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FIELD REPORTFrom Plate to Wife (self.RedPillWomen)

submitted by girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor

Every time a woman asks for advice on how to go from FWB to commitment, we tell her “You are a plate, he isn’t interested, move on and date with intent.” It’s not bad advice. It’s safe. It’s mostly effective and if we are being time conscious, it’s quick.

If anyone deviates from the party line, we yell “Blue Pill” or “Plate School”.

I’ve never in my life dated with intent and I didn’t start doing it with the man who became my husband. Each relationship is different but I think we miss something when we jump to advising women in every case to bail.

As someone who went from “plate” to wife I want to share the broad strokes of my early relationship. Don’t take this as advice, my situation may be different from yours, you are not me and your man is not my man. Do take it as an indication that there is no one way to lock down a man. Take all the tools in the toolbox and find yourself the best you can manage with whatever amount of tolerance for risk you can muster.


Meet Cute

My Gay BFF (hereafter Patrick) and I had a standing dinner each week. We’d get together and cook something fabulous while drinking an unhealthy amount of wine. One week he asked if he could bring a friend (hereafter Hank for his love of Ayn Rand) from college over and that I would like him.

Now, Patrick has terrible taste in men so his stamp of approval on Hank meant that my future husband started out with negative standing as far as I was concerned. Patrick further muddied our first meeting by being a hot mess and drawing my ire.

When the boys finally made it to my apartment, I was knee deep in a confusing recipe (thanks Patrick!) and not ready to think sexy thoughts about anyone.

Then the two of them stood in the middle of my kitchen and took their shirts off to compare abs. Let’s just say, I noticed. Hank, noticed me noticing, gave me a devilish grin and said “We should have sex, it would be really great”.

My brain yelled at me “He’s a player, not a long-term prospect and no good can come of this” and I politely declined (I might have laughed).

From that week on, Hank joined Patrick and I for dinner once a week. We became friends. Over the year I learned (let’s call it inadvertent vetting): he was not a dirty commie (this was most of Patrick’s circle at the time), he was completing his engineering degree, and he could hold a conversation. I also learned that he was rarely without a girl but as far as I could tell there was no overlap.

Every once in a while, he reminded me that if I slept with him, it would be very good.

He talked about the women he was seeing and brought over at least one girlfriend. My girl game kicked in that night, and I was dazzling and a lot of fun. His girlfriend was a wet noodle in comparison. We had a few moments here and there – most notably in a gay karaoke bar -- but I wanted a friend not a hook up.

Until the day I didn’t

Removing Patrick

Patrick and I had our annual falling out and our weekly dinners went on hiatus. Hank, for reasons of his own, decided to repair our friendship. He called me up on a night we normally had dinner and told me we were going for a ride and to dress cute. I responded in a typical giddy, submissive girl way which is to say I giggled, threw on my leather pants and complied.

He pulled up after work on his motorcycle (which I had never ridden) and we went for a drink in the nearby city. We also happened to find ourselves in Patrick’s neighborhood and some fences were mended.

The tingles were there – aided by a riding style that forced me to keep close to him. I also had all the information I had gathered from a year of friendship. I liked him. I thought he was a good guy. And so I tumbled into bed with him.

He was right, it was great.

I also still thought he was entertaining other women but I chose not to care. Over the next several months, we saw each other regularly. I cooked for him whenever he was around. I offered sex and friendship which he seemed to enjoy.

I kept my life going and didn’t look to him for my every bit of entertainment. Once I invited him over for sex, only to kick him out so I could go babysit. I had other things going on after all. He loved that I wanted him enough to sneak in sex and then go about my day.

Official and exclusive

After going out for dinner with my ex one night he sat me down for a talk. He was not seeing anyone else and if I was then he was ending things. My heart sang.

I couldn’t give him my virginity but I could give him a trust that I’d never granted another person. I took ecstasy with him one night, a thing I would never have done with anyone else. I was the girl who didn’t drink at frat parties or smoke pot with anyone. Drugs were anathema to me. He didn’t betray my trust, guided me through and made me feel truly loved and cared for.

We moved in.

I worried that he was using me for my apartment. I thought maybe he was still going to move to be with someone else when he graduated.

I baked and brought him treats while he worked the overnight shift. I gave up my dining room table to be a desk. I cleaned up after him and did the food shopping so he could juggle school and work.

We drove out to meet his father – a man that few of his friends had ever met. I was patient while he reconnected with Dad and game when they taught me how to shoot.

When his final year of school necessitated moving, I panicked. He told me “I’ve been making these plans with you in mind. I plan to have you in my life and this is the best move for both of us.”

There were bumps in the road and I certainly felt the stress of each friend getting engaged. Every time I got upset, I’d ask myself “do you want to be married or do you want to be with him?” My answer to myself was always with him.

We were married after six years together. We met when I was 23, started dating at 24 and married at 30.


There are a few points that are important. I knew his character. I knew from his attitude about past girlfriends that he wanted a relationship. He always indicated that we were progressing even when I didn’t feel that way.

I also took a big risk. If I wanted marriage & kids more than I wanted the man, then I could have gotten to 30 and had to break things off.

While I always tried to be the best girlfriend possible to Hank, I fell short often and we were not perfect by a long shot. What I thought a man wanted was inaccurate in a lot of cases and I fell into my mother’s bad habits not infrequently. This report is all the good stuff and I am an unreliable narrator. I can’t help but think we’d have married sooner than 6 years if I had discovered red pill ideas earlier in life.

And that’s all. That’s my story of going from a plate to a wife. It’s a stressful, emotional path to choose. I wouldn’t recommend it to my nieces and I’d tell anyone walking it to take care. You have to be your best, and bring your best to the table every day. You have to be sure the man is honorable, and the signs of commitment must be there.

If you want the man more than the marriage it might be worth the risk.


[–]MentORPHEUSTRP Endorsed 43 points44 points  (1 child)

I also had all the information I had gathered from a year of friendship.

This is one of the most important factors/variables in the equation and cannot be overstated. This was not an impulsive move based only on tingles. Finally acting upon the tingles was backed by a year of vetting while not under relationship pressure.

With that point properly emphasized, I'd consider this a Niece-worthy FR.

[–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I bolded the line at your suggestion.

As far as my nieces go - they are 2 so we'll have to see how responsible and self reflective they turn out to be as young ladies before I share :-)

[–]KittenLoves_Endorsed Contributor 19 points20 points  (12 children)

I think part of the reason this was a success was because you didn't go into this relationship thinking, "if I sleep with him, I will get him to commit!", which is where I think a lot of women who want to go from plate to something more are failing. They got themselves into that position because they thought they could naturally move up, but that kind of thing is hard to do, and isn't easily going to be done by what is essentially being disingenuous and playing games (sleeping with someone as a means of making them want to date you isn't being true to yourself and your desires).

If, however, a woman goes into a plate-situation being okay with being a plate, the possibility to move upwards, provided her girl game is well polished, is much more likely.

Why is this the case? Because -- and let me preface this by saying that obviously this will not work for everyone, and more "traditional" men may be more likely to fall into the trap of "if she has sex before commitment she is worthless", but frankly I don't think anyone who is open to having sex before commitment would want to be with that kind of person anyway -- you are not trying to bargain commitment with your body. Men aren't stupid, and trying to buy a relationship with sex not only often doesn't work (and I don't know why this idea seems to be so prevalent), it's also cheap and degrading to both parties.

Being able to say that yes, I'm willing to have sex with you, and yes, I am also, independently, a great girl who you would probably like to date *but I'm not going to force you into that, you can come to me if you want to, is coming into the situation in a position of power. No matter what the outcome is, both people are happy because both people are going to get what they want.

Furthermore, if you are his plate, then he should also be yours. In the vetting stage, looking for a potential partner? No one is owed exclusivity from the get-go. This doesn't mean "sleep with every man you go on a date with!", it does mean "go on multiple dates, don't get hung up on only one option, because not everything is going to work out". Do you only submit a resumé to one job? Hell no, not if you want to get hired. Don't treat dating differently.

On a somewhat more personal note, I think you and I have a tendency to like each others' posts and comments because we came/are coming from similar places. I'm not married (but I'm also probably about a decade younger than you, lol), but I did get into dating my boyfriend as a plate that was upgraded to more. I won't tell the whole story because I don't want to hijack your post with my own history :P but suffice it to say that he dropped his other plates after a week, without any request from me, and sought exclusivity shortly thereafter, because I was able to demonstrate that I would be a good girlfriend, without trying to push him into anything. And I didn't have to push him into anything because I was genuinely enjoying myself as "just a plate", and would have been fine no matter what the outcome was. (Though I am obviously very glad that this ended up as the outcome ;) )

[–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Yes to all of this!

Furthermore, if you are his plate, then he should also be yours.

I debated whether to even use the term 'plate' here. The TRP definition of a plate is simply a woman with whom you are having a non-exclusive sexual relationship. By that definition, nearly every relationship starts off as plate status and you work your way up. It's the sexual part that makes it tricky by RPW standards but I'll never believe that simply saying "You are my girlfriend, let's have sex now" means that you (the woman) are suddenly guaranteed relationship security.

Women can be so driven to lock down a man that they get tunnel vision when one comes into the picture. I agree that you keep your options open until you are both on the same page and then move forward together. That can be anything from continuing to date to just keeping an active social life that isn't centered around him.

I think you and I have a tendency to like each others' posts and comments because we came/are coming from similar places.

Yes, I think so too. And yes, I believe that I have ten years on you :-) ... I don't mind hijacking. Meandering discussions are some of the most interesting.

[–]star_angela[🍰] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

But suffice it to say that he dropped his other plates after a week, without any request from me, and sought exclusivity shortly thereafter.

You were hardly ever a "plate".

[–]Guywithgirlwithabike2 Stars 5 points6 points  (8 children)

"Furthermore, if you are his plate, then he should also be yours"

This is a dangerous line of thought, likely borne from drawing a false equivalency between men and women, and had girlwithabike taken that attitude with me she'd still be my Alpha widow. I can not advise against this attitude enough.

From a woman's point of view, it can be hard to distinguish between a player and a high value man at a first glance. I have never been a player. There were certainly times when multiple women were simultaneously seeking my attention, but it was not a situation I was seeking out - I was simply in high demand. Because it is usually the man doing the pursuing, the distinction between "player" and "high value" gets murky if women are pursuing said man.

This conundrum does not come up for men; the distinction between "high value woman" and "slut" is blatantly obvious. Had girlwithabike been "spinning plates" and treated me as one of them, I would have slept with her a few times and moved on.

[–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor[S] 6 points7 points  (7 children)

she'd still be my Alpha widow

Oh you think you are just that good do you ;-) I have to stop building up your ego so much, you are going to become insufferable.

[–]Guywithgirlwithabike2 Stars 5 points6 points  (6 children)

You wouldn't be my only Alpha widow, and you know damn well there are others out there.

[–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor[S] 7 points8 points  (5 children)

I know, they keep trying to make friends with me :-/

[–]HB3234 7 points8 points  (4 children)

Get a room, you two!!!! :p

[–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor[S] -1 points0 points  (3 children)

:-D

[–]peacocktoast 0 points1 point  (2 children)

OP, it seems like there's a fair amount of disagreement over the logistics of what happened between you and your husband in the early stages of your romantic relationship. Honestly, do you think he's wrong in his rebuttals? Or do you think the truth is somewhere in between what both of you have said?

[–]Guywithgirlwithabike2 Stars 3 points4 points  (1 child)

That's your mistaken perception from the playful repartee we regularly engage in. My wife and I are always in agreement. We fit together more perfectly than the stone walls of Machu Picchu.

[–]peacocktoast 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh, good to know. Seemed a little angsty, based on the raw text.

[–]nevomintoarce 0 points1 point  (0 children)

and I don't know why this idea seems to be so prevalent

Perhaps it comes from a time when the culture/society/family forced a man to marry a woman if he had already slept with her. You know, to save her honor...or something.

My uncle's first wife got pregnant by him intentionally because he was from a good family and an engineering student and knew he would have to marry her.

[–]star_angela[🍰] 12 points13 points  (1 child)

This was a nice read and much needed when the first thing woman are adviced is to RUN far away from the Dude if they want to convert from a plate to a wify. You story is seriously not everyone's cup of tea. Infact, very very few woman can gulp this cup of tea. This isnt really for the faint hearted! I think I will literally die of the emotional roller coaster if I put myself in this situation.

The reason why woman are asked to bail is because your story is not the norm, it's rather an exception to the rule! Woman are asked to move on because isn't this how a Male brain functions? There are thousands of article surfacing around how if a Man puts u in the pusssy box, u can never get into the wify box.

Edit - some deletion !

[–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This isnt really for the faint hearted! I think I will literally die of the emotional roller coaster if I put myself in this situation.

From the point where he told me he wasn't seeing anyone onward, we had all the normal volatility of a developing relationship. Then, when friends were getting engaged or married, I would get sad. It wasn't his fault, but I also couldn't stop myself from feeling down.

Contrasted with my ex who did talk about marriage, it was a lot calmer. In spite of the marriage talk the ex wasn't the right man and if I had held out for him, we'd certainly be divorced now.

For me it was worth it for the right man.

Woman are asked to move on because isn't this how a Male brain functions?

I think that more men want to be settled down with the right woman than what RP admits to. But I'm curious what you are referring to here.

[–]RubyWooToo3 Stars 6 points7 points  (3 children)

So many male lurkers are going to read this post, try to mimic Hank (“hey baby look at my abs!”) and fail spectacularly.

[–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Well the magic formula was abs + gay karaoke. They'd have to do both :-P

[–]Guywithgirlwithabike2 Stars 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Which would be a terrible idea, since it didn't even work for me.

I probably tried a dozen different angles with... I guess we're calling her Dagny here... before I found something that worked.

[–]RubyWooToo3 Stars 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Just because she didn’t jump in bed with you immediately doesn’t mean it didn’t work. :-)

[–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor 11 points12 points  (4 children)

Your story is very heartwarming and fun, but as you said, you wouldn't recommend it as a strategy.

There are several reasons why it worked in your case.

  • While you were a plate, you weren't striving to upgrade.

  • You chose being with him - even as a plate - over marriage with someone else.

  • Marriage and children weren't your purpose in life. Therefore, you didn't have a ticking clock frantic attitude.

Your story beautifully displays a case of being an exception to the rule. Your story could have gone in so many other directions. That's why it isn't a good strategy for most people.

Thank you for sharing.

[–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor[S] 9 points10 points  (3 children)

You chose being with him - even as a plate - over marriage with someone else.

This is the only part that I'd like women to take away. There is always a timeline, and if either of us had wanted kids at the time, then ours would have had to change. That isn't to be discounted.

BUT

I think that if we asked ourselves "man or marriage" a little more often, then we might have marriages that are a little more stable and intentional. For all the talk of why marriages fail, everyone knows someone who has rushed to down the aisle to have the marriage and the man feels almost secondary.

[–]loneliness-incEndorsed Contributor 4 points5 points  (2 children)

I think that if we asked ourselves "man or marriage" a little more often, then we might have marriages that are a little more stable and intentional. For all the talk of why marriages fail, everyone knows someone who has rushed to down the aisle to have the marriage and the man feels almost secondary.

Unfortunately, the man is very often just an afterthought in the fairy tale wedding of a little girls dreams. Then she wakes up after the honeymoon and isn't haaaaaaaaappy and that's when all the trouble begins. I've seen this saga play out enough times to know that it isn't a one off thing that just happened to this couple or that one.

I think in general, man or marriage is an excellent question to ask all the time. Is this the hill I want to die on? Do I really need to fight over that? Do I really need to criticize because of this?

[–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor[S] 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Is this the hill I want to die on? Do I really need to fight over that? Do I really need to criticize because of this?

Also: am I willing to leave over this?

[–]8xin1nite 4 points5 points  (0 children)

"want the man more than the marriage" is brilliant , that's the way to get the man for good.

[–][deleted]  (6 children)

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[–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor[S] 6 points7 points  (4 children)

A key part is what you consider the definition of "plate". From the TRP sidebar:

Plate - Woman with whom you are in a non-exclusive sexual relationship with. Spinning plates is the act of having multiple plates simultaneously.

I'd submit that unless you are coming from a religious perspective relationships do not start with the assumption of sexual exclusivity. This is called dating.

If the term plate doesn't sit well, then FWB -- it may not be an ideal way to start a relationship but women come to us from that situation occasionally. RPW is about working with what you have to work with. Women stumble on it at all different relationships statuses so there can't be one clear pathway.

As I said to u/Whisper : I hedge about advising "move on and date with intent" because there are times when a woman has misjudged the relationship or the man will be unwilling to settle period (ie: red flags in a post). In some cases it may in fact be best to tell a woman to move on.

It depends on what you were looking for.

I believe that marriage was the ultimate gift and show of faith that my husband gave me. I would never call myself a Trad Con because I'm not even sure what that entails. Our marriage was a commitment between us to legally and permanently solidify our relationship. I wanted him to be my next of kin, not my parents. It wasn't a big party nor was it about kids.

Some men will never marry or settle long term for one woman. They should be avoided. Some seek out marriage and you can state from day one that you are both on that trajectory, they are the typical man RPW advises women to find. Some will settle down for a woman who brings enough to the relationships and no less. Those men are a gamble. For me it was worth the gamble.

[–][deleted]  (3 children)

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    [–]labratte1996 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    To be honest, I agree with you and have no idea why the "plate to wifey" strategy seems to be gaining more traction here :/

    [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Thank you. This is the first bit of real sanity in this thread. I was starting to think I'm crazy. Excellent comment.

    [–]purpleskygreensea 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    This is exactly my experience as well. When a man loves a woman, he will simply not risk it when she says she wants commitment! These plate-to-wifey stories have something in common...there was no request for commitment on the women's side. So if a woman is coming on here and saying she had the talk and he blew her off, it's not a good sign.

    [–]kam_rn 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    My relationship started out in a similar way but I wasn't aware of it at the time. I've always felt like I did something wrong in the beginning or like I was supposed to leave him when I found out the truth (that he was with other girls). Reading this post made me feel better, thank you.

    Do you think it's okay to clarify your relationship at some point? I've always wondered if I should have asked him about that.

    [–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    I've always felt like I did something wrong in the beginning or like I was supposed to leave him when I found out the truth

    Well I don't think there is anything wrong, but obviously others here disagree with me :-P

    It's quite easy to say that you have to date for commitment, and plenty of good men are just as focused on the traditional path as many women are. I didn't know when I started if my relationship would ever turn into anything serious and even once it was serious, I didn't know for sure that it would end in marriage. What I know now, is that I took the risk on the front end, but I'm not worried about divorce or disinterest on the back end.

    My husband doesn't have to play any weird active-dread games on me because I know he's attractive to other women. I experienced that in the year we were friends. I also don't feel like I was just the right girl at the right time because I know he had options. Developing the relationship the way we did really makes me feel like we are bonded and I have never felt the desire to "upgrade", nor do I compare him to others.

    Do you think it's okay to clarify your relationship at some point? I've always wondered if I should have asked him about that.

    I'd watch for signs that he's serious. If it goes for more than a couple months and you don't see signs that he's feeling attached to you or looking towards a future with you, then I'd consider clarifying. Some people make the argument that the talk is a bad idea because if he doesn't feel committed then talking about it won't magically make him feel that way. I agree with that but I think you should be getting signals from him. If it gets to the point where you feel compelled to discuss it, you need to also be ready to cut out if you don't get the answer you like.

    If you had said from date number 3 "I like you but I only want to be exclusive with you" ... do you think you'd be with him now? It's possible he'd have said yes and cut off the other girls, but you'd have had to be really special that early on for him to make that decision. He also could have lied or he could have ended things with you.

    Ultimately, I don't think it's worth stressing over the past if you are in a good situation in the present.

    [–]WhisperTRP Founder 7 points8 points  (4 children)

    Every time a woman asks for advice on how to go from FWB to commitment, we tell her “You are a plate, he isn’t interested, move on and date with intent.” It’s not bad advice.

    Yes, it is.

    She has already slept with him. The n-count is already increased. Moving on to a new man will increase it again, while turning this one into an LTR will not.

    Remember that, just as women like sex, despite having to gatekeep it, men like LTRs, despite having to gatekeep them. If he isn't promoting you on his own, then that means that you are better for him as a plate or FWB than an LTR, which means emotional investment in you is a net negative.

    We all know that one thirty- or forty-something woman who is alone after a decade or two dumping men "because they wouldn't commit".

    Commitment is your responsibility, not his. It's sometimes good to walk away from a mountain that you think is to steep for you to climb.

    But if you never take a risk, you auto-fail.

    [–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    Yes, it is. She has already slept with him. The n-count is already increased. Moving on to a new man will increase it again, while turning this one into an LTR will not.

    Fair enough. I hedge because there are some OPs who have red flags all over their posts. In general, I think it's best to try something before giving up on a relationship. Sperm may be cheap but men are not a renewable resource.

    We all know that one thirty- or forty-something woman who is alone after a decade or two dumping men "because they wouldn't commit".

    I know two off the top of my head.

    [–][deleted]  (2 children)

    [removed]

      [–]CrazyHorseInvincibleModerator[M] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      Your mod notes say "21 year old know-it-all newbie".

      Think about that for a bit.

      [–]freew33zy 4 points5 points  (0 children)

      Chiming in here: (and I know you're not supposed to point out your gender on these subs but hopefully it fits in this context so I'm not neg'd, lol)

      Though she's not a wife, my current LTR began as a plate. Two year LTR. The reason it worked for her? I was high value and she was not high value, a.k.a. I would not have been interested in her if she tried for commitment first; however, I was only recently high value (beta in HS, lifted, developed game) so I had a soft spot for her because her face was very pretty and I sensed she could improve (chubby).

      Well, I met her at the end of my freshman year of college; before we split for the summer, I made a remark that she'd probably be extremely attractive if she were thinner and that, based on old pics, she was exactly my type. (True story: in my beta days I had a crush on a chick that looks like her ugly sister for like a year. Weird.) It was a green flag when she handled my honesty well--I hate sugarcoating--and said she'd work on it.

      Anyways, she took the whole summer and lost like 30 pounds in 4 months. It was unbelievable. My predictions had been so true. More than that, she told me she did it for me--which felt pretty special. So, I kept plating her but it grew into an LTR within a couple months. In all, it took about 8 months and a lot of hard work to achieve it.

      And the irony? In my opinion, she's settling now. I really don't think my SMV is as high as hers if I'm being honest. I never let it show, but I know it.

      So, ultimately, her getting plated net resulted in a loss because she might have been able to find a better mate. Not that I'm bad by any means--she's just seriously hot as fuck. There's a reason I said my HS crush looks like her ugly sister.

      But it did get her an LTR... but even then, consider that I've plated over a dozen girls and this is the only one I chose. And I chose this one because she massively improved--I had no intentions to choose her originally. And she only had the ability to massively improve because her personality was already pretty good, and her genetic appearance was top notch.

      Moral of the story? Don't be a plate to get commitment... but that doesn't mean plates never get commitment, either.

      Edit: Also just read the post in full, that's cool you guys did molly together! Doing molly with an LTR is an absolutely amazing experience.

      [–]chickenfrommars 1 point2 points  (6 children)

      What is girl game and how does it different from being a normal, decent and social human being? It is a pretense you have to keep up? All this sounds so exhausting.

      [–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor[S] 8 points9 points  (3 children)

      I don't have pretenses with my husband, but I do continue to take care of myself and him, to behave in a flirty manner when it's appropriate, to tell him how awesome I think he is and to generally be the girl that he dated as well as being his wife.

      Here are older posts that might be interesting about girl game:

      Learning Girl Game from Lucifer's Daughters 1

      Learning Girl Game from Lucifer's Daughters 2

      [–]chickenfrommars 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      To me it sounds like simply being the best version of yourself but perhaps I'm missing the subtly here. Will check out the links, thanks.

      [–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

      I didn't mean it to imply anything complicated...same idea as being 'on your game'.

      [–]Guywithgirlwithabike2 Stars 10 points11 points  (1 child)

      "All this sounds so exhausting"

      You're absolutely right. You should get a studio apartment and a bunch of stray cats instead.

      [–]chickenfrommars 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      I knew I'd get sarcasm.

      I genuinely don't get the idea of 'game'. It sounds like potentially a facade rather than natural feminine behavior, which would be tiring to keep up, so I'm asking for clarification.

      Not sure why that's bothered you. I'm in a very long term, happy, traditional relationship and have never had a problem with men and commitment.

      [–]Ok_Philosopher 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      You know, we have the exact opposite experience: my husband and I were engaged after 4 months of first meeting and married 5 months thereafter. Nope, I wasn't knocked up. It was a little surprising because he never wanted to get married (much to his mother's dejection). I then moved to a different continent to be with him.

      If an OP were to come here and ask something like, "my guy just proposed engagement after just 4 months and wants to live in a new country where I can't work, what do I do?" I'd scoff and say "no, you need to continue vetting. It's far too risky to not just move in but move away for a guy you don't really know. You're in the honeymoon phase. Wait it out." And statistically, this is good advice.

      Likewise if someone here were to post your story and were in year 4 or 5 of this relationship, posting frustration over not being engaged... I'd advise, "girl, it's likely not going to happen. Cut your losses and move on to a guy who wants the same thing." And this is good advice: I know a few guys who dated women for years but ended things because they couldn't see themselves walking down the aisle. Even if these women were perfect RPW'ers and never nagged it was still just the right thing to do.

      Women can do as they wish. I've always said they know their relationship better than anyone else. We can only add a perspective (or solution) they've not considered. Or maybe they have and just need to hear others affirming/negating it.

      PS: Atlas was great, The Fountainhead was pretty good, but We the Living really sucked.

      [–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

      Women can do as they wish. I've always said they know their relationship better than anyone else. We can only add a perspective (or solution) they've not considered.

      This is my reason for throwing this out into the world. My feeling is usually that if you have to come ask for help, there is a problem. You were confident in your decision to marry in a short span so you didn't seek advice from internet strangers. Someone coming in asking for help has doubts and that is enough reason to lay out the potential problems in such a situation. Same case if someone was frustrated asking for advice several years into a relationship. Same case as when women come in saying "should I have a threesome" and probably a myriad of other questions where the answers (and pitfalls) are obvious to those of us reading.

      I tend to sit out advice that I feel hypocritical giving.

      But a lot of women go to TRP and get caught up in the jargon and then think they are "x". We see it with the alpha widows. So I think women come in sometimes freaked out that they are 'plates' simply because they didn't lay out the parameters of the relationship from day one. Technically, that would make them plates (if there are no specifications of exclusivity, because if you aren't official, you can't assume exclusivity) but the reality of the relationship looks different.

      I used the jargon here but the reality of the relationship was that a. he never had overlapping women and b. the exclusive terms of the relationship were set by him within a month or two (I'm fuzzy on the time line now). We were living together by 6 months so it wasn't that long. He was always behaving like a bf and things like the trip to meet his father are meant to indicate that there was an escalation of seriousness of the relationship over time.

      I hope the take away for women coming in and searching for information on 'plates' is that if she is comfortable and knows the risks, not every relationship starts the same and if the guy isn't acting like you are disposable then you can judge the man and relationship for yourself not based on some TRP definition.

      I'd encourage you to write your story for the same reason. Women can do everything right and still fail, but sometimes, you can go against the grain and it's the nuances and the decision to make it work that makes all the difference.

      Re PS: I read The Fountainhead first and Atlas second. I preferred The Fountainhead and to this day have not managed to slog through John Galt's speech at the end of Atlas. I've never read We the Living. I thought about calling him "John" because Galt is described as having copper and gold hair and my guy is a ginger - but I figured Hank stuck it out longer than anyone but Dagny as the world fell around him and that was a better metaphor for a married man on an RP sub :-P

      [–][deleted]  (3 children)

      [removed]

      [–]peculiarmiss 1 point2 points  (2 children)

      I read it as Hank loves Ayn Rand, but Patrick hung out with mostly dirty commies.

      [–]Guywithgirlwithabike2 Stars 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      I've been an Ayn Rand fan since high school, but I met Patrick at the commie-infested university I went to. Conservatives were few and far between, so I decided to make friends with ideologically-opposed people instead of being a hermit. It didn't hurt that he knew a bunch of easy liberal girls, though.

      Incidentally, I told Patrick back when we were 18 that he'd never convert me to Communism, and I didn't need to talk him into conservatism. I told him that one day gay marriage would be legalized, and that he would start paying taxes, and he would come around to my way of thinking. It took about 10 years to be proven right on that.

      Totally worth the wait.

      [–]jaytonbye 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Ah, that makes sense 😁👍