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How can sex significantly boost testosterone levels, but masturbation takes ~1 week to see only a 145% increase? (self.asktrp)

submitted by mr_nate_

(3/14)

This just doesn't make sense to me, but I know it's true. After going ~1 week (sometimes only several days) without ejaculating via masturbation, I can feel the physical difference. I feel more powerful, energetic, boisterous, my posture improves, I say whatever I want, and I chase girls persistently. And the opposite is true, after succumbing to masturbation, I feel lazy for a few days and don't have the same drive to talk to girls.

But how can a sexual orgasm actually BOOST T-levels? Of course sexual ejaculation is better, otherwise every guy would curl into a mossy cave, grow a neckbeard, and feed their fat gut. But how is this climax fundamentally different than masturbation to the point where it actually stimulates T-levels?


EDIT (3/15):

It doesn't look like we've come to a firm conclusion yet. There's a lot of shitty/disagreeable information floating around (at least according to the bit of research The Google gave me) and this expected, a bunch of new boys shit posting on asktrp.

But so far:

  • some are saying the lack of drive to chase girls is more PSYCHOLOGICAL than PHYSIOLOGICAL (physical)

  • involves more than simply testosterone — hormones such as dopamine, oxytocin, & prolactin

  • that an increase in drive/testosterone does not require sex, it can be stimulated by simply being PHYSICAL with a girl (which I would agree with in terms of my personal experience, it drives me to go further)

  • sex is more physically exhausting, and we know working out bumps up our T-levels — is there a correlation/causation?

But I don't think we've reached a firm conclusion. Which makes sense! What company is going to support this kind of research?


[–]GainzdalfTheWhey 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Need to add 10x100 strokes to my routine

[–]Lofibasking 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Recall reading about how during intercourse and orgasm the male and female bodies are releasing chemicals which are absorbed by the partner.

Also, simply being physically around an attractive girl boosts testosterone (or was it another chemical?)

The point is there is a lot more happening biologically when you are with another person whether it's sexual or not. So, of course being sexual with a partner has additional benefits than you being by yourself.

(Testosterone, dopamine, norepinephrine, and oxytocin are the only names I remember. Researching them may lead you to more detailed answers)

[–][deleted]  (3 children)

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      [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      It's the "cuddle" or "bonding" hormone. Women typically have more than men, same as with estrogen, which is also created naturally in the male body.

      [–]MeatCurtainRod 6 points7 points  (12 children)

      You are talking about two different things here, and there is no correlation between them. Yes, orgasm can boot t-levels. Yes, sex is more significant over masturbation. But there is no variable that connects the two together indicating that masturbation is not helping your t-levels. Both work, end of story.

      Humans are social creatures. It doesn't matter if you are intro or extro. Humans need human contact. Everything is better with human contact. Interacting sexually with a hot girl can boost t-levels more than masturbation - did you know that? But like all pairbonds, benefits come with risk like a double edged sword.

      [–]attemptist 5 points6 points  (3 children)

      "Both work, end of story."

      The very reason he's confused and asking is because NOT masturbating boosts test, while orgasming with a woman boosts it. It's not that one is more significant than the other, they work in completely opposite directions.

      [–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (2 children)

      not masturbating barely boosts test, and only for a short time. most of what you read on nofap is complete bullshit

      [–]attemptist 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      Yeah, I know it peaks after seven days and then drops, but the question is still an interesting one -- why does the same physical process of orgasm have different physiological consequences based on context?

      [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      because, like you said, its physiological not physical

      [–]mr_nate_[S] 2 points3 points  (7 children)

      Interacting sexually with a hot girl can boost t-levels more than masturbation - did you know that?

      And I have noticed that. It's like a snowball effect in a sense. The more girls I'm with the more amped I am for days on end.

      But most people here at TRP don't condone masturbation because A) it's a fucking waste of your time and energy and B) everyone says the real thing helps you a lot more in terms of t-levels. But what actually causes that.

      [–]RojoEscarlata 5 points6 points  (6 children)

      Being physically with a woman is much more physically and psychologically rewarding, than just your hand and a monitor

      [–]captainzoomer 2 points3 points  (2 children)

      I read somewhere that chopping wood increases testosterone levels dramatically. Maybe the physicality of sex is akin to chopping wood?

      [–]RojoEscarlata 7 points8 points  (1 child)

      Exercise by itself increase testosterone, yes.

      [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      When I started working out and losing weight, my testosterone skyrocketed. I play in a co-ed softball league, and became a lot more competitive. I also found myself more willing to hit on women and "show-off."

      I felt like a man for the first time in years, and I'm never going back to feeling fat ever again

      [–]mr_nate_[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

      Yeah, that literally what I said. But how does that boost T-levels

      [–]third-eye-brown 2 points3 points  (1 child)

      much more physically and psychologically rewarding

      [–]RojoEscarlata 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Thank you

      [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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      [–]mr_nate_[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Not as significant as the product of sex with a woman.

      [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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      [–]mr_nate_[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      MMM, you can always leave it to Rollo Tomassi to put it into coherent words.

      [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      Fuck a girl you aren't really attracted to. Ill end up feeling sorta like shit/slightly "lower" than normal. Earlier this week I said fuck it and went for one and barely could maintain a boner.

      Rough sex with an attractive girl today? I feel like a goddamn king.

      90 percent of your feeling and the chemicals surrounding it are all in your head. It's all about how you perceive the encounter and whether the encounter makes you feel better about yourself or you feel you have accomplished something. There is no direct correlation between sexiness and chemicals, but there is a correlation between your perception of the girls and chemicals. Hot girls increase your self perceived status and therefore increase your willingness to be higher status (more ambition, more lust).

      [–]mr_nate_[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Best reply of the entire thread.

      [–][deleted]  (6 children)

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        [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

        I don't know if this counts, but:

        http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3810986/

        [–]HedoNNN 8 points9 points  (0 children)

        Social experiments with primates found that alpha monkeys have sex and never masturbate

        I'm Googling it to check. Any sources on this please?

        [–]jnsu_ 0 points1 point  (1 child)

        Is there a difference between fucking a pillow/doll and just masterbating? since you're completing the actual act. Is it just the movements of sex making the difference between fapping and sex that decides if ur test increases or decreases? I say this cause after I fuck a pillow just like I would smash I feel the same if not better sides from sex

        [–]holzpuppet 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        There is additional hormones involved in sex with a partner which are transferred by air, I think it's called androsterone. It increases your testosterone level as well. That's the hot girl sex hormone thing

        [–]Werewolf35b 1 point2 points  (1 child)

        Sex is hard physical work. That's what's boosting your T levels. Masturbation is just slightly wiggling your hand. No T benefit.

        [–]mr_nate_[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Now we're getting somewhere. It's more physical, and exercise increases T-levels

        [–]Cloud1995 -1 points0 points  (9 children)

        After going ~1 week (sometimes only several days) without ejaculating via masturbation, I can feel the physical difference. I feel more powerful, energetic, boisterous, my posture improves,

        Sorry, but this is bullshit. It's all about your own mindset.

        [–]mr_nate_[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        LOL, take it or leave it, but I know how I game women, and I just don't feel like it after masturbation. Maybe it's not T levels and something else, but it's real.

        [–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (7 children)

        No way. If you cut yourself off from masturbation you'll start checking out girls in public waaay more. It totally increases your sex drive and your motivation to actually get laid. That's why coming home from work every night and watching internet porn til orgasm is a really bad habit.

        [–]Cloud1995 3 points4 points  (4 children)

        Yeah your sex drive increases, you get overmotivated and you get fucking NEEDY, because you would fuck anything that crosses your way. It's counterproductiv not to masturbate.

        [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

        Everything in moderation. Never doing it is stupid especially if you aren't currently getting laid, but doing it every day isn't going to help you either.

        [–]mr_nate_[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        This.

        [–]mr_nate_[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        If a little boy's getting NEEDY for sex it's because he's a thirsty little boy, but don't start condoning masturbation. It's false & temporary satisfaction and it's part of the reason so many young men are sexually frustrated in current society.

        [–]the-tominator 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Exactly!

        I would have thought guys here would know that the main problem for guys getting laid is being too desperate/thirsty. I know it's paradoxical, but I think it's quite true.

        Now, if you have almost no sex drive, you're not going to get laid because you aren't going to try, because you don't care. And that's fine, not everyone is that bothered about sex to be honest. But I'm going to presume that the objective is to get laid more, because that's what most people seem to be focusing on with this.

        But the opposite, a supercharged sex drive, is not going to be helpful either to that goal. It's well-known fact here that girls don't like guys who are desperate/needy/thirsty - end of. If you avoid any sexual release except for hookups, you're going to get fucking horny as fuck. You're going to get more awkward around women, because the physical effect they have on you (sympathetic nervous system activation, basically increased heart rate, sweating, flushing etc) will be dramatically increased.

        And there's the thing about awkwardness with women and what causes it - thirst causes it. Being overly/extremely horny activates an autonomic response similar to the fear response. That is NOT a good thing, it doesn't make you look manly - calmness, quiet confidence, self-control, generally not giving too much of a fuck - those are the things that make you look more what girls call "confident" IME.

        So I would say that both extremes are bad, if your goal is to get more sex. Don't wank too much (more than once a day IMO), but don't not wank enough (less than once every few days IMO). You want to be calm, cool and confident when you chat up a woman after all. You need to not care too much what the outcome is either, only care enough to motivate you but not more. That's IME what makes for improved attractiveness as a man (besides physical stuff and being interesting). I thought that was what most/all RP guys thought so I was surprised to see people advocating turning yourself into a thirsty foaming-at-the-mouth pussy-worshipper by never getting your own release when you need it.

        "Everything in moderation" and "too much of anything is poison" are very true here, as ever. Great 'golden rules' for life IMO. Feeling good is about balance and homeostasis.


        And, on a weird side-note, I find that the more often I wank, the higher my sex drive gets. Wanking only reduces it for a few hours, then it's back. If I don't wank for a few days, I actually don't care that much anymore. And this is coming from someone who used to be literally addicted to masturbating and did it once a day at the very least, for years. I find this really weird, maybe it does lend credence to the idea that masturbating does increase your testosterone, or some other hormone that makes you more horny, after the refractory period is over of course.

        [–]menial_optimist -1 points0 points  (1 child)

        Jerk off for 1 week. At the start of the next week, have your doctor send you for t-level test. From that day until the start of the following week do not jerk off. Then the following monday after the initial test have another test.

        Make sure not to change your lifestyle habits too much during this week. Sleep, lift & eat the same as you normally would.

        [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        There are other factors it's not just a testosterone thing

        [–]akasomeoneelse 0 points1 point  (3 children)

        Napoleon Hill wrote the book "Think and Grow Rich" and the "Laws of Success". One entire chapter/law was devoted to the power of sexual transmutation.

        Written in the 1920's it never explained exactly what that meant, but most people take it to mean don't waste all your energy masturbating, or constantly going after women. Use that drive to improve yourself/finances etc..

        [–]mr_nate_[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

        Agreed. And it's something we encourage here at TRP. Masturbation is only false satisfaction and leads to sexual frustration.

        Now that we know that we know this — let's find the causes.

        [–]akasomeoneelse 0 points1 point  (1 child)

        The causes of what? What causes masturbation, or what causes the rise in T?

        [–]mr_nate_[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        At this point, it's not even about a rise in testosterone. Rather, what causes the increase/decrease in sex drive physiologically speaking (what spurs the select combination of hormones)? There have been several good points in the thread, but none that have any real roots in biology.

        [–]spacecase89 0 points1 point  (2 children)

        If you have sex, your brain will try to seek that dopamine again, so you will have drive to chase women.

        [–]mr_nate_[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

        What makes this more significant than masturbation

        [–]spacecase89 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        I'm just saying you'll have more drive because your brain has equated game with dopamine. After masturbating, your brain has not equated effort with dopamine, so you won't feel any drive.

        [–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

        Oh, look, it's this bullshit again. Just take some fucking dbol or something and stop whining.

        [–][deleted]  (1 child)

        [deleted]

        [–]mr_nate_[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        I understand where you're coming from, and we've gone over the negative effects of porn here before, but the last time I did it was without it (4 days ago) and I'm just now feeling the extraordinary drive to chase chicks again.