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If marriage has such a poor risk cost analysis for men, what alternatives exist for those of us who want to raise kids in a two parent household? (self.asktrp)

submitted by Hathadar

Do red pill guys successfully do it without the legal contract of marriage?


[–]Throwaway-242424 77 points78 points  (8 children)

A lot of jurisdictions treat defactos as married anyway. I guess the only answer is to vet the woman extremely well and stay on top of your game.

[–]Trosso 49 points50 points  (2 children)

This is really the only answer. To add to this, doesn't matter how well you vet the woman and how much you stay on top of your game, sometimes women just do the most retarded thing and ruin it all for ridiculous reasons. Shit like that can't be foreseen, no matter how good you vet the woman - they all have the potential to blow up your life.

just a factor of life innit

[–]Endorsed ContributorUEMcGill 12 points13 points  (1 child)

This is where abundance comes into play. Vet well, but structure your life so that you always have options. There maybe risks associated with even the best high value women going AWALT, but if you have choices you can move onto other options if you choose.

[–]Trosso 1 point2 points  (0 children)

very true, great advice.

[–]ddiogenesofsinope 8 points9 points  (3 children)

That's like going into a game of high stakes poker that lasts forever, that you cant fold on, with the attitude 'stay on top of your game'

Yeah sure you may win but if you lose, you can really lose everything

[–]Throwaway-242424 12 points13 points  (1 child)

What's the alternative for guys who want to raise kids in a two parent household though?

[–]ddiogenesofsinope 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Your risk... You have no safety net if it goes wrong. Just make sure its what you really want.

[–]desanar1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That’s the best analogy I’ve ever read

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

A lot of jurisdictions treat defactos as married anyway.

Canadian here, can confirm.

The only province in Canada where you can live with a girl and not be declared de facto married (she can take half your shit) is Quebec.

Edit: Canada is so feminist it's not even worth chancing this no matter how much the girl has been vetted.

[–]TheBrokenRuler 57 points58 points  (20 children)

there's a sub for the married RP guys that might have some good advice. I honestly think they're fighting a losing battle but I admire their strength of character in putting up with these silly thots every day.

Also, prenup.

[–]hrm0894 21 points22 points  (13 children)

I'm not that old, but I'm at an age where I think marriage is a huge scam. But I also wonder if life will be sad in my later years without a wife and kids.

[–]maybeiwillremember01 14 points15 points  (8 children)

It's not a scam, and there is no logic to it. Most people generally have a biological imperative to breed.

I thought kids were so stupid and wondered why everyone had them when I was younger. Now I'm 33, and I'll be damned if I'm not itching to knock up every girl I date.

[–]daxxipro 6 points7 points  (3 children)

Op's argument is against marriage, not necessarily the idea of not having kids.

Today, marriage and kids go together which is just an unfortunate side effect.

[–]i_Hate_us 9 points10 points  (2 children)

Raising a family is the whole point of marriage

[–]daxxipro 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I know plenty of people who are married without kids.

Not everyone is logical.

[–]scl17freak 1 point2 points  (0 children)

usually accidental unfortunately

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 3 points4 points  (3 children)

It's not a scam

Marriage is a scam - it's a form of prostitution in which young men get to fuck young women but instead of paying a few hundred dollars at the time they pay a few hundred thousand dollars later.

[–]maybeiwillremember01 0 points1 point  (2 children)

I was responding to the guy saying 'having kids is a scam'. Not sure if he edited his post or if I misread

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Ah.

Having kids is an instinct of many people. The scam part is that men are now only allowed to be fathers with the mother's consent. One mutter of "I feel scared" and he's removed from his children's lives. Obviously his child support will continue to be extracted in this case.

[–]hrm0894 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You misread. I'm talking specifically about marriage, not kids

[–]FwoGiZ 1 point2 points  (0 children)

On your very last stretch of life, wife n kids or not, I assure you a very hot and young PSW will be taking care of your either way ;)

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Marriage is obviously a scam, that's not in question.

But I also wonder if life will be sad in my later years without a wife and kids.

Read the sidebar.

You want to be lonely in old age? Get married young and get divorceraped later in life. Watch as your beloved eviscerates your social network (what's left of it) and sets out to destroy you to feed her ego.

Here's another idea: don't get married, do have kids, maintain control and responsibility over your own life, have an extensive friend network, and don't leave yourself open to the whim of some woman leveraging her state support network to destroy you while she and her friends laugh about it over the champagne you paid for.

[–]RedPilledGodEmperor 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yep. I have seen and heard plenty of stories of men who get married, divorced and feel more lonely than before the marriage. Divorce is no joke. It has been shown to have the potential to completely ruin a man's life in ways he never saw coming. It's why so many men (not sure what percent) kill themselves after their divorce. Never been married and never will. Not even once.

https://hashimashi.com/divorce-and-suicide/

[–]jahesus 4 points5 points  (4 children)

Coming from that sub, you are dead right. I would wager most of them are like I was. Start BP, find and take the pill, and it works for them. For a time. AWALT. It will fail, women are crazy, and men forget abundance.

Don't fucking do it. You want kids, fine. Don't get fucking married.

[–]TitsAndWhiskey -1 points0 points  (3 children)

Well if you want kids, assume you will eventually be paying child support.

If you marry or live with the mom, you can also assume you will be paying alimony and half your assets at some point.

Make your choices.

[–]jahesus 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Or, don't get married and fight like hell if she trys anything. Which she will and you will still have to pay out the nose for them. Primary custody means no child support.

[–]TitsAndWhiskey 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Good luck with that

[–]jahesus 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm hoping with proof of abuse, a hospitalization for suicide, alchoholism, and mental disorders it's easier.

[–]FwoGiZ 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Prenup are too often brushed off left and right to use em as a strong argument or to advise for em.

[–]Endorsed ContributorAuvergnat 25 points26 points  (12 children)

The standard answer is: move to a country that has not been infected by feminism yet. Hopefully you might have the time to adjust to the new culture and religion, find a girl, get married, and get a kid, although feminism will probably be there by the time he's a teen.

[–]ThatKidinAfrica 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I think my country will be the last one to be affected by Feminism (Afghanistan).

[–]Redasshole 8 points9 points  (6 children)

I live in africa. Even here there is feminisl

[–]Trosso 21 points22 points  (5 children)

damn you get the worst of both worlds - Feminism and you have to live on a degenerate continent.

[–]Redasshole -4 points-3 points  (4 children)

Still better than the US, believe me.

[–]sehns 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I'm kind of fascinated by this - you are a US expat? What country in Africa are you living in? What's it like? Would be very interested to hear about your situation.

[–][deleted]  (2 children)

[deleted]

    [–]Freenorthman 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    Lol the us is infested with left wing snowflakes fuck that

    [–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    The UK has awful feminism, but at least it doesn't have defacto marriage.

    [–]ppanthero 0 points1 point  (2 children)

    Where would that be? And i am not going to some shithole muslim country. (Maybe eastern europe, i am living on the czech border. Czechia is nice, but that far away from western society.)

    [–]Helpcalculus 8 points9 points  (1 child)

    Eastern Europe indeed.

    We do have feminists, but only 30 blue hair cunts who have no power. I've never heard of divorce rape or false rape allegations here.

    [–]ppanthero 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Thats good to know 😉

    [–]dandar4600 9 points10 points  (6 children)

    Marriage is not a poor risk if both of you work and make similar income.

    It's only a risk if your wife is a SAHM as in case of a divorce you may be obligated to pay spousal support. Even that is not as big a risk as it used to be. States are moving away from lifetime spousal support.

    Child support would have to be paid whether you are single or married. If she has a child from Chad you have limited time to challenge paternity if you're married. In some states you may have just 30 to 60 days after that you're on the hook for his child even if she moves in with him.

    So vet well and stay on top of your game because marriage is red pill on hard mode.

    [–]FwoGiZ 10 points11 points  (3 children)

    You realize how much hypergamy will ruin your relationship if you both make similar income? It is foolish to hope for that kinda equality... I tried for very long and they were all the worst relationships I've ever been in.

    [–]dandar4600 12 points13 points  (2 children)

    Been married over 15 years, 2 kids and after years of being close to even, wife now makes more than I. You pick your poison but I'd rather have a busy wife than one bored out of her mind itching to go out once you get home.

    [–]FwoGiZ 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    I know a guy who jumped a 3 floor building once.. he didn't break his ankles. Are you saying we should start recommending people to jump off 3 floors buildings? You can have a SO with hobbies and even a job without hoping that you're "even" financially" talking. Hypergamy is just a reality and advising to aim for even simply is a bad tip. But I truly hope your relationship will remain healthy and intact. Good luck

    [–]dandar4600 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    All the firsthand stories I've heard about wife's cheating on their husbands was from relationships where the guy worked long hours and the wife stayed home. If I were to recommend anything it would be not to agree to having a wife be stay at home mom. All my friends who have stable long term marriages like mine, their wives work. They don't stay at home fantasizing about Chad stealing them away from their boring lives.

    [–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Marriage is not a poor risk if both of you work and make similar income.

    Not true. This is the equality myth. If she has any time out for any reason, you'll be paying to support her AND you'll be paying again on divorce because she "grew accustomed" to it. The reverse does not apply.

    marriage is red pill on hard mode.

    Marriage is redpill on suicide mode

    [–]ppanthero 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Yes and no. Yes for having better outcome in courts (probably), no for hypergamy ruining such relationships pretty easy.

    [–]stylesm11 15 points16 points  (6 children)

    I was thinking of paying for a surrogate but geez man I'd be shunned by society hard

    [–]Helpcalculus 17 points18 points  (4 children)

    A child needs both parents. Whether we like it or not.

    [–]stylesm11 7 points8 points  (0 children)

    That's kinda that point too , it's wrong to take the experience of a mother from akid

    [–]FlyingSexistPig -5 points-4 points  (1 child)

    The more that I see what moms do to their children, the less I believe this to be true.

    [–]Helpcalculus 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Don't take example from childish whores these day. Take example from previous generations. They stick to the family no matter what and would take a bullet for their children.

    [–]Dabunghole 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    So what? Why should you care what other people think?

    [–]Bruchibre 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    I think I will get married the day I will want kids. Luckily I’m not from USA though. I’d say prenup is mandatory.

    [–]netopatineto 3 points4 points  (1 child)

    My uncle is one of the most red pilled men I know and he has been living with my aunt in consensual union for 20 years now

    [–]123undeuxtrois123 10 points11 points  (0 children)

    When your uncle married feminism wasn’t that toxic.

    [–]duntoon 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    You can try marrying a wealthy woman, or someone who outearns you. During divorce, it'll be her getting financially hit.

    [–]buddboy 8 points9 points  (11 children)

    Fake marriage. Give her a wedding, let her wear a ring, tell people you are married, but no paperwork. She gets to have her party and says she's married, but really there is no additional commitment. As long as you keep your SMV up and hers continues to decline, she will be a good "wife" because she knows you can always leave just like before

    [–]Senior EndorsedVasiliyZaitzev 6 points7 points  (6 children)

    Still have to be careful abt that depending on where you live.

    [–]buddboy 2 points3 points  (5 children)

    what do you mean?

    [–]paniconomics 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    where I live this makes you defacto married

    [–]improvising1 5 points6 points  (3 children)

    In many places cohabitating beyond a specified period makes you de facto by law.

    I'd say a prenup is your best bet. Where I live they're called financially binding agreements (and can be applied for de facto relationships) and actually seem to hold up but depending on where you live these sort of legal tools seems to vary in their effectiveness.

    [–]buddboy 0 points1 point  (2 children)

    wow, this is in the US?

    [–]Senior EndorsedVasiliyZaitzev 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    It varies by state.

    [–]improvising1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Australia here and it varies state to state same as in the US.

    [–]Zanford 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Look up the local law over whether this can get you considered legally married anyway .

    [–][deleted]  (2 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]buddboy 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      I've tested the waters with platonic friends. They didn't love the idea but didn't hate it. They said stuff like "what about taxes"

      [–]ppanthero 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      Yes, its hard. I wpuld like to have kids and in the end its proven that two parent households lead to the best outcome. I guess apply TRP principles to your best knowledge and keep up your game is the best you can do.

      [–]GoblinKnight 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      If you and your wife are even somewhat religious people and would like to get married, try going through your church/synagogue etc. All you would have to is get the person in charge to draw up a marriage contract and both of you would sign it. Have a party, and you're good. Both of you are married, but not filed with the state or federal govt.

      [–]1DubbleFUPAwitCheez 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      In the wisdom of many game blogs and my own personal experience, if she starts pushing you for marriage, it's a bad sign. Ironic since it's the opposite of how the beginning has to be (her asking for the relationship) but a female that wants you extremely bad will never rock the boat.

      They will be too scared to run you off to ever mention marriage. The one girl I've been with that I think I could have grown old with never mentioned marriage and we were never "officially" in a relationship. She just knew I was around and that was all she needed.

      [–]cbogart2 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      marriage, prenup. The prenup is very important. Make it fair, but make sure you acquire assets before the marriage and keep them separate from the marriage (rental properties, retirement etc). Make sure your retirement stays a separate asset from the marriage. I do share other assets 50/50 (family home). The prenup took away most of the rose tinted romance from getting married (which is good). Ultimately it is largely a business decision, and the business is forming a family and raising kids. The prenup changed everything. It made my wife see that divorce would not be a profitable outcome and it also underscored how much more I was bringing to the table. She learned pretty fast that the only positive way forward was to hang onto me. There were tense moments before we got married and her attorney advised her not to sign it but she signed it anyway. it was a very fair agreement in the end and right now the asset split is about 65% (me)/35 %(her). She works and it will never be 50/50 (or worse).

      [–][deleted]  (4 children)

      [deleted]

      [–]i_Hate_us 1 point2 points  (2 children)

      TRAPS ARENT GAY

      [–][deleted]  (1 child)

      [deleted]

        [–]i_Hate_us 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        yes i think so.

        [–]dingleburry_joe 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        lol

        [–]WorldNewPilla 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        RemindMe! 1 Day

        [–]astrae_research 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Very curious about any detailed answers from rp men who got their kids very recently

        [–]beginner_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Why would you need marriage to make a kid?

        Of course you need to live in the right state/country that does not know common law marriage else not marrying is near pointless. And even then you have 0 influence on new laws passed. For example where I live, a year a go a new law was in effect that the father must not only pay child support to the mother but also pay her a child care fee. (basically alimony). .but only if she takes care full time, hence it's essential to get shared custody. If you take care 50% of the time you owe her nothing. Still this is obviously retarded as the amount you need to pay is far greater than daycare. So you pay her $2000 a month, she then spends that for day care and works full time meaning she gets same income and same pension + $2000 from kids dad. This is called "Fair" and "equal". Yeah, right...

        Still it's better to no marry because it will save you cost of lawyers and most importantly all your savings especially your pension is 100% yours. Also a very important aspect of not being married is, that the kid is not by default yours. So basically you don't sign the documents acknowledging fatherhood without a paternity test. If she goes to court, they will order a test but your vetting must have sucked if it goes this far.

        obviously you need to tell her that before you try to have a kid. Among others things like what you guys would do if the fetus turns out to have a defect like down syndrome (abortion obviously, but well you guys must be aligned BEFORE the fact). Of course she can still change her mind...So your vetting must be ubergood.

        [–]boy_named_su 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Its called Dread Game and Bitch Management if that helps

        [–]FlyingSexistPig 0 points1 point  (3 children)

        You don't have to be married to have kids. There are lots and lots of single moms out there. You can be a dad and see your kids every day and still never be married.

        She'll cry, she'll plead, she'll beg to get married. But if she wants kids and she's with you, she'll have your kids even if you're not married.

        You never have to get a marriage contract signed. If you don't, then legally you're not married. It's not the overt part of marriage that's the problem (commitment, cohabitation, kids), it's the covert part (child support, alimony, divorce rape). When you marry someone, you're signing up for the first part, but the state fucks you and signs you up for the second part too.

        [–]Losingsteamfast 0 points1 point  (2 children)

        That doesnt matter because once kids are involved it's all out the window. If things go south you're still on the hook for support payments.

        [–]FlyingSexistPig 0 points1 point  (1 child)

        You're missing the point. This guy wants to raise kids.

        If you don't want kids, then don't follow the advice of this post.

        [–]Losingsteamfast 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Yeah I get it. I'm saying there's no way of having kids in a two parent household without the risk of a judge slapping an order for you to give half your income away for the next 18 years. If you want to be a dad in a two parent household you have to just accept the risk.

        [–]Zanford 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        1. Raise kids w/o getting married. You could still end up on the hook for child support if it falls through ofc, but that's better than child support + alimony + legal costs of divorce. Consult with an attorney in your geography about whether you might get declared common law married anyway tho.

        2. Move to a country which is culturally or legally more favorable.

        3. Shack up with someone much wealthier (you might still owe child support if it falls through; look that up)

        4. Most importantly, be attractive and have game so that you have hand in the relationship and things are less likely to fall through (and if they do, be on your terms)

        [–]Freenorthman 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Become gay, find a good dude, adopt kid. The only way i see

        [–]yesbuthereswhy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        I just vetted my wife really well. If you have any questions feel free to ask.

        [–]Lambdal7 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        There's this myth going around on trp that prenups don't work.

        That's not true. A prenup is only thrown out of court under very rare circumstances, whoch would nullify any other contract.

        99.9% of prenups hold up. Happy to reconsider if someone has opposing numbers.

        [–]Rene-Girard 0 points1 point  (2 children)

        Even if you live alone your whole life you should always keep your assets protected. Never own real estate directly in your name, that is company property and the company is owned by a foreign trust. Never even think about holding any liquid assets of value where it can be touched by the government. There should be nothing to your name in case of a divorce.

        Make kids without marrying. Be prepared there's about a 90% chance she will leave. Get shared custody, make sure the kids want to stay with you when they're old enough to chose (shouldn't be hard). Find a younger girl and do it again.

        [–]Helpcalculus 3 points4 points  (1 child)

        Be prepared there's about a 90% chance she will leave

        Find a younger girl and do it again.

        What?

        [–]Rene-Girard 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        If you have kids with a girl and she leaves / divorces when the kids are adolescent or teenagers - like almost all western women will do as of today 2018. Then you should do this:

        1. Get full or shared custody of your children.
        2. Find a new girl that is younger and make more children with her.

        [–]rigbed -4 points-3 points  (4 children)

        You can’t turn a hoe into a housewife. So turn a housewife into a hoe. Pimp her out make money. Bang other women. Or just do what a lot of couples do and swing.

        [–]turtlings 6 points7 points  (0 children)

        bruh

        [–]ppanthero 3 points4 points  (2 children)

        Lol, i am pretty sure swinging has led to more adverse outcomes for men in marriages than to good.

        [–]rigbed -1 points0 points  (0 children)

        Most men are beta

        [–]rigbed -1 points0 points  (0 children)

        Most men are beta

        [–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

        Why do people believe that marriage is somehow a necessity to have children?

        I don't get it.

        Given the option between paying the mother of your children to leave you and not doing...... which would you choose? Seems so obvious to me.

        Why does this question keep getting asked?