Red Pill TheoryWhy Using Low N-Count To Vet Women Is Useless (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by Psychological_Radish

Guys around here debate endlessly about a woman's n-count, but what's the use? You will never be able to definitively prove that she is telling you the truth if she claims that her partner count is low.

The allure of utilizing the n-count as a barometer of LTR stability is obvious: it's a simple statistic that men can use to instantly qualify or disqualify a woman from commitment. To some extent, academic research backs the use of n-count as a qualifier, because a high number of sexual partners is correlated with future infidelity and relationship instability.

Of course, women are keenly aware that a tumultuous sexual history is perceived as a major liability for future commitment, while a low n-count is seen as a major asset. The solution? Simply lie.

Indeed, a study found that half of respondents (both men and women) had lied to a partner about sexual history. But a growing mountain of evidence suggests that sexual surveys themselves are unreliable, as people are reluctant to admit socially unacceptable behavior to researchers. When one study led participants to believe that they are hooked to a lie detector, the results conformed with RP truths: women downplayed their number, while men inflated it.

I suspect based on the collective experience of men on this sub that the true rate of 'sexual history revisionism' is far higher than currently believed.

"Okay," you say, "but I met my LTR from my extended social circle. I know her sexual history." But do you? The fact is, you only truly know the number of real boyfriends - the men whose existence is public knowledge. You do not know (and will never know) how many guys she fucked while away on vacation, study abroad, or work trips. You will never know how many times she snuck out for a ONS with a hot Tinder date, away from the prying eyes of her roommates and friends. Those incidents are flushed down Orwell's memory hole, forever erased.

Obsession with n-count among RP guys highlights a recurring problem in the community - the fallacy of using RP truths to obtain Blue Pill ideals. Nowhere is this more evident than in the search for the elusive Quality Woman™, a mythical creature free of hypergamistic tendencies.

In reality, the search for the Quality Woman™ represents a guy's unconscious longing to return to a Blue Pill state...a fantasy world where he can insulate himself from competition anxiety in the sexual marketplace, ensconced in the safety and security that his loyal, low n-count woman affords him.

The real solution, as we constantly advocate, is to watch what a woman does and not what she says. Blind faith in her supposed n-count is no substitute for observant vetting of actions. A man who has fully internalized TRP will have the savvy to discern which women genuinely desire and want him above other men - regardless of events that took place in an unknowable past.

And even then, risk and uncertainty can never be eliminated entirely...only managed and minimized.


In response for requests for sources, here are two citations. There is a fairly large body of literature to support the arguments that I make here, so anyone who wants to investigate further can easily do so:

lie detector study: Fisher & Alexander, 2003, Journal of Sex Research

high partner count/infidelity: National Survey of Family Growth

[–]carrills 161 points162 points  (24 children)

My ex-wife lied about her n-count. She could tell a high n-count was something I would not approve of allowing into an ltr, so she molded herself into an almost virginal n count of 1. Her family, social group, only knew of that one guy. It wasn't until much later than I found out her n count was much higher, in her mind only that one guy "counted," the others were, "mistakes." You can imagine the shock of finding out years later that your girl was fucking a 50 year old married man at the age of 17 among other things.

In the end I will never know her true n count.

[–]420KUSHBUSH 41 points42 points  (1 child)

I would ask what else she did, however, ignorance is bliss

[–]615bachelor 73 points74 points  (8 children)

I had a girl tell me her n count was 4 but later told me it was 8. Then later up to 10. You sill never know her true number . Whatever she says you will have to at least double it. All women lie when asked this question so it’s really no point in asking

[–][deleted] 49 points50 points  (1 child)

J cole said it best. "She said she only fucked like four-five niggas, so you know you gotta multiply by 3"

[–]Cdsmasher 47 points48 points  (1 child)

Lol, I had one tell me it was "only 3", even though I never asked it. She just wanted to manipulate me into thinking she was LTR material. She was easily a 9 (I know, I know... I also think that most who state that are probably barely over 6. Let me just say she was a slim blonde Russian who constantly turned heads), so I did not really believe it. Anyway, at some point the talk about some "flings" opened up, so I asked her "I thought you just had 3?". She then replied, "those were the relationships, I had around 5 more that were just casual... * I think *"

Hamster hoes.

[–]615bachelor 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Yeah all women lie about this. We will never know the true number . Women lie to trick you into a LTR because they know if they said the true number we would be disgusted and just leave them as a plate . So she has to lie to manipulate you into thinking that she is a “good girl”. Every woman know deep down that men would fuck a hoe but we would never make them our main girl. It’s so easy for a women to get sex. I had to put in hard work to my partner count but Jenny from chemistry will have a body count of 10 guys in just one semester without even trying.

[–]1-Fidelio- 3 points4 points  (0 children)

This is no accident; it wasn't 4 then 10 then 8, after all. Each was testing the water.

[–]blaine_freelance 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Who are all these guys getting laid that aren't me, what the fuck?

[–]CashedSX 1 point2 points  (1 child)

My buddies girlfriend told him her ncount was over 40 LOL

[–]Fulltilt_Ronny 1 point2 points  (0 children)

does one still have to double that number? or is this girl just honest?

i´d say, if a girl is that open about a number like that, its probably true because she obviously doesnt give a shit.

[–]freew33zy 201 points202 points  (25 children)

Just make sure your girl puts out for you ASAP. If she isn't a virgin, we already know she did it for Chad. If she didn't do it for you, you're not her Chad.

[–]Brickles09 112 points113 points  (10 children)

Great advice, because when women are into you they basically beg for sex.

[–]freew33zy 148 points149 points  (9 children)

You do not know how right you are. Quick story: I once stayed in for a Friday night instead of partying because I had a lot of homework to do. A plate hit me up, and I declined because I was busy. Long story short after some pleading on her part I agreed to let her come over if she didn't bother me while I finished working.

Like I said, I had a lot of homework. She waited in the corner of my room, silent, for 3 hours while I finished... then we fucked. To be honest I'm grateful to that girl because I was not a Chad when it happened, so being her Chad opened my eyes to what life as Chad is like. Make sure your girl thinks you're Chad--you really don't want anything else.

[–]good_guy_submitter 45 points46 points  (7 children)

I was with a girl whose count was 0. I was 18 and she was 16.

It only took me 3 days to go from completely innocent to anal pounding. At the time I was just doing what came naturally and didn't even think of it.

All women are the same for the right man.

[–]Xzow 55 points56 points  (6 children)

some have a lot more 'right men' than others.

[–]good_guy_submitter 20 points21 points  (5 children)

It's good for attractive men that want easy sex without any responsibility tied to it.

Bad for western civilization as a whole...

[–]excaliboor 3 points4 points  (4 children)

Bad for western civilization as a whole...

I don't think so. It's just a societal shit test: the feminine is doing it's selecting. Same as it naturally always does... nothing new under the sun.

[–]good_guy_submitter 15 points16 points  (3 children)

Sort of. The female imperative will destroy western civilization. The same civilization that provides for every every material need beyond her ancestor's wildest dreams.

The problem is when women get too comfortable and all their material needs are met, their vagina tingles become the only thing that drive them. This turns them into a collective group that keeps shit-testing and never stops. The more affluent the woman is, the worse this is likely to be. All feminists are typically upper middle class white women, recently college educated asians have joined the ranks.

When a woman has all her material needs met, she has no natural force in life holding back her hypergamey that is constantly in a search for Chad. The problem is, the security of the whole civilization wasn't created by Chad. It was created by the provider-class of men, whom are very very very valuable to women when times are not prosperous.

[–]CashedSX 5 points6 points  (0 children)

During the Bosnian war it was common for women to trade sex for 1 can of food. Without modern society catering to them they have nothing to offer but sex.

[–]Atheist_Utopia 1 point2 points  (1 child)

No, at the time they weren't just providers, they were alpha-bucks. Modern civilization made the split possible between AF and BB. In ancient times, the only ones with tons of resources was chad himself.

[–]good_guy_submitter 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Bullshit. Thomas Jefferson was not a Chad. George Washington was a scared and lying bitch for the first half of his life.

Founding Kings and clan leaders were chads sure. Women didnt fight back when Genghis Khan himself personally bedded them. But the people that inherited thrones were more often than not, little bitches.

[–]Truedemocracy4 1 point2 points  (0 children)

A way to know this is easily how they view sex. The second a woman turns it into transactional or as a "reward" then begin finding a backup plan. For the right guy she will literally fuck him in a church parking lot. For the wrong guy she will do starfish sex once a month

[–]erosmiseo 17 points18 points  (3 children)

My girl told me she was a virgin when we originally met, didn’t believe her, told her Idc how many people you been with, she insisted, told her girls love to lie bout that and I didn’t want to start a friendship with somebody based off lies about something I didn’t care about ..

She ended up being a actual virgin.

She said everybody she told she was a virgin after a couple months of talking gave up and ghosted her.

[–]chickentikkamasala1 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Story of every virgin’s life

[–]p3n1x 9 points10 points  (1 child)

If you can't tell a virgin when you meet one, then you need more experience or you were one yourself.

didn’t believe her, told her Idc how many people you been with

Why even waste your time with this bitchy attitude? You passed on pussy over this?

I didn’t want to start a friendship ...bout something I didn’t care about ..

What? Obviously, you gave big shits about it.

[–][deleted]  (1 child)


    [–]a_crapybara 7 points8 points  (0 children)

    What is this adding to the conversation?

    [–]BowlOfCandy 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    I respectfully disagree, you're framing it through a relative scale.

    The n-count is an objective indicator of the pair bonding potential of a woman - it's a snapshot of accumulated behavior. A woman sleeping with you does not make you a Chad, you simply did the right monkey dance to make her feel that you were. If she fucks you ASAP it means she puts out easily - and so sex is probably the only thing she should get.

    [–]TheYekke 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Good point. It’s much easier to filter when the Chads set the rules of mating. Tits or GTFO works miracles with the about-to-hit-the-wall Carol that has to be disavowed off making rules.

    [–]quansau1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    That is an excellent point

    [–]p3n1x 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    This is some weak ego talking. If your frame is solid you will always steer the ship into your own waters and have full control.

    Just because you don't start as chad doesn't mean you can't grow into the king.

    [–]pablosito 21 points22 points  (1 child)

    So I’ve had a talk about this awhile back wth a female friend of mine who is a bit of a hoe and us admitted to lying to men about her n count and even seeing them exclusively. Anyway she (in the same convo) complained that she couldn’t get men to commit. And I told her, “look you girls get creepdar. That thing that ticks in your head at some point when you’re with a guy to get away that’s YOUR built in system. Us guys? We have hoedar. It’s a thing that goes off in our head that tells us this chick isn’t worth the squeeze so even if you think your lies are fool proof there’s still gonna be that little tick for us. Solution? Stop being s hoe.”

    [–]oooKenshiooo 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    female friend of mine who is a bit of a hoe and us admitted to lying to men about her n count and even seeing them exclusively. Anyway she (in the same convo) complained that she couldn’t get men to commit. And I told her, “look you girls get creepdar. That thing that ticks in your head at some point when you’re with a guy to get away that’s YOUR built in system. Us guys? We have hoedar. It’s a thing that goes off in our head that tells us this chick isn’t worth the squeeze so even if you think your lies are fool proof there’s still gonna be that little tick for us. Solution? Stop being s hoe.”

    Good point. Will use that in the future.

    [–]jcrpta 58 points59 points  (10 children)

    Don't sit exclusively on RP-type subreddits.

    Look elsewhere, and you see trickle truths appearing. Girls admitting to being on Tinder for a couple of years, having 15 dates off it and 10 of them ending in sex.

    Hell, my first LTR (we were in our late teens) she admitted to losing her virginity at about 14 - though had never had "full sex".

    "Full sex", in her mind, meant "sex in which at least one of them has an orgasm".

    Six months later, none of those previous encounters counted and she'd "lost her virginity to me".

    That was my first indication that - as far as women are concerned - "sexual partners" is a fluid concept. It changes with whatever seems right at the time.

    (And FWIW, her claim of never having had full sex basically means she'd had a whole bunch of 15-17 year old cocks inside her and none of them came.

    Bull. Fucking. Shit.)

    [–]spegulo 3 points4 points  (5 children)

    When n-count is discussed, I'm surprised that nobody ever brings up the published research on the subject.

    Generally, surveys find an average of 14 lifetime partners for men, and 7 lifetime partners for women.

    Of course, given that there are as many men as women, the averages should match. It is generally assumed that men are exaggerating, women are downplaying their count, or a bit of both. If a woman decides to exclude encounters during which there's no orgasm, then I'm sure that on the flip-side some men include encounters during which nothing actually happened cause they didn't have a condom, "but it could've happened".

    So as far as I'm concerned, the true average is probably 10, men say 14, women say 7... I don't think it supports the idea that the typical women is drastically downplaying her number of partners.

    FWIW, 99th percentile n-count according to these surveys is 110 for men and 50 for women. Even though there's few of these folks, inevitably they're wildly overrepresented among your past partners... same reason as why most of your fb friends have more friends then you. And of course I wouldn't be surprised if these outliers (both men and women) would lie to their partners about it.


    [–]omega_dawg93 17 points18 points  (0 children)

    lol. maaaan, you can throw that survey in the trash.

    a woman can give a handjob and kiss the tip of the dick and not call it sex... all the way to letting 3 guys fuck her up the ass, and as long as none of them cum inside her, "it didn't count."

    "it didn't count," registers as THEIR truth and more importantly, THEY BELIEVE IT. that's why they can produce tears on command when you say you don't believe that they've only serviced 3 cocks.

    i've got 3 sisters, and if you listen to them, they've had sex with less than 10 guys. that doesn't mean they haven't FUCKED 10 guys, made love to 15 guys, and only had "partial" sex where either he didn't cum, came in her ass, or there was no emotions involved with another 20 guys. then, there's JUST ORAL sex so those didn't count either. oh wait... then, there's all the sex where she was drunk/high so she, " wasn't into it," which means that doesn't count either.

    here's the formula: multiply the number she gives you X 3... then add 7. that will get you close to her true number. women love to fuck and think about sex as much or more than you do.

    [–]punchyson 2 points3 points  (2 children)

    Surveys in general are complete bullshit. Most of the women who are doing all the fucking and sucking are very covert about it. The lie professionally about that part of their life.

    As /u/omega_dawg93 put it, "sex" only counts when it was the right guy and he made her cum. A blowjob behind the dumpster at 3AM for a cute guy she grinded on all night will never make the N-count list.

    [–]omega_dawg93 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    not only will it not make the list, women have the ability to block those events from their memory.

    if they don't talk about it, they don't feel about it... so it never happened. and when they give you a number, bjs are usually not included anyway.

    [–]playingpoodles 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    You can't accurately survey sexual history - I believe both men and women in Western sex surveys UNDERRATE their number of sexual partners. And what about generations? My mother had sex with one man, my father, and possibly another on the sly although that's entirely conjencture, so 1-2. I've been way more of a slut than her, although unintedly so, as has my older sister. I'd say people 20 years younger than me are significantly more promiscuous than we were. You can't survey someone's sexual history properly - asking about their 'friends'' sexual histories will give more accurate responses, but even then it's questionable. Looking at non-lethal STD infection rates might be more useful - especially given MORE CONDOMS are used now, I'm not sure you could even buy them in the 1960s when my mother WASN'T having sex. More condoms should mean less non-lethal STDs like chlamydia, genital-cold-sores, etc - but I think infections have INCREASED.

    Anyway, yes it matters, there's not much we can do to stop OTHER PEOPLE to have sex, and you gotta do the best you can to get a wife if you're a man or a husband if you're a woman, or a same-sex partner if you're a gay man and I'm not even sure if the same rules apply there and frankly not too interested to explore it.

    [–]jcrpta 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    I wouldn’t pay too much attention to any of those surveys.

    Every woman on the planet has a bunch of reasons why it “didn’t count”, and - this bit’s important - in her mind, those reasons are 100% valid, correct and result in a figure that is guaranteed accurate.

    We shall gloss over the fact that depending on who she’s talking to means the number is going to vary massively. Her best friend she’s known since she was a teenager thinks it’s one number, her mum thinks it’s another number and her boyfriend thinks it’s something else.

    Her reality is dictated not by how many penises she has encountered but by how many she feels is appropriate. It’s important to note that in her reality, the number she gives you right now is 100% accurate (after all, how much of a slut do you have to be to not know?!).

    It might be totally different tomorrow and different again next week - not because she spent all night getting nailed but because she’s forgotten the formula she used today or decided to apply it differently. But it’s still right! It came back with a completely different number but it’s still right! And don’t you dare question it!

    [–]Aggressive_Beta 0 points1 point  (3 children)

    "Full sex", in her mind, meant "sex in which at least one of them has an orgasm".

    It's not cheating if he was wearing a condom right??

    [–]jcrpta 0 points1 point  (2 children)

    The argument at the time was that she’d found every dick far too big to finish the job off.

    Personally, I don’t believe that. Knowing what the average teenage boy is like, I think it’s far more likely that she had a good share of 2 pump chumps and had to invent a reason that explained why she barely registered there was a cock inside her before it was all over.

    [–]TRP VanguardWhisper 46 points47 points  (0 children)

    Her N-count is the number of times she's been dumped, bro.

    [–]TyroneTheDriver 51 points52 points  (54 children)

    Consequently, what does TRP recommend for men who will be wanting to have children eventually? Obviously the vast majority of people here don’t value LTRs or marriage, so how do we propagate the race and raise better men if we do neither??

    [–]Psychological_Radish[S] 97 points98 points  (7 children)

    Just accept that a LTR is a calculated risk.

    [–]JustChopItOff 33 points34 points  (4 children)

    What my father told me after he agreed to all the risks to marriage I outlined to him.

    He had marriage on easy mode though living in a Muslim country where the government backs the father in divorce.

    [–]DONT_reply_with_THIS 17 points18 points  (0 children)

    Yet even muslin men get cucked at the risk of death

    [–]p3n1x 8 points9 points  (2 children)

    Muslim country where the government backs the father in divorce.

    Great, so blue pill feminine men get the "dick pass" in Muslim courts? That doesn't really solve anything, it is the other extreme of the same issue.

    [–]randomTATRP 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    True, but still better to be on the side that gets less repercussions. Wouldn't you if it was your case?

    [–]p3n1x 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    Navigate mountains, never complain about their height. Everything cycles. There is no wining/fewer repercussions side in the first place. You are giving up many other great things to control a massive insecurity.

    [–]Looking_4_Stacys_mom 9 points10 points  (0 children)

    I like this attitude towards it. It can all go up in flames and end in divorce and legals, but if you love a woman that much and see a future, you have to take the risk. The reward can outweigh the consequences

    [–]bearsick 12 points13 points  (19 children)

    I'm in an LTR 5+ year and I just tried to maintain frame as much as I can. I do want kids eventually but marriage will always be out of the question. And I frequently make that clear.

    [–]TyroneTheDriver 11 points12 points  (11 children)

    Right, but if you stay with that woman long enough, have children, and cohabitants, be court can fuck you regardless can’t they?

    [–]Senior Endorsed ContributorRian_Stone 8 points9 points  (7 children)

    Yes and no. Part of this is risk tolerance and preparation.

    Half the people here who repeat don't get married couldn't even tell you specific risks why...

    [–]TheYekke 1 point2 points  (6 children)

    Tolerance for risk or blatant disregard? Having to always be at 100% alert isn’t my idea of a LTR.

    Then again, not putting a ring on it does mean the only defense against her bailing is competition anxiety, or community-wide shunning if you somehow can isolate yourself from the current year.

    [–]one_eyed_zoro 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    There is a difference between being on alert and being aware. Basically, dont get complacent. It's not about being on the defense, it's about staying in RP mindset. The only difference between a ONS and a LTR is duration and legal ramifications on separation. Be mindful of the risks and dont kid yourself when red flags appear.

    [–]p3n1x 0 points1 point  (2 children)

    Having to always be at 100% alert isn’t my idea of a LTR.

    Then develop good habits and pay attention to your instincts. A lot of guys around here think that ignoring a chick 100% like she doesn't exist is being some kind of badass. No, tactically it makes you weak and an easier target. (yes, some guys know how to do it as game, but that takes time to learn and they are paying very close attention to other things)

    [–]TheYekke 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    Game to what end? All the free sluts you can bang? Define your outcome

    [–]p3n1x 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    A very well refined DGAF Dread Game. In my experience, it ends up being more work than satisfaction and it will never be sustainable for an LTR.

    IMO if a man is constantly concerned about 'her' bailing and having to be on high 'alert', then that man has some self-security issues to work out before worrying about an LTR. That man isn't fit for a healthy relationship and will end up self defeating/sabotaging the whole thing. Most of AWALT is initiated by the man's behavior.

    [–]bearsick 1 point2 points  (2 children)

    Check your state laws. And talk to an attorney if you want. We don't live together and we never have and we don't wear rings as if we were engaged. Having a kid would be a whole different story. Probably would be better if I adopted.

    [–]excaliboor 3 points4 points  (1 child)

    Probably would be better if I adopted.

    You like raising other men's children?

    [–]bearsick 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Whatever you want to think is fine with me.

    [–]p3n1x 2 points3 points  (6 children)

    Brother, at 5+ years, you are married. It doesn't change just because you didn't go through some pageantry in front of people and a priest. A horse is a horse, you don't need a piece of paper to confirm it.

    And I frequently make that clear.

    To yourself and TRP, she doesn't hear anything.

    [–]omega_dawg93 2 points3 points  (5 children)

    maybe it's marriage to you, but it's NOT going to be marriage for her.

    marriage to her means all of that pageantry PLUS THE RIGHTS to all your shit in-case of divorce or death.

    she wants to show, but she also wants rights to your material possessions.

    [–]p3n1x 0 points1 point  (4 children)

    but it's NOT going to be marriage for her.

    So what? Why are you worried about her like that in the first place? Did you miss my comment about her being dismissive of him "making things clear"?

    The reply was more about his mindset and to be conscious of state laws when it comes to living together for a certain period of time.

    [–]omega_dawg93 1 point2 points  (3 children)

    the point: marriage means $$$ rights for women. calm.the.fuck.down. i give no shits about her... i don't know her. and i don't know you.

    [–]anonlymouse 7 points8 points  (1 child)

    Analyse all the risks, including those specific to your area (local laws, trends in divorce settlements), and look how much of it can be influenced by you. Look at the reports of men who turned their failing marriages around, and apply that from the start.

    [–]Senior Endorsed ContributorRian_Stone 15 points16 points  (3 children)

    Be in a position to command, not demand someone add value to your life.

    What, you thought all that smv shut was just for plates?

    [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

    That first sentence is powerful and should resonate with any man who reads it. The second one I have to ask about though. What is "smv shut"... I know you meant shit, I just don't know what smv is.

    [–]Senior Endorsed ContributorRian_Stone 6 points7 points  (1 child)

    Shit, sexual market value shit

    [–]markinsinz7 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    Dude it's all fucked up anyway. Like by the end of first year uni these girls have at least 10 guys as an n count. You wouldn't know if she was lying or not. It doesn't even matter anymore. Literally assume almost every girl has atlas 20 throughout her life. And travelling/city/all those categories...damn they don't know what life is without sex at all.

    Sex is an extremely normal and basic thing to these girls. Like the food you eat. Chad's dick is normal for them. We on the other hand suffer through a lot of issues. I don't like how there's some sense of justice porn here when they go "she'll hit the wall"

    I promise u every woman will in the end find some guy - beta bitch or even Alpha Chad to marry that's just the game today.

    [–]Endorsed ContributorKeffirLime 14 points15 points  (11 children)

    It’s not your duty to propogate the race and raise better men, unless you’ve set that goal for yourself.

    In that case having kids, and raising them with the mother of that child is entirely possible without a religious driven signed document. My neighbor is going strong with two kids, no marriage.

    By virtue of beeing with her and having a kid with her you are invested. It will come down to how well you manage that investment.

    Which is why they say an LTR is TRP on hard mode.

    [–]p3n1x 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    Don't get lazy, don't fall into unicorn land. Take care of the mother, fuck her properly. Have something on the side.

    Most men who get cheated on are at fault at the home. What woman wants to take care of a Giant Baby along with kids?
    Don't buy the stupid cargo shorts, baseball cap and flip flops with some shitty button down bowling shirt. Don't get fat and fart your way into a dirty divorce.

    Plenty of solid mothers still exist.

    We are in short supply of solid men though.

    [–]showerdudes9 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    This, people complain about lack of decent women out there but theres a MUCH bigger lack of real, good men out there.

    [–]a_crapybara 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    TRP isn't against marriage and LTR, and most of these guys will be in an LTR eventually. The recommended advice is to wait until you're older (30's), and as others have said, it's a calculated risk. TRP isn't even all that concerned with women, tbh. It's mostly about bettering yourself and living your own life how you see fit. Women are just an addition to that, whether it's a plate or an LTR, always maintain frame.

    [–]Thunderbird93 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    I'm surprised nobody's said it but use a surrogate. Its abit expensive but genetically speaking you can even try calculate how the kid will turn out biologically(think height). Surrogacy doesn't get enough credit here on RP bro

    [–]carrills 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Move to another country that still has conservative values. And don't think of bringing her back to the US/UK. You will be staying in that country for the long haul.

    [–]1KyfhoMyoba 46 points47 points  (16 children)

    Beginning to see the wisdom in the phrase

    No hymen, no diamond,

    [–]rigbed 10 points11 points  (2 children)

    Can’t wait to tell it to women’s faces

    [–]1KyfhoMyoba 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Expect to hear her shriek "Paaaatriarrrrrrrrrrrchyyyyyyyy!!!!!!!!!!!!"

    [–]Aggressive_Beta 16 points17 points  (2 children)

    No diamond even if there is a hymen. Come on man.

    [–]p3n1x 1 point2 points  (5 children)

    If you are buying her diamonds, you have learned nothing at TRP.

    [–]1KyfhoMyoba 0 points1 point  (4 children)

    You're not from the west, are you? The diamond is a metaphor for an engagement ring, i.e., do not marry a non-virgin. Probably shouldn't marry at all, see my other response on this thread.

    [–]p3n1x 0 points1 point  (3 children)

    The diamond is a metaphor for an engagement ring

    I understand. Marriage is not good in today's world, marrying a virgin is even worse. I stand by my comment, don't buy any diamonds in the first place for any reason (unless for yourself). She can buy her own ring if that piece of carbon means so much to her fantasy.

    [–]boy_named_su 15 points16 points  (2 children)

    Girls have told me their ncount that was higher than what i would consider reasonable. Whether they were lying doesn't matter if what they say is above your threshold. Some girls are that dumb. Yoy can at least avoid those ones. Get the others real drunk to hear the truth

    [–]TheYekke 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    That is the approach for the average joe, any type of fame or celebrity status is a force multiplier: you seek them out versus they throw themselves at you. Go watch a Friday night HS football game and it will be apparent

    [–]Senior Endorsed ContributorCopperFox3c 64 points65 points  (3 children)

    Using n-count to vet women under normal circumstances is fine. The problem is that in the currrent modern West, the situation is such that a low n-count is no longer an indicator of feminine virtue or quality.

    Why? Because women in this day and age are encouraged to live that "Sex and the City" lifestyle, sex-positive sleep around hookup attitude, with no consequences, socially or otherwise. Yes there are exceptions, like girls who grow up in super religious households, but that is no longer the norm. Once you disconnect consequences from the behavior, then positive or negative behavior ceases to mean anything.

    To put it in simple terms: Since all women are now encouraged to sleep around in the modern West, it no longer is a reliable indicator of female quality.

    [–]Dominimus 10 points11 points  (1 child)

    Do you have stats on this? Last health survey I saw for US indicated young people are ironically having fewer partners than beforeand waiting slightly longer for the “1st time,” but are indeed more sexually adventurous and accepting of others sexuality than previous generations.

    [–]p3n1x 7 points8 points  (0 children)

    health survey I saw for US

    Absolutely useless. How do you prove a male has had sex?

    Sometimes the "eye test" is more powerful than a survey that people lie on.

    Maybe it is my location, but in Tropical U.S., 20 to 29 year old chicks are trying to act like some fantasy man when it comes to their "harem" of dicks. They have their orbiters and they know it. They have their sugar daddies, and they know it. Last, they have that "one" cock they like the most.

    The only health survey that matters is "age" and "venereal diseases"

    [–]1TrenGod37 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    The woman I talk about in my previous posts (they are all hypocrites part 1-2)

    She lost her virginity to her husband (who she’s still with(. Her N count has been one for 27 years.

    And if you read the post you will tell pretty quick she is by no means a quality woman. In fact she is probably at 8 by now... and she’s still with the dude she lost her virginity to

    [–]BoilingBleach 7 points8 points  (0 children)

    I will just say thank god for your existence.

    Lately I was starting to think this forum is full of guys trying to live back in the matrix

    [–]Aggressive_Beta 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    It's not useless at all. If a girl tells you her n count is 30 then you know she's instantly disqualified from being LTR material.

    [–]uwey 7 points8 points  (0 children)

    Look what she does.

    If she is mentally unstable, crazy, nagging, and manipulative you will know. Because they hit like a speed bullet train of light. Your head will tell you gtfo.

    If you want to get fucked and write novel about it for next 40 year that is also presumably also a life choice.

    So do what you love, and let it kills you. Give me a women with nice firm ass forget to get old so I can dog it like this is my very last passionate coitus. Write a novel and call it done deal.

    [–]TheBadGoy 7 points8 points  (4 children)

    Only someone living under a rock would still believe some women aren't having sex... I remember still being shocked when my 13 year old sister told me she was already making out with boys.

    [–]RcktDoctor 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    It's very simple to tell when a woman is lying... Just look for her lips moving.

    Whether lying to gain advantage and influence or lying out of ignorance and pride, it's still lying.

    [–]angeltruck 7 points8 points  (3 children)

    Do you think the emphasis on female sexual history is linked to the element in which you have to be concerned on whether potential offspring are yours or do you think it's mainly a socio-cultural phenomenon?

    [–]robbiss 4 points5 points  (1 child)

    You want to know...trust me...she did it behind your back and trying pass it off as yours

    [–]j_arbuckle2012 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    This is the worst kind of betrayal.

    Get your paternity tests done.

    [–]fuckedupintentions 6 points7 points  (1 child)

    TLDR: Women who tell you there n-count try to convince you with their past instead of making effort in the present. Also the psychological act of knowing low body counts and predicting the same behavior in the future is unscientific

    This is some really underrated advice for men who consider a LTR. N-count tells you nothing about the woman‘s loyalty tendencies. Even if she really and truthfully only was with let’s say two men before you there’s two good reasons to still not completely trust her commitment.

    First of all she clearly only tells you this to appear more trustworthy. She wants to be viewed as a modest and loyal woman. This might have the upside, that she clearly wants to appeal to you. But still she tries to convince you with her past instead her present actions. For me this always looks like she’s too lazy/ uncommitted to prove herself with her actions.

    Secondly and more importantly you have absolutely zero proof, that this behavior will last in the future. I’ve been studying philosophy and part of that studies was a several courses in logic and cognition. Predicting the future from past events is simply false. It’s just unreliable. You can NEVER safely predict the future from what happened in the past that’s purely a scientific rule. Even if you fuck a virgin who seems super committed, you can never know if she won’t fuck Chad the next time she goes partying.

    Stop giving a fuck about body counts. Don’t even ask. And if a potential partner for a LTR tells you hers without you asking, that’s a big warning sign.

    [–]LotBuilder 13 points14 points  (6 children)

    If you are trying to vet women, you have already lost. AWALT... all of them.

    [–]angeltruck 24 points25 points  (5 children)

    Fundamentally, women are alike but there's still ranges of quality.

    [–]LotBuilder 3 points4 points  (3 children)

    True, but they will all go through a slutty phase it it can be before, during or after you. The longer the relationship the less likely you are to benefit from that phase.

    [–]iLLprincipLeS 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    The longer the relationship the less likely you are to benefit from that phase.

    Wrong. The relationship can start when she's an inexperienced doe and as time goes you make her your slutty slave. This is why I said, it's important to have her in her prime, age is what matters the most. Use her until you break her and once she hits the wall focus on a new one.

    [–]LotBuilder 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Why bother? Catch her in her slutty phase, bang till your bored and move on. Unless you want kids and marriage, who cares what she did before you?

    [–]p3n1x 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Absolutely wrong. You either set the bar for her mentally and physically or you don't. Don't have a bloop mentality just because there can always be someone better than you. It is an insecure thing to worry about and a waste of your time.

    [–]omega_dawg93 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    quality is directly proportional to the lawyer representing her in divorce court.

    the bi-polar stripper or "good, church" girl will both RAPE YOU RAW in divorce court.

    if you're defining quality by n-count, that's directly proportional to the friction available in her vagina. don't count on it tho bc vinegar works and alum works even better.

    [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    It only matters if you're looking to commit to someone.

    [–]Endorsed Contributorex_addict_bro 2 points3 points  (6 children)

    Google "my kid looks like my ex".

    If this is true (and it probably is), what is paternity?

    You do a paternity test, OK, some of the genes examined are the same as yours, so according to the science and the law the kid is yours.

    How about those other genes? Science says they come from the mother. How about only 80% comes from the mother and 20% from her ex-boyfriend?

    That would explain, why virgins are so valuable. All those religions coming from the middle east, they were "close to the true and only god", they knew the deal.

    On the other hand... suppose my son is 50% my genes, 25% ex wife genes, 25% her ex boyfriend(s) genes.

    Does that make him worse, does that make me a looser somehow?

    What if he could contract some genetic disease but due to his mother being a filthy cum sucking whore in high school he'll be all-right?

    Women are hard-wired to some behaviours world-wide and this means something. Scarcity is common in nature. Animals have their breeding seasons. Men ejaculate millions of sperm cells every time and there are actually no season-imposed limits on our sexual activities.

    Of course, I know the research about LTRs and n-count, I saw some documentary showing where and how Asa Akira lives today... I can imagine broken women and I guess I've dated a low-n count girls, the difference was obvious, especially in those a bit older than me (a generation older).

    Worrying about what's the bitch doing, who's the bitch dating, how many guys she fucked... thanks, mate. I'd rather NOT get into situations where that would matter for me, never ever. Having kids with woman is not one of such situations for me. There are other ways to measure if a woman is good enough... and there are other ways of living than investing your most valuable resources into a broad.

    [–]Demiurge_Decline 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    my kid looks like my ex

    Very hard pill to swallow but I found it to be true. Thats why its hidden. Children are hybrids of every partner that has invested in the womb:(

    [–]Endorsed Contributorex_addict_bro 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    This may be a blessing in disguise.

    This is why I won’t ever try to control a woman. Let them suck dick as much as they need to.

    What I’m gonna do instead? Focus on my stuff.

    [–]M1lf_Hunter69 0 points1 point  (3 children)

    This is not how genetic inheritance works at all.

    [–]Endorsed Contributorex_addict_bro 0 points1 point  (2 children)

    I’ve been taught how it supposedly works in med school

    Now google “my kid looks like my ex” and find that one paper where they identified male dna in csf from a woman

    [–]M1lf_Hunter69 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    So based off one paper vs. hundreds of years of scientific experimentation and thousands of research papers and studies using alleles and many different model organisms from different evolutionary paths and finding that genetic inheritance is universal in which dna is passed from parents to offspring, you expect me to throw away conventional thought and believe that males who cum inside women will inevitably mix their genes with future unsuspecting men who father children for the aforementioned women. Have I mentioned that sperm can only survive for 5 days maximum in side of a woman? Have I also mentioned that only one sperm can inseminate one ovum at any given time in human being without resulting in defects? Look man, all you need is compelling evidence using methods that can be repeated by others and those same people finding extremely similar results. If your hypothesis is true then ill believe you. Science at the core of it all is really that simple.

    [–]Endorsed Contributorex_addict_bro 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    So based off one paper vs. hundreds of years of scientific experimentation

    It's even worse. I'm basing this on my own personal belief, on that feeling located somewhere in the back of my head.

    Have I mentioned that sperm can only survive for 5 days maximum in side of a woman?

    And up to 72 hrs on a dead body.

    But please note, I didn't wrote "sperm". They found male DNA in the CSF, not sperm cells.

    Have I also mentioned that only one sperm can inseminate one ovum at any given time in human being without resulting in defects?

    I bet you've heard about "recombination of DNA", as they call it.

    Look man, all you need is compelling evidence using methods that can be repeated by others and those same people finding extremely similar results. If your hypothesis is true then ill believe you. Science at the core of it all is really that simple.

    Not exactly.

    People decide basing on emotions, not statistics and facts. Just like I do. Just like you do, you only choose to believe something else than me.

    We would NOT need TRP if science was so simple at it's core.

    There is no science. Science is not self-contained.

    Science is people. Science is scientists.

    If something does not fit narrative, it is shunned.

    For example: flawed research in 70s led to increased carbohydrate consumption. Guy wanted to cure cardiovascular disease, found that "cholesterol is bad", people stop eating lard, cardiovascular disease skyrockets, WHO publishes food pyramid that is essentially soy boys. Probably not going to be ever corrected, because carbs is business and carbs is addiction, which means business.

    Treating type 2 diabetes with insulin should be reserved only for live saving cases, all the other sick should get a boot in their fat arse and a diet. Unfortunately that's not gonna happen, because doctors need to make a living and fat assess like to hear it's going to be all right, as a result they're getting injections of an anabolic hormone to lower blood sugar. Want a low blood sugar? Stop delivering it. Not going to happen, because sugar is carbs and carbs is business. Look for the paper about sugar being a painkiller in children and its effects being removed by naloxone.

    Science is people, people are flawed. Thus science is flawed. "Big" science, popular science, the science that all the scientist crave to be published in is as crooked as today's narrative.

    [–]Valenx_Ackerman 5 points6 points  (3 children)

    I find the opposite situation extremely dangerous. Imagine a women who's been in a relationship from 17 to 23-24yo. She just rode 1 cock. At her age being a HB6 or more she've been tempted by alphas hundreds of times, alphas who she would've liked to fuck but she couldn't. Her friends are having fun "living life without attachments", her head is getting filled with "Sex and the city" and newage propaganda. Would you really trust this girl just because she's been fidel during those years? Because I'd say that she's hardly desiring what she've "lost during her prime years"... I find this topic a double edge standard. Of course you should discard or avoid for LTR those women who had tons of sexual partners, however this is a subjective counter. For a single man n-count being 10 at age 25 can be too much, but for other could be "normal", as for another one he can consider it even "rookie numbers". The point is that this number doesn't really matter unless you consider it too much. And those women who've had few sexual partners are even more dangerous in fidel terms than you can imagine, because unless they're orcs/trolls they can enjoy a wonderful variety of Chad cocks to ride by clicking their fingers.

    [–]Glenbert 24 points25 points  (2 children)

    I can't tell you how common this was for women my age (40s). My own ex-wife was like this through high school and college and after. I was her second BF ever and (supposedly) her 3rd lay. Then after 5 years of marriage (no kids, thank God) she fucks a rando.

    It happens a lot. Those studies are fucking worthless fap tissue. None of it is actual science.

    The biggest thing you should come away from this sub with is outcome independence. Thats it. Today, I'm married to my second (younger) wife. Have 3 kids.

    Could she cheat on me? Could she divorce me? Could she die of ovarian cancer slowly and admit to me that the kids aren't mine? Could she get hit by a bus? OK, I'll deal with it and move on... like a man.

    Deal with shit like a man. Not some statistician faggot.

    [–]Valenx_Ackerman 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    That's it, every woman (and man) is a different case. A low n-count does not guarantee fidelity, and a high n-count does not guarantee promiscuity. Dealing with every single situation as a man, as you said, is by far the best option.

    [–]Glenbert 3 points4 points  (0 children)


    All things being equal, of course, go for the lower n-count girl. But things are NEVER equal.

    This may be terrible advice, but I found that by getting my own n count up a bit, not too crazy, i naturally developed that confidence that most wometn like. Also lifting.

    [–]SnowMonkeyCracker 5 points6 points  (1 child)

    Would a woman who has one serious relationship and one holiday "romance" per year be considered a slut? Probably not.

    Would a woman who doesn't have a sex until she is 18 be considered a slut? Probably not.

    So if a woman begins having two partners per year from the age of 18 her n-count of will exceed her age around 35.

    Therefore the definition of n-count sluthood is very nebulous.

    [–]wobbleelbbow 7 points8 points  (0 children)

    It's not. If she can't keep a relationship going for more than a year, then she's obviously not fit for LTR. N count matters.

    [–]Endorsed ContributorKeffirLime 4 points5 points  (3 children)

    The vetting is not so much based on the n-count expressed by her, but rather on the reports from external sources and other tells that generally point in that direction.

    But to u/CopperFox3c’s point in society increasingly encouraging sexual promiscuity, it’s becoming even more redundant.

    [–]Psychological_Radish[S] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

    Well as I said, external sources (whoever those people are, exactly) are useless if they weren't there.

    As to other tells, I'm not sure what those would be or how they could definitively prove anything. I would agree that a massive n-count is difficult to hide from a guy with a modicum of RP awareness, but that's at the extreme end of the slut spectrum.

    [–]Endorsed ContributorKeffirLime 7 points8 points  (1 child)

    That’s precisely my point, if she’s been a slut it won’t take much for that to come to the fore. On that count don’t pursue

    Otherwise a bit of lee way here or there, it’s going to be up to all the other markers. Assessing behaviours etc.

    Slutty dolls tend to share certain common behaviors I.e needs attention, daddy issues, guy friends, was easy for you to lay, insecure, tattoos etc, paying attention to those.

    [–]p3n1x 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Slutty dolls tend to share certain common behaviors I.e needs attention, daddy issues, guy friends, was easy for you to lay, insecure, tattoos etc, paying attention to those.

    Single women with multiple kids before 30 :p

    Had to be said for the white knights out there.

    [–]digital_dreams 4 points5 points  (2 children)

    Easy solution: don't have relationships, just sex.

    It seems to me that the days of the relationship are long gone, and are never coming back.

    [–]4433r 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Thanks for the advice very true ;)

    [–]Nergaal 2 points3 points  (5 children)

    You are wrong. A woman acknowledging she slept with 100 men is worse LTR material than one who slept with 100 men and downplayed it to 50. At least the latter has the awareness that her escapades are not to brag about. The latter might have better lying skills for something important, but at least she doesn't openly "take pride" in her sluttiness.

    [–]washington_breadstix 7 points8 points  (0 children)

    I'd rather have a slut be honest with me and tell me she's a slut so that I can move on from her as a LTR prospect.

    [–]omega_dawg93 7 points8 points  (0 children)

    she may not take pride in her sluttiness, but she'll almost always say, "i want things out in the open... total honesty in our relationship... so we can grow and move forward with a great, open, non-judgmental union."

    my reply: "ok, let's start with how many dix have you serviced?"

    that's when you'll get the biggest, juiciest fattest, lie you've ever heard... making her initial statement bogus and full of shit. SHE WANTS YOUR HONESTY... not for you to know HER HONESTY... bc "all those dix didn't count."

    give me the girl who gives me her true number. at least you know the game you're getting into upfront with all duplicitous shit out of the way.

    whores vs wives: "whores are more honest... plus they're cheaper in the long run."

    [–]187oddfuture 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Neither of them are LTR material. Wtf.

    [–]Glenbert 0 points1 point  (1 child)


    Most of the spergs here are looking for virgins. LOL.

    [–]Thunderbird93 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Honestly bro lets keep it 100. RP can sometimes slut shame. I lost my virginity to a stripper at 23,serious late bloomer shit. I personally kind of like sluts since I'm not looking to cuff AT ALL

    [–]rushy_polar_bear 1 point2 points  (2 children)

    What's the opinion on a girl owning a sex toy?

    Earlier this year I dated a girl who was a virgin prior to me but she owned a vibrator--one of the magic wands like this--and for some reason, it immediately set a red flag off in my head.

    It was my first time dealing with a virgin, but after 2 months of seeing her she suddenly went off the rocker and started banging tons of dudes

    I'm assuming she was just a slut who hadn't yet lost her virginity?

    [–]Anonymous-O 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    This is true. Some virgins are just sluts who haven't worked up the courage to break out yet.

    [–]MrCarepig 0 points1 point  (2 children)

    What options do we have as men for having a kid in this day and age?

    [–]MadSparty 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    I'm trying to figure it out too, brother. I want 5-10 children and finding a quality girl in my age bracket (mid 20s) is tough because I only come in contact with career chasers and dick riders. Just had to soft next an 18 year old plate I've been with because she pulled the "let's just be friends card". I definitely pushed too much heavy shit at her regarding Red Pill Truths about the world. It's rough for aspiring fathers here.

    [–]MrCarepig 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Yeah i wonder why we arent talking more about this subject, i guess it takes a village to keep a woman loyal.

    [–]WestyWorld 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    I still keep it in mind. Yes, you can be lied to. But if you happen to find out that she does have a high number, it is worth considering.

    Also, I think how quickly she uses sexual expletives / how quickly she sleeps with you probably correlates to chance of future infidelity.

    But all of these things are just data points that you can use to build a complete picture. Each individual point is usually meaningless.

    [–]Psycholephant 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    I find myself thinking about this a lot. And since a lot of our fellow members here have this obsession with n-count, I feel like we haven't fully digested the pill yet.

    [–]robbiss 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Rule of thumb is whatever number she gives...times it by 3, closer to truth...she says 10 (x3)=30 chads got into pants...also pay attention to her skill level during sex (that's an eye opening)...naive, semi-pro, or pro

    [–]imtheoneimmortal 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    What study?
    I'm just curious for source

    [–]ZekeTheOctopus 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    That’s why y’all need to buy Pamela Meyers ‘Liespotting’ and research Paul Ekman’s work on micro expressions.

    Telling when people are lying is relatively easy

    [–]deeselecter 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Like in business past results ain't shit but thats about all you got. Thats why pedos have to go through all that after jail cos its known that those things hardly changes, believe me once they go through that path. They could or would do it again. Women who has been like that psyche to do sex as a recreation or just what they do like food. Wall conditions life situations might pull it back but its always there like an addiction to be triggered.

    Lastly I think its blue pilled to ask a woman ur intimate or about to be intimate with what her count is cos she would lie depending on how she wants to present herself to you. You will make her feel smart or slick . you can ask a girl you chilling with as part of a fun conversation while you feign an honest dude . Keep her guessing what she thinks you know. let the hamster run. If you have the experience and you red pilled you would intuitively know what category she belongs by her speech and actions . I tell u the truth if a men leave emotions and feeling aside no woman has our ability to see through bullshit .Men would not survive on this planet without a superior form of intuition and guile, we only lose it when we catch feelings. Peace

    [–]wobbleelbbow 0 points1 point  (3 children)

    I think OP cares about women's N counts more than most guys care about their own girlfriend's N count. It's useful metrics, no matter a woman lies to you or not. There are certain slut tells, certain traits that shows how "experienced" she is. All people lie. That's not an argument to dismiss N count as useful.

    [–]Psychological_Radish[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

    I think OP cares about women's N counts more than most guys care about their own girlfriend's N count.

    It's not me; it's a large percentage of people on this sub. Red Pillers obsess over a woman's n-count when it comes to LTR issues.

    There are certain slut tells, certain traits that shows how "experienced" she is.

    I keep hearing mention of these supposed slut tells. What are they? Nobody has named them.

    As I replied to another guy, a woman cannot easily conceal a massive n-count. That much I agree with. But the Madonna/whore debate is clearly fallacious because there is wide spectrum, and most girls will cluster toward the reported mean of 7 (although I believe it is higher).

    The idea that a guy can separate a woman with an "average" number of sexual partners (already considered high on this sub) from a woman one standard deviation from the mean in either direction is utter nonsense. There is no evidence for that whatsoever.

    [–]_TheRP 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Great post, particularly the longing to get to a blue pill ideal bit.

    The reality of relationships is that, if you want one, you have to be constantly maintaining you to keep her attention. She has to know you have other options at any moment, and she has to know you are a dominant social force.

    It's a lot of work.

    [–]smaffit 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Thank you for putting it so clearly and succinctly. I've been trying to have this debate on another thread and keep getting told all the ways I'm wrong. LTR is bp as fuck. Why does it matter? Enjoy the time you guys spend together and quit worrying about her number. Also, don't get into a LTR and there's nothing to worry about.

    They keep trying to justify how n count is a good barometer and by me not caring that I'm a wk... Oh contraire, I know women's nature and choose to exploit it instead of change it. Women are sexual, and if you shame them for their count, guess who isn't getting on that list? You, my guy. You. So fuck it, have fun, run game, stay single. Have fun my dudes

    [–]venerablebear 0 points1 point  (2 children)

    Can you please reference the studies you mentioned in your post?

    [–]Psychological_Radish[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    I did try to put in a sources list, but a bot removed my first post for outside links. Not sure of the correct format and I don't really care to spend time chasing something like that.

    Everything that I referenced is easily accessible with a little research. These are not obscure studies.

    [–]venerablebear 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    I appreciate your post and the energy you put into it and it would be a much more convincing post if you cited the research. You can cite easily using the author names, title and the conference or journal it was published in. No links necessary.

    At the risk of seeming ungrateful, I don't want TRP to fall into the same "studies show" trap that many of our opponents fall into. We can be better than that and we should.

    [–]gopnik_conscript 0 points1 point  (3 children)

    Ok what is an n count? I've never heard of this until rently.

    [–]Thunderbird93 0 points1 point  (2 children)

    Notch count, A.K.A how many people one has fucked

    [–]gopnik_conscript 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    Thanks m8, it all makes sense now.

    [–]oooKenshiooo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    n-Count has a different value:

    If she openly communicates about her n-count, without you getting that creepy hunch that she might be lying (you know the one), then she might be a more calculatable risk.

    [–]Deezdtho 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    FDR podcast showed truth on sex. Her kill count is the marker. Also, whether or not she's on the early side of twenty. If not, its Netflix and chill.

    Come @ me during best year's or not at all.

    [–]1-Fidelio- 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    While what you say is not wrong, there is one thing that you're forgetting; just like in court, it's valuable to get a statement about something. It's hard to keep up lies over a long time. Of course a woman will lie about her n-count; to you, to herself. The degree to which any particular woman will lie does differentiate and is worth discovering.

    [–]187oddfuture 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    TLDR: you will never know her true number, and if she’s a power thot, she doesn’t even know either. With all of her hamstering and special exceptions (if I blow him it’s not sex, etc.), she simply loses track. The safe rule is to take her number and multiply it by three, but even that fails. Thots will do anything to secure a high value man, even if only for a night, so grossly lying about her number to appear as a “quality woman” is one of the first things she’ll do. Literally don’t even need to read this post, everything here has been said 100 times before.

    [–]Ananonguy88 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    "The real solution, as we constantly advocate, is to watch what a woman does and not what she says."

    So fucking this, every time, in every situtaion, not only n-count issue.

    When you apply this women suddenly becaome easy and transparent. Like they are selling me bullshit, I don't even let them know I see it as bullshit, just pretend to buy it and wait for their actions to confirm it or disprove it. I've learned to partially turn off my brain on female speech at all, and instead I've became highly observant.

    Does miracles wen applied to screening people.

    [–]1SexdictatorLucifer 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    A man who has fully internalized TRP will have the savvy to discern which women genuinely desire and want him above other men - regardless of events that took place in an unknowable past.

    Perfect. Live in the moment. Pick up and fuck 20 women ONS, 10 of them will show you what genuine desire looks like. Then you know. If you're with a woman after that, keep her genuine desire for you alive. As long as you have that, her past doesn't matter. Her past will affect how hard it is to maintain that desire. When it fades, you already know there are plenty more who will have it within a 4 hour window.

    [–]TRPKid 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Red Flags. Know how to identify them. The more she has, the higher chance of X.

    The less ticklish she is, red flag, the higher chance she's a hoe. The better kisser she is, red flag, the higher chance she's a hoe. And that's only 2.

    TRP vets should have no problem with this at all, and by the time you are considering a LTR, you should be a vet. If you arn't, you already fucked up.

    [–]Spurius85 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    "...a simple statistic (concrete visible fact) that men can use to instantly qualify or disqualify a woman from (possible) commitment."

    It's called a hymen boys. I've only ever seen pictures, but I hear they used to be quite common!

    [–]punchyson 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    I have a somewhat fatalistic view of this.

    In our modern wold in America if you are in your late 20s or older, you are dating whores if they are good looking, went to college and had some fun in their early 20s.

    You can either accept that she has sucked a lot of dick that she doesn't count and work with what you have or let it turn you into a MGTOW.

    Your goal as a TRP man should become the man she wants to fuck urgently. We can't negotiate desire. The upside to the female's ability to be completely fluid about their definition of sex is that if you are her Chad her n-count doesn't really matter. Personally what I care about is a pattern of cheating.

    What these surveys are trying to say is that if a woman has fucked 20 men, she won't be faithful. She won't be faithful to the Beta who ends up with her post-wall. She's had too much good dick. Your job is to be that guy, the one she wants inside her 24/7. Good girls with everything going for them will fuck hardened criminals and make all kinds of excuses for them if the dick is good enough.

    I know this is in the context of LTRs. Get fit, learn game and learn to fuck. We have it pretty good when you think about it.

    [–]playingpoodles 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Okay you Western men even if you think you are red pill have 'INTERNALISED THE AGGRESSOR'S VIEWPOINT'. The dichotomy is virgin/non virgin, and after that the dichotomy is 'had a child by another man/only had a child by me'. Both these dichotomies are very important. With 'virgin/only had a child by me' the ideal obtainable only to a small minority of Western men.

    If she's non-virgin, child by other man, and that's all you can get, I guess you have to go for it, better if she's 30+ only had one child by another man and you are a legitimate opportunity for her to have a lifelong relationship. If she's 20-30 with kids by another man I think you're nuts to take her on. If she's (legally, ie. you're the same age as her and not committing a sex-crime by dating her under 18) 16-20ish had one or more prior sex but no kids, give her a shot, after you get plenty of years with her and a kid she'll probably be invested. But just beware she could fuck you in the future from your perspective without warning.

    A virgin is unnatainable for most men in the West, maybe everywhere. You have a kid with her and don't go unemployed and crazy and there's plenty of chance she'll fuck you over in the future - just much lower than any of the other categories above.

    Good luck.

    [–]moreinhoe 1 point2 points  (7 children)

    Here's another angle for this principle. My highest quality plate at the moment (I don't LTR) has a very high n count (20-30). Now I'm her Chad, and I can tell that she has a genuine desire for me above other men, because I have conducted myself in congruence with TRP principles.

    I cannot confirm if this is true but she says she doesn't wanna be with anyone else at the moment. It's been 7 months and we're as intimate as ever. So using n-count to vet is almost useless, yes.

    Further, her high n count is a bonus in one small way. She's a sex goddess skill level 1000.

    [–]DONT_reply_with_THIS 4 points5 points  (3 children)

    She doesn't need to fuck 30 men to be a sex goddess level 1000. Being in a LTR for 5 years is a lot of sex if they're attracted to each other.

    [–]washington_breadstix 9 points10 points  (2 children)

    Exactly. That's why I don't get the argument saying "You should want an experienced girl! She'll know how to fuck!!"

    Bitch, learning how to fuck takes minutes. A girl being "bad at sex" is just her not wanting to fuck you as far as I'm concerned.

    [–]DownyGall 6 points7 points  (0 children)

    100% of sex is natural and instinctual. You don’t need to learn it. That’s modern bullshit.

    [–]chickentikkamasala1 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    Lmao at least someone understands it’s like the guy is bad at sex himself and has nothing to teach a woman

    [–]iLLprincipLeS 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    I cannot confirm if this is true but she says she doesn't wanna be with anyone else at the moment.

    So using n-count to vet is almost useless, yes.

    My highest quality plate at the moment (I don't LTR) has a very high n count (20-30).

    So why don't you LTR this high n count unicorn if she's so great?

    [–]wobbleelbbow 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Hamstering is strong on this one

    [–]deeselecter 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Hey trp again a woman never has genuine desires .she can fool her hamster she does .the base line is you fulfill some idealized need at the moment. Take heed bro and remember the day you don't she go. Peace

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