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I don't get why guys get married (self.asktrp)

submitted by arandomreddituserrr

I'm sure there are a couple of guys here with great marriages, and great for you, but about 50% of marriages end in divorce, 2/3 of them are initiated by women where they usually get the kids and property. And this doesn't mean the other 50% are having happy marriages either, their spouse could also die, get a debilitating disease, get fat, or maybe they stay together for the kids but hate their marriage, etc. A very small percent of them are probably happily married. I saw my parents go through a bitter divorce and destroy each other, and literally almost all my friends have broken homes, with either a divorce, dead parent, parents who fight all day, or who refuse to get a divorce because of religion or traditions. I'm 19 btw, I don't ever see myself getting married. I just don't understand why guys want to do this to themselves. Maybe I'll understand as I get older? Thoughts?


[–]Velebit 60 points61 points  (9 children)

Marriage used to be a contract between two people, you know, you sign something and than that is that and you are honor bound to make it work, yeah the concept of honor is foreign to hedonistic selfish fickle people of 21st century

also courts tend to favor women in the west, not so much in the east or south, so even a good prenup will be discarded by courts

Marriage has nothing to do with love, it is a contract between two people to combine resources and raise kids, today people view it as something romantic, to make you happy etc etc, that tends to fail

The main reason is to get tax credit, to ensure monogamy and commitment, to get a higher status in eyes of employer, clients and beurocracy, plenty of war veterans in my country are discriminated because they refuse to get married and stay officially single. During the war the government gave nice deals to anyone who took to draft and they promised houses, income etc, when the war ended it turned out there is not enough of that for everyone, of course those with wives and especially those with wives and kids got what was promised, the rest barely got anything and that makes sense if you are the government since you wanna keep existing and without babies there is no existence. There is also the hope of it working out, you are very cynical, most people are not, they chose to believe in happiness and not overthink everything

Also our current lives are extremely unnatural, we are supposed to live until 40something and women are supposed to produce babies in early teens with first sexual partner, take that into account and there is no mistakes to be made, you have need for sex, you have sex, gj now you get to raise a family, you know your duties as a father, she knows her as a mother, done! You don't have time to fuck up, you don't have second chances. You fuck another woman, a slut or a whore? You die of some easy-to-treat STD, you touch another mans wife you die in a duel from a small cut, you wait for too long to marry, all the other women are married and with babies and you have half your teeth missing. This is gone.

[–]mrpCamper 11 points12 points  (1 child)

marriage used to be a contract between two people families.

[–]Velebit 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Between two people first and foremost but families were much more involved in the past. It was in families interest to keep the marriage working and they gave the newlyweds resources to make them independent. It was usually that husbands family have land and brides family gave cattle. They literally provided their kids with matchmaking, support, a very simple and easy to understand value system (that works), jobs and enabled them independence when they were both younger than 18. Today we have shit. We barely see our parents, let alone relatives and we are imprisoned in concentration camps called education doing busywork that 90% of it will never be of any use. Think about it. On a scale of 1 to 10, how natural is it for young children/homo sapiens to spend 10-15 years sitting calmly and patiently listening and memorizing factoids??? The most obvious sign of a civilizational downfall (when the whole way of life is a big failure) is falling birthrates. People go out of their way not to bring new people into the failing system.

We are not having intimate relationships with our families, we are not having sex, we don't have any consequential responsibilities, we don't make families and we don't get or raise kids.

We have become nothing more than extensions of machines who have became our substitute for a natural existence and a truly human experience.

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

I think you might be a genius.

[–]monkey_typist 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Yeah, marriages used to have a goal... division of labor. There are a lot of mundane things one must do to survive. Having a life partner, with a woman, who has a different set of natural talents, and will gravitate toward taking care of a different piece of everyday life, lends itself to helping both of you achieve life more efficiently.

Of course similar concept of division of labor also exists in families, and clans, that's why being social is important and built in to our genetics.

But that necessity is gone in modern day life. Whatever you can't take care of, you can use technology or services rendered by others. We have a very good support system for single people, meaning our civilization has gotten so good at division of labor that it cut into the special zone that used to be provided by marriage.

So marriage today, is done out of romantic love, and not necessity, meaning it's elective and optional. But the cost of marriage never went away (arguably worse now). So you have an arrangement that provides less but cost the same (or more), compared to before, and that's why people are bailing out.

Marriage isn't for everyone. I've made the decision to never get married or have kids. Best decision I've ever made. But that's for me, it doesn't mean marriage isn't for anyone. Different people have different life goals. If marriage aligns with your life goals, then it may be worth the price, but it's not a no-brainer like the old times.

[–]Velebit 1 point2 points  (0 children)

What marriage is has changed. Today you can make a strong case that you can't get married because the systems that used to uphold marriage don't exist, you can even make a very strong case that a large part of humanity is not marriageable and that governments don't recognize basic fundamentals of marriage.

Today the only thing left from marriage is the ceremony. People say those words and sign something and in the end they don't carry out what they said and that contract has no authority. It's fake, it's a show, however the financial cost for both ceremony and divorce are not as fake as the whole thing. Don't conflate marriage with divorce, divorce is a separate issue altogether. While marriage lost content and weight divorce got a lot more weight, especially in the west.

[–]W_O_M_B_A_T 1 point2 points  (1 child)

we are supposed to lived until 40something

Not supposed, but the majority of people only made it that far before disease, starvation, hypothermia, feuding with your neighbors, or some accident got them. That's just how the odds worked out.

Look at menopause in women. Why did that trait evolve? Doesn't happen for the vast majority of animals, why humans?

I think the reason was that if as a woman you got past 50, you knew what the fuck you were doing. Teaching skills and taking care of your grandkids was much more valuable to the survival of your offspring than risking your life in childbirth having some more sickly, stunted babies.

Incidentally, I've read that before humans started domesticating animals and living in large settlements, the average life expectancy was probably mid-60's assuming you made it into adulthood. Child mortality was just a lot higher.

Then we started brewing beer, then growing crops with which to brew, then living in permanent villages to protect said crops. Then herding animals for meat because we couldn't follow them as they migrated anymore. The animals had diseases just waiting to jump the bridge into a new set of hosts living in close quarters. Smallpox, measles, and tuberculosis from cows, for example. Survival of the sickest became the rule among humans.

The reasons to feud with each other went way up too, and thus the urban thug evolved.

[–]Velebit 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You went off topic. What is your point?

[–]yallapapi 0 points1 point  (1 child)

This is all true, but I think the real reason comes from laziness / desire to focus on your professional life instead of chasing tail.

A man gets married because he thinks to himself, "this one is probably better than anything else I could ever get" and thinks that when he gives her the ring he doesn't have to put as much effort into getting laid or being intimate with a woman.

I've never been married but I noticed that in my professional life I am more stable if I am in a relationship. If it's going well at least. If not then it's the opposite. But nobody goes into a relationship thinking it will be bad.

Anyway the point is that a lot of it comes from laziness and lack of discipline to keep up the flow of new girls.

[–]Velebit 0 points1 point  (0 children)

A lot of my friends got married. 3 of them because the girl got pregnant and for 2 of those, it was their first sexual partner. They are the type of guys who really don't turn around to look at other women. Their bond is really strong. Like it should be for humans. The 4th friend married his college sweetheart who was his 2nd sexual partner when they both moved away into another country. They are both very right wing and I he told me when he was 16 that all he wants is to find one girl and marry her. He never cared for promiscuity. My 5th friend is engaged for 3 years now and he thinks she is great and a keeper and they are both near 30 and wanna make a family, they don't care about tickling their ego with new meat.

Interestingly, every single one of those guys is very successful in their job, while the most successful fuckboys I know are doing manual jobs and working in the open, most haven't finished the degree they tried to get and the neighbourhood is constantly on their case for not getting anywhere and being in the doctors office often. I live in an eastern European country where everyone has same doctor if they are in same neighbourhood so if you get something people talk. Guys with STDs are known.

[–][deleted]  (2 children)

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[–]arandomreddituserrr[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

To be honest yeah i've never had a girlfriend. What actually prompted me to ask this was one of my friends who just got his first girlfriend and said that he wants to marry her after a couple weeks. It made me realize women have a powerful effect on guys, im not saying im immune to it.

[–]Just_Isaak 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Churchy Russians all day man...

[–][deleted]  (10 children)

[deleted]

[–]hugaddiction 10 points11 points  (2 children)

Please wait till after your 30 and can make an informed decision. And make sure she is 10 years younger or has money. No over justification for it other than making kids or combining resources

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

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    [–]The__Tren__Train 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    smart young man. i was very optimistic about marriage when i was your age (hadn't swallowed the pill).

    im 27, and girls were pretty degenerate when i was in highschool.. can't imagine what they must be like now lmao

    [–]SocietalEngineering 10 points11 points  (0 children)

    We need you at r/SocietalEngineering.

    Getting married is a trap. It was never normal for a man to have sex with only one woman. Marriage occurred to solidify familial bonds and make new friends. That doesn't mean that men didn't fuck plenty of other bitches.

    Marriage isn't a new idea, but it is a really really new idea that marriage means endless devotion to one pussy.

    [–]Sparrowspade 13 points14 points  (5 children)

    having kids is the norm

    Everyone who's currently alive is the result of successful gene propagation, which requires reproduction.

    It's cool to think "heh, all the idiots that resulted into me being able to type this incoherent vomit just bought into the society's brainwashing for thousands of years but I'm too smart for that". Actually, it's not cool, it's downright retarded.

    I get that murika is fucked right now and the scales are tilted in favor of women when it comes to divorce laws but that doesn't mean jack shit for biological truths.

    [–]Burlaczech 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    darwin theory in motion - those that dont get it will be extinct and those that do, will keep their genes in the genepool.

    [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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      [–]Sparrowspade 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Definitely agree with you. But one of the reasons why TRP is overall in favor of increasing your value in the sexual marketplace isn't just for your pleasure but by being the one who attracts and picks you get to filter who's fit to be a good mother and who isn't.

      Meanwhile, beta Bob will settle with either someone who just happened to be a childhood friend or one who spread her legs for him after years of cobwebs on his dick. He's fucked.

      [–]giantbollocks 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      It means I don't care about biological truths until reality is fixed tho

      [–]zboo1h 5 points6 points  (1 child)

      It's the best environment to rear children in, so that they don't turn into degenerates.

      Degenerates are easy to control. Single moms produce degenerates. So now you know why the state basically subsidizes single motherhood.

      [–]arandomreddituserrr[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      Yeah I have a single mom. It is literally one of the worst things for a boy and has messed me up. And yet look at how single moms are praised by society.

      [–]ReadyForChange87 8 points9 points  (2 children)

      Unless it's for visa reasons I would never ever marry. Marriage is not romantic. It's a business contract. Nothing more. Nothing less. It's expensive and makes breaking up harder. Why even bother? I guess most beta guys marry because they are scared to lose the girl. A married women gets approached less. And a married wife will break up less likely than just a LTR.

      [–]RedBigMan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Bingo... and if it is for visa reasons odds are it's some chick trying to get a green card or similar not for some dude to get one. So even more reason not to get married.

      [–]arandomreddituserrr[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Yeah I definetly think beta guys think getting married means it prevents the girl from ever leaving him. It seems the best type of marriage if you do get one is a decent looking, but not hot wife, who is loyal, and religious. A hot wife knows she has way too many options and can get a divorce whenever she wants, she knows she has the power.

      [–]Arnoux 3 points4 points  (0 children)

      You get several economic incentives in my country if you are raising 1-3 children.

      I am not sure, but probably you only get these incentives if you are married.

      EDIT: Also, if you want to raise kids, you have to be really alpha to convince your girlfriend to bear child to you, without doing the marriage first. Or you have to choose a much lower SMV girl to accept the deal. The reality for most of us is that we are not that exceptional high SMV that we can convince a high SMV girl to get pregnant, without doing the marriage route.

      [–]BestSC86 3 points4 points  (2 children)

      I don't know why you give a shit what other people do?

      Really, it isn't hard to understand. In most places, it is simply the thing to do. People like to do what their parents and community expects of them. So most guys are constantly on the search for snowflake and will take what ever measures they have to take in order to get a chance to see that pussy. Frankly, they don't give a shit about the alphaeta stuff or whether she is marrying them because of the stability or finances...they just want to see that pussy once. And the fact that it soon devolves into a sexless, domineering marriage doesn't really register because that is what their parents did so again...following their parent model. It is the way of life for these people.

      Plus you are 19yo, don't be insulted but really you don't have any real idea of what life holds in store for you or even to be frank any idea of life in general. I mean, I know we all thought that we knew everything at that age but when you look back at 30, you will realize that you were a fucking moron and didn't have a clue.

      In this day and age, young people should not be getting married or really in LTRs...they are not up to the task or temperament. You should be learning how to decipher the character of people and women at that age, not following the prospect of a pussy around like a beagle which a lot of dudes do, even on TRP. You can spot them pretty easily even though they try to hide their obsession behind bravado and terms like alphaplateetc. You can tell that they are completely mesmerized by that one girl who let them fuck her.....though they all claim to "IDGAF, as I have multiple plates, blah, blah, blah". Of course, it isn't true as they are not posting long screeds about those other chicks on reddit looking for advice on how to see that pussy again now are they.

      People do what society expects them to do.

      [–]arandomreddituserrr[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      The reason I give a shit is because I know in around 10 years most of my friends will probably be getting married and getting whipped, and most guys around my age will be getting married. Also yeah i'm 19, but I still feel like I know a lot more than guys who are like 30+, in terms of like how life is.

      [–]BestSC86 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Of course you do...you are 19.

      But you really only have a vague belief of things.....it simply is a mirage that comes with being at the age of late teens.

      The smart ones constantly test what they "know" to see if it holds up as they mature while the stupid ones take what they "know" then hold on to it fanatically and hardheadedly out a sense of ego.

      As a male, you are not even fully developed emotionallyrain capacity wise until your early 20s.....you will see.

      [–]InternetHateDevice 4 points5 points  (1 child)

      Marriage itself isn't bad. It was originally a religious ceremony that signaled the beginning of absolute monogamy in the name of raising children before a deity. Whatever your thoughts on religion are, this model has been proven to be the best method of raising children and promoting general life satisfaction (happiness).

      What we see here in the west is a sick and twisted perversion of that once sacred benevolent ceremony.

      It's now a money grab by the government intended to promote marital separation and destruction of family structure so women will depend on the State for support and vote for more government programs. In today's society, marriage has no real value or purpose.

      [–]askmrcia 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Best comment and explanation of what marriage is. Could not agree more.

      To go back to your religious statement, most people in the USA are no longer religious. I'm seeing people getting married and they don't follow one thing in Christianity or whatever religion they say they are.

      So it's just funny and weird when I see people getting married in a church and some guy reading all this religious mumbo jumbo when the two parties involved aren't even religious to begin with.

      [–]Greek-God-Brody 2 points3 points  (3 children)

      So you're not alone when you get old.

      [–]arandomreddituserrr[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

      I mean if you get divorced then you will be alone, and you'll be worse off than if you never got married.

      [–]The__Tren__Train 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      exactly..

      stay single: be old and alone but have money

      get married and divorced: be old and alone and broke af

      then again, who is to say that your wife will stay alive long enough for you to reach old age..?

      [–]TelicAstraeus 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      truth. I've seen old radical feminists lament their being an anti-man feminist in their youth, since they have nobody, no husband, no kids or family. The family unit is a structure ingrained in us not just through arbitrary societal structures, but it's literally in our genes and our fundamental neurobiology because it helps bring stability to and increases survival likelihood for the individual and the species.

      [–][deleted]  (1 child)

      [deleted]

      [–]askmrcia 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      Did they grow up in a small town and stay in a small town?

      I have cousins and they all married their high son sweet hearts. But that's only because they stayed in bum fuck Indiana lol.

      [–]Thinkingard 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      I dont see anyone mentioning anything about living the full human experience. There are many things you dont just get until you have experienced it for yourself. Marriage mostly, not always, leads to kids. Both aspects of life are radically different from living alone. When I got married and had a kid I noticed my emotional reactions to a lot of movies has changed. It makes me feel like I was a sociopath as a teenager and I think most teens are since most shit doesnt faze them.

      To fully understand the human experience requires action. People born rich have no idea what its like living paycheck to paycheck. Women dont know what its like to be a man. And so on. So again: fuller human experience.

      [–]W_O_M_B_A_T 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      but about 50% of marriages end in divorce, 2/3 of them are initiated by women

      Bullshit. Always be skeptical of excessively rounded statistics.

      it's pretty damn difficult to calculate the realistic divorce rate since in any given year, the vast majority of people who get married or are currently married, haven't divorced yet.

      Don't tell me you don't have a personal bias here. The only way you can get an accurate figure is by waiting 70 years or so until almost all the couples married in a given period have either divorced or died.

      So this 50% is nothing more than a prediction of the future, and as you should know, "experts" are stunningly bad at predicting what will happen even a week from now. Another one of those statistics that some journalist or politician pulled from deep within their sagging rectal cavity.

      The total divorce rate probably peaked in the mid 80's in the mid 40's (projection.) But we don't know because the majority of those people are both still alive and haven't divorced yet. The closer you get to the present, the less accurately you can predict the odds of divorce, due to the information being available being less and less an indicator of the state of existing marriages. Current estimates suggest the odds are in the mid 30's range, if you get married now.

      The flip side of this is that far fewer people are getting married today, of course. So that tends to weed out dysfunctional couples.

      So you should ignore such statistics. You should carefully weigh the qualifiable personal and financial risks. Then ask yourself, if you were in prison and you could trade those for a pardon letter, would you?

      Then, assess the value you're getting out of your relationship right now.

      Forget about what might happen to you in the future. Who cares? People change, circumstances change.

      If you own a successful business, or have significant personal income-earning assets, I'd advise against it. Depending on the laws where you live, having a GF even move in with you might be a big gamble.

      If not, simply get good financial planning advice, get a pre-nup, and invest savings in ways you can easily move or liquidate.

      [–][deleted]  (3 children)

      [deleted]

      [–]The__Tren__Train 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      hey now..

      idk about these guys, but i respact whamen

      [–]mbillion 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      Fatalist calling everybody weak chinned.

      The economy isn't going anywhere

      [–]iqbal002 10 points11 points  (10 children)

      Marriage is not an outdated institution !

      You get married raise "high valued" children by staying sincere to each other ,your children learn from you how to behave with the opposite sex then they get married remain with each other for long term I don't know what happened with OP's parents but that affected him deeply now he is not interested in any LTR even if he marries he will divorce for a simple or even a big reason There is no alternative to marriage It very fundamental part of a society

      [–]TheStumblingWolf 7 points8 points  (0 children)

      A piece of paper will not change whether people can stay together for a long time or not. If anything it'll make it worse because the girl will know the guy isn't going anywhere, thus making her complacent.

      [–]Cunt_Robber 1 point2 points  (2 children)

      My parents are still together (im in my late 20s) and i have the same concerns as OP. They somehow made it work, but nobody knows how. If there was a recipe to follow to guarantee successful marriages, more people might follow it (I guess MRP is one?). Anyway, it's a safe bet to say putting women in charge in human society fucks shit up for the species, with exceptions.

      [–]iqbal002 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      Thats actually the problem with families nowadays Man has forgotten how to be masculine and take incharge

      [–]Cunt_Robber 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Thats it. Thats why we're all here. The best advice you could give for at least 50% of asktrp posts is "stop being a pussy and man up."

      [–]hugaddiction 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Yes but if no kids. Then no point to get married

      [–][deleted]  (2 children)

      [deleted]

        [–]iqbal002 0 points1 point  (1 child)

        I know thats hard but IT could be done

        [–]mbillion 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        A lot of traditional Asians are culturally married but aren't actually married. And they seem to be doing pretty dang good

        [–]giantbollocks 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        If its so fundamental then society needs to fix its fucking flaws because in its current state I will not engage.

        [–]1oldredder 1 point2 points  (3 children)

        I think these days it's cultural-scripting or desperation or a total misunderstanding about how the law will use marriage to fucking rape their ass

        [–]Aptote 2 points3 points  (2 children)

        its both

        men get married because of the cultural delusion thinking it about settling down and raising some kids, which is true and certainly possible, if the man knows how to handle his woman, all will go well and the family will live happily ever after.

        Except that 90%+ of men have NO CLUE about women's nature, so they cannot keep their woman "happy" no matter how much money, muscle, looks, power, etc they offer up to her. those things are only attractive. Women are easy, they crave to submit to a dominant man. They cannot and will not submit to a man that they dominate. A man cannot dominate a woman while he is submissive to her.

        marriage 2.0 is ALL about divorce.

        the true purpose marriage 2.0 (legal state marriage) is to convert natural "families" into a broken "households", usually headed by a woman, via easy (for the wife) divorce and further enslave the man. Instead of voluntarily providing for his family it becomes twisted into coerced/forced "child support"

        happened to me to, because i absolutely had no clue on how to handle women and provide them what they really need, blue pill all the way. I do now, and am well into a hassle free LTR.

        Its happening right now to a guy that i know, for the same reason, he had no idea wtf he is doing was far as handling his woman. He is a great provider, physically strong, not bad looking, etc. he is 'why is she doing this?' 'she hates me! i have done everything! she is ruining me!'

        yes, she is, yet she herself is only a tool for the state's purpose. In the end, it is HIS "fault", (as it was mine). If he could/would only give her the one thing she needs and craves, in the "right now" the divorce would go away like dust in the wind

        I have thrown down his delusion, his wife was NEVER what he "believed" she was or was supposed to be, yet he backslides, he clings to it.

        relationships are a dance, the man has to lead. He won't take the simple and easy dance lesson even though i drive him to the studio door.

        You can lead the horse to water, yet cannot make it drink.

        [–]cellphon 1 point2 points  (1 child)

        Very good comment. This guy knows what's up.

        [–]Aptote 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        This guy knows what's up.

        thanks brother, i am only ever looking for the truth

        i have 60 down votes on another thread...

        [–]11-Eleven-11 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Are you me?

        [–]TelicAstraeus 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        I found this clip from a Jordan Peterson lecture to be insightful, and it seems relevant to the question at hand: Jordan Peterson - The Shackles of Marriage

        The tl;dl of it is: everyone sucks, and if you shackle yourself to someone else who sucks maybe together you'll be slightly less likely to suffer in some ways.

        [–]ECoast_Man 1 point2 points  (3 children)

        There are two reasons, and a bonus third:

        1) Kids. Data is irrefutable that marriage is good for child-rearing: less likely to become criminals or substance abusers, higher incomes, more stable relationships in their lives, etc. There is a reason why pretty much every civilization on Earth has this institution, and this is it.

        2) Money. This is more of a modern thing, but since women "got out of the kitchen" markets have adjusted and in particular real estate. By this I mean, houses are sold at market, and the market value of real estate now takes into account two income stream families. Normal dude making $75k can't afford the same house that other dude and wife can who jointly make $150k. Simple. You're young, but look at rent. When you're out renting you will see couples shacking up in a nicer one bedroom or bachelor than many single people because they can split rent and associated expenses.

        3) The bonus here is specific to certain fields. I work in business law and two of the firms I've worked for I know it was frowned upon for men to still be single after around 30ish. It wouldn't get you canned obviously, and it wasn't official policy, but I know that management want their young men to be married because they believed that it straightens them out and reduces the likelihood of risky behaviour characteristic of men in high stress occupations (alcoholism, drugs, partying generally, depression, etc.). I don't if /u/VasiliyZaitzev found this to be the case? Do you have any comments on this?

        [–]Senior EndorsedVasiliyZaitzev 1 point2 points  (2 children)

        1) Kids. Data is irrefutable that marriage is good for child-rearing....

        Yep. Assuming you want kids.

        2) Money.... Normal dude making $75k can't afford the same house that other dude and wife can who jointly make $150k. Simple.

        If you don't need a 4BR house, i.e., for kids, do you care? I mean I bought one, but that involved market opportunity (thank you "Great Recession") and good credit. Once guys have given up on marriage and family, they don't give a shit about having a big fancy house or 2 graduate degrees.

        3) The bonus here is specific to certain fields. I work in business law and two of the firms I've worked for I know it was frowned upon for men to still be single after around 30ish.

        I can't say anyone has ever given a shit about me not having a wife. Sometimes, co-workers have tried to set me up "rescue projects" - middle-aged women with cankles and multiple kids, so I politely explain that I am not running an "outreach program" for entitled women where I get to raise someone else's bastards.

        I think firms probably gave a shit about this stuff from the 50s to the 70s, then it started falling off and in the 90s, nobody cared anymore. On the hire side, you're not allowed to ask about certain stuff, but I've also told interviewers that I was a bachelor with a month to month lease and they dug that in terms of my ability to relocate.

        In my last three gigs (which covers >20 years) I was also the 24k gold answer to a problem that my then bosses had - in the second gig, the guy who wound up being my boss told me 15 minutes into the interview he was going to hire me, even though he had 2 more interviews to do, and to tell him if I got another offer.

        In my current gig (10+ years) my boss is also single (he got divorced before I was hired) so he certainly doesn't give a shit, and the guys in the C-suite like that I'm a baller and tend to live a vicariously through me a bit.

        YMMV.

        [–]ECoast_Man 1 point2 points  (1 child)

        Really? So you've never come across a preference for married men in big law? Not that I don't believe you, I'm just surprised because I've seen it for sure in two of the three gigs I've had... Maybe just coincidence.

        See here's what I've found. I've had perks to be "the single guy" because I am always called upon to travel for work because I don't have a wife or kids to miss me (which I like anyway, and my airmiles credit card really likes), and I was often the filler for a seat at fundraisers and that when there is just one seat left. I'm sick of them now, but I liked it at the time.

        On the other hand, one of best friends was married and he had other advantages. A huge one being he would take old rich guy client out to dinner with his wife because it just fits better to go as two couples than three. The married ones would frequently do shit together (BBQs, dinners, shit like that) that single people didn't get to do. I would honestly say on the whole the married ones probably have the edge in my experience. This is why I brought it up, that there can be a third reason for marriage and that is to forward your career, like Bill and Hillary or whatever, just in business not politics.

        [–]Senior EndorsedVasiliyZaitzev 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        So you've never come across a preference for married men in big law?

        I've been an in-house guy for 95% of my career. There are too many dysfunctional personalities in BigLaw (no offense) and since I operate at Lvl 99 DGAF I'd last about 10 minutes because I would not be shy about detailing their defects for them.

        Not being a golfer has handicapped me (pun intended) more than not having a wife - I have a woman I can bring to such events who can handle herself socially with C-suite men and their wives. These days, often enough, spouses aren't included on business dinners etc. (although sometimes they are). Just like with people I work with, some of our clients live vicariously through me, and the wife of one of our top 3 customers loves me to death for whatever reasons. So never been a problem for me.

        [–]chief-w 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Part of it is social tradition: vestiges of the contract between families stuff mentioned earlier that prioritises commitment over short term urges.

        Part of it is religious morality: abstinence before message etc. No Pussy is worth hell if you believe in that. (Though a lot of Christians do not take their religion very seriously)

        Part of it is blue pill oneitus: too many blue pillers in the world.

        [–]Burlaczech 1 point2 points  (19 children)

        if nobody got married, how many people will be in your country in 100 years? To most, passing your genes to the next generation is their meaning of life. Vast majority of those that dont, will be forgotten forever.

        [–][deleted]  (4 children)

        [deleted]

          [–]Burlaczech 4 points5 points  (2 children)

          I am certainly glad my parents are married and if I ever decide to have kids of my own, I will be as well. Why would you have kids without marriage? Just because you can doesnt mean its the best option.

          [–][deleted]  (1 child)

          [deleted]

            [–]Burlaczech 2 points3 points  (0 children)

            Nothing against that, but I surely know I do not want it like that people getting voluntarily married (not talking about forced, teen or stupid marriages) see it the same way.

            I wouldnt want my kid to see his dad and mother are in a free relationship -> family institution is very conservative for me. But I dont think this topic is too TRP related so I dont think elaborating these issues here is proper.

            [–]Thinkingard 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            But you should if you prefer civilization over despotism.

            [–]cellphon 1 point2 points  (13 children)

            Well everyone is going to be forever forgotten.

            How much do you know about your great great grand parents? They sacrificed and raised your forefathers and now are also forgotten.

            [–]Burlaczech 1 point2 points  (12 children)

            Their herritage is still here - in me. And I remember my grandparents just like I want my kids to remember me, and their kids. Thats the meaning of life, the cycle. If you wanna leave the cycle, you can, but then it will end.

            [–]cellphon 1 point2 points  (11 children)

            I didn't ask about your grandparens I asked about your grand grand parents. Point being, unless you became very famous you will be forgotten in two or three generations regardless of your character, sacrifices and achievements.

            [–]Burlaczech 2 points3 points  (10 children)

            Its a philosophy, I cant tell you what is right or wrong, you either believe in it, feel it, or you do not.

            If you dont care about it, nobody will ever remember you, if you care about it, you will be remembered.

            My ancestors were peasants and serfs - nothing to remember about them (on a professional or fame level, as we understand it today in the pop-culture), except I wouldnt be here, unless they did what they did, which I am grateful for.

            I dont think these debates are really fit for TRP subreddit.

            [–]cellphon 0 points1 point  (9 children)

            Idk I think it does fit because it will dictate how you live your life and what matters to you.

            I guess I'm having a minor existential crisis of nothing really being important.

            [–]Burlaczech 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            if you think in a bigger picture of the universe, life, civilization, family, whatever - it makes sense.

            if you care about having a good time and not about future past your own existence (or even your productive years, which will end around 50-80y), then you dont have to bother about it

            [–]TelicAstraeus 1 point2 points  (7 children)

            I think you might benefit from this clip from a jordan peterson lecture: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjpuxiV-_Es

            [–]cellphon 2 points3 points  (6 children)

            Big fan of Peterson. Whats your favorite lecture by him? His Joe Rogan podcast was tight.

            [–]TelicAstraeus 0 points1 point  (5 children)

            well i haven't watched/listened to all of them, mostly just the rogan interviews, the maps of meaning 2017 course, and various clips.

            It's hard to pin down which is my favorite since he's covered several topics that really blew me away. If I had to pin one topic down though, i suppose it would be when he speaks about the concept of rescuing one's dead/blind father, the story of horus and osiris, and the value of christianity as an evolved philosophy that has enabled western civilization to flourish - and that despite it's issues, when the bloody marxists and postmodernists act without its influence, everything turns to chaos and authoritarianism.

            It has renewed my conviction to ask myself what Jesus would do as the archetype of the perfect man when I'm in a challenging position, and to attempt to embody that. It's given me a much greater respect for the bible and christianity as a whole - and i say this as someone who has been a "weak atheist" for years.

            [–]cellphon 1 point2 points  (4 children)

            As a strong atheist I'm having a hard time getting into his religious stuff.

            Did you watch the entire maps of meaning? What's your biggest insight? I was meaning to watch that soon.

            [–]Mudpielol 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            Probably to have kids.

            [–]FlyingSexistPig 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            For many, it is a non-negotiable social convention.

            [–]GreenPiller 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            Young people fall in love. The young guys is relatively alpha, girl is madly in love, they fuck every day, oxytocin is at an all time high, why not get married? Then shit tests increase, young guy starts breaking frame, wife is dried up and unhappy, sex decreases, divorce ensues.

            [–]Aptote 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            as far as why men get married under marriage 2.0

            reason

            [–]Peter_B_Long 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            Before I found TRP, I always felt that my marriage would be different. My parents got divorced too. But I felt like I would have something special and that I was capable of having a forever after with the love of my life.

            Now of course I know better. I'm probably never getting married (maybe when I'm 35+ (currently 23)), but I can understand why people get married now. I can see why women get married (resources), and guys get married to tie a woman down and because that's what we're supposed to do.

            [–]The__Tren__Train 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            the only difference between marriage and an LTR, is that in marriage, a woman has a massive financial incentive to leave.

            [–]LordThunderbolt 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            They do it because that's what they've been told to do.