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TRP made my life more successful, but I'm depressed as ever (self.asktrp)

submitted by [deleted]

I swallowed the red pill many years ago but didn't start applying it until about 6 months ago. I have completely changed my life in all areas (lifting, fucking, confidence, dressing well, leadership etc). I've had many amazing benefits:

  • women treat me much better

  • my friends respect me and have started to copy me

  • I am popular at work and get rapidly promoted

  • People copy me and try to get involved in my in-jokes

  • Nobody fucks with me

  • I am significantly calmer and in control at all times

  • I don't give a shit what people think of me

  • People in general respect me and treat me well

  • I am proud of myself

This is all fantastic. However, there have been substantial downsides that have been depressing me a lot:

  • I am constantly scheming and planning how to succeed socially

  • Since I am always gaming I can never be myself around girls

  • Constant guilt for manipulating people

  • A feeling of being disconnected from everyone else

  • My best friend hates the new me, confessed to me he is jealous, and is trying to turn my friends against me

  • Depressed knowing women only care about me for what they can get out of me

  • Constantly angry, disenchanted, and in my head about the true nature of women

It's as if swallowing the pill and adopting dark triad characteristics has made me substantially more successful on the surface, but is rotting me on the inside. I'm not sure how to approach this feeling and fix it. I feel like a sociopath.


[–]Aaren_Augustine 107 points108 points  (8 children)

First five bullets are based in external validation. 12 in total. So now you've just realized you have to find acceptance in yourself as no one can do that job for you.

is rotting me on the inside

Part of the take away I get from Rollo's Mental Point of Origin is to learn to be enough for yourself. To be the very source of emotions you look to others to fill. As they can't. And nobody wants your responsibilities; they have their own.

When you were physically weak, did you look for a guy at the gym to lift the weight for you? Why do you think being mentally weak is somehow NOT your responsibility to fix?

Stop skipping brain day.

[–]Drethetruth 66 points67 points  (0 children)

“ stop skipping brainday” what a savage LOOOL

[–]Psychocist 13 points14 points  (1 child)

Building on from this excellent answer about the first set of bullets, the second set imply a sort of alienation due to robotic behaviour.

What I mean by this OP is that you have started this journey by following the advice of others, and taken some prescribed actions, but now feel like you're playing a role. Like you said "can never be myself around girls". Who is yourself? Your old, dis-empowered loser self? Or do you feel this is all an act and it is taxing you to keep it up? That might explain why you are finding it hard to genuinely connect with people.

I've been in some of these places before. If you base your sense of worth or value on your success with women, you're going to have a very bad time. You will age and you will become desireless. Stop measuring your self-worth at all -- even the act of measuring it puts it into question.

My advice: scale it back, focus on your purpose, your mission, get to work and stop trying to game so much. Stop trying to get better at your relationships with women, and start focusing on the relationship with yourself. Allow yourself to become a little worse with women - you might just find this blase approach works even better. As a bonus, it gives you more time to focus on things that actually matter.

[–]Aaren_Augustine 1 point2 points  (0 children)

He learned enough to robot that shit and fool others. Yes! Never internalized it. Thus never truly changed. Only hoped others would treat him differently.

[–]ATrashMan 2 points3 points  (0 children)

O.O

[–]danhakimi 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Yeah, that's right -- dude comes here depressed, looking for help, and you tell him to just nut up and make himself happier. It's not like that's classically the worst response to depression ever, or anything.

[–]Aaren_Augustine 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Don't be a victim

[–]danhakimi 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I wasn't being a victim, I was telling you that your advice is shitty. You offer nothing in the affirmative, you just tell him what not to do. And you blur the line between "you can't find fulfillment through other people," which is fine, and "nobody else can possibly help you" which is probably the worst advice you can give.

[–]aoe2redditacc 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Stop skipping brain day...

THE BEST ANSWER ON TRP EVER.

[–]Velebit 17 points18 points  (0 children)

it's about micro vs macro

you are a collectivist in your heart

let me explain, the advice here is largely a micro approach or an individualist approach.

here is a good example in a super simplified version: lie and steal might work for an individual but if everyone does it, that means chaos, when there is chaos, society reacts by grouping around a tyrant who will restore order by brutality

this is how we humans evolved, we are neither loner animals like tigers nor are we mindless ants, we have both individual, family, tribal and even specie wide identities and loyalties

your disgust with your "new self" if merely an expected, normal reaction to a hyperindividualist ideology that you intrinsically feel is off and should not be practiced

however remember what brought you here or wherever you found this philosophy in the first place, the collapse of collectivist values and norms

edit: you have to decide do you want to follow a one man one world attitude or try to change the society you live in, where you can be yourself more and play pretendies less, if you decide you have no willpower to fight for a collective better future, than you have your dillema solved, keep doing what you are doing and dont complain, not even inside your own mind

[–]2chazthundergut 12 points13 points  (2 children)

You've mastered the surface level of TRP but missed the deepest, underlying conclusion.

You are still stuck in the "game" and measuring your success based on other people's opinions of you. This is okay in the beginning, especially for guys who previously had no success with women or climbing the social hierarchy. Applying tactics can get you rolling in the right direction, but eventually you're going to need to do the REAL work. And you are now at this stage in your journey. It's not about chicks or getting laid anymore.

The real Red Pill is realizing that YOU are enough. You don't need validation from others. Your value as a man and as a person comes from within.

Getting to this point will catapult you forward in ways you can't imagine. This is true non-neediness.

When you are truly self-validating, you can live as your authentic self. You won't feel guilt or shame, because you won't be doing things that aren't true to you. You won't lie or manipulate people. You will allow yourself to be vulnerable by being honest and wearing no masks. This is so attractive to women that you're not going to believe it.

HOWEVER: the pitfall in all this is guys who think that "being yourself" means that they can be needy and desperate and losers who sit around and play videogames all day. That's not what this means. Being yourself means to understand your burden as a man, accept it, and willingly bear it. It means to understand the nature of women (their real nature and not what you wish they were), and accept them for who they are and keep them in the appropriate place in your life. It means that you must realize that your life as a man is 100% your responsibility, and to relish in the struggle and discipline it takes to create the life of your dreams. It means becoming the best version of yourself, not for anyone else, but because being the best version of yourself is what you desire.

When you BECOME the prize, all of the games and manipulation and lying and tactics go out the window. You'll still need to stay vigilant against allowing your idealization of women from clouding your judgement. And you'll still need to accept the harsh truths of reality and bear the burden of manhood proudly. Bit within this reality, you will be authentic and self-validating and completely non-needy. And the results will be staggering.

[–]LordThunderbolt 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's very hard for him to internalize considering all we do is talk about women. Look around.

[–]BusterVadge 7 points8 points  (0 children)

You need a life's mission that's more challenging or exciting that gets you up early in the morning and keeps you up late at night.

Mine is to retire in my 50's with a house on the lake, parties on the weekends, setting an example for my daughters of what a man should be, learning new skills like auto restoration, being buff as I grow old, etc....

The key is to find something that excites you to think about, and excites you even more when your actions bring you closer to the life you dream about.

Depression is almost always caused by the lack of being able to imagine a compelling future.

Seems like you're focusing too much on external aspects of your life than you are planning your mission.

[–]htbf 11 points12 points  (2 children)

I have the EXACT same issues. I can't take off the glasses and I see things for what they are. I look at friends and I judge their frame, their game. I see ladies, friends' GFs, boss' wives and automatically, I start analyzing the dynamic.

Any girl, I flirt with until I reach that sexual tension that I wasn't even looking for, just doing it for kicks. And find myself in position where I'm getting "inappropriate" with girls in relationships with people I "care" about.

I'm not angry though. I cannot be angry at things that are. I'm proud of myself instead for being able to see with such clarity. It ruins a lot of illusions but I think I had my share of those back in the days.

Try and focus on positive feelings. Try helping people less fortunate than you. Not everyone is scheming their way to the top and you can find solace in how generous and kind and warm human beings can be to each other.

And you need to read about philosophy and meditation to cope with reality better.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Fuck, I do that aswell. I flirt with girls just to prove to myself that I can do it successfully. I hate that I do it but I'm addicted to the validation it gives me. Its gotten to the point where I have female orbiters.

[–]Velebit -1 points0 points  (0 children)

ANY girl, YOU flirt with you reach what you JUDGE to be sexual tension. Nice humblebrag.

[–]InformalCriticism 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I think it's a matter of finding good male friends. You're probably in need of someone you think you can say anything to without judgment, and while CBTs can serve this role, there's not much better than hanging out with some friends you can rely on for life.

Cutting back in order to make those social connections by picking up a social hobby might be your best bet. This coming year is probably where I'll be doing that, either joining ultimate frisbee, or bowling, or soccer, just something where you have to learn people's names and people get to know you while exercising is going to tap into the tribal evolutionary framework in which we all fall.

[–]Endorsed Contributor: "The Court Jester"GayLubeOil 7 points8 points  (17 children)

Sounds like you are perceiving your Red Pill actions in a Blue Pill way. In other words you never took the Red Pill. You did what every Normy does. You skimmed the theory on why and applied the practical advice without consideration.

[–]Governor_Humphries 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Practical application comes first, though. I have a notebook with the best RP stuff I have gleaned from various sources, and in there I have this nugget:

Changes in thinking don’t lead to changes in behavior; changes in behavior lead to changes in thinking.

Understanding is not the same thing as implementing.

Understanding is not even necessary! You can drive a car without knowing how a carburetor works.

If you were to say OP is not fully Red Pill yet, I'd agree. But he's taking the right path to get there. You can't develop the mentality before you start practicing the behaviors.

[–]SorcererKing 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Dead on. This guy is somewhere between "sprinkle some alpha on it" and "red pill means for blue pill ends."

[–]htbf 0 points1 point  (14 children)

Nonsense.

[–]Endorsed Contributor: "The Court Jester"GayLubeOil 4 points5 points  (13 children)

If you can perform the action while despising the action you lack belief in the action.

[–]htbf 7 points8 points  (12 children)

He's going through a very normal phase of existentialism. When you feel all-knowing and all-powerful through your knowledge of TRP and actualization of it, you go naturally through this. You find yourself very distant from everyone, just because you can see reality and they don't. They are prisoner of the cave and you are the philosopher free of imaginary bonds.

So no, he didn't necessarily skim through the theory. There is not much in the theory that prepares you for the isolation you will feel as a top tier man. There is not much in the theory that will open your eyes to other worthy things you can focus on. And no matter how RP you are, it is NOT easy to entertain the dualistic persona : what you show to the world and how you interpret everything in your mind.

[–]1redhawkes 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It's called cognitive dissonance, or in some cases, imposter syndrome.

It takes time to internalize the tenets, but you actually have to do instead of mentally masturbate.

[–]Endorsed Contributor: "The Court Jester"GayLubeOil -4 points-3 points  (1 child)

The whole of Red Pill theory is about seeing the reality that others can't. That's actually the meaning of the Red Pill. Maybe if you read into the Red Pill you would know that?

Hay guis I read read pill but nothing could prepair me for the red pill not even the red pill. Cool. Story. Bro.

[–]htbf 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Yeah, you're beside the point. As always. Merry Christmas GLO.

[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorRian_Stone -3 points-2 points  (8 children)

wut?

Not at all.

prepares you for the isolation you will feel as a top tier man.

this is daydreaming. one hasn't taken anything if he's still fantasizing about being high quality

[–]htbf 1 point2 points  (7 children)

What are you talking about?

[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorRian_Stone -1 points0 points  (6 children)

your comment is garbage. GLO is 100% right.

[–]htbf 0 points1 point  (5 children)

He is not.

[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorRian_Stone -1 points0 points  (4 children)

Keep daydreaming about the one day when you're valuable then.

[–]htbf 2 points3 points  (3 children)

This is not a conversation. This is just ad-hominem galore. Why are you even bothering ?

[–]egoissuffering 2 points3 points  (0 children)

you're only with a woman bc of what you can get out of her, sex kids housewife etc. All relationships have some transaction to them. Women play the game and so are you. Stop treating people as a means to an end.

[–]ibeenpoppinpillies 5 points6 points  (0 children)

What’s the point of this successful outside shell if you can’t live with what’s inside?

Don’t take TRP as gospel, make the changes you need to make to be happy and keep the rest.

[–]danhakimi 1 point2 points  (1 child)

If you're not happy, then your life is not more successful, now is it?

Stop doing what people tell you to do, and what seems like it works, and start doing what makes you happy -- and not in the short-term, pleasured sense, but in the long-term, fulfilled sense.

Viktor Frankl talks a lot about fulfilment in Man's Search for Meaning. You may also care to study the Nicomachean Ethics by Aristotle: he says that the greatest good is the pleasure you get from contemplating a life well-lived.

There's no reason to think that being an asshole as trp suggests will make you happier. The reason "swallowing" the pill is hard is because it's wrong. Get out of this sub before they lead you further down this shitty rabbit hole.

[–]WikiTextBot 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Man's Search for Meaning

Man's Search for Meaning is a 1946 book by Viktor Frankl chronicling his experiences as an Auschwitz concentration camp inmate during World War II, and describing his psychotherapeutic method, which involved identifying a purpose in life to feel positively about, and then immersively imagining that outcome. According to Frankl, the way a prisoner imagined the future affected his longevity. The book intends to answer the question "How was everyday life in a concentration camp reflected in the mind of the average prisoner?" Part One constitutes Frankl's analysis of his experiences in the concentration camps, while Part Two introduces his ideas of meaning and his theory called logotherapy.

According to a survey conducted by the Book-of-the-Month Club and the Library of Congress, Man's Search for Meaning belongs to a list of "the ten most influential books in the United States." At the time of the author's death in 1997, the book had sold over 10 million copies and had been translated into 24 languages.


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[–]Danzzo36 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Because this is just another flawed philosophy. There's only one true path to lasting peace and happiness, and thats Christianity.

[–]Juan-San 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Since I am always gaming I can never be myself around girls

The "being yourself" is a myth. The only moment you can truly be yourself around a girl is when you've faked it until you made it.

Constant guilt for manipulating people

Survivor's guilt in a "hunt or be hunted" scenario.

A feeling of being disconnected from everyone else

My best friend hates the new me, confessed to me he is jealous, and is trying to turn my friends against me

Crabs in a bucket. Improve your friendships. If this guy is trying to compromise your position, he is not a friend. Find better ones, people with hobbies and goals similar to yours, and that will stop.

Depressed knowing women only care about me for what they can get out of me

Constantly angry, disenchanted, and in my head about the true nature of women

You're aware of the pill but you haven't internalized it. You shouldn't get mad at a dog barking at you when you enter it's teritory, the same way you shouldn't get mad at women doing what evolution prepared them to do. It's in their nature. It's something we must accept, and prepare ourselves to deal with, or take the way out and go full MGTOW

Also, all kinds of relationships could be seen as economical transactions. You offer something (be it money, good sex, knowledge, friendship, loyalty or whatever) and the other person offers something too.

Good personal relationships involve people that offer what the other person wants, and receive what they want. This is pretty much subjective, and why many romantic relationships fail, because one is offering a lot but the other perceives it as not enough or unwanted.

Have you read Meditations by Marcus Aurelius? How's your stoicism going? I believe a stoic outlook on life is vital in order not to become an hero nowadays.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Since I am always gaming I can never be myself around girls

Once you get good, you can stop the games and it all still works. It's weird. You have to keep TRYING, the effort doesn't stop, but you can drop the games, the rush, the pressure and you can be more yourself. Ease off a bit. It'll all still work. You can always bring it back if you need to, but for now try being yourself more - by which I mean less thinking about it. If this fails, change back.

Depressed knowing women only care about me for what they can get out of me / Constantly angry, disenchanted, and in my head about the true nature of women

Yeah.... this really is a thing. All of it OP.... I can relate.

You make it all work, but it doesn't really change how you feel about anything. You don't mention fitness, lifting, and doing things for yourself. Do you have these things handled?

[–]FireTempered 0 points1 point  (1 child)

The blue dream dies hard. You are not rotting, you are changing. You have as yet to fully accept the reality of the "terms of service" of living in the real world.

Don't get depressed when you find out water is wet and fire is hot. Get over it and seek to understand.

[–]FireTempered 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Real men compete. FUCKTARDS DELETE.

[–]know_your_path 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You never swallowed the red pill, you're still trying to prove something that doesn't exist, you're egotistical, and you're angry about something because you expect it to be something it's not because you want to control it

And the delusion that this is the red pill, or reality and the acceptance of it, is clashing with what you know to be right and are denying. We are social creatures, some of us are born cheaters, and you are not. Be you, be useful, and be happy. You're not useful at all right now, you're denying your purpose and hurting others to forward an illusion.

[–]bob13bob 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ao

[–]bob13bob 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Some of us have also realized this and we don't make women the measure of our success.

How many women do you really need to game,. Be the man you want and you'll do well enough.

[–]hb8only 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I am constantly scheming and planning how to succeed socially

it's what to be adult male

Since I am always gaming I can never be myself around girls

then you need to find out why real you is not enough for them

Constant guilt for manipulating people

like they don't manipulate you at all???

A feeling of being disconnected from everyone else

you was born alone and you will die alone..

My best friend hates the new me, confessed to me he is jealous, and is trying to turn my friends against me

crabs in the bucket mentality..

Depressed knowing women only care about me for what they can get out of me

..but you are a fucking snowflake right? you don't care at all about her looks? you just love her for her right? LOL

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

you get what you give. your manipulative interactions in life eventually lead you to be surrounded by people who are just as manipulative as well - everyone else is going to leave. there are plenty of great men and women out there as well. treat people well. don’t let trp stamp out your empathy, it gives life depth and it allows you to connect with people.

[–]Endorsed Contributormallardcove -5 points-4 points  (1 child)

This post reeks of autism. Your problem is you made TRP your religion instead of just guidelines to help you in life.

[–]know_your_path 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's about the most useless way of saying the right thing