62
63

DISCUSSIONThe problem with being a housewife -spoiler: it's other people (rant) (self.RedPillWomen)

submitted by Supernatural_20

I got married last August, we decided (I've been thinking about it for a long time) that I would stay at home with the kids. I've gotten some strange feminist-ish push back. I thought they were all about "choice", but when I mentioned that it was my job to do the laundry and take care if the house, etc. to his sister he became the bad guy, within a conversation where I and her husband were siding together over things we have in common vs. our spouses (a brother and sister who have a lot in common, including their choice in their mates personalities). I don't mean that to sound adversarial, it was an overall pleasant conversation up until the moment that she completely switched sides. I am in full on housewife mode now and I feel some look down on that choice, I don't understand and feel like it is so much better than working $10/hr. restaurant jobs for the rest of my life. This is my job now and I wish people would lay off about it, and automatically assume he pushed me into doing everything at home while he gets to go off and work. Saying "gets to" like there's some sort of fun involved, is an awfully strange way of pointing out that he works hard at a back breaking job to provide support for our family. Yes, I work hard at home too, but he deserves to be doted on for his contribution, and I'm happy to do it.

Sorry for the rant, just found this sub and glad there's more people like me to have these sorts of (hopefully) rational conversations about this type of stuff.

TL;DR: What's up with people hatin' on housewives?


[–]RubyWooToo3 Stars 33 points34 points  (3 children)

Women who are housewives criticize women who work. Women who work criticize women who are housewives. Generally speaking, there's nothing that makes women feel better about themselves than looking down their noses at other women.

If there's a lesson for RPWs here, it's that if we're ever tempted to judge another woman for her lifestyle and choices, maybe we need to be more circumspect about our own.

[–]SirenOfScience 7 points8 points  (1 child)

I think you nailed it! I get yelled at by my family for choosing to pursue a STEM PhD despite being in a happy, stable marriage then get shamed at work for voicing that I would like to teach instead of doing high powered research so I could be involved with my family if I have kids. You honestly can't win so I try to make sure my man and I are happy and everyone else comes second. :)

[–]RubyWooToo3 Stars 7 points8 points  (0 children)

You honestly can't win so I try to make sure my man and I are happy and everyone else comes second. :)

Seriously. As long as man is happy and my children are healthy, I really don't care what the hens are clucking about.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Excellently conveyed.

[–]ManguZa1 Star 37 points38 points  (0 children)

Being a housewife mean that you respect and trust a man (maybe even love !).

While it's the common idea nowadays that men are bad chauvinist sexist pigs. Even the one you choose to be your husband.

[–]Astroviridae 47 points48 points  (0 children)

Feminists have taught a generation of women that femininity is bad and being a housewife is inferior to having a career. Ironically a movement centered around giving women the choice to live their lives as they please doesn't like when women choose to be traditional. There's a thriving trad community on Tumblr if you're interested.

[–]SouthernAthenaEndorsed Contributor 29 points30 points  (1 child)

I am convinced that the people who put down being a housewife do so to convince themselves it's a bad option, otherwise they may start to realize how dissatisfied they are with their situation.

[–]Supernatural_20[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Said sister-in-law absolutely hates her job but feels like she's trapped in it.

[–]MoDuReddit 19 points20 points  (0 children)

I thought they were all about "choice"

I think this was your problem. At this point in history, Feminism is a religion/policy you either adhere to, or will be shunned socially for some made up reason. Nobody cares about your happiness or choices, it's all political/religious.

PS: Also, I'd refer to the crabs-in-a-bucket, even if these people don't admit that they envy you.

[–]procrast1natrix 9 points10 points  (1 child)

I'm curious if you are in an urban or suburban setting, and what is the general educational level of those criticizing you? I'm starting to wonder if this is a socioeconomic thing. The cross section of married women around me (mothers of the kids my kids go to school with) are about one third SAH, and they get nothing but love for that. We all see and benefit from their extra efforts in the PTA and other community organizing. These are educated women with earning power, two are PhD, one a lawyer, one a published novelist. When they decide that these are years they choose to step away from paid work, towards focus on home making, they are celebrated and embraced, and in many ways envied. Households work better when there is the financial breathing room for there to be someone who puts significant time and effort into making it run well. It often takes bold and disciplined decisions to step away from earning money. I wonder if people are criticizing you because of their own internal economic stress?

[–]Supernatural_20[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

We're living in a suburban area right now. His family is generally well educated and have good income, his sister and her husband make a lot together, but she absolutely hates her job and feels trapped in it because of that fact. On the flip side, I grew up with a single mom who didn't go to college, she's had a lot of jobs over the years, but growing up I liked going to see my friends who's parents watched me and I grew up to be very independent.

He can support me with his work (car manufacturing), I insisted on having a job so I could feel like I contributed to the family, but all in all (being a college drop out myself) my paycheck would basically only cover the groceries for the week. I had some problems coming to this decision, probably because my mom worked her ass off, until she got remarried when I was in high school. I thought I had to make money to contribute, but I kept thinking about it and I figured that I shouldn't be tired all the time from waking uo at 6am and running around for 9 hours, and not want to spend time with my kids. Though it may be a different story if I were fufilled with any job I had.

We've even discussed him staying home if I could make a ton of dough using my applicable skills. Though there'd probably be a whole nother type of shitstorm over that as well, lol

[–][deleted]  (17 children)

[deleted]

[–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor 9 points10 points  (1 child)

A fellow student tells me how she would have gone "crazy" just staying home, and after a measly three months of maternity leave she was "so ready" to put her baby in daycare.

Look at women who say this to you and say "sometimes we have to sacrifice our own desires for the well-being of our children" and then walk away.

Every mother (with input from Dad) has to make her own decision about what is best for her children and her family. So I really don't want to judge women who decide to work. But I hate that people will jump down your throat for your choice about your life.

And let's be real, of all the reasons to split your time between childrearing and a career "I'd be bored taking care of my children" is the most selfish reason.

[–]BewareTheOldMan 2 points3 points  (2 children)

God forbid your child/children actually grow into productive and positive citizens by virtue of direct time and attention from their mother verses outsourcing childcare to a third-party.

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

[deleted]

    [–]BewareTheOldMan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    I can see from another's perspective how my statement is judgmental.

    First - I support your sentiments:

    Good mothers with careers or good SAHMs are all around us. Conversely - there are terrible mothers who either work or Stay at Home. No disagreement...as I have seen all four versions.

    Reality - I supported a family of five with a total net income (take-home) of about $60,000 and secured medical/dental, life insurance (whole/term life), and covered financial responsibilities for the entire household...all with a SAHM situation. I later earned thousands more, but tried to stay within a $60,000 budget over the years.

    So are women working out of necessity or because they want a higher-level lifestyle? Necessity is one thing, but is it Single Mother necessity because that seems like a divorce-related problem or never-married problem...which is a problem.

    I understand the support for working mothers, but where most families have trouble is when children are babies/toddlers - when kids need them the most. As they turn into pre-teens/teens a working mother makes more sense versus toddlers/small children.

    It seems many women are working because of lifestyle versus necessity. I am not a big fan of working mothers based on lifestyle preferences as it takes away from time with kids - especially if there is no financial reason to work.

    Also - men are judged ALL the time so I don't see my opinion as judgmental, but I accept the possibility that women see my view as such.

    [–]queenvalerie 0 points1 point  (9 children)

    I almost pursued nursing to do something similar to what you described! We have similar situations here, can you tell me about the whole last paragraph, The montessori thing?

    [–][deleted]  (8 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]Rivkariver2 Star 0 points1 point  (7 children)

      Just curious, why do you think your personality didn’t fit with nurses? I always thought about being a nurse in the back of my mind, but I too would want more time with family.

      [–][deleted]  (6 children)

      [deleted]

        [–]Rivkariver2 Star 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Wow, that is so hard. I have a caretaker nature and I am the type to be interested in how bodies work and healing illness, not get grossed out, but you have just confirmed why nursing would not be for me full time. I cried at my desk seeing my cat die, can’t imagine just walking it off for a human being. Sounds like there is a lot of politics etc. glad you found the right path.

        Also, I was just hospitalized and the nurses being kind really helped me, so basically I am grateful some were nice like you.

        [–]queenvalerie 1 point2 points  (1 child)

        This is gonna sound cheesy but the worst part of Grey's Anatomy was how Christina kept getting giggity and excited whenever patients would have to have major surgery, and how excited she would be when major accidents in town happened because she would get a chance at operating. It was super evil to me.

        [–][deleted]  (1 child)

        [deleted]

          [–]JJ33141 Star 0 points1 point  (1 child)

          I think it’s great that you realize there’s more to being a stay at home mom than simply having the child, and making sure it doesn’t die under your care. These women who criticize SOMs seem to think that’s all there is to it ... oh and listening to the kid scream of course. It’s a very shallow approach to parenting. I mean a woman with nothing invested in rearing her child can MAKE it that way. You can, however, approach it from the standpoint that you have the potential to help develop a young mind and educate them, and approach it with seriousness. There is also a profoundly satisfying opportunity for emotional bonding that in my experience largely compensates for the difficulties of dealing with children when they are collicky, or throwing tantrums. Of course this is much easier when you have a committed spouse to rationally divide up labor across working away from home, and working inside the home.

          [–]Zeldafan1023 9 points10 points  (0 children)

          "Yes it's so oppressive to be a housewife, and you have the right to choose, but only out of options WE give you."

                                       - Modern feminist 
          

          [–]queenvalerie 4 points5 points  (0 children)

          I feel like modern day feminism really detriments the family dynamic when it comes to this (obv). I know so many women who work all day while their husband's work too, and the children are hauled into daycare or left for the school to parent, which I think is absolutely crazy. There is so much less parenting and quality time in those relationships that I know harms the relationship between parent and child. My fiancee and I live together, and I don't work because I'm a full time college student. I took the semester off from work and I love just doing laundry and cooking pancakes and cookies all day, I love to present a clean, kempt house for my fiancee when he gets home, and personally if one day we hit it rich off a scratch off I would probably just raise babies and pick up a hobby, not using my degree, and that's my dream life. I'm in the career world, I'm getting a STEM degree, but I will never put that ahead of my relationship with my husband and children, and abandon the kempt-ness of my home, which unfortunately is the way things tend to go these days. I'm very passionate about this subject, and I hope you nothing but happiness in what you do, despite the BS flung your way. Some people just won't ever understand the fulfillment in what you do. There's a whole community online called SAHM about stay at home mom's building eachother up, I would group up with them for support.

          [–]PumpkinSubEndorsed Contributor 4 points5 points  (0 children)

          The push back can come from a place of concern because its a risk to put your financial well being into someone else's hands. Assuming you are not wealthy, there wouldn't be a way to protect yourself. However, thats worse case scenario and hopefully the woman would have vetted well enough where she isn't worried her man is going to drop her, cheat on her, etc and put her in a spot where she has to live like a pauper because she spent her life supporting her family non monetarily.

          Just stand up for yourself and demand resect for your choices or don't but this bitching over women this and women that is tired. As another poster said sometimes this comes off as a way to feel superior when sizing up another woman. This subject comes up a lot on this sub, so perhaps i'm just over it.

          You are in a place of privilege in this day and age. One working spouse to support a whole household is not in the cards for some families so congrats on being able to obtain it. Most people are probably jealous etc and some women can go crazy being at home all day. Different strokes.

          [–]chim_city 3 points4 points  (0 children)

          People will hate on you for being happy.

          Then they will make up excuses that best fits their narrative.

          [–]alpha-zach 1 point2 points  (4 children)

          My initial thought is to suggest you not care, but I think that’s a masculine quality. Women struggle with not caring about what others think because a feminine woman is often very agreeable and at peace with people around her.

          Possibly the best suggestion is to really focus on caring a lot more about what the person you deem most important, your husband, thinks.

          [–]Supernatural_20[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children)

          I have definately struggled with that. He always tells me that I shouldn't try to appease others and he'll support me with whatever I do. It's hard but I'm slowly getting over it.

          [–]alpha-zach 0 points1 point  (1 child)

          Maybe this resolution isn’t to not care, but to act like you don’t care.

          A big rp idea is to not give attention to people for acting out. So if you just ignore their attacks, they’ll believe it’s a waste of their breath and stop trying.

          I don’t know how well masculine rp tactics translate here, but a rp man would call this a shit test. The response always to ignore with silence or agree and amplify.

          So it’d look something like this.

          “Stop being a stay at home mom” “Ok thanks” “No seriously stop” “Yeah definitely” “You’re making me really angry. Stop!” “Ok.”

          Or agree and amplify would be “Stop being a stay at home mom” “You’re right I should. It’s the worst!” “Of course it is. You’re clearly miserable” “I am! Sometimes I just sit on the couch all day eating chocolate wishing I was busting my ass at a dead end job.”

          Either approach embraces the idea to smile and nod, then do whatever you were going to do in the first place.

          [–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          I don’t know how well masculine rp tactics translate here, but a rp man would call this a shit test. The response always to ignore with silence or agree and amplify.

          FWIW a former EC who has since gone away :-( told me that she absolutely uses the masculine tactics on difficult women when it's appropriate. She does it with her mother.

          I haven't had cause to try it out but she was wiser than I and had her RP theory down cold so I trust that she knew what she was talking about.

          [–]Rivkariver2 Star 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          I think a good lesson is that you don’t have to appease others, and it doesn’t mean you can’t get along. You can frankly say what you think and still be a friend.

          [–]snarkypirate 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          I never understand this - I work part-time, and therefore I am also more of a traditional "housewife" in most senses. It also helps that I teach, so my schedule is super flexible - but I know how hard my husband works, and I see my work around the house as my contribution to the household in addition to my part-time work. It's not fair at all that he should work all day and then come home and be expected to do a ton of stuff around the house. I do a lot of that stuff to show that I appreciate that he works hard enough (and is lucky to have a good enough position) that I don't need to work full time.

          Our house certainly isn't spotless (improving my housekeeping is an eternal goal), but I cook dinner and plan groceries and do laundry, etc. and generally it doesn't bother me at all. Thankfully, he also appreciates it and tells me often how glad he is that he doesn't have to worry about things like what we're having for dinner or if we're out of toilet paper :P

          I also wonder if identity is a big part of this - our culture is weird about motherhood. In some cases, it's lauded for mothers to be so involved and to focus so much on their families - but also I often feel like people don't really feel like you have a real identity if you don't have a career or something. But all of this is just rambling - for me, I would love to be able to eventually stay home full time and do more with all of the homemaking things that I enjoy, but I also know not every woman is like that. But if we're going to push the idea of women's choice, we need to support those choices even if they're not the ones that we would make.

          [–]Rivkariver2 Star 1 point2 points  (2 children)

          A woman at my work quit before her wedding because she didn’t feel invested and wanted to evaluate her life and focus on marriage. Women in the office made little smug, catty comments about “different” life choices. I thought she was smart honestly.

          [–]Supernatural_20[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

          Good for her, it is a hard decision too and it seems like some people think you're just quitting on life, when you're making a new, (albeit different) life than you had before.

          My former boss actuall tried to get me not to quit by telling me that us women have to stick together and it's much harder for us. I continued with my decision and she threw my husband's back injury (hes mostly better now) at me "what would happen if he couldn't work anymore?" I just wanted to tell her I wouldn't be able to support my family on $10/hr anyway.

          [–]BewareTheOldMan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          You: "I wouldn't be able to support my family on $10/hr anyway."

          In boss' head: "Ummmm - okay. Sorry I mentioned it...and made it about the amount of money you're getting paid."

          [–]Igotsfeelingstho 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          Im a stay at home spouse, but i do work from home part time. Even though i earn an income i still get a lot of negative comments from other women, claiming that I'm "too submissive" and should be "out there in the real world" just like him. The truth is I love the ability (and privilege) to be able to stay at home.

          My husband works hard labor, and is often gone for long hours. Staying home allows me to adjust to his schedule so we can have more time together. We do not have to neglect our relationship, and we are able to maintain a level of connection both spiritually and physically, which i believe are vital for a relationship. I'm also able to tend to our home without exhausting myself. The house is clean, meals are prepared, errands get done and it isn't stressful.

          My husband pays the majority of the bills and i do the majority of the housework, which is a nice balance that works for us. Plus, working from home gives me a decent level of financial independence. Still, i am often criticized for the dynamic we have. I think it is ridiculous, and even if i didnt work at all it shouldn't matter.

          We are very happy and content because we have prioritized our relationship. I can't help but think that those who criticize us are jealous or insecure with themselves. I mean, the sex life is amazing, we spend lots of time together whenever hes home from work, and I have the time and space to pour into my passions and femininity. I keep busy by gardening, creating art, volunteering, and occasionally taking classes at the community college in our town. I also attend yoga classes, which gives me a chance to socialize with other ladies often.

          You know, a saying that comes to mind is "other people's opinions of you are none of your business." I think its wise not to let others rob us of our happiness. Those who choose to pick apart their neighbors rather than focus on improving themselves can never be happy.

          [–]LateralThinker133 Stars 1 point2 points  (1 child)

          I've gotten some strange feminist-ish push back. I thought they were all about "choice", but when I mentioned that it was my job to do the laundry and take care if the house, etc. to his sister he became the bad guy

          Quite simply, Feminism is all about choice unless you make a choice that they don't approve of. That's also why the majority of feminists are sex-negative. They want your only choice to be that of being a victim. They claim that women are denied agency, but when you choose to do something like housewife or sex worker, they can't stand it.

          https://medium.com/@NikitaCcoulombe/why-feminism-wants-to-dismantle-the-family-long-4695d45bcf88

          Great article about it.

          [–]Supernatural_20[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          That is a good one thanks :)

          [–][deleted]  (1 child)

          [removed]

          [–]pearlsandstilettosModerator | Pearl[M] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

          Do not say “man here” “guy here” or any variation.

          There are updated male participation rules that every male user needs to know about and follow. From now on, men will be issued an automatic 2 day ban if they fail to follow the rules. It is cumbersome for moderators to repeat the same instruction throughout the day.

          [–]drops_of_Sunshine 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Honey, do your thing! In engaged and can't wait to be a house wife and have kids. I'm marrying a great guy who also deserves to be doted on. Ignore those that hate on it. I can promise you they are jealous.