Red Pill TheoryThe Engineer's Dilemma (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by Senior Endorsed ContributorBlacklabellogics

The problems that the salesman entrepreneur experiences are often much easier to solve than the ones experienced by the engineer, because if you go to a bank with a stack of orders and ask for a loan to fill the orders, few banks will say no. The engineer’s problem is that is mind wants a perfect product before every trying to sell it.

The reason why I enjoyed watching Rich’s speech is that he talked about how his scars prevented him from doing a lot of things that he wanted to do, because in his mind their importance was magnified to a large degree. Once he realized that this limitation was self-imposed he was able to do work to move beyond it. Likewise, “Mode One” talks about how most men default to either “Mode Two” communication or “Mode Three” communication as a form of saving their ego based in fear. To be a little crass, a man communicating in “Mode Two” will show a woman his dick but not until he is convinced that she wants to see it, a Man communicating in Mode 3 will not show a woman his dick until she explicitly asks. At their core, both these problems stem from flawed syllogism within one’s own mind that I suspect is largely subconscious:

Major Premise: To get X, [insert] must be Y

Minor Premise: [Insert] not Y

Conclusion: Therefore [Insert] cannot get X

I formulated this syllogism in a neutral form because I think it’s applicable in many areas. The engineer entrepreneur thinks:

Major Premise: To get success [the product] must be perfect

Minor Premise: [The Product] is not perfect

Conclusion: Therefore [the product] cannot get successful

The engineer’s dilemma reminds me of when I was doing some home renovation a while ago, after completing the work, I stood back, looked at what I had built. I saw every single mistake I had made and every single flaw. The moulding was off by a little bit under the ceiling, the nail marks from putting it up were really obvious, where I’d used spackle to cover up the nails there was a slight color difference with the paint, some of the floorboards had moved a little bit after being put in, and a ton of others. A couple of years later, I don’t really notice those flaws anymore.

The major difference between the salesman and the engineer is that they are both avoiding having to do something they dislike, but they also want to avoid different forms of criticism. The salesman wants to avoid being criticized for not getting his product sold, because his identity is tied up in being a salesman. The engineer wants to avoid being criticized for building a bad product, because his identity is tied up in being an engineer. Both of them forget that most people aren’t salesmen or engineers and will not be able to tell the real difference.

Read the full essay here: https://blacklabellogic.com/2018/08/31/the-engineers-dilemma/

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 35 points36 points  (10 children)

Good points, and very applicable to sexual strategy.

This post overlaps a lot with the cruse of perfectionism: the belief that one must be perfect to be good / useful / attractive / successful.

Fundamentally perfectionism is a low status and/or low self esteem belief. It's often a need to feel beyond criticism. A need for imagined future approval to be unavoidable or implicit because the self or the product is beyond all possible criticism: it must be perfect.

This causes all kinds of problems for men especially: too much time in monk mode, too much time developing a perfect product (or a perfect self) while the market (sexual or otherwise) doesn't give a fuck and is clamouring for the Minimal Viable Product.

I know I've been guilty of this thinking in both business and sexual areas of life.

[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorBlacklabellogics[S] 27 points28 points  (5 children)

It's something I've struggled with myself "Just $1000 more", "Just 1% body fat less", "Just a slight improvement in style" but it never ends. Any man with a critical mindset and who enjoys self-improvement can as I put it in the essay

"It’s also why the phrase “Self-improvement is masturbation” was invented, because some men get stuck in this loop of “I just need to fix A“, then they move to “I just need to fix B“, then “I just need to fix C“, and so it goes. Until they die with six pack abs, 100 million in the bank, speaking 12 languages, having visited every country on earth, having obtained 24 advanced degrees, owning 4 houses and 32 cars, gaining a 2400 lb powerlifting total, 3 top placements in bodybuilding contests, having mastered 28 different skillsets, having placed in The World’s Strongest Man twice, and have gotten laid exactly 0 times because the technology wasn’t invented to take them from 5 ft 11 to 6 ft tall. "

[–]Koryphae_ 1 point2 points  (3 children)

So 'what' is getting laid? A skill?

[–]2awalt_cupcake 1 point2 points  (0 children)

50% skill 50% luck

Mostly a numbers game. Some pro day gamers say you won't really begin raising those numbers until your 1000th approach.

[–]Endorsed ContributorKeffirLime 3 points4 points  (0 children)

One step further, the sexual market offers a constant feedback loop.

Unlike the engineer or salesmen, you need not be as invested in the initial IPO. Your wealth or health or access to food and shelter don't depend on it.

Use this leeway and feedback to constantly develop and mold your product into whatever you want it to be.

Outcome independence forms part of this, as you can consistently go to market and test it without significant damage to ego.

[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorRian_Stone 6 points7 points  (2 children)

It's not just our side either. You can go to PPD, right now (not that you'd want to) and half the top threads are basically saying 'RP guys aren't perfect, therefore they are lying chumps making it all up'

Point to a picture of Ross Jeffries and some blockchain, pine Tree survivalist guy and call it a day!

It's a great time to adopt irrational confidence,

If you are the kind of guy who is smart enough to know what you don't know, which gives you an accurate sense of humility, this is for you.

I think we all have that uncanny vallue to an extent. I've not seen a better system, other than to ignore it and plow through

[–]Tektio 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you for that link, brilliant.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's a great time to adopt irrational confidence

Total truth...

I think we all have that uncanny vallue to an extent. I've not seen a better system, other than to ignore it and plow through


It all works partly because it's so rare.

[–]badgerninjacow 11 points12 points  (1 child)

Who the fuck is Rich? What is mode 1, 2 and 3? Your post reads like a conversation I walked in on halfway through.

[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorRian_Stone 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Richard Cooper.

[–]CallTheCrows 7 points8 points  (2 children)

Who's worse, engineers, vegans or subaru drivers?

[–]Nootmares 7 points8 points  (1 child)

I thought vegans and subaru drivers were the same...?

[–]KingSlapFight 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I don't get the name. Most engineers are like "fuck it, good enough for government work", "it meets spec, ship it", "I'm getting off this shitfest program, later haters".

[–]0fficialRider99 5 points6 points  (4 children)

What are you going on about? Delusional much, I have never showed any chick my dick “intentionally.” I’m also no salesman my friend, your taking it to seriously. It’s intended to be a light hearted inspirational read.

[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorRian_Stone 4 points5 points  (3 children)

heh, I thought that was a hypothetical, didn't realize you were really making a dick post!

[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorBlacklabellogics[S] 4 points5 points  (2 children)

Shit Rian, you didn't get it? I meant that a dude should walk around with his dick out 24/7/365, public lewdness charges are just a tool of the black female patriarchy to shame white men.

[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorRian_Stone 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Last 21 con, was talking to this chick, asked her about awkward sex stories.

She talked about a guy who turned around and faced away to put on his condom, avoided unintentionally showing his dick or something.

She looked like a taller version of the youngest stark kid off Game of thrones...

I think this is that guy.

[–]Senior Contributor: "The Court Jester"GayLubeOil 1 point2 points  (17 children)

While we're at it we can take this whole thing to an even higher level of abstraction. You see both the Engineer and the Salesman are operating within a liberal capitalist frame.. Fundimentaly it's a Materialist world view which is to say a view that problems are solved through things. A product in the case of the engineer and a sales pitch in the case of a sales person.

However an Idealist which is to say non Materialist world view is also an option which is why you can Yoga Mystic your way into a vagina.

Plenty of men from other cultures and belief systems fucked women and their methods are just as valid.

[–]Cheeseking11 6 points7 points  (5 children)

You do realize that there is no such thing as a non-material person. A person can believe they are non-material all they want but reality proves otherwise. Their view or perspective is irrelevant.

Food, water, air are material. Trying living without them.

[–]Senior Contributor: "The Court Jester"GayLubeOil 1 point2 points  (4 children)

In this context materist is the Anti-Thesis of spiritualist. These are two competing philosophical approaches

[–]Cheeseking11 1 point2 points  (3 children)

From a philosophical standpoint then yes I would agree but that is only one lense from which to percept. When the philosophical meets the reality that is when the philosophy is tested. Absolute spiritualism with no materialism means immediate death which is also absolute. Absolute materialism does not mean absolute death but it doesn’t provision fulfillment.

Do you disagree?

[–]Senior Contributor: "The Court Jester"GayLubeOil 1 point2 points  (1 child)

If I'm understanding you correctly then yes.

[–]3LiveAFTSOV 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Im pretty sure absolute materialism means we become higher life forms and the concepts of food water and air become meaningless - we would become the saviours written about in books

[–]3LiveAFTSOV 0 points1 point  (10 children)

Pillaging and conquering ones way Into a pussy is way better than yogi mysticing ones way Into it imo

[–]Senior Contributor: "The Court Jester"GayLubeOil 7 points8 points  (9 children)

Theocratic regimes had no problem conquering. Your commenting above your pay grade ...again

[–]3LiveAFTSOV 2 points3 points  (8 children)

I think all historical regimes were theocratic, and non theocratic states are a modern phenominia.

I meant it as in, why be a spirituality woo woo new age namaste at Woodstock guy, when you can be a "violence is king in the animal world," kinda guy.

Vikings and Genghis Khan you know.

Commenting at ones pay grade isn't a recipe for a successful sexual strategy anyways

[–]Senior Contributor: "The Court Jester"GayLubeOil 4 points5 points  (7 children)

Your conflating new age faggotry with Traditional civilization who had no problem with violence and masculinity. Why? Because your commenting above your paygrade.

[–]3LiveAFTSOV 1 point2 points  (6 children)

Okay that's fine. But non theocratic regimes, like the Vikings or Mongol empire, they did pretty good phenangling their ways into some vaginas by way of the sword.

In much more effective rates than the sword + God via inquisition or new age Christian exploring or w/e. Especially the Mongols. Genghis is an inspiration.

[–]Senior Contributor: "The Court Jester"GayLubeOil 8 points9 points  (5 children)

The Viking's pagan mythology was a key motivating factor in all of their conquests. In fact it could be said that it is precisely their religious system that drive them to conquest.

The Spanards religiously conquered the new world.

Whoever taught you history should be drawn and quartered for the suffering he has unleashed upon the Earth.

[–]3LiveAFTSOV 2 points3 points  (4 children)

Since when did religious influence determine whether an empire was theocratic or not

a state is theocratic if the political procedures themselves are determined by religion or settled by clergy. genghis khan was not a priest, neither were the Vikings they were warlords.

in the same manner, our past US presidents are Christian, but the usa is not theocratic.

[–]Senior Contributor: "The Court Jester"GayLubeOil 3 points4 points  (3 children)

For Vikings war was a sacred act just as it is for the Taliban. Was Osama Bin Laden a priest or a warlord? Also here you are asking what religion has to do with theocracy?

The US religion is printed on the dollar bill and it's not Christianity.

[–]3LiveAFTSOV 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Were the Christian Crusaders or Spanish Conquistadores religious extremists? Theocratic governments are lead by priests that rule for God. Leaders with religious beliefs / influences who are not "priests" lead to secular governments - like ours. Current theocracies include the Islamic Republics Of Iran & Saudi Arabia

All that was off topic though - I was commending the path of war rather than that of yogi / shaman / voodo witchdoctor.

Gotta give credit to Khan- 16 million modern day descendents. Sounds like a successful sexual strategy to me. No wonder those muslims go hard when they kill out there - it's for the 72 virgins! War is sacred for the Taliban - I find myself respecting muslims more and more.