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I love being beta, but hate the results. (self.asktrp)

submitted by AllOrDeath

Almost everything about me enjoys or idealizes being beta. I like the idea treating others kindly. I like being meek, unpresumptuous, honest, complimenting and easily excitable. I like being emotional, investing in relationships, caring a lot and so much more that is considered beta. And I like to show all of that right from the start when meeting people. The overall ideas behind being beta, like unconditional love and selflessness appeal to me with to no bounds and make me a peace in a unique, but not complete way. The problem is, despite how I am, people don't seem to want anything to do with me. They regularly ignore me and I'm never sought out for anything social. It's hard for me to understand on an emotional level even though intellectually I understand and agree with a lot of TRP. Trying to be alpha not only does not come at all naturally, but it makes me very sad deep down.

So what can I do? My heart cries out in joy for all things beta, is repulsed by all things alpha, but I'm left with my needs unmet by being beta. It seems like a unsolvable problem.


[–]stm08 52 points53 points  (7 children)

This is a brave post. I feel similar to you, and my compromise has been to lift weights, to practice fighting, learn more aggressive social skills and a little PUA,.... but mainly to feel capable of doing these things.

I don't drive my self to be super-alpha day in and day out, but I can at least convince myself that I'm not making excuses to not work hard. And I can turn it on if needed.

Personally I think you're on the right path. In our culture, it is far too easy to confuse being a douche with being an alpha. Live your life with integrity and kindness, but cultivate some (physical, social, financial) power as well. You don't have to be flexing your muscles all the time for people to sense your strength. But its still good to be strong.

[–]AllOrDeath[S] 7 points8 points  (4 children)

Thank you for your compliment. I am actually trying to undergo the same changes that you are talking about. This, to me, seems to be the only sane solution for someone like me.

[–]RPTAW 6 points7 points  (3 children)

Yea man, you don't have to go into a club and pull girls left and right, draining your energy. Do what your comfortable with, but always push your boundaries. Be the best you you can be. Get fit, intellectual and resourceful. Be a leader, and keep reading up on the red pill.

[–]AllOrDeath[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I'd like to be able to pull like that, but I need to take smaller steps as you hint at.

[–]2tangman 13 points14 points  (1 child)

Man, don't shit on yourself for being beta.

Being genuinely kind and complimentary are very high value traits. You are probably great company to be around.

The thing is, when courting women, you can't give that kind of value away freely. You have to establish the expectation of an equal exchange in value. Be kind only if she is kind to you. Give compliments only if she makes an effort that truly impresses you, not just for looking pretty.

Not knowing anything about you, you could also be physically unattractive, low testosterone, whatever. Get that diet and fitness in check, yo.

[–]AllOrDeath[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Idk, I get shunned so fast I doubt any fair evaluation is made.

[–]caxica 6 points7 points  (1 child)

SQUATS AND OATS BRAH

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

/fit/

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (1 child)

I can't see how being honest and not presumptuous are beta traits. I'm including complimenting, easily excitable, emotional, investing in relationships and caring as part of honesty because otherwise they are just manipulative and cunty acts.

Basically, there is nothing wrong with investing in relationships. You just have to respect yourself first. If you respect yourself then you will invest in quality relationships. If you invest in every relationship then you're a pathetic pussy. There is a difference. Hell, a big part of trp is about maintaining relationships and keeping women interested.

Being emotional/easily excitable is also fine. There's a difference between using your emotions for sympathy and simply not hiding them. There's a difference between being excited by something and being obsessed with it. Being a man is about finding the balance. I think linked with this would be listening/caring about other people's emotions. There is a difference between being an emotional tampon and an emotional rock. Find it.

Treating others kindly is not beta either... being a "nice guy", however, is. Treat people kindly on your own terms. You have to respect yourself, have your own life, and within that you help people out. You treat other people with the respect they deserve. When they're struggling then you can lend 'em a hand but you can't pull someone up unless you're actually up.

Complimenting is also perfectly fine. Everyone likes a compliment here and there. But they have to earn it. Two things here, complimenting what someone has done or chosen is better than complimenting genetic gifts and complimenting means a lot more from someone who is prepared to call you out on your shit. If you just compliment then you'll come across as a bit of a loser and your compliments won't actually mean squat.

What can you do? Start being honest with yourself. You're fucking pathetic. There is no way you have all those traits like you say you do. No way at all. You're only fooling yourself. There's a reason nobody wants to hang out with you and it's not because you're too honest and kind.

"Lift" is always thrown around as advice here. Take it. I don't even mean just do weights. That's one option, bodyweight exercises are great too and you could also pick up a martial art or boxing. Exercise. Increase your strength. You will start to respect yourself more.

You'll start to become someone who is actually worth a bit of respect.

[–]AllOrDeath[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Alphas masquerade their true intentions with what is socially appropriate while claiming to be honest. Alphas assume all sorts of things like the girl will like them, abundance mentality stuff, they are the prize etc.

I invest in every relationship till it doesn't work out in some way. I always assume investment. I also get attached very easily so it comes more naturally to go with that attachment than to go against it.

I can get obsessive, but it usually doesn't show itself until after I get rejected. I may have OCD too so it's also part of my nature.

I agree complimenting on what someone has done is better than what they have, but any compliment is something to be grateful for I think. As for calling people out, I have no problem being critical. So much so that has got me into trouble in the past.

I don't think I am pathetic. I think the problem may be more complex than what I said in this post, but I def. think I act like I described.

[–]opgrop 9 points10 points  (4 children)

Go read No More Mr. Nice guy.

Your "love of being beta" could just be negative conditioning from when you were a kid. Maybe somewhere along the line you "learned" that if you just supplicate and placate everyone, they will take care of your needs or that you won't be threatened. You need to honestly evaluate whether or not you are the way you are because of an abundance mentality or if somewhere deep down you act "beta" because you expect other to reciprocate.

[–]rockmasterflex 0 points1 point  (0 children)

God this is a hard read. Just hearing about how fucking obnoxious some of these dudes wives are makes me want to punch them in the face.

[–]AllOrDeath[S] -1 points0 points  (2 children)

I would like people to reciprocate if I cat beta. I don't think there is anything wrong with that idea. And I don't really like or adhere to abundance mentality stuff. I think it's kind of a sham.

[–]opgrop 2 points3 points  (1 child)

If you're only being beta because you think other people might reciprocate, you're basically trying to manipulate other people into being nice to you instead of being direct with what you want. You're avoiding responsibility for your own happiness.

[–]AllOrDeath[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Those are not mutually exclusive unless you define alpha as being honest inherently for some reason and beta the opposite with beta. If I am beta or nice to someone then I believe I am communicating quite honestly and directly that I want to establish a relationship with the person. I mean it's not like alphas go up to hot chicks and say "I want to have sex with you because of your looks." Shit, that approach breaks so many of the tenets here.

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

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[–]AllOrDeath[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Agreed.

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

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[–]AllOrDeath[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I see what you are saying, but that is more of a proof than the necessary path for it being a choice. I could say "I can't say you don't like a cock in the ass until I've taken it" But I do know because it's a matter of taste. I think the same can apply here.

There are aspects of what you are saying that is true though. For example, I am rather undisciplined with working out and there no morality attached to that. Other things are like negging or using a particular sense of humor or pretending or displaying that one is preselected is not so simple. There are aspects of taste involved.

[–][deleted]  (45 children)

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[–]AllOrDeath[S] 9 points10 points  (44 children)

Well, the results make me lonely to the point of severe depression and reclusiveness.

[–][deleted]  (25 children)

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    [–]AllOrDeath[S] 1 point2 points  (24 children)

    I am happy and comfortable being beta. I am uncomfortable and unhappy with alphaness. I am uncomfortable and unhappy with my social situation. That is how comfort and happiness comes into play with this problem.

    [–][deleted]  (5 children)

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      [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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        [–]AllOrDeath[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        I think you've touched upon the core issue here; Other people's ungratefulness. In a sense, all of TRP could be viewed as a way of managing that and all it's philosophy some what dishonest for not admitting that it is this shitty quality in others that makes the rest necessary. So when I act beta and other people don't reciprocate because they are ungrateful how can I be viewed as the bad or dishonest guy? Is it not them and their nature entirely?

        [–]AllOrDeath[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

        Yea, I am going to try what you mention in the first paragraph.

        I still want to fuck as many women as possible.

        [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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          [–]AllOrDeath[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          What's wrong with my approach besides how other people tend to respond to it?

          [–][deleted]  (7 children)

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            [–]AllOrDeath[S] 1 point2 points  (6 children)

            I am willing to get our of comfort zone. I am not willing to sell my soul.

            [–]aOs_Student 2 points3 points  (5 children)

            You don't have to sell your soul...Just see this as an experiment for your ego which is something I'm doing as well. I understand where you're coming from since it seems that you do things from the heart but sometimes it doesn't work that way.

            Try reading this. It gave me a different perspective on why I act the way I do. Let me know how it works out for ya buddy.

            [–]AllOrDeath[S] 2 points3 points  (4 children)

            I will read it, but it will take a bit of time. I will get back to you when I am done.

            [–]aOs_Student 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            Took me a couple of days to read it and I'm still immplimenting some of that stuff. Read it as many times as you need to digest the information. Good luck buddy.

            [–][deleted]  (2 children)

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              [–]AllOrDeath[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

              I'm pretty sure I'm going to kill myself soon. Life is just a game and I'm so tired of it.

              [–][deleted]  (9 children)

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                [–]AllOrDeath[S] 0 points1 point  (8 children)

                I am happy being beta because it's what I see as good, peaceful and kind. I am unhappy with alphaness because it's selfish to a degree that creates a worse world. I am comfortable with beta because it creates a layer of politeness around things. I am uncomfortable with alphaness because it tries to break that politeness. I am not sure there is a flaw in that thinking.

                [–][deleted]  (7 children)

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                  [–]AllOrDeath[S] 0 points1 point  (6 children)

                  I feel if one continually questions something they can reach any conclusion regardless of how far it is from the truth. I feel I have a good grip on what is right and truthful at this point. I could be wrong, but I worry that what you are suggesting is self deception rather than self enlightenment.

                  [–][deleted]  (5 children)

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                    [–]AllOrDeath[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children)

                    Well, I mean, what more is there to life than living in accordance to truth and goodness? Everything else seems secondary. That's not to say my principles alone can make me happy in a masturbatory fashion, but I do think they are of prime importance.

                    I have been thinking about them for some time, but no matter how I always come to the conclusion that what I am doing is right and it is the negative qualities of others that do not allow me to achieve bonds.

                    I'll give an example of someone I met recently. I met a mutual friend (girl) who I thought was attractive and I just decided to talk to here. We talked for a little while, I made a few awkward comments, but on the whole everything was ok. We exchanged numbers as she told me about a show and I told her I'd check it out and let her know. I watched an episode and then texted her a few texts being specific about what I thought about it. She responded to the negative part of my impression telling me it gets better and I said we'll see and then asked her a question about the show. Then she never responded. I can't even begin to imagine what I did "wrong" in any form for her not to respond at least just as a friendly chat.

                    [–]elduckbell 7 points8 points  (1 child)

                    I am happy and comfortable

                    you sure?

                    lonely to the point of severe depression

                    [–]AllOrDeath[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                    I don't view those as contradictions. I speak of 2 different aspects of myself. I would be unhappy too if I had to be pure alpha.

                    [–]cocainesmoothie 1 point2 points  (12 children)

                    do you truly like being beta? or because this is what society tells you is socially acceptable? either way, you can't have your cake and eat it. you can't expect to have lots of beta tendencies and still expect to attract a high quality partner. life isn't fair. either change or lower your standards.

                    [–]AllOrDeath[S] 1 point2 points  (11 children)

                    I do like it. I'm not religious at all, but I think Jesus was the perfect human. I want to be just like that only fucking a lot of women. That would make me perfectly happy. And I don't think society really tells us to be beta. It does in some ways, but overwhelmingly I see people's egos running everything. Movies and TV shows all explore things that satisfy the ego. I go on facebook and all I see is one ego based post over the other. Rarely do people care about being good. I, stupidly, do.

                    A high quality partner is kind of a dubious thing. I'd argue falling for alpha stuff lowers one's value immensely. But I want to change in terms of the surface of me, but I still want to be Jesus like. It just doesn't seem possible.

                    [–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (8 children)

                    Do you not think Jesus was alpha? It might do you well to meditate on this.

                    [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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                      [–]AllOrDeath[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                      Agreed.

                      [–][deleted]  (2 children)

                      [deleted]

                        [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                        A WOMAN WASHED HIS FEET WITH HER HAIR, how often do you see that happen today?

                        They tried to kill him many times before the trial and the crucification.

                        [–]1sir_wankalot_here 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                        Jesus was alpha, but Christianity (Apostle Paul) turned him into a beta/omega to gain followers and appease the powers to be.

                        [–]AllOrDeath[S] 4 points5 points  (2 children)

                        Yes, he certainly was alpha, you are right.

                        [–]1nyrp 4 points5 points  (1 child)

                        He focused on his mission and thereby attracted followers. Good advice for being more alpha. Nothing wrong with following a purpose.

                        Many of his followers, even the Apostles, were not aware of the mission, certainly not in full. But his special aura from the dedication to his mission must have been exceedingly powerful, attractive, and alpha.

                        [–]AllOrDeath[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                        Yea, I do need to work on having a more solid mission in life. I am quite lost at this point.

                        [–][deleted]  (1 child)

                        [deleted]

                          [–]AllOrDeath[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

                          I think I do have strong, but pliable (in a giving other people a chance way) boundaries. It's just that people don't want to deal with me so it doesn't even get to the point where I met need to assert them. When people act poorly toward me I do bite back as it were or confront them in a calm, logical and empathic manner. But I always seem to end up alone no matter what I do.

                          [–]ModAerobus 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                          You can't have the best of both worlds. If you act beta, you're not gonna get women.

                          [–]hairaware 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                          You sound like you come off needy and invest too much too early. Now if you can do this with confidence you might have a chance. I make friends quite fast but I come from a position of power so its easier.

                          Be friendly but not overly friendly creepy guy. Once people know you then go as friendly as you want but dont be a doormat! No respect and true friendships come from that.

                          [–]AllOrDeath[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

                          You sound like you come off needy and invest too much too early. Now if you can do this with confidence you might have a chance. I make friends quite fast but I come from a position of power so its easier.

                          I'm not sure what you mean.

                          Be friendly but not overly friendly creepy guy. Once people know you then go as friendly as you want but dont be a doormat! No respect and true friendships come from that.

                          I'm not a doormat.

                          [–][deleted]  (3 children)

                          [deleted]

                          [–]AllOrDeath[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

                          I think this is a bit different from being a fat slob. And I am not a door mat.

                          [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

                          No, mister.

                          Please go to the gym, start lifting and tell us the results later.

                          The deal is, it increases testosterone. I was on gym like 2 times and I come back for more. Not that I did not do sports, I did!

                          2 years of intensive bike/stationary bike, roller skates, walking... this is all bullshit as it does not raise testosterone levels.

                          Go to the gym and start lifting. Let your body do the rest. Share experiences later.

                          [–]AllOrDeath[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                          I am going to start doing this.

                          [–]1cray-cray-cray 2 points3 points  (10 children)

                          Do you want results, or ideology? And what good is ideology if it makes you unhappy due to poor results?

                          I understand those feels. Look at it like this... you can keep your beta tendencies and even act on them, but attracting women is a learned skill for most guys. Keeping them attracted in an LTR is even harder. At some point, their imagination won't fill the gaps anymore. To get what you want, you need to mold yourself into what they want. (which is reasonably predictable.)

                          [–]AllOrDeath[S] 1 point2 points  (8 children)

                          Well, I want both and that's what makes this so difficult. I enjoy being beta intrinsically while I enjoy being alpha only for perceived results. Each half fulfills one thing, but I can't be both because they contradict each other directly which is kind of devastating tbh.

                          Your second question is a good and logical one, but I would fire back with "What good is getting what you want if you betray who you are or want to be for it?" There is something in humans that makes us want to have integrity I believe. Some people have none of it, some a lot and I think I am in the a lot category. It's not easy for me to be fake or masquerade my underlying beliefs. I truly believe I will be unhappy no matter what I do.

                          I am trying to mold myself, but it seems I am naturally so opposite what this ego run world expects that it would take 100 lifetimes or an all together different genetic code to play well with others.

                          [–]1cray-cray-cray 4 points5 points  (1 child)

                          but I can't be both because they contradict each other

                          I'm suggesting that you have a way out of this philosophical debate with yourself, because alpha/beta are not mutually exclusive. They're dual continuums. They don't always need to be contradictory. You can have traits of each. Viewing those as opposites is too simplistic. This is why you see people talking about things like a 3/2 ratio in LTRs.

                          A goal of "be alpha" or "be beta" is not required. What about a goal of making yourself happy? What about a goal of making your woman happy in an LTR? Full beta tendencies won't keep her happy, and consequently won't keep you happy. But a good mix of alpha/beta can do both.

                          I truly believe I will be unhappy no matter what I do.

                          Gotta decide differently on that, and unless your circumstances are truly horrible, you have a lot of choice in the matter.

                          [–]AllOrDeath[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                          I am really trying to solve this. There are some alpha traits I like and have, but who I am just doesn't work. I know I am very needy and fearful, but it's so hard to change.

                          I would be happy if I had a richer social and sexual life. I am trying to accomplish that, but it evades me so much.

                          [–]1Terminal-Psychosis 2 points3 points  (2 children)

                          It's a hard pill to swallow. You're going through "denial phase". As you get over the fantasy that being 'nice enough' gets you the girl, as you come to terms with and accept reality, you'll feel better. One day it'll just be the way it is.

                          As you improve yourself you won't be faking it anymore. You'll have confidence and respect for yourself because you are capable. This effects much more in life than just getting the girl.

                          Also, it's not a switch on/off. You might never reach the top 10%, but being the best you can be is key.

                          [–]AllOrDeath[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                          Eh, what I think does not just revolve around women. I also care about being a certain type of person, following certain philosophies and living a good life. It's just that I'm in the denial phase. I see how stupid and selfish people are everyday; I accept it, but I dislike it and want no part of it. If not for the fact that I get lonely and horny I would be completely content to be alone for the rest of my days.

                          What is the top 10% like?

                          [–]1Terminal-Psychosis 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                          I can understand. For a while I was totally in denial of redpill truths. Kept going back and forth... this is bullshit! Hmm.. maybe they have a point...

                          As I started accepting the harsh reality, then I was mad at women. Now I'm pretty much over that phase...

                          What really helped me was actually putting it to use in my own life. Testing and getting VERY positive results. Not allowing yourself to get walked on is not being selfish. Took me a bit to understand that, but I'm a much happier, better person for it (and women in my life agree!)

                          By 10% there I just meant it's not all or nothing. Constant improvement is important. It's not a matter of actually swallowing a pill and BOOM you're a new man. It's a natural progression (including the denial and wishing it weren't so).

                          That said, there are genetic studies that show we are descended from only about 20% of males that ever lived, but 80% of females. So yah, only a small number of top males are actually having sex and passing on their genes. For me, shooting for that is worth the work.

                          [–]LS_D 1 point2 points  (2 children)

                          but I can't be both because they contradict each other

                          no, they are 'complimentary' like the yin and yang/black and white in a tai chi symbol ... the 'balanced' male knows both sides and uses them as appropriate ... this is what you need to do as well, gotta learn to bust out your 'alpha jesus' side!

                          [–]AllOrDeath[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                          Ha ha, Alpha Jesus! I'll try and keep that in mind.

                          I don't agree that they are complimentary when you look deep down. There is a certain malice or indifference that seems to accompany attracting women that is irreplaceable.

                          [–]LS_D 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                          RP 'thinking' is a generalization ... but it's a valid one imo

                          Like everything in life, it's all about balance

                          [–]A5M 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                          The interesting thing is "results" are entirely dependent on ideology.

                          BTW OP, Read Mark Manson's Models.

                          [–]2redbluepilling 2 points3 points  (1 child)

                          Not the only one to say it but, read Mark Manson's Models. What you're calling beta are traits expressed as what he calls 'vulnerability', which can be an asset. You may just need a better handle on when and how to channel it.

                          [–]AllOrDeath[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                          I will look into that.

                          [–]RedPillsHere 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                          You can be beta but absolutely make sure NO one takes advantage of you in a relationship, a job, or in life. This is the line that must not be crossed. People who you are beta to need to deserve it. And like someone mentioned before this is a very brave post. I'll also tell you I am like-minded as you.

                          [–]AllOrDeath[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                          I don't really ever get taken advantage of. People don't use me; They ignore and exclude me. I am not important enough or they see no way to use me. And sometimes when things come up I stand my ground. I still get no girls.

                          Why is this a brave post?

                          [–]LS_D 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                          here are some ideas for you ...

                          RedPill research ...

                          http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200611/friendship-the-laws-attraction?tr=MostViewed

                          Are you an 'emotional caretaker'? http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/stop-caretaking-the-borderline-or-narcissist/201404/when-relationships-are-based-manipulation?tr=MostViewed

                          An emotional caretaker is someone who looks out for the feelings, needs and wants of an emotional manipulator. The caretaker defers to the manipulator’s wants, giving up their own wants and even their own health and well-being needs. They give in to “keep the peace” and to please the other person—all with no improvement in the relationship.

                          I'm sure there are a few people here who can relate to this ... I thought these articles I was reading might help some of you here, I guess you could say 'emotional caretakers' are "BluePill"

                          Emotional caretakers are caring, concerned, generous, and reliable people. They sincerely want to please others and are generally nice people. However, they can be easily manipulated by others because they tend to be passive and overly compliant, and to have high levels of guilt and obligation, or fear of anger in others. An emotional caretaker would rather feel hurt, angry, or depressed themselves rather than have the person they care about experience any of those feelings. This makes them highly vulnerable to being taken advantage of and mistreated in relationships with people who are highly self-oriented and selfish * the comments to this article are well worth reading I hope you enjoy them as I did.

                          boys and girls ... the differences http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/lifetime-connections/201404/cant-see-eye-eye-heres-why?tr=MostViewed

                          [–]Aldovar 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                          You want better results but you don't want to change? Tell me, how is that supposed to work? You don't have to be a 24/7 Mr. full-blown mega-dick-swinging fuck-the-world Alpha overnight, but you gotta at least start somewhere.

                          Try this: Stop waiting for friends to invite you to something. Find something you want to do, and invite them. Don't confuse being beta with being passive.

                          "Everybody wants to be a bodybuilder, but nobody wants to lift these heavy ass weights!" -Ronnie Coleman.

                          [–]AllOrDeath[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                          I only have a social life because I assert myself. And that gets tiring. Sometimes I just want to be called or texted. I want to know someone desires me for something I didnt start. I mean, it's a sign of caring is it not? When someone reaches out to you. What can I think if no one does that? Trust me, it's not a matter of passiveness; It's a matter of no one ever returning my investment in them.

                          [–]aaron_the_just 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                          Do all those things with dudes. Watch your life get rewarded with deep, fulfilling masculine friendships.

                          Do none of those things with ladies. Watch your cock get rewarded with throats, cervices, and rectums.

                          [–]AllOrDeath[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                          It's not so simple though. I don't inherently enjoy the things I would have to do to get those cock rewards. Thus, dissonance and unhappiness is inevitable.

                          [–][deleted]  (3 children)

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                          [–]AllOrDeath[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

                          It's possible I may have low testosterone. I wouldn't discount something like that. I am going to start working out and taking a martial arts class soon. I just don't think there's anything wrong with how I am in and of itself (outside of my looks perhaps). It's always how other people react that makes me unhappy.

                          [–][deleted]  (1 child)

                          [deleted]

                            [–]AllOrDeath[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

                            I do have a lot of fear and insecurity and I am pro getting rid of all that.

                            [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                            And I like to show all of that right from the start when meeting people.

                            Here is your primary problem, you are the male equivalent of a slut. You give up all your beta qualities with no corresponding exchange of intimacy. Women subconsciously understand the nature of relationships are exchanges, so women don't expect guys to behave like that so quickly and easily, otherwise the assumption is you are needy/pathetic/low-value. If you would just inject some alpha game into your meetings and work on amused mastery, you could turn your beta qualities into a reward, not something given freely. Fake it till you make it.

                            [–]AllOrDeath[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

                            I find nothing wrong with being a slut both in the traditional sense and in this sense. I think the world would be a much better place if everyone was a slut in both ways (with proper precautions of course). And since my starting point is so radical, it's hard for me to be persuaded by what you are saying. And it's not like I ignore the trading aspect of relationships either; I just want that to be in the background as much as possible. If the trade isn't working then that can be dealt with, but in the mean time let's just enjoy each other's company, you know?

                            Also, I don't view my friendship and all the rest of my qualities to be something to be stingy. I want to give it all freely and would like the same from others. That seems like a far kinder and generous way to live.

                            [–]I_Am_Soulhuntre 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                            You are confusing a few things.

                            There is nothing wrong if you're a beta - most people are and there are plenty of women out there who will give you what you probably want in return for what you can offer. The exchange will work out just fine... BUT even among betas there is competition, and you need to be a good one.

                            Let's look at the traits you list...

                            • "treating others kindly" - neither alpha nor beta

                            • "meek" - sub-beta trait, and not attractive - period - even to women who like betas

                            • "honest" - neither inherently alpha or beta

                            • "easily excitable" - read as "drama queen" and absolutely unattractive no matter who you find it in - the exceptions is communities with a twisted view of a hyper femininity kabuki where being hand to mouth excitable is desired

                            • "emotional" - emotional is fine, but given the above I think you mean "over emotional" - which sucks in anyone

                            • "investing in relationships" - fine on it's own - unless it is an excuse for drama because you "care SOOOOO much!", then it is a huge turn off in anyone

                            • "caring a lot" - see above

                            "And I like to show all of that right from the start when meeting people." - so your an overly dramatic person who radiates attachment need and becomes uncomfortably intimate with people right away.

                            And you wonder why folks don't like you?

                            Dude - this isn't being a beta this is being a clingy person who radiates stalker like need and weakness. No one wants that, no one.

                            "My heart cries out in joy for all things beta, is repulsed by all things alpha" - no, your heart cries out to not have to do anything that would require self control or strength and is repulsed by anything that demands you manage your own impulses.

                            I know some awesome "beta" guys (they have no leadership ability, and no one will "follow them") who are still emotionally self contained and awesome - these are the kind of guys who make AWESOME members of a crew or team. But they are nothing like what you describe.

                            [–]AllOrDeath[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                            Conveniently, your first statement serves as a good example of how I differ, in my perception, from most people. You make your statement as a fact. You don't say "I think, you are confusing a few things" or something to that effect; You state it as if you know it to be true. This bothers me tbh. It's as if you give no allowance to the possibility to the fact that you may be wrong for whatever reason. And from a TRP standpoint I imagine that persuades people. You are speaking with confidence or that's how you would be perceived. To me, it just makes you look arrogant for assuming you are correct and inconsiderate since you do not think to present yourself with the possibility that you may be wrong. And me saying this is not to be critical of you, but to show how in a very real way my perceptions of things differ from most. Does that make sense?

                            As for the individual things, I will respond to each of them.

                            Being kind for the sake of being kind must be beta according to the logic of TRP. TRP constantly talks about the transactional nature of relationships and how one of the traits of alpha is being aware of that and using it to one's advantage. A beta, on the other hand, is one who simply gives without paying heed to this aspect of relationships and women hate him for it. When I say treating others kindly I mean for it's own sake not as sort of a convoluted trade and people are ungrateful. Thus kindness, from my view, must be a beta trait. Only kindness augmented by power plays can be considered alpha.

                            Meek is something I like in others. I think it keeps one humble and connected with suffering which is the lot of most people in this world.

                            Easily excitable is read to you as drama queen. What I mean is laughing easily and generously, being passionate about topics in conversations and getting attached to people quickly. When it comes to drama queen things I am rather Zen like about them and they hardly ever enter my life.

                            Emotional and over emotional are relative things. And often what is considered overly emotional is merely what other people tend to judge as being overly emotional and nothing more. Another way to put it, if others didnt judge whatever amount of emotion to be a bad thing and act badly toward it, there would be nothing bad about it.

                            Investing in relationships and caring a lot. Again I am not a drama queen.

                            "And I like to show all of that right from the start when meeting people." - so your an overly dramatic person who radiates attachment need and becomes uncomfortably intimate with people right away.

                            And you wonder why folks don't like you?

                            Dude - this isn't being a beta this is being a clingy person who radiates stalker like need and weakness. No one wants that, no one.

                            I am needy and I do like to become intimate asap. I don't understand what makes people take time to warm up to people. If I like the way you look I want to bang you. If I like the way you talk I want to converse with you. If I see you are trustworthy I will trust you. All things just seem to be what they are and it's a genuine struggle for me to understand why people take the time they do to connect with people. Thus, I don't understand why folks don't like me. I think my more immediate way of connecting is more ideal, at least as far as I can understand and see things.

                            And like I said before I think there is something comforting about those that are needy and weak. Besides they need love and companionship more than any other type of person so why don't humans rush to give it to them. I don't get it, but it seems cruel in a way.

                            "My heart cries out in joy for all things beta, is repulsed by all things alpha" - no, your heart cries out to not have to do anything that would require self control or strength and is repulsed by anything that demands you manage your own impulses.

                            You are right to a certain extent, but it's not mutually exclusive. Some things I don't like because they are work some things I don't like because they seem pretentious and selfish and mean spirited.

                            I know some awesome "beta" guys (they have no leadership ability, and no one will "follow them") who are still emotionally self contained and awesome - these are the kind of guys who make AWESOME members of a crew or team. But they are nothing like what you describe.

                            I mean what does leadership ability mean anyway? Having tricks up your selves that makes the average sheep want to walk in the direction you say? It seems so... pathetic. Pathetic that there are even such a thing as leadership abilities. Everyone should be heard and the one who is right and truthful should be followed. That's the only sort of following that should ever happen and I try and live like that. All other forms of following is stupidity.

                            What are these people like though?

                            [–]elchoma90 1 point2 points  (12 children)

                            You got it all wrong, buddy. All those traits, except unconditional love and selflessness (with very few exceptions) are good traits. Just don't be a pushover or try-hard.

                            [–]AllOrDeath[S] 0 points1 point  (11 children)

                            Push over and try-hard are relative things no? Or they are based on some invisible social standard that one must adhere to regardless of whether the individual, from their perspective, feels or thinks they are doing either.

                            [–]elchoma90 0 points1 point  (10 children)

                            No they are not... Your perspective is irrelevant in these social situations. Everyone's collective perspective at that exact moment is what counts. If people see you as a pushover you are a pushover. If they see you as tryhard, you are tryhard. There's a difference between agreeing with the other person simply because at that specific moment you don't feel like dealing with their shit, and agreeing with everyone all the time because you don't know how to communicate an opinion. Do you honestly believe agreeing to everything is the right thing to do? Well then you're a fucking pathetic moron, not a good person. Try-hard is pretty straight foward you know the type.

                            [–]AllOrDeath[S] 0 points1 point  (9 children)

                            What are you talking about? You said no and then said they are relative to the collective perspective of everyone which is what I said.

                            And no I don't really know either type. I don't get anything socially. It's all a mystery to me. I don't understand why anything is the way it is because to me everyone should just be open and free and loving and that's it.

                            [–]elchoma90 0 points1 point  (8 children)

                            Shit man what planet did you come from?

                            [–]AllOrDeath[S] 0 points1 point  (7 children)

                            I don't know and it's causing me a lot of suffering and loneliness.

                            [–]elchoma90 0 points1 point  (6 children)

                            Lol are u trolling dude give me your definition of pushover and tryhard

                            [–]AllOrDeath[S] 0 points1 point  (5 children)

                            I'm not trolling. I mean I can give a definition like pushover is someone who let's the wills of others or circumstances dominate his will and tryhard as someone who puts more effort than is necessary, acceptable or suggested especially when if their aptitude is subpar. But at the end of the day, we all need social connections even if we have such flaws.

                            [–]elchoma90 0 points1 point  (4 children)

                            So you understand what you might be doing wrong but can't accept the fact that it's wrong and that most people don't respect that kind of person? Either adapt or live in pain. Those are your two options. How about you give me an example of a time in your life when you just didn't get why people were being dicks to you?

                            [–]AllOrDeath[S] -1 points0 points  (3 children)

                            They are never really dicks to me. They just ignore me or don't reciprocate or give what I want.

                            One example that happened recently and that I mentioned before is with this girl I met 2 weeks ago. We met through mutual friends and we chatted for a bit. It was a little awkward at times, but overall it seemed to be ok. She mentioned a show and how it was great and all and I told her to text me the name of the show and I'll let her know what I thought. I watched the first episode a couple days later and sent her a long text about what I thought about it. She responded with a respond to my criticism saying the show gets better. I then sent her another text asking something about the show and no response. I didn't really get why there was no response.

                            [–][deleted]  (1 child)

                            [deleted]

                            [–]AllOrDeath[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                            Yes, it is only because of my social proactiveness that I have any social experiences.

                            [–]embarassed_sub 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                            I feel you really strongly on this. Honestly you CAN be a "beta" and also be respected, but you need to have strong as fuck social game to go with it. You need to be witty and smart and ready to effectively deal with bullshit when people give it to you. You need to be in shape and dress well. Additionally you need to maintain a delicate kind of frame around women - it's possible to be playfully flirtatious and still be a good friend. Basically, just be fun to be around and maintain self respect without being super aggressive. Easier said than done but if I can do it I'm pretty sure you can too.

                            [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children)

                            I don't understand. Be how you want, not how you think we want you to be. That's what being a man is. You want to be meek, I'm not sure what you mean by that. You want to be unpresumptuous, all that means is you don't make assumptions. That's a good thing if you ask me. I don't think this sub teaches dishonesty, so I don't see how your honesty is a problem. Complimenting isn't necessarily a bad thing to be, though I'm not sure what you are trying to compliment. There is nothing wrong with being excitable, that's what makes life... Exciting. We're all emotional, we just hide it when necessary, it makes the emotions carry more weight. Caring isn't bad, depending on what you care about. My wife knows I care about her without seeing me as a crybaby. It's better that way. We all invest in a relationship if it matters to us. Even if it's just a fuck buddy, we have to keep that fucking going, so we invest our effort in whatever it takes to keep that girl fucking. So I don't see what your problem is, but you'll have to excuse me because I'm a little drunk.

                            [–]AllOrDeath[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children)

                            It's presumptuous to assume attraction which is what RP suggests. Dishonesty is an inherent part of socializing and romance. I just think that's a fact. Complimenting like saying "You're pretty" or something like that just because I feel to say it. The problem with being excitable is that women like men who are not too eager in liking them. That's one of the tenets here I'd argue. I care for everyone deeply and quickly. It repels. I agree with what you say about investment, but I mean it more in line with caring.

                            [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

                            Dishonesty is not necessary, don't worry. You're compliments will carry more weight if you don't give them out freely. You'll like that better. You're right, women don't want a man who's too eager. It would be weird if she did. I don't think you honestly care about people deeply and quickly. Be honest with yourself. I mean, I care about everybody and I wouldn't wish pain or misfortune on anyone. That doesn't mean I want to be a chump who repels people.

                            [–]AllOrDeath[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                            Dishonesty is not necessary, don't worry. You're compliments will carry more weight if you don't give them out freely. You'll like that better.

                            I think dishonesty is very necessary. If I see a beautiful girl the first thing on my mind is her beauty. If I approach her 95% of the time it's cause of what she looks like. To then pretend like she needs to do something else to have my interest is a lie. She already has it. She can lose it if she's a bitch and gain it if she's cool, but she already has some. The fact that we must pretend she doesn't is dishonest.

                            Furthermore, I think, compliments carrying more weight if they are not given freely is just a function of people's ungrateful egos. A person truly grounded in gratefulness would see each one, so long as sincere, as something to be cherished. It's the uglier parts of our nature that make us not appreciate things that are given too easily.

                            You're right, women don't want a man who's too eager. It would be weird if she did.

                            How is that weird? I think that would be wonderful and ideal. The only part of me that can even begin to imagine that as weird is based on things society has told me. When it comes to who I am, I think it would be amazing if everyone was like that.

                            I don't think you honestly care about people deeply and quickly. Be honest with yourself. I mean, I care about everybody and I wouldn't wish pain or misfortune on anyone.

                            I do care. It's just how I am.

                            That doesn't mean I want to be a chump who repels people.

                            Again this seems to be just a flaw in how people process things not anything that I am doing.

                            [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                            That's why so many people are BP

                            [–]AllOrDeath[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                            I don't consider myself BP. I see the filth that people are. I just... want to be above, I guess.

                            [–]masterrod 0 points1 point  (32 children)

                            Almost everything about me enjoys or idealizes being beta. I like the idea treating others kindly. I like being meek, unpresumptuous, honest, complimenting and easily excitable. I like being emotional, investing in relationships, caring a lot and so much more that is considered beta. And I like to show all of that right from the start when meeting people. The overall ideas behind being beta, like unconditional love and selflessness appeal to me with to no bounds and make me a peace in a unique, but not complete way. The problem is, despite how I am, people don't seem to want anything to do with me. They regularly ignore me and I'm never sought out for anything social. It's hard for me to understand on an emotional level even though intellectually I understand and agree with a lot of TRP. Trying to be alpha not only does not come at all naturally, but it makes me very sad deep down

                            I don't think the idea alpha is to be diametrically opposed to what you're doing. The idea is that she offers for what she gets. She doesn't just get unconditional love, sacrifice, etc., just because she's a girl. So, if full RP is too much for you, change that one thing. Make her earn your gifts, or don't deal with her.

                            [–]AllOrDeath[S] 0 points1 point  (31 children)

                            I do this more or less already. I get 0 pussy for 25 years.

                            [–]masterrod 0 points1 point  (30 children)

                            I think it's either you are doing or your not. People will naturally repel those that give gifts if they don't feel they deserve them. So if you give gifts and people don't feel they deserve them, then maybe perception of what should be given is skewed. Maybe you can elaborate.

                            [–]AllOrDeath[S] 0 points1 point  (29 children)

                            Well, I mean it's so relative what we are talking about. I am willing to have open and deep things from moment one of meeting someone. To some I am sure that is too much to me, it's logical and feels right. This whole idea of someone earning a thing is just too relative and kind of arbitrary imo. I just put my best foot forward and hope people respond in the same way and if they don't then usually there is no relationship to be had.

                            [–]masterrod 0 points1 point  (28 children)

                            Well, I mean it's so relative what we are talking about. I am willing to have open and deep things from moment one of meeting someone. To some I am sure that is too much to me, it's logical and feels right. This whole idea of someone earning a thing is just too relative and kind of arbitrary imo. I just put my best foot forward and hope people respond in the same way and if they don't then usually there is no relationship to be had.

                            Of course it's relative. Connecting at deep level can happen in 15 seconds, and requires zero gifts on your part. That's one reason why women crave passion. So I'm not to sure what you're referring about when you say "deep feelings".

                            You aren't referring to passion. You are just talking about yourself and what you do. And you haven't said anything about the ladies except no relationship happens.

                            It implies that you are selfishly giving yourself to women, and they are accepting with no reason to reciprocate. So I am saying you don't need to fully change your paradigm, just let them be the first to move closer before you open up the flood gates. Think of yourself like a pilot that owns many planes. The woman is a landing strip. You can't just say, "I'm going to land this 747 on this landing strip no matter what." You can't because every landing strip can't take a 747. Maybe a honda jet, maybe a propellor plane, maybe fucking ballon. You got use your instruments and mind to decide. The point is you simply need to assess her runway better, then decided how much to give. This way she can feel free to let you land, without being crushed or realizing she can't accept your load.

                            [–]AllOrDeath[S] 0 points1 point  (27 children)

                            Your message is confusing to me.

                            What do you mean by gifts exactly?

                            You aren't referring to passion. You are just talking about yourself and what you do. And you haven't said anything about the ladies except no relationship happens.

                            It implies that you are selfishly giving yourself to women, and they are accepting with no reason to reciprocate.

                            What does this part mean?

                            As for the 747 metaphor, I generally think by being how I am I automatically weed out those who can't handle a 747 while attracting those who can. In theory at least.

                            [–]masterrod 0 points1 point  (26 children)

                            Your message is confusing to me.

                            any more questions?

                            What do you mean by gifts exactly?

                            Gift is anything you give to a lady (i,e, time, affection, things, etc.)

                            What does this part mean?

                            It means there isn't a context for a any gift you're giving. You're talking about deep feelings for a lady, and whatever else, but you are talking about this in the beginning of a relationship. So let's just say all the feelings are genuine on both sides instantly, then there is no relationship can go. You've basically turned yourself in a to girls version of Tenga egg, 1 use and over with, and with nothing in it for yourself. Or you put them in a situation where there's no logical growth pattern for the relationship. For instance, if we assume women are supposed to care about a relationship, there's no reason to care about one with you cause it's so easy to immediately gain "deep" feelings, plus they invest so little of themselves. In the worst case, the time with you may feel so good, but they feel guilty because they don't feel they deserve such great feelings with so little effort.

                            So instead of doing it for to cultivate the relationship, you're just doing cause you selfishly want to express your feelings regardless of whether the lady wants to, or can handle them.

                            As for the 747 metaphor, I generally think by being how I am I automatically weed out those who can't handle a 747 while attracting those who can. In theory at least.

                            Instead you're a find a sure way to crash your 747 on every landing strip till you find one that can take it. Well, that is one way to go, and if you're persistent it will work. However, a wise pilot will use he's eyes, ears, mind and instruments to find an appropriate landing strip that will comfortable handle his load. Then the pilot just have learn to navigate the winds and make a smooth touchdown.

                            [–]AllOrDeath[S] 0 points1 point  (25 children)

                            I'm not sure I agree with what you are saying. I think a relationship that starts off intensely is fine. You can enjoy a thing for what it is in and of itself; It doesn't have to be about where it's going or what you gain from it. I'd argue that's the highest form of a relationship.

                            Also, the idea of earning something like that sounds a little crazy. Not the theory, but the fact that a person can think like that. It's absurd to me.

                            As for the continuation of the 747 metaphor, there is something to be said about being empathetic, but I find people are generally so blase and offer so little that I feel that there is nothing to do, but express myself. I basically have to entertain myself in social situations because most people bore me.

                            [–]masterrod 0 points1 point  (24 children)

                            I'm not sure I agree with what you are saying. I think a relationship that starts off intensely is fine. You can enjoy a thing for what it is in and of itself; It doesn't have to be about where it's going or what you gain from it. I'd argue that's the highest form of a relationship.

                            So you're arguing that the highest form of relationship is transient and unstable in nature? I could agree with that if you spoke about passion, but you don't. You speak about selfish desires nothing of the lady. Then you speak about not having sex with ladies. If you are convicted in your belief then must understand that passion is a two person dance, and you must learn to create passion to engender this type of relationship that you seek. However, if leading the throws of passion is too much for you, then you may try dealing with strong women who will lead for you. Cause somebody has to lead.

                            Also, the idea of earning something like that sounds a little crazy. Not the theory, but the fact that a person can think like that. It's absurd to me.

                            It's not quid pro quo. It's more like you have reach down to heart, and pull her with a rope of anticipation that she will receive the creamy goodness that's she's yearning for. The greatest desires of a woman is to yearn, for the things she wants. Ironically, many woman are ok with just yearning.

                            As for the continuation of the 747 metaphor, there is something to be said about being empathetic, but I find people are generally so blase and offer so little that I feel that there is nothing to do, but express myself.

                            Well, that's why you're not sleeping with any women. You have to enjoy the time with the woman, or people general. In this way, you can make connections. Staying in your own head is simply masturbation.

                            How often do you masturbate or watch porn?

                            [–]AllOrDeath[S] -1 points0 points  (23 children)

                            I think we are not understanding each other. It seems like I may not be expressing myself completely or accurately enough and/or you are looking at things from a certain lens rather than taking what I am saying for what it is. I will try to explain myself better in case it's my fault.

                            So you're arguing that the highest form of relationship is transient and unstable in nature?

                            Not at all. I am arguing the direct opposite. It is the relationships we value inherently and whose value are immovable that are the grandest. Familial, best friends, very close partners stuff like that. We value those people just for what they are when it's a real tight bond. The relationships even tend to have an element of stagnation to them, but that stagnation stems from familiarity and establishment of who each person is, how the relationship works and other time based things. Another way of putting all this, the most fun I have is when I meet someone and it's like I've known them for years.

                            You speak about selfish desires nothing of the lady. Then you speak about not having sex with ladies.

                            I'm not speaking of he ladies because it's not relevant to the specific thing I am discussing and because basically women tend to reject me so fast that there is basically nothing for me to say about it.

                            If you are convicted in your belief then must understand that passion is a two person dance, and you must learn to create passion to engender this type of relationship that you seek. However, if leading the throws of passion is too much for you, then you may try dealing with strong women who will lead for you. Cause somebody has to lead.

                            Again, I'm not sure why you keep going back to passion specifically. Passion is a form of what I am talking about, but it could be just love or affection or good will. But on the subject of passion, I don't think there is anything that logically necessitates one person leading for there to be something passionate. And I have no idea what the strength of a woman has to do with anything either.

                            It's not quid pro quo. It's more like you have reach down to heart, and pull her with a rope of anticipation that she will receive the creamy goodness that's she's yearning for. The greatest desires of a woman is to yearn, for the things she wants. Ironically, many woman are ok with just yearning.

                            I'm not sure what to say to this. Just makes women seem dumb and silly.

                            Well, that's why you're not sleeping with any women. You have to enjoy the time with the woman, or people general. In this way, you can make connections. Staying in your own head is simply masturbation.

                            I like connecting with people, but most people are subpar imo. I know that makes me sound like a dick, but I think it's true. Most people don't match me in terms of enthusiasm, interest in the relationships, desired depth of conversation, indifference to societal pressures and maybe more things I can't think of and that makes me dissatisfied with them.

                            How often do you masturbate or watch porn?

                            At least once a day to both.

                            [–]steadymotion 0 points1 point  (29 children)

                            Not everyone is cut out for being alpha. It's hard. If you want the rewards of respect from your peers and success with women, you have to take on the responsibilities and the effort required. Whether you do that is up to you, and you alone.

                            [–]AllOrDeath[S] 1 point2 points  (28 children)

                            I don't see anything note worthy about being alpha though. You pretend like your shit don't stink and you are amazing and dumb ass people believe it. You ignore people to create a scarcity about you and dumb ass people want you more. You invoke psychological tricks that dumb ass people can't see through. I mean I could go on and on.

                            [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children)

                            You acknowledge your flaws and work on them but you let your pros be what come across to people. You respect yourself first and people who earn respect second. Your view on being alpha is completely delusional and seems like an excuse to avoid actually fixing yourself. It won't work though and your lonely, depressed ass fighting for another way is proof.

                            [–]AllOrDeath[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

                            No I know I need to work on myself and I am doing so.

                            I like to show my flaws to a certain extent though. I think people reveal their character when you see how they treat those who they think are below them and I am very interested in seeing that in others.

                            [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                            I don't doubt that you're working on yourself. Problem is you're kidding yourself.

                            But what does that cliche ideal have to do with what you were saying? All I was saying though is not to let others focus on your flaws, not that you should hide them or be ashamed of them.

                            Is your view on 'being alpha' still the same? Or, after reading the comments, do you have a new perspective on it?

                            [–]AllOrDeath[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                            It's made me get more specific on my problems with being alpha and getting with women. I am going to post a few other more specific questions on here to address those issues.

                            [–]LS_D 0 points1 point  (7 children)

                            There's no 'tricks' with 'being alpha'

                            "being alpha" is simply someone who's at the 'top' of 'their game'

                            Anyone can be ''kind caring etc" but it takes a certain type of personal approach to be a 'leader' in your own area.

                            This can simply mean that the 'value' people(and women esp) perceive in you in something they want. Every woman has people in her life who treat her 'kindly' but not many women have a man around who keeps them 'on their toes and excited' ... which is what they want ... "girls do just want to have fun!"

                            [–]AllOrDeath[S] 0 points1 point  (6 children)

                            Yea, idk what keeps women on their toes. I don't ever feel I'm on my toes with other people. I've never really experienced that so I can't even begin to understand what they seek. The closest I've come is people who are inconsistent and that just annoys me and makes me demand they change or end the relationship.

                            [–]LS_D 0 points1 point  (5 children)

                            By 'on their toes' I mean, keeping them 'stimulated'. What rocks a mans boat is quite different to what floats a girls!

                            RP 'thinking' is just capitalizing on 'feminine traits' in a similar way to the one that females have been taught (by other females, society and esp advertising) i.e. That they have 'something special' which most guys want! Their pussies! It's a rare female who hasn't experienced a guy who's prepared to do whatever she asks to get into her pants.

                            At the end of the day, we are just 'sophisticated animals' who don't want to accept we are animals .... imo this is no different from 'believing' any doctrine which cannot be proven; many people have bought the bullshit they're something 'special' (god's children or somesuchshit) and not animals .... huh?

                            It's this type of 'magical thinking' which is the basis of most of the fucked up events occurring on this planet for as long as people continue to delude themselves about 'the problem' they will not uncover 'the answers' .... this is 'why RP thinking/behavior works!'

                            not one of us, posting here, would be doing so without sex being involved ... however the bullshit we've been fed (especially those over 30) means that both sexes are going around giving each other totally confusing 'messages' about what they want (and many people often dont know! 'what they want) .... this is why RP behavior works!

                            Becoz it is based upon reality,, not 'imagination' (which is why any man with BP 'ideals' tend to fail in relationships) which is why you read here about RP successes,, and you can go to /r/DeadBedrooms to read all all about BP failure

                            IMO our society has (through a variety of mechanisms, religions playing a huge part) come to believe that 'humans' can transcend their 'animal' behaviors.

                            We can, but most people don't. So when dealing with a person who's ideology is based upon current 'modern thinking', if they are unaware or unable to recognize any 'mental manipulation' being 'used' upon them ,, c'est la vie!

                            And until they do become aware of the natural human behavior, they think they are 'above',, they will always be susceptible to someone who does acknowledge and understand these facts

                            Alas, until our society as a whole develops a more mature attitude in general, most people will remain slaves to the stimulii they allow to affect them .... and as long as (many) females thinks that 'acting emotively is ok' ,, they too will remain easy prey to those who realize this for the furphy (bulshit) is it!

                            and makes me demand they change or end the relationship.

                            You sound kind of harsh bro! Why can't you flex to accept their behavioral peccadilloes? Surely these people are 'basically ok' and you're just bitching about 'little things' no? Have you ever considered that it's you who are being unreasonable? and that's why things don't work out?

                            As the old sayings go, "do what you did, and you'll get what you got" and "if nothing changes, nothing changes!"

                            I'm happy to share ideas

                            [–]AllOrDeath[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children)

                            I agree we are sophisticated animals and I guess I'm mostly interested in people who can rise above it. Other than that I suppose it's just people who have something superficial I can gain from them and even then I want something real in the relationship.

                            I can flex, but generally, if I get annoyed about something to the point I feel I need to ask for change, it's a relationship deal breaker. The little things I tend not to mention because I accept them silently.

                            [–]LS_D 0 points1 point  (3 children)

                            The little things I tend not to mention because I accept them silently.

                            IME it's always 'the little things' which cause BIG problems!

                            Personally I don''t believe in 'deal breakers'

                            What type of woman are you looking for, what would you like to happen?

                            [–]AllOrDeath[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

                            Sometimes they do, that is true.

                            I do believe in deal breakers. Some things are just not acceptable or bearable.

                            Right now I just want to fuck as many attractive girls as possible. I am 25 and a virgin so my chance to sow my wild oats are coming to a close soon and I have so much to catch up on. Eventually, I'd like to find love, if that exists at all. Though even in those sexual relations I'd like there to be genuine care. I am not an indifferent person.

                            [–]LS_D 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                            Haha! 25 eh? hmmm for some reason I thought you were in your 40's!

                            ok now, this is a whole 'nother story my friend. Let's start with your love of 'all things BP* ... there's nothing 'wrong' with liking that behavior, and if 'people' on the whole were more 'mature' and our society had a more 'caring and considerate' general attitude, then a BP approach might not be too bad, BUT, alas that's not how 'they' are at the moment, which is why the RP stuff works

                            Basically it's almost all about 'not giving a fuck' to get a fuck

                            If you're really interested in getting your dick wet, then I suggest you have a good read of some of the articles in the sidebar, and then get back to me and ask me specific questions about the things you've read there.

                            If you have already, (I guess you have to a point) then it's simply a matter of doing it! You know, "Just Do It!" and all that? lol

                            Seriously matey, it's like a fishing/numbers game, where you keep casting your lines until you land a suitable catch.

                            Right now you might think any pussy is better than no pussy, and I will agree you with, at this point in time, however I would like to think that with a bit of practice, over the next year or so, you'll be able to approach and talk to any woman who appeals to you.

                            The first thing about getting a fuck, is getting yourself out there and talking to your 'quarry' (lol) Becoming comfortable and being able to just shoot the shit with 'women/girls' in general, IS THE skill needed to put RP thinking into action.

                            Possibly the most important thing here, is to have fun doing this. It's not a chore and shouldn't ever feel that way. Girls DO 'just wanna have fun' and prefer guys who are relaxed and not 'fussed' over them.

                            Esp the more attractive girls who are already getting a lot of attention from the guys, the last thing they want to hear is 'how pretty they are' or someone who wants to 'look after' them!

                            This iis why BP behavior like offering to buy her a drink/giving her a massage are no no's in RP land. She will already have a bunch of dudes prepared to do all that shit, so she wants something 'different' which is where the focus turns to yourself.

                            At this point you need to inform and assure her that you are 'fun, relaxed, spontaneous in fact spontaneity is one of the PUA's greatest assets, it's really the 'easy way' to keep the girls 'on their toes' and guessing 'where you're at' ,, (even when you have no idea yourself! lol 'fake it till you make it baby!)

                            You need to act like your cat! aloof, but not too aloof! The 'art' of balancing the variety of behaviors available to you, for living a 'comfortable life' on the 'middle path', being 'balanced' is essential

                            I'm raving on but now I know you're in your 'prime' years for hitting on women, I'm more than happy to share my experience with you, but I need to get some idea about you Mr AllOrNothing bro! You know, a brief description of your physical traits and what you do for a crust, who you live with etc, as that will help me decide which type of 'approaches' would work best for you.

                            The fact you're here asking for assistance says to me you're on your way to seduction success bro!

                            [–]AllOrDeath[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                            Haha! 25 eh? hmmm for some reason I thought you were in your 40's!

                            I'm interested in why you think that.

                            The first thing about getting a fuck, is getting yourself out there and talking to your 'quarry' (lol) Becoming comfortable and being able to just shoot the shit with 'women/girls' in general, IS THE skill needed to put RP thinking into action.

                            I am completely fine with this and working becoming more fearless in this regard. This is not the part of TRP that I have problems with at all.

                            At this point you need to inform and assure her that you are 'fun, relaxed, spontaneous in fact spontaneity is one of the PUA's greatest assets, it's really the 'easy way' to keep the girls 'on their toes' and guessing 'where you're at' ,, (even when you have no idea yourself! lol 'fake it till you make it baby!)

                            Spontaneity can mean a lot of things in practice to different people. For some spontaneity can be having sex in public to others it can being random in a clever way during conversation. It's so relative.

                            You need to act like your cat! aloof, but not too aloof! The 'art' of balancing the variety of behaviors available to you, for living a 'comfortable life' on the 'middle path', being 'balanced' is essential

                            Funny you should mention that cause I always hated cats for their attitude. They always seemed selfish and ungiving. I've loved dogs active enthusiasm and activeness to play and show their love. I guess I want to be more like a dog and have women be more like dogs too.

                            I'm raving on but now I know you're in your 'prime' years for hitting on women, I'm more than happy to share my experience with you, but I need to get some idea about you Mr AllOrNothing bro! You know, a brief description of your physical traits and what you do for a crust, who you live with etc, as that will help me decide which type of 'approaches' would work best for you.

                            I'll PM you.

                            The fact you're here asking for assistance says to me you're on your way to seduction success bro!

                            Thanks for the encouragement.

                            [–]steadymotion 0 points1 point  (15 children)

                            Well, how is that any different from what you do now? You probably pretend your shit does stink and you're not all that amazing in order to appear as humble because you think people like that about you. You give people attention to make them feel comfortable around you because you think people like that about you. All of your mannerisms, the way you move, the way you speak, the way you react, are all psychological tricks that you have adapted in order to get people around you to respond to you in a certain way. I could go on and on.

                            You're never above "playing the game". It's natural, and you can't escape it. I don't need to "pretend" I'm awesome because I truly believe I am, and I have the experiences to prove it. I don't need to deliberately ignore people, some people just bore me and I have high standards with who I spend my time with, so I end up naturally giving boring people less attention and scanning the room for things that do excite me. My mannerisms all convey confidence and a positive mindset because that's the attitude I have found brings me good results in my life and makes me feel good about myself.

                            Either way you're stuck living this life which has rules of nature that you can't escape. You have to play. There is no opting out unless you're gonna hang yourself. So it's up to you to decide how to live in order to get what you want and to make yourself feel happy. There is no strategy that's "better" or "morally superior" than others. There are just your own desires and feelings. Listen to them honestly, and figure out whatever it is you need to do to satisfy them.

                            [–]AllOrDeath[S] 0 points1 point  (14 children)

                            Well, how is that any different from what you do now? You probably pretend your shit does stink

                            My shit does stink. Everyone's does. I am merely adhering to reality by believing in this. That's the central and important difference between those "high value" people and me. So it's very different.

                            You give people attention to make them feel comfortable around you because you think people like that about you.

                            I do it because I want them to feel good and because I know it makes me feel good when people give me attention. And why shouldn't it work? Cause people are egotistical assholes I guess.

                            . All of your mannerisms, the way you move, the way you speak, the way you react, are all psychological tricks that you have adapted in order to get people around you to respond to you in a certain way.

                            Eh, that's moot. There is some truth to that idea, but you are not taking into account people just being born a certain way. Some people have the disposition to be sadistic for instance. It's not a learned behavior it's a genetic and hormonal configuration. So too I believe a lot of what I am talking about comes from such a configuration that makes me simply inherently enjoy being beta.

                            I don't need to "pretend" I'm awesome because I truly believe I am, and I have the experiences to prove it.

                            Ok, but we aren't talking about you. I do believe I am awesome in some ways (for being beta for instance) and I don't feel the need to show it at all. What I think you don't understand is that there are arbitrary or unnecessary ways of displaying value which I dislike that others crave to experience and do. And I see them as, like I said, unnecessary despite the community talking about so often they've made acronyms for it. One example occurred right here where you suddenly started talking yourself up without it being necessary to prove whatever point you are trying to prove. That again is a key difference between people like you and people like me.

                            I don't need to deliberately ignore people, some people just bore me and I have high standards with who I spend my time with, so I end up naturally giving boring people less attention and scanning the room for things that do excite me.

                            Ignoring people, to me, is ignoring people. Whether it's deliberate or not you are still doing something hurtful. I don't want to ignore anyone ever. If someone bores me that doesn't mean they deserve to be left alone to possibly suffer. And practically speaking, most of the time it's not a choice between being with someone who is low value and high. You can give someone of low value a bit of attention, gracefully direct the conversation to it's end and then seek out something more satisfying. Worst case you can directly assert a boundary with the person and give them a reason for doing so, so they may walk away with a better understanding of the situation. You don't need to ignore.

                            There is no strategy that's "better" or "morally superior" than others. There are just your own desires and feelings.

                            I'm sure that's an axiom of your belief system, but it's one I don't share.

                            [–]steadymotion 0 points1 point  (13 children)

                            Ok, but I'm happy with my results and you're not happy with yours, so maybe you have some rethinking to do. Whether you're gonna be beta, alpha, or whatever, that doesn't matter. What matters is whether you're happy with your results or not.

                            I wasn't trying to convince you to act more like I do. I was just trying to shake your worldview by presenting an alternate perspective, since as you admitted you aren't happy with your results, so something has to change, and the world isn't going to change to accommodate you, so you're going to have to change to accommodate the world.

                            [–]AllOrDeath[S] 0 points1 point  (12 children)

                            Happiness with the results and goodness of the means are in no way necessarily connected though. I like driving a car and many other people do too, but I don't like having to fuck up the environment to do so, to use a non-romantic example.

                            I am sorry if I come off at all antagonistic and I appreciate your well-intentioned act of trying to shake my world view. I def do need it in some form. My problem is, in relation to what you've been saying, I can't look at this from a utilitarian standpoint. As much as I can humanly bear, I'd like to be unhappy and good than happy and bad.

                            [–]steadymotion 0 points1 point  (11 children)

                            As much as I can humanly bear, I'd like to be unhappy and good than happy and bad.

                            Well it seems to me that's your problem right there. Humans aren't designed to function properly while unhappy. Happiness is what makes us function best. So it makes no sense to me that unhappiness can be good, since it limits your ability to function properly. You've gotta learn to be selfish and put your happiness first.

                            What is good and bad? They are nothing until you decide to come up with a definition for them. If you don't believe in God (and I don't), there's no higher power to decide for you. You get to define good and bad for yourself. And yourself is a natural human being which is designed to seek happiness and to prosper while it is happy, so you might as well just accept your nature and decide that what makes you happy is good and what makes you unhappy isn't. Can't fight millions of years of nature in one little lifetime.

                            My guess is that some people around you have shamed you for feeling too happy (because they're unhappy and they lash out against happy people) so you've conditioned yourself to be unhappy all the time so you fit in comfortably. That's almost always the case whenever somebody puts "morals" above their own happiness. Fuck the people who try to bring you down! They don't know shit. You only have a short life to live and you're gonna die. Hell, you could die tomorrow. What a sad thing it would be if you lived your life being an unhappy little shit and then you died. Pathetic.

                            Gotta let it go, brother. Smile. Laugh. Buy yourself some new shoes or something. Remove all those silly limits you've put on yourself. If you were my friend in real life, I'd constantly be giving you shit until you started smiling and being yourself. I don't accept having negative people around me. Unhappy people are boooorrring. If you remain unhappy you'll be missing out on all the fun experiences that happy people have on a regular basis and nobody cool will want to hang out with you because you'll suck all the good vibes out of people like a black hole.

                            You're gonna fuck up the environment around you by being unhappy and boring, not by being selfish. Being selfish doesn't hurt anybody, in fact most people are attracted to selfish people because they know how to be happy and have a good time. You can put yourself first without being a dick to people. I always put myself first and I consider myself a very selfish person but people love me and they feel good when they're around me, so everybody wins. Think about it.

                            [–]AllOrDeath[S] 0 points1 point  (10 children)

                            I don't view my functionality, life quality or life itself as the end of my actions. If I could be persuaded that killing myself would be for the good then I'd do it. My ultimate loyalty, as much as I can muster it, is not to myself. It is to truth and goodness. And I define those things on my own as best I can to be objective, not as it suits my ends.

                            If you met me you'd probably think I'm happy. I laugh openly and freely have a decent sense of humor (I think) and am easy going for the most part. So it's not even that this path makes me unhappy. It's exclusively other people rejecting me. If I had all my social needs met, I would be consider myself a happy person.

                            [–]steadymotion -1 points0 points  (9 children)

                            I don't think there's much I can say to help you then, other than maybe you haven't experienced enough pain to realize you're making a mistake. Give it time.

                            From my perspective you're contradicting yourself. You insist on defining "truth and goodness" as something "objective" (what does this mean in this context? based on empirical evidence? if so how when has goodness ever been empirical, and if you're basing truth on empirical evidence, surely you realize the truth is that humans, particularly females, enjoy the company of selfish people) but not as it suits your needs. But it's you who are doing the defining, so if you are not suiting your needs, who's needs are you suiting instead, and why?

                            Basically you refuse to be selfish but then you say if you had your social needs met you'd be a happy person. Well, who do you think can meet your social needs? Your mother? No. It must be you. You must take matters into your own hands and fulfill your social needs yourself. And that my friend is a selfish act, and if you ask me, a very good one.

                            [–]AllOrDeath[S] 0 points1 point  (8 children)

                            This ethical debate could take some time so I don't want to get into it fully. The primary problem with what you are saying is that you can literally justify anything. "Being a child rapist makes me happy and making myself happy is the ultimate good and nature's mandate so I should just be that" That's one example. You can replace the beginning with anything and it passes through your system. Which really makes it no ethical system at all imo.

                            Also, I can be a selfish person. I'm no where near perfect. I would like to lessen it in some regards. For the record, also, I don't view going for what you want as being selfish in a bad way.

                            Basically you refuse to be selfish but then you say if you had your social needs met you'd be a happy person. Well, who do you think can meet your social needs? Your mother? No. It must be you. You must take matters into your own hands and fulfill your social needs yourself. And that my friend is a selfish act, and if you ask me, a very good one.

                            It's impossible for me to meet my social needs. They depend inherently on others. The most I can do is improve myself and hope that works out in such a way that other people will want me, but that's all. It is always up to others.

                            [–]drqxx 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                            Hope she find you or change.

                            [–]AllOrDeath[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                            Thanks lol.

                            [–]xiko 0 points1 point  (3 children)

                            The problem of being that way is that you are not being honest with yourself. You put everyone else's prioririties above yours. Everything clicked for me when I realized that I was sabotaging my needs and wants. If you are doing things expecting people to reciprocate you are not being honest with the others. All of this clicked after I read models from Mark Mason.

                            [–]AllOrDeath[S] -1 points0 points  (2 children)

                            I'm not though lol. I want to make other people happy. It makes me happy.I want to have intense relationships with everyone and that makes me happy too. I don't feel there is any conflict with me being dishonest with myself. I think it's more about there being a conflict between what the world expects and what I show.

                            [–]xiko 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                            Define a intense relationship for me.

                            [–]AllOrDeath[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                            I try and maximize the potential of the relationships with all people I meet. It's always the other person who is the limiting factor I feel. To define it more specifically, the more intimate and close the better.

                            [–]bennyha1 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                            This was me in a nutshell. I found TRP and this one quote which i have used as a mantra for a little over a month now is slowly saving my life. "I AM THE PRIZE". Not that it will happen all the time but first night out with this in mind i pulled the most beautiful girl of my life with little to no effort. Keep that as a mantra and you will want to take care of yourself. You don't want to be the person giving out shitty prizes.

                            [–]AllOrDeath[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                            Sorry for the late response.

                            I think this is all an aesthetic concern though. In my view, we are both mutually the prize. I would not pursue if I did not want and think I could give something of value. It seems though, in a world such as ours, unless you display in excessive amounts that you think the world of yourself and unless you create a scarcity about yourself that is completely artificial to, at the very least, a personality such as mine then you are simply a lower tier male. It seems very fucked up.

                            [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                            Let us know how it feels to be a doormat with integrity. People like you are whats wrong with this world. As a MAN you disgust me.

                            [–]AllOrDeath[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

                            Lol? I am not a doormat. I never get taken advantage of. I just don't get included. There's a big distinction there. And I don't know how you can say people like me are what is wrong with the world.

                            Also, please keep your emotions out of this. I'm interested in logical discourse.