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How do I do LTRs without being a beta? (self.asktrp)

submitted by [deleted]

I've been lurking for awhile now, read all the sidebar and intro stuff and I still don't really get how exactly you can "win" as a dude in relationships.

I get that women want to fuck alphas when they're younger and when they get older and are getting close to the wall they want beta bux to settle down with and give them security. But then they'll always be considering monkeybranching/cheating with alphas if they get the opportunity because they're just settling for the beta.

So how the actual fuck do you as a male who wants LTRs and doesn't want to have casual sex "succeed" and not end up a beta bux? dark triad traits are not long term healthy relationship traits, they're just traits for fucking sluts. Well I don't want that, I want a relationship down the line with a non-slut, but at the end of the day every girl's been with at least a couple of assholes, even "good girls" and she's going to want to get with a "nice guy" that "treats her better than the assholes" aka she wants a beta.

Most of TRP makes sense to me but at the end of the day it seems to only help out narcissist dudes who just want to nut, not anybody that actually wants a relationship because I can't see a way to NOT be cucked if no matter how great of a man I am, the simple fact that I'm attainable and not mysterious anymore to a girl i'm LTR'ing means I will always be less attractive than the AFs that pass on by.

Are men who want more than just sex basically doomed to be cucked or is there some fundamental misunderstanding I'm having here.


[–]__NOTORIOUS__ 31 points32 points  (45 children)

But then they'll always be considering monkeybranching/cheating with alphas if they get the opportunity because they're just settling for the beta.

Plenty of married alpha's. Rollo Tomassi, the father of TRP, is married.

how the actual fuck do you as a male who wants LTRs and doesn't want to have casual sex "succeed" and not end up a beta bux?

By being alpha entering into a relationship.

It’s not a numbers game, it’s a non-exclusivity game. The goal isn’t racking up as many women as humanly possible in order to sift through the throng and find that one little golden flower. In fact that’s the key to disaster. There is no Quality Woman, that’s an idealization. Some are better than others of course, but you don’t find the perfect woman, you make the perfect woman. There is no needle in the haystack – that is Scarcity / ONEitis thinking – the point is to mold yourself and any woman who you do exclusively end up with into your own frame. This is a process that should come before you commit to exclusivity, not after. The world is filled with guys forever trying to catch up, control the frame and be the Man they should’ve been long before they entered an LTR. They spend the better part of their LTRs/Marriages trying to prove that they deserve their GF’s / Wife’s respect when they’d have done better in letting her come to that conclusion well before the commitment through a healthy dose of competition anxiety. - Rollo Tomassi

The Rationale Male

dark triad traits are not long term healthy relationship traits, they're just traits for fucking sluts. Well I don't want that, I want a relationship down the line with a non-slut,

"Dark Triad" traits (or just alpha traits) are attractive to all women, not just sluts. The difference is, sluts lack self-control and self-respect, so they get used by tons of guys and make irrational choices. The lack of self-control is what makes sluts bad investments. Even when they have a good deal (lesser-alpha), they lack the self-control to resist a higher alpha, throwing away their relationships to chase their hypergamy.

You will never be the most alpha. There will always be someone who's better breeding stock than you. You just have to be alpha enough. As you grow old, you'll likely sacrifice your freedom and independence for family and legacy. You won't be as alpha as you once were, or as other 20 somethings are, but you'll have different priorities, and ideally a women who's wise enough to know she's got good deal.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (43 children)

There's plenty of married alpha's. Rollo Tomassi, the father of TRP is married.

My understanding is that an alpha doesn't settle and the one who's resources get used up is a beta no matter how you spin it. Maybe that's the crux of my misunderstanding of TRP.

"Dark Triad" traits (or just alpha traits) are attractive to all women, not just sluts.

The beginner info clearly states that dark triad traits are not cut out for long term healthy relationships and are basically personality disorders that don't allow them to actually be good partners or even people. So I don't think saying dark triad and alpha are the same thing makes much sense if you're trying to equate alpha with accomplished man rather than fucboi. Being a psychopath or a narcissist is a horrible thing and not going to make any relationship a good one. And even if a quality woman is "attracted", for mating reasons, to a dark triad, it's safe to say she wouldn't have anything to do with a guy like that outside of bad decision or two because a quality woman wouldn't let herself be used by tons of guys as you said. The same way BPD girls are "attractive" to lots of low quality dudes and pamela anderson looking chicks look great for fucking but not relationships. So I don't see the relevancy.

Understand, you will never be the most alpha. There will always be someone who's better breeding stock than you. You just have to be alpha enough.

Well if all women are hypergamous, and I'm not #1, which obviously I won't ever be, then why wouldn't my wife just cheat on me? And even if she doesn't cheat on me the point here is she wants that other guy more than me, so I'm basically a cuck she settled for because she can't do better and got pumped and dumped by "better men" before me by TRP logic. I can safely say in all of my past relationships I was happy with my gf (when it was working out) and I had no intention of trading her in for a better model but it seems that TRP is saying that's what women do 24/7, shop for a better ken doll.

Thank you for your response but I feel there is some fundamental misunderstanding I am having here and a lot of what's in the beginner info/sidebar somewhat contradicts what you are saying from my POV as i've mentioned.

[–]__NOTORIOUS__ 10 points11 points  (30 children)

My understanding is that an alpha doesn't settle and the one who's resources get used up is a beta no matter how you spin it. Maybe that's the crux of my misunderstanding of TRP.

That's binary thinking. There's no single trait that makes you an alpha or a beta. It's more like a collection of traits that put you somewhere on a spectrum. For example there's married beta's (sugar daddies/cucks) and married alpha's (traditional patriarch/guy with side chicks).

Not settling down is an alpha trait no doubt, but as I said, you shouldn't base your life choices on what's most alpha.

And even if a quality woman is "attracted", for mating reasons, to a dark triad, it's safe to say she wouldn't have anything to do with a guy like that outside of bad decision or two because a quality woman wouldn't let herself be used by tons of guys as you said.

I don't want to get into the semantics of "dark-triad" and "alpha", since they overlap a lot.

You could say the same things about an extreme alpha. A "quality women" with self-control would avoid them because they are likely to cheat and use them. If I had a sister, I'd recommend for her to look for a combination of alpha/beta traits in a guy.

Well if all women are hypergamous, and I'm not #1, which obviously I won't ever be, then why wouldn't my wife just cheat on me?

/u/ProtoPill eloquently explains this in an AMA on PPD. Here's the comment chain...

What single thing (red or blue) has you convinced that you can maintain this happy marriage and keep your wife's hypergamy in check for the rest of your life? What does she do to ensure that you don't stray?

Great questions, RedCrayonWizard. Regarding the first question, I think, like most things in life, the truth lies somewhere in the middle. I think my wife won't stray for the "purple pill" idea that, while women are hypergamous (Red Pill), they are also rational (Blue Pill). My wife knows that she has it good. She has everything a woman could want: beautiful children, a loving and assertive husband, a home, vacations, and her philanthropies. She is not going to throw it all away for a random fuck. Regarding the second question, a woman keeps this man around by doing three simple things: (1) unwavering loyalty to me; (2) regular sex and intimacy; and (3) devotion to our home and our children.

.

And even if she doesn't cheat on me the point here is she wants that other guy more than me, so I'm basically a cuck she settled for because she can't do better and got pumped and dumped by "better men" before me by TRP logic.

Nobody said it was easy finding a relationship worthy girl. That's why TRP advocates against marriage. It's likely to fail.

Ideally, you want to be the most alpha your girl has ever experienced.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (29 children)

Thank you for your response, this has cleared up a lot but I still see it all as very bleak.

You could say the same things about an extreme alpha. A "quality women" with self-control would avoid because them because they are likely to cheat and use them. If I had a sister, I'd recommend for her to look for a combination of alpha/beta traits in a guy.

So what are quality beta traits?

Nobody said it was easy finding a relationship worthy girl. That's why TRP advocates against marriage. It's likely to fail. Ideally, you want to be the most alpha your girl has ever experienced.

I'm really starting to question why I'm bothering investing all this time and energy into women when I could just fuck and degrade sluts like my friends. I don't think I'll be happy relationship wise either way. Either I just spend my time on a woman who's with me because she's been used up and/or doesn't know any better because she hasn't experienced better, aka doesn't really love me, or I spend my days non-committing and getting my rocks off to chicks with low self esteem and daddy issues. Fun.

[–]__NOTORIOUS__ 4 points5 points  (28 children)

Thank you for your response, this has cleared up a lot but I still see it all as very bleak.

No problem.

So what are quality beta traits?

Supportive. Respectful. Loving. Caring.

All the shit that will dry up a pussy lol.

I'm really starting to question why I'm bothering investing all this time and energy into women when I could just fuck and degrade sluts like my friends.

You should be emotionally, sexually, and financially non-exclusive at least until your 30's. So go wild. You have all the time in the world to "settle down" with some chick.

aka doesn't really love me

IM on love...

Man oft forgets that love does not flow upward in the sacrificial sense. He makes the mistake of thinking that because he can love a woman without lusting for her, that a woman can do the same. She cannot, because her love is not based on sacrifice, it is based on the appreciation of man’s sacrifice met with lust.

https://illimitablemen.com/2015/06/01/the-hierarchy-of-love/

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (27 children)

Supportive. Respectful. Loving. Caring. All the shit that will dry up a pussy lol.

I'm confused, if that's what they want and emotionally makes them happy why will that dry up their pussies? Isn't that necessary to having emotional sex?

You should be emotionally, sexually, and financially non-exclusive at least until your 30's. So go wild. You have all the time in the world to "settle down" with some chick.

I've got no interest in casual sex though like I said. And I don't really agree with that last part, chicks that are single in their 30s and not used up sluts are very rare. All the good ones will be taken by then.

But yea, I'm fine and happy being single, it's just that sexual frustration kicks in but for a ton of fucking reasons I don't have any desire to have casual sex and if I did I don't think it would be all that reasonable or fair to expect to be find a girl who wasn't a slut. I think my time would be better spent going on dates with quality women. I'm just starting to be paranoid about being these women's plan b(eta) without even realizing it. Makes me feel a lot more cuck than if I just "fucked" them in their prime. I don't see a win-win

Not to get sappy but woman can love more than just the most alpha guy on the planet, just like you can love more than the hottest virgin.

I'd like to believe that but it seems women's capability of love is a lot more fickle than men's. Maybe that's just being jaded talking.

[–]__NOTORIOUS__ 4 points5 points  (17 children)

if that's what they want and emotionally makes them happy why will that dry up their pussies? Isn't that necessary to having emotional sex?

Not really.

Woman will sometimes orgasm while being raped.

http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2013-05/science-arousal-during-rape

One of /u/archwinger 's top posts discusses this...

All of that bullshit about talking to women, treating them well, having common interests, having compatible personalities, getting along as friends for awhile, then maybe moving things toward sex/relationships later? None of that matters. The only purpose behind the way you interact with a woman is that it signifies your status and value. For example, having a confident, non-socially-awkward personality, carrying yourself with muscular, confident, powerful body language, always being busy having shit to do and talk about – all of that is not, itself, attractive. But these things send the woman signals that the underlying person who has this personality and these behaviors is good looking, successful, social, skilled, and interesting. A valuable man.

https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/3w919o/women_are_as_shitty_as_you_let_them_be/

I've got no interest in casual sex though like I said.

Unless you've already had so much you're getting bored, big mistake.

And I don't really agree with that last part, chicks that are single in their 30s and not used up sluts are very rare. All the good ones will be taken by then.

Correct, that's why you find a younger girl. Woman's SMV peaks around 23. men's peaks around 36.

https://rationalmale.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/smv_curve1.jpg

So ideally you want to find a quality mid 20's girl to settle down with in your mid 30's.

I'd like to believe that but it seems women's capability of love is a lot more fickle than men's. Maybe that's just being jaded talking.

Updated my comment to make more sense.

I don't mind answering your questions because explaining things helps me clarify my own thoughts, but 90% of your question have been discussed in the top posts on the TRP sub, The Rationale Male, or IllimitableMan's blog. If you want I can just give you all of the resources that'll give you a strong foundation in RP theory. I can't explain hundreds of pages of theory in a single comment chain.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (16 children)

Then why did you say it's important to have those beta traits. Also I'm going to go out on a limb and say that that article only proves that emotional context matters, assuming women aren't happy after being raped.

Unless you've already had so much you're getting bored, big mistake.

Why. I consider it immoral and fairly disgusting and it doesn't accomplish anything long term unless std collecting and reduced pair bonding is a goal. Not saying others shouldn't do it I just don't think saying not wanting to sleep around is definitively a mistake makes much sense. We're more than just monkeys and as I mentioned before, since I don't want sluts, being a slut myself would be hypocritical. Women are attracted to men who other women want, that isn't the same thing as men who fuck anything that moves and it's been proven time and time again that people end up with people with similar values, social status, and sexuality

[–]LaRedPill 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Then why did you say it's important to have those beta traits. Also I'm going to go out on a limb and say that that article only proves that emotional context matters, assuming women aren't happy after being raped.

Let me chime in here, women, contrary to men, have a dualistic "love", they love both with their minds and their bodies, separately, so they can "love you" but not find you attractive, or they can "hate you" and find you attractive. Men do not have this duality.

So you need to cater to both her mind and body, you need to be lovable but you also need to be sexually attractive.

That is why you need both to have a happy relationship.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

That makes sense thank you. Isn't it the same for men though? I can find my wife physically attractive but not emotionally and vice versa

[–]__NOTORIOUS__ 1 point2 points  (12 children)

Then why did you say it's important to have those beta traits.

I said...

"A 'quality women' with self-control would avoid because them because they are likely to cheat and use them. If I had a sister, I'd recommend for her to look for a combination of alpha/beta traits in a guy."

If you want a self-respecting girl, you might have to display some of those beta traits as well.

Why. I consider it immoral and fairly disgusting and it doesn't accomplish anything long term unless std collecting and reduced pair bonding is a goal.

1) You live a more fulfilling, sexually satisfying life. 2) You develop an abundance mentality.

We're more than just monkeys

Do you eat, sleep, and shit? Than you also need to fuck.

You might get around it through jerking off to porn, but that's hardly fulfilling.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (11 children)

"A 'quality women' with self-control would avoid because them because they are likely to cheat and use them. If I had a sister, I'd recommend for her to look for a combination of alpha/beta traits in a guy." If you want a self-respecting girl, you might have to display some of those beta traits as well.

Right...so it's important to have those traits then if you want a quality woman...

1) You live a more fulfilling, sexually satisfying life.

I wouldn't call being a hedonistic animal preying on mentally unstable women fulfilling. It's got the same mental side effects for men that it does for women so you're just being hypocritical by disliking female sluts so much but not men when both aren't cut out for relationships.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2669057/Casual-sex-IS-good-self-esteem-youre-physically-strong-narcissistic-male.html

Casual sex IS good for self-esteem - but only if you're a 'physically strong, narcissistic male'. People who enjoy casual sex were less likely to have depression or anxiety. Those who got biggest boost were generally 'sexist, manipulative men'. Enjoying casual sex may act as a 'buffer' against any harmful consequences

So it's basically good if you're a narcissist which goes hand in hand with how the TRP info has stated that dark triads are psychopathic/narcissitic/non-commiting and are not capable of long term healthy relationships.

We're more than just monkeys. Do you eat, sleep, and shit? Than you also need to fuck.

1) I need to eat sleep and shit to survive, fucking is not a necessity to life and is fleeting.

2) I can have plenty of sex with women I date, in fact probably a lot more with a lot less effort than if I was just sleeping around. The different is I get dry spells in between dates/relationships.

I'll check out those books.

Edit: To clarify, since I am not a monkey, I care more about my values and morals (ie: what you would call frame) than I do about instant gratification which goes against philosophies like Epicurean which are intended to maximize lifetime happiness. That's being a real man in my eyes and being "alpha". Not being more than a rabid dog looking to fuck and bite anything it can

[–]SetConsumes 0 points1 point  (8 children)

Beta behaviors are needed to make her feel comfortable, loved, secure, and for her to feel that you see her as a human and not the sex object she is.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (7 children)

and for her to feel that you see her as a human and not the sex object she is.

lol

[–]SetConsumes 0 points1 point  (6 children)

and for her to feel that you see her as a human and not the sex object she is.

lol

Can't make the slut feel like a slut

Make her feel good is what's 'logically' correct to her

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (5 children)

Not all women are sluts

[–]Gawernator 7 points8 points  (5 children)

Drop the word fuckboy from your vocabulary. It's essentially a made up feminist buzzword to describe sexually successful men

[–]CypherWolf21 3 points4 points  (2 children)

I was under the belief it originally referred to a man who was commonly raped in prison and was them misused by feminists.

[–]DaPhanthom 1 point2 points  (0 children)

[deleted]

What is this?

[–]Gawernator 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I wouldn't be surprised. Sounds par for the course

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Fucking lots of sluts isn't very successful in my mind. I view that as pathethic just as I view sluts as pathethic. If you've got a quality woman that's something to be envied

[–]Gawernator 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you have both things even better.

[–]LittleRedBugs 2 points3 points  (2 children)

I'll clear up your assumption that marriage is settling.

Real Alpha Men want offspring. Investing in an honorable, loyal, woman is worth the so called "resource loss". A woman also raises children, which is a valuable skill for a man who is invested in his future. He saves precious time by including a partner in his legacy, but the LTR must be worthy to become his wife.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Right but by red pill logic the moment the kid is 18 I should look for another chick

[–]LittleRedBugs 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Or have 10-20 children. Most men can't afford multiple wives. So, one wife. Many children. And if you don't take care of your offspring, you aren't a man.

[–]SetConsumes 0 points1 point  (2 children)

The alpha vs beta mentality comes down to the alpha will not give up his sexual goals for her, the beta will.

As long as you are sexually satisfied then do what you need to do to keep the LTR going. Betas will stay in an LTR even if they're not getting the sex they want.

Focusing on yourself and improving and maximizing your life will be your best weapon to help have a life you won't regret and keep women attracted to you.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

As long as you are sexually satisfied then do what you need to do to keep the LTR going. Betas will stay in an LTR even if they're not getting the sex they want.

The same can be said for emotional fulfillment out fo the relationship as well right? Basically an alpha gets a girl he wants and a beta settles for what he can right?

[–]SetConsumes 0 points1 point  (0 children)

As long as you are sexually satisfied then do what you need to do to keep the LTR going. Betas will stay in an LTR even if they're not getting the sex they want.

The same can be said for emotional fulfillment out fo the relationship as well right?

In what sense? Women provide warmth and comfort and laughter and cuteness. They won't fix some emotional void in yourself, they are not capable of really understanding you, not the way a man can.

Basically an alpha gets a girl he wants and a beta settles for what he can right?

Generally, but this is more symptomatic. The alpha tends to believe in himself a lot more than the beta.

Theres kind of a scale of alpha vs beta, but at the core it's pretty black and white. Changing that core is very very difficult, like rewiring the most deep parts of your brain shaped in your childhood.

Those who are strong and persevere against all odds tend to be alpha. Life isnt good enough for them on easy mode, they can't settle for mediocre. Brutality of reality is fine and they carry on making the best of it.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is by far the best response I've seen on any TRP related sub, thank you.

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

[deleted]

[–]Endorsed Contributorseattleron 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Eastern Europe is a lot different than America, though.

Where did you move to?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (16 children)

I think you have a misunderstanding that can be cleared up with the following: Alpha and beta are not synonyms for good and bad.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (15 children)

Then why is the moment anybody is called a beta on TRP or you get the "classic BB" comment it's always derogatory?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (14 children)

Then why is the moment anybody is called a beta on TRP or you get the "classic BB" comment it's always derogatory?

The vast majority of guys in the vast majority of cases give a girl beta, pretty much non-stop, without having any sort of alpha frame to speak of, and that's why it's frequently derogatory. Consider the following:

Alpha and beta can be used to describe behaviors or people. When they're used to describe behaviors, then alpha refers to the things that affect attraction/arousal, while beta refers to the things that affect comfort/security.

Women need both attraction/arousal and comfort/security in their lives from men. However, they don't often find both in the same person. This is where the "alpha fucks/beta bucks" or AA/BB concept comes from. You can imagine that if a woman is seeing two men in some capacity, it's largely because one of them is providing her with the alpha side of the equation (attraction/arousal) and the other is providing her with the beta side of the equation (comfort/security).

For example, suppose there's a woman with an archetypal asshole fuckbuddy and male "best friend" in the friend zone. She gets her dose of alpha from the fuckbuddy and her dose of beta from the best friend.

Biologically speaking, you can think of the role of seeking out alpha being to acquire the genetic material (ie: sperm) to have strong kids with a better chance to reproduce themselves. The things that signal alpha to women are the things that signal strong genetics. On the other side, you can think of the seeking out of beta the act of acquiring the resources and emotional support needed for getting the kids to the point that they're able to fend for and reproduce themselves.

For example, suppose there's a woman who gets knocked up by an alpha-heavy boyfriend in her early 20s who then bails on her and the kid, but then in her late 20s she locks down a beta-heavy guy who is willing to provide for her and the child. It's the same dualistic strategy playing out in a slightly different way.

Now the thing about it is that you can give a girl enough beta to satisfy that need in her without being just over the top and turning into a sexually unsuccessful loser over it. I'll give an example here that I've given before to girls in various, more appropriate forms as one of my canned little shits to get her emotionally engaged when we're out.

Suppose this chick is sitting across the table at a restaurant from the "best friend" guy or the "BB husband" type, and he reaches out and holds her hand over the table. It's going to feel like someone dropped dog shit in her hand. Now imagine that someone who she's very attracted to (ie: presents alpha) reached out and held her hand. It's going to make her feel amazing. But it's the same damn thing happening physically. It's just a hand holding her hand.

Appropriate amounts of beta work wonders when they come from an alpha frame. However, as soon as you over-do it with the beta, your alpha frame becomes dog shit in her hand.

The derogatory thing comes from the fact that a ton of guys who discover the RP, from within existing LTRs and marriages in particular, try to "sprinkle some alpha on it" to make things better. This means that they try to do a few alpha things within a beta frame. To maximize the chances of a successful LTR or marriage, however, you have to flip it so that you're sprinkling some beta on it from an alpha frame.

I hope that explains things better.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (8 children)

Ah ok this makes a whole lot of sense now. So I want a balance of A/B without overdoing the alpha or the beta.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (7 children)

Yes, except by balance you shouldn't mean 50/50, more like 80/20.

Alpha has to set the context of her relationship to you, but zero beta will push her away and have her sabotage the relationship.

Women are most likely to cheat by seeking alpha when they are ovulating, but they're also most likely to cheat by seeking beta when they are getting close to having their period.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (6 children)

If they want both men why wouldn't it be 50/50? In fact considering she wants a relationship and beta is more relationship oriented wouldn't it make more sense for beta/alpha to be 80/20?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (5 children)

She doesn't want a relationship. She wants a relationship with an alpha.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children)

She wants a relationship with the side that is less capable of providing a relationship?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Yes. You understand exactly.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Well that's a paradox. If you're more alpha than you are beta, you are by definition not a healthy LTR partner so you're basically saying either you're a shitty partner and she likes you or you're a good partner and she doesn't. And I don't think that's reality

[–]GarlicSaucePunch 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Then from your example, what do you do when you slip up a little bit? When you do something a little Beta and you feel the mood change, how do you recover? Like let's say you did the hand hold thing and suddenly realized "Oh shit she didn't react in a good way" what do you do to recover? Just proceed along as if it never happened?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

If holding her hand changes the mood, then she's not attracted.

[–]GarlicSaucePunch 0 points1 point  (1 child)

And so then you proceed by...?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Increase alpha (aka the things that make you attractive) if she's not attracted. It's pretty simple.

In the context of an LTR, the ideas of "slipping up" or "needing to recover" don't really apply. There's no one thing you're going to do that's a "slip up" or that you need to "recover" from. It's all about maintaining the alpha traits and behaviors while putting in enough comfort (ie: good beta) so that she doesn't feel like it's a certainty that you're going to ditch her.

[–]LittleRedBugs 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, alpha frame is so lacking in society. Beta traits, IMHO, are that of friendship. Don't be friends with women so easily. Remember the playground. Girls are savage as fuck.

[–]Senior ContributorSkorchZang 2 points3 points  (3 children)

It can be done with some difficulty, by gaming the woman so well that staying monogamous to you is what SHE wants more than anything. In other words, you don't go exclusive because YOU want to (never do that), only consider it when that's what she wants and is willing to give up anything and everything to have that with you.

Women's promises are worthless. It's a bit of a downer, but that's how it is. So when she brings promises to your monogamous-commitment-store, don't accept that easily counterfeited currency from her. Not only is it easily faked, but there's also no backlash or punishment for women who do it, it's a no-brainer. So you don't want promises, you want ongoing actions that speak for themselves. Aim at vetting her that way for 1-2 years. When you do it right, she will herself suggest that she wants only you and is ready to be exclusive with you even if you are not exclusive with her. Capitalize on that, use it to vet. I think that's your best bet. Meanwhile, let her believe you're fucking other women on the side (even if you actually aren't). Most LTRs fall apart around the 2 year mark, but you can always see if you can manage yours better than most.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

In other words, you don't go exclusive because YOU want to (never do that), only consider it when that's what she wants and is willing to give up anything and everything to have that with you.

Isn't that how relationships work? How do you date a girl without her wanting to date you?

Aim at vetting her that way for 1-2 years. When you do it right, she will herself suggest that she wants only you and is ready to be exclusive with you even if you are not exclusive with her.

You want me to wait 2 years before dating a girl? I'm confused

[–]Senior ContributorSkorchZang 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Oh man, I see all the same confusions I had as though in a mirror, in you.

You can call it whatever you want, you're "seeing each other", you're fucking her. But it is not exclusive, especially not at first. Not until the girl starts hinting and trying to have "The Let's Be Exclusive Talk" with you.

As I mentioned, her promises are always worthless. You can't put a girl's pussy on lockdown for yourself by getting her to promise she'll be super-super faithful and never stray. It'll be about as locked down as yesterday's newspaper dropped from the Eiffel Tower.

Promises = not good enough. You need to make her want that exclusivity with you madly. It usually doesn't just happen by itself, it doesn't automatically follow from your winning qualities as a man. You need game, and the judicial application thereof, managing the girl's feelings, giving her the drama she needs, the affection she needs, the love and the occasional hatefucking too. The full spectrum, dizzying experience. That's where women break down and go crazy, and that's where they genuinely want to be exclusive. If she doesn't want it in that almost obsessive way, I'd say you're doomed to experience all the unpleasantry of being fucked over, cheated out of what you thought was yours.

But don't let that poor prospect deter you from trying because even if you crash and burn, the loss of a particular woman is accompanied by major gains in your awareness and often priceless RP understanding. People will tell you to be careful here, and they're right, but I wanted to pipe in and also say - don't coddle yourself too-too much, be ready to take that knife in the back from your girl and still walk away in one piece if needs be.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well maybe my situation is different from most but I don't have casual sex and I do not want to have sex with a woman ever again until I have a talk about what she values as a way for me to gauge if she's is/"was" a slut and if she has the same values I do.

Of course I completely agree with you that talk is cheap, same can be said for all the players that make a million promises to women and then leave after the first time they have sex, people are just scummy in general. So yea I agree that I should not be commited to a chick until she has fully proved herself through her actions. However I don't know what you mean by wants me madly.

If I girl and I are going out on dates, which is how I get to know women, and it goes well and naturally escalates emotionally and physically, sooner or later she's going to want to have the "talk". Hell my last gf literaly said "will you be my boyfriend" after we had sex, which I thought was a bit weird but if I had said "na chill gurl" it would've been over. So could you give me an example of what you mean?

[–]ppvknifefight 1 point2 points  (2 children)

When it comes to the Red Pill, LTRs are where I draw the line, call bullshit and deviate from the hivemind with zero hesitation.

Now granted, most women out there are garbage and will ruin you if you LTR a terrible one. We've all experienced this in the past, that's why we're here. However, I do get why some of us would just fuck randoms forever. It's easy, it's safe. It requires zero commitment or serious emotional energy.

But we must keep it 100 with ourselves. If we desire LTRs, then the onus is us to be the best we can be, vet the absolute fuck out of our woman and let the chips fall where they may.

You can't be a grown man while worrying about the red pill boogieman aka Chad Thundercock or "hypergamy" 24/7. That shit is for lames and keyboard warriors.

There's tons of people out here in fulfilling, amazing, passionate and exclusive relationships. It's possible.

Following RP to the letter because of what might happen is doing yourself a great disservice.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I agree with most of what you said but it's important to still appeal alphaesque to your S/O. One BP thing to think is that oonce you date her she's yours so you can let yourself go and just focus on her and your relationship. RP mindset reminds you to stay fit, attractive and exciting to keep her. I like to balance the two with LTRs.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I agree. I just wanted to see the views people had but I feel you are right. I think a lot of the red pill extremism about women comes from the fact that not just most women but most people are garbage like you said. But just because something like 80% of people cheat doesn't mean all women cheat as TRP would say

[–][deleted]  (2 children)

[deleted]

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I've gotten a lot of good comments here but I think this should be the top one. I made this thread to get points of views on this matter but I agree with you on everything. I'll just do what a number of others have told me on other threads and just take the good parts of TRP (focusing and improving yourself and having a mix of traits from attractive to stable) but ignore the narcissistic ones.

[–]JourneymanTRP 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In the words of most grandfathers, "they're all the same, just pick one"

If you decide to want an LTR, you suffer from the pitfalls of that and you reap the benefits of it. Those pitfalls and benefits are pretty well documented here.

[–]LittleRedBugs 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'll give you the short version. Privately, you beta the shit out of your woman. In public, you alpha the shit out of your woman. Not all TRP agree with this strategy, but it teaches your LTR that you will not be disrespected in public. Then, when she tries to abuse your beta needs in the home, you can stand strong as the provider and the security she needs, whilst in public, you are the dominant male that every other woman wants. This is my mentality. Abundance mentality, especially in private with your LTR, and then a strong as fuck Dread game in the public eye.

This is a short version, I'd love to shoot messages with you if you'd like a more encompassing explanation.

A true romantic knows how to imitate beta traits to obtain alpha goals. It's not dishonest. It's just the society that women have been fucking up for 1000s of years. Gotta roll with the punches.