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Red Pill TheoryThe "I'm Waiting on Commitment/Marriage for Sex" shit test (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by justtenofusinhere

This is a very common shit test. So common it's become normalized and I suspect a lot of people can't see how or why it's a shit test. The short explanation is that it, as per the usual, tries to shift a burdon rightfully belonging the woman onto a man.

A lot of posters on TRP strongly advocate not to wait for sex, or at least not to wait very long. The usual rational is that it is never in one's best interest to wait for it. Waiting is a path to scarcity wich is counter productive. That's accurate and all one really needs to know.

But there is value in understanding why it's a shit test. I'll use an analogy to illustrate why women do it in the two most likely scenarios where they employ it: she's afraid to have sex because she never has before or she's afraid to have sex because she has in the past and it didn't get her what she wanted.

Imagine a restaurant. There is a reason no restaurant ever operated under the model of: come in and take anything/everything you want and only pay what you feel. That's ridiculous. Thinking this would make you rich is idiotic; the owner's would be bankrupted in no time. But, that's what a lot of women do. They want something from men, quite a bit actually, and think the best way to get it is to offer what they have for free*.

*Terms and conditions apply. Free does not necessarily mean free, free really means obligation of indefinite terms and duration so long as I want it.

They then get pissed off when they have nothing to show for it. So, they try to change up the business model. Now, they want your money up front and they might-after having had pleanty of time to spend your money and see how much it can get them-give you something in return--but they are under no obligation to do so.

How many of you would go to such a restaurant? Would you listen to the proprieter explainhow they were taken advantage of previously so now they have to ask you to come in a few times a weeks for the next 6 motnhs and plop down money so they can pay off their debts from before and maybe in a few more months they'll give you something to eat? You'd know instantly said person was either a conman or an idiot. So why buy it when a girl does the same thing?

It's no different when the reason is the girl has never had sex before. You'd get up and walk out if the proprietor of a restaurant said, I'm not sure I can make a go of this business thing, so give me your money over the next several months/years and if I feel confident I can make this work, then I'll start to give you food, but until then I'll save it in case I need to sell/give it to someone else.

When it comes to dating women have a huge burden-the burden to vet potential mates. It is much easier for them to get men to do that job for them. One way is by having them wait around on some pretext. SHe gets the benefit of the relationship without any of the cost or risk. Since there is little or no risk, the need to vet is greatly reduced and errors in vetting greatly mitigated. That he gets nothing in return isn't relevant.

If you wait for sex, you are giving her benefit with nothing in return and doing her job for her. I'm not saying a woman must sleep with you in five minutes of meeting you or she's nexted. I'm saying, she gets no benfeit until she gives it. If she needs to vet you before sleeping with you, fine, but let her vet you on her own time and her own dime.


[–]3CainPrice 142 points143 points  (16 children)

Sex is one of those things that is a little more complicated than a good or service, and the things people trade for it are a little more complicated than money.

Really, there are two kinds of sex out there: real sex and transactional sex.

If a woman wants to have sex with you - like really, really wants to have sex with you - and the way you look and the way you act and the way you interact with her and everything else about you makes her super-horny and she is literally soaking through her underwear sitting next to you while you have a hand on her, she's not going to demand a marriage proposal or a relationship of at least X number of months where you demonstrate how serious you are about her. If you're having real sex with a woman who actually wants to have sex with you, analogies about restaurants and money go out the window. Two people who want to have sex are having sex.

But if a woman is kind of so-so attracted to you - like, not exploding with desire for sex with you, but not completely unwilling either - that's where transactions come into play. That woman is going to try to make you make her feel good about herself before putting out, whether that means a relationship, fancy dates, or whatever.

If you're in category #2 with a woman, I don't think there's much point in going to any type of metaphorical restaurant, no matter who's paying what at what time. The sex is going to suck, and you're paying way more than you should when you can get it for free from a woman who actually wants you. The only kind of guy who plays metaphorical restaurant games with a girl is a guy that women don't actually desire sexually.

The whole point of understanding intersexual dynamics and improving yourself is to cheat this transactional system entirely. Become the kind of guy in category #1, or at least learn how to fake it, and don't pay for sex at all. If you're playing the metaphorical restaurant game with a girl, you've already relegated yourself to category #2.

[–]1-Fidelio- 48 points49 points  (1 child)

Honestly the description of "the sex is going to suck" is my experience with a lot of restaurants too; the people that work there aren't passionate about making good food, the food is going to suck and it's going to be overpriced.

When you're finished you're left wondering why you didn't just eat at home by yourself.

Or put some plates on the table to indulge on that.

[–]Morphs_ 16 points17 points  (0 children)

This analogy is getting better and better

[–][deleted] 21 points22 points  (0 children)

If we fuck, it’s good because I’m good at fucking. Women can be hot or cold for various reasons.

Pay for sex or don’t. There is a market only in the sense of how much time, attention, and money are you willing to put out for a wet hole. The men that have good systems, in one way or another, pay the least.

If you need a reason to be beast mode, everything in your life gets better when you choose to be masculine. Build yourself and reap the rewards.

[–]SasquatchMcKraken 23 points24 points  (3 children)

This 1,000x. You can't negotiate desire. We think of chicks who fuck on the 1st date as sluts when ironically the very definition of a whore is someone who gives sex in exchange for something valuable. Don't deal with whores, gentlemen.

[–]BobbyPeru 2 points3 points  (1 child)

We think of chicks who fuck on the 1st date as sluts when ironically the very definition of a whore is someone who gives sex in exchange for something valuable

Ha! I never thought of it that way, but it’s true. The chicks that make a guy worknfor sex by buying dinners, validating...etc, they are the whores because it’s transactional . I banged a girl the first day I met her recently, and she wasn’t a whore because we both just wanted to fuck each other, and I picked up a $10 meal on the way to my house.

[–]SasquatchMcKraken 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yep. All that other shit is for the back end. Even the most BP she-males, if you caught them in an honest moment, want the physical on the front end. And if she's into you she's more than happy to provide it in the hopes that she'll get all that other shit later. If you immediately whore out your time and money, what's the point? Why would a kid eat his meal if you've already given him dessert?

[–]3CainPrice 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I -only- deal with women who fuck me on the first date. Maybe second if we at least fooled around a little on the first and it was primarily logistics that thwarted sex.

The huge majority of women out there have had casual sex. I don't care if a woman is slutty. Most are. Sure, some more than others, but most are at least a little slutty. You've been slutty? You've had casual sex with guys you've just met? You've had more than a little casual sex? Whatever. That's fine. Hell, that's great. That means we'll have fun.

But if you're a slutty girl, that means you're slutty for me. That means we fuck on the first date, too. And every other date. That means you're forward and flirty and dirty with me, just like you'd be with a guy you were meeting for a casual hook-up. If you're slutty for other guys, but want me to wait until the third date, and every time we fuck, I have to wine and dine you and make you feel special and reassure you that this is a prim and proper romance novel we're living? Screw that.

Be slutty if you want, and if that's fun for you, but that means when you're with me, you're my little slut. I have no tolerance for slutty girls who try to pretend they're something else with me. And most girls love that. Because they can be themselves with me. They get fun, love, and good dick, all in an atmosphere of being free to be as dirty as they want without judgment.

[–]Endorsed Contributorex_addict_bro 8 points9 points  (2 children)

Dear unicorn seeker, that “real” sex is still transactional, only the need for transaction comes from lower parts of the brain.

[–]3CainPrice 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I suppose in the very, very broad definition of "transaction", yes, all sex is transnational.

If you want a microwaveable burrito and I sell microwaveable burritos in my convenience store, so you come into the store and you buy a microwaveable burrito, and that burrito fulfills your craving for burritos, that's definitely a "transaction", but you approached me for a burrito and you got a burrito and it satisfied your desire for burrito.

If it's hot outside and you're uncomfortable, so you come into my convenience store to enjoy the air conditioning, and you buy a pack of gum while you're there just so I'll let you hang out, and you bring five or six of your guy friends, too, you didn't really want gum. But you gave me a cheap purchase so you could enjoy my air conditioning. That's a different sort of transaction.

[–]Endorsed Contributorex_addict_bro -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Your goal should be to have 5 or so fast food joints, calling you, asking what do you want for dinner. Unfortunately for you it seems you’ve got a convenience store owner mentality.

[–]justtenofusinhere[S] 3 points4 points  (3 children)

You're addressing women who are in between the two stages I explored. There is usually a period where women have pushed through their virginal hesitancy but have yet to learn the benefit of restraint. You are also assuming women can only be emotional and impulsive.

[–]3CainPrice 28 points29 points  (2 children)

Okay. Let's say you're sitting next to this woman who has rational reasons to restrain herself from sex, independent of whether she wants you passionately and is restraining herself or whether she's trying to transact something from you first.

The "Red Pill" thing to do in this situation isn't to keep negotiating with this woman, as though she's the only woman on earth to have sex with. It's to find a woman in category #1, above, and have sex with her instead.

The way you blow past an "I'm waiting until commitment" shit test is to shrug, say okay, and fuck someone else. Maybe when you stop texting for awhile because you're too busy having sex with other women, she reaches out to you. Maybe she doesn't. You're not going to logic some woman who said no because she wants commitment into sex, so thinking about restaurant analogies is really just mental masturbation.

[–]justtenofusinhere[S] 14 points15 points  (0 children)

There is no negotiating, that's what I'm saying. There is sex or there is nothing. Negotiating is a shit test. If she needs time, fine, she can have as much time as she wants, on her own dime and at her own cost. Your time and attention will be elsewhere doing what you need to do while she's doing whatever it is she needs to do.

[–]prawnfynder2 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This. Dont fuck with girls who are wishy washy. Just find ladies that want to fuck. That can at least grow into something good. Her pussy is the way to her heart.

[–]RaughKee 32 points33 points  (2 children)

If sex is an exchange, you are her beta and the frequency will be decreasing while the price increases. A woman will crawl over land mines and barb wire to be with an alpha.

[–]justtenofusinhere[S] 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Sex is always transactional for a woman. The only issues are what does she want and how blantant is she about pursuing it? Even if the only thing she wants is you, it's still transactional. She's giving you what she has in exchange for what she wants.

[–]TheYekke 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Disagree. Huge difference between transactional (grudgingly) and validational sex (willingly). The difference between raw-dogging in the apartment hot tub that half the tenants can watch and pity sex 12 months later with the lights off (same two people, by the way).

[–]ArdAtak 15 points16 points  (5 children)

All I know is the women I have sex with get a lot more out of it than I do. I work my ass off, give them multiple O's and the feelz & tingles they can only get from a true Alpha. I enjoy myself too but it's obvious it means a lot more to them than it does to me judging from the cascade of obsessive texts that follow.

So, in a way, I feel I'm being generous and they should be grateful. Or maybe I'm just feeling extra swaggy today. But that should really be your outlook. You are the prize. If they make it unpleasant or not worth your while to be with them, then next them and move on.

[–]boofboimac 0 points1 point  (4 children)

This may sound a bit weird but do you know the technique to use give multiple Os for women? Is it just penis size? I wouldn’t say I’m packing but I wouldn’t say I’m small either, 7 inches is above the average but I honestly just am in it 100% for myself but in order to keep plates around for years they need to be sexually satisfied while chasing your validation. What’s your method if you don’t mind me asking

[–]majaka1234 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Most girls don't cum from penetrative sex. Also dick size isn't really correlated to pleasure unless you're tiny.

Look up "how to make a girl have a squirting orgasm". Not every girl squirts but this stuff definitely makes every girl go nuts.

[–]daveed1297 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Clit stimulation, light choking, change of pace, change of depth, dirty talk, physical control (holding arms, legs, waist, hair FIRMLY), and proper foreplay is the sum of it.

[–]BrownGummyBear 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I have made every single woman I’ve been with cum by just using my mouth and fingers. If you know how to lick good and stimulate her G spot you don’t even need to undress yourself to make her go crazy

[–]ArdAtak 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The number one rule is pay attention their body, breathing, and sounds they make. Every single girl is a little different and you have to figure them out although it typically comes down to 2 or 3 types.

Some girls respond strongly to stimulation by hand / fingers. Some prefer the cock. With fingers, you should completely understand the difference between clitoral, vaginal, and cervical orgasms. They're 3 different things and require different techniques. Start with clitoral, transition to vaginal. I don't bother doing cervical with my hands. I let the cock handle it. Some like it fast, some like it slow. Most like it hard, a few require a gentle touch. One girl just wanted me to keep in deep in here and she would grind a little and cum. Some like to cum on top and some can't. Just pay attention and ask questions. Not like a rookie but just to get a feel what they like or want.

[–]1redhawkes 53 points54 points  (3 children)

It's simple, really. Sex first, anything else later.

The second she tries to weaponize her pussy, you're out.

Guys are brainwashed to think that having sex with chicks is taking something from them. This way, chicks exploit them and use sex as a carrot on a stick, be it free dinners, money, attention/validation etc.

You need to understand that if some hoe is sexually attracted to you, she won't make you wait, but fuck you on the first night.

On the other hand, a hoe whos going to put bullshit like OP's title or I've been hurt in the past, is wasting your time. Her pussy won't turn golden, she's just wasting your most important asset - your time.

Iron Rule of Tomassi #3

Any woman who makes you wait for sex, or by her actions implies she is making you wait for sex; the sex is NEVER worth the wait.

[–]Quaternionz 33 points34 points  (0 children)

Yeah, if she's weird about sex just bail. It's not a shit test, those girls are just fucked in the head.

  • She's 27 and she spent the first 10 years of her sex life fucking broke drug dealer bad boys, but now she wants a nice stable guy with money to commit to her, so she's going to play the good girl routine and make me wait. No thanks, I'm out. Too many fun carefree 20 year olds out there.

  • She subscribes to some extreme form of her religion. I'm out.

  • She's been hurt in the past and is afraid to have normal healthy sexual relationships, or doesn't know how. I'm out.

There are so many reasons. It's better to just move on quickly and find the girls who are genuinely into you and accept your advances, or give you LMR that's playful, flirtaous, and easy/fun to blow past.

[–]PM_ME_UR_SOLES_GIRLL 8 points9 points  (0 children)

It's best to not try to rationalize or agonize why a broad won't fuck either. You could look like her ex that raped her. She could get a headache. She could be reminded of her granny that died that week and want to go home and cry.

[–]simplisticallysimple 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Sex with me is win-win. Any woman who implies that she's "paying me" or "rewarding me" by having sex with me gets ghosted permanently.

[–]break1ngbard 10 points11 points  (7 children)

Back in my college days before TRP I ran into this in my first week of college, saw it as a challenge, and spent four years going steady with the "christian virgin".

Lost my virginity to her two years in and she was a 7.5 so it wasnt that bad of an L initially.

But the way she broke it off with me in senior year (just before graduation) and was down to be fwb while monkey branching to her hometown Chad made me realize one thing:

The celibate/virgin types embrace hypergamy almost more than the average woman.

Wish my younger self could have found this post the summer before college...

[–]SKRedPill -3 points-2 points  (6 children)

What's this whole trend of guys claiming to 'lose virginity' to a woman, huh? This is yet another result of trying to identify with women and feminine correct expressions. I suppose this was kick started by a guy who failed a shit test "Why should only women feel like they've lost virginity? After all men have sex for the first time too...?"

Guy enters her frame so much he actually wants to say he lost his virginity to her... and so a meme was born. You realize how all pervasive the BP is?

[–]break1ngbard 7 points8 points  (2 children)

Im glad vernacular matters more than content keyboard warrior

[–]SKRedPill 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Look buddy, we use more feminine correct paradigms even in really small things. I just wanted to point out that. Men don't mentally think like this naturally, we just do this because women have been telling us so long that the masculine way of looking at the world (i.e. masculine frame) is a disease. It was only when I went to college that this whole thing of guys 'losing virginity' entered my ears, and even then I thought it was sarcastic.

Later I realized this had become fashionable.

[–]break1ngbard 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I can agree with women telling us to see things from a feminine perspective and that they are constantly striving to condition us to speak the way they do.

I'd even go so far as to say that after a failed attempt of suicide in middle school due to low self-esteem, high school lunches spent in the library because social skills were beyond me at the time that I likely wasnt as well adjusted to a redpill frame before college (and even knowing about TRP community) as you were.

As someone who shifted careers against the suggestion of former friends that were risk-adverse to a finding inner strength and value simultaneously as I became a better version of myself, I apologize for my feminine-agenda phrasing of:

Had sex for the first time with a religous woman

...in my original post.

I was aiming to support the OP's stance of religious women being a zero sum game but diction is important.

[–]simplisticallysimple 1 point2 points  (2 children)

How do you say you had sex for the first time then? What do you call a man who has been celibate his whole life?

[–]Morphs_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Curious about that too. In my language there are actually two different terms for both females and males. The female version translates to "un-maiden" and the male version is roughly to "un-boy", although the female version is used 99%of the time for males as well.

[–]ReformingBeta 8 points9 points  (1 child)

It’s quite simple. There’s no such thing as free sex. At least on a recurring basis with the same woman. You might get away with a few “free samples” to entice you into purchasing the goods. But the bill is going to come due if you choose to hang around, and there will be a price to pay. Perhaps the price is exclusivity, which Rollo advises is a bad deal for a man, or perhaps the price is an LTR or marriage, which can be an even worse deal for a man.

[–]Aesthetik_1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That’s probably the biggest reason men either leave or cheat, the longer you stick around the higher that price tag becomes. The pace at which it happens varies but it comes down to the same pattern. This implies that spinning plates = hopping from free sample to free sample while keeping the prices down.

[–]NorthEasternNomad 13 points14 points  (1 child)

I responded, universally, with the "sorry, I test drive cars before I buy them for a reason" response. And never, ever budged.

But then, I'm not married. Which is fine with me.

[–]Endorsed ContributorTaipanshimshon 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Welcome to 2018.

If she wants something other than your dick in exchange for getting your dick, and you do not want to give her these things .... don’t.

It’s not like her pussy is magic and you can’t get other pussy ... right ???

[–]Endorsed Contributorex_addict_bro 9 points10 points  (1 child)

I encourage you to start being balls deep in woman instead of woman’s frame. Downvoted.

[–]Shaney96 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If she needs to vet you before sleeping with you, fine, but let her vet you on her own time and her own dime.

Sometimes I wonder how many of the authors of posts on here have actually read the sidebar and extended reading...

Apart from discussion/criticism in the comments, I struggle to see what value posts like this bring to this community.

[–]TunedtoPerfection 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Men or Women both despite transaction sex. They will submit to that type of frame if:

A) The man has no other options

B) The women is shamed into it

But neither of them actively WANT that type of sex. So trying to compare this shit test to a transaction situation such as a restaurant giving food for money shows an innate lack of understanding of this issue.

It's simple do not be exclusive with any woman who isn't enthusiastically fucking you.
You can see her, go on dates, spend money on her, whatever YOU desire to do if it makes YOUR life better. But in no way shape or form do you stop hitting up other women for a woman your not fucking. Hell, hit on other women when your out with them if you want, I do it. If they have a problem with it, tell'em tough shit, treat them like you would your guy friends at that point. I hang out with women I'm not fucking, we go to dinner or mini golf, go karting etc together anything I would do with male friends. But these women know I will drop any plans with them on a dime if I'm horny and a plate is down to be plowed into the headboard for the night, just like I would with my male friends. Do I always ditch them for sex, nope, sometimes I rather just chill with them.

But I have options and they know it, it's okay to be friends with women, it's not okay to pretend your in a relationship and do everything BUT have sex when your around them. If all you wanted her for was sex, then yeah if she isn't into you like that drop her, be that level of asshole it's fine. Your not gonna negotiate attraction in anyway shape or form just remember that, so if she isn't adding ANYTHING to your life then stop coming around, simple as that. Women can add a lot to your life other then a few warm holes, it's up to YOU to decide if what they have to offer is worth YOUR time, just like you would with male friends.

*Note: Just because your fucking doesn't make you exclusive either. Sex is a requirement for exclusivity, but exclusivity is not a requirement for sex.

[–]SKRedPill 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Tell me something a woman says that ISN'T a shit test.

[–]3whatsthisgarg 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Tell me something a woman says that ISN'T a shit test.

"We should probably fuck before we eat."

[–]smokecheck1976 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Oh for the days of good honest courtship. There was a time, in the not so distant past, when a guy asked a girl out for ice cream or something like that, both sides knew it was going to be just that, ice cream and conversation. He may walk her home if he feels it went well. She might give him a hug before she went in the house if she feels it went well. Honestly, everyone could figure out where they stood pretty quick.

If it escalated, they could expect their dates would be chaperoned by people that were acting in loco parentis or a member of her family. He would be expected to make a positive impression on her family. They might be allowed to "date" alone when her father had given his blessings for an engagement. Then it was expected that they were both virgins when they married. It was closer to patriarchy than now, both men and women were one hell of a lot more honest with each other.

Yes, there were still women/girls that let their passion get the better of their common sense, but the term "shotgun wedding" wasn't always a metaphor, either.

The biggest upside, back then incels and neckbeards knew specifically that they were the problem and they would either conform or be "sent away" from their community.

[–]Rob345678 7 points8 points  (10 children)

But what about girls who want to have sex with you but refrain for religious reasons?

That is actually a legit reason and not a shit test

[–]SKRedPill 1 point2 points  (3 children)

If only you know what a lot of 'religious good girls' are doing - go read it on quora's confessions if you don't believe me.

[–]Rob345678 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Ohhhh trust me I know.. I believe you 100%.

[–]SKRedPill 1 point2 points  (0 children)

To your original argument, women are basically an emotional contest inside - and it tears them apart in a way men seldom experience (men get mad and angry, but not cognitively dissonant at this scale). So it's fear of god vs shame / ASD vs lust. One of them wins and that will decide how she'll behave. If no one emotion can outdo the other, it's confusion and turmoil.

Part of a man's job in attraction is to set that mess right -- that's what's called escalation.

[–]420KUSHBUSH 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You have a link for any threads in particular? You have piqued my curiosity

[–]justtenofusinhere[S] 3 points4 points  (4 children)

It's a shit test. Tell me a single religion that says a man should be married to someone other than his wife. A wife, by definition of all the religions I'm aware of, is sexually active with her husband. So, per religion, she's either your wife who you can sleep with or she isn't your wife and you have no responsibility towards her (unless she's your kinswoman).

NO RESPONSIBILITY TO HER.

That means nothing; she has no claim to your time, money, energy, or attention. Those are the things a man needs to secure himself a mate. Why would you place yourself in a worse situation so she doesn't have to? What ever you give her could have been invested by you into you so that you can increase your position. You give to her at a cost to yourself. SHe should do the same. If she wont, there' nothing else you need to know.

[–]Rob345678 9 points10 points  (3 children)

I meant in terms of premarital sex...some women follow their faith closely and want to wait until marriage before intercourse. That is a legit reason. They want to have sex but they put aside their desires for religious reasons.

If it’s your wife of course she should be having sex with you. All religions encourage that. It’s before marriage I am referring too.

[–]Cgbgjr 11 points12 points  (1 child)

You have no way of knowing whether she is telling you the truth about her sexual history and religious belief--none--since a rational man will not take what she says at face value. AWALT says when in doubt assume she is lying. Act accordingly.

[–]PM_ME_UR_SOLES_GIRLL 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Right? People take the time in life and expend a ton of energy to lie about the most minuscule things , for the most minor gains. Why wouldn't they then lie for bigger fish?

[–]justtenofusinhere[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

First, is it your religion? If so, what does it require of YOU. That's the only consideration you need. Leave her beliefs to her and you follow your beliefs and don't let anyone interfere with that, for any reason.

Second, if she says no sex before marriage and you feel the need to honor that, that doesn't change anything for you. SHe's not your wife until she's your wife. That means you aren't married until you are and you do not need to treat her as such until she is. She is not anything to you until she is and need not be treated as such until then.

I would not spend my time or money on any random woman, just because. Do not give yours to her just because. What are you getting in return? If she wants to wait a year to marry you, fine, you'll wait a year to treat her like your wife. If she wants benefits NOW, demand benefits NOW. If there are no benfits NOW, yougive her none now.

Am I saying don't marry her in a year? Not if marrying her in a year is a good thing for you. What I am saying is that you then spend your time and energy on otherthings and other women for that year. She wants monogomy (tell her hell no), not until after the vows and after her virginity (no virginity means, by definition, no monogomy. Monogamy means ONE not one at a time). She wants your time? After her vows and her sex. She wants your commitment? After her commitment and her sex. SHe wants...you already know the reply.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 2 points3 points  (2 children)

So why buy it when a girl does the same thing?

Because: men WANT this. We want a woman all to ourselves, we believe the myth that it is possible. We prefer the woman we commit to not be complete whores.

This is true of both sexless betas and more experienced guys who have fucked a lot of women, but "want to settle down and be serious now". Both types fall for this trap.

Women do it because it works.

OP - your restaurant analogy is perfect. "I gave all the food away for free, that didn't work, so all customers must now pay for weeks in advance, and I'll decide later if they receive any food - most won't".

That's a shit deal for any man with options. Fortunately for Reformed Rachel, there's plenty of Billy Betas who have not cultivated an abundance mentality and who think this is a great deal.

When it comes to dating women have a huge burden-the burden to vet potential mates. It is much easier for them to get men to do that job for them. One way is by having them wait around on some pretext.

As a way to vet potential mates this is actually terrible as she'll quickly find out: this method filters out high quality men.

If she needs to vet you before sleeping with you, fine, but let her vet you on her own time and her own dime.

Walking away is the only option when presented with excessive [> 15 hours with you] commitment requirements.

Fundamentally this is one side of hypergamy... if she's making you wait, you are being exploited and she isn't attracted. It's that simple.

[–]Zech4riah 1 point2 points  (1 child)

As a way to vet potential mates this is actually terrible as she'll quickly find out: this method filters out high quality men.

Well said, that's exactly what it does.

And those two times when the girl hasn't agreed to have sex with me regardless of my escalation attemps over 3 dates, you should have seen their faces when they ask in the end of 3rd date that "When we see again?" and I say to the "Sorry but I think we shouldn't see again, it appears that we are not sexually compatible and I'm getting a bit too platonic vibe here".

[–]MrAnderzon 4 points5 points  (1 child)

I like your example of the restaurant. We should do the same thing women do to us.

Take as much as sex as we want and than maybe promise exclusivity but never actually give them that relationship.

[–]simplisticallysimple 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Take as much as sex as we want and than maybe promise exclusivity but never actually give them that relationship.

Many guys already do this. This is called sexzoning.

[–]615bachelor 4 points5 points  (5 children)

I don’t consider “ I’m waiting for marriage “ a shit test. Do you think a women will tell a high value man like Leonardo DiCaprio or Gronkowski that she is waiting for marriage ? Hell no. If a woman tells me this then I am out before she can finish the sentence. There are many hoes out here fucking niggas without commitment so why would I be a pozzed our faggot and wait like a good boy to get some already blown out Pussy.

Every women that I have fucked in my life I done it within a week. If a women makes you wait then she isnt AROUSED by you. There are so many bugged out beta male faggots getting married to post wall sluts who made them wait a few months before they got the Pussy. These guys will be getting duty sex for the rest of their lives . however, their wives was getting buttfucked by the starting baseball player on a spring break trip within a few hours.

It’s not your job to wait to have sex with a women who has been riding the cock carousel for 10+ years. During these years she has been fuckin all types of guys. It’s not your responsibility to “Man Up” . There are two types of sex . Porn star sex and duty sex. Waiting for a few months will always put you in the duty sex category.

[–]WoodWizzy87 8 points9 points  (4 children)

I disagree. You wouldn’t have laid my Catholic 28 year old sister who just got married and was a virgin till marriage. Call me naive, but her husband waited 2 1/2 fucking years to bang her. Stud, tall, money. Probably beta, but whatever.

All you guys are taking trp too fucking literal. They’re generalized rules for everyone to follow. There’s exceptions on both end. If she says she’s waiting till marriage and you try twice to get into her pants and she says no, she maybe hot for you, but her parents raised her right and said no sex before marriage. You guys are trying to science the shit out of trp when it’s not just science, there’s feelings and shit involved as well. Apparently dating and plates is suppose to be like running a business. Fuck that’s way too much work and stress. Let the bitches come and go as they please and not care if they break.

The 3 date rule works well for plates and fwb’s. It doesn’t work well for finding LTR’s. Any girl that’s giving it up to s guy within 3 dates has a high notch count. How many guys does she go through in a year 6-7? Per year? So a chick by mid 20’s has banged 30 guys? Plate status only. .5% of chicks are maybe ltr worthy

[–]SKRedPill 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Religion wouldn't be so bad if at least after marriage the sex was worth it - which is really true only for virgins and women who aren't alpha widowed - that was in fact true, once upon a time - I'm honestly astonished it still exists.

What we're concerned with is all the 'religious girls' who do a lot of things under the radar, and become incapable of offering their best in a marriage because they've been alpha widowed. Unlike men, women don't get better with experience.

[–]420KUSHBUSH 1 point2 points  (1 child)

All you guys are taking trp too fucking literal. They’re generalized rules for everyone to follow. There’s exceptions on both end

I only just realized this recently however I wholeheartedly agree with you

[–]WoodWizzy87 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yea man the one so over done is the 3 date rule. If she ain’t banging in 3 days next... yea she may be a secret ho, maybe not, maybe some chicks don’t want to bang strangers they barely know. I tend to like to vett girls before I stick my dick in crazy

[–]yomo86 1 point2 points  (0 children)

A woman's coin - her only coin of value: is sex. She will spent like there is no tomorrow on that hot exclusive Chad. Yet. The dollar store is just for the in-between laughs.

[–]SensualSeduction01 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I encourage people to get a bit meta on this. If a girl says that to you, why would you even bother wasting time on her? You’re getting better, you’re improving, getting stronger; go for the girls that are as interested in fucking you as you are in fucking them.

The quality of sex is not even comparable.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Way too many variables depending on the woman, the man, and what both are bringing to the table both consciously and sub-consciously to break this down in any way without complete specifics of the two individuals involved. One girl may really like you and not want you to think she's easy, the next may be mormon and actually seeing if you'll back off and respect her religious beliefs/see if you're and evil man who has sex outside of marriage. But neither of them, or any other woman for that matter, isn't dropping her pants on a dime for Brad Pitt, so there's just too many variables in play in this generalized scenario.

[–]justtenofusinhere[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Exactly, no matter what the "reason" it's all really just a shit test. Some men just have an easier time passing than others. Some men just get a pass.

[–]rigbed 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I took a virginity she was saving for marriage.

Turned out her mom had lost her virginity at the Same age.

Nevertheless she’s still marriage material. But she wants nothing to do with me.

[–]AlQWEffos239 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I remember reading a quote by a comedian it went along the lines of “ 90% of women in a relationship offer nothing other an sex”.

[–]plsbbyhelpme19 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Restaurant analogy is a beautiful thing. Thanks for it man, you clarified future plans for me

[–]plsbbyhelpme19 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What if it's an actually religious girl? I'm Middle Eastern, and those girls seem like the type to LTR.

Also, how can you tell when a shit test is really a shit test? Aren't they genuine concerns sometimes?

[–]Zech4riah 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Where is this shit test very common? I haven't ever heard it and even most PUAs or TRP posts (excluding this one) don't address this shit test which suggests that it isn't so common.

Maybe this shittest is reserved for blue pilled betas but tbh, I never came across this even in my blue pilled days (altho I never was so beta).

[–]colcrnch 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think of sex as a 1:1 exchange. It’s not like you are laying these women for sex is it?

[–]TheDonCap 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Then how exactly do you escalate with a woman that hasn’t done it before and is saving herself for religious purpose? next or?

[–]hearse223[🍰] 6 points7 points  (1 child)

If you aren't even on the same religious wavelength, you should probably move on to the next one.

Plenty of heathens out there to smash and they wont be expecting marriage proposals afterwards, why waste time trying to corrupt a virgin?

[–]justtenofusinhere[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Via the bare minimum investment of time/energy/resources. Your interest in her should never exceed her clear interest in you. Ideally, your interest in her is clearly less than hers in yours; your 2 to every one of her 3.

I'm not saying don't text, I'm saying only text for logistics. If she flakes, she reinitiates. If she says she's waiting, tell her she can catch up with you when she'd done waiting and ready to move.

[–]TheDonCap -1 points0 points  (0 children)

So if I wanted to pursue her it’s just standard procedure then and low investment of my time and interest in her?

[–]Snowshow1234 0 points1 point  (5 children)

My gf and I have been dating for 1.5 years. We're both in university living with our parents. We progressed through intimacy fairly quick and we did everything just before sex. She let me know in our first couple weeks together that she didn't want to have sex until marriage. She was my first gf and first person that I've been intimate with so I figured we could find other ways have fun.

We've been stuck at oral and dry(wet?) humping, basically just playing with her vagina with my dick. I've tried to push it in several times but she always said no and shifted her body. One time she even wanted me to try but I had part of the head in and she said it hurt too much.

I pushed her last week via text to let me go all the way and she basically said she can't until she's "stable" (living with me) which isn't going to happen until at least the next few years or marriage. She also said if she did it as a favour to me then she would hate herself and commit suicide. Basically telling me it's never going to happen. I always thought we'd eventually get there if I got her horny enough but it's looking clear by her words and actions that she's not interested in it at all.

So I'm going to break up when I meet her tomorrow. I've been avoiding texting her all week because I feel guilty talking to her normally when I know I'm about to break up with her. She might be expecting it. I've just been too frustrated and I can't stand having to deal with that for years more. It will ruin our relationship if I let it go on knowing her family values and religion won't ever let her have sex before marriage. I feel really guilty for letting her go over something that I was initially okay with, but angry that I let it go on this long and she expects me to wait until marriage for sex. Idk I just feel like shit in general though because it hurts to break such an otherwise great relationship.

[–]Razkolol 2 points3 points  (0 children)

She said she would commit suicide? First don't stick your dick in crazy; second, be very careful breaking up, go full beta on her, text her everyday after "are you ok?" "I'm so sorry" etc. ease the blow, you don't want blood on your hands. At one point she'll stop talking to you, then you're good to go.

[–]Snowshow1234 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Just an update. I did end up breaking up with her, basically saying her boundaries and my needs weren't compatible. She called me half an hour later saying she didn't want to give up on us and to meet up. She apologized for messaging me all crazy that night, said she had a bad day. Turns out her boundaries are flexible and she mainly wanted to make sure I was in it for the long run before she could go with it. We had a conversation about our future and I made it clear I'm not waiting for some point years from now for her to decide to have sex with me. She said she didn't know I was ready for it and she wants to start getting ready as well. I didn't give her a deadline or anything. The next time we met she gave me really good head (she was on her period so we didn't go down there).

Without really trying I think I'm running dread game on her. She knows if I'm not satisfied then I will leave the relationship and she's asking me every so often if I'm happy with her. Idk if she'll actually follow through with sex the next times the opportunity presents itself. I'm going to try to her there so it's an enjoyable experience for both of us, not something I'm coercing out of her. I guess I'll see what happens and go from there

[–]Brickles09 -1 points0 points  (2 children)

Wait! Don’t break with her yet. Improve yourself deeply, read the sidebar, and she will change her behaviour towards you. You said that once she wanted you to try, so it won’t be that hard. Do you lift?

[–]modRedForEducation 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Dude. Fuck off

[–]deontemartez -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

Listening to Rollo on this atm