let the women do the talking, they let them have their own way. I came to the realization that this will always lived. We will be walking back to the society, living our own lives and will continue to touch people around us with our Redpill mentality. We never lose. He who drives the vehicle with the means of using women as a medium lost the battle, or she can shut down the narrative, but she will never attain the best outcome without the opposing side. Things only get better when there is an opposing narrative. Shutting it done make their world complacent. I’d like to thank each and every moderator and contributor on this sub. As what Neo usually do, I will submerge in the mattix, and someday die with all this knowledge. I came to conclusion that some men has the best knowledge and ethics in the world. Women can be unforgiving, and I understand their sentiment. I apologized if they felt the way they feel about TRP, but I hope they find peace and realized that us men are nit here to compete, but to compliment their imperfectness with ours. Peace out comeades

[–]Clean_Anus 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I would have lved to have TRP or good male role models when I was younger. But, learned everything the hard way, set me back years, then found TRP and it confirmed what I learned on my own through pain and humiliation.

[–]daddydraper 0 points1 point  (1 child)

They crave fatherly guidance, and are willing to accept it from any source; be it Peterson or Harris or Rogan or any other internet-dad exploiting their need for direction.

Sounds like something one of your naive "boys" would say—a gross over-simplification and polemical, biased ad-hominem.

Regardless, I mostly agree with your overarching categorization of the Red Pill community. But let's not get too cocky here. Most of these "dads"? "Mods"? "Vanguards"? Guys also on their own journey who need direction (if they don't have it already) and are struggling just as much as any one of us. Some are farther along, and some not as far, but we're all just men.

Now, I don't doubt that among us there exist truly great men, and I can already here half of the narcissists reading this right now thinking "yeah, that's me!" Have some humility.

Just because you think you're great, doesn't mean you are.

You'll know it when you reach that point. When all your delusions are cast off. When your reality has ascended to new, sublime heights. When you have transformed and destroyed your old, insufficient self.

Not many among us will reach that point. Death, suffering, loss, struggle, insecurity, fear, worry—these are all in our way. But that only makes the game that much greater. How badly do you want to win?

[–]Endorsed ContributorMentORPHEUS 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Regardless, I mostly agree with your overarching categorization of the Red Pill community. But let's not get too cocky here. Most of these "dads"? "Mods"? "Vanguards"? Guys also on their own journey who need direction (if they don't have it already) and are struggling just as much as any one of us. Some are farther along, and some not as far, but we're all just men.

Most men who make their way up the ladder of success tend to pull it up afterward, to knock other men off and step on their fingers so they can't climb the same path.

The ECs at TRP are the minority type of men who are not just climbing the ladder but offering a hand up to others who would strive, and leaving the ladder better and sturdier in their wake.

[–][deleted]  (4 children)

[removed]

[–]3itiswr1tten 5 points6 points  (2 children)

Nothing about a poster's appearance is relevant. These are just words - read them and think about them.

[–]NovusRomanumIimperi -3 points-2 points  (1 child)

He claimed he went from a 3 out of 10 to a 8 out of 10 in another post, which really made me wonder what he looks like

[–]jwarner95 1 point2 points  (0 children)

more autistic cherry picking on heathcliffs shit while missing the main points