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As a red piller, what's the goal of pursuing a LTR if there are no unicorns? (self.asktrp)

submitted by fade2clear

I'm sure this has been posted before but couldn't find it in search. In this context, lets ignore the reasoning of wanting to start a family and have kids. Why would you, personally, want an LTR? Knowing the possibility of hypergamy, disrespect, and the constant power struggle?

Is it better to look at it from a utility standpoint? What you can get out of her, instead of being enamored WITH her?

I'm trying to figure out if it's worth it for me. Maybe she gives you great sex, you do fun things together, buys you things, and have good conversation. Is that enough to put up with the downsides in a relationship? I would find it hard to fully trust anyone at this point, even if I was the most alpha Chad the world over.

Based on what I've read, the ideal woman that most people here would consider LTR-worthy sound just like unicorns, which we know don't exist. At some point in an LTR, you're going to experience slight disrespect and manipulation, even if you don't realize it and you think you're the top alpha dog. You can't really trust women, so you're having to swallow your pride somewhat.

What's the healthiest way to look at LTRs if you're red pilled? How do you justify it?


[–]jay_jay_man 73 points74 points  (12 children)

Based on what I've read, the ideal woman that most people here would consider LTR-worthy sound just like unicorns

That's because you're reading the opinions of a diverse group of men living in just about everywhere. If you read all the requirements put together a woman would need to possess every positive attribute that ever existed. This woman can only exist in dreams and imagination with the likes of Superman and the Incredible Hulk. Total fiction.

Is an LTR worth it, yes, but certain criteria needs to be met.

  1. You must be a high value man with a mission. (being a rudderless Chad Thudercock isn't going to cut it)
  2. You must know your core values and your mission has to align with your core values
  3. You and her primary values need to align with yours
  4. She must be willing to put your mission first (believes in you and submits)

Then and only then will a LTR be worth it, when you and your mission are the #1 priority in her life and she's helping you to achieve it. That's why single mothers are automatically disqualified for LTRs; because their child will always come before you (and your mission).

A red pilled guy wrote a book specifically dealing with LTRs. It's called The Tactical Guide to Women by Shawn Smith

[–]chomponthebit 18 points19 points  (4 children)

And if you and your wife have children, her children will still come before you and your mission. Children > husband/father. Always

[–]PIGamer86 23 points24 points  (0 children)

I mean, I put our kids in front of my wife too.

Ryan Reynolds once said, 'I used to say to [my wife], "I would take a bullet for you. I could never love anything as much as I love you." I would say that to my wife. And the second I looked in that baby's eyes, I knew in that exact moment that if we were ever under attack, I would use my wife as a human shield to protect that baby.'

I wouldn’t expect my wife to feel any different. I wouldn’t want her to.

[–]jay_jay_man 15 points16 points  (1 child)

Wrong, teens and young adults get kicked out of the family home everyday of the year once they act contradictory to the family mission. In many homes, if baby Timmy starts doing drugs, turns into a criminal, accuses the dad of molestation as a way of attacking him, etc, Timmy gets the boot.

It hurts both parents but dad knows it must be done for baby Timmy to grow up and mom trusts Dad's judgment.

I know you must have heard stories about children getting kicked out of the home for one reason or another. Now obviously there's a limit to this, breast feed babies and young helpless children aren't going to get the boot like an older child would but even they aren't immune, kids get put up for adoption, shipped off to relatives, or even send to boarding school.

[–]Gainznsuch 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This happened to a buddy of mine when he was in high school

[–]Aggressive_Beta 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Your biological children should come before her too. And there’s nothing wrong with putting your biological children ahead of your mission either

[–]Dallas36 1 point2 points  (1 child)

What’s the difference between core and primary values?

[–]jay_jay_man 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Core values can be varied but your primary values is the most important one or the two most important ones that influence the general direction you take in life.

For example, if your primary value is power. You might have aspirations of being a politician and be eager to attend all the political and social events you can attend to build your network. On the other hand, if your LTR primary values are family and health, with power coming in a third or fourth importance, your LTR won't share your enthusiasm to attend political events and will soon resent all the time you invest going to them.

She'll want to spend that time doing things like hiking, building her dream house, having you around to raise 2 or 3 kids together. She would be happier in the long run with a homebody who owns his own gym and is the president of their school parent-teacher association rather than an aspiring politician.

[–]RedHoodhandles 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Never heard of that book. Worth the read?

[–]jay_jay_man 1 point2 points  (0 children)

For LTRs and masculinity in general, definitely. It's recommended by Richard Cooper (Entrepreneurs in Cars). If you follow red pill content on Youtube, you've probably come across his channel. Here's a review he did: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_MRUO5RiQM

[–]4matting 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If he suggested it, then he probably recommends it...

[–]FuneralWithAnR 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Had to downvote to upvote again.

[–]nabosch 52 points53 points  (15 children)

I have an LTR because I enjoy the captain, co-captain dynamic and I have better things to do on the weekends than game women at this point in my life.

Great steady sex is always good as well.

But at the end of the day, if she leaves or cheats, she leaves or cheats. Her loss. I'm doing me.

[–]fade2clear[S] 11 points12 points  (4 children)

That's the best way to look at it I suppose. It seems as if most folks on TRP tend to refrain from relationships altogether to prevent those possibilities from ever happening. Maybe in an attempt to protect their ego. Nobody wants to be played.

[–]nabosch 9 points10 points  (3 children)

Yea it might happen. It's never happened to me though.

I keep my shit together and am fun to be around. I work a full-time job, have a side hustle, play in a band, and surprise her with fun dates when she earns them.

Most guys work a full-time job they hate, come home and watch Netflix and get fucked up on the weekends.

No wonder they don't get women.

[–]fade2clear[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

That's a healthy way of looking at it for sure.

But where do you draw the line at disrespect when you know women will do what they do(eventually)? Do you drop them at the first mis-step? Since most guys come from beta beginnings here, it seems logical to prove themselves worthy by not tolerating even the most minor act of misbehavior, but you saw it coming because AWALT. That's a common attitude I see here often. You basically just put up with them until they start doing what they're wired to do, and you catch on to it. That's just my observation, since she's not yours of course...

That's why I brought up the point about seeing LTR's as utility and what you can ultimately gain from it.

[–]nabosch 1 point2 points  (0 children)

First, you date, non-exclusively. You hang out with women, put them in situations where you test their character. If they do something you don't approve of, no big deal, you're dating and you never need to see them again, drop contact.

You keep putting them in situations and spending time with them in general and eventually one will remain that stand out from the rest. That one has a chance at the LTR with you.

It's called vetting.

You weed out the undesirables until you find the one you can trust. Yes AWALT but it doesn't mean all women will, especially for you, since you dropped the ones that don't fit into your lifestyle and frame.

[–]alpha_in_progress 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How did u get into your band? I live in NYC and one of the things I wanna due is 1) learn guitar /any instrument and 2) play in a band. Thx in advanced

[–]CocaineOnYourClit 1 point2 points  (9 children)

Great steady sex is always good as well.

I have better things to do on the weekends than game women at this point in my life.

Doesnt having a rotation of plates accomplish both of these?

[–]nabosch 2 points3 points  (5 children)

It does, but with much more balancing with more of my mental game attributed that rather than work or one woman.

[–]CocaineOnYourClit 0 points1 point  (4 children)

LTR game is TRP on hardmode though, it has only started after you committ

[–]nabosch 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Hard mode if you don't keep up on your shit and you pick a shitty chick to be your LTR.

[–]CocaineOnYourClit 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You'll have to LTR a girl 2 points below your SMV for it to be easier than spinning plates

[–]CocaineOnYourClit 1 point2 points  (1 child)

you pick a shitty chick to be your LTR

Just pick a unicorn bro

[–]nabosch 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Recite the RP buzzwords some more bro

[–]master_beta89 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Multiple plates is more work than one good woman

[–]CocaineOnYourClit 2 points3 points  (1 child)

They say LTR is TRP on hardmode for a reason

[–]whitepois0n 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Dude. He's has an LTR and it's working. Get outside and actually experience what you prefer instead of formulating some shit in your head.

[–]JerryLawlerPigFace 14 points15 points  (0 children)

I like to always keep the mantra “you cannot threaten a man that does not care” in the back of my mind.

When you get to a place of abundance and outcome independence by way of upping your SMV, reading, meditation, lifting, etc. you can truly be at peace with just yourself. You understand hat you don’t necessarily need an LTR, but you do understand that one could be fun. It can be an added bonus to an already great life.

You sound like you already understand and accept what is rational. An LTR will more than likely not last forever, accept that. Any sort of emotional investment (which is fine with an LTR) will cause feelings of sadness/withdrawal to a certain degree once its over, its normal, but accept that too.

If you accept these things and are ok, truly ok with them, then I do think an LTR could be worth pursuing. It is indeed to aid your life, not to “save” her, if that makes any sense

[–]1ANGRY_ATHEIST 14 points15 points  (2 children)

TRP is a toolbox. It does not dictate what your goals should be. Use the toolbox as you see fit.

[–]fade2clear[S] 3 points4 points  (1 child)

I'm starting to realize that more and more. There is no definitive red-pill way of handling certain situations.

[–]1morescoobysnacks 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Outside of "pussy and tits", game and big muscles really can't tell you what you enjoy. But speaking for myself, having abundance didn't fulfill me too much. I just don't have to waste too much time to get laid anymore. Just another mountain in an endless range.

[–]TRP VanguardWhisper 17 points18 points  (4 children)

You don't pursue an LTR. You pursue sex.

Girls pursue an LTR.

[–]fade2clear[S] 2 points3 points  (3 children)

Committing or engaging would have been a better word choice instead of pursuing. My bad. I mean just going forward with a LTR.

[–]TRP VanguardWhisper 9 points10 points  (2 children)

It's not about word choice. It's a real distinction.

You don't look for an LTR or go forward with one, any more than a girl looks at a spreadsheet, weighs the pros and cons, and decides whether to have sex with you.

A woman's role in sex is passive. She interacts with you, and you work to inspire lust in her. If you do your job well enough, sex.

Same way, your role in starting an LTR is passive. You interact with her, and she works to inspire emotional investment in you. If she does her job well enough, you'll start to catch feelings, and your behaviour will reflect that. Your only role is that you can consciously put the brakes on the process if you spot red flags. Otherwise, it's all up to her.

You are not empowered to make relationships happen. You just have to sit there and see if she plays her cards right, maybe give some feedback if you're feeling merciful and can do it without killing the vibe.

But you have no more control over whether a girl is LTR-worthy than she does over whether you are sex worthy.

[–]fade2clear[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Very well put. So in other words, there shouldn't be a verbal agreement that takes place at any point in time that verifies commitment? It's just assumed after a period of time and amount of investment?

[–]TRP VanguardWhisper 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Women love verbal commitment, and they tend to push for it, but when instructing on RPW, I try to get them to realize that it's meaningless, and that pushing for it too hard actually tends to rub men the wrong way.

The relationship isn't the verbal commitment. As a man, you know this. It's obvious to you that you could give it one day, and rescind it the next. It's useless if it's not backed by emotional investment, and its superfluous if it is.

The girl game skill of getting from sex to LTR isn't some manipulative process where she, by social maneuvering, gets you to utter the magic words, and then she somehow has you snared. What it is instead is the things she does that change how you feel about her, so that you want to stay, so that you are invested in her, so that you care about whether she is happy or not.

Men don't give verbal commitment as some sort of boundary marker. Instead, they are usually informing her of something that has already happened inside them, because they want her to be happy.

[–]helaughsinhidden 4 points5 points  (4 children)

A unicorn by definition is a woman who is NOT subject to the AWALT characteristics such as hypergamy, hamstering, solipsism, etc. This doesn't mean that all women are bad, just that you are not going to find one that is exempt to those inclinations and some, are way WAY more subject to them than others. The idea that you could find a true "unicorn" would suggest that all the RP ideas would instantly become unnecessary as you've found a woman who is fully loyal and dedicated without any required efforts on your part.

That said, if you find a high value woman that you are very attracted to and she is satisfied with you as her captain and not settling which would cause future resentment, the two of you can build a much better life together working to the same goal than you could on your own in most cases.

My wife has helped me maintain out homes, finances, have a healthy family, explore our sexuality, build businesses, advance my career, build a ministry, and expand and improve my social network. In all honesty, she brings a ton of value to my life and the amount that she enhances it continues to grow the more I improve and implement more red pill and for me biblical ideals into our lives.

EDIT: Full disclosure, when I let myself slip into betadom in my 20's, shit tests were constant because I became a man not worthy of respect, admiration, attraction and offered no dread. Her AWALT side flared up like herpes blisters on a whore wearing wet jean shorts while riding a bicycle.

[–]fade2clear[S] 3 points4 points  (3 children)

Your edit is essentially what I'm trying to come to terms with.

Is there a reason you didn't dump her for those AWALT actions? To use some logic spewed around here, you're a beta cuck for not nexting her. And definitely not red pilled. There seems to be a black and white view of that in this community. There's not much in between. Either you're Chad or you're a beta pushover with no abundance. Is that to create a safety net so nobody gets burned in the long run?

But you still perceived value in her so you stuck around...I think that confirms that being red-pilled just means being aware. You can act however you see fit, as long as you can deal with the consequences(not so easy sometimes). Not everybody can be the textbook Chad, so you have to act accordingly.

[–]Garathon 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I see it as I'm aware of the probable consequences and stoic and strong enough to handle them.

[–]PlzBuffBeamu 0 points1 point  (0 children)

IMO sometimes you have to be self aware enough to realize that you’re being a little bitch and that’s why your woman is treating you like one. RP is all about perspective and awareness it’s on you to use it.

Textbook Chad is for spinning plates, if you’re not big on spinning plates well then you have to throw in slight beta for an LTR. Most of the time I don’t read TRP at all anymore, the RP material that really resonated with me was The Book of Pook I really recommend it.

[–]Corvus_Uraneus 4 points5 points  (4 children)

Children, and marriage is the best institution for raising them.

[–]Aggressive_Beta -1 points0 points  (3 children)

Why marriage instead of an LTR? That makes no sense. Marriage is a terrible idea.

[–]Corvus_Uraneus 1 point2 points  (2 children)

You need to be in an LTR to know if a woman is wifable.
You're right, marriage is a bad deal for a man. But if you want a child, raised right, you roll that dice. If you can get over that biological need to replicate your genes, NEVER marry.

[–]Aggressive_Beta 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Why do you need to be married in order for a child to be raised “right”?

[–]Big_Daddy_PDX 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Who would even want a Porsche 911 turbo? I mean, they can’t carry plywood from Home Depot and only the two of us from the Dungeons & Dragon’s club can drive anywhere. Don’t get me started on the terrible gas mileage or the maintenance costs!

Moderation and compromise my Dude. Life is about managing a balance. Understanding there aren’t unicorns just helps to make sure you don’t incorrectly pedestalize your LTR. There’s a time a place for that.

[–]TFWnoLTR 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Because I want an LTR.

[–]okaybut1stcoffee 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Women are not for your utility. If you can be on the same team, be in a LTR. If you can’t handle teamwork then stay alone. It’s only a power struggle if you make it one.

[–]BusterVadge 1 point2 points  (3 children)

I prefer LTRs. Dating takes a shit ton of time and I'm a busy dad with a busy career. LTR cuts out that bullshit and if you're ok with getting your needs met by one woman (mostly), it's ideal.

Although I am in between LTRs right now I have to say that it's not a bad thing to be banging 28 and 29 year olds at the age of 44!

[–]btrpb 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Similar situation here. Dating is fun, but tiring. Rolling with a nice girl for 6, 12, 18 months, enjoying the bond is where it's at. Walking away when you've had enough feels a lot easier in your 40s with TRP knowledge.

[–]BusterVadge 1 point2 points  (1 child)

It is, but there is definitely something CRAZIER about women now than they were when I was like 20.

[–]btrpb 2 points3 points  (0 children)

No. Your SMV is higher and they are willing to do more dirty shit ;)

[–]2chazthundergut 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You will never find a unicorn.

But you can become a better lion tamer.

[–]Peter_B_Long 1 point2 points  (0 children)

IMO, with time and patience, you want to eventually find someone who supplements your life in every way. She provides sexual relief, she cooks, cleans, takes care of minor things for you so you can focus on your mission.

The "healthiest" way to look for an LTR is to spin plates and vet them for potential commitment. You definitely want to have options at all times and you must will be willing to drop them the first second red flags begin to surface.

Never think of any one girl as different or exceptional. Always remember that AWALT.

You also need to know what you're looking for. Other men's preferences may not be what you like. KNOW what you're looking for before you start locking someone down.

I've been dating my LTR for almost 3 months now and I've had minuscule to no problems. She's done my laundry, she's cooked, she'll drive 30 minutes to bring me lunch on her days off, she'll try anything that I want to try, she'll go anywhere that I want to go. When we're with my friends, she urges me to spend time with them and not worry about her. She respects my privacy. She meal preps with me and goes to the gym with me.

Okay so she's not only pretty much like my personal assistant, but she also pushes me in a sort of convenient way where she'll remind me of something that needs to get done, that maybe I've been putting off. Like she'll remind me to check the tire pressure in my tires, she'll ask if I'm going to post some new content on IG today for my freelance work. She'll just subtly remind me of little things I've mentioned to her in a way that doesn't pressure me, but just reminds me that I need to do these things.

Her sex drive is even bigger than mine. I've never had to ask for sex or been the one to mostly initiate it. I'll slap her ass and she'll be wet already. There's been times where I've had to tell her no for sex.

So although this chick supplements my life a ton, I know that AWALT. I know that there's always the possibility that she'll one day cheat on me and I know that although I'm appreciate her a lot and value her, I need to be ready to drop her at any minute if she crosses a boundary I can't forgive.

[–]OfficerWade 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Everyone is going to give off red flags. She might be beautiful in one area but in another may suffer. This area which she suffers is where her lesson in life are coming and is your job to show her it’s not that bad.

So if you think of roses and blue sky’s what sorta expectation does that have for your women to live up too? It’s impossible for one person to meet all your needs.

[–]Chadster113 4 points5 points  (2 children)

To value women in a correct and healthy way

[–]fade2clear[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

which is?

[–]Chadster113 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ughhh sidebar

[–]Evel-Kylenievel 2 points3 points  (10 children)

You don’t want to pursue an LTR, she does, the more you resist the better it is.

[–]fade2clear[S] 2 points3 points  (9 children)

I mean you have to pursue it enough to accept it eventually. It doesn't just happen.

[–]Evel-Kylenievel -4 points-3 points  (8 children)

It does just happen if you keep her around but don’t seek her commitment. Women are the gatekeepers of the relationship, it doesn’t happen until she decides she values you enough to try and make you commit.

[–]fade2clear[S] 11 points12 points  (7 children)

Women are the gatekeepers of the relationship

I've read the exact opposite hundreds of times before on TRP.

[–]jay_jay_man 6 points7 points  (0 children)

women are the gatekeepers to sex, men are the gatekeepers to relationship.

what /u/Evel-Kylenievel is trying to say is that the woman should be the one to initiate wanting a relationship (even if you wanted one from the day you met her). the man should not be the one to bring it up. once the woman brings it up, it's up to us men to upgrade her status, keep it the same, or break it off completely. men are the gatekeepers to relationships.

[–]supersonic-turtle 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Find a red pill woman, procreate, pray to the gods she doesn't fuck you up in a divorce(if she's red pill she will want marriage and likely not divorce rape you should it not work out). Unicorn? Nah, rare? Definitely.

[–]HeadingRed 0 points1 point  (0 children)

For me its a few things - you can agree or not

  1. I get bored easily - if I find a woman who holds my interest it makes me happy and I want sex more.

  2. Family and work - having a steady date for events and social obligations

  3. She doesn't break your balls - or at least not yet - like all the others. And you want steady sex and companionship without getting your nuts crushed 3x a week.

  4. Most important - its what you want and you truly know what you want. DO NOT be the guy that says "I want a LTR" and then start with whatever your sleeping with now. Know what you want and then look for it. Too many guys just have a switch that gets flipped and they just lock-in to whatever woman they are with at the time.

[–]si1ma31 0 points1 point  (0 children)

> In this context, lets ignore the reasoning of wanting to start a family and have kids

Why? I take it you already agree that that's one reason and want to explore others.

The unicorn thing is a good way to think about it when learning as it helps you see outside the typical BP upbringing. The mindset applies most to the party girl scene who will walk away from you the moment she gets a chance to be a boat ho in a rich guy's harem.

But of course, it's not actually a unicorn event to meet a compatible LTR partner. Even if it's with an alpha widow who learned the hard way.

The flip side of the stats (50% divorce rate, X% infidelity rate), is that 1-X% are not divorced, have not cheated, etc.

Healthy way is to get experienced and skilled so that you can screen better and be able to LTR better. An ounce of recruiting beats a pound of coaching.

[–]Original_Dankster -1 points0 points  (1 child)

"...what's the goal of pursuing a LTR if there are no unicorns?"

Short answer: There isn't

[–]SpinPlates -1 points0 points  (0 children)

3somes.

Get you a hot, cool and bisexual girl and game together.

The only reason I see to LTR a girl.