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I have so much trouble holding frame. (self.asktrp)

submitted by send_it_for_the_boys

I’ve been on TRP for close to 6 months I’d say. I’ve learned a lot, practiced a lot, built up a lot of confidence and knowledge. But I can’t hold my frame..not just around girls. Everybody, my managers at work, guys that are bigger then me and talk louder and quicker then me. For a few weeks I’ll be doing good, feeling super confident and just ultimate idgaf mode and hitting PRs in the gym, flirting with women. Sometimes I’m extremely quick with jokes and words And then it’s like I wake up one day and I forget how, forget what to say back to people and how to say things, I fucking lose it. I get quiet I lose wittiness, people start making remarks towards me assuming I’m pissed off and I’m not but I don’t even know how to respond to those type of things I’ve always been a shy person until I get to know people, and I’ve always had trouble when being put “on the spot” People have done it to me my whole life but the past few months I’ve really opened it up. But I keep going through these stages of anger and it’s like my self esteem levels just go negative. I want to end this shit I want to come out of this, I want to become the best possible me I can be. If anybody has had similar experiences any advice would be obliged.


[–]Parahnah 41 points42 points  (4 children)

Everybody has good and bad days, your mood can go up and down, or it could be a chemical imbalance issue. There are lots of possible reasons, but that's not so important. What's important is that you recognise it and how you handle it. Take a break on your off days.. Eat a better diet to keep you more balanced. See a Dr about it. But don't give up.

[–]Kionjabb 8 points9 points  (2 children)

This so much. Like OP has stated there are “off” days. I have really been paying attention to some factors that attribute to mine. This is what I found: bad social skills come from anxiety. Anxiety can come from bad sleep, drinking and smoking a lot (addiction occurs because you get anxious and need your fix), not drinking enough caffeine (caffeine improves my social skills bc I’m more sharp and alert), not working out often, busting nuts in your hand all day, eating a lot of sugars and junk food and inversely not eating anything at all. I get jittery when I don’t have enough carbs or fat for the day. Low fats are shown to tank T levels, low T levels = high anxiety = bad social skills

On the other side I feel great socially when: I prepare for my day everyday. Meaning I work out before work (5x/wk), meditate in morning and yoga at night. Making sure I don’t watch porn and bust nuts all day (I nofap hard mode), I eat a salad a day, drink gallon water per day, meal prep so I don’t have a crash which affects my mood which snowballs into bad social skills (not talkative/approachable).

Anyways I do most if not all of these things on a daily basis and I have drastically reduced my shitty moods. I feel vibrant AF and it makes me outgoing and happy in social interactions. This helps my frame knowing I am doing all of These small things that keep me sharp and energized for the day.

My only bad vice is that I have been drinking lots of Diet Coke because the caffeine in it really works well for me. When I drink coffee I get jittery and anxious. I’m trying to find an alternative to Diet Coke that works for me.. it’s kind of my next experiment. But once you know your body like this you can operate on a superhuman level and stand out from the pack imo

[–]cenie 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Try drinking tea.

[–]SAPPHIREAURA 1 point2 points  (0 children)

“Busting nuts in your hand “ damn lol that keeps it real wow

[–]Yoasted 4 points5 points  (0 children)

But don't give up.

Don't you fucking give up OP

[–]Nitsujsith 20 points21 points  (6 children)

Another thought when dealing with bullies/ people trying to power play you.

If you would not get on all fours for that person physically. Why do it mentally?

[–]resnine 2 points3 points  (5 children)

How do you punish them and show they you are to be power played with?

[–]MKR63 8 points9 points  (3 children)

Don’t give them any emotional reaction. You can’t be bullied mentally if you just don’t give a fuck. Actually if that dude says something and you can flip the tables on him, he will feel very embarrassed and stupid and will likely never fuck with you again. Good luck I hate fucking bullies even though I kind of was one myself.

[–]resnine 2 points3 points  (2 children)

There is a lot of power in not caring what other people think about you, I am starting to realize that now. Not caring surprisingly holds a huge amount of power, and actually takes away the power people have over you. People can't fuck with your frame if you don't care what they think or anything they are doing/saying.

[–]MKR63 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Exactly my friend, all about the frame. Unless it gets physical which is best to avoid.

[–]resnine 0 points1 point  (0 children)

At that point, I let them do something physical first then defend according to my means.

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (5 children)

Here's a thought... consider charting these 'lapses' against other elements in your life like blood sugar, caffeine intake, diet and quality of sleep - parse the pattern and maybe find a clue (because there are so many variables that can affect our general 'sharpness' - some we are aware of, others we seldom suspect).

If that doesn't bear fruit, don't panic... as long as your wins outnumber your losses and you aren't totally miserable, then carry on in earnest.

Part of the reason it is called 'holding frame' is because it is not everyone's factory pre-set. It doesn't always come naturally... the struggle is to make sure that one day it does - until then there will be ups and downs.

[–]Kionjabb 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Check out my comment brotha I wrote the same thing. Glad someone else is woke about it. Mainly about the blood sugar thing though.. if you aren’t eating enough carbs and fats then it ranks and you get anxious as fuck. This snowballs into social life. It’s important to split your meals throughout the day and not bulk it all together into one huge breakfast or one huge dinner. I feel most people make this mistake because they too “busy” blah blah

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well said... also, I think OP said he was lifting on the regular, which adds a whole other dimension to that same category too.

The 'busy' factor is a favourite cop-out for anything physical... I know that the whole OMAD philosophy has its adherents, but I prefer your way of doing things.

[–]send_it_for_the_boys[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Never even thought about it, but I currently work night shift. And since I made the switch my sleep and caffeine intake is pretty bad sometimes. I’ve also noticed my memory has gotten foggy. I work in a confined area alone so I have 10 hours to over think in my head all night.

[–]Kionjabb 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is why I love social jobs that involve human interaction. I hate warehouse and stocking jobs.. it will make you miserable. I don’t care if I’m being paid 50 an hour I would rather take a social job at 35 an hour and enjoy my life both at work and out of it. This is why I don’t like IT or computer jobs as a career.. everyone is different though some people have people and would rather be alone which is respectable

[–]BurnieSlander 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Do whatever you have to do to get off night shift. Find a new job if you have to. Night shift will suck the life out of you.

[–]1redhawkes 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Six months is not enough for your subconscious mind to reprogram and forget the old patterns (habits) that you've been doing your whole life.

This happens to everyone at first, then as you slowly change your habits, they sink in your subconscience and you internalize them.

The only answer is to keep doing what you're doing, it's like mastering something, you need time and practicing.

Get into meditation if you're not already, it helps you to be present and aware of this thoughts, then just return to your frame.

[–]philbignig 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Im like this when im getting little sleep, or in a calorie deficit

[–]send_it_for_the_boys[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You know that seems pretty reasonable. I work night shifts right now and my sleep and eating habits change up quite a bit.

[–]cl3537 8 points9 points  (1 child)

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt.

'Mark Twain

There is nothing wrong with being quiet at times, just keep positive body language and eye contact. The smartest people listen more than they speak and their words are considered powerful.

[–]AlfredKinsey 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is good advice for staying quiet without appearing shy or submissive. This mode of communication at social gatherings helps me maintain my energy levels and pay attention to dynamics around me, too.

[–]Mikesnm 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Simply decide that you’re gonna get there. Correct your frame every time you get off course. Over and over and over. Then over again. This is your life. It’s gonna take a long time to reprogram. But if you persist, relentlessly, I promise you’ll became that guy.

[–]Endorsed Contributorbalalasaurus 2 points3 points  (0 children)

These things take time. Your awakening is just one step in a larger journey. The sooner you understand that and accept it, the quicker you’ll grow.

There will be days when you feel like you’re regressing. Days when you feel like your progress has been for nothing. This is entirely normal and happens even to the most seasoned RP vets. It’s a consequence of being aware.

Key to this is to remind yourself that it is a continual process of growth and rebuilding. That above all you are doing this to be the best version of yourself and not for anyone’s whim or pleasure. It will not be easy, believe me I know. But the alternative is to live in BP delusion. Something I’d wager you do not want.

[–]Nitsujsith 7 points8 points  (2 children)

A few things to think about. Life is not linear, there is always opposites and life fluctuates between spectrums Day/Night On/Off Warm/Cold Summer/Winter Male/Female Chaos/Order Etc

Don’t expect to be Chad Thundercock 24/7. An example of this is myself. Some times Im reserved and calm other times I am a social psycopath. Sometimes I have women in my life sometimes I dont (Stoicism). The best thing you could do is have some compassion for yourself & try some of these things.

-Hypnosis Affirmations -Visualization -Bioenergetics/deepening voice (Elliot Hulse)

-Letting go of trying to one up people unless they challenge/shit test you -Getting Physically stronger

-Changing your idea of who you are. This may be the biggest thing. Your body will physically and mentally reject when you try to do this. Thats why hypnosis and affirmations work.

If Self Improvement is doing more harm than good. Let all that shit go and dont try to improve your life. You will either feel inadequate because you have to do all these things to feel a certain way or feel good enough already and dont need to do anything. Very complex topic.

To conclude,

The only limit you have in life, is the one you set on yourself.

Let that sentence sink in, read it over and over. ^

[–]Original_Username7 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Dude, I’d echo a lot of the wisdom you share here. You sound like someone who’s gotten a pretty good understanding of how life works.

[–]Nitsujsith 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I appreciate that, I have 2 posts on TheRedPill. I wouldn’t say I got everything figured out. I just enjoy learning from the best people and making connections between things. I’ll post more soon, I have a few ideas already in my head.

[–]resnine 8 points9 points  (0 children)

It's called depression, it happens to all of us. Also you should realize as an introvert you charge your batteries when you are alone and those batteries get drained when you are out with people. Some days your batteries will be fully charged and you'll be able to go up to chicks and flirt like there's no tomorrow. Then the next day your batteries are going to be drained from all that stimulation. You really got to look at life as a battery at times, especially when you are an introvert.

[–]norolemod3l 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I can relate

[–]WontonSoup77 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Who can relate wooo

[–]TimPartendale 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The best way to hold frame when you fear you can’t is to be silent and not get emotional. You can always reassess or reevaluate most social situations at a later time.

Another default is to be amused, smile/grin and laugh at most situations. Although when done inappropriately, you’ll look nervous or foolish. So use this one a bit more cautiously.

[–]Original_Username7 2 points3 points  (3 children)

You may be an introvert and/or a High Sensitive Person (hsperson.com). This in no way means you can't be outgoing, dominant, alpha and hold frame, you just may need to keep track of your energy levels and better understand how your nervous system works. I'm this way and, through scheduling, I make sure I'm rested up, have good self care, and good thought habits, so that when I want to be on my social game, i dominate. No one believes me when I tell them I'm not an extrovert. If this is you too, in some ways this can be a superpower, you can be really good at reading people, and thereby, influencing them.

[–]send_it_for_the_boys[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

What do you mean by “keep track of energy levels” like the days I’m feeling my top notch or the things that make me?

[–]Original_Username7 0 points1 point  (1 child)

For me, I know that if I go to a big gathering and be the life of the party, that it will overstimulate me with all of the back and forth and social data, and that I will need a good nights rest, a day of quiet/solo time, in some comfortable surroundings, reading a book and such, to disengage/de-stimulate from all of the social interactions I had, and recharge the energy I expended being outgoing. My natural state is probably just to be a thoughtful/reserved bystander, but I love being way more than that when I can because of all of the social benefits that come from it. I can actually mark on a calendar what days I will be "on" (big meeting, important date, big party), and then schedule nothing the next day so I can chill, rest up, and return to my baseline. Hopefully my info helps, happy to answer questions. It sounds to me like you have the talent to be "alpha" and outgoing, and then, because you may not be aware of what's happening to physiologically, it just catches up to you, you run out of energy, and then you crash/get choked up in the moment, having expended all your energy. Try hiding out for a few days by yourself doing things you love, and see if you can't then bounce back and hold frame, be dominant, and roll with whatever stuff comes at you.

[–]send_it_for_the_boys[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This stuff makes sense, there’s been a few weekends I’d go out with friends and talk to girls and dance with them and get numbers, and make friends with everybody and think nothing of it. Say I do the same thing the next night, I just can’t be the same person i was, I can’t even get the same body language, posture going I had and people think I’m being a douche, which I’m really just like you said “probably used up in need of a reboot”. I’ll give it a try. Resting and eating could be my biggest reason though, I work night shift. So, my resting and eating gets really messed up throughout the week, and the weekends I have the choice to either stay on my shift and waste the daylight and hope I can get some friends around to do things at night. Or, I have to lose lots of sleep in order to live my life. With all this being talked about it’s starting to add up that my job could be affecting me a lot more than I had thought.

[–]dulkemaru51 2 points3 points  (1 child)

People have done it to me my whole life but the past few months I’ve really opened it up

So there's progress.

I want to end this shit I want to come out of this, I want to become the best possible me I can be

Going forward.

any advice would be obliged

Keep going.

[–]send_it_for_the_boys[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Short and very simple but this one really speaks out to me. Thanks!

[–]neoda1 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Cant wait for a person to really answer this bc i can be on the boat just like you sometimes. Its less and less everyday but i think its just playing over time and trying to get it naturally. Learning everyday .

[–]AlfredKinsey 1 point2 points  (0 children)

So, let's try to tackle this on a lower level, i.e. rather than trying to fix your frame, let's works on the smaller components of said "frame," which is a horribly abstract thing, anyway.

First: you say that you have self-esteem trouble, so work on your self-esteem. Don't only practice positive self image when you are in those situations you find stressful: being around bugger dude's, being around women, whatever. The achievements in the beginning of your post should be in your back pocket when you get down in yourself.

Second: look at the situations you described. Maybe make a list of specific situations you find stressful. Maybe rank them based on level of fear and importance of improving your response. Expose yourself to these stimuli, gradually if you have to.

Finally: this is bit broader, but I think good, advice about frame.... You mentioned thinking of what to say next. I'm sure there is nuance to this statement and I don't know your life, but... in my opinion, the strongest energy is more relaxed and confident than this.

Don't be thinking or trying too hard. If you are, you're probably not in a flow state. Of course, faking it and working hard is part of the journey, but it is important to understand that a more outcome independent attitude is sexy. Selfish bonus: it makes socialising less stressful for YOU.

Also gonna reflect "people have always done this to me" and "anger" back at you. These attitudes are going to plug up your fun-loving self. Victimhood and anger make for a bad social foundation that will poison your interactions.

[–]Dextorian 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Listen bro, these things take time! Just keep noting when you lapse on frame! If you feel like your struggling visualise a moment when you did hold your frame! Feels good right! Keep doing that, what a lot of people don’t say is listen your going to fail sometimes. just get back up dust yourself off and jump back on and ride that shit into submission!

[–]MuhTriggersGuise 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Trying to perform to impress women is being in their frame. Your frame should be having fun getting to bs with people and joke around, not trying to impress random skirts. Treating women's attention as a competition to be won is not maintaining frame, and is not recognizing yourself as the prize.

[–]send_it_for_the_boys[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I don’t feel like you read my post thoroughly but thanks.!

[–]zboo1h 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Were you raised by a single mom? People who are unfortunate enough to be raised by a single mom usually have a lot of trouble standing their ground, trouble saying "no", because as a child standing your ground or saying "no" to an abusive single mom could potentially get you killed, and over time you learn to internalize that appeasement mechanism and unconsciously apply it to everyone in your life.

Practice saying no. Do it when you least feel capable of it.

[–]send_it_for_the_boys[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I was, I’d see my dad in some weekends and holidays he never really taught me much about standing my ground and handling people. I have been working on the saying no, I grew up doing everything for everyone and leaving no room for myself.

[–]SirAttackHelicopter 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Get back up, dust off, learn from your mistakes, and try again. 6 months is just the tip of the iceberg. The biggest issue with boys growing up in the modern world is their dependence on instant gratification. That needs to be weeded out of your life.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

s And then it’s like I wake up one day and I forget how, forget what to say back to people and how to say things, I fucking lose it.

Takes time to grow into

[–]Elitevaz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I get triggered by certain things as I analyze what people say. I don't know how to explain it, I'll be normal one second, someone will take a jab at me and then it happens. My mind goes into witty mode and I start countering. When they are out of my proximity, I go back to normal.

[–]gunsliquorstrippers 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I have the same problem, and what ALWAYS works for me is getting and staying in state. IE I listen to an Owen cook motivational speech and I’m ready to grab life by the balls

[–]ectoplasmic1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

One thing you can do is observe yourself and study the things that trigger you emotionally. Then ask yourself why they trigger you, and journal the responses. Within time, you'll develop a map of your mind.

Working through those things, is a life-long task. But worthwhile.

[–]imsorted 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Because you’ve got a frame to hold. Learn to not give a shit at all