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Why do women enjoy or fantasize about "rapey" sex? (self.asktrp)

submitted by hrm0894

Like what's the science/biology behind it?


[–]mrpoopistan 113 points114 points  (10 children)

This is way too many comments without the actual answer being included . . .

The actual answer is: the desire to be desired.

If you look at the most commonly proffered version of the rape fantasy, the one we see in the modern romance novel, the issue boils down to validation.

The two main features of the rape fantasy are both extremely validating:

  1. The man is always a high-status individual.

I remember reading an analysis of romance novels that summarized the male protagonists as having a handful of jobs: doctor, knight, pirate captain, king, rancher, and . . . I shit you not . . . just billionaire. The billionaire, of course, doesn't really need much of an explanation for where his wealth comes from, but I guarantee it's not "no-chin skinny dude who created an app."

There is, I shit you not, even a class of Billionaire Doctor novels . . . which is funny because the only billionaire doctors I'm aware of quit medicine and went into investing . . . but, hey. Taken by the Dude Who Spends 14 Hours a Day Looking at Excel Sheets and Reading Quarterlies During the Half Hour a Day He Doesn't Commit to Work, Workouts, Sleep or Meals is a long fuckin title, amirite?

Even beastiality porn fixates on apex predators. There's Taken by the T-Rex, but ain't no bitch gettin took by the lowly Ankylosaurus.

2) Said man simply cannot stop himself from needing to fuck her, and only her.

In other words, not only is he better than she can hope for, in terms of status, but against all expectations he not only wants to fuck her, but he absolutely has to fuck her, consequences be damned.

The great fear all women have about any high-status man is that he'll leave her. And the persistent conviction -- even in the face of all actual evidence -- is that if you want him to be loyal then he has to have a ravenous sexual desire for you. He has to desire you so badly that he'll rape you. Which is, of course, totally okay because that boy can get.

And of course, he fucks like he means it. No blow and go for him. He didn't just come to fuck her without asking -- he came to work. Which is, if you think about, extremely contradictory given that most sexually eager men blow their loads fast, but . . . hey . . . fantasy, right?

In a stupidly roundabout way, it's not about rape. It's about the desire to be madly desired by a premium-grade status symbol.

[–]punchyson 24 points25 points  (3 children)

This is exactly correct.

Women aren't fantasizing about being raped by ugly fat betas and losers. It is always a high value male that they really want to fuck badly also that "takes them" because he loses control over his desire for her.

Being "raped" by extremely handsome bad boys like bikers and gang bangers is another popular version of the type of men in these fantasies.

Similarly the Gang Bang fantasies would all look like ripped strippers with big dongs and probably be rich and drive nice cars. Chicks....

[–]never_as_big_as_pump 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Its always like that.

You can say all the weird shit, and if you’re good looking & high smv, it’ll be a compliment for her.

If fat ugly beta weirdo says exactly the same to her, he’d be called psycho/weirdo/predator.

Its not about WORDS. Its about WHO SAYS IT.

You are so right!

[–]Amiksthrowaway -1 points0 points  (1 child)

Wait you mean if I don’t have a big dong I’m shit outta luck ?

Fawwk... PE it is

[–]StandardFiend 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You're missing the point here.

[–]acuraaruca 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It’s a mix of both this and the top comment. Desire is definitely part of it but it’s more than that. Dominance women crave. Women are already desired, when they are desired by high status men. This excites them. Add domination sex in the mix you have the perfect storm

[–]cuteman 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You know what? That's actually the core reason for dick pics but in reverse.

[–]IronboundAbyss 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I admire a dude who's handle is, "Mr. Poopinstan" -thank you

[–]crunchyteabiscuts 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Fifty Shades of Grey in a nut shell. The sexual fantasies of women are almost narcissistic. It's about them (not their partner). About them being desired, feeling desired, feeling sexy. They get off on that. It's not like men where we think of the other person and how they turn us on. For women it's inward.

[–]Zahlix 0 points1 point  (1 child)

We condemn women for these unrealistic fantasies of male professions but somehow there is an unsurprising amount of porn of lowlife job men fucking high class women...

  • pizza delivery boy
  • plumber
  • taxi driver
  • pool boy
  • barkeeper

it is basically just the reverse fantasy of what they have going on.

[–]mrpoopistan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I find condemnation to be very not TRP, so I'd quibble with that detail.

I happen to find the rape fantasy to be fascinating, particularly because it's not a rape fantasy in the strictest sense. It's a desire fantasy that happens to be encased in what outwardly looks like a rape fantasy.

[–]Mewster1818 183 points184 points  (33 children)

I think the fantasy provides the dichotomy of dominance vs submission that most women crave. Most women prefer to be submissive, and want a man who will "take charge"...

Unfortunately, men can no longer usually fulfill that role without worrying about the consequences... so basically just another example of how feminism has made everyone less satisfied.

[–]prankster999 20 points21 points  (5 children)

This guy gets it.

Henry Cavill would be so proud of you...

[–]Zanford 7 points8 points  (4 children)

I'm missing the Henry Cavill reference/link here but curious

[–]Revenant221 13 points14 points  (3 children)

Cavill was asked about dating and MeToo and gave a response that sent sensitive people into a panic.

Essentially he said he’s old fashioned and likes to woo a woman but in today’s culture a flirty remark could be will be seen as sexual harassment so he’s decided not to date at the moment.

The crazies took this as him basically admitting that he’d like to rape women but can’t because of MeToo.

[–]Mewster1818 6 points7 points  (1 child)

What... sometimes I honestly feel mentally inept that I can't keep up with the gymnastics going on...

[–]Revenant221 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That’s a good thing, it means you’re sane

[–]Zanford 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Wow lol. They really tipped their hand here and revealed their true nature.

Cavill (a top-tier alpha by every measure - fame, wealth, looks, physique, good character, plays fucking Superman) just said "Okay, feminists, I'll do what you said you want: I'll be extremely reserved in my flirtations, so as not to risk making anyone feel 'assaulted' or getting myself in trouble. (And he didn't have to add 'Even though I am Superman-level alpha and very few girls would be offended by my advances'.)"

As any TRP regular knows, what happens when the guy says 'Okay I'l be a super nice guy like you said you want'..."

...they immediately spazzed out and flew into a rage.

Cavill is basically doing a subtle A&A here, deliberately 'failing' a shit test by replying to the demands with "how high shall I jump ma'am" but in much politer and more matter of fact terms that point out the only logical endgame of this moral panic (sterilized flirtation). Coming from Cavill, this also acts as self-disqualification game: he knows he's a top tier alpha, so by saying "very well, I will take away any chance of us hooking up' they spaz out at the thought of losing the chance for some Superdick (or force them to make all the moves, which they hate to do).

The real reason the Puritans got upset at Cavill was not that they genuinely believe he's a wannabe rapist. Even they don't believe that. They're upset b/c they know his comments will redpill other people and help them realize just how uncompromising and insatiabe the demands are. His agree & amplify reveals just how amplified they want the moral panic to be. It spoils their 'boil the frog' strategy.

[–][deleted]  (26 children)

[removed]

    [–]Mewster1818 24 points25 points  (22 children)

    It doesn't need to be actual rape or rape play. Just none of the "is this okay?" or "Can I do x?" stuff... firstly who in their right mind wants to spend their time having sex asking if it's okay the whole time? Secondly, I honestly don't think I could force myself to go out with someone like that...

    The whole "consent for everything" is also moronic because what, are you going to record having sex so that it's not just he said/she said later anyways? (Which wouldn't be a bad idea except that I guarantee her ovaries will shrivel up from that level of beta behavior.)

    It's a no-win situation. She will want you to shut-up and take charge, he will want to keep himself safe from a potential crazy woman claiming he assaulted her...

    [–]OPTIMUSL1ME 6 points7 points  (0 children)

    Fucking this Sex is no longer a present "doing" action, rather every action has to be prepared for and agreed upon else you run the risk of it being called rape

    [–]henry589 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    I call it consensual nonconsensual.

    [–]Mewster1818 6 points7 points  (0 children)

    A feminist's guide to killing the sex drive in just 2 easy steps!

    1. Ask permission for existing.

    2. Ask again every 30 sec.

    [–]PostModernCommie -13 points-12 points  (15 children)

    u/Mewster1818 is worried about the consequences of his creepy rape fantasy. I blame feminism!

    [–][deleted]  (14 children)

    [removed]

      [–]Revenant221 2 points3 points  (6 children)

      Guys a white knight troll, no point in responding to him

      [–]Mewster1818 2 points3 points  (5 children)

      Well I was being entertained tbh. xD

      [–]Revenant221 1 point2 points  (4 children)

      I mean it was entertaining to watch too haha would have loved to see his mind explode when you said you were a married woman

      [–]Mewster1818 2 points3 points  (3 children)

      I know right? Obviously he was not prepared for the "internalized misogyny" lol.

      It's not like I would ever condone rape or sexual assault, but seriously no woman wants to sleep with someone timid and scared. While I think the rape fantasy will probably always be a favorite for women, I have wondered for a while if it is so incredibly popular because of feminism. Dating is a nightmare for everyone nowadays because men are too often wrongly punished for dominant traits, whereas women are continually told that being in charge will make them happier(except it doesn't).

      [–]Revenant221 1 point2 points  (2 children)

      That’s the ‘best’ part about white knights like him, that he thinks your wrong because you don’t believe in his ideology. I mean, what would a woman who had a man know about what women want in a partner right? This guy obviously knows more than you!

      Completely agree about the fact that women don’t want to sleep with a guy that’s scared to do anything. I’ve seen (both as a third party and as a guy before finding TRP) a ton of instances of a girl just losing interest moment to moment because the guy won’t take charge. I honestly don’t know any happy couple that has the woman leading all the time. But yet these crazies still feel the need to ignore facts.

      And yeah, it should go without saying but I doubt anyone like you, me or people in this sub ever condone rape or sexual assault. It’s just a straw man argument the crazies use because they want to believe they’re right.

      [–]CrazyHorseInvincible[M] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      Don't announce you have a vagina unless you brought enough for everyone.

      Wait, no... just.. don't.

      [–]Mewster1818 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Yes, I'm sorry. I just really was having to much fun with the troll. My bad.

      [–][deleted]  (4 children)

      [removed]

        [–]Mewster1818 8 points9 points  (3 children)

        No thank you, I don't like wasting money. But thanks for your concern!

        [–][deleted]  (2 children)

        [removed]

          [–]Mewster1818 3 points4 points  (0 children)

          Bless your heart.

          [–]CrazyHorseInvincible[M] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          No proselytizing for weird cults on my watch.

          [–]Zanford 4 points5 points  (2 children)

          If you can't tell the difference between BDSM/roleplay and sexual assault, you need serious help

          [–]bigkids 0 points1 point  (1 child)

          Safe words?

          [–]Zanford 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          That's one of the differences, but far from the only one, yes

          [–]assholeofthesky 26 points27 points  (0 children)

          Force, being dominated.

          It's masculine energy, it would make sense.

          Especially in a world where sexuality is basically castrated, this kind of fantasy splurges out

          [–]1Terminal-Psychosis 39 points40 points  (0 children)

          All through the ages.. millions of years of evolution, women were the spoils of war.

          The ones that adapted, lived through the hostile takeover, lived.

          They passed on their successful qualities to future generations.

          The ones that fought back were raped, then murdered. No offspring to pass those genes on to.

          Women are programmed in their DNA to accept the strongest... this is the basis of hypergamy.

          btw, go read the sidebar.

          [–]StarbornProject 14 points15 points  (7 children)

          A pretty basic yet not very deep explanation is in the comments, the actual biology behind it is a little more dark and difficult to understand, just tell me if you are interested in a detailed response, but if you are asking a tl,dr:

          • It's a mixture of biology shaping psychology, and psichology shaping biology. Because most of mating never took female's desires into account, biology adapted to it (that's why they orgasm during a rape) as protection towards their own life, "better be raped than dead". As a result, they wanted to avoid that situation because being raped is stressful, so they wanted to be with the most dangerous yet less rapey rapist, making them choose, ideally with a pacific yet strong male, someone to protect her but not force her too much. You can see how this loops through evolution, because strong man happen to be high in testosterone, meaning that they also get rapey, so more often than not, they ended having a rapist as a partner, in order to avoid rape... shaping their biology and their psychology

          If you want more details, specially why they fantasize about other women too, just ask

          EDIT - I'm not english, pardon mistakes

          [–]clausternn 11 points12 points  (4 children)

          If you want more details, specially why they fantasize about other women too, just ask

          I'll take one, please.

          Shaken, not stirred.

          [–]StarbornProject 15 points16 points  (3 children)

          There you have it then, remember that I a not english, and that I might make some mistakes.

          Alright, let's start with the fundamentals, what makes male and female sexually interested. So, imagine you are a psychologist trying to figure out that question, what do you do? An experiment. During experiments, usually you make four things:

          • You make a "hypothesis", that is, what you believe as true, based on previous knowledge. With this experiment, you are trying to make all you can to prove this hypothesis is wrong so, if you can't, then it's right; if you can, then obviously something is going on that you didn't thought of

          • You make a "control", that is, you have a part of the sample do nothing at all to compare them with the rest, as a way to have a "cero value" to compare

          • You make a "study", that is, you do do something to part of the sample, then you measure how much it changes it, in their characteristics

          • You gather, analyze and compare all this data, and these three steps have to be done without error, or else, you could get wrong conclusions from the data

          Alright, let's do an experiment then. We want to know what arouses males and females, sexually speaking. We separate groups by gender, then we present them with positive stimuli (aka porn), expecting a positive response; a control stimuli (a video of a bed, a table, or a t-shirt) expecting no sexual response at all; and a negative stimuli (someone being violent with another person, a crying baby or a very nasty sound), then we will present a series of short videos mixing them, and measuring the responses they do. Remember, we separated males and females. Our hypothesis is that males arouse more than females and that males and females are aroused by the same stimuli. Alright, let's get genuinely confused as they got, the results showed that...

          It was true that males were more aroused than females, specially when there was no sound, nowadays we know that males are more visual in their sexual understanding; while women are more psychological so pornographic videos are better for men, while pornographic stories are better for women, but these differences are subtle enough to make them enjoy both.

          What wasn't expected however, was the sudden spike of interest found only in females. Suddenly, they found that females were sexually aroused when shown violence, specially directed towards other women. They made more experiments trying to see what was going on there, I'll sum up:

          • They found that females were much more attracted towards same sex sexual activities, compared to man. I'm talking about heterosexual individuals

          • They found that males were absolutely not interested in violence, sexually speaking, unless they showed no difference during other kinds of negative stimuli (a baby crying), meaning that the only males that didn't get a response from violence, were in fact psychopaths, this applied to rapists too in clinical experiments, being only the extremely psychopathic or sociopathic rapists the ones interested in the use of force

          • They found that females were slightly sexually aroused by violence towards males, very aroused by violence towards other females, and negatively aroused by violence towards kids or infants

          • They found some characteristics of that arousal, they were more aroused when:

            • They shared skin color with the female being hitten (highest correlation)
            • The number of females grew, in other words, the more females suffering, the better for their arousal
            • The number of males grew, in other words, the more males being violent, the better for their arousal
            • The males showed attractive features, such as athletic body types or squared jaws (predictors of testosterone levels, correlation was the lowest)
          • Finally, they found that they were verbally against what their were watching, most of the times describing it as unpleasant and disgusting, but biological data showed the exact opposite, very clear signs of arousal

          With all this evidence, they tried to make a theory explaining such results. It took them two years or three, and they used a lot of prehistoric knowledge, in order to know the evolutionary trends leading to such behaviour. Then they presented their hypothesis:

          The evidence shown by females hints something already known, most reproduction done in those years were forceful, some times dangerous, some times massified. What they believe is, that women evolved to get aroused watching other women be raped in front of them, so when it's their turn, they would already be aroused, and damage was minimized, in order to make them as healthy as possible. Loop this biologically, and it becomes a psychological aspect: They don't enjoy being raped, they don't want to be raped, they actively avoid being raped, but when they are raped, they get aroused by it, and while watching other women suffer, they get aroused too to avoid damage, in case the rapist wants to rape her too

          As a final note, I'll say that the experiments measured two different sets of data, biological and psychological. Biological sexual arousal is when your body is sexually aroused, it can be measured according to the biological signs the organism shows (for example, a male is biologically aroused when he has his penis erect; a female is biologically aroused when she has her clitoris erect, among many other signs in males and females). Psychological sexual arousal is when you report a positive recognition of those biological signals, and associate them with a positive response, so you actively want it to continue; it has little to do with biological response, but can modulate it, and more importantly, give it meaning so further sexual stimuli is categorized and a response is more clearly shown (this is called learning), for example, you can have your penis erect while watching sexual intercourse, and depending on other factors, mostly psychological, you'll be more or less aroused by it, but you will still be aroused no matter what; it can happen that the intercourse is so bad, that you report no satisfaction at all, but there was indeed biological function, meaning that psychological arousal and biological arousal are two different things

          Please, don't hesitate to ask questions, I really hope it was all clear. I'll cite the scientific articles where I discovered these facts if I find them, but it was a while ago, and I won't be doing a deep search because it's trivial and, in fact, left as an exercice for the reader

          [–]clausternn 3 points4 points  (1 child)

          They found that females were slightly sexually aroused by violence towards males, very aroused by violence towards other females, and negatively aroused by violence towards kids or infants

          So forget netflix and chill, from now on it's all about slasher movie and chill.

          [–]clausternn 4 points5 points  (0 children)

          Please, don't hesitate to ask questions, I really hope it was all clear.

          Yes it was indeed very clear. Thank you for the detailed response.

          [–][deleted]  (1 child)

          [deleted]

            [–]StarbornProject 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            please, read my response, also feel free to ask any doubt you had!

            [–]Kingsc55 39 points40 points  (5 children)

            Because from an evolutionary standpoint, women are the daughters of other women who've been taken against their will most of the time. You can't wipe off DNA; it's biology.

            [–][deleted]  (1 child)

            [deleted]

              [–]1Terminal-Psychosis 9 points10 points  (0 children)

              AKA hamster.

              [–]MRPFuckMe1 2 points3 points  (1 child)

              That’s not really how evolution works.

              [–]Kingsc55 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              Evolutionary psychology. Read about it.

              [–]graveless_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              this is the answer

              [–]chomponthebit 3 points4 points  (0 children)

              Evolutionary psychology is the answer.

              One of the most traumatic aspects of post-rape therapy is working out why she had an orgasm during the rape and never had one with her husband - or, like 25% of all women, never before. Their body responds even though their mind and soul are repulsed. In essence, they’re betrayed twice.

              Why do some like being spanked and choked when all I want is to put my dick in every hole? Only Allah knows

              [–]stylesm11 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              Tread carefully, if you fulfill someone rape fantasy it can be throw out of context dare something goes wrong & you have no after sex texts

              [–]Zanford 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              If a high status man not only desires her, but loses control of himself like an animal (and risks everything to physically claim her) it proves how desirable she is. And the act may demonstrate his physical capabilities.

              I have a theory that women are vocal during sex because it screens for high status and fit men: other tribespeople would hear (primitive environment = very low privacy) and it increases the potential of another male, who's a better fighter or higher status, throwing the first guy off. It's basically "let you and him fight". And men would co-evolve to KNOW about women moaning, so the guy who goes for it anyway is signalling that he's confident he has the tribe status and/or physical prowess to not be interrupted by another male.

              Also, Darwinian evolution is amoral. Her handbrain wants to have a lot of offspring...if she produces sons who in, adulthood, become rapists as well... and there are shitloads of stories of women who cover for male lovers or relatives who are rapists.

              I heard a theory that much of metoo stuff is driven by a status whoring arms race: women used to brag about hooking up with celebrities. now they have to take it one step further by saying a celebrity was willing to throw caution and career to the wind to flat out rape her.

              Incidentally, I believe a lot of the metoo stories (eps the Weinstein and Cosby ones) but sure as shit not all of them. It's a clusterfuck with a lot of bad actors (pun intended) on both sides. It's nice to see some Hollywood snakes get smoked out, but the risk of 'innocent until proven guilty' being undermined is a civilization level threat. And even in contexts outside the courtroom, where the burden of proof is not necessarily 'innocent until proven guilty', it still needs to be higher than 'guilty until proven innocent'.

              [–]TopofToronto 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              /u/mrpoopistan stated the most wide ranging one that there is and if you pick up almost any woman's "romantic novel" and you will read that it is some socially powerful man willing to risk everything he has because he finds her so desirable that he has to take her sexually NOW!!

              It hinges more on being overwhelmingly desired by a high ranking male and the sex that follows.

              Second part is absolution, that she did not have to make any choices, she is absolved of being morally or socially wrong / guilty. She did not have to flirt or act as gate keeper to her pussy. Did not have to wonder about a relationship etc. Also plays in to women's prostitution fantasy.

              So a pared down short story fantasy of the one above, a one night stand with out having to make the moral choice of having a one night stand.

              Usually less complicated of the who and the details about him and not really high ranking ( other than good looking guy) and more the sex and being desired.

              One less so is more of a kink is being sexually denigrated, turned in to a slave told how horrible and a whore she is. That is a minority but still exist. and more about being denigrated than raped

              [–]Buchloe 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              Becaus muh enteranalized oppression

              [–]omega_dawg93 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              it's about their ego. the ultimate ego stroke for them is that the (high value) man can't control himself.

              yes... she's that hot. she says it to herself in the mirror after every shower and after she's dressed up.

              [–]As-You-Were 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              To feel “smoll”

              [–]Lambdal7 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              Because if she gets taped by her partern, it means that there is utmost trust and the partnerships is very healthy.

              It’s basically the epitome of the relationshio if her partner just overpowers her and gives it to her raw without any need for comfort or cuddliness, because the relationship itself has already established that trust.

              [–]wawakaka 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              narcissism. her ego swells because she is so desirable she can make men crazy. add a little Stockholm syndrome to the mix.

              [–]TheBigLman 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              This is a ten year old ideology. You need to get with the times, women fantasize about taking a big black dick.

              [–]Metalageddon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              Dominance and security.

              Big dangerous and powerful person who can't control how much they want you equals the best security, genres, and provision around.

              Of course, how these are displayed or attributed can shift between individuals. But that's the key.

              [–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              Like what's the science/biology behind it?

              Passion without responsibility.

              [–][deleted]  (1 child)

              [removed]

              [–]Gooseypapa 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              Fr lmao I think there are some women who like getting dominated but not raped.