I don’t wanna be a sucker and spend so much time and money on a girl who doesn’t sleep with with me, but then I don’t want a hoe. What’s the happy medium? (self.asktrp)

submitted by TopherOHoolihan

Obviously if she bangs you on your first interaction, that’s not wife material. In theory the longer she waits the more she is wifey, with the perfect situation being a girl who is a virgin and saving it for marriage. But since virtually every girl fucks prior to marriage now, i would feel like a simp if im on date 10 and no sex since theres prob some other dude she banged on date 2. So how do i know if a girl is holding out on sex because she’s wife material (virgin or at least very conservative) or if it’s because she just basically wants me to be her beta bucks while some other dude in the past (or currently) she let smash right away? Help me discern this please, thank you

[–]TheBadGoy 87 points88 points  (15 children)

The term wife material is obsolete nowadays, modern women aren't black and white, they are either non virgins, semi sluts, sluts, goldiggers, and prostitutes. It's a pick your poison game, so its safe to assume that if she isn't having sex with you, you are her beta bucks.

[–]TheBrokenRuler 28 points29 points  (1 child)

Yep. All women are getting dick- whether it's your dick or someone else's is your choice. (then she'll fuck other dudes too, 90% of the time)

[–]MakeMenGreatAgain44 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Man I love this comment

[–]equilibrium57 10 points11 points  (1 child)

Fuck. Truth hurts.

[–]markinsinz7 6 points7 points  (0 children)

It's worse than you can imagine. I've seen every possible angel that you can think of that are fuckin hoes left right n center.

I've seen weak af beta soyboys ugly as they come hookup date n what not with some seriously decent looking women. It's all about timing, circumstances and luck.

And if u get jacked n meet basic minimum levels of attractiveness man then(dependin where u live) its water from a tap.

But it'll jade the fuck out of u. Still though I've read here plenty of endorsed contributors that get into LTRs and stuff cause in the end it doesn't matter. She's some fun company and fuckin random hot pussy gets old.

[–]thomas_ja 6 points7 points  (9 children)

How do you explain my happily married parents?

[–]TheKarmicWoosh 32 points33 points  (1 child)

Did they get married within the last 10-15 years? No. Irrelevant.

[–]thomas_ja 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Yea I guess that makes sense

[–]writewhereileftoff 7 points8 points  (4 children)

Damn son you must be very young for your parents to be millenials.

[–]BurningOrangeHeaven 5 points6 points  (3 children)

Internet + rise of feminism whats different now. Hoes are literally rolemodels now for these chicks.

[–]omega_dawg93 4 points5 points  (1 child)

kim kardashian is having meetings with the president.

that explains a lot about women and society today.

[–]whiskyjeezus 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Now yuo see

[–]br0kencircuit 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Cracking up from this comment

[–]LifeLikeFire_ 7 points8 points  (0 children)

You don't know the whole story

[–]nofilmynofucky 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Wife material girls have become so rare they might as well be extinct.

One of the lesser discussed taboos of TRP.

[–]Endorsed ContributorAuvergnat 48 points49 points  (19 children)

If a girl is holding out on sex with you, it's because she's not physically aroused by you.

Maybe just maybe you can find a girl who has so high morals, and so good an education, that she will manage to hold out for 2, 3 or 4 dates. But that should be painfully obvious in her attitude that she's dying to fuck you and that "having to hold out like God told me to" is killing her inside. If she looks like she has no interest in fucking you anytime soon, then her "good girl attitude" is a front she's putting to cover the fact that she's not attracted to you and she's trying to see how much she can extract from you in exchange for pussy.

What you're wrong with is in assuming that a girl who sleeps with you on the first date is not "wife material". If she was so aroused by you that she could not wait at all, taking on the massive risk of possibly loosing you because you'd find her too easy, it could be a good indicator that she perceives your SMV to be far above hers, which is good conditions for a LTR.

What you want to judge a potential LTR on, is not whether she hold out the first sex or not, but how she acts with you and around you when you're in a sexual relationship. As per HSP's guide to managing your bitches, upgrading a girl in the hierarchy is dependent on her cooking you meals, making you thoughtful gifts, do something you ask her to, basically all those little non-sexual attentions that show she really really cares about making a good impression on you.

"How fast she sleeps with you after meet" is NOT a good indicator of whether a girl is "wife-material" or not. This is typical mainstream, blue-pill, tradcon advice. Typical "madonna-whore" dichotomy. Uproot this from your brain and rely instead on actually good indicators: is she craving to fuck you? Is she craving to make a good impression on you? Is she afraid to lose you?

[–]xddm2653 15 points16 points  (0 children)

What you're wrong with is in assuming that a girl who sleeps with you on the first date is not "wife material"

these noobies fail to realize, a girl could have passed on 100 guys but was so attracted to you she fucked you on the first date. And they think she's a slut. Have some god damn confidence, you made her into a slut

[–]RealisticKiwi 2 points3 points  (1 child)

You might be true. The best wife material would probably fuck brad pitt or whoever she loves on the first sight in hopes of locking him down, because there might be no other chance for her with brad pitt

[–]TopherOHoolihan[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Haha, true. I think we need to return to the red pill truth, which is that AWALT, and unless you have strict patriarchal laws in place preventing hypergamy, their nature will always reveal itself.

Edit- the people downvoting can you explain whats untrue about that?

[–]markinsinz7 0 points1 point  (1 child)

How do u become ok with her absolute whore of a past. I'm not angry just having a hard time accepting their nature despite knowing there is nothing I can do about it other than accept it. But that makes dating fuckin hard

[–]COORDOORS 0 points1 point  (0 children)

plate game for life. abundance mentality helps immensely with this. if you have multiple girls then you never get overly invested in one to the point where you start male hamstering about her past.

[–]TopherOHoolihan[S] -1 points0 points  (13 children)

those are just indicators of how she feels in the moment and can change. Looking at her overall life history and behaviours seems like a better indicator to me

[–]TheRedPillMonkey 2 points3 points  (10 children)

Don't worry about when she first slept with you. Worry about her N count to LTR ratio if you want some historic information.

Even then, you're putting this all on her and none of it on you. LTRs and marriage are considered hard-mode because you always need to maintain frame. Her running to chad thunder cock is a direct result of her thinking she has a shot with a higher smv guy. You either dropped smv, or she has the frame over you and thinks she can just get away with whatever because you're a pussy.

The only indicators you need to worry about is how into you she is, and how submissive she is. Everything else is on you and your frame.

Also, build abundance. Never peruse a ltr or marriage. It's your job to want sex, its her job to want commitment. Let her seek it and you grant it. The the way around just leads to oneitis, losing frame, becoming and orbiter, and you blaming women for all your fucking failures.

[–]TopherOHoolihan[S] 1 point2 points  (9 children)

🙏👏👏 beautiful. Although wouldn’t you agree that with no fault divorce in our society now, and the fact that she can rape you in divorce court, doesn’t this auto make her have power over you?

[–]TheRedPillMonkey 1 point2 points  (8 children)

If you think she has power over you, then you shouldn't be seeking marriage, now should you?

[–]TopherOHoolihan[S] 0 points1 point  (7 children)

Im saying you can have way more power than her, but as soon as she locks you into that marriage contract, boom it shifts to her. The only way to avoid this is to marry a richer girl but then shell be ugly. What are your thoughts on this?

[–]TheRedPillMonkey 0 points1 point  (6 children)

Like I said, if you think that then why risk marriage?

In reality, that's bluepill bullshit thinking. She wants to be there. She thinks you're the highest smv guy she can get and is glad to be a part of your kingdom. Dropping frame and therefore smv is what will make her leave. If you treat her like she has the power, then she does, she'll lower your smv, and it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy when she eventually divorces you.

[–]TopherOHoolihan[S] 0 points1 point  (5 children)

I get what you are saying, but what about when says “you know i can divorce you and take half your shit and sue you for alimony right?So you better act right”- how fo you pass that shit test?

[–]TheRedPillMonkey 0 points1 point  (4 children)

It's a shit test. How do you handle any of them? Ignore? Agree and amplify?

Personally, i'd say "go for it" and go back to what it is that I was doing.

[–]TopherOHoolihan[S] 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Ballsy. I like it. Last question and then i’ll leave you alone- so you really believe that how she treats you is always 100% up to you? Even if she has factors pulling her away from loyalty like a slutty friend, corrupt media, weak pair bonding due to a lot of partners etc, if she doesn’t think she can do better she won’t leave, even with all those?

[–]S2KMo 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I was with this girl who I thought was wifey material. She was 18 and a virgin. We waited for 6 months to have sex and I also falsely assumed that this made her more wifey material than other girls who were desperate to lose their virginity. After 2 years of dating her, she finally started experimenting with other guys... and well, hard lesson learned. Don’t make the same mistake. Like others have noted, there are much better indicators for wifey material

[–]TopherOHoolihan[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I like the n-count to LTR ratio, basically does she commit to the guys she bangs or does she dip

[–]Musicgoon 41 points42 points  (9 children)

You are over Thinking it like a blue pill provider guy. Why aren't you working on your abundance? Date a bunch of women and choose the best while you have fun. Take them out for coffee or something that won't cost much more than time.

[–]JakarrSlamson 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I give 3ish dates.

First date should be easy and less than an hour. Coffee or froyo. Figure out if they are a hoe or catfish and if their personality is passable. I usually schedule like a friday or saturday date and then try and squeeze in this easy predate during the week so they dont lose interest. Only light touching and hugs on date 1.

2nd date is the real deal. If you dont end up at least kissing or feeling her everywhere, then you should probably move on because your opportunity is gone. If sex doesn't happen, she may be waiting just a bit longer. I wouldn't necessarily say she's using you for resources yet.

If no sex by date 3, schedule dinner and a movie at hers or your place. Clear intentions and logistics. If she accepts you should be in the clear. If this date doesn't lead to anything, best move on.

[–]TopherOHoolihan[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Got it will keep in mind

[–]Ramesses_ 11 points12 points  (3 children)

But friend how will you ever know if she's playing wifey material but used to be a huge how? Maybe she fucked everything that moved and has realised that it never leads to commitment so now she's reformed and rewritten history and starts acting, coy, innocent, hard to get and like she's only been with one or two guys, always long term boyfriends. Women are masters of self deception. She'll talk herself into it to the degree she believes it and you won't ever know.

Next even if you do snag a virgin she could have an inner whore just waiting for her chance to thot it up.

In this day and age there is just no way to guarantee yourself a good girl. That's why the other guys suggest spinning plates and moving into something more serious with the best of the bunch after a good 6 months.

One good woman for one good man is just not realistic anymore I'm afraid.

[–]mrexperimenter -1 points0 points  (2 children)

Is it best to not get married then? What's the point of the marriage these days? I have no clue.

[–]RealisticKiwi 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You get a lot of tax benefits for being married and having children in Hungary. Basically women can stay home with children and the dad will get them tax benefits.

Also not many women will give you children in most countries without being married

[–]holyshocker -1 points0 points  (0 children)

To give up half your shit and let the woman know she finally has your full commitment so she can no longer feel the need to pursue it.

[–]mismm 4 points5 points  (2 children)

So how do i know if a girl is holding out on sex because she’s wife material (virgin or at least very conservative) or if it’s because she just basically wants me to be her beta bucks while some other dude in the past (or currently) she let smash right away?

You talk to her, find out about her views on sex and relationships. Keep in mind it's hard to get the full truth out of them. If she's had a one night stand but is otherwise a relationshipy type of girl, she'll never tell you.

Maybe once you're dating you can get her a bit drunk and act like you are the most open minded guy in the world, maybe you can get her to spill the beans.

You can at best make an educated guess based on what you've observed her views on sex and relationships are, her upbringing, who she keeps as friends, and so on.

[–]xddm2653 1 point2 points  (0 children)

lol. "20 questions babe?"

"Oh I'm so wasted!"

"How many guys have you fucked, total?"

"Oh wow. Let's see, there was Dave, Steve, Chad...that guy with the mohawk...the football player"


"And that was just in high school!"

[–]ValorElite -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Honestly. Vetting gets easier as you get older. You know what to look for, what to take notice etc.

[–]Shaney96 4 points5 points  (0 children)

If she wants your dick, she'll make - most likely somewhat overt - indications of such interest, and it's then your job to escalate and fuck. Don't rationalize her lack of putting out by 'oh, she probably is conservative' because guess what: she'll be getting rammed by other guys. Maybe she is a virgin and is apprehensive, but her natural hypergamous nature will help her make her natural intentions obvious.

[–]Endorsed ContributorNightwingTRP 5 points6 points  (3 children)

There isn't a happy medium. All women are hoes, it just depends if they're put in the position to act like one. That wife who you think is excellent wife-material and appears conservative etc... took it up the ass pretty hard on the first date once.

Also, being "wife material" is more than being a virgin. Your mind is in no place to be considering an LTR. Go spin plates for a bit and next time you consider this (at least a couple of years from now) make sure you're able to say you've slept with double digits number of women and are going to go away and do your fucking reading on LTRs.

[–]TopherOHoolihan[S] -3 points-2 points  (2 children)

Okay thanks. Where can i read about LTRs?

[–]Endorsed ContributorNightwingTRP 1 point2 points  (1 child)

First: Stop asking to be spoon-fed. You're supposed to be a man. Start acting like one and solve your own problems. I'm not the reddit search engine.

Second: If you used your brain, you'd realise ECs and mods had already addressed this problem of "where do I go for X" with X being something common.

Third: Did you even read my comment? You don't need any of that reading for at least a couple of years.

[–]TopherOHoolihan[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Got it

[–]Cloudsurf89 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I used to be friends with a girl who used to 'play the virgin' with different guys - apparently this is extremely common.

Why are you pedestalising virgins anyway? This is oneitis waiting to happen. Also whether she is a virgin or not, if you kick off your interaction by holding her 'virtue' in such high regard, she will pick up and play on it.

Be high value, be sexual, invite her into your frame, escalate and close

[–]PR0JECT_XIII 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Pretty much from the Rational Male. After three dates, and she ain't fucking you (given you have escalated) focus on someone else.

From there I would focus on keeping the frame on your side.

Push and pull isn't just about getting her keen in a date. It's on going.if you haven't read the rational male if recommend it.

[–]elzafir 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Smh this sub is full of blue pillers.

[–]TopherOHoolihan[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)


[–]FrankVillain 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You don't spend money on them, you gratify them with your time. And some dick.

[–]calvicius 1 point2 points  (8 children)

Don't think like this. Over time you'll find a woman you like and you will think "I want to marry this woman". You will know when it's time.

[–]TopherOHoolihan[S] 0 points1 point  (7 children)

But if im booting every girl who doesnt sleep with me by date 3, then what if i accidentally boot the future wifey o

[–]calvicius 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Soft next them only. In the future try to date them again. I think you will find out by yourself this wife thing

[–]omega_dawg93 1 point2 points  (1 child)

stop worrying about having a wife so much when you don't even know how pussy smells yet.

baby steps.

[–]TopherOHoolihan[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Lmao fair

[–]calvicius -1 points0 points  (3 children)

Soft next them only. In the future try to date them again. I think you will find out by yourself this wife thing

[–]TopherOHoolihan[S] -2 points-1 points  (2 children)

Good advice thank you. Wow thats actually smart af holy shit. How retarded am i for not thinking of a soft next. Keep the wifey materials in orbit until you’re done banging slus.

[–]calvicius -2 points-1 points  (1 child)

Yes. Orbit them, than, when you want to date them again, ask them for it. If they don't want, it's over, ; if they want, you're good.

[–]TopherOHoolihan[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Got it

[–]mrpoopistan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think you're waaaay too worried about Step 10 when it appears you haven't even gotten through Step 1.

And obsessing about virgins is a little on the 9/11 hijacker and Mike Pence side of things.

[–]omega_dawg93 0 points1 point  (5 children)


the longer she waits, the better girl she is, right... making her wifey material with her virginity being the best gift she can give her hubby, right?

hellooooooo... life doesn't follow the disney channel.

the girl you're speaking about will fuck, blow, and take cock up da ass from chad in an alley after meeting him for 30 min at a bar... or right out of church.

you have a LOT to learn about women.

[–]TopherOHoolihan[S] 1 point2 points  (4 children)

honestly i know a lot of this stuff but in moments of weakness i revert to my old emotional, idealism thinking. you are right my man. Although one point i would hold on to is that a women’s body is the biggest gift she gives to a man.

[–]omega_dawg93 -1 points0 points  (3 children)

if she doesn't take care of that body & eats her way to bbw, it will literally be the "biggest gift" she has to offer.

[–]TopherOHoolihan[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

lol clever. I meant her ability to incubate your children

[–]omega_dawg93 1 point2 points  (1 child)

i wouldn't call what is a natural ability to her, a gift from her. i would call the willingness to commit and have the children... and be a good mother to the children her gift. after all it is her body and under her control.

all guys are not dead beat dads... all women are not good mothers. finding a woman that was raised by a good man (read: her hypergamy is toned down bc dad set a good example), that wants kids is a good find.

[–]TopherOHoolihan[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I guess I’m overvaluing the female body then? When you say a good dad, do you mean one that promoted saving herself for a responsible man and quelled her from banging a bunch of dudes when she was young?

[–]Khiv_ -1 points0 points  (0 children)

No woman is wife material.

Also what makes you think a virgin would be "wife material"? Maybe she is staying virgin because of some religious or cultural conviction, while deep down she craves for the cocks of any men she talks to.

[–]zop2 -1 points0 points  (2 children)

Why do you want to get married?

[–]TopherOHoolihan[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

For the purposes of raising a family. I dont believe in “love”

[–]Cgbgjr 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What you have in front of you is a mine field. You don't know anything about mines except that they can kill you. You need a lot of information before you make one more move--it is called the sidebar.