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Red Pill TheoryConscious & subconscious attraction (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by __uwotm8__

In the RP circles it's often theorized that, through evolution, women have developed this sexual strategy of seeking an "alpha" to fuck, and a "beta" to provide for them. In this post I'll try share a quick thought I've had recently (which, to the best of my knowledge, hasn't been discussed anywhere) which tries to explain women's behavior from a different point of view. I am not saying that the prevailing theory is wrong. I am saying some more complex things might be hidden under the surface.

CONSCIOUS ATTRACTION

A conscious attraction is something a woman can rationalize about. When you ask her to describe the ideal guy, these are the things you will often hear her say. When it comes to marriage or LTRs, which are a calculated decision, women will often seek out this sort of attraction since they will know, on a conscious level, that it will benefit them in the long term. This includes:

  • Loyalty
  • Kindness
  • Intelligence
  • Emotional intelligence
  • Sense of humor
  • ...

SUBCONSCIOUS ATTRACTION

A subconscious attraction is a primal, animalistic form of attraction which is rarely beneficial to modern day women in the long term, but still exists as a sort of evolutionary relic. These are traits that used to be critical when choosing a mate, and thus have been engrained in women's subconscious, primal mind. They will often have a hard time rationalizing just why these things are attractive. When it comes to sex, which is inherently an animalistic, irrational, short term thing, women will seek out these traits. This includes:

  • Height
  • Symmetry
  • Strength
  • Confidence
  • Social status
  • ...

CONSCIOUS/SUBCONSCIOUS SPECTRUM

This isn't a black or white kind of thing, every attractive trait you can think of will probably fit somewhere on a conscious/subconscious spectrum. I would argue that where in the spectrum a trait lies, correlates with when in the evolutionary process it became beneficial in selecting mates. For example, having good facial symmetry is probably very far on the subconscious side (exists in virtually every animal), while having lots of resources (money) is somewhere in between (women are instinctively drawn to it, but they can also rationalize why it's important to them).

WHEN IS SOMETHING ATTRACTIVE

Instead of asking "is this alpha? is this beta? is this attractive?", I think we should ask "when is this attractive?". When it comes to making rational decisions, which require a lot of thought (like deciding to get married) the conscious attraction traits will be crucial. But when it comes to something like having a one night stand no one will ever know about, then these are thrown out the window, and are replaced with the subconscious traits. And then of course, you have everything in between, when a varying mix of these attraction types is taken into account, depending on the context and how much thought is put into the decision.

ALPHA FUCKS BETA BUCKS

Back to women's sexual strategy and "alpha fucks vs. beta bucks". We often put men in these 2 buckets. The beta provider is this loyal, friendly nice guy who brings in the resources, while the alpha pool boy is this young, shredded and confident guy who ends up fucking his wife. In this scenario what we have is one guy who has a lot of conscious attraction (which got him the marriage) but lacks any subconscious attraction. The other guy has a lot of subconscious attraction (which got him the pussy) but lacks any conscious attraction. I would argue that this is not a binary thing, rather, every man has a mix of several attractive traits, some are conscious, some are subconscious, and the mix each of us has (or displays) is evaluated differently, depending on when (or, in which context) it is evaluated (and to some degree, who does the evaluation). Of course, some guys will have very little of both (incels), while others will have a lot of both. I think that, in order to maximize our success with women, we should try to have as many attractive traits as possible, both conscious and subconscious ones.

ANALOGY

Let me explain this with a non-sexual analogy. When I buy my food for the week, I purposely get only the healthy stuff: vegetables, chicken, eggs, oats, etc. I do this consciously, because I know that this is good for me. I've read about it. I've seen the effect on my body. I know, rationally, that this is what I need in my kitchen. But, I'll admit, every now and then I'll indulge myself in a bucket of ice cream. Why? Fuck if I know! Perhaps, our ancestors needed sugars as easy-to-consume energy sources, and as a species we have developed a reward mechanism for it. It tastes fucking great! And even though I know I shouldn't eat it, I still do when I feel like it. Now, this doesn't mean that I have a strategy. There is no subconscious algorithm here telling me "step 1: buy chicken, step 2: eat ice cream" (although, an alien examining my behavior might theorize that there is a hidden strategy). There's nothing like that. There's just me being human, and as my levels of conscious decision making change, depending on context, so are the things I choose to eat. Now, if I had ice cream that was also healthy for me... I would eat the fuck out of that, every day, all day. This is what we should aspire to be.


[–]LotBuilder 127 points128 points  (10 children)

We all know girls that will be vegetarians or vegans and 95% of the time they make conscious decisions on what they are eating... but while drunk at 2am on Saturday morning they are double fisting cheese burgers or eating a whole pizza.

That’s how they are with men. 95% of the time they are looking for a really nice guy that will worship them and put up with their bullshit. You want to be the guy they are thinking of the other 5% of time when they want to get playfully manhandled.

[–]latinasonly 31 points32 points  (1 child)

id say its far greater than 5% of the time that girls are looking for alphas over betas, especially when girls are young and out looking for "fun". many girls in their younger years associate exclusively with alpha men.

[–]LotBuilder 21 points22 points  (0 children)

Oh, they all want an alpha that they can train to behave like a beta when it suits them. When they realize that doesn’t work they change gears.

[–]Pezotecom 30 points31 points  (0 children)

That's how we men act too (at least on the blue pill spectrum).
95% of the time men want to fuck, the other 5% it's them thinking to have a true emotional bond that doesn't require sex and it's unconditional.

[–]ethical_pa 10 points11 points  (2 children)

This is what I wanted to say. This "mix of strategy" to attract women is still playing into the BB game. The whole appeal of being AF is that you don't have to play into that game. Freedom. Sure, women might hate you, spit vitriol at you, lack "respect" for you, shame you, etc.... buuuut they'll fuck you with NSA. It beats the shit BBs have to deal with. They REALLY get fucked over by women, in the long run.

The idea is to get good at capitalizing on the 5%, as you mentioned, so you can have a lot of sex from many different women. Let the BBs deal with all of their other bullshit 95% of the time.

Also, I know you were just using it as mostly an illustration, but I would argue that it's more than 5%. There are many different triggers, either social or based on how she is feeling at the time, that will inspire her to cheat and go for the AF. The "sluttier" she feels about it, the more the poor BB will have to suffer. Remember, it's never her fault so it must be because of something the BB did or is lacking.

[–]LotBuilder 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Your last sentence is an ice cold glass of truth. They way they spin and justify anything is comical. As I have taken TRP and am evolving from a BB to AF I notice the girls I am fucking treating their beta orbiters and “boring boyfriends” like shit. The way they talk about them like they are an annoyance is sad. The poor guys are giving a misguided effort to “be nice”.

[–]ethical_pa 5 points6 points  (0 children)

It is a hard truth. And a bitter... pill to swallow ;) I'm slowly evolving too and starting to see this shit first hand. When you read about it at first, you sort of accept it as theory, but figure it's not actually THAT bad. When you start to see it for yourself, you die a little inside. C'est la vie... death, rebirth, growth.

To be fair, some girls are nicer to their BBs (and AFs for that matter). They still do what they do though.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children)

These girls also snort cocaine... like..." hey, save the animals!.. and lets ignore the humans that died in the process of getting this cocaine up my nose.. "

[–]LotBuilder 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Totally, I know girls that are extremely health conscious 99% of the time, but will swallow pills from random strangers at a music festival.

[–]ReformSociety -1 points0 points  (1 child)

Tip: Don't use "Totally" ever again.

[–]Red90210 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah u/reformsociety is totally right.

[–]cimsoc 25 points26 points  (1 child)

Good post— I agree that it’s important to maximize every attraction factor.

I’d argue that two most easily improved and important factors are strength and income.

[–]ezray11 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Income is very hard to increase while still in school/college but strength is definitely very easy to improve and is very effective when you’re up against practically no competition.

[–]__uwotm8__[S] 40 points41 points  (12 children)

Edit: I put this as part of the original post.

ANALOGY

Let me explain this with a non-sexual analogy. When I buy my food for the week, I purposely get only the healthy stuff: vegetables, chicken, eggs, oats, etc. I do this consciously, because I know that this is good for me. I've read about it. I've seen the effect on my body. I know, rationally, that this is what I need in my kitchen. But, I'll admit, every now and then I'll indulge myself in a bucket of ice cream. Why? Fuck if I know! Perhaps, our ancestors needed sugars as easy-to-consume energy sources, and as a species we have developed a reward mechanism for it. It tastes fucking great! And even though I know I shouldn't eat it, I still do when I feel like it. Now, this doesn't mean that I have a strategy. There is no subconscious algorithm here telling me "step 1: buy chicken, step 2: eat ice cream" (although, an alien examining my behavior might theorize that there is a hidden strategy). There's nothing like that. There's just me being human, and as my levels of conscious decision making change, depending on context, so are the things I choose to eat. Now, if I had ice cream that was also healthy for me... I would eat the fuck out of that, every day, all day. This is what we should aspire to be.

[–]songone2 4 points5 points  (2 children)

Try keto ice cream, and as a whole, try to get on the keto diet, its fuckin fantastic.

[–]__uwotm8__[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Other than oats and vegetables (occasionally fruit), I hardly eat any carbs as it is. I thought of trying keto, but it seems way too strict for my lifestyle and I don’t think it’s worth it. It’s the “all or nothing” aspect of keto that is just way too much for me.

[–]songone2 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You could have a cheat once a week technically, but I get what you're saying. I just feel like I need to have a regimen that benefits me together with training, so keto fits the picture.

[–]Ezaar 2 points3 points  (5 children)

I heard sugar is important for the brain.

[–]Zarathustraliver 7 points8 points  (4 children)

The brain runs better on ketone bodies. These fuels increase mitochondrial density (more energy), and increase Brain-Derived-Neurotrophic-Factor ('brain fertiliser' that causes brain growth). Breastfed babies are naturally in ketosis because ketones are a reliable near-limitless fuel source unlike sugar which can swing up-and-down. The brain can get Alzeimers otherwise known as 'diabetes type 3' from using sugar too much. Basically your brain cells become insulin resistant.

[–]Ghyslain333 3 points4 points  (3 children)

Can you give links to support these claims regarding the causality between Alzheimer and insulin resistance in the brain cells? I'd be very interested to learn more about it.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Its well documented and you can feel the effects immediately after switching to ATP/fat as your fuel source instead of just sugars.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

What is in the ice cream that your body is craving? And how do you get that thing in a more natural form?

[–]Zarathustraliver 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ice-cream is very energy dense. Also the casein in dairy can be addictive. Making homemade ice cream with stevia could be an option. 'Themusclephd' website has good recipies for low carb high fat high protein options.

[–]beatsbystrad 25 points26 points  (8 children)

I came from all... I stumbled into something serious, didn't I?

[–]Sirkisskindofman 27 points28 points  (1 child)

Yes and no. Depends on what you make and take from the material provided here. Sometimes it's comedy, sometimes it's real shit. It all comes down to your abilities as an intelligent person to find the truth yourself. Enjoy the show

[–]ethical_pa 5 points6 points  (0 children)

MOTHER FUCKER THERE AIN'T NO GOING BACK! YOU IN THIS SHIT FOREVER NOW! FOREVER!!

THE CONSEQUENCES WILL NEVER BE THE SAME!!!

[–]eccentricrealist 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Welcome to the first day of the rest of your life. From here on out every day you'll be better than the last.

[–]Anthroider 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Weird.. I thought they banned trp from reaching /all

[–]JOHN_MOLESTA 16 points17 points  (1 child)

Yup and welcome to the party!

[–]FlabbergastedLGBTQ 8 points9 points  (2 children)

Yeah brah good thing I'm jacked af and alpha af always hit that ranch

[–]LotBuilder 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Good point. As we get closer to 50/50 we make better decisions. We still dabble with dirty girls but our eyes are wide open and we are not putting them on a pedestal.

[–]Bhunnah 8 points9 points  (4 children)

For manlets:

A model using only linear and quadratic selection on the shoulder-to-hip ratio accounted for 79.6% of variation in relative attractiveness scores (centered to remove differences among women in their average attractiveness scores). The explanatory power of height and penis size when added separately to this model was almost identical. Both traits significantly improved the fit of the model (log-likelihood ratio tests: height: χ2 = 106.5, df = 3, P < 0.0001; penis: χ2 = 83.7, df = 3, P < 0.0001). Each trait, respectively, explained an extra 6.1% and 5.1% of the total variation in relative attractiveness.

So dick size is more important than height. But what was interesting is that height accounted for only a 5.1% variation. It makes sense because one on one male fighting is essentially wrestling and who can straddle the opp first wins, and world class wrestlers are compact and stocky.

Women with higher BMI’s preferred bigger flaccid penises. Which makes sense because bigger flaccid penises distribute heat better and bigger bodies produce more heat.

[–]Arabian_Wolf 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I believe manlet height range differ from country to country.

I'm 5'11 and above average at my place, where I'd be below average at say somewhere in Scandinavia.

[–]__uwotm8__[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I honestly don’t understand how this is relevant

[–]kylerosa21 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This is similar line of thinking to what one of the Vanguards says: alpha is exciting, beta is comforting. The key is to find a balance of both. If we elaborate on your theory, the key should then be to find a balance between subconscious attraction and conscious attraction.

[–]eye_engineer 2 points3 points  (3 children)

Conscious attraction = forebrain / cerebrum mediated - it is dependant on higher level thinking (this nice friendly person has a lot of resources which will put my children in a good position)

Subconscious attraction = limbic system/hindbrain mediated - automatic subconscious attraction which is dependent on whether or not a person stimulates the limbic system by portraying perceived dominannce

[–]__uwotm8__[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Thanks! You seem familiar with what I was getting at, are there any relevant studies or something? Doesn’t have to be about gender dynamics.

[–]ZeppKfw 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Don't you think this is a bit useless? Most girls would be like "I want this" yet not really knowing what they fucking want.

[–]__uwotm8__[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It’s useful if we learn how to use it

[–]indeydius 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Rollo has covered all this. Attraction vs. Arousal.

[–]Iwannachokekatie 2 points3 points  (2 children)

symmetry

Low key avoiding saying 'good looking face'

[–]__uwotm8__[S] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Saying “good looking” kinda begs the question of “why is this good looking? What makes X attractive?”. I was trying to distill attraction to the bare minimal elements. You can throw in other things like strong jaw, full hair, etc. If you ask what makes those attractive, there really is no way to break it down further. It just is. Why is ice cream good? Because it has sugar. What makes sugar good? It just is.

[–]Pilliam66 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What makes sugar good?

It's a dense source of quick release energy