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The TRP fallacy - why don't most men need TRP? (self.asktrp)

submitted by stokacanec

I have a great career (tech, spoke at many international conferences) and average looks. But I've had trouble with girls all my life, even after discovering TRP.

What boggles my mind is that most of my friends and people I know don't care much about self-improvement and don't know about TRP, yet they have no trouble getting girls.

They don't "spin plates", but easily jump from LTR to LTR. I have many friends that have been 5+ years relationships, they don't lift and their hobbies include stuff like gaming and watching anime. Their GFs are good-looking as well.

I like to ask them "how did you meet your SO?", and the answers are usually: "at school", "at work", "got introduced by friends". There's no going out and cold approaching 20 girls per day, or attempting to game any girl in sight. No Tinder or no online dating. The "don't shit where you eat" rule is constantly broken.

When they break up and we talk about it, I can recognize many BP mistakes they made. Yet they had 5+ years of sex and love. I would happily trade my TRP knowledge for that.

Why do most people not need TRP?

The only advantage I can recognize they have over me is a more natural upbringing. My mother was abusive and my parents divorced early, I had a terrible childhood of conflict between my mom and my dad's families and my dad was mostly never available. Is it possible that I am "fucked up" because of this, without realizing it?


[–]NeedingAdvice86 76 points77 points  (2 children)

Lots of people develop in stable, healthy conditions where they acquire the natural ability to subtly read social clues, understand other people's motivationsdesires, have gotten tons of affirmations as they were growing up which aids their confidence and experience a upbringing which aides in developing an overall healthy ability to interact on a confident, attractive manner with females.

That isn't everyone....some of us have shit case parents, narcissistic brothers or other unhealthy upbringings which hinder the natural development of social skills with womensociety.

In my case, it was an abusive shit for a father who cared only about himself, thereby a mother who hated relationships and a older brother who was an insecure bully who ridiculed and demeaned every aspect of his younger siblings appearanceehavior. This was the type of environment in which expressing interest in a girl was met with catcalls, derision and ridicule by all quarters from your mother regaling you with all the evils of developing romantic connections with others to a brother laughing aunting you by pointing out all your "inadequacies" for people to like you.

Most people don't have to learn that this is NOT normal.

[–]ETRossier 15 points16 points  (0 children)

.......that's not normal?

[–]_quote 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Definitely agree with this as I also had a shittty childhood. However, along with upbringing, lots of people simply have average genetics and are "neurotypical". Think of all the boys you went to school with who were athletic, naturally calm, not unattractive, etc. Unless they have some seriously fucked up circumstances, these kids are going to naturally grow up into normies.

[–]twdziki 88 points89 points  (7 children)

Most of those people will be miserable by the time they're in their 40s.

Think of all the 40+ people you know. How many of them are happy in their relationships? And how many more suffer dead bedrooms or divorce?

RP is not just a way to get laid. It's a way to steel yourself against becoming miserable or outright zeroed when you get older.

[–]purplefidgetmidget 42 points43 points  (6 children)

This is probably the best advice. The 7 year itch. You can have a great relationship when the hormones are flying and everybody is happy, but over time it will start to fail. The solution is to understand what makes it fail, and the answer is, lack of TRP methods of keeping excitement.

[–]omega_dawg93 8 points9 points  (2 children)

the 7 yr oxytocin effect.

there's hell to pay when it fades.

but don't be discouraged... you can re-ignite the oxytocin with your woman if you get some strange pussy.

i'm not joking.

[–]carnegierockefeller 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Why does some strange help?

[–]omega_dawg93 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Google oxytocin and its effects.

i actually learned about how it affects couples by listening to a lecture from the author of 'men are from Mars, women are from Venus.'

70% of relationships survive infidelity... not many survive $$$ issues.

[–]flapjacksrbetter 2 points3 points  (1 child)

What methods of keeping excitement are u talking aboot?

[–]purplefidgetmidget 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Sorry, my post comes a bit late. To keep excitement long term you need to have a push/pull dynamic. She needs to be on her toes, that you might leave, that other girls find you attractive and that they might, if you're not careful, be able to seduce your man away.

She also needs to ride the emotional rollercoaster, she wants to feel, it is her raison d'etre. So some drama that culminates in a show of strength by yourself as you don't flinch and give in to her demands will send her tingles off the radar.

[–]stokacanec[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's 7 years of "living" that I only dream of experiencing at the moment, though.

It's useful to know why relationships fail over time and how to rekindle them (e.g. dread), but that knowledge is wasted if you never get into one in the first place.

[–]TheBadGoy 48 points49 points  (5 children)

These are the type of men that will never be able to properly explain why their wives don't fuck them anymore...

[–]stokacanec[S] 7 points8 points  (4 children)

I agree that having that knowledge is extremely useful. On the other hand, I do feel jealous that "they lived" while I did not: maybe they were in a relationship for a 4~ years, then married for 3~ years until shit happened. That's 7~ years of experiences I currently only dream of.

[–]Casanova-Quinn 21 points22 points  (1 child)

Keep in mind that just because they had a LTR doesn’t mean it was great the whole time. Lots of guys stay in shitty relationships for years because they’re afraid of not finding another girl.

[–]markinsinz7 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yes there's downsides but it doesn't have the same negative effects of being alone (without hookups). No matter what we all go through shitt in life it's just there's lucky guys who have genetics/worked hard early in life through external environments/stress that provided them with fortune in the pussy section thus they didn't have to go thru early struggles in life alone.

No doubt someday they'll get fucked over because they never had to go out to look for somethin like trp but nevertheless those early years of relationships is extremely valuable

[–]redvelvet_oreo 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Stop wasting you’re time being jealous of these people. You’re living in the past and being depressed. You’re still living in scarcity. You said you still struggle with women. You’re still not doing things right if I had to guess. Your game can probably use some work and you probably should start lifting if you haven’t. Develop the proper mind set and get over what you see. Everyone’s struggle is different. You have the advantage your just not using it. Start slaying and I doubt this shit would ever phase you.

[–]zathralos 19 points20 points  (0 children)

I discovered TRP when i got rejected by a girl like a little bitch, came here to learn how to game. But instead, what it taught me was about self improvement and discipline. Girls will come in later naturally after you succeed in your carreer hobbies etc.

So i do think men need TRP to guide them to the right track or keep them in check of their own goals in life.

[–]Big_Red_suppository 69 points70 points  (5 children)

My main plate pretty much never shit tests me, we have sex all the time, she cooks and cleans, shes really into me. I've been in several relationships where the girl met the same standard and they end if I get bored with it or they decide they really want to get married or have kids and understand I'm not into that. I dont use red pill shit on these girls, I dont need tricks they like what I am. If I lost my job or my motivation and got fat thats another story.

Most people marry and settle in these kind of relationships because that's what society tells them they are "supposed to do". Spinning plates is time consuming and unless you're well above average it's not worth it for most guys. A lot of relationships that do work out well have strong social and family connections that help keep it together.

The big difference with these dudes is when it does end they are a fucking train wreck for a long time because they never see it coming.

[–]menial_optimist 7 points8 points  (2 children)

If you believe your snowflake plate is a unicorn, you're going to be sorely mistaken.

[–]i_forget_my_userids 4 points5 points  (1 child)

My favorite part was where he called his LTR girlfriend a plate. That's not a plate lol.

[–]menial_optimist 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I mean she could be great, but once she gets comfortable and locks him down with full commitment or marriage, she will reveal herself and not be as good as she once was.

[–]kylerosa21 9 points10 points  (0 children)

An alumni of my fraternity recently got engaged after only a few years out of college. I think it’s a terrible decision but at least she loooooves the ring! /s

when it does end they are a fucking train wreck for a long time because they never see it coming.

The president of my fraternity used to spend like ALL of his time with his girlfriend last semester and rarely did stuff with us. Lo and behold, they broke up this summer and he was thrown into a rut of depression. We all tried reaching out to him because we had important business to handle over the summer, and he only got out of this rut in the beginning of August. Unfortunately what you say is true; i see it happen so much in college.

[–]stokacanec[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

That sounds like a great plate to have. Out of curiosity, how did you meet?


are a fucking train wreck for a long time because they never see it coming

That's an important point. I felt like a train wreck when my last LTR ended, but knowing that I only had myself to blame and knowing the reasons why it probably ended helped me cope immensely.

[–]mysteryspoN 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Dude I was thinking the same thing for over a year. Eventually I spended much time with these friends who pulled lots of girls without TRP. However, within this I spent time with their families and realised that their upbringing during childhood is why they pull so much. Our parents have conditioned ourselves to be less cocky / confident thus we are like this. It sucks but we WILL change

[–]jamesbond8181 11 points12 points  (3 children)

I agree with OP. I am in the same situation as him. I am pretty successful for my age yet I struggle with girls.

Other friends of mine who are not in RP, power plays, etc. all do well with girls. I don’t understand.

I do understand what others are pointing out that TRP is not only about girl, I agree with this completely, and that life will be better for me at 40+, when these guys are all workhorses, and that’s true.

But I wouldn’t mind having LTRs to LTRs.

[–]seeforce 9 points10 points  (1 child)

I honestly think it’s because we care. Because we really want women. The people who get them all the time, don’t care.

[–]yahyasafe7 17 points18 points  (4 children)

You've totally misunderstood what all TRP is about. Read the sidebar before you jump to conclusions. If you did read it, then reread it again. Slowly. But here's what you don't understand: TRP is here to show you the underlying mechanisms that our society is utilizing, and those mechanisms mainly stem from feminism. TRP isn't about spinning plates or day game or how to approach girls or whatever the fuck you think it is, those all come under "Modern TRP sexual strategy". TRP basically teaches you that and shows you how our society is being fucked from the anus by feminists on day-to-day bases, and what you do is totally up to you. You can use TRP principles to maintain an LTR, or spin plates, or fuck other dudes,that's totally up to you. Here we teach you why Stacey all of the sudden started acting bitchy and why complimenting girls all the time won't work.

But to answer your question specifically, as to why they don't need TRP knowledge to be good with women, then here's my answer: not everyone is brought up the same way, not everyone has the fucking DNA structure. Some people are raised in a home wherein there is a healthy dose of alpha teachings and enough beta nourishment to create a guy who has his act together wherever he goes and a rock solid frame. Others would be raised in a home with their single mothers and spend a good part of their lives believing in BP. In my case, my father was never present in my life. He's always busy making money and I was raised by my mother but here's the kicker: my mother always belittled my father the chance she could do it. I remember clearly how she was telling us how he's a fucking weirdo who had complexes and is overly obsessed with the hygiene of the house. Many times and often did she give him the "are you serious?" Face whenever he proposed or said anything. She kept embarrassing him all the time so in my mind no matter what he did, hell always be her bitch. And there you go: no male presence in your family equals a good little boy (ME).

My uncle, however, was the ultimate alpha who has always kept his wife on the leash and has a son who's always teaching him alpha traits. I mean seriously. He talks to him as if he were an adult. Once, he had a fight at school and came back home crying. His father found him and told him to have some other guys and corner the motherfucker and then beat him. And if school asked, he'll happily interfere, probably saying just kids fighting. This and many other instances. Now the kid is 14 and I could sense he already has a strong frame. I mean seriously. He talks acts and walks like an adult, I swear. His mother says he never gave her problems he's always minding his own business and doing his own thing. See what I'm saying? It's all about the upbringing.

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

[deleted]

    [–]gulag_disco 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    Violence is a reality of growing up male, and dealing with your bullies doesn’t need to be taught by some sensei.

    [–]KingZeeke 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    Great post. I recently started browsing these subs, and it can be very difficult understanding what TRP really is. There is a lot of post and comments in these subs that all seems to share the message "fuck all the options you can get"

    I do think a subset TRP is exactly like what you described about not letting feminism and modern day teachings dictate how you should behave around a woman, but there is a lot more to TRP for sure.

    One comment you made stood out to me " we teach you why Stacey all of the sudden started acting bitchy and why complimenting girls all the time won't work."

    That being said, do you think TRP is a preventative mindset? or can TRP philosophy have solutions to Stacy's sudden bitching and fix it going forward?

    [–]yahyasafe7 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Bro the 4th stage of swallowing the pill is coming to understand that girls are just normal people who are intuitive when it comes to mate selection and relationships just like anything else. But besides that, there will always be some common behavioural patterns between all the Staceys of the world such as shittesting, pushing/pulling, hamster thinking...etc etc. TRP discloses this to you. It kinda sets the fundamentals of how an interaction between you and a girl would go like and what happens from there is beyond the scope of the subreddit.

    You'll both act on your own will and might/might not adhere to TRP teachings. So i should say that TRP gives you that initial push to make you understand where the fuck you are in a relationship.

    For example, if you're in an LTR and finally broke down and started fighting with your girlfriend, and ever since then, your girlfriend is acting bitchy and no matter what you did she'll never compromise, then according to TRP, you've lost frame, you're in her frame now, and TRP would recommend that you move the fuck on (abundance mentality). But what you do is totally up to you. I mean, girls can be BPd as fuck too. Like she could just be doing it to teach you a lesson or whatever her little hamster tells her.

    You always need to follow what your intuition tells you and that's about it.

    [–]1RPLawyer 7 points8 points  (1 child)

    How do you know if they actually got 5+ years of sex and love? Maybe it was 1 year of sex and love and then 4+ years of disrespect, attitude, dead bedroom, possibly cheating? But these guys probably think that's it's normal to "grow comfortable" together and that "women naturally have a lower sex drive than men.

    Point is, don't take what these blue pill men tell you at face value. That being said, there are exceptions to the rules and you've probably met some. We like to say AWALT here but I don't think it's actually true. I think AWALT is just a useful tool when you're still trying to unplug and you need a mindset to avoid falling into your old ways. After that, I think it's possible (and necessary) to recognize that some women are different, and these are the one you promote to LTR.

    Just my two cents.

    [–]stokacanec[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Most of them are very close friends since childhood which confide in me. They obviously had problems, "temporary break-ups", and all that shit, but in general they had regular sex / traveled together / etc.

    The impression I got is that the positive experiences outweighed the negative ones. As always, it's just your turn - but my friends have had way more turns with girls than I did.

    I am not denying AWALT or TRP principles, I am just upset/confused about the fact that my friends got to experience those principles (including both happiness and sadness) way more than I did, without having TRP knowledge.

    [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    Same as in sports. Some people are naturals and their parents probably fostered those seedlings of skills from early on. then there are others who had a passion for wanting to succeed and have to try harder than the naturals. They will never be as good as the naturals, but at least they are on the team. They are contenders. They go onto the field and know they are only slightly above the average fan that is sitting in the stands looking past them, to see the stars on the team. And it is enough for them to just be about 1% better than most instead of the 10% or more that a natural star is.

    You can't change what happened to you as a kid. You have a handicap. Do you want to be the fat fan in the stands guzzling beer and cheering for the winners or do you want to be the 1% better. Each of us has to pick a path and live with the consequences.

    [–]Flintblood 3 points4 points  (3 children)

    Sometimes being a beta orbiter can result in a lucky catch. It just depends on how much control you want, and how much time and energy and resources you want to spend being that lucky beta. Beta strategies can work too, but they are often the men that are taken advantage of the most.

    [–]Hsnbrg501 0 points1 point  (2 children)

    I've noticed that the girls that liked me in high school when I was younger, were the ones I was persistent with, and I made it known through my actions that I was sexually pursuing them, but every time push came to shove and they finally asked me out, I would freeze up, get emotional, and what game I thought I had would instantly disappear.

    [–]Flintblood 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    Ever turn that trend around? I sometimes wonder about IDGAF vs persistent pursuit. Despite what TRP says about AWALT, women (like men) are complex. Therefore when it comes to long run game, it may be best to calibrate to the individual as needed. One can be persistent yet still leave some ebb and flow breathing room to avoid smothering a oneitis with too much attention.

    [–]Hsnbrg501 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    I am in an LTR atm, as that was years ago in high school when being a beta was more acceptable. I admittedly haven't spun plates, as I discovered TRP at the beginning of this relationship. As a result, I have developed a general understanding that it's only my turn, whether it lasts 3 months or 3 years, since I am focused on my mission first and foremost. I regularly give space to focus on my personal goals and hobbies, as I had to put my foot down about it before.

    [–]MurkyArtichoke 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    Kind of in a similar situation, although i didn't have a turbulent upbringing, quite the opposite. I don't really think your upbringing matters in whether you are getting girls or not, unless you are mentally unstable or something obviously. I grew up in a respected and loving family, but it never gave me any advantages with women. I have been the "best man" in two weddings to two of my best friends who've been in relationship since secondary school. Literally over 10 years relationship both of them. Several of my other "very good friends" are also in LTR ranging from 3-6 years. It has always boggled my mind a bit, as i've always seemingly been the one who couldn't get a girl, and "thirdweeling" with all my close friends and their gf's.

    ​Thing is, yes, your friends endured 5+ years relationships, but they all ended didn't they? Most people just stay in relationships because it's safe and it's what they are told is the right thing to do in their lives. There is however a big difference between my two best friends. The first one is a pretty alpha dude, although he doesn't really know it. Police officer, lifts, naturally good-looking, tall, dark, you know, the whole package. His gf is beautiful and lovely, but i can tell she is terrified of losing him, because girls are crazy after him at parties. My friend is continiously improving himself. He is the one who could dump his gf, not the opposite. He is in complete control. My other friend however, is completely cucked by his wife. He does all the hard work, she controls what he should do. We used to be super-close, me and my friend, but he is never available because his wife literally decides when he can hangout with friends. It was bad before, but especially after they got married it's gotten quite pathetic.

    ​Learn to enjoy being single. It's fine to want a LTR, i do sometimes aswell, but there are benefits to being single too. I can do whatever i want, i can GO wherever i want. I know my close friends in LTR are often very jealous of this fact.

    [–]EdvardMunch 2 points3 points  (2 children)

    I think my issue is trouble enjoying a reality where I feel im the man behind the curtain. Doing what works for a result, but this is much of life. Most people cling to everything being magic and chance. If you know how the trick is performed getting excited about the show is difficult. In a sense Id have probably been better off in the illusion, as in tune with my thoughts on reality thats all it is anyway.

    A relationship/life is like going to the movies, you just have to decide how much you can enjoy the film when you're aware of the backstage tropes and fundamentals.

    [–]griz3lda 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    you need smarter partners.

    [–]EdvardMunch 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    I gotta say majority of my life is failure to get good response from girls I wanna date, and failure to get into girls who want me. And its not because they want me, theyre usually less attractive.

    Its a real mental complex, and when I assume very attractive girls aren't into me. Ultimately at 30, all id like is a girl I'm attracted to to agree to a date. Dated "ehh" girls for too long.

    [–]1morescoobysnacks 8 points9 points  (0 children)

    Your friends are going to lose those girls one day and if they don't have anyone else at work that likes them, then what? They're fucked. They're dorks who have nothing going for them and online won't work unless they date fatties.

    TRP/pickup is more about having options to the vast majority of men. Very, very few guys do 20 approaches a day consistently. Usually they find a girl or two they like and do other stuff. Once you get good enough to pull, it's literally the same thing over and over and over. Girls are kind of all the same at the core. There's very little difference.

    [–]ht2k9 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    Trp is about unplugging and self-improvement, not getting the girls, girls are part of success.

    Your friends would gladly replace their life with yours. You do confernces internationaly.

    If your having trouble getting women then your game is lacking.

    Finally, if you shit were you eat, you will have a very high chance of you getting shat on eventualy, because if your friends break up with the date then it will get akward at work, even dangerous, we always read stories of people fucking up because they broke the rule, so the common reply would be "you shit were you eat, your responsiblity", but it is more of a warning people give than a rule.

    If you really like the girl and you don't worry of things getting wierd then it's ok to shit where you eat.

    Am on phone... spelling.

    [–]mr_kuk 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    So long as you compare yourself with others, you'll come up short. There will always be a guy with more, bigger and better everything than you.

    Do you want to spin plates, be a serial monogomist or a monk? Choose what you want to achieve and do what is necessary for you.

    [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    They don't "spin plates", but easily jump from LTR to LTR.

    Preselection and positive feedback loop.

    If you fuck one girl you develop a sex-satisfied vibration and thus become more attractive to other girls through your body language and lack of neediness.

    [–]emein 1 point2 points  (2 children)

    One of the biggest lessons is that TRP is a bunch of bullshit. If you strip away everything involving women, then the red pill is a decent set of guide lines on how to be a man. When nihilism and hormones meet you get the red pill. But there's one simple fact, while it's bullshit the red pill still works if you want to apply it. I'd love to hear from someone over 50 proclaiming the red pill is the way to be.

    [–]stokacanec[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    Can you elaborate on this? TRP knowledge involving women seems to be a logical and rational analysis of evolutionary behaviors. I am not talking about PUA routines and "how to pick up girls", but explanations regarding female behavior around men seem spot-on to me.

    [–]emein 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Like I said, the red pill does work. Just not on people across the board. It targets traits that are found in a large portion of women. Honestly, it works in gay relationships as well. What I meant was that following the redpill to the letter for decades will leave you a hollowed man. One that wont let himself love as deeply as possible in a long term committed relationship. Love is like butter. You can spread it around thinly to cover an entire loaf of bread. Or you can have a couple slices with a thick layer. Personally, I find getting my dick wet with random people to be boring. Although the mood takes us all at some point.

    [–]Jsieijejeieokkd 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    TRP is not about getting girls, it’s about understanding yourself and the world around you.

    [–]Psychological_Radish 1 point2 points  (6 children)

    I have a great career (tech, spoke at many international conferences) and average looks.

    So what? Many titans of industry who are Alpha in their jobs are totally Blue Pill with women. Anthony Bourdain is a recent (and tragic) example. I can name others, if you wish.

    they don't lift and their hobbies include stuff like gaming and watching anime. Their GFs are good-looking as well.

    We need context here. Do these men possess aesthetically pleasing facial features? Are these women really that good-looking? Occasionally I see pics posted around here of "HB7-8" that I would consider 5 at best, so this is pretty subjective.

    Yet they had 5+ years of sex and love.

    You can say that about any relationship that ultimately blows up. The difference is that emotional and (often) financial investments are far greater in a LTR vs. a plate. 5 years is a long time to waste in a relationship that went nowhere.

    I would happily trade my TRP knowledge for that.

    Really? You would happily trade your knowledge of the risks so you can take the risk and feel better about it?

    Why do most people not need TRP?

    Wrong. I can see you don't actually know anything about TRP. If you did, you would understand that the vast majority of couples out there are in BP relationships...that is, dead bedrooms/shitty transactional sex, constant nagging, passionless, lifeless. Walk into any restaurant in America and observe how the men and women interact. Most are devoid of desire for one another, and now coexist in a sort of roommate/friendship dynamic.

    Understand that most women out there dream of divorcing their husbands, but won't due to social pressure, family obligations, age, financial necessity (Beta provisioning), etc. These men have no idea that their wives don't even really love them. Is that what you want out of life?

    [–]griz3lda 0 points1 point  (4 children)

    most women want to divorce

    that doesn't seem right. i know a couple of women who don't like/love their husbands, but most all of my close female friends who are married apparently intend to stay that way.

    [–]Psychological_Radish 1 point2 points  (3 children)

    most all of my close female friends who are married apparently intend to stay that way.

    First, your female friends are full of shit. They may be well-meaning, but they don't talk to their male friends the way they talk to their female friends. You simply aren't privy to the complaints and frustrations that women have with their boyfriends/husbands.

    In one of the more seminal moments of my life, my mom let me in on this little secret. Most women do, in fact, wish they could ditch their husbands. It's just that circumstances prevent them from following, so they keep the stupid bastard around. Therefore necessity becomes a virtue, and people like you get this impression that everyone except you is living in a state of Blue Pill nirvana.

    And even if what these women say is true, what does that prove? Nothing. As I said, women marry and stay married for all sorts of reasons that have nothing to do with a desire to spend the rest of her mortal existence with a particular guy (read: Beta Bucks).

    also I think "you obviously don't know anything about TRP wakka wakka wakka" is jerkish. this is an ASK sub after all.

    Sorry that your sensitive disposition can't handle my blunt approach, but I don't have time to explain the whole damn Red Pill from the ground up. Start over and read Rollo's book.

    [–]griz3lda 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    it's not my sensitive disposition in question, as it was not addressed to me anyway. EDIT: came back to give a more honest, less bs argumentative reply. the real reason I commented in disfavor of your comment is that I've seen what causes people to follow up and take in and eventually master information, vs what drives people away from the subject altogether. you're under no obligation to attempt to convey the material to a n00b, but the fact that you bothered to reply in the first place is such an attempt, yes? and i'm just saying that I think some parts of it will have the opposite effect. however, if you're trying to filter for a certain robustness of person, maybe it will serve your ends. but working in mathematics and having tutored it for a long time has shown me that very few people are so robust as to continue seeking aid/development from/with a population/subject that has reacted negatively to previous attempts. just my two cents; if you don't care, simply ignore this comment and keep scrolling. cheers.

    [–]griz3lda 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    As for the anecdote from your mom-- it is exactly that, an anecdote, which by your logic is liable to be dishonest anyway since women don't give credible information to males (unless it's different for family, in which case I might stack my anecdotal comments from my family against the same from yours, and now we're even).

    [–]Psychological_Radish 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    The Red Pill is founded on evidence evolutionary and behavioral psychology, but much of the knowledge passed on over the last two decades comes from collective experience, i.e. the anecdotes that critics like to dismiss as isolated, unrepresentative samples. This forum is rife with similar examples.

    But if you don't believe me, just take a look at surveys of marriage satisfaction. The results are a stunning indictment of the Blue Pill nirvana, which is in fact nothing but an illusion.

    https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/contemplating-divorce/201709/are-you-among-the-growing-number-unhappy-married-people

    You look at your friends and family, all leading seemingly happy married lives, so it looks like the Blue Pill fantasy might be true. But you don't see anything that goes on behind closed doors. You don't see the shitty, passionless starfish sex. You don't see the constant bickering and nagging. And that's why it always seems that these BP relationships end out of the blue (no pun intended)...because you only saw the nice public show.

    Of course, the Beta men in these relationships think that they won. That's what being plugged in is. The women, of course, have no such illusions. They know that they settled...ever wonder why they call it "settling down?

    [–]griz3lda 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    also I think "you obviously don't know anything about TRP wakka wakka wakka" is jerkish. this is an ASK sub after all.

    [–]manwhoknowshow2feel 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Trp tends to attract unhappy and frustrated dudes without father figures

    [–]Frogkaboo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Is it possible that I am "fucked up" because of this, without realizing it?

    In my limited scope opinion yes. Because I can relate with having a shitty one parent upbringing dueto divorce and all the missed learning and shitry sitiatioms i had to endure.

    By biggest role models are successful men that I don't know but because of internet,books, videos i am able to learn from them Warren Buffet, Rollo Tomassi and so many others. In effect I've had to parent myself to learn and navigate this world.

    Without this self parenting id be a total loser basing my existence on validation which I only got on very limited amounts from parents family and etc.

    When I was blue pill i still had game. It wasn't very effective though and it wasnt on my terms. Right time right girl right place. I was much like a woman but I simply took advantsge of what came to me not really choosing. With trp awareness and some game I truly get to choose now. There might be a limit to what I can achieve but it does feel like the sky is the limit. And that is a great feeling

    [–]falecf4 0 points1 point  (2 children)

    Guaranteed your upbringing has a lit to do with it. I had some fucked up stuff in my childhood too that I had to overcome or at least take a good hard look at to see what was really going on. Also, were you somewhat of a loner growing up?

    The other part is where you put your focus. You have a successful career and all that so was that your focus? For me, I needed to get that validation of a girl liking me and I had no clue how to get it. I've never been very good at following the herd and doing what I'm "supposed to do" because that's what everyone else does so I followed my own path. Long story short, I found the book The Game at 23 and went out to the bars almost nightly to apply what I had learned. THAT was my focus. Then at 25 I started hanging around my buddy who had just turned 18. I worked with this kid 4 years earlier and we were cool. At 18 he moved to his own place, was in a band and always had people over and parties going. We lived together for like 2-3 years. I only cared about making enough money to live, have fun and get girls.

    So you can see maybe a few differences there. Those guys who you talk about grew up in different environments and had different experiences so you cannot even compare yourself to them.

    I'm finally at the point in my life where I am working on my work and my goals and girls are one of the last things on my mind. For you maybe it is now time to work on getting better with women as your career and stuff is mostly set. You need to look at your goals and what you want to do for YOU. Having TRP knowledge at the point where you're at should help you avoid pitfalls that others in your situation wouldn't even see.

    [–]stokacanec[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    Also, were you somewhat of a loner growing up?

    Sort of. Had (and still have) close friends with similar lack of success with girls, we used to play games together or just go out and chill. Also had and still have some "natural" friends that have a lot of alpha traits (but also beta ones) - definitely not redpilled but great with girls.

    I wasn't into parties and I wasn't in any popular social circle ever, though. Low number of female friends as well.


    You have a successful career and all that so was that your focus?

    I did programming in my spare time since I was a child and I loved it. That's how I became really good at it. I honestly lost the passion for it now - I am financially happy but I don't feel that fulfilled anymore.


    For you maybe it is now time to work on getting better with women as your career and stuff is mostly set.

    I think that's what I want the most now. I want to be able to express my sexuality and get girls like most other men on the planet. Guess I'll have to work for it.

    [–]falecf4 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Its work but a lot of people are looking for something. OR...you could always pay for it but that depends on you're personal morals and what you are looking for.

    [–]TheLongerCon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    My guess is either:

    1) They're not actually as good with women as you think.

    or

    2) In those period between their LTR they put in way more effort then they let on.

    or

    3)They're extremely conventionally attractive

    Maybe some mix of all three. I used to have the same question as you, and yes, you maybe be behind the curve compared to many men who started earlier. However, I notice most single men fall into two categories.

    1) Either they pretty much give up unless something falls into their lap through their social circle.e

    2) They put a ton of effort into getting out there and meeting people.

    Type 1 tends to meet a girl through social circle, which has its pros. Girls met through social are less likely to be flaky and you have some social proof. However they tend to have less leverage in the realtionship because they don't have much practice talking to women. Because they rely on random chance to meet women they tend to have a scarcity mentality.

    Type 2 tends to put in alot more work obviously, although they won't always mention it. The girls they talk to tend to be rando's and rando's have no problem flaking if your game isn't tight af so they have to learn to get better.

    Honestly it's probably best to get Type 2 for a while and then go for a girl in your social circle. It'd feel like playing game on easy mode.

    [–]Kabuki431 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    As its always said, TRP is a toolkit you can unscrew a lot of things in your life with that. But I have seen a lot of guys do exactly what TRP says without even realizing it.

    I have a friend he's a lot older than me is about 300lbs fat dude. I just met him after 2 years and he's still same, I used to be jealous of him how he got laid despite being fat and nothing attractive about him. This time we met he was jealous, but it was instant like mindedness and he doesn't have any jackshit knowledge of TRP.

    [–]menial_optimist 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Game. Also, you probably don't know the full details of what their sex life was like during the relationship. Very few friendships are as close and open where your friend will admit he hasn't been laid in 5 months despite being in an LTR. Most people will opt to just fake it and act as if they're in a stable healthy relationship.

    [–]KettleLogic 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Theres a lot of good advice for you here but something I'll add is survival bias. For every one person in a LTR with a hot loving SO there's 100 sad lonely losers without any chance. They are probably doing something right or theres some wrong below the surface that makes it seem right.

    TRP is about a method needed to not be the 100 sad losers. It's going to be more work naturally but that the cost of not sitting on your hands and hoping you win the lottery

    [–]jamesbond8181 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    I PMed you

    [–]griz3lda 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Uh yes it's definitely possible that you have some kind of attachment issue or mental health problem from that. Most abuse survivors do. It would be abnormal NOT to. But I can't say whether this has impacted your love life without seeing it unfold.

    [–]beginner_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    You are still blue pilled as an ltr in your mind is the victory or end goal. In reality many arent happy and are getting less sex than someone single.

    Simply knowing trp and reading it wont help. You need to implement it. Do you even lift? And yes with a damaged childhood you could be years if not a decade behind your peers. So it also takes time to heal. You cant undo damage caused over 20 years in 3 months.

    [–]Wolveryn 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    I went to a religious all boys school... I mean I never stood a chance... Only after reading 'The Game' by Neil Strauss did I start to question everything... and now at 32 years old... I feel like I've finally caught up to what secular co-ed school kids get for free. (Its so much fun to finally get women and my self... and not feel guilty about my nature.

    [–]MisterRoid 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    I would not be so jealous if I were you, because even if a guy is in a relationship, it's not necessarily good. One of my friends had to use condoms in a ~5 year LTR, and the girl was also a feminist, drunk and constantly cheated on him with her alpha ex as well as other guys (would not be surprised if others got to rawdog her). Another friend is together with the same girl he met 12-13 years ago and I have heard he has had problems with her not putting out.

    But yeah, there are many good LTRs as well. I'm not an anti-LTR kind of guy. You don't necessarily need to know RP truths to maintain a healthy relationship, but it sure as hell makes it easier.

    [–]Senior EndorsedVasiliyZaitzev 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    Why do most people not need TRP?

    So, if 50%+ of marriages end in divorce and at least 40% of those that remain are "medium sucky" or worse, tell me again about how guys wouldn't benefit from TRP.....

    [–]stokacanec[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    I didn't mean to imply that they wouldn't benefit from TRP. Unless they internalize it in an exaggerated/autistic manner, they would become even better with girls.

    My concern is that before learning how to keep pussy you need to learn how to get it. They seem to have no need to do research for the latter.

    [–]dufresne90 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Totally get where you come from. I have friends that don't know shit about TRP, but have no problems getting a girlfriend, some of them having a LTR for 5+ years and still going. They meet through mutual friends, at parties, choir, work etc. and have so much experience under their belt, jumping vom LTR to LTR. Of course there are downsides and more often than not they break up with their partner, but sooner or later they find a new girlfriend, without TRP knowledge.

    [–]yesbuthereswhy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    You and I have a very similar story. Most people do need TRP. I was having a conversation with my best friend over the weekend and we talked about sex. My friend has a live in girlfriend and I’m married. We talked about the frequency of sex and I said it’s on average 3-6 times a week and every other week or so I have two lays in a day.

    My friend was shocked because he is having once per week. He asked me what I would do if I were him. I looked him square in the face and said I’d dump her. Being with a woman who you’re not married to and living with but only having sex once a week is a waste of your time. He wasn’t pissed off but him and my friend who was listening in were a bit surprised.

    The difference between those guys and us is that they take what they get. We get what we want and if we don’t get it we don’t stop until we do. There are many people in relationships who are miserable and having no sex. Do not be jealous of people in relationships because you have no idea if they’re even happy.

    Also, if you’re having a tough time with relationships you need to swallow your pride and read the sidebar again.

    [–]griz3lda 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Oh, no need to convince me, my friend. I have zero desire to marry or cohabitate with a partner; it would be abominably boring to be subject to someone else's entitled harassment 24/7. But surely it isn't men driving marriages? I would think that they're primarily a "woman thing".

    [–]dgillz -1 points0 points  (1 child)

    easily jump from LTR to LTR

    wtf does this even mean?

    [–]stokacanec[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Instead of having multiple non-exclusive relationships at the same time, their goal is to "get a girlfriend". When they get one, they are exclusive until they break up, then the cycle continues.

    In other words: no plates, no FWBs.