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There is a girl in my community who falsely accuses men of rape and harassment. How should I handle the situation? (self.asktrp)

submitted by Argon_Note

I originally met this girl years ago in a coop context. She didn't live at the coop but spent a lot of time there. She generally came for dinner and sat in the dining room gossiping loudly about other people. Over the past few years, she has made a variety of accusations with details that either could be confirmed or were confirmed to be false. Often the accusations did not involve her in any way. Here are some examples:

  • One of the coop members supposedly physically assaulted someone. She successfully had him banned from the community. The accusation was later proven to be false.

  • One of the coop members supposedly raped women years prior. No actual victims were able to be found, and none of her details were able to be confirmed. She successfully had him banned as well.

  • She told another woman after a breakup to attempt to get a restraining order against her ex-boyfriend. The ex-boyfriend did not appear to have done anything violent or threatening. The other woman reasonably declined to do so. However, the girl encouraging her to get the restraining order claimed the ex was crazy/dangerous and had him banned from the community as well.

I appear to have become her most recent target. She began by claiming I was suicidal and needed to be found and helped. I later discovered she had sent my name and photo to a semi-public email list. When I confronted her about this and told her to leave me alone, she began claiming that I am a dangerous stalker, that I abused prior partners (none of which have confirmed her story), and that I molest women. She went so far as to contact someone with whom I had set up a first date, and convinced them to cancel.

I am trying to avoid her like the plague, but pattern of behavior has been negatively impacting my ability to spend time with friends and to date. It has also impacted many of my friends. Some of my friends whom she had banned from the community began experiencing symptoms of depression afterward. Given that she works at a nonprofit that helps women obtain restraining orders against supposed abusers, her behavior seems likely to have a broader negative social impact also.

My close friends and I avoid her as much as possible, but it often seems like she initiates contact with us or with our friends and acquaintances. I am hoping someone here will have advice on how to best handle this situation so that my friends and I won't have to worry about her behavior continuing to negatively impact us.

Thank you very much for your advice! It is greatly appreciated.


[–]Platos_slow_brother 35 points36 points  (18 children)

Hire a lawyer. Have him send her a letter outlining her behavior and demanding it stop.

Have the lawyer share that letter with the coop, and insist that the coop ban her from further participation in the community. Couch it in terms of a harassing, somewhat disturbed woman with a history of malicious, false conduct.

[–]Argon_Note[S] 7 points8 points  (14 children)

Thank you so much! Having a cease and desist notice sent to her might be helpful. Offhand, do you have a sense of how much lawyers cost for that sort of thing, or the best way to find a good inexpensive one? (I ask mostly because I am still a student and would be relying on financial aid funds.)

It seems like the cease and desist letter, as well as notifying the coop, may also result in further retaliation, about which I am somewhat concerned. So perhaps the approach would need to be delicate. I appreciate your advice very much and would be very interested to hear if anyone has further thoughts on these things.

[–]A_Crabby_Patty 7 points8 points  (11 children)

Offhand, do you have a sense of how much lawyers cost for that sort of thing, or the best way to find a good inexpensive one? (I ask mostly because I am still a student and would be relying on financial aid funds.)

Any lawyer worth half a shit can draft up a cease and desist for ~$300/400. IMO, that's worth far less any any potential repercussions for not doing so. Consider it an investment. Don't go to LegalZoom, either. Get someone local to the community that people recognize, but not a Better Call Saul-type either.

[–]randarrow 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yeah, if you call Saul she might end up in a vacuum repairshop somewhere....

[–]Argon_Note[S] 1 point2 points  (9 children)

Awesome! This is super helpful to know. Thanks!

[–]RPmatrix 2 points3 points  (8 children)

Misery Loves company!!!

http://psychology.wikia.com/wiki/Projection_%28defence_mechanism%29

She's a SICK woman trying to blame any/everyone BUT herself!

Get the lawyer's letter/restraining order (for 'stalking') and stop her and her Bullshit ASAP!

You'll be doing everyone a huge favor, whether they know it or not!

[–]Argon_Note[S] 1 point2 points  (7 children)

Your link on projection makes sense. "I feel like a bad person; therefore you are a bad person" might capture her thought process well. All the advice her helps so much. Thank you for the encouragement.

[–]RPmatrix 2 points3 points  (6 children)

Yep, "BPD and projection" go hand in head! You will always find people with BPD 'projecting' their shit onto others

Happy I/we could help

feel free to pm me if you want to ask anything --- after all, that's what we're here for ;D

[–]Argon_Note[S] 2 points3 points  (5 children)

You (all) are truly the best. Thank you!

[–]RPmatrix 1 point2 points  (4 children)

lol, you know "projection" cuts both ways?

you sound like a cool guy yourself matey,

It's always a pleasure to welcome another 'reasonable' mind to TRP ... a place where The Truth is welcomed

If you're new here and would like a few links to give you a basic understanding of what TRP's really all about, just ask. Otherwise, enjoy the honesty we do our best to maintain in all things here at TRP. The truth can often come across as harsh sometimes, BUT by fuck is it Liberating!

The Truth only 'hurts' when you discover you've been living believing Lies!

[–]Argon_Note[S] 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Thanks! Truth > Feelings, and hearing it helps a lot.

I'm new and would definitely appreciate links. I'm hoping to get a better sense of how I can best return the favor. Looking forward to contributing in return in contexts where I have the relevant experience.

[–]Frdl 3 points4 points  (0 children)

All of her power relies on the coop. If you have them on your side she has nothing.

[–]Foolish_ness 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Further retaliation is something you are correct in considering, but what's really important is that you have some official record of her actions asap.
It sounds like she will continue to escalate regardless, and the worst thing you can do is have no official record of how she's been treating you and others if she escalates it to a point where you are being doubted.

[–]Kenny_Twenty 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I was gonna suggest killing her but your idea seems a lot more sensible.

[–]thor_away92 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Then file a restraining order against her for harassment. :)

Why can't you just GTFO this situation entirely?

[–]Argon_Note[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks! I am working on getting away from her and the situation as much as possible. She recently began showing up at the gym I go to, and we are in a fairly densely packed college town, so removing myself entirely has been difficult. I might move to a different city after graduation, but it would be nice not to need to.

I have looked at getting a harassment-prevention order, but they seem to be more suited to stopping people from making direct threats to one's physical safety, which she technically has not done, so it seems a cease and desist letter may be my best option for now.

[–]Kalepsis 4 points5 points  (5 children)

That would be harassment. Blatant, man-hating harassment. Talk to a lawyer, get him to send a cease-and-desist letter, both to her and the co-op. Also talk to the police about getting a restraining order. If she continues, Sue her for slander, harassment, and "emotional distress".

[–]Argon_Note[S] 1 point2 points  (4 children)

Thank you so much! I certainly thought about filing suit if necessary. One of my concerns is that slander cases are often difficult to prove since the majority of evidence regarding what happened is often verbal. I would be very interested and grateful to hear what others think about how one would proceed with obtaining evidence if it were necessary to do so. Though I'm certainly glad that obtaining evidence may not be necessary to focus on just yet.

[–]Kalepsis 3 points4 points  (3 children)

Digital audio recorder from Walmart costs about $20. Buy one, keep it on you, switched on and recording, any time you're awake. At the end of every day, download the audio to an external hard drive, and date the file. Best way to prove a case of slander is if you have audio recordings of the slander.

If your state is a two-party-consent state (in which both parties must be aware and consenting to be recorded) it gets trickier, but that's a question for the lawyer. The important thing is to protect yourself and your good name, which is much more important to a man than a woman.

[–]Argon_Note[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Thank you so much for your advice! I'm in a two party consent state, so it seems like one of my best options may be to have another person (or people) confirm what has been occurring. It seems like chat records might be helpful, though obtaining them would likely be difficult. Learning about the legal system in cases like this has been an interesting challenge.

[–]Kalepsis 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Kind of a worst-case scenario, but you still have options. Consult a lawyer, and good luck. That kind of crazy can be very difficult to deal with.

[–]Argon_Note[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks for the moral support!

[–]imatrollol 4 points5 points  (1 child)

I have had this sort of thing happen to me before. I'm asian and run my own cloud point of sale startup.

My ex was, though arguably in the lower spectrum for iq, a manipulative and malicious creature.

One might even argue her intellectual challenges made her an even worse type of character to deal with.

After the breakup (she cheated), she started contacting my family, friends, clients and business partners, alledging multiple types of transgressions, abuse and illegal business activity. She threatened to 'ruin me' and even approached women support groups to accuse me of abuse and being violent and abusive towards her.

This went on for about 10 months for me (till i blocked her on all my channels). As a result I lost tens of thousands in contracts as well as had to refund tens of thousands to my ex-on going clients. ( we almost went bankrupt).

My parents went through the trauma as well as she would contact them directly alledging different things each time. They would in turn question me after days of brooding over each accusation.

This ordeal has left me drained, jaded and really disenchanted with our societal systems. I gained 40 pounds and my business faced months of my productivity lost. I have just recovered somewhat the past couple of months.

But what really did not sit well with me is that some one like that can do all that with no repurcussions whatsoever.

It irks me that the mob lynching, pussy pass, white knighting and other bull shit like that enables vile scum and their antics. Its always guilty until proven innocent. We have to use our own assets or move away from your location to 'solve the problem'. Being a male has always been an uphill battle, and the hill just got steeper.

/end rant

[–]Argon_Note[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm so sorry to hear that. Wow. The situation sounds awful. Getting them to stop is so expensive and often doesn't work at all. There is no justice, and that is part of what makes the situation so frustrating. How long has it been since your ex finally stopped?

How are you doing now? And is there anything you would recommend that was helpful as you were recovering from all the nonsense? I am finding that the fallout from her behavior is getting to me more than I expected. Thank you so much for sharing your story! I hope business and life stay good.

[–]COLIE53 8 points9 points  (1 child)

She's using intimidation tactics here.

Start recording all interactions or keeping detailed notes of them. Dont engage with her and be extremely cordial when you do. She will build her own coffin.

In the meantime start looking for a new place to live.

[–]Argon_Note[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thanks! Yes. I was also banned and found a new place to live. Sorry I wasn't clear about that before! Right now her behavior seems to be focused on those parts of our social groups that still overlap. I've found myself slowly distancing myself from those groups and finding new ones that are better at spotting those types of behavior. :) It seems to be helping in some ways, though it certainly isn't a perfect solution. Thank you again.

[–]F_Dingo 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I appear to have become her most recent target. She began by claiming I was suicidal and needed to be found and helped. I later discovered she had sent my name and photo to a semi-public email list. When I confronted her about this and told her to leave me alone, she began claiming that I am a dangerous stalker, that I abused prior partners (none of which have confirmed her story), and that I molest women. She went so far as to contact someone with whom I had set up a first date, and convinced them to cancel.

Talk to a lawyer and have them send a cease and desist order to her. If the behavior continues, sue her for slander. Record all future interactions and avoid her like the plague.

[–]cashcow1 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Sounds like a sociopath. Stay the fuck away. And consider leaving the community if she's not removed.

NEVER trust a sociopath, and NEVER trust an organization that tolerates them. Read up on "political ponerology" to see what these people do when they infiltrate groups.

[–]Argon_Note[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I just looked up political ponerology, and it seems fascinating so far. Thank you!

[–]Mr_ghostslayer 2 points3 points  (3 children)

If you have reliable hook ups for drugs, buy some weed and stash it in her room without her knowing.

Then tell campus you smelt her smoking weed for past weeks. Tell them she's been offering it to you and she showed you where she hides it. They'll check her room and find the weed.

This is a one way ticket for that bitch to get banned. But you need to plan this super well.

You could also have an enemy for life after this too.

[–]inspiron3000 1 point2 points  (1 child)

This can backfire and may not have the intended effect.

Revenge and trap laying are symptoms of Giving A Fuck Too Many.

[–]Argon_Note[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks! We are thinking along the same lines. Bringing people together, ignoring her, and taking legal safety measures seem like the healthiest response and most likely to have positive repercussions (even if they aren't 100% successful). I appreciate your calm and advocacy for giving less fucks. It's what has helped most so far.

[–]thebrandedman 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What kind of sentence would that result in?

[–]nice_and_friendly 5 points6 points  (9 children)

the best move is to just pretend she doesnt exist. dont look at her, dont talk to her, and if she ever talks to you, pretend shes invisible and dont even acknowledge her. sounds like a pretty abnormally dangerous bitch

[–]Kalepsis 6 points7 points  (7 children)

I've known women like this before (9 years in the Marines). Ignoring her will not stop her, it will make it worse. She has deep-seeded hate and emotional prejudice against men in general. OP needs to take legal action now and stop this bullshit as soon as possible, and make it as public as he can. Everyone needs to know exactly what she is doing. She will not stop unless you force her to stop. Even then, she probably won't stop. She'll be falsely accusing the judge, bailiff, and the prison guards when she goes to jail, too.

On a side note, OP, try not to be alone, ever, until she is thrown out of the co-op. Any time she knows you're alone is another time she can accuse you of shit and you have no witnesses to prove your innocence.

[–]Argon_Note[S] 1 point2 points  (6 children)

Thanks! My attempts to distance myself have appeared to provoke her in the past, so it is very helpful to know that this may be a common experience. I've been surrounding myself with buddies, and it has definitely helped avert conflict.

[–]RPmatrix 2 points3 points  (3 children)

she also sounds like she has ;

Borderline personality disorder -

  • Behavior

Borderline personality disorder (BPD), also known as emotionally unstable personality disorder, is a long-term pattern of abnormal behavior characterized by unstable relationships with other people, unstable sense of self, and unstable emotions. There is often an extreme fear of abandonment, frequent dangerous behavior, a feeling of emptiness, and self-harm. Symptoms may be brought on by seemingly normal events.

The behavior typically begins by early adulthood, and occurs across a variety of situations

  • Interpersonal relationships

People with BPD can be very sensitive to the way others treat them, by feeling intense joy and gratitude at perceived expressions of kindness, and intense sadness or anger at perceived criticism or hurtfulness. Their feelings about others often shift from admiration or love to anger or dislike after a disappointment, a threat of losing someone, or a perceived loss of esteem in the eyes of someone they value.

This phenomenon, sometimes called splitting, includes a shift from idealizing others to devaluing them.

Combined with mood disturbances, idealization and devaluation can undermine relationships with family, friends, and co-workers. Self-image can also change rapidly from healthy to unhealthy.

While strongly desiring intimacy, people with BPD tend toward insecure, avoidant or ambivalent, or fearfully preoccupied attachment patterns in relationships, and they often view the world as dangerous and malevolent

Impulsive behavior is common, including substance or alcohol abuse, eating disorders, unprotected sex or indiscriminate sex with multiple partners, reckless spending, and reckless driving. Impulsive behavior may also include leaving jobs or relationships, running away, and self-injury.

People with BPD act impulsively because it gives them immediate relief from their emotional pain. However, in the long term, people with BPD suffer increased pain from the shame and guilt that follow such actions. A cycle often begins in which people with BPD feel emotional pain, engage in impulsive behavior to relieve that pain, feel shame and guilt over their actions, feel emotional pain from the shame and guilt, and then experience stronger urges to engage in impulsive behavior to relieve the new pain.

As time goes on, impulsive behavior may become an automatic response to emotional pain

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borderline_personality_disorder

  • People with BPD are also especially sensitive to feelings of rejection, criticism, isolation, and perceived failure.

Before learning other coping mechanisms, their efforts to manage or escape from their very negative emotions may lead to self-injury or suicidal behavior. They are often aware of the intensity of their negative emotional reactions and, since they cannot regulate them, they shut them down entirely.

This can be harmful to people with BPD, since negative emotions alert people to the presence of a problematic situation and move them to address it which the person with BPD would normally be aware of only to cause further distress

sound familiar?

read the link for more info that will help you understand her 'madness'

good luck .... fortunately you've asked the RP, we don't tolerate 'BPD Bullshit' here ;)

[–]Argon_Note[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Wow. Thank you so much. This describes her to a tee.

[–]RPmatrix 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Yeah, I thought you might find this helpful.

As you can see from the other info I've linked, it sounds to me like she has some complex and deep seated 'problems' which won't be changing in a hurry!

I hope it helps you deal with her (e.g. GET OUT of there asap!)

Girls like this can (and will!) fuck you over for 'no 'reason' at all, she just needs to feel you've dis-agreed and/or 'rejected' her "feelings" about ANY thing and you could be in for some severe retribution, whether it's justified Or not!

Be careful bro, she's a true "loose cannon" ... but with this knowledge on board, at least with this information, you've now got some knowledge to help you understand her 'madness' and Act accordingly --- which IMHO, the Only safe/smart action' is for you to firstly, 'cover your own arse' and then GTFO while trying to share this knowledge with others in this Co-Op whom you trust (and who hopefully listen)

All the best amico

And thanks for the feedback

[–]Argon_Note[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks!

[–]inspiron3000 2 points3 points  (1 child)

From experience, dealing with people with personality disorders is a complex that requires patience, awareness and caution.

A method that is recommended by people that have had similar problems in a family or relationship situations is called 'Gray Rock' .

Otherwise, 'No Contact', 'No Response' and Mirroring (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirroring_(psychology)) are methods that may be applicable.

Going no contact can have the same effect as getting a restraining order - it can go nuclear.

Gray Rocking is similar to the 'It's not you, it's me' method of breaking up and works effectively as it can cause your adversary to remove themself from you.

[–]Argon_Note[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The Gray Rock technique is brilliant! Thank you so much! I am quite excited to try this. Gray Rock will be my new spirit animal.

[–]Argon_Note[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks.

[–]omega_dawg93 1 point2 points  (3 children)

and to think... some lucky guy will get to marry her one day!

[–]Argon_Note[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Or lady! She dates women too. Maybe she can find one who shares her interests, and they will eventually find happiness hating men together.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Statistically they are more likely to batter each other to death than find happiness.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_violence_in_lesbian_relationships

[–]Argon_Note[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Oh wow. The stats are pretty high, especially for psychological abuse. Thanks for linking me.

[–]Late30sMasculist 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Everyone is telling you to get a lawyer. I think you should find new social groups to hang out in. If what you say is true, this girl has repeatedly ruined lives and reputations without any evidence. Not only that, but the co-op people indulge her and support her in this.

What this tells me is that the co-op organization itself is poisonous and you should leave it.

Co-ops tend to attract liberals and SJW-types so this is not surprising to me.

Find better friends. Leave this girl and any group that takes her seriously in your past.

[–]0kool74 1 point2 points  (1 child)

have you thought about getting all those other banned individuals together and ruining the co-op in the court of public opinion?

[–]Argon_Note[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I've certainly thought of it, but doing so would alienate a lot of amazing people who used to live there back when the environment was healthier. That and I'm trying to avoid unnecessary drama so I can focus on my school work. Your recommendation would certainly feel satisfying in a certain way, so thank you! I have heard that a vaguely similar situation happened years ago, and membership slowly declined as a result. Natural turnover then allowed new people to come in who did cool things and didn't tolerate BS. I'm hoping that once the current drama dies down, a similar change will again be possible.

[–]Argon_Note[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks! I am working on both finding a good lawyer contact and disconnecting from groups that take her seriously. I've left the co-op. It's been surprising and sad to see how many people and groups take her seriously based on the magnitude of her feelings rather than diligently checking facts. I'm very glad this group exists since there are so few supports in cases like this. Thank you again.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 1 point2 points  (3 children)

When I confronted her about this and told her to leave me alone,

This is what she wants. Attention. Have zero contact with her, or as little as possible.

Write up your examples as you've written here along with as much factual evidence as you can. Print out ten copies. Hand them out to anyone who accuses you of anything.

Given that she works at a nonprofit that helps women obtain restraining orders against supposed abusers, her behavior seems likely to have a broader negative social impact also.

SJWs like this are anti-male. They don't wish to help women and find genuinely abused women hard to find. It doesn't fit their narrative to believe that most women are simply not abused. So they try to make the facts fit their deeply held women-as-victims belief.

Get legal advice if any shit starts. Other than that, don't give her the oxygen of attention.

Good luck, and remember you can't win 'em all. You might lose this one. It happens in this fucking BP anti-male world in which we live. Deal with hit, don't be defined by it.

Also... collect as much fucking dirt on her as you can!

[–]Argon_Note[S] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Thanks! I like your recommendation (particularly the order in which to proceed)--it seems like the best course of action.

[–]RPmatrix 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Yes, Matty knows what he's talking about -- read my other posts for some more detailed 'possible' explanations.

[–]Argon_Note[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks!

[–]TheBeardedMarxist 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Maybe just get new friends who don't want crazy people around.

[–]Argon_Note[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, that! (Thanks.) The situation has oddly turned out to have been of huge benefit in motivating me to reach out and surround myself with good people. I used to be pretty tolerant and had a lot of acquaintances, but now I'm investing more time in a core group of close friends. It's been a good change.

[–]SickeningPiss 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Go to the police and get an AVO say she is harrassing you and is using duress to force you into saying you're stalking her. Its a form of defemation of character see if you can sue her in a civil claim. A lawyer would help, but at the end of the day its just a letter which she can put in the bin. I would still send it to show her you're serious about following with legal precedings if the behaviour continues.

[–]Argon_Note[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Yes, I'm planning to go ahead with sending it. Thanks!

[–]SickeningPiss 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Easy! Also avoid contact with her and screenshot everything for evidence.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

kill her

[–]Lumby 0 points1 point  (1 child)

See if you can get in contact with the previous three gentleman who she slandered. It would be helpful to have their information when consulting the lawyer about the cease and desist.

[–]Argon_Note[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you! Yes, that is definitely the case.

[–][deleted]  (3 children)

[deleted]

[–]Argon_Note[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Yes, that's it! Thanks for clarifying. (There are multiple types, and I didn't say which before.)

[–]RPmatrix 2 points3 points  (1 child)

The 'technically' it's a Co-Op' aka 'Co-Operative'

sorry for sounding like a grammar nazi BUT you Must be as clear as possible (esp online) so people know what you mean. This means spelling things properly, e.g a "coop" is what chickens live in! hehe!

[–]Argon_Note[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Point taken. Thanks!