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I'm one of those "lonely guys" at clubs, how can I end this cycle? (self.asktrp)

submitted by [deleted]

I feel like I need to summarize where I'm coming from before I can get into the question to here it is:

  • Quick bio: I'm 27 and never had a girlfriend; I'm a software engineer so I don't meet many women in my day-to-day life; I work out and have started training MMA.

  • I desperately did TRP style pick-ups when I was like 24, which got me laid a couple of times but it was SO MUCH WORK for some lousy hookups, I abandoned it and tried to improve my lifestyle instead. I find "gaming" to be self-compromising and a horrible world to live in. There are so many drunk and desperate or fucked up people out there, it's not worth the scars.

  • My mental state: I'm aware of all the misandry and privileges of women in western society. I used to hate them and thought they were pathetic, but I'm coming around to the notions of masculinity vs. femininity and I see that women are just doing their thing and our hyper-feminine culture has made me disgusted with it and myself for falling victim to it.

  • I've read No More Mr. Nice Guy and am actively trying to change the way I think and behave.

  • I'm about to start reading Models by Mark Manson.

Okay, so that's it. Now onto my question:

I keep falling into the trap of going out on weekends alone, drinking myself silly and "trying" to meet women. Of course what happens is that I go out, drink a lot, maybe dance and say stupid things to random people, and basically gloss over every woman I see. It's like I want to meet someone and make intimate connections, but I take one look at them and go "no thanks". If I do end up talking to girls, I don't really impress them. I'm too unhappy and insecure to have fun interactions.

I don't really signal my intent for intimacy and sex; partially because of my Nice Guy syndrome. I feel like it compromises me. When I talk to girls, I literally just talk to them.

Mostly, my problem is that I'm insecure. I'm too afraid to just walk up to girls and start talking to them, or it feels like too much work, when all I want to do is relax and have fun. I also always seem to meet guys who are in the same boat as me, and we team up for the night, and none of us ever actually do anything. I can feel them lose respect for me as the night goes on, because they think that I'm going to get them girls (I'm relatively handsome), and I don't.

What I end up doing is standing around the bar, half in, half out, and hoping something cool happens.

Every weekend I realize that what I'm doing is pointless and self-destructive, but I don't want to do other things like going to art/theater classes or trying to chat up girls in coffee shops. The mere thought of doing that for the sole purpose of meeting girls makes me feel gross.

I feel depressed and trapped.

What the hell do I do in this situation?


[–][deleted] 58 points59 points  (16 children)

As a software engineer, you already know how confidence comes from the ability to do something well over and over again. You need to apply the same principle to women. Currently, you pick certain times of the week to talk to them. Plus, you go to a specific social situations such as a club.

Be social everywhere. Having fun should be your outcome. Sex or a relationship will come when you stop focusing on it as an end goal.

Also, when you go to a club you should stop drinking. I was lucky to meet some of the PUA’s you heard about in the early 2000‘s. They rarely drink when they went out.

I would highly recommend to immediately approach a girl you want to meet. If you don’t, you’re going to overthink it in a negative way and up doing nothing. Believe me, I’ve done it tons of times and it sucks, especially when you realize your only real fear is the fear you create.

“Rejection is better than regret.”- Pook

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (12 children)

How do I know if it's a girl I want to meet though? I always find something off-putting about them. Too ugly, too many friends around them, too snobby, too good looking, too stupid, etc. My judgement goes both ways of course. I suppose that's part of the problem; that I'm immediately judging our potential compatibility?

[–]theoriginalmypooper 19 points20 points  (3 children)

To touch on something he said. Be social everywhere. This is huge, I imagine there are women where you work, or men that know women etc. Simply asking how someone's day is going will allow you to eventually build friendships with men and women.

Also remember that the women are looking back at you with the same judgement you are giving them.

One way to build confidence around women is having confidence In yourself. To build confidence in yourself you need to make yourself worth something to you. The reason you can't talk to women is not the walking up and talking part, you don't know what you are going to say to them because you feel like you have nothing to offer. Focus on your sucess, work out, learn to cook, wear nice looking clothes and get a good haircut.

Self worth, friendship, and ambition will drastically change your life. Sex will not make you happy the way a wholesome life will. If you are living life right you will meet a women or two and they will express their interest in you.

I used to be on probation (weed possession) working at walmart renting out a room in another person's house. I had nothing going for me, I was chasing 3 women and getting absolutely nowhere. I had to change. Once I started to make these changes and focusing on me, my wife pretty much just landed in my lap.

Edit: bars are stupid and expensive.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Focus on your sucess, work out, learn to cook, wear nice looking clothes and get a good haircut.

For some reason, this isn't enough. I don't seem to know where my confidence is supposed to be coming from.

I dress pretty well, my haircut is good, I'm a good developer working at a startup, I train often and hard, I'm smart and understanding, I'm not evil, and I'm not some autistic nerd cliche; It just doesn't click though.

[–]PersonalDevKit 4 points5 points  (0 children)

As a fellow IT guy my recommendation is to try and find some non IT friends. IT people talk differenttly to each other than they do the outside world. 90% of IT people are on the autism spectrum, especially programmers. Accept it and work around it.

Try hanging out with or talking to your MMA peeps. Best thing I ever did socially was finding some non IT people to be friends or even just to talk with.

This will help with your confidence as you will know that more people can respect you. More self confidence the better you can approach, even to approach people in your life who you might ignore normally, the mma guy, the secretary at work, person you see everyday.

The sidebar has good IRL games you can play for developing approach.

[–]inhiarashi 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Could it be you worry that the people you are not engaging aren't interested in these same things you are interested?

The key is always to be interested and amused about what YOU are talking about.

Take your assumptions about people out of the equation, your snap judgements on others are incorrect, you don't know anyone and you will not until you engage. Earlier you named off reasons not to approach.

Too ugly is the only one you can support, the others are rediculous. My fiancee LOOKS STUPID. She's one of the smartest women I have ever met, she looks very dull and dresses very modest. She fucks me better than anyone ever has, she works out nonstop and wants to bang other women.

Hands down this woman does not look like a wild woman. She's incredible. Many of them are.

The problem is, they aren't all for you, and you don't know that till you spend time interacting with them.

Quit allowing your first impression of an imperfect situation drive you away from attaining your goals. It will never be good enough for you, it's always going to suck.

Let it be a shit experience, talk to the one with too many people around her, talk to the overly attractive one, talk to the snobby one.

Sounds like you are worried about it not being a good time for you, let it be a bad time. Most of our lives are crap experiences, so the fuck what. Have a bunch of half ass lame experiences, that's the only way you have the great ones, you have to dig man

You check every one of them for value. It's there, some of it is the best moments you will ever have. The rest is the path to the top, suck it up and get to it.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (2 children)

Judgement is a defensive mechanism born out of fear. It’s a way to protect against rejection.

Think of why prejudice hurts interactions. People prejudge a person out of fear. They then cut themselves off from meeting new or cool people.

Just go for it! Get rejected or get laid. The realize it means nothing in the long run.

Life is here to be enjoyed.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Agreed. It's very hard to not judge, but maybe with practice it will go away.

[–]onionbootyfan 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I used to be pretty judgmental like you, always though I was better, smarter, etc. I was that was from a very young age up until just a few years ago. I can't remember where I heard it (and maybe someone else can help me out) but something to the effect of "Before you judge someone, realize that everyone's journey is different and you can't possibly know what the person you're judging as been through". I remember it come across better than I just laid out, but nevertheless it's true. It may sound cliche but when you really make a point to see it from that point of view it helps you be more understanding, and not so quick to make snap-judgements. At least that's what it did for me.

Another thing I found that helps, I read this somewhere as well. Think of an actor or someone you know that is smooth, confident, cocky, etc. and act as if you were that person. I work in sales and have for a long time. Some days I'm not feeling it, and on those days I imagine that I'm Tony Montana or some shit and "Me, I want what's coming to me...The world and everything in it!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQ0Nlsmme08

Also, learn to be loose with your body language and project a carefree and confident attitude. Make it a point to study other people's body language as well.

[–]RiseAboveRuin 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Win the social interaction first, THEN decide if they're worthy of more of your time.

With your current approach you think you're winning by not talking to the girls you're not interested in. In reality you are interested, you're just making cop out excuses to avoid having to speak to them in the first place and to protect your ego.

Essentially you're hamstering a win in your mind. You're not better than her just because you don't want to talk to her. You're only better than her once she IS interested in you and THEN you walk away.

[–]3nebder 3 points4 points  (2 children)

All those things you said are buffers. Go read that article.

Ask yourself “Do I want to have sexual relations with this woman” if yes, talking to her is the critical step 1. You’re free to change your mind at any time and so is she. There is no relationship without intimacy period.

Talk to everyone more. Checkout lines, random person near the bus stop, cashiers and service people. Just talk and bs to get comfortable to social situations. Simplistically, Game boils down to being socially savvy enough and not fucking up.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Thanks, I'll keep it in my mind to try this when I'm out and about.

[–]3nebder 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Whether I want to fuck a woman I see has never been a hard question to answer for me

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

How do I know if it's a girl I want to meet though? I always find something off-putting about them

Doesn't matter, it's easier to attract a genuinely interesting girl if you have alternatives (no matter how vapid).

[–]KOakford 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Hey, I really appreciate your advice. Especially the "immediately approach a girl you want to meet. If you don't, you're going to overthink it in a negative way and up doing nothing"

Do you have any tips on what it is you focus on when making that initial approach? Are you focusing on just having fun? On making a friend? I think when I talk to girls I am attracted to I often have some sort of goal in the back of my mind (like sex, attention, or deep connection) which contributes to panic, awkwardness, or most often just ignoring them all together.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Don’t give yourself time to think... at all. If anything count down 3...2...1...approach. Say hi. Typically, I’ll comment on our surroundings, what we’re both doing, anything. You’d be surprised how good you can get after awhile. Stand up comics refer to this as calling the room. It makes you present.

[–]Radinax 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Try meditation so when you see a girl you want to speak with, you do it ASAP without thinking and just moving with the flow, the same goes for strangers, saying some comments from whats going on is a good way to practice as well.

[–]Senior EndorsedVasiliyZaitzev 13 points14 points  (6 children)

A. You are using alcohol as a crutch. Set a hard limit on the # of drink you have in a night. That limit should be "2" or "3", maximum.

B. Daygame

I find "gaming" to be self-compromising and a horrible world to live in.

C. No, you find "competing" to be difficult. Because it is. And you basically never stop, so get used to it.

[–][deleted] -4 points-3 points  (5 children)

So, there's no way I can stick to 3 drinks, but I've recently started only grabbing like $30 out of a cash machine and leaving my debit card at home.

This is saving me a lot of misery and I don't get too drunk. Not ideal, but better than what I was doing before.

[–]Endorsed ContributorAuvergnat 6 points7 points  (0 children)

So, there's no way I can stick to 3 drinks, but

This attitude is the root source of all your problems. Your self-limiting beliefs will ensure you stay the same person forever. "There's no way I can ever be ripped..", "There's no way I can ever get a threesome", "There's no way a HB9 can find me attractive..."

[–]BurnieSlander 6 points7 points  (0 children)

There’s “no way” you can stick to 3 drinks? If you can’t apply that small measure of discipline to one night, how do you expect to be successful in anything?

You might consider taking a break from the game and improving other aspects of your life.

[–]Senior EndorsedVasiliyZaitzev 2 points3 points  (1 child)

So, there’s no way ...

”That....is why you fail.”

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Alright, fine. I'll stop drinking then too.

[–]irvingwashington12 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's a really poor attitude. You should be capable of going out and having two or three.

Having said that I'm guilty myself of going out and having way too many after an initial limit of say 5 drinks.

I don't think not taking your debit card out is a good idea, you shouldn't be getting into states where you're unable to stop spending money.

[–][deleted]  (12 children)

[deleted]

[–]KOakford 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Wow that "game" you explain at the end is wild. I like it.

[–]johninthebox 0 points1 point  (8 children)

You didn't like Models? I haven't read Mystery Method, but if it's anything like "The Game" it takes a completely different approach to dating than Models. Like inner vs outer game.

If you want to really be successful, you can't just copy somebody else's strategy. You have to deeply, innately understand the fundamentals, so that you can implement them in your own way. I think "Models" does a good job of explaining how to get girls while still being honest with yourself.

Of course you need to change if you want to improve, but you don't want to sacrifice your relationship with yourself for a shot at getting laid. It will wear on your self-esteem, and even if you get laid it's probably not going to be with a girl worth more than her vagina (and possibly butthole).

It is important to pay attention to the source of your motivations. Not all motivations are healthy.

I really like that game idea.

[–][deleted]  (7 children)

[deleted]

    [–]johninthebox 0 points1 point  (6 children)

    Yeah I wasn't crazy about the game. It touched on some tactical strategies, but didn't go into depth on any. Good to hear Mystery Method is better.

    You might see some success copying somebody else, but you're going to be limited. You'll be better off if you can understand the fundamentals well enough to develop your own strategy from scratch, designed around your personality.

    That's exactly what Mystery did, and that's why it works for him. Some of his book will be useful to you, and some of it won't, and what is useful will change depending on who reads the book. For some people, thinking like Mystery is going to be completely unnatural, and in conflict with their personal values.

    Manson does a good job of giving the fundamental advice that will apply to the broadest audience. It's a book more about how to figure out for yourself what works and what doesn't.

    If you're lying to women to get them in bed, you're a loser. You should understand how to interact with women effectively, but it doesn't need to be anything out of line with your personality or beliefs. If you think you need to be somebody else to get women - then you need to focus on being satisfied with who you are. And not focused on changing who you appear to be.

    [–][deleted]  (5 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]johninthebox 0 points1 point  (4 children)

      What is it that you need to lie about in order to convince a girl to sleep with you?

      You should at least give that question some serious thought, for your own benefit.

      [–][deleted]  (3 children)

      [deleted]

        [–]johninthebox 0 points1 point  (2 children)

        I said something about lying. Because that's my point.

        If you're acting like somebody else, you're lying. If you aren't good enough you need to BE somebody else. Fuck acting.

        [–][deleted]  (1 child)

        [deleted]

          [–]johninthebox 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Like what? I'm just trying to help some people out, and hear some decent arguments on how to attract quality women. And I'm having some fun.

          Don't take it so personally.

          [–]stylesm11 7 points8 points  (2 children)

          My dude, you don't understand your value, you are a fucking software engineer, if you are the least bit attractive you're already a heavy hitter bringing success and some attractiveness. If you are approaching someone IGNORING THEIR BEAUTY, most likely you have much more depth / interests about you from the get go, just REALIZE

          [–]htbf 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          Do you have male friends?

          [–]mental_models 5 points6 points  (0 children)

          get with some 3's or 4's now.

          NOW!

          women are not scarce. There's no reason you should go another week without a plate.

          Start with a 3or4, don't catch oneitis, get two more 3 or 4's, then once you have three plates, upgrade whenever you have the opportunity.

          You need to work your way through the minor leagues.

          no more excuses

          no more exaggerating the problem to yourself in a negative feedback loop

          there is a 3 or 4 out there for you to fuck within the next 10 business days. Get to work. Report back or message me with your field report.

          [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

          Get some wingmen. Single guys from work that you go out to the sports bar, or regular bar with and play pool, darts and shuffleboard to have a good time.

          Chat with women, invite them to a men v. women game, mixed gendered teams, whatever. Have fun and the women will follow.

          [–]CypressSmallz 3 points4 points  (0 children)

          Remember this, you have a rich inner world that you love, if you can love it so can other people, and if they don’t they’ll admire your passion.

          Have you ever mat someone who was insanely passionate about what they do? You probably didn’t even like what they did but their passion is what you remembered bc of how inspiring it was.

          Most people never find what they love or even enjoy doing during their lives. It sounds like you have so cherish it and wear it with confidence.

          Don’t worry if other people love it or not, who gives a fuck, YOU love it.

          So don’t look at it as “I’m just a nerdy software engineer.”

          Instead say “I’m a fucking coding wizard.” Then look at them like, yeah bitch that’s how smart I am, and smile.

          Also instead of trying to force things at clubs sign up for a dodgeball league or a coed softball league. Something where you’ll be around new people who are all interested in meeting new people. Low stress no pressure.

          [–]0mnipath 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          Dude you are me but with better current career situation lol. I myself have despaired at a prospect of finding anything remote to a mate. I don't want to admit it, but I am simply too anti-social. I don't know what it is, a therapist could probably have a field day with me but in my native culture it is shameful to seek psychological help. I'm trying to wade through all this bs by reading tons of books, meditating, exploring philosophy and trying to find purpose in meaning in something other than relationships with other people since I'm so shitty at those. It's not going so well. I think my problem is that I'm afraid of people, I might have an inferiority complex.

          You on the other hand, like others have mentioned in this thread, have all the things to be proud of. Your SMV is high, you simply need to accept it and flaunt it. I agree with another poster about being less outcome driven in your quest for women. But that's the part I've never understood myself. As a pragmatic and logical person it doesn't make any fucking sense to me how to get a girl by acting like you don't want to be getting with girls. I've been doing that by default for a decade and no girl ever gave 2 shits about me lol. It's a fucking mystery bro. Let me know if you discover a secret to this stuff. Seems like there is a type of men like you and I that should have some kind of specific strategy in this regard.

          [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

          Look man “gaming” is not what you think it is. It has to do with expressing yourself properly. Allowing yourself to meet new people anywhere.

          For me, it is finding the way i can do the same thing every day. Stability is key. Figure out what you’re good at and own it. Maybe you’re good at first impressions? Good, so get a good group of people and try to recruit new people, your friends will fill in the gaps. Nobody can do everything, we all need a little help.

          Maybe somebody is very resourceful and always has the place to go, but he comes off like a douchebag sometimes and it turns people off. If you’re part of that group, you could become an asset by attracting new people. People know other people, so you can network more from here.

          It’s all about learning to do new things and make new memories. If you can make each night memorable, people will wonder how you do it.

          [–]redpillclub 2 points3 points  (2 children)

          How is your social life? You mentioned you go out alone to clubs. That's the worst way to do it.

          I think your time and energy would be much better spent building a social circle and an exciting life.

          That's something women naturally find attractive. And you'll always have wingmen.

          [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

          Terrible... I have Nice Guy syndrome and depression, so I've been dealing with a lot of shit and haven't been able to open up very much.

          I'm working on this, and hopefully I can make some friends this spring.

          My plans are basically to take some improv/theater classes to get me out of my shell, then start volunteering and doing things that I'd consider good and fun (D&D, climbing, the music scene, etc.)

          [–]redpillclub 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Good. That's a solid plan and will probably do more to help your cause than any amount of clubbing.

          [–]Carbone 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          Join an RSDclub on Facebook and go out with them

          [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          Seems like you got stuck in a for loop.

          You need a break.

          [–]Ill_Will7 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          dude your name is space ghost. go review some space ghost coast to coast. Act how he acts on his show. He talks to famous rich people and doesnt even give a shit, constantly cutting them off and putting himself first. He has an i dont care attitude and is funny as well. Pretend your space ghost and the bitches your talkin to are just on a tv screen while your on your own planet. If you dont like what you hear AFTER talking to them a lil move to the next screen/female.

          [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

          Apply the same mindset you do towards education and work: You can learn everything you need to know from textbooks/TRP, but it will never prepare you for the real world unless you put yourself out there. So get rejected, and get rejected often!

          1. It familiarizes you with shit tests and standard girl behaviour, which;
          2. Makes you less apprehensive when someone genuinely interesting shows up, and;
          3. After enough rejections you either become a self defeating MGTOW, or you'll start treating women like people and not like deities worthy of your praise, which allows you to;
          4. Be yourself and assertive.

          Some extra advice: Women in clubs shit test you because they don't want to sleep with some clingy beta orbiter that keeps bothering them after the deed, while women outside of clubs shit test you because they want someone with backbone and principles.

          [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

          Are rejections supposed to feel cringe-y and retarded? I feel like everyone else just doesn't get much reciprocation when they get rejected, but when I get rejected I feel like I'm mentally deranged.

          [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Are rejections supposed to feel cringe-y and retarded?

          Only if you allow yourself to feel that way. Plenty of fish bruh.

          [–]mrpoopistan 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          I find "gaming" to be self-compromising and a horrible world to live in.

          Well, shit, that's your problem right there. You hate the human race and they way humans do things.

          Honestly, man . . . you don't like the world. That's all there is to it. Humanity loves endless social challenges and pissing contests. You don't.

          FTR, I come from a somewhat similar background, though significantly less failed. To this day, I have a somewhat similar outlook on people. Where I made a minor adjustment was in learning to treat everything as a big experiment. I enjoy figuring things out, and gaming people socially can be fun in that context.

          Even when I'm doing utterly nothing at the bar, I love watching the people around me. I particularly enjoy seeing other guys do their thing trying to pick up women. It's fun to see how different interactions play out.

          Over time, I've learned to fit human social interactions into my more aspie-ish worldview. For me, at least, it becomes fun to see what does or doesn't work.

          for the sole purpose of meeting girls

          Then don't do things for the sole purpose of meeting women. Tada! Problem solved.

          [–]Merwebb 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          Find a hobbie that puts you out there without the pressure to get your dick in the vagina.

          Say, dance lessons, fishing, martial arts (consider to seriously study one), board games, whatever no matter if only guys or mixed or girls. Just create connections, be social, rub yourself into those situations.

          This is the hardest part, and I know because im just in the same spot: just relax. Give yourself time and space bud.

          [–]johninthebox 1 point2 points  (2 children)

          You said it yourself. The issue is that you're insecure. You need to focus on understanding the root of that issue in yourself, and addressing it. Until you do, there's a high likelihood that what you're really seeking from these women is validation, and not intimacy and sex - which would explain why you have a hard time signaling those desires.

          In my opinion, "Models" is one of the best books out there on pickup, because of it's focus on "inner game."

          Another good one is "The Six Pillars of Self Esteem" by Nathaniel Branden. Not a pickup book, but AMAZING for understanding your relationship with yourself. I would recommend everyone read that book at least once.

          You need to understand and be comfortable with who you are and what you want. Then you can go around living out your desires and expressing your values and it won't even feel like work - because you'll just be expressing yourself honestly to these women.

          But being honest isn't easy, not even close. You need to really know yourself, and you need to like what you see. Which is going to mean either changing yourself or accepting a lot of faults (probably both, if you're human). You need to take time to identify what's important to you, what your values are, what you want to see in a girl. Then you need to have both the confidence and the capability to not only speak but act in congruence with your chosen framework. This is all going to take a lot of time, and a lot of failure. And there's always room for improvement.

          But you seem like you're on the right track. You're at least fairly self-aware, you have a good job and some healthy hobbies, you're learning and you're getting out "in the field."

          I think (guessing, of course) that you are the trapping and depressing force in your life, because you are repressing your natural thoughts and behaviors in an effort to meet women. I think you need to focus on understanding why you think you need to do that, and convincing yourself that it isn't true (which it almost certainly isn't).

          A big part of "Models" is seeing rejection as a tool for weeding out incompatible women. So if you're hung up on avoiding rejection, you're in for a treat with that book.

          [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

          Thanks for this. It's been a long hard road, and I'm not sure I'll ever get there, but I'm trying.

          "The Six Pillars of Self Esteem" looks like exactly what I need right now, so I'm going to start reading this today.

          [–]johninthebox 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          Happy to help. Just don't quit, and don't die.

          Can't praise that book enough. I know it's helped me a lot. The writing style is a bit dry, but being a software engineer hopefully you won't get too hung up on that.

          Some of these other comments, along the lines of "man up and make it work"... Obviously you have to admit to yourself when you're being a pussy, and you should always be challenging yourself to improve. But you don't want to be disingenuous, or an intentional asshole. And life isn't about how many holes you can stick your dick in.

          I think there are a lot of insecure guys on this sub who are more interested in validation than in sexual experience itself.

          [–]empatheticapathetic 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Hey bro you sound like me. Same issues, age and all that shit.

          Biggest breakthrough in my own personal zen and game is being out with someone. So i've been out and girls have been there for the potential taking but my confidence isn't there and neither is my desire really.

          So i've used these opportunities to meet guys and become friends with them. Now i have one or two bros i am able to go out/drinking with and my game is on a different planet compared to being alone. And the social proof helps a lot. Outcome independence is there so you can really take a risk with women and have a buffer instead of being singled out as a weirdo if shit doesn't go well.

          The next thing is reading the power of now. I know you probably had a look at it when you first joined TRP like i did but i finally bought a proper copy and reading it fully. It's just amazing really. Totally removing those self limiting beliefs in a really healthy way and allowing me to just be myself and not who i think i'm supposed to be based on my self perceived SMV or experience level. I'd suggest buying a second hand copy and reading it daily.

          [–]beastmodeking 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Maybe clubs aren't your strong suit to meet women ? Why not try other venues and see which one you like. Like go to a meetup group that interest you but also has a lot of women that attend. I hear you on that liquid courage once I start drinking at a bar I don't care to talk to girls I just wanna drink so I been in your shoes before. Also I highly recommend you read all the rational male books it's well worth it. I'm not sure where you live but maybe you can get a few guys to practice taking to girls. You need to get comfortable in there presence

          [–][deleted]  (2 children)

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          [–]WhoSweg 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          look G, you're 29, bald and average height. I've seen you comment a few times just "how tall are you" "ha imagine being my height" or some shit like that. I'm 19, have a reciding hairline and am 5'8. My n count is 17. You need serious help my friend. You keep commenting about how hard life is because you're short and bald (trust me I know it's shit) but just get to the gym and start working out. Once you're fucking jacked if girls don't like you then welp unlucky fam.

          [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          5'11''. Tall enough.